DailyDirt: Thanks For The Free Energy, Sun
from the urls-we-dig-up dept
The world economy still largely depends on fossil fuels for energy, and nuclear energy isn’t exactly popular after decades of use. Until we figure out nuclear fusion, if we want to reduce our dependence on hydrocarbons, we’re going to need to ramp up renewable energy sources from solar and wind. Solar energy capacity seems to be growing robustly, but apparently, there are still some bugs to work out.
- Solar farms in California are producing “too much” electricity in the spring and fall — and the solution so far is to just turn them off. This problem of “excess” renewable energy isn’t expected to get better as more solar energy is added to the grid, but hopefully, the state of California will figure out a better way to balance the electrical supply and demand (such as exporting the solar power to nearby states or storing the energy in large batteries). [url]
- Los Angeles might have some problems with blackouts this summer due to that enormous gas leak that was only somewhat recently plugged. That natural gas leak shut down one out of 17 natural gas facilities in the area, but the other facilities may need to be taken offline for safety inspections — and unfortunately, renewable energy sources and other power plants can’t handle the peak electricity demands during hot LA summers. [url]
- China has become the nation with the highest amount of solar energy producing capacity — 43.2 gigawatts — compared to 2nd place Germany at 38.4 gigawatts and the US with 27.8 gigawatts. Solar capacity numbers don’t exactly translate into how much energy is expected to be produced (or actually will be produced), but more is presumably better. [url]
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Filed Under: blackouts, energy, fossil fuels, natural gas, renewable energy, solar, solar farms
Comments on “DailyDirt: Thanks For The Free Energy, Sun”
Frustrating
“Solar farms in California are producing “too much” electricity in the spring and fall — and the solution so far is to just turn them off. This problem of “excess” renewable energy isn’t expected to get better as more solar energy is added to the grid, but hopefully, the state of California will figure out a better way to balance the electrical supply and demand (such as exporting the solar power to nearby states or storing the energy in large batteries). [url]’
Decades ago the Germans had the means to convert electricity to fossil fuels. Low yield, but workable.
There’s a hobbyist guy in the States that uses surplus electricity from his cells to liquify hydrogen and store it underground. Yes it’s leaky, but it’s workable.
You can do better, California
Re: Hydrogen
Have invisible flames.
It is immensely dangerous to put the flame out, as this quickly causes an extremely explosive mix with air.
It does not smell.
It leaks through most metal, and it causes most metal to be brittle by diffusing between the microscopic grains the metal consists of.
If it is stored cold it must be chilled or the pressure start to rise, and the cold temperature also causes metal to become brittle
If it is stored pressured any valve or container that fails cause a serious incident. And additional temperature causes additional pressure.
And it is massively explosive, most mixtures with air does not just burn, but creates a FAE. Mixtures would blow up an entire house or a factory, and have. And will again.
The incumbents focus on hydrogen is an attempt to distract us.
There are systems that can take surplus solar energy and convert it to hydrogen using electrolysis and water from a lake or ocean. At night, during the winter, etc., the hydrogen can be run through a fuel cell, which has the effect of using that surplus solar power after the fact.
“Watts” Are Units Of Power, Not Energy
Even the original article was careful to refer to those numbers as amounts of “power” or “solar capacity”, not “energy”.
Re: “Watts” Are Units Of Power, Not Energy
Larry, you need to reread what was written.
Now, try again.
Natural gas?
Why don’t they just shut down the natural gas plants where there is excess electricity being produced? Natural gas plants can be stopped and started quickly.
Perhaps the real issue is political, not technical.
Re: Natural gas?
“Why don’t they just shut down the natural gas plants where there is excess electricity…”
This was my first thought as well. Seems like a no brainer and a good reason to have solar. Perhaps an expert could explain why they are doing something this stupid on the surface.
Re: Re: Natural gas?
It’s because it’s not stupid or political – Solar doesn’t work at night and doesn’t produce enough power during the evenings when everyone is home.
It’s cheaper to switch off the solar than to go through and manage daily shutdown/startup cycles for Gas or Coal powerplants.
The solar power could be used to pump water uphill at times of excess and release it to produce power later, or in those places where there are better uses for water, to compress air instead.
Re: Why don't they just shut down the natural gas plants where there is excess electricity being produced?
Perhaps because they are run by different companies, not by the state.
Capitalistic free-market competition versus Socialistic central planning, you know …
Re: Re: Why don't they just shut down the natural gas plants where there is excess electricity being produced?
“Capitalistic free-market competition”
As if this actually exists.
Re: Synchrony
It’s clearly not technical
It is partly corruption, partly a result of superPAC contribution and lobbying, and partly because commercial monopoly power over infrastructure breed abuse.
An artificial low supply makes it easier to blackmail the populace. This makes the profit soar by not supplying sufficient energy.
Citizens in USA get abused in so many ways. Another example of abuse by constricting supply is AIDS medicine. Medicine that costs less than 365 dollars pr. year in India for medicine with higher consistent quality, and more than 10.000 in the land of the flayed.
Solar panels is marvelously well suited to handle the summer peak demand, as the consumption and supply change in synchrony.
Even the etymology of the word synchrony drives this home: From Ancient Greek σύν (sún, “with”) + χρόνος (khrónos, “time”).
Re: Re: Synchrony
Or maybe according to the article where they describe the process of cycling a natural gas plant as taking several hours. You know, on time scales much too slow to react to the solar fluctuation.
Negative price
In the UK, companies operating the generators bid to provide electricity into the pool.
There have been times where the generator companies had bid negative prices just so they can keep their plants running.
It is not a technical problem
NV Energy receive 75% of the income from the residential solar panels in Nevada, without paying for the panels. That is 75% gross, without paying a dime. NV Energy claimed that they should get someone else’s income because they would have to act like a battery for the solar panels; a claim that is a lie. The use of electricity is much higher when the sun cause air conditioners to run, and the panels produce their electricity at the same time, in synchrony. Less storage capacity and less peek power would be needed with ample residential photovoltaics.
Those how invested suddenly got their income slashed to a quarter. They got to keep the expenses though, all of it. Residents, schools and libraries were victims.
It caused Solar City to leave Nevada and lay off all employees.
This makes USA into a kind of a joke.
Errata
s/how/who/g
right?
So the engineering for the plant was incorrect? Built for the warm days, not the hot or cold? Or could it just be a seasonal problem? The sun passes by this location inconviently, at the wrong times of the year? I wonder if these sun farms, notice anything different about the weather around them now. But that is counterintuitive, who cares about downwind from anything anymore. Have the weather patterns changed? You absorb energy here, what happens there? I haven’t seen studies yet, from either side, they are too busy blaming each other for the rising costs of energy.
Capitalism doesn’t want Earth to fully rely on solar energy.
We must destroy the Sun because we cannot compete we free!
UK government's
The UK government’s decision to provide free VAT on solar energy is a welcome and important step towards a greener future. It is a positive signal to the public that the government is taking climate change seriously and is prepared to invest in renewable energy sources. This move will help to encourage more people to switch to solar energy, reducing their carbon footprint and helping to protect our environment. It will also provide a much-needed boost to the renewable energy sector, creating new jobs and economic opportunities. All in all, this is a great move by the UK government, and we hope that other countries will follow suit.