I Speak Fluent ‘New Social Media CEO Who’s In Over Their Head’; Let Me Translate The Last Few Days Of Twitter Policy

from the the-pathetic-autocrat-edition dept

The last few days on Twitter have been, well, chaotic, I guess? Beyond the blocking of the ElonJet account, followed by the blocking of the @JoinMastodon account, then the blocking of journalists asking about all this and the silly made up defense of it, over the weekend, Twitter announced a new policy banning linking to or even displaying usernames on a whole host of other social media platforms:

The new “promotion of alternative social platforms policy,” which was quite obviously hastily crafted, said that “Twitter will no longer allow free promotion of specific social media platforms on Twitter.” It said that “at both the Tweet level and the account level, we will remove any free promotion of prohibited 3rd-party social media platforms, such as linking out … to any of the below platforms on Twitter, or providing your handle without a URL.

The “prohibited platforms” list had some odd inclusions, and even odder exclusions:

  • Facebook, Instagram, Mastodon, Truth Social, Tribel, Post and Nostr
  • 3rd-party social media link aggregators such as linktr.ee, lnk.bio

This is… desperate? Silly?

But it also raised questions. Where was TikTok? Or YouTube? Or Gab? Or Parler? Or a bunch of other small new wannabes? You could say they’re too small, but then again, he included Nostr, a social media protocol that is brand new and has basically zero features. I have personally been playing with it, but I think only about 500 people are currently using it. Maybe. Probably fewer.

Of course, as usual, Musk’s biggest fans immediately started crafting silly breathless defenses of how this was totally consistent with Musk’s claims of bringing his “free speech absolutism” to the platform. Most of these defenses were pathetic. Perhaps none more so than his mother’s.

That’s Elon’s mom saying that his new proposal “makes absolute sense” because “when I give a talk for a corporation, I don’t promote other corporations. If I did, I would be fired on the spot and never booked again? Is that hard to understand?”

I mean, that is not hard to understand, but it’s also not an accurate description of the scenario. The people using Twitter are not paid to give talks “for Twitter.” And, if that were the standard, then, um, that wouldn’t just justify Twitter’s old practices of banning accounts for lots of things that any company would fire you for saying during a “company talk,” but actually make you wonder why Twitter didn’t ban a hell of a lot more people.

But, of course, that’s not the standard. Or the scenario.

And then, of course, a few hours later, Musk (facing pretty loud criticism of this latest policy change) appeared to do an about-face, though you’d have to be following him closely to actually realize it. First he defended it, saying “Twitter should be easy to use, but no more relentless free advertising of competitors. No traditional publisher allows this and neither will Twitter.”

Except that’s also not true. First of all, every other social media platform absolutely allows accounts to link to alternative social media. Second, even “traditional publishers” frequently will link to accounts on alternative social media and they will also (not always, but increasingly) acknowledge competing media providers.

Then he made it more vague saying “casually sharing occasional links is fine, but no more relentless advertising of competitors for free, which is absurd in the extreme.”

Which is not a reasonable policy. Because how does anyone know when they’ve cross that line? Either way, as anyone who works in this space knows, if you have a vague policy like “casually sharing occasional links is fine” while the written policy says no links, you’re going to end up in ridiculous situations, such as when famed startup investor/Musk fan/pontificator Paul Graham pointed out that the policy was so dumb he was leaving for Mastodon… and promptly got banned, leading Musk to promise to have the account restored.

Eventually, in a reply to an account known for posting nonsense conspiracy theories, Musk said that the “policy will be adjusted to suspending accounts only when that account’s *primary* purpose is promotion of competitors, which essentially falls under the no spam rule.”

After that, he posted a poll asking whether he should step down as CEO of Twitter. He lost, 57.5% to 42.5% (though as I’m writing, he’s not said anything further on the results, but I full expect that he’s going to shove someone else into the role while still owning and controlling the company).

The TwitterSafety account also ran a poll asking “should we have a policy preventing the creation of or use of existing accounts for the main purpose of advertising other social media platforms”, and while the poll still has a few hours left as I write this, it seems people are almost universally against it:

So, despite Elon arguing that not having such a policy is “absurd in the extreme” and his mother insisting that such a policy “makes absolute sense,” the “vox populi” on Twitter disagrees.

Why is he doing all this? What is going on?

It seems that I have a bit of experience understanding how new social media CEOs who come in on a wave of “bringing free speech back!” promises end up running the social media content moderation learning curve. Thus, I thought it might be useful to explain the basic thought process that normally one goes through here, and that likely created each of these results. It’s basically the same as how Parler’s then CEO John Matze went from “our content is moderated based off the FCC and the Supreme Court” to “posting pictures of your fecal matter in the comment section WILL NOT BE TOLERATED” in a matter of days.

Basically, it’s exactly what I wrote in my speed run article. These naive social media CEOs come in, thinking that the thing “missing” from social media is “free speech.” But they’re wrong. Even if you strongly believe in “free speech” (as I do), that doesn’t mean you want to allow crazy assholes screaming insults at guests in your house. You ask those people to leave, so that your guests can feel welcome. That doesn’t mean you’re against free speech, you’re just saying “go be a crazy asshole somewhere else.”

Every “free speech” CEO eventually realizes this in some form or another. In Musk’s somewhat selfish view of the world, he only seems to notice the concerns when it comes to himself. While he’s had no problem encouraging brigading and harassing of those he dislikes, when a random crazy person showed up near a car with his child in it, he insisted (falsely, as we now know) that it was an account on his website that put him in danger, and banned it.

But, of course, reporters are going to report on it, and in that frenzied state of “this is bad, must be stopped,” he immediately jumped to “well, anyone talking about that account must also be bad, and obviously should also be stopped.”

The “links to other social media” freakout was likely related to all of this as well. First people were linking to the ElonJet account on other social media (which Musk referred to — incorrectly — as “ban evasion”) and so he saw social media as a sneaky tool for getting around his paradise view of how Twitter should work. Also, while there’s no confirmation on this point from Twitter’s numbers, it sure feels like these other social media sites are getting a nice inflow of users giving up on (or at least decreasing their usage of) Twitter.

The biggest beneficiary (by far) seems to be Mastodon, so Musk could view this as a “kill two birds with one stone” move: trying to blunt Mastodon’s growth while also (in his mind) stopping people from visiting the “dangerous” ElonJet account on Mastodon. Except, of course, the opposite of that occurred, and he created a sort of Streisand Effect bump for Mastodon users:

Chart showing mastodon growth over the past week

See those bumps in new signups? Those are Elon bumps. Each time he does something crazy, more people sign up.

So, based on that, Elon quickly started banning reporters who he disliked and who were asking what he saw as sketchy questions, and then tried to retcon policies to justify those bans. First it was the nonsense about “assassination coordinates” and then it became about links to social media. Reporter Taylor Lorenz got accused of both. Elon first claimed that her account was suspended for doxing someone “previously” in her reporting (which is something Lorenz-haters have falsely insisted she did). But Twitter directly told Lorenz she was banned for a tweet showing her accounts on other sites:

This is how tyrants rule when they want to pretend they’re ruling by principles. Punish those who oppose you, and then retcon in some kind of policy later, which you insist is an “obviously” good policy, to justify the bans.

Of course, in the old days, when Twitter had a thoughtful trust & safety team, at least they’d make some effort to game out new policies. They’d discuss how those policies might lead to bad outcomes, or how they might be confusing, or how they might be abused. But Elon and friends have no time for that. They need to ban people who upset him, and come up with the policies to justify it later.

That’s how you end up with the stupidly broad “no doxing” policy and the even dumber “no other social media” policy — and only then do they discover the problems of the policies, and try to adjust them on the fly.

There are two other facts here worth noting, and both apply to a very typical pattern found in authoritarians taking over governments while preaching about how they’re “bringing freedom back.”

First, they often will lie about the oppression that they claim happened under the last regime. That’s absolutely been the case here. As the Twitter files actually showed, Twitter’s former regime was not a bunch of “woke radicals censoring conservatives.” They were a thoughtful group of people doing an impossible task with not nearly enough resources, time, or information. As such, sometimes they made mistakes. But on the whole they were trying to create reasonable policies. This is why all evidence, across multiple studies, showed that Twitter actually bent over backwards to not be biased against conservatives, but Trumpists still insisted it was “obvious” that they were moderating based on bias.

The usefulness for the people now in charge, though, is that they feel they have free rein to do what they (falsely) insisted the previous regime was doing. You see it among many Musk fans now (including some high profile ones who should know better *cough* Marc Andreessen *cough*), who are mocking anyone pointing out the nonsense justifications and hypocrisy of Musk’s new policies, which clearly violate his old stated plans for the site. The people justifying this say, mockingly, “oooooooh, look who’s suddenly supportive of free speech.” The more vile version of this is “oh, well how does it feel now that you’re on the other end?” The more direct version is just “well, you did it to us.”

Except all of that is bullshit. Because people talking about it aren’t screaming about “free speech,” so much as pointing out how Musk is going back on his word. A thoughtful commentator might realize that maybe there were good reasons for older decisions, and it wasn’t just “woke suppression of free speech.” But, instead, they justify their new actions based on it being okay because of the falsely believed cruelty of the previous regime.

Second, this is pretty common with “revolutionaries” promising freedom. When they discover that freedom also allows people to oppose the new leader, those “disloyal” to the new regime need to be put down and silenced. In their minds, they justify it, because the ends (“eventual freedom”) justify the means of getting there. So, yes, the king must kill the protestors, but it’s only because those protestors might ruin this finely planned journey to more freedom.

So, in the mind of the despot who wants to believe they’re bringing a “better world of freedom” to the public, it’s okay to deny that freedom to the agitators and troublemakers, because they’re the ones “standing in the way” of freedom to the wider populace.

It seems like some of both of those factors are showing up here.

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Comments on “I Speak Fluent ‘New Social Media CEO Who’s In Over Their Head’; Let Me Translate The Last Few Days Of Twitter Policy”

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Thad (profile) says:

Basically, it’s exactly what I wrote in my speed run article. These naive social media CEOs come in, thinking that the thing “missing” from social media is “free speech.” But they’re wrong. Even if you strongly believe in “free speech” (as I do), that doesn’t mean you want to allow crazy assholes screaming insults at guests in your house. You ask those people to leave, so that your guests can feel welcome. That doesn’t mean you’re against free speech, you’re just saying “go be a crazy asshole somewhere else.”

Wait, when did you start telling crazy assholes to leave?

Anathema Device (profile) says:

Re:

“when did you start telling crazy assholes to leave?”

God, I wish he would 🙁 The comments section on this site is completely unreadable once there are more than ten.

Of course, if supposedly smart people would just flag the trolls and move on, there wouldn’t be an issue. (Yes, I’ve fallen in the Sarlac pit myself, but I’m trying to give it up.)

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Scary Devil Monastery (profile) says:

Re:

“Wait, when did you start telling crazy assholes to leave?”

I have to second that, Mike. Last I checked you’re still suffering Baghdad bob and his spiritual peers to come around this place and shit on the floor just as they like, leaving it up to the community to barely cover the steaming pile with a hastily thrown surfeit of flags.

(And even that’s enough to have those brittle snowflakes explode in rants of “I have been SILENCED!”)

Scary Devil Monastery (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:

Well, yes. My question was rhetorical. I know Mike’s got better things to do than spend all day helming a banhammer.

I just found Thad’s comment to be very on the nose, given that Mike let slip the phrase “Even if you strongly believe in “free speech” (as I do), that doesn’t mean you want to allow crazy assholes screaming insults at guests in your house.”

I mean, I know I’ve been a bit quiet for some time here but I’m pretty sure I’ve seen good ole Baghdad Bob et. al. still being shouty for the alt-right and the copyright cult around here in very offensive “crazy asshole” behavior.

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Cat_Daddy (profile) says:

I think this is the first case of a genuine Digitator. Musk somehow speed ran Twitter from a semi-respectable site and into the equivalent of a literal third-world country. And to think that people actually wanted him to run as a candidate for the American Presidency prior to whatever meltdown we could call this. Because if Twitter was the best showcase of what he could do as a leader, then I would put him on the same list as Donald Trump and DeSantis on the tier of “O GOD NO.”

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Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:

Hey now, GLaDOS would be a better CEO of Twitter than Musk.

“You posted something really dumb today. I was going to flood your room with deadly neurotoxin for doing that, but being insulted by everyone else on Twitter is a more fitting punishment. Lucky you.”

Synonymous Scaredycat (profile) says:

Re: Re:

Idk I feel like maybe the ‘Global South’ has a better chance of actually escaping the reach of dictators because unlike the US, people take that seriously. Maybe we’re aware we have Trump here in America, we may even be aware there’s networks of paramilitary fascists disrupting peaceful protests while trying to blame anarchists or commies or ‘antifa’ or whatever dubious sealife they try to get people to scent, people may be assassinated by them or have their safety threatened while voting… but we’ll be damned if we give a shit.

How can we when we’re the world’s “greatest country”; what space does that leave for self-relfection and acknowledge that for all our accomplishments, we’re the world leader in being and an exploitative xenophobic shithole. When we look at China being like that, they’re just following a playbook we wrote, and so is Russia. And all we did was rewrite old colonial BS.

The ‘winners’ can’t stop ‘winning’ to realize they fucked over themselves too, that’s America. We have Trump, but at least you don’t have Trump. Just a bunch of genocidal assholes in various countries who are enabled by the Trumps and Putins and Xi and… all the colonial legacies still sinking their fangs in.

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Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

An important thing to consider about the “should I step down as CEO” poll: Musk has reportedly been getting grief from his Saudi backers⁠—to the point where they allegedly asked him to step down from his role as CEO. The poll, then, could be a smokescreen designed to give him an excuse for stepping down.

As for the social media competitors policy: It was a shitty decision from a shitty person who thinks every idea of his is a brilliant idea until he gets met with actual pushback/a semblance of consequences for implementing his ideas.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re:

gets met with actual pushback/a semblance of consequences for implementing his ideas.

At least being the head of a prominent social media platform, he is no longer surrounded by nothing but “yes” men, and the users of Twitter will voice their opinions about him & his policies.

There is no way possible for him to hide all his critics so therefore he can’t rely on his “yes” men to constantly paint rosy pictures for him.

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Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re:

And then there’s the Dave Chappelle situation, where Musk faced a rousing chorus of boos for probably the first time in his entire life and stood there like a dope because he wasn’t nearly as witty and clever as he believed himself to be. God, it makes me warm inside just thinking about it.

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Anathema Device (profile) says:

Re: The Saudis?

“Musk has reportedly been getting grief from his Saudi backers”

All I’ve seen is speculation, and I somehow doubt this is happening. The Saudis are happy to have leftwing reporting in America suppressed, and Musk is delivering. Their investment amounts to sofa money. Musk is a cheap date, as far as they’re concerned

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PaulT (profile) says:

Re: Re:

“The Saudis are happy to have leftwing reporting in America suppressed”

That only happens so long as Twitter remains the default platform for such things (if it ever truly was). Their investment amounts to zero if Musk’s actions gets people to flee to a different platform. So far, he couldn’t have been doing as much to inspire that in any other way short of literally shutting the site down after he took the reins.

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Scary Devil Monastery (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:

“That only happens so long as Twitter remains the default platform for such things (if it ever truly was). “

By all accounts TikTok would be the bigger gathering point for left-wingers than Twitter. And now I’m suddenly wondering how much Saudi lobby money there is in the pending bill to ban TikTok from US shores these days…

I can somehow see a saudi princeling pay a few billion right out of his coffee cash budget just over reading an unflattering tweet about him, though. It may not be a rational call to make – but then again, neither is having inconvenient journalists chopped into bits.

The Saudi royal house and the major moneybags in that kingdom are scary to the point where they make the mafia and the russian mob look tame.

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PaulT (profile) says:

Re:

“Musk has reportedly been getting grief from his Saudi backers”

That, I don’t blame them for. Presumably, they wanted investment so that they could stand to profit, but more importantly have influence over a platform that wouldn’t attempt to oppose their censorship in their own country, and have influence over its usage in the West.

Musk’s jeopardising all of these aims, by not only losing so much money but making it a very toxic environment for people to remain on. The only real advantage so far is that the network effect mean that people can’t just immediately dive to a place that has all the people they follow to talk to in the same way. Once that happens, it’s dead.

I don’t approve, but I can understand why their investment isn’t working out how they planned.

Owlmirror says:

Re:

I’m probably paranoid, but . . .

It occurred to me that it makes very little sense for Saudis to invest in a known-to-be money-losing social media company, but it makes quite a lot of sense for them to invest in a signals intelligence goldmine.

Musk has been creating a lot of smoke and chaos with all of the firings and policy changes. Could it be that that’s at least partially to cover for the hiring/promotion of Saudi intelligence assets who will have free reign over the entire user database? They would not want just “left wing” post suppression, but finding and tracking dissidents and foreign government communications (Israel, Iran, Russia, USA, Europe, other Gulf states…).

Maybe look for an anonymous “donation” that will keep the company going indefinitely. “Oh, we just love free speech, and want free speech on Twitter to keep going….”

/Probably paranoid.

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Scary Devil Monastery (profile) says:

Re: Re:

Unlikely. I guess that yeah, intel agencies no doubt want as much soft assets as possible including user data but…that’s all open market stuff. The saudis can get that data the same way the chinese and russians can – by simply having a shell company buy the data in bulk.

Twitter, TikTok, and other social platforms, simply aren’t big assets on the intel front. Certainly not to the point where acquiring one for signals intelligence makes sense.

What is far more likely is that owning the moderator’s seat of Twitter – massive in Saudi Arabia – benefits the royal house of Saud on the home front and THAT amply merits the expense of a measly few billion. Within the arab region of the ME, a full 30% of twitter users are saudi or something like that.

Saudi Arabia is an absolute monarchy. Kings historically take a dim view of anything resembling a free press. Because when the citizenry can communicate freely the throne usually starts to shake.

PaulT (profile) says:

Re: Re:

That’s not paranoid, but realistic. The Saudis are known to despise what Twitter has stood for, and it’s caused them many problems when their citizens have leveraged it.

But, them financing continued operation despite Musk’s driving it into the ground? That, I don’t think is so realistic. They’re more likely to ingratiate themselves into wherever users are fleeing towards than prop up a company that’s no longer going to be a concern. There’s more choice than ever with where people can go today, but what matters with social media is the network effect where people stick around until the people they care about go somewhere they can follow.

Musk’s made a lot of promises, from making an easy turnaround by replacing “bots” with “free speech” to turning the company into a far wider concern that could have control of all sorts of other areas such as finance. They could have been swayed by that, but I don’t think they’ll be funnelling money into a dying concern that was already an extra $1 billion in the hole before Musk started killing it.

If you want to be paranoid and look for monetary influence, keep an eye on any competitor that comes from nowhere but is able to handle traffic on that sort of scale quickly.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Twitter’s former regime was not a bunch of “woke radicals censoring conservatives.” They were a thoughtful group of people doing an impossible task with not nearly enough resources, time, or information.

The worst part about this, is that the people who come here constantly stating that Twitter 1.0 was nothing but a bunch of “libs” trying to silence conservative voices, will never believe anything else no matter how much proof and evidence is provided to counter their stance.

But now that Twitter 2.0 is blatantly trying to silence its critics, we will hear nothing from these same people.

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Anon E Mouse says:

About that former regime

Having browsed through the Twitter files, I can confidently say that calling the former regime ‘thoughtful’ or ‘reasonable’ is rather strong language.
They seem more like powertripping children with too much power and no sense of responsibility. Lots of logs of scrambling to find reasons to ban people they don’t like. Occasional admissions that they don’t have the grounds to ban someone ‘this time’ and concluding to instead hit them harder for a future violation. Intentionally inconsistent enforcement of rules, including letting calls for genocide stay if it was against people they didn’t like.

And with all that they still managed to handle things better than Musk. I used to like that man but man did he create one hell of a dumpster fire.

jimb (profile) says:

The real test...

is if, now that the votes are in, Musk leaves Twitter. He asked for a poll, he’s said he’ll abide by the results, and the results are in. The results are Elon should go… will he? Or will he, just like other autocrats, find an excuse, any excuse, to just do what he wants. Regardless, it is highly entertaining watching Elon burn 44 Billion in almost real time.

Michael says:

Re:

You seem to be assuming the poll would ever reflect any result other than the one Elon wants.

He did not put up a poll and tell the development team “let’s see what happens”. He put up a poll and told the dev team “it is going to be x ‘yes’ and y ‘no’ – go make it happen.

There is no transparency in the Twitter polling process. We have to assume the results are simply what Elon wants them to be.

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Wyrm (profile) says:

And, much like the 45th POTUS, when Musk says something bad, you can find a tweet of himself explaining it best.

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1533616384747442176

The acid test for any two competing socioeconomic systems is which side needs to build a wall to keep people from escaping? That’s the bad one! (@elonmusk on Jun 5, 2022)

That One Guy (profile) says:

Whoops, just showed your hand there

The usefulness for the people now in charge, though, is that they feel they have free rein to do what they (falsely) insisted the previous regime was doing. You see it among many Musk fans now (including some high profile ones who should know better cough Marc Andreessen cough), who are mocking anyone pointing out the nonsense justifications and hypocrisy of Musk’s new policies, which clearly violate his old stated plans for the site. The people justifying this say, mockingly, “oooooooh, look who’s suddenly supportive of free speech.” The more vile version of this is “oh, well how does it feel now that you’re on the other end?” The more direct version is just “well, you did it to us.”

And in so doing those people have said the quiet part out loud by admitting that their only problem with moderation was and still is that they aren’t the ones choosing who to moderate.

Anonymous Coward says:

“Twitter should be easy to use, but no more relentless free advertising of competitors. No traditional publisher allows this and neither will Twitter.”

“casually sharing occasional links is fine, but no more relentless advertising of competitors for free, which is absurd in the extreme.”

So any minute I’m sure he’s going to make sure Twitter blocks any kind of tweet embedding because he wouldn’t want other platforms to promote his platform, right?

I literally only see Twitter on other websites and predominantly on other social media like Facebook or Reddit. I’ve only ever seen TikTok videos on Reddit.

Darkness Of Course (profile) says:

Time to propose a new comment button

I propose the ‘Musk’ button.

You activate it at the conjunction of lunacy and megalomaniac changes of direction. This is useful for any article referring to Musk, because he does this all the time and for every company.

Recall him banning a journalist from buying a Tesla? Yep, Musk button time.

The Musk button implies a stupid decision, or a stupid excuse for one, or his rambling on about his fragile skin being touched by breezes coincidentally stirred because others didn’t kill that DAMNED BUTTERFLY.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re:

The good thing about SuperFund sites on the Internet is that unless you spend time and money to maintain them, they disappear on their own. If Musk stop paying for the servers and bandwidth, no more Twitter; no more toxicity.

I only wish real SuperFund sites worked that way; that the toxicity would go away on its own on a reasonable timescale.

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Bruno says:

Crazy Assholes

“That doesn’t mean you’re against free speech, you’re just saying “go be a crazy asshole somewhere else.“

The main problem with Musk as CEO is that he IS the crazy asshole, and he bought the company for the sole purpose of ensuring he has an unmoderated voice, while his opponents do not. Every executive action he’s taken in the past few weeks make it clear that this is his primary motivation for every decision he’s made.

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Anonymous Coward says:

So, yes, the king must kill the protestors, but it’s only because those protestors might ruin this finely planned journey to more freedom.

In the past, when I have said that large generic speech platforms should not censor opinions based on their viewpoints, you have said that they should, because not doing so will intimidate some users and thus there will be less speech (which you posited incorrectly as less free speech). So when the censorship was going your way, you were fine with silencing viewpoints in order to have a finely planned journey to more freedom. It’s only when the censorship bans viewpoints that you like then all of a sudden you now see “killing protesters” as wrong. This is what you should have seen all along, but woke ideologues hate free speech when the speech promotes popular viewpoints they hate.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:

I just wouldn’t have described them as being run by “woke ideologues” is all.

They also gesture towards the flaw in ‘viewpoint censorship’ as a concept: not all viewpoints are equal, or equally conducive to a healthy community/site/etc. Especially when some of those viewpoints are, e.g. ‘lgtbq people/black people/women/refugees/people not of my religion ought not have human rights’. Getting rid of the speech that is deliberately suppressive of speech (frequently using arguments that have already been litigated to death, sometimes at Nuremberg) is absolutely not the same as getting rid of speech that annoys one person in particular.

It’s not a case of being fine with censorship when it’s going your way. It’s the fact that opposing viewpoints are not symmetrical. When your discussing what colour to paint a house, you should absolutely exclude fromthe discussion the guy who shows up with a flamethrower and starts trying to burn it down.

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Hyman Rosen (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:2

Freedom of speech is a foundational value of American society. Thus large generic speech platforms should err on the side of allowing more viewpoints rather than fewer. What one person might believe is settled beyond reasonable doing can be totally disbelieved by someone else. Without firm free speech policies in place, moderation inevitably tilts to censorship as the biases of the moderators infect the process.

PaulT (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:3

“Freedom of speech is a foundational value of American society.”

Indeed. Enshrined in that are concepts like freedom of association, and the fact that free speech does not mean freedom from consequences of that speech from other private citizens.

People telling you to GTFO is not in opposition to free speech. It’s other people exercising their free speech. That doesn’t change just because some of them are also exercising private property rights.

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Toom1275 (profile) says:

Re:

when I have said that large generic speech platforms should not censor opinions based on their viewpoints…

…You were deliberately lying.

when the censorship was going your way, you were fine with silencing viewpoints in order to have a finely planned journey to more freedom. It’s only when the censorship bans viewpoints that you like then all of a sudden you now see “killing protesters” as wrong

… said npbody not hallucinating, ever.

woke ideologues hate free speech when the speech promotes popular viewpoints they hate.

It’s never not projection from Hyman

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Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re:

In the past, when I have said that large generic speech platforms should not censor opinions based on their viewpoints, you have said that they should, because not doing so will intimidate some users and thus there will be less speech (which you posited incorrectly as less free speech).

Except that is correct. One person refusing to speak up out of fear of being beaten (or worse) makes all speech a little less free.

So when the censorship was going your way, you were fine with silencing viewpoints in order to have a finely planned journey to more freedom.

Twitter bans hate(ful) speech aimed at the marginalized, not “conservative viewpoints”. You’re the one who views the two categories as inseparable. Also: Freedom is maximized not by having no rules, but by having the right rules. A platform’s ban on racist speech helps maximize freedom on that platform because it helps prevent racists from shouting the voices of racial minorities into oblivion. You’re the only one who seems to have a problem with that. Curious. 🤔

It’s only when the censorship bans viewpoints that you like then all of a sudden you now see “killing protesters” as wrong.

When has any Techdirt author ever approved of anyone killing protesters of any political bent?

woke ideologues hate free speech when the speech promotes popular viewpoints they hate

Racism, queerphobia, and anti-Semitism aren’t as popular as your right-wing media bubble would have you believe.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:

First, your posts are still visible to anyone who wants to validate their delusions, Hyman.

Secondly, if you hate moderation so much, then are those fine conservative sites you were booted from allowed to disassociate from your racist, sexist, white supremacist ass as well?

Even if you are going to be a damn hypocrite, at least scream it out.

This comment has been deemed insightful by the community.
That One Guy (profile) says:

Re: Re: 'Not letting bigots have the heckler's vetor=more speech' is not complex

Except that is correct. One person refusing to speak up out of fear of being beaten (or worse) makes all speech a little less free.

It’s telling that in two hypothetical situations, one where minorities and other groups are intimidated into silence because bigots are allowed to harass, belittle and dehumanize them and one where bigots are simply told ‘you can speak but if you harass, belittle and/or dehumanize others you’re out’ it’s only the latter that’s considered a threat to free speech to certain individuals.

I wonder why…

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Hyman Rosen (profile) says:

Re: Re:

Every private platform has the right to ban whomever they please and to moderate as they please. I do not hate conservative sites or liberal sites for doing so, including doing so to me. However, I believe that since free speech is a foundational value of American society, speech platforms, especially large generic ones, ought to support that freedom and refrain from censoring opinions based on viewpoint. But it’s up to them to behave properly, not up to me to force them to do so.

I tend to argue against the prevailing but wrong viewpoints where I comment, so being banned does not surprise me, even though I believe that it says more about the site owners than it does about me. Here, I argue against woke ideology. On Dreher’s site, I argued against the existence of gods and the supernatural.

PaulT (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:2

Yep, you can be a hateful idiot all you want. However, if you decide to act like one in the company of people who don’t agree with you, they might decide to protect their trans customers/friends right to exist instead of your right to speak. You can still go elsewhere to speak if you wish, but unless you opt to keep your views to yourself you might find yourself in a minority.

People do this all the time. If I think my boss is an asshole, I can think that all I want and speak out at the bar after work or with my partner or whatever. If I say it in a meeting, it’s my own problem if I find myself without a job.

This comment has been deemed insightful by the community.
Rocky says:

Re:

It’s funny how you aren’t even smart enough to realize how you have undercut your own argument.

If you were a reasonable, consistent, intelligent and principled fellow you would condemn any type of “viewpoint discrimination”. As evidenced by your recent posts, that isn’t the case at all because the moment Musk went on his meltdown banning spree where an assortment of accounts where dinged you:
1. equated those who owned those accounts with “woke ideologues” in a sweeping generalization without any thought at all behind it except the emotional need to other them
2. gloated over the fact that those who you think are “woke ideologues” had it coming

All that means that it was never about “viewpoint discrimination” for you, it is all about you and your entitlement and how you won’t accept that civil people can’t stand you. But self reflection isn’t something you are capable of so this post will just go whoosh over your head.

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Hyman Rosen (profile) says:

Re: Re:

The woke ideologues I was talking about are Masnick and the TechDirt commentariat, who were happy with viewpoint-based censorship when the large generic speech sites were censoring in the direction they approved, and who are now unhappy that the censorship regime has changed at Twitter.

People who advocate and approve censorship when it is of viewpoints they hate certainly have it coming when the worm turns and it is then things they believe that become censored. That doesn’t make the new censorship any better than the old, but one takes one’s schadenfreude where one can.

PaulT (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:

“who were happy with viewpoint-based censorship when the large generic speech sites were censoring in the direction they approved, and who are now unhappy that the censorship regime has changed at Twitter.”

Yes, people were happy when bullies, trolls and liars were blocked, but are unhappy when their victims and people who try to correct the lies are. There’s no hypocrisy here.

You’ll also notice the difference in the reaction. When white supremacists were blocked from Twitter, there were cries of being “silenced” (even though everyone could still hear the impotent whining) and trying to get the government to force people to be hosted against the wishes of both the platforms and the general population.

With the recent events, it’s more people saying “this is a really bad idea” and “I hope popcorn supplies last”.

There’s a difference between saying “you shouldn’t do that” and “you shouldn’t be allowed to do that”.

This comment has been deemed insightful by the community.
PaulT (profile) says:

Re:

“Vox populi was a great idea until the populi’s vox runs counter to Musk’s.”

It’s worth mentioning that the full quote is:

“Nec audiendi qui solent dicere, Vox populi, vox Dei, quum tumultuositas vulgi semper insaniae proxima sit.”

Which roughly translates to:

“And those people should not be listened to who keep saying the voice of the people is the voice of God, since the riotousness of the crowd is always very close to madness.”

i.e. it actually warns against what Musk is doing.

It’s fairly clear that Musk is just trying to run cover for bad decisions by pretending that it was users and not him who made the decision. But, even if he weren’t hilariously failing to get consensus on his side, why would anyone trust the guy who has complete control over the property used to run the poll, including logs and databases, to begin with?

Anonymous Coward says:

The problem is you can’t run a social media service with millions of users based on what annoys Elon today
The people who were running the trust and safety team seem to be gone
Policy’s seem to change on a daily basis
Even the committee that ran the child safety team have been let Go
even though they were unpaid volunteers
who were experts in the field of content moderation
People are leaving for mastadon or other services because there seems to be no logical reason for how twitter is now run
Most websites allow outside links or bios that display other social media services people write or comment on twitter there’s websites like YouTube or Instagram where they post videos
Eg twitter is mainly used for short comments or to show links to articles
by journalists or commentators

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elivejoseph (profile) says:

Is all-in-one computer good?

All-in-one computers can be a good choice if you are searching for something different. They have many advantages over traditional notebook/laptop computers, including the ability to work on multiple tasks and synchronize your work across devices. All-in-one computers are still a great investment in the right environment. These desktop computers come with all the right components that you need, but they also have different options to choose from. You can choose if you want it to be portable, or if you want it to be a stationary computer that stays on your desk at all times. It could be a desktop computer, or a laptop. There are endless varieties of desktop/laptop hybrid laptops that run on Windows 10 or an Android operating system

for more info, visit:- https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/d/Ideacentre-yoga-a-series

Paul D. (user link) says:

Nostr vs. Gab etc.

One of the weird things about banning Nostr links is that, as you say, it’s extremely obscure. However, Jack Dorsey has been promoting it heavily of late. This seems like a direct shot by Musk at Dorsey.

As for Gab, Telegraph, and Parler not being banned, well, those are well-known havens for white supremacy and fascists. In other words, “political” views that Musk approves of. And if you ask, why was Truth Social banned then, it’s because they have been snarkily promoting the Elonjet account on their website.

Anonymous Coward says:

Fun fact: Microsoft got in trouble with antitrust regulators in the US way back then for using its market dominance to push Internet Explorer while suppressing its competitors. Twitter is undeniably a giant in the social media platform industry. His prohibition f mentioning of its competitors is a clear example of anticompetitive behavior that leverages his market advantage to suppress its competitors. So much for the freedom of speech absolutist BULLSHIT he claims to stand for, huh?

LostInLoDOS (profile) says:

But

Let’s just pass over the YEARS of anti-republican “private company” hypocrisy.

There is absolutely nothing wrong, in a rational person’s view, with not allowing free advertising for a competitor.
Twitter depends on advertising.
Already a large number of free loading thieves, et, users, use advert blockers.
Now you demand the site allow free unpaid advertising of competitors?

If you don’t like twitter. Go somewhere else. You have zero right to use of the service.

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