Overhype

by Mike Masnick




Online Casinos To Congress: Thanks For The Publicity!

from the best-advertisement-ever! dept

With the House of Representatives moving yesterday to try to ban online casinos in the US, you'd think that would be bad news for those casinos -- many of whom admit the majority of their customers are from the US. Not so, apparently. The stock market has driven the stock of many of these online casinos up following the news of the bill being passed. It seems that investors realize that, not only does this have no chance of actually going anywhere, the discussion about online casinos has only acted as a ton of free publicity for the sites, perhaps encouraging some people to sign up and play now, just in case the sites are forced to go away.

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  • identicon
    dorpus, 12 Jul 2006 @ 3:01pm

    Still Effective

    If the casinos are forced to operate out of backward countries, then there is nothing to stop them from cheating customers. In the long run, customers won't trust overseas casinos, and online gambling will decrease.

    So how's that Reno debt going, Mike?

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Greg, 12 Jul 2006 @ 3:19pm

    The casinos are already operating out of "backward" countries, and no one seems to care. They aren't cheating anyone because there's more money in building a legit business.

    The ad hominem attack was classy, by the way.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      dorpus, 12 Jul 2006 @ 3:36pm

      Re:

      The casinos are already operating out of "backward" countries, and no one seems to care. They aren't cheating anyone because there's more money in building a legit business.

      Could the other people at the poker table really be agents working for the casino? Could they see your hand? Are they even real people, or the super-smart poker bots that can beat any human? Rumors like this are bound to arise.

      An enterprising reporter could write a story about the Chechen mafia running an online casino out of the Bahamas, who then hire Russian thugs to fly into the US on tourist visas to go break the arms of customers who don't pay up.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        WirelessGuy, 12 Jul 2006 @ 3:45pm

        Re: Re:

        are you speaking from personal experience dorpus? I for one play online poker at least 3-4 times a week. You cannot play without paying upfront. As other stories are talking about social sites, why is it that people migrate to one aspect of life that only affects other people? I get sick of people making me smoke outside, telling me that alcohol is bad for me, unless it is one glass of red wine, that gambling is horrible.

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        Anonymous Coward, 12 Jul 2006 @ 3:48pm

        Re: Re:

        Wow dorpus, thats a dumb comment. Why would the online casino bother having agents at each table? To tell the truth, that would probably cost too much money to be worthwhile. Seems to me they write some software, and the money just rolls in on its own. The sites I've seen make you pay ahead of time (no need for thugs) and they take a cut of each pot of money (no need for them to play or participate in any of the games). All they have to do is provide a convenient and fun way to play online, and the money makes itself.

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • identicon
          dorpus, 12 Jul 2006 @ 4:03pm

          Re: Re: Re:

          Why would the online casino bother having agents at each table? To tell the truth, that would probably cost too much money to be worthwhile.

          How about customers who lost big, and are willing to cut a deal with the house? Can you say for sure that insider deals are not occurring at the casinos where you blow your money?

          The sites I've seen make you pay ahead of time (no need for thugs) and they take a cut of each pot of money (no need for them to play or participate in any of the games). All they have to do is provide a convenient and fun way to play online, and the money makes itself.

          What about customers who manipulate credit cards by calling it "stolen" or "illegal charges" or whatever? Are businesses ever satisfied with having a steady revenue, or does the business culture dictate that they grow ever greedier, taking greater risks?

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Aaron, 12 Jul 2006 @ 4:19pm

      Re:

      Online casinos or oil....

      Wherever there is money, the U.S. will have its fingers in it!

      Its money.

      This is all they want. Find better things to pick on besides an online casino. Go find Osama.

      Make sure you spend the same amount of time and money into that as you are making sure online casinos go down.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Drama2Sell, 12 Jul 2006 @ 3:20pm

    Online Casinos Should be Regulated

    What the hell congress? Just regulate the online casinos.

    I for one, would certainly feel better placing bets with a Harrahs.com or Bellagio.com, then JimmysWorldofWinnings.com

    And think of the taxes! No, no, instead you try to pass a bill to "outlaw" them. Really, its quite brilliant. Why not just outlaw alcohol as well---oh, wait that was tried, wasn't it....didn't end well as I recall.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    WirelessGuy, 12 Jul 2006 @ 3:36pm

    People just don't realize why do they

    The push behind this ban is not the republicans trying to win votes for moral stance, this is being pushed by the land based casinos. The real problem they face is that they are limited to the States that they operate, while internet casinos can cross these boundaries. The federal government would then have to allow federal based legislation which then would bypass state regulatory processes and kill markets such as River based in the midwest and Mississippi. Would you rather travel to a city like Chicago to gamble or Aurora 60 miles to the west? Aurora would get killed. So would small town casinos in Shreveport if gambling were allowed in Dallas. You will never see it federally regulated, the government is safer keeping it state based. Therefore it is impossible for the government to allow online by state casinos that crosses state lines.

    So they look good for trying to kill it, get money from the lobby groups of the land based casinos, and all the while the consumers are the ones who end up losing no matter what.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    I, for one, 12 Jul 2006 @ 4:00pm

    Damaged moralising assholes

    What amuses me is that this is a "moral" position.

    Sure, gambling is slightly stupid, potentially dangerous, potentially addictive, just like much else in life.

    Nobody has any problem with National Lotteries or charity competition events do they?

    Nor do any of these American Congress people have any moral compunctions over blowing sleeping children to bits with high explosives, starving people to death with seige embargos, toppling legitimate governments, kidnap, torture ... you name it, if its considered a sin then the American Congress has approved it in some measure during the last 10 years.

    In fact you could say these people are singularly immoral. A more enlightened and passionate observer might just cut to the chase and point out that these are plain evil little shits, appologies for human beings who never did anything "moral" in their futile little lives.

    While I wouldn't go so far myself it brings a smile to my face to hear people associted with that group attempt to moralise.

    Don't they realise that their reputations are so sullied by scandal, lies and corruption? Don't they realise that thier words are bankrupt and that nobody takes seriously people who sanction murder, torture and abuse of all kinds, then stand up and start to talk about morality?

    Sorry this isn't a technical analysis, it's not really a "tech" story. It's just more of the same stuff about a bunch of "holier than thou" pricks who are taking out the repression of their empoverished childhoods on the rest of the world.

    The only question is, when are we going to round them up and force them to account for the discrepencies in their positions? When will they get the therapy and help they really need?

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Louis, 13 Jul 2006 @ 6:23am

      Re: Damaged moralising assholes

      "I, for one" you pretty much drive the nail home on most of your arguments.

      Politcians are pissing in their panties about the "moral issues": violent video games, obscenity in the media, online gambling, and online piracy, while the deaths of US soldiers in Iraq slowly climb to meet the number of casualties that occurred during 9/11.

      Like the man Stewart said: "Just what do you have to do to get fired in this administration?"

      Or something along those lines.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    anony mouse, 12 Jul 2006 @ 4:06pm

    I agree. If Congress is working to make unlicensed online casinos "illegal" with new legislation, it does imply that offshore online casinos are legal for the time being...

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 12 Jul 2006 @ 5:49pm

    It was a bill sent to them, they didn't spend much money on this at all. Use your brain when thinking and sometimes you will make relavent thoughts.

    This is about the WTO and international trade. If there is no way for the government to regulate trade, then they don't allow it. It makes sense, and it keeps our money in our economy instead of Antigua's or the Bahamas. It makes sense from every aspect when you think about it, so stop complaining. If you really hate this so much, start up the first in-country online poker company and wait for the courts to decide who regulates what. It will most likely end up better for us if you do.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    I, for one, 12 Jul 2006 @ 7:08pm

    Global outcasts

    Says AC "It makes sense, and it keeps our money in our economy instead of Antigua's or the Bahamas."

    Gambling can't be seen in the same analysis as normal "trade" since the net money flow is one way, you don't get anything back. Unless of course you're one of the fools who thinks the table is straight, in which case when you *win* all that money will just be coming out of the economy of the Bahamas right?

    Of course you could take a fully free market capitalism viewpoint of it. Laws and regulation already exist in the United States to govern gambling, a phenomenon that dates back to the dawn of mankind.

    Clearly those regulations are too restrictive to allow business based on gambling to set up and flourish in the USA, Were that not the case you would see that many of the companies in this debate were established US businesses. But they aren't, they are in China or Antigua as you say.

    Think of this as competitive outsourcing. When the environment favours the businesman that's where he will go, to where it's perfectly legal to set up an internet gambling business with less taxes and regulatory government intrusion, that's where the business will thrive.

    So you could say that the USA is simply uncompetitive in the global gambling market.

    The whole real point of the WTO, whether you subscribe to a globalist ideology or not, is to STOP governments from controlling trade - by forging international agreements.

    But the USA is FAMOUS at the WTO for screaming like a 2 year old to get what it wants and going home in a sulk when it doesn't get it.
    What's happening is that the WTO (read - the rest of the world) as usual is not following the selfish whim of the USA that it's usually trying to impose on others. Most countries that aren't run by fundamentalist religious nutcases recognise gambling as a potential social harm, slyly pretend it has some economic value and promptly tax it. In other words they make a pragmatic compromise with a force of human nature they are smart enough to know they must accomodate and cannot ignore.

    The US congress is alone in its stance, isolationist, pig headed and moralising as usual, and completely in denial of the economic reality - that people will go elsewhere to get what they want, just like they always do. As AC suggests, the best thing Americans can do is embrace this, regulate it sensibly and join the fun.

    Sadly I don't think reasonable voices are in control in the US any longer. More and more I see the US government putting stubborn pride and introspective ideological thinking before practical politics and real economics. It's quite sad to see, like watching someone wallowing in self pity slowly get drunk .

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      EverydayBS, 13 Jul 2006 @ 6:21am

      Re: Global outcasts

      I'm sorry but gambling is not one sided. For the lost money you invest in gamblling you are almost guranteed to get back entertainment in the form of possibilities and excitement. The value of that is up to personal opinion.

      With everything else you said. I could not agree more.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Mike, 12 Jul 2006 @ 7:37pm

    You cannot regulate this

    • it is impossible to regulate online casinos - the reason is, that online casinos with US license for example cannot compete with casinos located overseas. Nobody can regulate online casino, which is not in the US. Thye will pay higher taxes in US, but casino in Costa Rica doesn't have to!
    • Allowing online casinos would not help US economy - Biggest online casinos are already gone, they operate elsewhere. If you open online casino market, why those companies need to setup office in the US? No reason for that. They would just make more money, but US goverment will not get their share

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      James, 17 Aug 2006 @ 12:47pm

      Online Casinos do have advantage in the US

      "Allowing online casinos would not help US economy..." -
      Another effect may take place: Regulating online casinos will drive US players to prefer a known US brand and thus US brands have an advantage over international casinos that are less trusted by Americans. There is still a chance that well known international brands will emerge that will be appealing to US citizens but that's a good competition - specially for players that will benefit from regulated and trusted online casinos.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Regulate THIS, 12 Jul 2006 @ 8:45pm

    Government blocks government gambling sites

    That's right! The federal government is blocking state gambling sites. I work at a DOx facility (with x equal D or E, you name it) and our smart IT people block all lottery web sites. I am sure Governor Kaine appreciates the fact that www.valottery.com happens to be one of the blocked sites. And soon it will be illegal to purchase a ticket online.

    The earnings from the Virginia Lottery go into public education. In 2005, that was a mere $423.5 Million! We know too well how much the current administration in the White House values education, don't we (can you say Faith Based Initiatives vs. dramatic budget cuts in research, science and education)?

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    I, for one, 12 Jul 2006 @ 10:59pm

    SO, no viable economic, political or practical rea

    I find it hard to strongly disagree with any posts here. I think we are all coming to the same concensus for once.

    Summary: The US Congress are batshit insane and blocking these websites located in other countries not because of any reasoning, but out of simple childish spite .

    This adds a whole new gear to the debate over China and their censorship policies doesn't it?

    "USA - we're not as bad as China (yet)"

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Geekazoid, 13 Jul 2006 @ 5:59am

    US Gov is Just Too Stupid to Get It

    The really funny thing about all this is that it is totally irrelevant if this law passes. It is completely unenforceable. US citizens will still be able to gamble online. Nothing will change. Well perhaps they'll have to go through proxy servers set up in other countries...

    "USA - we've been brainwashed to think we're not as bad as China"

    "The USA is the best country in the whole, wide world."
    Geekazoid

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 13 Jul 2006 @ 6:38am

    Politicians care about getting elected or re-elected. To do that they need money, so they support things that will either get them votes or money.

    As for all this "get the govt. out of my hair" bullshit, grow up. Things you do affect other people. Your decision to smoke can affect my health, your decision to drink can kill me if you drink and drive. Your decision to be a fat pig increases my insurance rates when we have to pay for your end stage renal disease.

    I know you sockfuckers want to go online and gamble without leaving your moms basement, but the real world really shouldn't be like that. Get a life, you want to play poker, go to a casino, if you are casino challenged, get together with other people (I know friends might be lacking) and have a game. Its a hell of a lot more fun than playing poker on-line.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 13 Jul 2006 @ 6:46am

    Politicians care about getting elected or re-elected. To do that they need money, so they support things that will either get them votes or money.

    As for all this "get the govt. out of my hair" bullshit, grow up. Things you do affect other people. Your decision to smoke can affect my health, your decision to drink can kill me if you drink and drive. Your decision to be a fat pig increases my insurance rates when we have to pay for your end stage renal disease.

    I know you sockfuckers want to go online and gamble without leaving your moms basement, but the real world really shouldn't be like that. Get a life, you want to play poker, go to a casino, if you are casino challenged, get together with other people (I know friends might be lacking) and have a game. Its a hell of a lot more fun than playing poker on-line.


    yeah bro you sure showed these neckbeard faggots now go drive around in your Corvette and fuck your supermodel girlfriend on a pile of hundred dollar bills and live a morally superior life because youre just plain better

    Ass.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    GlobalGamingNews.com, 14 Jul 2006 @ 12:17pm

    A waste of tax dollars

    They're right, it has a very slim chance of passing the Senate. Should that snowball melt, it really doesn't accomplish anything new. And, as history has shown, prohibitions make rich men of defiant individuals.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Online-Casinos.com, 25 Jun 2008 @ 5:53am

    The ban is not working so far

    So har the online gambling ban has not worked at all - many online casinos are still accepting customers from the US.

    The only thing that happened is that the biggest and best online casinos has stopped accepting us players. US gamblers no longer have the option to play at the very best casinos online - but they still have a wide selection to choose from. The law is defenitly not working as intended (i presume) so they should change it in my opinion. Regulate it I say.

    Jan

    Online Casinos

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Jon, 8 Jul 2008 @ 11:27am

    Freedom of Choice

    The ban has some power to limit the players in the US. It is a shame as an entertainment that can be enjoyable and exciting has been demonised. It has effected my business as I review sites that accept both in the UK as well as USA players, but the fallout is that advertising opportunities are limited on google, Msn and the other major search engines. It even has had an effect on the advertising set up of us here in the UK. It seems unfair as online Casinos here are perfectly legal. Thanks Jon http://www.comparingcasinos.com

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Online Casino Suite, 24 Sep 2009 @ 11:56am

    3 years later

    It's 3 years later and we still have this madness continuing. There is plenty of information suggesting the best move is to tax and regulate online casinos. Hopefully Barney Franlk's bill will gain some traction once this health care issue is resolved. Here's to that!

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    onlinecasinos-USA.com, 26 May 2010 @ 12:08am

    Online Casino

    The ban is not working at all... Freedom of Choice! Go and play onlinecasinos-USA.com

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]


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