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Legal Issues

by Mike Masnick

Mon, Mar 11th 2013 12:20pm

Filed Under:
brett gibbs, otis wright, subpoenas, withdrawal

Companies:
prenda, prenda law, verizon

Permalink.
Short link.

Verizon Steps In On Prenda Case; Says Brett Gibbs Never Informed Them Of Judge's Order Killing Subpoenas

from the oops dept

As the minutes tick off until the Prenda hearing today, yet another bit of news has dropped in relation to the case. Verizon has stepped in and filed a declaration stating that contrary to Brett Gibbs' own claims to the court, it does not appear Gibbs informed Verizon not to follow through and identify the people in the subpoena that had originally been sent.

To understand what happened here, the key aspect to many Prenda cases is getting the identity of people associated with IP addresses, often by getting a court to grant discovery, after which Prenda's lawyers send subpoenas to ISPs with a list of IP addresses. As has happened a few times, courts readily grant the request for expedited discovery (which is rarely denied in normal court cases), but upon learning of Prenda's overall practices, they then pull back that permission and (usually) order the lawyers to immediately inform the ISPs that the order has been withdrawn and not to comply with the subpoena. Here, the same thing happened, and Prenda's Brett Gibbs told the court that he informed ISPs that the order had been withdrawn.

Just a little while ago, however, Verizon stepped in to the case, with a declaration saying they never received any notice of the withdrawal, and had, instead, complied with the subpoena, believing it was valid.

On or about September 6, 2012, Verizon received subpoenas from plaintiff AF Holdings in AF Holdings v. John Doe, C.D. Cal. Case No. 12-cv-6669 and AF Holdings v. John Doe, C.D. Cal. Case No. 12--cv--6636. ...Verizon processed these subpoenas in the ordinary course.

Based on Verizon's records, it does not appear that Verizon received from AF Holdings or its counsel a copy of the Court's Order Vacating Prior Early Discovery Order and Order to Show Cause dated October 19, 2012, nor does it appear that Verizon received other form of notice that the subpoenas attached as Exhibits A and had been withdrawn or were invalid. If Verizon had received such notice, we would not have processed these subpoenas for AF Holdings.

I have reviewed a declaration filed by Brett Gibbs in this litigation, dated February 19, 2013, in which Mr. Gibbs states:
Following receipt of the October 19,2012 Orders, I caused the Court's October 19, 2012 Orders to be served on the registered agents for service of process of Verizon Online ensure that Verizon Online LLC had notice not to respond to the subpoenas that had already been served.
(Gibbs Decl. dated Feb. 19, 2013...) Again, based on Verizon's records, this statement appears to be wrong.

Verizon released the information responsive to AF Holdings' subpoenas in the cases identified above (case nos. 12-cv-6669 and 12-cv-6636) by fax to the Prenda law firm on November 7, 2012. If Verizon had received notice of the Court's Order dated October 19, 2012, we would not have released these records to Plaintiff.

Having Verizon come out and more or less directly state that Gibbs lied to the court isn't going to go over well when it appears that Judge Wright is already not happy with Gibbs or his buddies at Prenda...

VerizonDeclaration (PDF)VerizonDeclaration (Text)

66 Comments | Leave a Comment

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Anonymous Coward, 11 Mar 2013 @ 12:23pm

This is like watching a train wreck.

Can't. Look. Away.
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

Anonymous Coward, 11 Mar 2013 @ 2:32pm

Re:
Train wrecks are cool, ill watch with popcorn
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

Trails (profile), 11 Mar 2013 @ 12:25pm

Implosion
Implosion just doesn't describe the gravity. Kersplosion? Assplosion?
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

Nicholas Weaver (profile), 11 Mar 2013 @ 12:36pm

Re: Implosion
Remember, a Supernova is an implosion
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

ltlw0lf (profile), 11 Mar 2013 @ 2:18pm

Re: Re: Implosion
Remember, Supernovae start with an implosion.

FTFY, though, the manner of implosion depends on the type of Supernova, as Type IA supernovae actually start when the white dwarf tries to start back up with carbon-oxygen fusion producing more energy than the star can handle, causing a very large explosion as a result, but no initial implosion. The only way a white dwarf supernova could involve an implosion is if it merged with a star, which would cause a standard Type II Supernova.
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

Niall (profile), 12 Mar 2013 @ 8:37am

Re: Re: Re: Implosion
Yay for some astronomy geekery for a change!
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

Anonymous Coward, 11 Mar 2013 @ 12:32pm

That's gold, Jerry! Gold!
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
WDS (profile), 11 Mar 2013 @ 12:37pm

Caused to be Served
The term that Gibbs uses implies that he did not send the notice himself but instructed someone else to do it. Of course the term also implies they followed his instruction. It will be interesting to watch the finger pointing when the questioning about the Verizon declaration comes up.
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

That Anonymous Coward (profile), 11 Mar 2013 @ 12:42pm

Re: Caused to be Served
This is why the paralegal (or whatever her title is) has been summoned to court as well.
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

WDS (profile), 11 Mar 2013 @ 12:45pm

Re: Re: Caused to be Served
I thought she was called because she continued to call the ISP demanding compliance after the notice was supposedly sent. I fear Prenda has her picked as the sacrificial lamb for this.
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That Anonymous Coward (profile), 11 Mar 2013 @ 12:50pm

Re: Re: Re: Caused to be Served
IIRC she was tasked with passing the courts ruling on and just hadn't checked her email in time or something and he never followed up to see if she had done it.
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Anonymous Coward, 11 Mar 2013 @ 12:58pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Caused to be Served
It shouldn't matter though. He was the one given the order. He was responsible for making sure it was carried out. Even if he can claim he told someone to do it and it wasn't done, it's still on him.
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

Anonymous Coward, 11 Mar 2013 @ 2:33pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Caused to be Served
Agreed, when a court orders a lawyer in the court to do something, passing the buck gets you a contempt of court charge, and possibly disbarred.
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Anonymous Coward, 11 Mar 2013 @ 2:33pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Caused to be Served
Agreed, when a court orders a lawyer in the court to do something, passing the buck gets you a contempt of court charge, and possibly disbarred.
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

WDS (profile), 11 Mar 2013 @ 12:43pm

Re: Caused to be Served
Commenting on my own comment, sorry.

Of course this begs the question, when already in hot water with a judge, would he not confirm that the notice had in fact been sent before putting it in a declaration some 4 months later.
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

Anonymous Coward, 11 Mar 2013 @ 12:55pm

Re: Re: Caused to be Served
At that time, I suspect they still didn't really take the whole thing seriously. This has really heated up in the last few months.
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
Falindraun (profile), 12 Mar 2013 @ 7:51am

Re: Re: Caused to be Served
not if they really wanted the suspected end users info from the isp so that that prenda could sue them for something else later after finding out weather or not the end user actually had money to sue for.
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

Anonymous Coward, 11 Mar 2013 @ 1:20pm

Re: Caused to be Served
Clearly it was Alan's (Mooney or Cooper)responsibility to take care of this. They are so irresponsible, they did not even show up in court today.
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
Lord Binky, 11 Mar 2013 @ 1:45pm

Re: Caused to be Served
Doesn't matter who he points his finger at after he said 'ensure' which is saying he guaranteed the court it happened, regardless of how he arranged it.
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
Jollygreengiant (profile), 11 Mar 2013 @ 1:49pm

Re: Caused to be Served
You fool! Isn't it obvious he asked Alan Cooper to do this?
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
Anonymous Coward, 11 Mar 2013 @ 1:59pm

Re: Caused to be Served
And did not notice when the Information arrived!
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

Jay (profile), 11 Mar 2013 @ 12:38pm

It's incredible. No matter how bad the world is making me feel, this Prenda stuff manages to cheer me up to no end.
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
That Anonymous Coward (profile), 11 Mar 2013 @ 12:38pm

*whistles a happy little tune*
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
Anonymous Coward, 11 Mar 2013 @ 12:39pm

I'm not going to get anything done at work today. I'm laughing too hard and can't refresh Techdirt, Popehat, DieTrollDie, or FightCopyrightTrolls fast enough. Is anyone going to provide real time updates to the hearing?
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

Nigel (profile), 11 Mar 2013 @ 12:43pm

Re:
FCT has a live twitter feed on their home page.

N.
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
GMacGuffin (profile), 11 Mar 2013 @ 12:59pm

Re:
Ken @popehat is live tweeting from the Court
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

Matthew Cline (profile), 11 Mar 2013 @ 1:11pm

Re: Re:
Wait, I thought Ken said he wasn't going to use his computer during the hearing, since judges tend not to like it.
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

Beech, 11 Mar 2013 @ 1:29pm

Re: Re: Re:
Don't need a computer to tweet.
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

John Fenderson (profile), 11 Mar 2013 @ 4:07pm

Re: Re: Re: Re:
You don't? I want that Psychic Tweet app!
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

Falindraun (profile), 12 Mar 2013 @ 7:54am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
even cell phones have a twitter app
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

John Fenderson (profile), 12 Mar 2013 @ 9:00am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
They're also computers.
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

Anonymous Coward, 11 Mar 2013 @ 12:41pm

Mofo law
Verizon's attorney's website is mofo.com. For some reason, that made me laugh.
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

Anonymous Coward, 11 Mar 2013 @ 1:41pm

Re: Mofo law
If you know anything about the nasty crap (legal and otherwise) that Verizon pulls in the telco industry, being represented by a law firm who's domain is mofo.com is BEYOND IRONIC.
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

ralph, 11 Mar 2013 @ 12:58pm

Good grief. What does it take for the courts to come down on these guys?

Having a couple of joints on you will land you in a lot of trouble quickly and yet Prenda is still skating after having thumbed its nose at the court many, many times.

This seems lopsided. I know...this is civil court, so maybe we need some reform. Because right now it seems a little too civil.
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

GMacGuffin (profile), 11 Mar 2013 @ 12:59pm

Re:
"Because right now it seems a little too civil."

It ain't 1:30 yet...
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
Anonymous Coward, 11 Mar 2013 @ 1:18pm

Re:
Oh I think the judge was just waiting for them to add enough weight to the piano before he dropped it on their heads and ensure that the slapdown is one of epic proportions.
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

special-interesting (profile), 11 Mar 2013 @ 12:59pm

Most of what has transpired (with some Cooper exceptions) so far has been like typical of a classic copyright troll (funny shell firms, preposterous claims, preying on controversial content) of which I hope the judicial community is paying attention to but...

These guys are special. Outright, absolutely, waaaay out there in the legal twilight zone.
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it

out_of_the_blue, 11 Mar 2013 @ 1:05pm

Somebody compile all Mike's posts into a book!
C'mon, Mike. You're starting to make ME look scintillating in comparison. When did this turn into a LAWYER BLOG? -- Not even a LAW blog, just about lawyers and their chicanery. We all know how unpleasant they are, and like bugs mating, I just don't want to see it.

Take a loopy tour of Techdirt.com! You always end up at same place!
http://techdirt.com/
Prenda Law! A staple in the "At The Bench" series. Mike sez (short version): "Wow. Wow. Wow. ... The story is gripping."
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130303/23353022182/prenda-law-sues-critics-defamation .shtml
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

Nigel (profile), 11 Mar 2013 @ 1:09pm

Re: Somebody compile all Mike's posts into a book!
Hey, that is actually a great idea fuckwit. He can relegate a chapter to you and your grossly misinformed industry bullshit.

Nigel
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

n_mailer, 11 Mar 2013 @ 7:55pm

Re: Re: Somebody compile all Mike's posts into a book!
One thing for sure ... you will never see a book compiling the babbling rage-filled nonsense posts of "flagged as spam." I won't even read them on here. Once bitten twice shy.
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

Mr. Applegate, 11 Mar 2013 @ 1:31pm

Re: Somebody compile all Mike's posts into a book!
Oddly, people tend to see exactly what they look for.

So I think you must secretly want to watch bugs mate...
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

Nigel (profile), 11 Mar 2013 @ 1:36pm

Re: Re: Somebody compile all Mike's posts into a book!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6CHMef_XYc

sorry, could not resist.... I think I got the species right though.

Nigel
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

DannyB (profile), 11 Mar 2013 @ 1:34pm

Re: Somebody compile all Mike's posts into a book!
Judge Wright could sentence Gibbs to compile all of Out Of The Blue's postings into a book. Justice served.

The resulting work could then be used by the DOJ as an enhanced interrogation technique for jaywalkers.
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

special-interesting (profile), 11 Mar 2013 @ 2:05pm

Re: Re: Somebody compile all Mike's posts into a book!
I would like to see a book report or essay on the TechDirt posts graded like Drug Court judges do when evaluating if the defendant was just wheedling or actually understood (learned is too much) that the behavior was frowned upon.

The difference between crocodile tears and, at least, feigning complicity.

Singing Amazing Grace would not really help as John Newton, the author 1748, continued his slave trading for six years after he wrote the lyrics.
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
Milton Freewater, 11 Mar 2013 @ 8:02pm

Re: Re: Somebody compile all Mike's posts into a book!
"The resulting work could then be used by the DOJ as an enhanced interrogation technique for jaywalkers."

Or better yet, on interrogating people who do things that might eventually be found illegal. You've heard of investigating precrime ... OOTB is into obeying the prelaw.
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

Anonymous Coward, 11 Mar 2013 @ 5:54pm

Re: Somebody compile all Mike's posts into a book!
Aren't you always the one ranting about "the law is the law" and anyone who breaks it needs to have several books thrown at them?

You're just mad that this time your copyright heroes are under the magnifying glass. Keep squirming, you spineless little shitstain.
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

Milton Freewater, 11 Mar 2013 @ 7:59pm

Re: Re: Somebody compile all Mike's posts into a book!
"Aren't you always the one ranting about "the law is the law""

He only means that in theory. In practice, he is unfamiliar with the law and makes up stuff about it at every opportunity.

His idea of a law is a bully saying "give me your lunch money or you will be punished."
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

Anonymous Coward, 12 Mar 2013 @ 7:38am

Re: Somebody compile all Mike's posts into a book!
"...and like bugs mating, I just don't want to see it."

Then go away, boy.
You irk me.
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

Anonymous Coward, 11 Mar 2013 @ 1:10pm

emails in the court docs
does anyone notice that the email domains in the court docs are @mofo.com?
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
DannyB (profile), 11 Mar 2013 @ 1:11pm

Out of the blue just hates it when copyright trolls get the justice they deserve.
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
WDS (profile), 11 Mar 2013 @ 1:26pm

5 minutes and counting
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

DannyB (profile), 11 Mar 2013 @ 1:31pm

Re: 5 minutes and counting
Anticipation . . .

. . . oh the waiting . . .

. . .

. . .

. . . remember limerick I wrote in 2011 . . .

A problem I had to unfurl
My stomach it started to curl
A bad referenced array
I found to my dismay
I�m just glad it�s not written in C++
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

WDS (profile), 11 Mar 2013 @ 1:26pm

5 minutes and counting
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

DannyB (profile), 11 Mar 2013 @ 1:29pm

Re: 5 minutes and counting
This is more excitement and anticipation than a space shuttle launch. Or anything that Hollywood has ever turned out.
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

Gothenem (profile), 11 Mar 2013 @ 1:35pm

Re: Re: 5 minutes and counting
I agree. I am in front of my comp, with Popehat's twitter running, waiting for the debacle to begin. Ahhh, popcorn, what would we do without you.
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

That Anonymous Coward (profile), 11 Mar 2013 @ 2:31pm

Re: Re: Re: 5 minutes and counting
https://twitter.com/search/realtime?q=%23Prenda&src=hash

Get the full effect
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

Brent (profile), 11 Mar 2013 @ 1:39pm

Now that Verizon is throwing Prenda under the bus, i'm suspicious of the underlying story of this case.
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
Chris-Mouse (profile), 11 Mar 2013 @ 1:43pm

Am I the only one...
who reads that headline as "Verizon Steps On Prenda Case..."
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
Anonymous Coward, 11 Mar 2013 @ 2:57pm

This is an awesome trainwreck.
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
That Anonymous Coward (profile), 11 Mar 2013 @ 3:18pm

First report from inside...

https://twitter.com/goodreverend/status/311235414176460803
https://twitter.com/goodrev erend/status/311235699326210048
https://twitter.com/goodreverend/status/311235947838713856
https:/ /twitter.com/goodreverend/status/311236270263238660
https://twitter.com/goodreverend/status/3112365 75092674561
https://twitter.com/goodreverend/status/311236758878699521

The Real Alan Cooper showed up, Steele, Duffy, others available by phone... they will be flying blind having missed all of the testimony that went before they were called.
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

Anonymous Coward, 11 Mar 2013 @ 3:33pm

Re:
Do you think he meant "the Real Alan Cooper" as in Alan Cooper, the caretaker, or did Gibbs actually find someone named Alan Cooper to show up?
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

Anonymous Coward, 11 Mar 2013 @ 4:07pm

Re: Re:
It was Caretaker Alan Cooper.
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

Anonymous Coward, 11 Mar 2013 @ 4:16pm

You gotta love Prenda. They should get their own show; it would be huge. Kind of like a clown in the circus... getting chased by a lion, Benny Hill style.
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
Ninja (profile), 11 Mar 2013 @ 4:55pm

Now that's a big plot twist!
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
Anonymous Coward, 11 Mar 2013 @ 6:05pm

So crumbles the heroes of bob; the glorious enforcers of copyright.
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
Anonymous Coward, 12 Mar 2013 @ 12:58am

It's very telling when in order to enforce your rights, you have to break the law to enforce them.

As I told one whining troll, if your rights include you suing dead grandmothers for $150,000 per alleged claim, you don't deserve those rights.
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

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Verizon Steps In On Prenda Case; Says Brett Gibbs Never Informed Them Of Judge's Order Killing Subpoenas

from the oops dept

Reader Comments

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Mofo law

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emails in the court docs

5 minutes and counting

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Am I the only one...

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