Charles Carreon Still Dishing Out Threats & Intimidation… While Hiding From Court Summons

from the keep-digging-carreon dept

Remember that rule number one of the Carreon Effect is that, when someone calls you out on your ridiculous position… just keep digging. And the man behind the effect apparently would like to make sure that his name really does set the gold standard in “just keep digging.” Yes, that’s right — the man, the myth, the sheer wackiness of Charles Carreon is back. Except, that is, if you’re trying to serve him for bogus threats against you. You may remember Charles Carreon for his famous lawsuit against the Oatmeal and a variety of unrelated other organizations, followed up by threats against parody accounts (doubly amusing, given Carreon’s own fondness for parodying others).

While Carreon eventually dropped his lawsuit against Matthew Inman at The Oatmeal, it wasn’t before one of the parody bloggers he had threatened filed for declaratory judgment, claiming that his blogging was legal. Carreon quite clearly was threatening the blogger, and had even suggested that he would wait until the attention died down to sue — which clearly gives the blogger grounds for seeking a declaratory judgment. That, of course, is a separate lawsuit, initiated by the blogger, so Carreon can’t just drop it. But what he can do, apparently, is everything possible to avoid being served. The judge’s own summary of the situation (via Popehat):

Plaintiff seeks a declaratory judgment that his satirical website does not infringe the trademark defendant has in his own name. Prior to filing a complaint, plaintiff’s counsel was in contact with defendant via email. After filing the complaint, defendant and his wife publicly discussed the pending litigation. Plaintiff’s counsel mailed defendant a request for waiver of summons to his address in Tucson, Arizona, which defendant did not execute. Instead, the entire envelope was mailed back to plaintiff, unopened, inside a second envelope. This same sequence of events was repeated after plaintiff filed an amended complaint. At plaintiff’s request, the Court issued a summons, and plaintiff hired an Arizona process service company to serve the summons at the residential address. On the first visit, the server announced himself and was told “No thank you,” and left with the papers. On the second and third visits, nobody answered. The process service company then tried to serve the summons and complaint by certified mail, but the package was never claimed.

Of course, during this time that Carreon was hiding out from officially being served, it didn’t stop him from continuing to find ways to intimidate the blogger in question. Again, from the judge:

During this time, defendant contacted the general counsel of Walgreens, plaintiff’s employer, stating plaintiff had used Walgreens’ computer equipment or internet access to create the allegedly actionable website, and implying he might make Walgreens a party to the litigation under a theory of respondeat superior. The demand letter sent to Walgreens contained the same Tucson, Arizona address and email address that plaintiff had been using to attempt service on defendant.

Following that, the blogger’s lawyers once again emailed Carreon a copy of the summons, complaint and amended complaint — including sending it to the address Carreon used to threaten Walgreens… and Carreon ignored that too.

Unfortunately, Carreon seems to be working the system effectively. Because even with all of these obvious attempts to avoid having to actually deal with the lawsuit against him, the judge is asking the blogger and his lawyers to “try harder:”

The process server could easily wait outside the fence for defendant to enter or leave the residence and could then leave the papers in the defendant’s presence. Alternatively, the process server may choose to wait near a location defendant is thought to frequent, such as an office or grocery store. If the defendant still refuses to accept the papers, it will be considered sufficient if the “server is in close proximity to the defendant, clearly communicates intent to serve court documents, and makes reasonable efforts to leave the papers with the defendant.”

And with that, the judge refuses to allow the emails to constitute proper service. Public Citizen, who is handling the case pro bono, is asking for donations to help pay for hiring someone to “sit outside Carreon’s house until Carreon appears,” noting that he’s “carrying through on his promise to run up the cost of litigation.”

It’s unclear what Carreon thinks he’s accomplishing here, as he’s going to have to face these charges eventually. But, as once again seems clear, his response is to… just keep digging.

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Comments on “Charles Carreon Still Dishing Out Threats & Intimidation… While Hiding From Court Summons”

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64 Comments
Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Nuts

“But at this point, I’m inclined to think that he is actually unbalanced.”

Didn’t one of his lawyer buddies suggest as much? Something along the lines of “yeah he’s normally a good dude go easy on him” and then changing his tune to “holy crap this guy went batshit insane” when learning the details?

(Fake edit: Yeah I just looked it up, the lawyer in question is none other than Marc Randazza himself. His piece includes the telling quote “This will not end well for him. I just want to say that I tried. I really tried to get him to come to his senses. I tried really, really hard.”.)

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: just goes to show

that a crooked lawyer knows how to game the system and get away with pretty much anything. This is typical of the U.S. “justice” system – you can make all the threats you want and nothing will come of it.

It seems that this is the justice system, through the Judge, letting the game continue because the defendant is a lawyer. How long would the judge say “try harder” if the defendant wasn’t a lawyer?

Anonymous Coward says:

Geez. THIS is the kind of man that is responsible for all the lawyer jokes there are, and by default is the kind of attorney that gives other attorneys a bad name (and a sense of shame at having to be lumped in with attorneys like this).

I’d say what I’m actually thinking about all this, but I’m a bit hesitant to. I wouldn’t want to get Tara to start making legal threats against me and then accusing me of being a Nazi and whatnot. Like the last time she was on this site making similar claims.

I’d feel sorry for them, but they certainly do bring it upon themselves. As such I don’t.

out_of_the_blue says:

Wait a second: weren't you claiming Megaupload can't be served?

Because has no US address (even though said was using US servers)? I didn’t bother reading the legalisms closely, but looks to me like same dodging, only now you’re against this time-honored tradition.

[What I call the “Masnick dodge” is, in brief, to promise five years ago to soon explain how “sunk (or fixed) costs” could always be recovered, and ever since to only ignore or divert or bluster when questioned on the topic. See Mike’s “can’t compete” piece; search for “recovered”, should get you to his post about middle of the many comments, if I recall accurately.]

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Wait a second: weren't you claiming Megaupload can't be served?

Hey there, ootb. Welcome to the Internet! You may wish to know about this lovely feature we have here in the present called a “hyperlink”. Allow me to demonstrate how they work. Easy!

While we’re talking about that comment, I fail to see where it says sunk costs can always be recovered, or where Mike blusters, ignores, or diverts. All I see are answers.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Wait a second: weren't you claiming Megaupload can't be served?

Ah well, I give. You stupid fuck, go away and die a horrible cancer riddled death.

I hate myself already for stooping to name calling and death wishes but you my friend are as bat shit crazy as Carreon.

Again; get over being called out as a douche as you very obviously are the king of the douches. Carreon is a close second but you take the cake for trollish behavior brought on by butthurt. I bet your ass bleeds continually.

Rikuo (profile) says:

Re: Wait a second: weren't you claiming Megaupload can't be served?

Yes, because Megaupload has no US offices, no US address. This article is dealing with people living and working entirely within the US. So the Megaupload case has absolutely nothing in common with this story.

Try harder…no wait, don’t try at all. You just completely fail. At everything.

Colin (user link) says:

Re: Wait a second: weren't you claiming Megaupload can't be served?

[What I call the “Masnick dodge” is, in brief, to promise five years ago to soon explain how “sunk (or fixed) costs” could always be recovered, and ever since to only ignore or divert or bluster when questioned on the topic. See Mike’s “can’t compete” piece; search for “recovered”, should get you to his post about middle of the many comments, if I recall accurately.]

At least you don’t hold a grudge and have healthily gotten over it. That’s all that matters.

Atkray (profile) says:

Re: WTF?

Yeah I wondered about the process server ring the doorbell and leaving. When I got out of high school I worked serving papers in California. I had to make sure of 2 things 1 the person would self identify, and 2 that I left the papers. Mostly it was ring the doorbell and ask are you _______? If I got an affirmative I handed them the papers and announced they had been served. If they wouldn’t take them I was instructed to let them fall on their feet.

The hardest part was to get them to self identify, wearing brown clothes and carrying a metal clipboard worked pretty good for that though.

That One Guy (profile) says:

Re: Re: WTF?

You know, that might actually work this time around. Have someone go up in brown clothes, carrying a package(empty box) tucked under their arm with a clipboard in the other hand. Get Carreon to the door, get him to identify himself, hand him a pen as though he’s about to need to sign something, and then hand him the clipboard, which happens to contain the court papers.

Then just walk away and try not to laugh too hard until you’ve left the property.

Alternatively have the clipboard contain a short ‘I, ____ have received package X’ sheet, and have the package contain the court papers, though in that case you’d probably be better off just mailing the papers to him via UPS or something, to avoid any potential problems with impersonating a mail courier.

Anonymous Coward says:

If I lived closer, I’d volunteer to sit outside this guy’s place for a day. Just bring a nice book, laptop or something else to do. It’d be worth it just so that we could move on to the next step and see what kind of wacky stuff he’d start pulling in court. Maybe I should buy some shares in a popcorn company.

That Anonymous Coward (profile) says:

*sits back and enjoys the popcorn*
So whats the over under on Tara showing up next?
I hope before Sunday, she most likely has a shot as several of the funnies posts slots for the week.
As to the trolls talking about Mega, WTF.
Comparing a civil matter to a civil matter pretending to be criminal.
Comparing a corporation with no US presence to a lawyer living and practicing in the US.
Have you checked your feeding troughs for lead paint?

That One Guy (profile) says:

You know things are seriously screwed up...

…when the judge’s advice essentially boils down to ‘well have you tried stalking him, or otherwise acting in a manner that would usually be considered grounds for a restraining order?’

Actually now that I think of it, that would be a pretty hilarious turn of events, if the advice of one judge gets Carreon to try and get a restraining order from another judge. Could be a good way to get him out of his house long enough to serve him though, which would just increase the crazy factor even higher.

Anonymous Coward says:

Here’s one former process server’s opinion.

He should be found in contempt of court for deliberately obstructing service. People will only do this sort of thing if the courts let them get away with it.

Service laws vary from state to state, but in MY state we were never required to wait outside somebody’s house until they came out, just to serve a summons. I did do this once because the guy was annoying me by not coming to the door even though he was home (and I happened to know he’d want to leave in a couple of hours), but it was never required. We were required to make REASONABLE attempts at personal service, after which service could be done by publishing and mailing.

However – three attempts would not be considered enough. The judge is out of line asking them to camp outside his house or wait for him at a grocery store(?!), but he’s not wrong in suggesting that they haven’t made enough of an attempt. For all they know he was out of town and the person refused because it wasn’t him. Attempt his office a few times, anyway, and his house a few more times.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:

Even better. They should be able to easily determine if he has any upcoming court dates. And even if he doesn’t, then at least they can document their efforts.

The judge is doing the plaintiff a FAVOR by refusing to allow email service. Because if he allowed it, that would be a matter which could easily be appealed later – and the guy already stated that he’d appeal forever. You certainly don’t want to give him VALID grounds for appeal.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re: Re:

Oh, and if you want to see the kind of effort that will be slam-dunk upheld on appeal:

http://caselaw.findlaw.com/az-court-of-appeals/1550757.html

In that case, “the process server either telephoned or visited the office seven times over the following two weeks, between 9:30 a.m. and 1:40 p.m., in an attempt to determine whether Burgener was there. Each time the process server was told Burgener was not in the office. Blair then authorized the process server to attempt to locate Burgener’s home address and serve him there. The process server located Burgener’s residence in Phoenix, confirming with a neighbor that Burgener indeed lived at that address, and attempted to serve him there five times over the next eight days, between 4:10 p.m. and 8:40 p.m.”

Machin Shin (profile) says:

“Public Citizen, who is handling the case pro bono, is asking for donations to help pay for hiring someone to “sit outside Carreon’s house until Carreon appears,” noting that he’s “carrying through on his promise to run up the cost of litigation.””

Too bad I don’t live in his area… I would gladly do it for free just for the fun of it…

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