Game Maker Studio DRM Misfires; Permanently Replaces Created Game Resources With Pirate Symbols

from the time-to-craft-a-pirate-themed-roguelike dept

Another day, another story of DRM gone wrong. Just recently, Tim Geigner posted a story about a rather expensive dictionary app that hijacked users' Twitter accounts to shame them as pirates -- even if the inadvertent tweeters had shelled out $25 for the program.

Fortunately, this situation didn't result in a bunch of paying customers outing themselves as pirates. Instead, the program in question, Game Maker Studio, permanently overwrote user-created game resources with the internationally accepted pirate symbol -- the skull and crossbones.
A recent update to Game Maker Studio has left many developers confused and frustrated after an anti-piracy system went haywire.

Those who use a legally obtained version of Studio have had game resources, such as sprites, overlayed with an image of a skull and crossbones. The resources are permanently edited, rendered useless.


While the result wasn't as publicly embarrassing, the unlucky users who had dumped hours into creating their games saw their work swiftly -- and permanently -- undone. At first, YoYo Games staff indicated affected users should run a virus scan to make sure the program hadn't been tampered with. As more bug reports poured in, it became clear that the issue wasn't on the end users' computers. Unlike some other companies whose DRM has gone wonky, YoYo Games has been proactive about fixing the issue.

Mike Dailly of Yoyo Games showed up at the original post, as well as in the Yoyo Games forums, with advice for affected users, as well as providing updates on the efforts to track the issue down. He also went the extra step of talking down a few zealous pitchfork bearers who attacked the poster reporting the problem.

Please don't ASSUME folk are using pirated copies, sometimes a virus or something can effect an exe and gives some issue like this.

The current solution is to uninstall, delete both %appdata%\GameMaker-Studio and %localappdata%\GameMaker-Studio, delete the GameMaker-Studio registry key, scan your machine in case its a virus, and then reinstall.

The program assumes a modded .exe is a crack, but this isn't always the case as a virus can also change it. I also have a feeling theres something else changing exe's.....

If your still having issues, get in touch with the help desk, let them know your key...and we'll see what we can do to help.
Unfortunately, YoYo Games isn't looking to remove its DRM scheme, despite this bug's permanent defacing of users' games. In a longer post, Dailly offers an apology, but states that Game Maker will likely never be DRM-free.
I totally understand that those who have paid for GameMaker and are getting this are feeling very upset by the whole matter, and I can only apologise for the problems. As to why it's in there should be reasonably clear. GameMaker has traditionally been one of the most pirated programs around, and it's simply not right that some pay good money for it, while others simply pirate it. We try hard to make it as smooth an experience as possible for paying users, but are constantly fighting pirates understanding of the protection systems.

We'd LOVE to be able to remove the protection completely, but we know that vast numbers would simply copy it if it was that easy. There are many levels to the current protection system, and while many are visible like this, there are also many hidden so that we can always tell when a final game was created with a crack.

We expect an update to go out tomorrow to remove this protection, and will move away from the “destructive” protection like this, to more passive methods to help protect innocent users who through no fault of their own, somehow trigger it.
This won't be much comfort to affected users and it doesn't bode well for those looking to purchase the pro version of Game Maker Studio. Moving towards a more "passive" DRM just pushes the problem to the background, rather than remove it. As in the situation mentioned at the beginning of this post, even passive DRM has its flaws -- especially when it takes it upon itself to treat paying customers as thieves.

Dailly also suggests that Game Maker might move towards some sort of "internet connection required" DRM, which is never a welcome development, no matter how inevitable.
So yes.... we can never "win". Hardware dongles can be cracked and removed, all software can be "fixed". Only "online" can reduce piracy properly, and even that can be removed by some dedicated hacker. That said, the more the world moves online, the easier it gets to block, but we're not there yet, so we do what we can.
All of this unpleasantness aside, at least this situation has altered YoYo Games' anti-piracy tactics going forward, taking it in a more pragmatic direction -- which should result in fewer paying customers being adversely affected.
Remember the goal is to drive pirates to buy, and if they think a copy will destroy their game, that's a pretty strong incentive. However, we'll make sure our concern for paying customers now takes precedence over trying to force a sale from a pirate - which will probably not happen anyway.
We've become blinkered a little in trying to stay one step ahead, and for that I totally apologise, there are certainly other ways of doing this.
As long as DRM exists, collateral damage is to be expected. Mike Dailly is to be commended for tackling this head-on, rather than shunting it off to customer service or refusing to discuss the negative impact on YoYo's customers. The only way YoYo can promise this sort of thing won't happen again is to go DRM-free, but if it's not willing to do that, an open discussion with its current (and potential) customers is at least a step in the right direction.



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  1.  
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    DannyB (profile), Nov 28th, 2012 @ 8:36am

    That's why you should only use DRM free games

    This illustrates perfectly why you should only use DRM free games.

    In Righthaven style, the game companies are just making clear to customers the advantages of pirated, cracked games.

    Similar to how release windows, and unskippable commercials are intended to clarify for movie audiences how torrented movies are superior.

     

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    out_of_the_blue, Nov 28th, 2012 @ 8:40am

    Meanwhile, Microsoft's forced registering (DRM), works.

    It's amazing but has hundreds of millions of times. Of course they hand out user codes with little trouble, but it's still a DRM system. Just a matter of refining it until as practical matter, it's near 100%. -- Like the DRM called UEFI (?) secure boot of new PCs, seems likely to give Linux big trouble SOON.

    Point is you prove nothing with yet another isolated software screw-up when the trend is clearly the other way.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Nov 28th, 2012 @ 8:44am

    Re: Meanwhile, Microsoft's forced registering (DRM), works.

    I'm curious, do you copyright trolls deliberately write false information in the comments on the hope someone falls for it?

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Nov 28th, 2012 @ 8:47am

    "Remember the goal is to drive pirates to buy"

    Well that is odd, considering it is the pirate copy that actually works as you want it too. All you seem to be doing is making the pirate version more appealing to those thinking of buying it.

     

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    Shadow Dragon (profile), Nov 28th, 2012 @ 8:48am

    Re: Meanwhile, Microsoft's forced registering (DRM), works.

    Do you have a life?

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Nov 28th, 2012 @ 8:48am

    Re: Meanwhile, Microsoft's forced registering (DRM), works.

    I was going to ask if you want to be a serf, but that would be pointless as you are already one.

     

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  7.  
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    Shadow Dragon (profile), Nov 28th, 2012 @ 8:51am

    Re: "Remember the goal is to drive pirates to buy"

    I think they do that on porpoise to get one of them into a lawsuit.

     

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    Loki, Nov 28th, 2012 @ 8:52am

    and it's simply not right that some pay good money for it, while others simply pirate it.


    It may not be right, or fair, but it is significantly less right or fair for people who shell out hard earned cash to see their works completely screwed up by useless DRM, which does little or nothing to stop pirating anyways.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Nov 28th, 2012 @ 8:52am

    Re: Meanwhile, Microsoft's forced registering (DRM), works.

    ummm obviously you have not heard of any of the ways around the 'forced' DRM they use.

    I have 2 laptops each with a purchaesed copy of win 7. One was upgraded from Vista... It thinks it was purchased with Win7 (again I bought the upgrade but why go through the hastle). It's been running and taking updates pretty much since win7 came out (couldn't wait to get vista off the laptop).

     

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    william (profile), Nov 28th, 2012 @ 8:53am

    I am sorry but you have to a complete idiot to implement these kind of DRM scheme, since we all know applications can have bugs no matter how hard you QA it. Thus DRM will have bugs too which causes it to misfire.

    I think the legit users who had this should be teamed up and sue the company for damages, because this actually damaged their property. Imagine crashing a car because some stupid DRM on the brake misfired and stopped it from working. Shouldn't the brake manufacturer be on the hook? If you are using this application to create an actual product, wouldn't your release schedule be impacted and you might need to remake all the graphics? (a good time to remind people to use source control)

    Maybe only when this kind of financial hurt will make them realized that putting a DRM on will actually cost them money, instead of just affected users sucking it up.

    Alternatively, most companies have no supporting data on how their DRM is preventing pirated copies and increasing their bottom line. Dailly probably DON'T have any evidence on how this DRM is making them more money, but just think that it "logically should" increase their revenue.

     

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  11.  
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    Zakida Paul (profile), Nov 28th, 2012 @ 8:53am

    Re: "Remember the goal is to drive pirates to buy"

    Very true. The other entertainment industries have not learned from when the music industry tried to sell DRM laden music files.

    It seems like the better educated you are, the less intelligent you are.

     

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  12.  
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    PaulT (profile), Nov 28th, 2012 @ 8:55am

    Re: Meanwhile, Microsoft's forced registering (DRM), works.

    "Meanwhile, Microsoft's forced registering (DRM), works."

    No, it doesn't, you moron. There are still many millions of pirated copies in use (thus, defeating the object of DRM in the first place since it's not stopping piracy) while there have been numerous mistakes that have left users unable to use their legally purchased OS in the past (e.g. http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2007/08/windows-genuine-advantage-suffers-worldwide-ou tage-problems-galore/).

    How does something whose only purpose is to prevent piracy while not affecting legitimate customers "work" when it demonstrably does neither? Guess what does work? The lowering of prices and competition forcing MS to create a better, more secure and stable product. Not the time wasting crap you love.

    "it's near 100%."

    Bullshit.

    Why do your attacks always have to be full of so many easily disproven lies?

    "Like the DRM called UEFI (?) secure boot of new PCs, seems likely to give Linux big trouble SOON."

    Aren't you the one in other threads whining that Google has a monopoly in search and should be blocked from having more power? Yet, you support Linux being destroyed by Microsoft's demands even though they're doing nothing illegal or immoral? At least get your own position straight. Attacking everything this site says without though just makes you look like a tool.

     

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    william (profile), Nov 28th, 2012 @ 8:56am

    Re:

    And it can also be,

    "and it's simply not right that some pay good money for it, and have to suffer the DRM because others simply pirate it. In fact, those would not have suffered DRM because they are removed by cracks"

     

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    Colin, Nov 28th, 2012 @ 8:56am

    Love his comment. "We know anything we do will ultimately be cracked and will only irritate our actual customers, so we're gonna keep at it!"

     

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    Chronno S. Trigger (profile), Nov 28th, 2012 @ 8:57am

    Re: Meanwhile, Microsoft's forced registering (DRM), works.

    Microsoft has a near 100% success rate? Wow, you're out of touch with reality. It's really easy to get around their DRM system. I may get my keys legally, but I change hardware enough to know that it's trivial to get around the protection. Hell, I learned most of the tricks at work where the windows keys were on a sticker on the case. They don't even have a 10% success rate with someone who pays.

     

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  16.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Nov 28th, 2012 @ 8:59am

    Re: Re: Meanwhile, Microsoft's forced registering (DRM), works.

    Microsoft has been letting people "upgrade" to win8 with invalid windows keys (upgrades are cheaper than buying it outright.) However, now that i think about it, they probably did that on purpose.

     

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  17.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Nov 28th, 2012 @ 9:03am

    Does no good to answer ootb. He's already stated he doesn't often read the articles and doesn't read the comments. It's a waste of effort. Hit the report button and move on.

    ---------------------

    So DRM is supposed to make you want to buy? Especially when it goes horribly wrong? Looks to me like the pirates have the better model in that it just works...all the time. Those that pay are the ones having to suffer punishment and I guess in their eyes that's a reward for having spent the money?

    Yah, right. Is it any wonder piracy exists at the levels it does when looking at this idea applied to an official version? Doesn't look like the management can even own up to why it doesn't work. They throw darts at the board hoping some reason will stick that their paying customers will believe.

     

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  18.  
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    sehlat (profile), Nov 28th, 2012 @ 9:08am

    "open discussion" won't help

    I'm certainly not going to risk buying any program that can destroy hours of hard work in an instant just because of a glitch.

    Please move me from the "potential customer" column to the "will die in my tracks before buying from them" column.

     

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  19.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Nov 28th, 2012 @ 9:08am

    Re: Re:

    or
    "GameMaker has traditionally been one of the most pirated programs around,"

    And that had no effect on those who paid good money for the game, a situation that cannot stand.

    " and it's simply not right that some pay good money for it, while others simply pirate it."

    So let's go with DRM to give people the ineffable comfort that we make an attempt that some others mightn't be able to enjoy the game without having paid for it as well as giving those same people the undoubted and special experience of having their paid for game ruined in that attempt.

     

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  20.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Nov 28th, 2012 @ 9:09am

    Re: That's why you should only use DRM free games

    The message is unmistakable:

    - If you try to be the nice guy, you get FUCKED by DRM or some other senseless crap;
    - If you, instead, opt by being a douche, at least you get what you (didn't) pay for, no strings attached (other than the unlikely situation where if you get caught, you have to pay huge fines).

    I guess that is always the third option: only buy things that fit into whatever criteria for DRM you find acceptable - no DRM, some DRM (steam), etc...

    Kinda reminds me of the old days where you had to carefully pick your computer parts to be able to run Linux. It's the price of freedom, I guess...

     

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  21.  
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    Lord Binky, Nov 28th, 2012 @ 9:09am

    Where does this fear of pirates come from?

    Is it greed? The company is quite profitable and making good profits, so the potential for even greater profits drives them to inconvienence or even harm their present customers while they try to squeeze even more from 'pirates' of which no-one has done successfully.

    Is it hubris? Their work is just that damn amazing and there is no way anyone could do better. The only thing standing in their way of success is those damn pirates.

    Is it laziness? Advertising takes to much money and effort, while they have pirates that already know about the product, so they merely have to convert them.

    Whatever these business's problem is, they are ignoring the significant benefits that come with the piracy. Do you see Autodesk fighting tooth and nail willing do destroy all the manhours of work their customers created with their products just so someone doesn't pirate Autocad? Yet, that autocad pirate is not likely using the product in commercial business, so the benefit is that they are learning their product instead of a competitor's, so when that user does go into the business world, they have the skills and the desire for that product instead of a competitor's product, which for Autodesk is a sale they would have lost otherwise.

     

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  22.  
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    E. Zachary Knight (profile), Nov 28th, 2012 @ 9:13am

    Game Maker has ensured that I will NEVER use their software.

    As a game developer, I am always on the lookout for new software to use to make my games. Fortunately, Game Maker has never really been on my radar as it is Windows only and I only develop PC games that are cross compatible with Windows, Mac and Linux.

    However, this DRM has now ensured that I will never use their software even if it become cross platform. I will not use software that treats me like a pirate after I had already paid for it.

    Of course, I don't really understand why anyone would want to use this when there are so many free and open source game development libraries. I guess the idea of being able to create a 2d game without having to program is a promising one. However, having to deal with crap like this should turn anyone off.

     

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  23.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Nov 28th, 2012 @ 9:15am

    hopefully, this will result in the game being downloaded much less. drm is nothing other than a complete pain in the arse. it frequently screws up games legitimately purchased where the 'pirated' version plays exactly as it should. talk about driving people to behave in a less than legal way, but then condemn them for doing so!

     

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  24.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Nov 28th, 2012 @ 9:16am

    Re: Re: Re: Meanwhile, Microsoft's forced registering (DRM), works.

    Yeah, people have been able to install pirated copies of Windows 8 and then, if they were installing the Pro version, could download the Media Center Upgrade/Update pack. At which point, you registered to receive said upgrade/update and would then be given a link and key that would fully and legitimately activate your pirated copy. They wrote about it on Ars and The Verge and a ton of other sites.

     

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  25.  
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    Beech, Nov 28th, 2012 @ 9:20am

    Re: Meanwhile, Microsoft's forced registering (DRM), works.

    ENGLISH, MOTHERFUCKER. DO YOU SPEAK IT?!

    Seriously! I recognize all the words as English, but they're strung together in some incomprehensible slurry of nonsense.

     

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  26.  
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    Shadow Dragon (profile), Nov 28th, 2012 @ 9:20am

    Re:

    For me why use Autodesk when you can use Blender,Why use Photoshop when you can use GIMP.

     

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  27.  
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    CK20XX, Nov 28th, 2012 @ 9:20am

    Re: Meanwhile, Microsoft's forced registering (DRM), works.

    Ok, look, Jack Thompson, I know you're still bitter over your permanent disbarment and you have way too much free time now, but this is the exact same behavior that got you to be a disgrace and a laughingstock in the first place.

    And don't go throwing your religion at me either. I believe Matthew chapter 7 has something to say about false prophets like you, something about God declaring, "I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!"

     

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  28.  
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    Bergman (profile), Nov 28th, 2012 @ 9:23am

    Since pirates don't usually register their pirated products, their existence is ultimately more theoretical than proven.

    DRM operates on the theory that it's better to insult, defame and falsely accuse your paying customers than it is to take a chance that a person who may or may not actually exist might get something for free.

    I don't do business with people who don't respect me. I often wonder what's wrong with people, that causes them to not care about such things.

     

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  29.  
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    Bengie, Nov 28th, 2012 @ 9:31am

    hmm

    I'm just waiting for someone to bill them for lost hours.

    If a hidden "feature" of my car was to detect if someone tried to modify the logo on the grill, then had a false positive and decided to cause damage to property, I would think one could sue.

     

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  30.  
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    varagix, Nov 28th, 2012 @ 9:35am

    Re: Re: Meanwhile, Microsoft's forced registering (DRM), works.

    99% agree with your post, with one minor change: remove "look like" from the last sentence.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Nov 28th, 2012 @ 9:41am

    In other news, out_of_the_blue continues to clompletly and utterly discreadit himself(herself?)_

     

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  32.  
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    John Fenderson (profile), Nov 28th, 2012 @ 9:42am

    Note to self

    Add YoYo Games and anything made with GameMaker Studio to my Do Not Buy list.

     

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  33.  
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    Maurício Gomes, Nov 28th, 2012 @ 9:45am

    I am a independent developer with some years of career already.



    At one point I used Game Maker, but it DRM was crap...



    IE: I bought 3 licenses for my team, and it refused to launch in two computers of the team (including my own), after some lengthy discussion with YoYo, I did a test.



    I went to google, and typed: "game maker free"



    I downloaded the first link... And whooray! It worked fine!

    I reported this to YoYo.

    Their reply was: "you are a filthy pirate that pirated our software" (note: like I said, I paid 3 licenses of Game Maker), and they deleted all my support tickets and stealthbanned me from the foruns after I complained there (ie: since banning would be obvious to other forum members, they instead removed ALL my permissions, even permission to see the forum list, but do not banned my username).



    Now I not only avoid Game Maker, but I actively campaign for other indies to not use it, I already convinced a bunch of studios to stop using it.

    This recent DRM problem only helps me in my "quest" to further free people from that DRM-riddled thing.



    I wish Overmars moved away from YoYo, his ideas were actually good :/

    note: I once sent a e-mail to Overmars complaining of the situation, his reply was: "say sorry to them".

    I was like: WTF, they fail to help me, and I am the one that have to say sorry?

     

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  34.  
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    John Fenderson (profile), Nov 28th, 2012 @ 9:45am

    Re: Meanwhile, Microsoft's forced registering (DRM), works.

    That's one of the big reasons I don't buy Microsoft products. As to UEFI, that's not DRM at all, and in any case it won't cause Linux Big Trouble. It might cause A Bit of Hassle for users wanting to install it on cheap prebuilt computers, though.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Nov 28th, 2012 @ 9:48am

    Huh?

    "Remember the goal is to drive pirates to buy, and if they think a copy will destroy their game, that's a pretty strong incentive."

    Except that it's only the paid copies that destroy their games. They claim to be "one of the most pirated programs around," so how exactly is their DRM being effective?

    The strategy seems to be that building in these gotchas makes the game harder to crack, thus reducing piracy. But they admit that any DRM scheme can be broken. What they seem to miss is that it only has to be done once per release, and then copied ad infinitum. Meanwhile all those DRM timebombs are ticking away in the paid versions....

     

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  36.  
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    Lord Binky, Nov 28th, 2012 @ 9:50am

    Re: Re:

    Exactly, that's what they should be more concerned about, without the user's being invested in the programs, competitors are allowed to take more legitimate customers which is more detrimental to Autodesk and Adobe than pirates ever would be.

     

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  37.  
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    DocMAME, Nov 28th, 2012 @ 9:57am

    Re: Game Maker has ensured that I will NEVER use their software.

    GameMaker Studio is multi-platform, it is not Windows only.

     

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  38.  
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    Baldaur Regis (profile), Nov 28th, 2012 @ 10:05am

    Re: Game Maker has ensured that I will NEVER use their software.

    I was going to make a joke about this being a perfect platform for developing a pirate-based game (as it already has built-in pirate graphics), but then got to wondering if YoYo would claim copyright on the images.

     

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  39.  
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    E. Zachary Knight (profile), Nov 28th, 2012 @ 10:06am

    Re: Re: Game Maker has ensured that I will NEVER use their software.

    Learn something new everyday. However, Linux is one of my core platforms and it does not support it. Still doesn't make a lick of difference after this news though.

     

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  40.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Nov 28th, 2012 @ 10:15am

    Did I read this correctly?

    Remember the goal is to drive pirates to buy, and if they think a copy will destroy their game, that's a pretty strong incentive. However, we'll make sure our concern for paying customers now takes precedence over trying to force a sale from a pirate - which will probably not happen anyway."


    The goal is to get pirates to buy, but that's probably not going to happen anyway? He admits this, but he's still going to spend the money to implement DRM???

     

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  41.  
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    ChrisB (profile), Nov 28th, 2012 @ 10:19am

    Re: Game Maker has ensured that I will NEVER use their software.

    I've actually used GameMaker to make a dozen games, back when it was free. Mark Overmars, a professor teaching game design, created it and then sold it to YoYo.

    They have a pretty solid system there, and even have an app designer module.

    In my opinion, they should just give the basic software away or sell it cheap, but monetize support services (like hosting, advanced training, special modules, etc). Or maybe have a subsidized version of the software which puts ads in the games.

    In any case, this is disappointing, and I'll probably look elsewhere. I've created sprites before, and I'd be pretty choked if all of mine were wiped out.

     

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  42.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Nov 28th, 2012 @ 10:22am

    Re: Re: Re: Game Maker has ensured that I will NEVER use their software.

    Hey, at least they said it was a screwup at their end, rather than doubling-down and saying that those reporting it must all be criminals.

     

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  43.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Nov 28th, 2012 @ 10:23am

    Re: That's why you should only use DRM free games

    Yep, the only thing I can really say I learned from their response is that my best chance of getting a properly working copy is via piracy. Somehow I don't think that's what they were going for.

     

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    drewdad (profile), Nov 28th, 2012 @ 10:26am

    Er....

    "we can always tell when a final game was created with a crack."

    Obviously not.

     

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    Zos (profile), Nov 28th, 2012 @ 10:32am

    umm. title is misleading. "permanent" i can't find anything in either the linked blog, or the torrentfreak article (where i saw this originally) that says this isn't fixable. In fact the blog you link has a possible fix listed.


    not a huge deal, but it's the kind of detail that's likely to cause blowback.

     

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  46.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Nov 28th, 2012 @ 10:35am

    This proves the problem with DRM. If you're going to treat me like a pirate anyway why would I want to pay you to do that?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  47.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Nov 28th, 2012 @ 10:43am

    Re: Meanwhile, Microsoft's forced registering (DRM), works.

    Yeah, no problems with GFWL either. Dipshit.

     

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  48.  
    identicon
    Milton Freewater, Nov 28th, 2012 @ 10:48am

    Just do without

    I will never pirate or pay for Game Maker Studio.

    Problem solved.

     

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  49.  
    icon
    John Fenderson (profile), Nov 28th, 2012 @ 10:52am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Game Maker has ensured that I will NEVER use their software.

    True, and I'll give them that much. But they still haven't realized what their actual screwup is: basic logic.

    Setting aside whether or not DRM works, their logic is:

    1) Pirate obtains copy of program
    2) Pirate creates game
    3) Program defaces their game
    4) They'll get so irritated by this that they'll purchase the product.

    #4 is absolutely wrong. The pirate will do one of two things: either stop using the program entirely or find a better crack. This is not a path to monetizing them. Thinking that it is is their real error.

     

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  50.  
    identicon
    Lord Binky, Nov 28th, 2012 @ 11:15am

    They don't even go about it in the right way. It is so full of wasted effort for little to no reward.

    What I don't understand is why they don't make Game Maker free for personal use, and licenced for commercial use. Any games made using Game Maker will have coding in the files the studio can easily check to identify if the game is uses their software. Then check suspected commercial releases of games against their licence list, and TADAA! you know who your licence breakers are with the additional benefit, this is a group with money that is worth the effort to shake down.

     

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  51.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Nov 28th, 2012 @ 11:26am

    Re:

    No true. Read the second paragraph of this citation; http://gamemakerblog.com/2012/11/26/skull-crossbones-vandalize-studio-games/

     

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  52.  
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    fb39ca4 (profile), Nov 28th, 2012 @ 11:29am

    Re: Re: "Remember the goal is to drive pirates to buy"

    Dolphinately.

     

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  53.  
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    fb39ca4 (profile), Nov 28th, 2012 @ 11:30am

    Re: hmm

    No you couldn't because you agreed in the license that YoYo would not be liable for any harm arising from use of the software or something along those lines.

     

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  54.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Nov 28th, 2012 @ 11:32am

    Re:

    "Whatever these business's problem is, they are ignoring the significant benefits that come with the piracy. Do you see Autodesk fighting tooth and nail willing do destroy all the manhours of work their customers created with their products just so someone doesn't pirate Autocad? Yet, that autocad pirate is not likely using the product in commercial business, so the benefit is that they are learning their product instead of a competitor's, so when that user does go into the business world, they have the skills and the desire for that product instead of a competitor's product, which for Autodesk is a sale they would have lost otherwise."

    Actually, I work in IT and have had to deal with Autodesk and their attempts to stop piracy. It is fucking ridiculous the lengths they go through to determine if you are pirating their software and the lengths and insinuations they'll make if you are anything but 100% willing to bend over and let them do as they please to monitor you.

    I was having issues installing a legitimately purchased copy of AutoCAD on a company laptop for a new employee. We also had in addition to the standalone license a subscription for 5 seats, of which 2 were free. So after trying and trying to install and correctly license AutoCAD, I received a phone call from a lady working for them who said that we were now up for a "compliance check" due to the fact that they registered us as having issues licensing their product which we paid for. I explained that the license wasn't being accepted and she said that wasn't her problem/concern and any delaying on my part of the compliance check would be seen as non-compliance, at which point she would contact the BSA and they could/would proceed with filing a suit against the company I work for. Needless to say I informed my boss who told me to just do whatever I needed to to get them off our back and straighten things out. Which led to Autodesk's compliance representative sending me a file which you must run from the domain server which then checks all computers on the network and determines which if any have EVER had Autodesk software on them, which still have software on them and what if any licenses/subscription are they licensed with. I did so. The lady then called me after I emailed me with the results and accused me of shutting down computers because there were more entries on the domain for computers than there were actual results, I explained that before I came on computers either died or were outright replaced and that explained the "missing" entries. She then accused me again of cheating, at which point I kind of lost it and told her she was welcome to fly down and personally watch me run said software on each and every single machine in the building and we could go over the results together, with me questioning her every step of the way, and getting this whole thing done face to face to ensure no cheating on my part or misunderstandings on hers. At which point she backed down and had me run it again and when the results were the same she chilled out. (Of course, just to be a dick, I manually ran the scan on each machine anyway and sent her all the results. Thus ruining her day and forcing her to perform additional work. But hey, if you're going to accuse me of something you better be ready for me to prove you wrong and make your life just as miserable.)

    We came out clean at the end of things, and they still refused to help settle the licensing issue. I eventually had to get help from the subscription reseller to get everything going and have loathed/hated ALL Autodesk software ever since. That was in January of this year.

     

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  55.  
    icon
    gorehound (profile), Nov 28th, 2012 @ 11:38am

    If it has DRM then Boycott it.That is my way.
    Very Simple.
    No DRM in my home.

     

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  56.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Nov 28th, 2012 @ 12:09pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Game Maker has ensured that I will NEVER use their software.

    It's good they fessed up to it.

    However, if I sell you lawn gnome that you place in your yard, then I run over and smash the gnome in the middle of the night thinking you stole the gnome from me and apologize the next day talking about how such measures are necessary in this age of lawn gnome theft... I really don't think you'd care too much.

     

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  57.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Nov 28th, 2012 @ 12:17pm

    Re:

    wow

    just ... wow


    these people don't deserve to make a single cent, they're obviously too incompetent to do business

     

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  58.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Nov 28th, 2012 @ 12:18pm

    And yet another game maker who will not see my money come their way.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  59.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Nov 28th, 2012 @ 12:27pm

    Re: Re: hmm

    Unless the license explicitly claims to give YoYo the right to destroy property that may or may not have been created using their property, i wouldn't count on a license agreement holding up as a defense.

    The problem is that this was not an "accident" or a misuse of the product. This was a false positive, where they willfully and deliberately destroyed user property.

     

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  60.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Nov 28th, 2012 @ 12:33pm

    Re:

    Not only that, but I discovered several months ago that Autodesk provides student versions of nearly ALL of their software for FREE. You can't use it commercially, but the only limitation on the software is a watermark.

     

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  61.  
    identicon
    DogBreath, Nov 28th, 2012 @ 12:35pm

    Re: Re: Re: "Remember the goal is to drive pirates to buy"

    You hit it right on the bottlenose.

     

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  62.  
    identicon
    DogBreath, Nov 28th, 2012 @ 12:51pm

    Re:

    note: I once sent a e-mail to Overmars complaining of the situation, his reply was: "say sorry to them".

    I would send them Paul Ruben to say "sorry".

     

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  63.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Nov 28th, 2012 @ 1:16pm

    Re:

    I am sorry but you have to a complete idiot to implement these kind of DRM scheme, since we all know applications can have bugs no matter how hard you QA it. Thus DRM will have bugs too which causes it to misfire.

    Preach on brother! I still remember the bad old days of Starforce... lost two CD-ROM drives to that crapola!

     

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  64.  
    icon
    Gwiz (profile), Nov 28th, 2012 @ 1:26pm

    Re: Re:

    For me why use Autodesk when you can use Blender,Why use Photoshop when you can use GIMP.

    There is also FreeCAD for design work. It still needs some refinement but is usable and "feels" more like AutoCAD then Blender to me. There is also Inkscape to compete with Illustrator. The biggest problem I've had with any open source graphics programs is dealing with CMYK color spaces, which none seem to do very well yet.

     

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  65.  
    identicon
    Rekrul, Nov 28th, 2012 @ 1:32pm

    Re:

    I think the legit users who had this should be teamed up and sue the company for damages, because this actually damaged their property. Imagine crashing a car because some stupid DRM on the brake misfired and stopped it from working. Shouldn't the brake manufacturer be on the hook? If you are using this application to create an actual product, wouldn't your release schedule be impacted and you might need to remake all the graphics? (a good time to remind people to use source control)

    Read the EULA. Every single piece of software in existence, which includes an EULA, has a paragraph stating that the software company is not responsible for any damages caused by their program. Nor do they warranty it to actually work, or that it will serve any particular purpose you might need it for.

     

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  66.  
    identicon
    Rekrul, Nov 28th, 2012 @ 1:36pm

    Re: Re: Re: hmm

    Unless the license explicitly claims to give YoYo the right to destroy property that may or may not have been created using their property, i wouldn't count on a license agreement holding up as a defense.

    The license agreement of virtually all software explicitly says that the company cannot be held liable for any damages arising out of the use of their program.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  67.  
    icon
    John Fenderson (profile), Nov 28th, 2012 @ 1:48pm

    Re: Re:

    True, but that paragraph is not ironclad. There have been cases where manufacturers were held liable despite it.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  68.  
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    That One Guy (profile), Nov 28th, 2012 @ 2:09pm

    Re: Re: That's why you should only use DRM free games

    There is a sorta middle ground between the two options actually, that of paying for the legit(broken) product, and then downloading the pirated(working) version.

    Why someone would want to support a company pushing out broken products is beyond me, and you do run the risk of stunts like this being pulled, which can end up totaling your working program(which you can just re-download I suppose), but the option to get the best of both worlds by supporting the company and getting a working product is there, should people care for it.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  69.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Nov 28th, 2012 @ 2:17pm

    Re: Re: Meanwhile, Microsoft's forced registering (DRM), works.

    Microsoft has a near 100% success rate? Wow, you're out of touch with reality.

    In out-of-their-brain's defense, the system is 100% more successful then their old DRM, which involved typing 111-1111111 as the product key.

    Still, 100% of 0 is still 0.

     

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  70.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Nov 28th, 2012 @ 4:46pm

    LOL The pirated version is fucking DRM FREE.

     

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  71.  
    icon
    That Anonymous Coward (profile), Nov 28th, 2012 @ 7:34pm

    Rather than give you more features and try to attract more users, we are going to pull our dicks out and repeatedly smash them with a hammer until piracy stops.

    Chasing "lost" imaginary dollars, just cost them anything more than they lost from people pirating their program.

    - Paying users were screwed. Oooh blame viruses and malware. No blame a company who thought if you fail a check we screw up all of your work.

    - Pirates... still unaffected. More than likely they saw this code, wrote around it, and laughed at the company.

    - The budget for this DRM code would have been better spent making the program better. That is the best way to convert "pirates" to customers.

    A majority of software pirates, often to do because there is no way to try the program before you buy. This died off a long time ago. Now we have perfectly rendered game "play" samples that are generated on machines well beyond system spec showing lovely details... but nothing about how it really plays. You hear what a program can do, but can't try it for your own needs first. They expect you to hand them money and pray you get anything near what they promised.
    How many products now are released because of the deadline... not because they are done.
    Software now seems to include the notion of until the first 3 patches are out, don't bother.

    Companies are blind to the consumers who pay them now, focused more on the dollars they imagine they lost. They are actively antagonizing people who pay them, carrying on a lost battle against pirates.
    Pirates want to watch a movie, click a button and watch.
    Customers are forced to watch 5 warnings telling them don't even THINK about making a copy of this, followed by 5 minutes of ads for other movies they might not give a crap about. Then 2 minutes of finding the right settings and waiting for fancy menus to draw... and then the movie starts. And lets not even cover what happened with early adopter bluray owners who were left with movies they could not play because it was to expensive to get the new keys for the older players.

     

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  72.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Nov 28th, 2012 @ 10:56pm

    Don't let people pirate it, just make the legitimate version too dangerous to use which forces our legitimate users to pirate it!

    THEN PIRATES WILL BE OUR LEGITIMATE USERS!

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  73.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Nov 29th, 2012 @ 12:01am

    I hope they get sued out of existence for ruining people's work.

     

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  74.  
    identicon
    online identity is for chumps, Nov 29th, 2012 @ 12:12am

    "Remember the goal is to drive pirates to buy"

    using drm to achieve that is just a pipe dream though. all drm strategies are good at is scaring legitimate users away and turning them into pirates.

    someone who pirates the game isn't going to buy it in the first place, because either the price is unfair, or the program is not worth the price in his opinion. no matter how much you'll try to change his mind through underhanded tactics like drm, he won't buy it.

    there's also no such thing as "sales lost to piracy", since those people would simply not get the product at all otherwise. it's more of "interest generated by piracy" and "potential pirates becoming legitimate customers".

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  75.  
    icon
    PaulT (profile), Nov 29th, 2012 @ 1:29am

    Re:

    Yes, yes and yes. It's greed because no matter how much they're making from existing customers, they're willing to do whatever it takes to get more - even if that risks screwing over said existing customers.

    It's hubris because they cannot comprehend that the quality of their work is suspect (and may be what drives some to piracy in order to preview before paying). They simply believe that if somehow piracy were to disappear, their work is so great that money would naturally flood in.

    It's laziness because they opt for the "easy" choice (lawsuits and DRM) rather than the "hard" option (changing business models, constant two way communication with customers, R&D that keeps them ahead of competition, competitive pricing and no regional restrictions, etc.). One road requires real thought and effort, the other means they can just whine about piracy when it doesn't work and ask the government to do their work for them.

    I'm not sure that the company being discussed in the article above necessarily fits all these criteria, but it's almost guaranteed that the fallout from this will have lost them more sales than a non-DRM approach could have lost from piracy.

     

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  76.  
    icon
    btrussell (profile), Nov 29th, 2012 @ 2:46am

    Re: Re: Re: That's why you should only use DRM free games

    I know of a nine year old girl who will disagree with you. Ask her what happened after she made her purchase.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  77.  
    icon
    orbitalinsertion (profile), Nov 29th, 2012 @ 5:23am

    They certainly chose a ridiculous way to effect the DRM enforcement. As long as it remains as is, the software is essentially useless. You can lose all your work because of (maybe) malware? When almost all code is written to the "good enough" standard (for varying values of "good enough") unintended consequences are to be expected. So, minus one hundred for implementation.

    This is why backups are important. And why the types of DRM that make backups difficult or impossible add yet another layer of "don't buy me" to such products.

    The company certainly responded reasonably in communication, which is nice, but not so much in practice, which still leaves their product highly suspect.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  78.  
    icon
    orbitalinsertion (profile), Nov 29th, 2012 @ 5:32am

    Re: Re:

    EULAs say a lot of things that may be completely unenforceable, and it is high time these are tested in court.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  79.  
    icon
    orbitalinsertion (profile), Nov 29th, 2012 @ 5:37am

    Re: Re:

    Completely ineffectual greed. Likely, it costs the greedy in development, support, and lost sales.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  80.  
    icon
    orbitalinsertion (profile), Nov 29th, 2012 @ 5:53am

    Re:

    No, that cannot possibly restore destroyed work. Read it again. Read the instructions.

    All this potentially does is to make the program usable again. The program you probably have walked away from in disgust. The program that you cannot trust, so why waste your valuable time using it?

     

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  81.  
    icon
    orbitalinsertion (profile), Nov 29th, 2012 @ 5:56am

    "Remember the goal is to drive pirates to buy"

    Remember, the effect is to drive buyers to piracy.

    Have fun with that.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  82.  
    identicon
    monkyyy, Nov 29th, 2012 @ 8:30am

    Re: Re: "Remember the goal is to drive pirates to buy"

    define education, do u mean reading alot of books and such or "schooling"

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  83.  
    icon
    Zos (profile), Nov 29th, 2012 @ 9:40am

    Re: Re:

    fair cop guvnor, i completely missed that the first time through.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  84.  
    icon
    That One Guy (profile), Nov 29th, 2012 @ 10:16am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: That's why you should only use DRM free games

    I never said it was a smart option, and in fact it's one I wouldn't ever bother with personally due to my dislike of supporting a company that pushes broken products, I just said it's there.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  85.  
    identicon
    Valkor, Nov 29th, 2012 @ 10:47am

    Re: "Remember the goal is to drive pirates to buy"

    It takes a lot of work to drive a pirate to buy, but a lot less work to drive a paying customer to your competitors.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  86.  
    identicon
    PsychoScream, Nov 30th, 2012 @ 11:35am

    YoYo Huh?

    When Mark Overmars sold Game Maker to YoYo Games, my thinking went like this: "YoYo Games? What kind of LOSER name is that? They will obviously FUCK the software up!"

    So I never upgraded.

    It's good to see I was right.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  87.  
    identicon
    Trinsec, Jan 3rd, 2013 @ 5:31am

    Wow, thanks for the heads up!

    Currently Gamemaker Studio is on sale at Steam and I have been wondering if I should try this out. I was pretty close to buying this until I found this article. This type of 'DRM' is too moronic and I'll pass, unfortunately.

    Just wanted to show that those kind of reports are enough to chase away honest customers. I've not tried this Gamemaker thing yet, and reading this I don't think I ever will either. I'll try to find another way to make games instead, even if it might be harder.

     

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  88.  
    identicon
    neophonic, Mar 13th, 2013 @ 9:19pm

    DRM

    Ultimately this industry has gone from the tron like user scenario in the 80's with garage developers swapping knowledge and programs for FREE!! (My favorite time might I add) to the next big business and corporate ownership war. This situation is comparable to Walmart closing most small business in smaller towns with an (all in one appeal) As larger software devs and Hardware devs are now clubbing together under the umbrella of a better user experience. They have done this with the internet now to a point its like another world of advertising and 'COOKIES' and pay to play everything, Company's should give us software! and pay us to use it and view millions of internet based ad's etc... per year! I am most confused as to how as users aka (people that paid for the product in the first place OWNERSHIP not licence) we are expected to use this crap, when its often better to take it apart and rebuild it to fit a professionals requirements. Then you have game maker it is a piece of software for developing software. why cant we copyright anything developed on our purchased product if it works across the board?

     

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  89.  
    identicon
    neophonic, Mar 13th, 2013 @ 9:22pm

    Re: Wow, thanks for the heads up!

    Unity is the way to go Game maker is for kids (my 6 year old can make simple games with it) and people that think they will get rich making games with it. Its like google.. the best way to gather the collective knowledge to develop your next best seller among the big boys of games.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  90.  
    identicon
    elizabeth, Jul 27th, 2013 @ 7:05am

    I bought game maker professional for my 12 year old son for Christmas. He creates a game and every time the system updates the game is erased. Is the problem this DRM thing? If he saves to a flash drive will that fix the problem.? How do I get in touch with the company to find out what is happening? It is frustrating to see a kid work one code for months then it disappears.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  91.  
    identicon
    ninjewbag, Aug 7th, 2013 @ 1:41pm

    Hello, any software better than Game Maker?

    Hello, I couldn't agree with you more. Could you fill me in on any great game creating software by any chance? Thanks!

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  92.  
    identicon
    keith2blu, Aug 29th, 2013 @ 10:13am

    Final Solution

    I think I can solve my moral issue AND get a good copy of software.

    1. Buy legal copy
    2. Download and install pirated copy
    3. Bask in my WORKING software

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]


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