RSS
Why Sita Sings The Blues Is Perfectly Legal In Germany, But You Still Can't Watch It On YouTube
from the hello,-gema dept
Nina Paley, who regularly writes for Techdirt (as well as plenty of other publications) passed along this video she put up about how her movie, Sita Sings the Blues is blocked by YouTube in Germany, thanks to GEMA, the music collection society in Germany.
Since I know a little bit about the ongoing fight between GEMA and YouTube in Germany, I asked Nina if it was okay to do a post, discussing some of the details. We've written about GEMA a few times before, and last year, I went to Berlin and interviewed YouTube's Patrick Walker on stage at PopKomm/All2gethernow, specifically discussing YouTube's ongoing fight with GEMA. The details are a little different than what Nina suggests in the video, though she's absolutely correct that this is very much GEMA's fault. Even though Nina has a paid-in-full license with the various music companies that say displaying/performing her movie for free in Germany is entirely legal, GEMA has taken a ridiculous hardline stance with regards to YouTube. It believes that YouTube needs to pay it ridiculous sums of money for every video on the site that includes any GEMA-licensed music.
Other collection societies around the world have made agreements with YouTube, and worked out reasonable royalty rates for performances. Except GEMA. If I remember correctly, GEMA may be the only major remaining collection society which has not worked out a royalty rate with YouTube, and instead has been fighting a battle in German courts against YouTube. Because of that, and because of some clearly ridiculous court rulings, which suggest that YouTube (rather than its users) are liable for any infringement on the site, YouTube is blocking all videos that it comes across that include GEMA music.
Thus, I believe that the reason Sita Sings the Blues has been taken down is not, as Nina suggests, because of a direct takedown notice by GEMA (though, that's possible), but more likely because of YouTube needing to avoid liability from crazy German court rulings and GEMA's overinflated belief in what a "reasonable" royalty rate would be. Now, notice the key part here: the artist in this case wants the video to be online. Nina is pissed off that it's offline. She's paid quite a bit of money to the various music publishing entities to have the rights to show the movie worldwide, and the one blocking that is GEMA.
This is not an uncommon occurrence in Germany, unfortunately. Because of the way the laws work in Germany, those who have deals with GEMA effectively give up all of their own rights on such things. When I was in Germany, I spoke with multiple artists who were freaking out because they couldn't give away their own music, because GEMA didn't allow it. Aritst would show me their official webpage, without free music, and then their "secret, unofficial" web page with the music they wanted people to download. GEMA, which seems to be run by people entirely out of touch with how music works today, simply insists that no one can give away music for free... because then GEMA doesn't get to collect money. Furthermore, for those who try to get around GEMA and used alternative licenses, GEMA has been known to ignore such licenses, and insist that people still need to abide by GEMA's rules.
This is not a healthy situation. You basically have an out of touch bureaucracy that thinks it gets to set all the rules, even if they don't match the reality in the marketplace. Because of that, artists are suffering. And the fact that YouTube is blocking Sita..., despite it being fully licensed and perfectly legal in Germany, should really wake some people up to the fact that GEMA is not helping artists at all. It's stifling them massively.
Other collection societies around the world have made agreements with YouTube, and worked out reasonable royalty rates for performances. Except GEMA. If I remember correctly, GEMA may be the only major remaining collection society which has not worked out a royalty rate with YouTube, and instead has been fighting a battle in German courts against YouTube. Because of that, and because of some clearly ridiculous court rulings, which suggest that YouTube (rather than its users) are liable for any infringement on the site, YouTube is blocking all videos that it comes across that include GEMA music.
Thus, I believe that the reason Sita Sings the Blues has been taken down is not, as Nina suggests, because of a direct takedown notice by GEMA (though, that's possible), but more likely because of YouTube needing to avoid liability from crazy German court rulings and GEMA's overinflated belief in what a "reasonable" royalty rate would be. Now, notice the key part here: the artist in this case wants the video to be online. Nina is pissed off that it's offline. She's paid quite a bit of money to the various music publishing entities to have the rights to show the movie worldwide, and the one blocking that is GEMA.
This is not an uncommon occurrence in Germany, unfortunately. Because of the way the laws work in Germany, those who have deals with GEMA effectively give up all of their own rights on such things. When I was in Germany, I spoke with multiple artists who were freaking out because they couldn't give away their own music, because GEMA didn't allow it. Aritst would show me their official webpage, without free music, and then their "secret, unofficial" web page with the music they wanted people to download. GEMA, which seems to be run by people entirely out of touch with how music works today, simply insists that no one can give away music for free... because then GEMA doesn't get to collect money. Furthermore, for those who try to get around GEMA and used alternative licenses, GEMA has been known to ignore such licenses, and insist that people still need to abide by GEMA's rules.
This is not a healthy situation. You basically have an out of touch bureaucracy that thinks it gets to set all the rules, even if they don't match the reality in the marketplace. Because of that, artists are suffering. And the fact that YouTube is blocking Sita..., despite it being fully licensed and perfectly legal in Germany, should really wake some people up to the fact that GEMA is not helping artists at all. It's stifling them massively.
Reader Comments
Subscribe: RSS
View by: Time | Thread
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
Wow. I'm speechless. And to answer DannyB, must be because they are NAZI? Offense intended.
Yet another (out of several) example why copyright needs deep reform everywhere to actually protect the artists and allow non-commercial sharing.
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
That's if you limit it to comments. Otherwise the record is at comment number 0, i.e. the original article.
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
My understanding is that German society, or a part of it, is currently downtrodden in the arts department. They're having trouble understanding why. They used to have a glorious creative industry, but they believe the creative industry around the world is being unfairly controlled by justice evading white-people. These J.E.W.s, so the theory goes, have controlled the marketplace in creative works such that the German people specifically are being prejudized against.
Now, GEMA is working to reconstruct German creative industry through a stepped process, called the Reconstructing Enduring and Interesting Creativity in the Hinterland. Through this REICH, GEMA will first directly control all inbound culture that in anyway might utilize German culture for the enrichment of outside J.E.W.s. Once this has been controlled, any invading J.E.W.s found within Germany will be expelled. Those refusing to leave will be rounded up, placed onto trains, and shipped off to Artistic Reeducation Camps. It has yet been unclear what exactly they will be doing in that camp.
Italian collection societies are reportedly interested in this program. French musicians surrendered prematurely six months ago.
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
Yeah, the French had a Maginot contract in place, but GEMA went around it.
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
probably through a collection agency in Belguim
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re:
Hey, me too!
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
Fix what, exactly? Is Nina supposed to go convince GEMA to stop being stupid?
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: "Fix what, exactly?"
The problem that you just outlined. Didn't you explain it fully and accurately? Or is this your usual aggressive challenge to dodge answering reasonable suggestions?
"Is Nina supposed to go convince GEMA to stop being stupid?"
No, figure out how to get around it. One of the recurrent themes here is the notion that when blocked by bureaucracy or pesky laws, the valiant hackers of "teh internets" will find a way to dodge, only better. Seems to me that your sharp retort only points up how difficult problems are in practice.
Of course, what you need is a "free" distribution system. I've no suggestions on that, but will point out that somehow the marginal cost to distribute this movie isn't zero unless someone other than Nina Paley pays for bandwidth.
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: "Fix what, exactly?"
Did you watch Nina's video? She's already solved that part, offering Sita up on various bittorrent sites for the world to download. None of that makes the stupidity of removing it from YouTube for those that wish to enjoy it that way....
"Seems to me that your sharp retort only points up how difficult problems are in practice."
Seems to me you don't know what you're talking about, which will go on the list of The Least Shocking Things Of 2011. Germans can get it via bittorrent. The issue is that they shouldn't HAVE to go that route, because this GEMA shit is stupid, since Nina already licensed the music for the movie.
"Of course, what you need is a "free" distribution system."
Yes, if only we had such a mechanism....
"I've no suggestions on that"
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAH!
"but will point out that somehow the marginal cost to distribute this movie isn't zero unless someone other than Nina Paley pays for bandwidth."
And that's why this YouTube crap is stupid, because the cost to Nina to distribute via YouTube WOULD be zero as a marginal cost, but GEMA, supposedly an organization designed to protect artists, is mucking up the works.
On a side note, Blue, have you used massive amounts of cocaine in the past? Your paranoid wramblings and quixotic quests of anger remind me of a strung out Charlie Sheen....
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: "Fix what, exactly?"
he is like Daryl, but with paragraphs
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: "Fix what, exactly?"
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: "Fix what, exactly?"
Now, there is a problem. German people should not be forced to go to legal route B just because legal route A is being blocked unfairly. Think of it this way: You want ice cream. There's a corner store down the block, but every time you try to enter that store I punch you in the face. You complain, but someone else tells you it's okay because there's a grocery store with the same ice cream 3 miles away.
Would you not have a problem w/that?
You're my boy, Blue....
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: "Fix what, exactly?"
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: "Fix what, exactly?"
Instant streaming vs. download, wait, and watch.
In any case, if we're arguing over the miles in the analogy, I fear we've missed the point....
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: "Fix what, exactly?"
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: "Fix what, exactly?"
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: "Fix what, exactly?"
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
The only other way to fix a broken government is to replace it. Are you encouraging her to incite a revolution? That's a serious crime in most nations, though not unexpected logic coming from a troll.
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
Getting on with German authorities, German newspapers, German press, things like that might have a hope. Otherwise, the yelling about it (or making a video about it) is sort of meaningless.
As for inciting a revolution, all I can say is she isn't inciting much of anything except perhaps a few snickers at this point. It seems the motto is "ready, fire, aim".
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
well, i know i ain't laughin..... and i know i ain't the only one, her boldness gives this bitter freetard some hope in a world of ever diminishing freedoms
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
Yeah, nothing has EVER gained traction because someone made a YouTube video of it...
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
Exactly. Because by putting a video online no one in Germany will ever see it. And no one outside of Germany might be able to do something in Germany to help the situation.
It's a fail. Getting a bunch of people on a blog (targetting the US, as Mike Masnick has recently said) upset about something happening in Germany sure isn't going to do much.
Yeah, because the video can and does only appear on this blog.
Getting on with German authorities, German newspapers, German press, things like that might have a hope. Otherwise, the yelling about it (or making a video about it) is sort of meaningless.
And how do you think those German folks find out about it? How about a video that's getting lots of attention?
Nah, impossible.
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re:
Now that you mentioned that, I suddenly realized that it doesn't matter. 90% of the germs do not understand english anyway. So, assuming that Nina's stuff is in English, she won't have an audience at all, even if it were accesible on youtube in Germany.
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
I had a similar experience (though my experience was mainly in the Frankfurt/Mainz area.) Even those that didn't speak English knew enough English to point me to someone who did speak fluent English. I don't think Mr. Oizo has ever been to Germany or Europe for that matter...my general observation in Europe is that most people I met there knew at least two languages, and many of them knew enough to be conversational with me, even if it was very basic. Germany isn't that far away from England.
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_English-speaking_population
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
As to my claim: I stand behind it, allthough there is a difference between young and old people. Young people know that they should learn English and want to, but have little access to it. Elderly look at english as something they might consider, but still believe there is nothing wrong with a german-only education. In general they are so bad at it that one can truly say that they don't speak English.
Just for illustration: even Stargate and Startrek (which is likely the market where most English is understood), is dubbed in German. Actually, television/radio is german only, everything is dubbed.
What does tell you that about the market ?
PS: I live in Germany.
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
What does tell you that about the market ?
It tells me that they dub really well. All this says about the market is that Germans prefer communicating and consuming information in their native language, not that they don't understand anything else.
P.S.: I am German.
P.P.S.: I'm almost offended.
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
"
Comments like this just reinforce the common opinion that most Americans are ignorant of the world outside their country.
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Would it kill you to get to know countries before you criticise them? I've met Germans with a higher standard of English than some Americans I've spoken to, I believe that it's mandatory at many school and according to Wikipedia 56% of the population speak English ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_English-speaking_population )
"she won't have an audience at all"
I'll assume this is as accurate as your other assertions, and congratulate Nina on her new audience.
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
Given the digital nature of the 'problem,' that's a fair assessment.
You're just not realizing how effective that is.
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
Online discussions never look sillier than when one of the posters attempts to utilize internet slang in the middle of an otherwise serious post.
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
http://www.spiegel.de/netzwelt/web/0,1518,774616,00.html
What were you saying, again?
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re:
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
Unbelievable...
And they have the stones to claim they're doing it all to protect the artist', all the while ignoring the artists' wishes and screwing them out of payment (if not stealing it outright).
(Interesting that the typical shills around here have been conspicuously silent on that point, isn't it?)
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
Best part...
The following quote is priceless:
When you have Sony pointing out how much you misunderstand the internet, you *know* something is wrong.
It's like being called a luddite by the Amish.
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Best part...
That's GEMA hitting the bottom of the well.
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Best part...
is probably what you meant :-)
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
GEMA
N for Entertainment Nazis
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: GEMA
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
Sue in US courts?
If you win, you could have any GEMA exec detained if they come to the US, might wake them up...
Chris.
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Sue in US courts?
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Sue in US courts?
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Sue in US courts?
Lawsuits don't solve problems, they perpetuate them.
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Sue in US courts?
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Sue in US courts?
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Sue in US courts?
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
GEMA on Twitter
Disclaimer: I'm Mexican, I live in Germany, I suffer GEMA on a daily basis.
From @Mematematica
Hey @GEMAdialog can you pls clarify this? ich verstehe nicht MT @ninapaley #GEMA censored my movie in Germany! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpTPTQ3e0Jg&feature=share
From @GEMAdialog
@Mematematica @ninapaley GEMA did not "censor" nor initiate a blocking of your video. Please contact @Youtube about this.
From @Mematematica
@GEMAdialog @ninapaley @Youtube Vielen Dank für Ihre Antwort. May I inquire also about the blocked @playing4change video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55s3T7VRQSc
From @GEMAdialog
@Mematematica Only twelve musical works are affected, so it is more than likely that this video was not blocked by GEMA as well.
From @GEMAdialog
"Sita sings the Blues": Sperrung nicht von #GEMA veranlasst http://netzpolitik.org/2011/gema-zensiert-meinen-film-in-deutschland/#comment-429754 #Youtube
Now, I have not located any GEMA statements about this "twelve musical works" (Other than that twitt) in english (my german sucks). So I'm at a loss here about GEMA stand (We all know Youtube's one). I will ask again tomorrow, see if I get an answer.
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
Sounds a bit like APRA
I don't think they are quite as bad as GEMA sound though. APRA must have worked something out with youtube... either that or they have not found youtube yet!
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
Nazis alive and well in Germany
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
Nina should just follow Patrick McKay's "Fair Use School"-Video to oppose to youtube's blocking 'Sita'.
Just stating that she's the rights holder of both audio and video should be enough to get the video back online.
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
rights & licenses
Only if you piss GEMA off and their lawyers contact youtube on your behalf things will probably start to get complicated. Never heard that this has happened to an artist, though.
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: rights & licenses
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
LOL. Sounds EXACTLY like corporate America.
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
not the first case i've heard of this
I also have a friend who has all of the music videos released on his label blocked by YouTube/GEMA even though he doesn't even use them as a collecting agency! He's written to YouTube several times about it but they haven't lifted the blocks.
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
Yea... add me to the list
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Yea... add me to the list
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Yea... add me to the list
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Yea... add me to the list
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
RE: GEMA
and secondly when you say that "GEMA... insists that no one can give away music for free... " - what do you mean by "no one" - I presume you are referring to GEMA-reigstered artists here, right?
I am also looking for a list of GEMA's top five percent of members that are being paid the majority of loyalties it collects - can anyone suggest a good way to access this information?
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
Add Your Comment