Former Marine Detained, Held For A Month For Posting Conspiracy Theories, Rap Lyrics To Facebook

from the free-speech? dept

We were just discussing how some in law enforcement are overreacting to "threats" on Facebook, and someone in the comments pointed us to the case of Brandon Raub, which we had been unfamiliar with. Raub, a former Marine, posted some of his concerns about the government to his Facebook page, along with some rap lyrics. Raub's views definitely fall into what many consider to be conspiracy theory territory -- claiming 9/11 was an inside job, talking about the Illuminati controlling the world, etc. He also did make vague references to the idea that a "revolution is coming" and that a "civil war" was coming -- and even said that "I'm starting the revolution. I'm done waiting." The only directly "violent" thing he posted -- which gets covered in all of the press about Raub's situation -- is the line: "'Sharpen up my axe; I'm here to sever heads." Of course, what nearly everyone who quotes that line leaves out is that it's a lyric to the rap song Bring Me Down by the group Swollen Members.

Either way, it seems that these statements on his Facebook page resulted in him being detained in a psychiatric ward. A recent hearing ended with a decision that he needs to stay there for another 30 days. While government officials say he wasn't arrested, the video footage of law enforcement officials handcuffing him and pushing him into a police car sure looks like an arrest:
It appears that a lot of folks have been speaking out about this -- with reasonable concern over whether or not the government is monitoring (private) Facebook pages, as was the case with Raub's page. Of course, it's more likely that some of his Facebook friends were somewhat concerned and "reported" his page. There's been a lot of talk about Raub's case -- especially in libertarian circles -- and many of them do ignore some of the statements he made that could at least raise some concerns from some people, though the context matters a great deal.

That said, many others are quite reasonably concerned that a few comments involving conspiracy theories and angry rap lyrics can get one carted off by the government to a psychiatric ward for over a month. In an interview from the ward, Raub notes that he'd actually been leaning towards re-enlisting right before all of this happened.

No matter what, the situation raises some serious questions about free speech rights with regards to social networks these days. While I don't have an issue with people investigating the details of a situation if comments could reasonably be interpreted to be a possible warning sign of a threat, it's troubling how these same comments could be taken out of context and mean nothing in terms of an actual threat. The fact that he ends up in a psych ward against his and his family's own best wishes is, at the very least, a big concern.


Reader Comments (rss)

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  1.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 23rd, 2012 @ 8:23am

    Act like a nutjob, you get treated like one.

     

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  2.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 23rd, 2012 @ 8:24am

    Re:

    Too bad that doesn't work with politicians...

     

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  3.  
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    Dementia (profile), Aug 23rd, 2012 @ 8:36am

    Re:

    Except that it's well within your rights to act like a nutjob, if you so choose. As long as he didn't actually attempt to infringe on anyone's rights, or harm himself, he didn't do anything to justify this treatment.

     

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  4.  
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    mojaveburning, Aug 23rd, 2012 @ 8:38am

    Re:

    Soooo.... by using your right to free speech, you do realize that makes you a nutjob too, based on your insightful opinion.

     

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  5.  
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    Forest_GS (profile), Aug 23rd, 2012 @ 8:38am

    I saw this a couple of days ago on another site;
    http://allnewsanonymous.blogspot.com/2012/08/former-marine-indefinitely-detained.html

    I thought the site was a bit sketchy at first, but seeing one of the stories it was covering on TechDirt has convinced me of it's authenticity.

     

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  6.  
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    Curt (profile), Aug 23rd, 2012 @ 8:40am

    Well if he was a marine

    we know he's clearly violent and murderous, and has all the training he needs to become a successful terrorist, even if he does just have a sharp axe (I am completely pro-axe control, btw). I'm just surprised people like him are allowed to walk the street.

     

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  7.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 23rd, 2012 @ 8:52am

    I don't have a Facebook account. If someone pretends to be me and posts silly rants about aliens being behind 9/11 or whatever, will I end up in a psych ward?

    And what if someone's account gets broken into? What if someone's careless with their laptop, or falls for a phishing scam or something?

     

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  8.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 23rd, 2012 @ 8:54am

    Re:

    I'm not about to get a Facebook account either. Stuff like this makes it clear that if you want to be able to speak freely, you need to speak anonymously. (Or at least pseudonymously.)

     

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  9.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 23rd, 2012 @ 8:56am

    It's a fine line. Imagine if the government was made aware of his ravings and did nothing and he opened fire on shoppers in a mall a week later. Then what?

     

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  10.  
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    weneedhelp (profile), Aug 23rd, 2012 @ 9:03am

    Re: Re:

    Or Anonymous Cowards.

     

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  11.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 23rd, 2012 @ 9:04am

    Normally I agree

    Normally I agree with this blog, and the overstepping of governments and the ridiculous antics of people, but this is very slanted.

    The guy deserved to be detained. He was making repeated violent threats against people, and trying to downplay his desire for a "revolution" is being naive.

    Sure, the axe comment was a lyric, but so what? Does it mean any less because of that? He was a MARINE. Trained to kill, talking about killing and starting a civil war.

    Yeah, lets let this nut-job slide until he shows up to your next movie premiere.

     

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  12.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 23rd, 2012 @ 9:05am

    Re:

    Yes, the simple explanation here is that this man is crazy.

     

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  13.  
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    Pixelation, Aug 23rd, 2012 @ 9:10am

    Re: Normally I agree

    I was thinking the same thing. He sounds like someone interested in making headlines.

     

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  14.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 23rd, 2012 @ 9:11am

    Re:

    Then he'd be arrested for opening fire on shoppers in a mall?

    You can't apprehend people for what you think they might do sometime in the future.

     

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  15.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 23rd, 2012 @ 9:33am

    Re: Normally I agree

    Sure, the axe comment was a lyric, but so what? Does it mean any less because of that? He was a MARINE. Trained to kill, talking about killing and starting a civil war.

    I think I recall that the Columbine killers were found of quoting violent lyrics in advance of their cowardly attack.

     

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  16.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 23rd, 2012 @ 9:35am

    Re: Re:

    You can't apprehend people for what you think they might do sometime in the future.

    That is simply untrue.

     

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  17.  
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    Jake, Aug 23rd, 2012 @ 9:38am

    I'm also going to vote with giving the cops the benefit of the doubt on this one. The stuff he posted on Facebook certainly justifies sending a couple of officers over to ask him a few pointed questions and maybe encourage him to seek some help. Maybe they found stuff at his house that suggested he was planning to put his money where his mouth was?

     

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  18.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 23rd, 2012 @ 9:49am

    So what your saying is Turgid Cocks Severs Heads and a Marine goes to the Looney Bin.

     

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  19.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 23rd, 2012 @ 9:55am

    Re: Re:

    You can't apprehend people for what you think they might do sometime in the future.

    Did you even read the article and watch the video? The fact that this guy was apprehend for what others think he MIGHT DO some time in the future, proves you wrong.

     

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  20.  
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    John Doe, Aug 23rd, 2012 @ 9:57am

    Re: Re:

    Did you not see Minority Report? That movie is not fiction but actually a documentary of the future. ;)

     

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  21.  
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    Davey, Aug 23rd, 2012 @ 9:58am

    The "authorities" sure caught hell

    for "not doing something about" the Batman murderer before he did the deed. It's an impossibly fine line.

     

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  22.  
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    weneedhelp (profile), Aug 23rd, 2012 @ 10:03am

    Re: Normally I agree

    You know AC with the home depot like avatar, the same argument could have been made for the founding fathers.
    " trying to downplay his desire for a "revolution" is being naive. "

    Dont kid yourself. If the GOV keeps tightening the noose it will be inevitable, a civil war. Or do you think the sheeple will just accept being RFID implanted and every action, transaction, and word uttered be monitored and stored for future or real-time scrutiny?

     

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  23.  
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    Gimiesome (profile), Aug 23rd, 2012 @ 10:04am

    9-11

    If you watch this it adds to his story....What a wicked web we weave.

     

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  24.  
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    Mike42 (profile), Aug 23rd, 2012 @ 10:06am

    Re:

    I'm with Jake. I'd rather see him evaluated if he's crazy enough to put this stuff out in public. If he doesn't want to go nicely... but then, I think a hell of a lot of people need evaluation.

     

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  25.  
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    Jeremy, Aug 23rd, 2012 @ 10:08am

    What did they put on the warrant?

    oh right, he was just "detained", not "arrested".. well there's no law on detention is there?

    /willing to accept correction by a lawyer on that point.

     

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  26.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 23rd, 2012 @ 10:09am

    Just for the record, he was initially detained for 72 hours. During that time, a determination was made that he should be held for 30 days.

     

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  27.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 23rd, 2012 @ 10:09am

    Just for the record, he was initially detained for 72 hours. During that time, a determination was made that he should be held for 30 days.

     

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  28.  
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    Gimiesome (profile), Aug 23rd, 2012 @ 10:10am

    CIA Asset Susan Lindauer Can Now Speak 10 years after 9-11.
    http://youtu.be/iGI4jfwOmOk

     

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  29.  
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    Davey, Aug 23rd, 2012 @ 10:10am

    Different strokes

    Funny how a Republican Texas judge and Republican County Chair can spew shit like this on network tv without fear of consequences: Obama will
    try to give the sovereignty of the United States away to the United Nations. What do you think the public's going to do when that happens? We are talking civil unrest, civil disobedience, possibly, possibly civil war ... I'm not talking just talking riots here and there. I'm talking Lexington, Concord, take up arms, get rid of the dictator.


    I guess he couldn't possibly be certifiable or a threat because he's a Republican judge, not some guy on Facebook. And the bright folks around Lubbock think his judgement is so good they decided to pay him for it. He won't be going to the psych ward anytime soon. At worst he'll decide to spend more time with his family while collecting a nice fat pension for the rest of his life.

    More: http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/23/us/texas-judge-warning/index.html

     

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  30.  
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    Devils_Advocate (profile), Aug 23rd, 2012 @ 10:13am

    "Conspiracy theories" come in all forms...

    "Raub's views definitely fall into what many consider to be conspiracy theory territory -- claiming 9/11 was an inside job..."

    I would challenge anyone to explain how the "official" 9/11 Report doesn't also qualify as a conspiracy theory.

     

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  31.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 23rd, 2012 @ 10:14am

    Re: Normally I agree

    False dichotomy presented by AC. "letting him slide" is not the only option. The other option is friends, family, and concerned people taking action to help someone gain perspective on life. Police detention is completely inappropriate.

     

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  32.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 23rd, 2012 @ 10:15am

    Re: Re: Re:

    If that isn't true, why are the politicians not behind bars?

     

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  33.  
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    Bender, Aug 23rd, 2012 @ 10:17am

    Re: Well if he was a marine

    Fully automatic axes have only one use, kill all humans.

     

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  34.  
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    gorehound (profile), Aug 23rd, 2012 @ 10:17am

    Re: Different strokes

    Was Reading about that Asshole Judge too !
    Things could go South really bad in the next Year to 15 years.
    And this is how we put someone away for as long as we want to without ever seeing a Judge and being Charged with a Crime.

     

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  35.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 23rd, 2012 @ 10:29am

    Re:

    Yup, anyone who has been in the US armed forces probably need their heads examined in the first place.

    Interesting that the difference between the brave heroic types who are part of the slaughter large numbers of men,women and children in other countries and crazy conspiracy theorists is so small.

     

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  36.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 23rd, 2012 @ 10:30am

    Re: Re:

    Does that count as trolling btw?

     

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  37.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 23rd, 2012 @ 10:31am

    Re: Well if he was a marine

    " I'm just surprised people like him are allowed to walk the street."

    I presume you mean the streets of the US. I imagine you were all in favours of that kind of crazy loon walking the streets of Bahdad, Kabul, etc.

     

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  38.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 23rd, 2012 @ 10:33am

    Re: Re: Normally I agree

    The key question is, is he also religious.
    If he is, then the chances that he would be dangerously violent go way up.

     

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  39.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 23rd, 2012 @ 10:35am

    Re: Re: Different strokes

    I thought that was Guantanamo.

     

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  40.  
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    Atkray (profile), Aug 23rd, 2012 @ 10:37am

    Re: Re:

    He did infringe,

    He posted copyrighted lyrics without permission.

    After all who does the FBI work for anyways?

     

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  41.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 23rd, 2012 @ 10:40am

    someone please tell me exactly what anyone says, writes, does, listens to, reads or where they go that governments dont know about? we have a completely fucked up, totally paranoid set of governments that try to learn as much as possible from each other, while withholding as much as possible from each other and thinking that everyone is a terrorist apart from those that actually are! the way things are going, i dont think we need to worry too much about global warming wiping us out or the Mayan calendar prophecy coming true. i reckon we'll beat both to it all on our own!!

     

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  42.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 23rd, 2012 @ 10:41am

    Re: Re: Normally I agree

    >do you think the sheeple will just accept being RFID implanted and every action, transaction, and word uttered be monitored and stored for future or real-time scrutiny?

    Yes.

     

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  43.  
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    John Fenderson (profile), Aug 23rd, 2012 @ 10:55am

    Re: What did they put on the warrant?

    In the US, "detained" and "arrested" are two related, but different, things -- but they are both defined and have rules associated with them.

    In short, detentions are shorter and more limited in scope, and carry a lower burden of proof.

    However, in this case I think it's a psychiatric detention, which is a little bit different. They have cause to believe that he may present an immediate danger to others, and are detaining him pending a psychiatric evaluation.

     

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  44.  
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    John Fenderson (profile), Aug 23rd, 2012 @ 10:56am

    Re:

    In my state, then, he is no longer "detained". He is being subject to a "psychiatric hold", which is neither arrest nor detention.

     

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  45.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 23rd, 2012 @ 11:02am

    Re: Normally I agree

    Well, there was this one movie called Minority Report that suggested incarcerating people before they did stuff...

     

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  46.  
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    William Chambers, Aug 23rd, 2012 @ 11:13am

    Nope, they got it right

    The dude's quite possibly unstable. They didn't lock him up for life, they got him evaluated for his mental health which can indeed take time. Better safe then sorry and as someone who has seen the effects unknown mental illnesses can cause, He may well end up lucky that he was forced into it.

    The sad thing is that naturally people think they're perfectly fine, even if everyone in their family can see it. Usually there's nothing that can be done to even get them diagnosed.

     

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  47.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 23rd, 2012 @ 11:14am

    Re: Re:

    Of course you can. Tom Cruise did it in Minority Report and if Tom Cruise can do something that means I can too. Now, I need to go find Oprah's couch to jump on.

     

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  48.  
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    weneedhelp (profile), Aug 23rd, 2012 @ 11:15am

    Re: Re: Re: Normally I agree

    Sadly, I agree.

     

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  49.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 23rd, 2012 @ 11:27am

    Re: Nope, they got it right

    "The sad thing is that naturally people think they're perfectly fine, even if everyone in their family can see it."

    And on a wider scale, that mentally ill individual, is the united states.

     

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  50.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 23rd, 2012 @ 11:28am

    Re: Re: Different strokes

    And speaking of justification for psychiatric detention...... cue Gorehound.

     

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  51.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 23rd, 2012 @ 11:31am

    Re: Re: Normally I agree

    Being questioned by the police was a fair and rational response. The detention came after evaluating him... kind of proving that they made the right call.

    Granted its not the ONLY option, but forgive me if I don't trust a potential psychopath's "friends and family" to stop a potential disaster.

     

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  52.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 23rd, 2012 @ 11:33am

    Re: Re: Normally I agree

    He wasnt arrested, he was detained. He also wasnt charged with murderizing people. So yes, the movie is sort of relevant, but then not at all.

     

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  53.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 23rd, 2012 @ 11:34am

    Re: Re: Re:

    Reminds me of Minority Report.

     

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  54.  
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    weneedhelp (profile), Aug 23rd, 2012 @ 11:34am

    Re: Normally I agree

    Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable. - Was this guy a nut job?

    "We, the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow men who pervert the Constitution." - How about this one?

    "The right of citizens to bear arms is just one guarantee against arbitrary government, one more safeguard against the tyranny which now appears remote in America, but which historically has proved to be always possible." - Or this guy

    "As civil rulers, not having their duty to the people duly before them, may attempt to tyrannize, and as the military forces which must be occasionally raised to defend our country, might pervert their power to the injury of their fellow citizens, the people are confirmed by the article in their right to keep and bear private arms." - Or this guy?

    You need to wake up.

     

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  55.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 23rd, 2012 @ 11:37am

    Code Red!

    Conspiracy theory nut-jobs are dangerous enough.. but when they're also ex-marines with weapons training...

     

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  56.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 23rd, 2012 @ 11:52am

    Sheesh, dude is venting or being weird and eccentric. I'm thinking "is that all?"

    People seem to think, for some insane reason, that putting your venting/eccentric antics on the internet suddenly makes it more real.

    I have friends like this guy that I can totally see sharpening an axe in front of me going "I'm gonna chop people's heads off so I can appease the great dragon!" and my response will be something along the lines of "Whatever Brad, there something you want to talk about or did you forget your meds again?"

     

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  57.  
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    That One Guy (profile), Aug 23rd, 2012 @ 11:53am

    Re: Re: Re: Normally I agree

    Wait, what?

    He wasn't arrested(which would involve him being detained), he was only detained(without being arrested), and that's supposed to be a good thing?

     

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  58.  
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    weneedhelp (profile), Aug 23rd, 2012 @ 12:04pm

    Re:

    Circuit Judge W. Allan Sharrett said an involuntary commitment petition issued against Brandon J. Raub was invalid because it contained no allegation or basis to holding him.

    And there YOU go.

     

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  59.  
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    weneedhelp (profile), Aug 23rd, 2012 @ 12:07pm

    Re: Code Red!

    People that think like you are more dangerous to our liberties and freedom than any conspiracy theory nut jobs out there.

     

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  60.  
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    DMNTD, Aug 23rd, 2012 @ 12:37pm

    predict.

    This whole idea you mental nut jobs have of future crime is a crime in itself. You think there is some kind of betterment in using sci-fi to decide what someone is going to do? So the powers at be make up fan art and then say that is your future, that's what you want? I refute your future crime and DNA sabotage to "make a better race". They are parallel ideas, and warrant psych help in my opinion.

    The crackpots who took this guy in need to be reprimanded and then ostracized. It's also funny some of you point out that he is a trained killer...HILARIOUS, for all these "trained killers" are never properly brought back into society with proper treatment after going out and being exactly what the army trains them to be. I wonder why?

     

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  61.  
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    Loki, Aug 23rd, 2012 @ 12:58pm

    Re:

    Only when the "nutjob" speaks out against the entire establishment.

    If your statement were correct, Micheal Moore and Anne Coulter would have been sharing adjoining cells years ago.

     

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  62.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 23rd, 2012 @ 1:08pm

    not under arrest

    yet still stuck in an 8x10 cell? excuse me, patient room

     

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  63.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 23rd, 2012 @ 2:31pm

    Re: Normally I agree

    Your comment has made me very uncomfortable. What kind of person would say "Yeah, lets let this nut-job slide until he shows up to your next movie premiere?" Sounds like you are advocating violence. I am now calling the authorities to report you and have you held for psychiatric evaluation. I hope you understand.

     

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  64.  
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    Wally (profile), Aug 23rd, 2012 @ 2:33pm

    Re: Well if he was a marine

    Wow. I HOPE TO GOD THAT YOU REALIZE IT COULD BE POST TRAUMATIC STRESS SYNDROME. EVEN IF IT YOU'RE COMMENT WAS MEANT FOR A LAUGH I FIND IT HIGHLY INAPPROPRIATE AND DUSTASTEFUL THST YOU WOULD SAY SOMETHING LIKE THAT REGARDING SOMEONE WHO SERVED MY COUNTRY. I HOPE YOURE HAPPY ASSHOLE, YOU'VE PISSED ME OFF.....HENCE THE ALL CAPS RESPONSE.

    Now that I have had a chance to vent. Let me explain to you that the shit Marines go through behind the enemy lines is extremely detrimental to mental health. Yes he probably should have reported to the US Navy's Section 8 befor shipping out, but psychologically he doesn't think he needs to. It's called Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome. The shockwaves of the various gunshots and explosions this man has heard over the years has damaged his brain at a neurological level. So maybe you should lay off the "people like that shouldn't be allowed to walk the streets" shit. He's as human as you and I are and I wish that you would have understood that being a human yourself, but you failed at it. So please next time you ever have a thought like that, please consider that he is a fucking human being who deserves the right to be helped as a human and not to be shut away from the world because he's labeled as "crazy".

     

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  65.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 23rd, 2012 @ 2:37pm

    Re: Re:

    what stuff did he say (not publicly, his facebook was set to private) that you think was inappropriate? I've heard many people complain about what he said, and agree that he needed to be hauled out of his home for some reason, but no one has told specifically what they objected to, or what law he broke by exercising his first amendment rights. Basically it has all boiled down to "well I certainly don't share his sentiments, and the idea that someone would say such things makes me very uncomfortable. DETAIN HIM!"

    Psychiatric wards have a long history of being used to slander and discredit political prisoners.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  66.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Aug 23rd, 2012 @ 2:38pm

    Re: Re: Re:

    If this is untrue then the police need to give every one speeding tickets because they know they'll speed. I'm sur the insurance companies were behind this as well.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  67.  
    icon
    Wally (profile), Aug 23rd, 2012 @ 2:39pm

    Re: Re:

    Im glad you see it as I do. He is human and needs a human touch to cope with his neurological condition. Psychiatric hold and evaluation would be perfectly humane in the coping process.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  68.  
    icon
    Wally (profile), Aug 23rd, 2012 @ 3:01pm

    Re: Re: Re: Normally I agree

    "Granted its not the ONLY option, but forgive me if I don't trust a potential psychopath's "friends and family" to stop a potential disaster."

    Adding to this as a psychologist, you should never trust any diagnosis unless done by a professional. Friends and family are the single worst proponents in recognizing this type of neurological disorder because they are biased in how they see him. They see him from what their homeostasis allows them to see. If they don't "seem to notice" irradic behaviors it's because they were conditioned not to see them because he wasn't like that before he shipped off to the Marines.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  69.  
    identicon
    Rekrul, Aug 23rd, 2012 @ 3:19pm

    I suppose if I were to post the Aliens quote about "nuke the site from orbit" in relation to the government or even the MPAA/RIAA, I'd be tossed in Gitmo for life...

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  70.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Aug 23rd, 2012 @ 3:27pm

    Re:

    And never mind the Constitution.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  71.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Aug 23rd, 2012 @ 3:45pm

    Re:

    Then shit happens.

    Imagine if the environment were being destroyed and death and misery on a massive scale were already beginning to be realized while for decades governments around the world have done next to or worse than nothing to avert any of it. Wouldn't that be worse than a mere mall shooting?

    Imagine if the US and UK government convinced everyone to wage a war on a third world people over imaginary weapons of mass destruction, leading to the deaths of probably hundreds of thousands of people and no one did anything about that. Wouldn't that be worse than a mere mall shooting?

    When it comes to intimidating and stripping the populice of their civil rights, any hint of a threat is sufficient justification for any degree or kind of over reaction or absurdity, but when it comes to real and present threats and harms, it's all just "too hard" and we pretend that these things are inevitabilities that no one is really blameworthy for.

    Our risk perception is badly skewed so that we sense a huge risk is letting law abiding people walk free, but none in letting the state invoke the mere hint of the possibility of a potential threat as an excuse to lock away law abiding people. That's crazy-dellusional.

    We need to stop stomping on the faces of the mostly powerless as an excuse to be distracted from those who are powerful enough to do real wide spread harms at the stroke of a pen, and who having been getting away with their destructive harmful crap. Meanwhile everyone else is made to bicker and look with suspicion on each other while tossing blame and hysteria back and forth amongst ourselves.

    Moral hysterias over freak incidents involving the relatively powerless keep us from looking up and asking the really tough questions of our so called elites.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  72.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Aug 23rd, 2012 @ 3:49pm

    Re:

    I don't believe for a moment such evidence would not have been widely publicised.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  73.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Aug 23rd, 2012 @ 5:05pm

    Re:

    Do you know what research and freespeech mean?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  74.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Aug 23rd, 2012 @ 5:42pm

    Kinda old Russian empire type action eh? Putting "political" prisoners in the insane asylum.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  75.  
    icon
    btrussell (profile), Aug 23rd, 2012 @ 7:28pm

    Re: Re: Normally I agree

    All hear my warning
    Never turn your back
    On the ripper

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  76.  
    icon
    Wally (profile), Aug 23rd, 2012 @ 8:52pm

    Re: "Conspiracy theories" come in all forms...

    "I would challenge anyone to explain how the "official" 9/11 Report doesn't also qualify as a conspiracy theory."

    We have tons of recorded evidence to back up the claims that the report convey's. This includes conversations recorded on Flight 93 that was supposed to hit Cleveland.

    A lot of conspiracy theorists believed 9/11 was an inside job because of political motivation. They failed to account for the fact that there was a lot of recorded evidence and scientific tests done to confirm how the steel failed in the towers.


    For the jet fuel fire vs the steel I-Beems test. It took 30 minutes for the steel to bend like gack being stretched out.

    The Pentagon's holes should not be bigger on the inside is a favorite among them too. They fail to account for the shockwave and dabrye expanded the size of the hole in the next wall.

    As for your comment, there was irrefutable scientific evidence and recorded personal accounts of passengers compiled to create that report.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  77.  
    icon
    Wally (profile), Aug 23rd, 2012 @ 8:58pm

    Re:

    Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome.....Look it up.....you might learn something.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  78.  
    icon
    cgt (profile), Aug 23rd, 2012 @ 9:50pm

    Re: Re: Well if he was a marine

    >EVEN IF IT YOU'RE COMMENT

    You're: a contraction of "you" and "are" (example usage: you're not good at grammar)
    Your: possessive form of "you" (example usage: your teacher didn't teach you grammar)

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  79.  
    icon
    Wally (profile), Aug 23rd, 2012 @ 11:07pm

    Re: Nope, they got it right

    Mike Mansick, may I be as so bold as to suggest that this part of the comment by William Cambers be first word?:

    "The dude's quite possibly unstable. They didn't lock him up for life, they got him evaluated for his mental health which can indeed take time. Better safe then sorry and as someone who has seen the effects unknown mental illnesses can cause, He may well end up lucky that he was forced into it."


    And the second part of the same comment be the final word?:

    "The sad thing is that naturally people think they're perfectly fine, even if everyone in their family can see it. Usually there's nothing that can be done to even get them diagnosed."

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  80.  
    icon
    Wally (profile), Aug 23rd, 2012 @ 11:11pm

    Re: Re: Nope, they got it right

    *William Chambers

    Sorry for the muck up :-)

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  81.  
    icon
    Wally (profile), Aug 23rd, 2012 @ 11:20pm

    Re: Re: Nope, they got it right

    Ok, I've got a question I like answered for you specifically. Try not to take offense because of the question.

    What country are you from?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  82.  
    icon
    Wally (profile), Aug 23rd, 2012 @ 11:40pm

    Re:

    I vote this First Word.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  83.  
    icon
    Wally (profile), Aug 23rd, 2012 @ 11:41pm

    Re: Nope, they got it right

    I vote this as Final Word

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  84.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Aug 23rd, 2012 @ 11:47pm

    What, that they're using PTSD to detain people in asylums?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  85.  
    icon
    Mike Masnick (profile), Aug 24th, 2012 @ 12:05am

    Re:

    Imagine if the government was made aware of his ravings and did nothing and he opened fire on shoppers in a mall a week later.

    So according to you the only choices are "do nothing" and "lock him up for a month"?

    Some of the adults in the room realize that there's a wide spectrum of responses that could be taken, and (as expressed in the article you clearly did not read) believe that perhaps it should be further in one direction on that spectrum, not all the way at the extreme end.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  86.  
    icon
    Wally (profile), Aug 24th, 2012 @ 12:23am

    Re: Re: Re: Well if he was a marine

    I was THAT pissed off, but I'm sure I made no mistake when I calmed down. Thanks though I do apreciate your help :-)

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  87.  
    icon
    Wally (profile), Aug 24th, 2012 @ 12:26am

    Re: Re: Re: Well if he was a marine

    *....EVEN IF YOUR COMMENT...

    :-)

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  88.  
    icon
    Wally (profile), Aug 24th, 2012 @ 12:29am

    Re: Re:

    Just to clarify here..... Do you realize your snowflake of an avatar matches the comment directly above?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  89.  
    icon
    Wally (profile), Aug 24th, 2012 @ 12:32am

    Re: Re:

    I retract my vote/suggestion for this being first word and move to my original request/suggestion to my comment about William Chambers' comment :-)

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  90.  
    icon
    Wally (profile), Aug 24th, 2012 @ 12:48am

    Re:

    I will be happy to answer your question as a professional ^_^.

    He has to be evaluated and monitored. It takes a bit of time to get a diagnosis, especially when a patient refuses to cooperate. So the detainment is mostly behavioral observation. It's not like he's going to be there for years as well.

    I could point to the copy of DSM-IV that I have but The Mayo Clinic website gives it in plain English:

    http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/post-traumatic-stress-disorder/DS00246/DSECTION=symptom s
    Feel free to read that at your own leisure :-)

    There are 3 types of PTSD but the one I would like to focus on is hyperarousal/anxiety:

    Symptoms of anxiety and increased emotional arousal may include:

    Irritability or anger
    Overwhelming guilt or shame
    Self-destructive behavior, such as drinking too much
    Trouble sleeping
    Being easily startled or frightened
    Hearing or seeing things that aren't there



    So maybe someone saw some of these behaviors and decided to help him out to get evaluated. Point is that he can now start treatment before it gets worse :-)

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  91.  
    identicon
    Jake, Aug 24th, 2012 @ 5:48am

    Re: Re:

    Depends what the evidence is; according to the Huffington Post article the local police thought this was serious enough to warrant bringing him to the attention of the FBI. Even if they've apparently determined that Raub himself is no threat to society, he might have been in contact with persons of similar political views who were a bit more proactive about implementing them, and the FBI is hardly going to release details of an ongoing investigation to the media.

    Some of the comments on the HuffPo article are claiming he got a court order to release him, though, so who knows?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  92.  
    icon
    Wally (profile), Aug 24th, 2012 @ 8:52am

    Re: Re: Re:

    Not one bit. I'm proud of you ^_^

    However I do find your final paragraph a tad misguided.

    PTSD symptoms can start to appear up to 3 months after a traumatic event. The problem is that they send the unstable people (such as the man to what is a Section 8 classification. Mr. Raub is showing signs of PTSD. It's common amongst servicemen and women who have been in combat duty for too long a time. So before he went in, he was fine. When he ended his tour of duty, he seemed fine. After 3 months, depending on what types of trauma they've gone through in their tour of duty, certain signs of it show up.

    In his case it was Anxiety/Hyprearousal. Some of those symptoms include irrationalty and irritability.

    Glad to help you gain a bit of perspective :-)

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  93.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Aug 24th, 2012 @ 9:06am

    Re: Re:

    But it wasnt the extreme end. If he was ARRESTED and charged for the comments then yes, that would be extreme. But being questioned about clearly violent threats? How is that not an appropriate response?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  94.  
    icon
    Wally (profile), Aug 24th, 2012 @ 12:10pm

    Re: Re: Re:

    Curt's last sentence was extremely inappropriate.



    Judging by the video alone that he has a mental illness. So to say "I'm just surprised people like him are allowed to walk the street," is sort of a jibe against those who cannot help doing some of the crazy things he was doing.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  95.  
    identicon
    Robert, Aug 24th, 2012 @ 4:22pm

    Re:

    There is a world of justice and law between acting like a nut and writing like one, guess which side of the nut job line you are on.
    Increasing levels of censorship, with soviet era mental health as a new punishment for critiquing government.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  96.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Aug 24th, 2012 @ 5:26pm

    Re: Act like a nutjob, you get treated like one.

    The people acting like "nutjobs" are the people who think it is OK to cart a young guy off and lock him up for expressing his opinions

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  97.  
    icon
    ECA (profile), Aug 24th, 2012 @ 6:23pm

    I wonder

    Ever wonder about Our first rebels??

    Freedom starts with Words..DEALS with actions..and then becomes the END result.

    Our forefathers didnt want a war, and tried to get away from it, but When Britain sent its troops..there was little else to do..

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  98.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Aug 25th, 2012 @ 5:50pm

    bullshit

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  99.  
    icon
    Biffbitrot (profile), Aug 25th, 2012 @ 7:24pm

    marine vet detained outrage

    WORDS ARE NOT BULLETS. I grew up listening to a line that became a cliche from overuse. - "I may hate what you say but I'll fight to the death to defend your right to say it!". That was THE American anthem. What happened? What was done to this man is OUTRAGEOUS! It's what the old Soviet Union used to do to political dissenters - have we forgotten that already? Have we completely abrogated our rights as American citizens? When is enough going to be enough? Wake up people. (Somewhere Thomas Jefferson's body is spinning so hard it's likely to pop up in Tienanmen square.) For starters, how about a detailed, exacting, legal definition of what actually constitutes an act of terrorism as opposed to whatever offends some LEO (law enforcement officer) or bureaucrat's delicate sensibility?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  100.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Aug 26th, 2012 @ 2:12pm

    Re: Re:

    Or in the vernacular, he was pink slipped. (Involuntary Psychiatric Hold for those who've never dealt with them.) After the initial 72 hours, they can be held with another 'pink slip' for an additional 7 days, then 30, then a court has to be convinced they need to be held until the doctor feels they are no longer a menace to others or themselves.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  101.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Aug 26th, 2012 @ 2:15pm

    Re: not under arrest

    Only extremely violent patients are held in their rooms. Otherwise they must be given free access to the common areas. Generally speaking, participation in group activities isn't even mandatory.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  102.  
    icon
    Travis Miller (profile), Aug 31st, 2012 @ 4:54pm

    Re: Re: Re:

    Just to clarify here..... Do you know what pseudo means?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  103.  
    icon
    Travis Miller (profile), Aug 31st, 2012 @ 5:10pm

    Re: Re: "Conspiracy theories" come in all forms...

    I can tell you struggle with what words mean. The official report is their theory of what happened. The report lays out a conspiracy that those criminals carried out. It is a conspiracy theory.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  104.  
    identicon
    Clouverse, Aug 26th, 2013 @ 11:21am

    But Then Why...

    Would a marine be detained for exercising his freedom of speech?

    Abandon you assumptions. Stick to your convictions. Clouverse.

    http://clouverse.com

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]


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