Before Musk Riled Everyone Up With Misleading Twitter Files About ‘Shadowbanning,’ Musk Used The Tool To Hide Account Tracking His Plane

from the a-shadowban-by-any-other-name dept

So, yeah, I wrote a big long thing debunking the first round of the “Twitter Files” but there’s no way I’m going to make myself do more of that for every stupid thread of the “Twitter Files” being tweeted out. Just know that, having read all of the released “Twitter Files” threads so far, they are all just as ridiculous as the first one. They are all written by people who appear to have (1) no idea what they’re looking at (2) no interest in talking to anyone who does understand it and (3) no concern about presenting them in an extremely misleading light in an effort to push a narrative that is not even remotely supported by what they’re sharing.

So far, to anyone who actually has been following the trust & safety / content moderation space over the last five to ten years, what the actual files have shown is a supremely competent trust & safety team, that was put in an impossible position, and actually bent over backwards to try to be thoughtful and careful about their decision making, rather than ad hoc and emotionally driven. Over and over and over again, the files seem to show not (as a bunch of people insisted) a bunch of “woke” ideologues suppressing opposing ideologies, but (as we’ve highlighted) a careful, thoughtful team, trying only to figure out the best way to stop assholes from being assholes — and doing so by trying to follow the rules they had set for themselves, though (as ALWAYS is the case in trust & safety) realizing that assholes are always evolving and policies sometimes have to change to evolve with the latest variant of asshole.

I did want to call out, though, that one of the ridiculously laughable “big reveals,” this time from Bari Weiss, was the well known fact that Twitter would “deboost” some users from trending and algorithms, and have them appear lower in replies. That wasn’t new. The company announced it. It was covered in detail in the media.

Much of the controversy last week was over the term “shadowban.” A lot of people insist that it has always meant any effort to limit the visibility of a user. But… that’s wrong. Historically, the term was really only used to mean a very particular type of limited visibility: one where those hit with it (trolls, spammers) could post, and think they’re posting normally, but only they could see their own posts.

The problem is that, as with so many things, a bunch of Trumpist grifters took a word that meant something real, and turned it into any kind of de-amplification. That happened in 2018 when Trump flipped out about a Twitter bug that accidentally downranked a bunch of people, including but not limited to some prominent Republicans in search results. Back in 2018, I wrote about how that was the wrong use of the word. Soon after, Twitter came out with its own explainer, which also clearly defined the original meaning of shadowbanning and said “that’s not what we do,” but explained (again pretty clearly) that tweets do get ranked and can be minimized in the algorithm, search, and replies. But those who follow them will still see them (unlike in a shadowban).

So much of the “controversy” over this was focused on the fact that a bunch of people only learned about the term “shadowban” from the misrepresented story in 2018, and none of them bothered to educate themselves in the half-decade since then. Now, language changes over time, so you can argue that the new definition of shadowbanning is how it’s commonly used today (though, I’m not convinced that’s true). However, even then you can’t say that Twitter somehow “misled” people, because (again) it very clearly stated which definition it was using and at the same time explained that users could get downranked in the algorithm and search.

But Bari Weiss misleadingly presented these features, which internally Twitter referred to as “visibility filters,” as Twitter lying about not shadowbanning. But… that’s wrong. And it’s obviously wrong to anyone who bothered to read what has already been publicly stated quite clearly.

Elon himself seemed to make a big deal out of this, and even falsely claimed that Weiss showed that this tool was only used against conservatives (it wasn’t and she showed nothing at all to support that). But the really bizarre part in all of this is Elon himself has claimed that he wants to do the same thing as his grand solution to content moderation, saying the company’s “new” policy “is freedom of speech, but not freedom of reach” and that “negative” tweets “will be max deboosted.”

Elon Tweet from November 18: New Twitter policy is freedom of speech, but not freedom of reach.

Negative/hate tweets will be max deboosted & demonetized, so no ads or other revenue to Twitter. 

You won’t find the tweet unless you specifically seek it out, which is no different from rest of Internet.

Except… as noted, that wasn’t a new policy at all. It was the old policy, which Twitter had been very public about. So it seems particularly disingenuous to claim that the old Twitter was doing something nefarious when it’s literally (1) the same thing they talked about publicly and (2) the same thing Elon says is his own brilliant solution.

But the story gets even dumber. You see, one of the Twitter accounts that Elon absolutely hates is the “@ElonJet” account that tracks where Elon’s private jet is flying based on public data. Elon has long hated this account, and once offered the guy behind it $5k to take it down. Last month, he also claimed that he would leave the account up to prove his “commitment to free speech.”

Elon tweet from November 6: My commitment to free speech extends even to not banning the account following my plane, even though that is a direct personal safety risk

However, Jack Sweeney, the guy behind the account, has now revealed via leak from a Twitter employee that just a few days before Bari Weiss’s “big reveal” about the “evil old Twitter shadowbanning,” Twitter’s new trust & safety boss, Ella Irwin, demanded that the Elonjet account be, well, max deboosted (in Elon’s terminology). In internal Twitter terminology it was “apply heavy VF to @elonjet immediately.” “VF” standing for “visibility filter.”

Screenshot of slack message from Ella Irwin demanding "Team please apply heavy FV to @elonjet immediately."

Here’s the thread from Sweeney:

Tweets from Jack Sweeney:

My Twitter Files on the shadow banning/filtering of 
@ElonJet

Internal messages obtained by a anonymous Twitter employee explained to me that on “Dec 2 2022 your account 
@elonjet
 was visibility limited/restricted to a severe degree internally.”

Screenshots show Ella Irwin VP at Twitter Trust and Safety requesting elonjet to have heavy VF (visibility filtering)

So, uh, yeah. Based on all that, as reported by the Daily Beast, it sure looks like Musk absolutely knew that this tool was already available to Twitter, and used it against an account he didn’t like.

And while it’s only a single line screenshot, and perhaps there is more context, I’ll just note how different that appears from the screenshots being revealed in the official “Twitter files,” in which there don’t seem to be random “suppress this account!” commands like what we see from Irwin above, but rather open discussions about “does this violate the rules?” and pushback from other employees to make sure that they’re being as fair and reasonable as possible.

We keep pointing out that Elon seems to be on the path of reinventing every innovation Twitter already had done, but doing it much, much worse, but this one seems particularly nefarious. Because just as he’s trying to whip everyone up into a frenzy by (misleadingly) claiming that this evil tool was secret and used to silence people not for rules violations, but personal whims… he was apparently using the very same tool based on his personal whims and feelings.

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Comments on “Before Musk Riled Everyone Up With Misleading Twitter Files About ‘Shadowbanning,’ Musk Used The Tool To Hide Account Tracking His Plane”

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Anonymous Coward says:

none of them bothered to educate themselves

I think this encompasses about the entirety of the modern “conservative” party.

They would rather pretend to be stupid just so they can “own the libs” than use their intelligence (if they have any) to understand simple topics.

Popehat’s Rule of Goats comes into play here too.

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Bergman (profile) says:

Re:

The problem is, both major parties do this. Each has topics that they don’t allow themselves to be educated about, that cause defections when one of them is forced to become educated about one or more of those topics.

John Lott, for example, is widely viewed among progressive democrats as a traitor, because of his abrupt heel-face turn on gun control and gun rights some years back, after he decided to get the full facts so he could properly debunk pro-gun arguments once and for all. Once he had those facts, he became one of the biggest opponents to gun control in the country.

Both sides are mislabeling the other though, this big fight isn’t about liberals and conservatives, and there are people in college right now who weren’t born yet the last time it actually was conservatives vs liberals.

It’s progressives vs traditionalists – people who want progress towards their agenda no matter what has to be abolished, versus people who prefer the old ways even when the new ways are obviously better. A liberal wants more freedom, but progressives aren’t liberals because freedom often gets in the way of their agendas. A conservative (in the USA anyway) wants to make sure changes are good ones before making them, because most of the existing system works the way it does for good reasons, and blind change for the sake of change can screw vast numbers of people.

Most of the conservatives and liberals self-identify as libertarians these days, not democrats or republicans,

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re:

The problem is, both major parties do this

💩 Bull Shit!! 💩

This is something that is uniquely “conservative”, i.e. conservative politicians playing stupid in order to pander to their base of rubes.

After all, how can the “coastal elites” of the Democrat party pretend to be stupid if they are, by definition, “coastal elites”?

coastal elite
noun [ C, + sing/pl verb ]
US /ˌkoʊ.stəl iˈliːt/ UK /ˌkəʊ.stəl eˈliːt/

the group of educated, professional people living mainly in cities on the western or northeastern coasts of the U.S. who have liberal political views and are often considered to have advantages that most ordinary Americans do not have:
He criticized America’s coastal elites for disregarding mainstream values.

Calicon (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:

Educated Coastal Elites, eh? Funny how the coastal elites tell us to live small and that climate change is an existential threat, yet they’re clearly not too worried about the oceans rising. Coastal elites left all the way to the bank because they know stupid people will keep giving them money and believe anything they say.

Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:2

Funny how the coastal elites tell us to live small and that climate change is an existential threat, yet they’re clearly not too worried about the oceans rising.

Neither are conservatives, given how they’re the ones often blocking any progress on stalling/reversing climate change. They don’t want things to change, but they can’t stop things from changing. The real question is whether they’ll help change things for the better or do nothing while things change for the worse.

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Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re:

A conservative (in the USA anyway) wants to make sure changes are good ones before making them

ahahahaha that’s cute that you believe that

but no

The modern American conservative, such as is found in the arena of politics, doesn’t give two fucks about making any changes to society. If they did, they’d actually do something to make that change. But when was the last time the right wing of American politics broadly supported reasonable gun control, equality for queer people under the law, taxing corporations and the obscenely wealthy, raising the minimum wage, or literally any other policy that actually would create some lasting positive change to society?

American Conservatives don’t want things to change. They want things to go back to an imagined Shangri-La period of American history where everyone knew their place, nobody complained about race or gender or what have you, and the world wasn’t going to Hell in a handbasket thanks to global climate change. To preserve an ideal that never existed, the GOP will destroy everything that could exist, might exist, and even does exist⁠—including, it seems, the American Experiment itself.

That said, I can’t and won’t deny that liberal politicians in this country have issues. But theirs are generally issues of cowardice⁠—of the fear of pissing off voters (especially conservative voters) to the point of losing an election⁠—and of using issues they could settle via law to continue driving their campaigns. The Dems could’ve passed a bill to codify Roe v. Wade into law at any point before the Supreme Court struck that ruling down, but they refused because it was more advantageous (to their bank accounts) for them to say they supported the fight to protect abortion rights and drum up financial support for their campaigns.

All progress comes with a price. But stagnation has a price of its own. Of the two major political parties in this country, only one has any interest in progressing towards a future that improves as many lives as possible⁠—and it sure as shit isn’t the GOP.

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JasonC (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:

“But when was the last time the right wing of American politics broadly supported reasonable gun control, equality for queer people under the law, taxing corporations and the obscenely wealthy, raising the minimum wage, or literally any other policy that actually would create some lasting positive change to society?”

Wahhhh.

Conservatives don’t share my policy priorities, therefore they aren’t interested in helping anyone!

There are many objective reasons to dislike the current GOP. Your complaint is not one of them.

Riley Riles says:

Re: Re: Re: The US system is just complete trash

I hate conservatives in my own country as much as in the US but I honestly have to say the democrats are so conservative and right wing, people in my county would treat them as quite right and authoritarian of the middle. The problem in the US is that you have a legitimized two-party system and both of them are legitimately just right-auth and worse right-auth. You have to remake the whole system or your county is absolutely fucked. That said the only way I believe this can be accomplished is by actually voting the most egalitarian democrats you can. It is not enough to try and vote wannabe moderates in the US anymore.

mechtheist (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:2

I’m glad somebody got around to mentioning the Dims ain’t much better than the GOP. The Dims keep moving right almost in step with the ever-rightward marching/lurching GOP as it risks falling off the east side of the map. Not sure what you mean by ‘legitimized’, they’re entrenched with so much self-protection it would embarrass medieval guilds. What we need to do is stop the ridiculous and utterly futile ping-ponging back and forth party to party and realize the only way out is to stop voting for either party.

mechtheist (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:4

I don’t think you really made it clear, at least to me, how the Dims have become the rightwing of some few years ago, they’ve become just as corporate as the GOP.

Dims–it’s a great fit, how am I supposed to better that? For a very long time, it’s seemed like the Dims wallowed in their dimness while the GOP did the same in their assholiness, now the Dims are dim assholes and the republicans are crazy assholes.

mechtheist (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:6

I don’t think you appreciate an aspect of word play going on here and that’s the beauty of a pun that enjoys such an exquisite fit that you think the god of puns put his finger in the mix to make it happen. I’m Texan, so ‘dim’ and the ‘dem’ of democrat sound exactly the same, we make no distinction between ‘tint’ and ‘tent’. So the lack of effort, zero effort from one perspective, is what makes it great.

Calicon (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:

Conservatives just want to be left the fuck alone… if men want to wear a dress, who cares… If people want to have a relationship with the same sex, OK go ahead, just don’t make it my problem… do what you want and carry on. You lefties are the ones who will not shut up about race, gender, sexual proclivity, ethnicity… You are literally obsessed with it. And by the way, gun control does not work… If it worked then why do democrats keep wanting to introduce new legislation to the already existing 20,000 laws, what’s wrong with the laws that already exist… Is it possible that they don’t work? Yeah, let’s keep guns out of the hands of criminals by making it more difficult for law-abiding citizens to get firearms… How does that make any fucking sense? And the problem with people who cry about equality is that they are treated equally and that’s what they’re whining about, they want the rights, but not the responsibility.

Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:2

if men want to wear a dress, who cares

I can think of a few people who care enough to protest drag shows while carrying guns with them. Guess which part of the political spectrum they’re on.

If people want to have a relationship with the same sex, OK go ahead, just don’t make it my problem

Guess which political party fought (and still fights) tooth and nail to deny gay people equal rights under the law.

You lefties are the ones who will not shut up about race, gender, sexual proclivity, ethnicity… You are literally obsessed with it.

Guess who’s more obsessed with those things, such that they fight tooth and nail against a legal theory taught only in universities, drag shows, and queer rights in general.

gun control does not work

One political party in particular does its level best to make sure gun control can’t work as effectively as it should⁠—to make the conditions for more mass casualty shootings possible while offering no solutions other than “thoughts and prayers”, “put religion back in schools”, and “fix mental health without also fixing the healthcare system”.

let’s keep guns out of the hands of criminals by making it more difficult for law-abiding citizens to get firearms

My opinion only, but guns should absolutely be difficult to purchase⁠—more difficult than a driver’s license or a home, for that matter. A gun is a tool with a singular use: to wound or kill a living thing. Anything that dangerous should be hard to get through legal channels.

the problem with people who cry about equality is that they are treated equally and that’s what they’re whining about

Funny, then, how conservatives literally cried about same-sex marriage when it became the law of the land (and right before Congress passed that “protecting same-sex marriages” bill a few days ago). Or does that not count?

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Calicon (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:3

I get it now….you don’t want people shoving their religion in your face precisely the way that you want to shove your pronouns in theirs. Yes get rid of guns and people will stop killing each other…that’s genius…of course you have people using pressure cookers and driving cars into crowds. And what rights do gay people not have that everyone else has? And have you ever gone through the legal hurdles of buying a firearm…how would you know it’s easier than getting a license or like Obama said “a library card”? Aside from the legal stuff, you’d still need $500+ first and foremost and how much does a drivers license or library card cost? Nobody cares about drag shows, people just don’t want that crap shoved down their kids’ throats… it’s so wrong for parents wanting to be the ones who instill values in their children and it not be the schools job? Further, CRT in schools…hiding behind semantics doesn’t change the fact that teaching kids that they are evil racists or pathetic victims with the system stacked against them is any less evil. Funny enough, you pontificate about gun control while your imbecile president just released a very dangerous illegal arms dealer back to the Russians while the Russians are in a war that you were told to get all emotional about.

Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:4

you don’t want people shoving their religion in your face precisely the way that you want to shove your pronouns in theirs

Equating proselytizing with people politely asking you to use their preferred pronouns is, at the bare minimum, a heavy signifier that you’re a supremacist of some sort.

get rid of guns and people will stop killing each other

I’ll thank you not to shove words down my throat that didn’t first come from it.

of course you have people using pressure cookers and driving cars into crowds

Pressure cookers and cars have non-violent uses. A gun does not.

what rights do gay people not have that everyone else has?

For starters, 27 states have no explicit protections for LGBTQ people in re: discrimination in employment, housing, and public accomodations.

how would you know it’s easier than getting a license or like Obama said “a library card”?

The overwhelming majority of states let you have a driver’s license if you can pass a driving test and let you keep driving if you can afford insurance and pass driving tests every few years. That same majority of states will also let you buy a gun without having to do anything more than pass a one-time background check. Buying a gun is, by and large, a matter of passing a single test and waiting a few days to plop down the cash; getting and maintaining a license to drive is an ongoing experience over many years. Which one do you think is easier?

Nobody cares about drag shows, people just don’t want that crap shoved down their kids’ throats

The second half of your sentence proves the first half wrong. Also: If you don’t want your kids exposed to drag shows, you don’t have to take them to drag shows. Nobody is forcing anyone to attend a drag show; a not-zero number of people are now protesting drag shows while carrying guns in an attempt to intimidate queer people back into the closet. Maybe you’ll have a point when a law mandates that people of all ages must attend drag shows. But until that day arrives, you’re better off looking at churches if you’re worried about things being shoved down kids’ throats, given how many priests have been (and are still being) arrested for the sexual abuse of children.

CRT in schools…hiding behind semantics doesn’t change the fact that teaching kids that they are evil racists or pathetic victims with the system stacked against them is any less evil

Show me any school that explicitly teaches this lesson. It has to be that exact and explicit message⁠—no hiding behind “oh but it’s in the subtext” or some shit like that. Otherwise, all you’re doing is whining about how history might make some people feel bad. To that, I say this: If learning about history doesn’t make you feel bad, you’re not studying history⁠—you’re reading propaganda.

you pontificate about gun control while your imbecile president just released a very dangerous illegal arms dealer back to the Russians

I bet you think he should’ve left Britney Griner to rot. And the funny thing is, I wouldn’t even have to guess why.

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Calicon (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:5

It amazes me how self unaware you lefties are…politely asking to use pronouns? That’s laughable… First of all people don’t have their own pronouns and secondly I don’t think the adverb politely means what you think it means…. i’m politely asking you to use my pronouns and if you don’t I will have you tar and feathered as transpgobic, get you fired from your job and post your address on the Internet so people can go to your front door and harass you. I literally laughed out loud when I read that portion of your comment.

Rocky says:

Re: Re: Re:6

It amazes me how self unaware you lefties are

You shouldn’t talk about self unaware, Mr I don’t give a shit.

Here’s some advice for you: If you say that you don’t give a shit about people’s gender, race, sexual identity etc you don’t follow that up with denigrating the people who actually do because all it show is that you certainly give a a lot of fucks but are to self absorbed and unware of it. You are one of those who say “I’m not a racist, but…” and proceeds to say the most racist thing ever.

Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:6

First of all people don’t have their own pronouns

And yet, you’d probably get pissed off if people talked with you while using pronouns that didn’t match your gender identity⁠—or maybe even a name that’s not the one you choose to use. Tell me I’m wrong, Callie.

I don’t think the adverb politely means what you think it means

I don’t see you showing me examples of people being assaulted (or worse) for not using someone’s chosen pronouns.

i’m politely asking you to use my pronouns and if you don’t I will have you tar and feathered as transp[h]obic, get you fired from your job and post your address on the Internet so people can go to your front door and harass you

How many times has that exact sequence of events played out? Hell, can you cite even one credible example of that sequence of events happening that isn’t one of those “and then they all clapped”–style meme stories but made up by a TERF to justify anti-trans bigotry?

Rocky says:

Re: Re: Re:2

Conservatives just want to be left the fuck alone… if men want to wear a dress, who cares… If people want to have a relationship with the same sex, OK go ahead, just don’t make it my problem… do what you want and carry on.

Conservatives are “left the fuck alone” when they aren’t misogynistic, racist and in general not acting like assholes in the process of dismantling the US democracy.

You lefties are the ones who will not shut up about race, gender, sexual proclivity, ethnicity…

Funny that, no one would have to speak up about race, gender, sexual proclivity and ethnicity if certain people didn’t persecute and demean others who doesn’t fit into the conservative stereo-type of what constitutes an acceptable person.

You are literally obsessed with it.

Who are these “you”? Regardless, it’s telling that you think promoting equality is obsessing. It’s very simple, if you don’t support equality you either support inequality willingly or passively. And by inequality I mean all the shitty things that stem from racism, misogynism, persecution and a host of other assholish things that the less than gifted do, and I lump passivity into that too.

And by the way, gun control does not work. If it worked then why do democrats keep wanting to introduce new legislation to the already existing 20,000 laws, what’s wrong with the laws that already exist

Yes, in doesn’t work in the US because a lot of people in the US are fucking stupid while letting conservatives gut any legislation the dems put up that would be effective. In a majority of the world gun control works just fine, but the US has become the land of “nuh uh, can’t do” built on dead bodies.

Is it possible that they don’t work? Yeah, let’s keep guns out of the hands of criminals by making it more difficult for law-abiding citizens to get firearms… How does that make any fucking sense?

Fun fact, you are more likely to shot dead if the household has a gun than being killed by a criminal. Also, most of the guns criminals use are from secondary sales, straw purchases and theft from legal owners. TL;DR: Most gun killings perpetrated by criminals are done with guns that initially where legally purchased. I hope you’ll understand the cause and effect here and how to deal with it.

And the problem with people who cry about equality is that they are treated equally and that’s what they’re whining about, they want the rights, but not the responsibility.

It’s telling you don’t understand what you wrote, it’s like a confession of your elevated privilege. Let me now spell it out to you: If people in practice have less rights, then it’s fucking obvious why they talk about wanting equality. And what fucking responsibility are you talking about? Civic duty? Protecting the country? Upholding the law? Speaking up against inequality?

It’s obvious that you think the disenfranchised who speak up should be silent and accept that they shouldn’t have exactly the same rights as you do. Guess what that makes you?

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Calicon (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:3

Black people can’t get IDs hahaha! Everything is misogynistic/sexist, racist, trans phobic, homophobic with you guys… and stop deciding for everyone else what they are supposed to be offended by. Call people Latinx even though I hate it, but it makes YOU feel good to. Geez, I can’t WAIT to hear what trendy sanctimonious bs you’re going to be told to have fake outrage over next week.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:5

Deciding what people should have the right to read… Who is impeding what people can read? It seems to me that you lefties banned classic novels that have been in schools for years like Huckleberry Finn, to kill a mockingbird, the grapes of wrath… All because you found something that marginally resembled a “racist” connotation. Yet you’re concerned that conservatives want to prevent books in schools that are being given to their third graders about gay sex? Dude, wake up… you want to force your ideology on everybody’s kids? Conservatives don’t give a shit what you do at home, but they don’t want it in schools forced upon their children. What are you not getting???

Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:6

Who is impeding what people can read?

That would be the people looking to ban from public and school libraries any books they don’t think other people should have the right to read. That is a near-exclusively conservative group of people these days.

you lefties banned classic novels that have been in schools for years like Huckleberry Finn, to kill a mockingbird, the grapes of wrath

And the bans (proposed or accepted) on queer-friendly books and books about race/racism⁠—what are those, “revenge”? Revenge is a confession of pain; I’m left to wonder what pain is driving these book bans.

All because you found something that marginally resembled a “racist” connotation

Huckleberry Finn and To Kill a Mockingbird both use the N-word, and not in the context of discussing the word as a slur. Something must be up with you if you can’t find “racist connotations” in either of those books based on that fact alone.

Yet you’re concerned that conservatives want to prevent books in schools that are being given to their third graders about gay sex?

Please provide a credible reference to an elementary school library stocking and allowing third grade–aged children to check out a book that features an explicit sex scene involving gay people. I’ll wait.

(ProTip: Gay people existing isn’t any more inherently sexual than straight people existing.)

you want to force your ideology on everybody’s kids?

No. I want kids to have a chance to form their own ideology. That starts with being allowed to read books that some small subset of adults think are dangerous because they feature gay characters in non-sexual situations. A parent has the right to tell their kid “you can’t and shouldn’t read such a book”⁠—but that doesn’t give that one parent the right to tell every other parent “your kids can’t and shouldn’t read such a book” and use legal mechanisms to enforce that belief. Who the fuck are they to deny your child access to information you think your child is mature enough to handle?

Conservatives don’t give a shit what you do at home

They do. But they’re smart enough these days to not say so out loud. I mean, if they didn’t care, why would they still be fighting against the legality of same-sex marriage?

What are you not getting?

The part where you think book bans organized by large conservative groups that target books they deem “leftist” or “dangerous” are worthwhile endeavours instead of censorship.

[F]ree flow of information is the only safeguard against tyranny. The once-chained people whose leaders at last lose their grip on information flow will soon burst with freedom and vitality, but the free nation gradually constricting its grip on public discourse has begun its rapid slide into despotism. Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master. (from Sid Meier’s Alpha Centauri)

mechtheist (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:

White supremacists really isn’t quite right, they’re more white christian nationalists. The religious aspect gives them this utterly undeserved deference even when they’re spewing the most hateful, revisionist rhetoric. Alito actually admitted to having contempt for the 1st Amendment in a speech after Dobbs, saying he sees himself ‘battling secularism’, which pretty much means battling the separation clause. They’re basking in tons of rightwing adoration for their wholesale demolishing of protections for workers, women, POC, and gays.

Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:2

White supremacists really isn’t quite right, they’re more white christian nationalists.

Both groups operate on the assumption that their ideology is superior⁠—supreme, one might say⁠—and should therefore be the law of the land. That one group may be more religious than the other is largely irrelevant when their entire schtick is about asserting the supremacy of their oh-so-similar ideologies upon everyone else.

mechtheist (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:3

You must not be from the states to think religion makes no difference. And saying ‘both groups’ makes no sense since WCN are white supremacists. It’s a mistake to refer to folks who are WCN as white supremacists, it masks the real danger they pose as many of them won’t openly discuss their racist views but they’re there. I would bet the majority of WCNs simply can’t fathom that their religious beliefs are not objectively true. And that’s why they’re so dangerous, they’ve got god on their side. Did you hear how Nick Fuentes called for a dictatorship to “force the people to believe what we believe”, he was talking about core christian beliefs, e.g., gay rights/sodomy, feminism, abortion, but he’s almost universally called a white supremacist, the media has a real aversion to even mention WCN, it’s that deference to religion that they lave out the christian bit. The religious component makes these mfers much more palatable to a LOT of people and that’s shy it matters.

Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:4

You must not be from the states to think religion makes no difference.

I am from the states, and I didn’t say “religion makes no difference”. What I said was that the religious nature of one group compared to the other is irrelevant⁠—and that’s largely because both groups have within them plenty of conservative Christians. One group is less about establishing a theocracy where all other religions are inferior under the law and more about establishing a white ethnostate where all other ethnicities/races are inferior under the law, but both groups would essentially be fine with white people having all of the power.

mechtheist (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:5

To me, ‘largely irrelevant’ and ‘makes no difference’ is pretty close to the same claim. And you basically completely miss my point and I don’t know how to make it more plain. You keep calling them distinct groups, but these groups don’t have well defined boundaries, and, one is a subset of the other–you can’t be a WCN without being a white supremacist. What you completely miss, and it’s the actual issue I’m talking about, is how it’s not, at all, about the differences of these ‘groups’, my point is about failing to identify or acknowledge the christian aspect, calling someone who is a WCN a white supremacist, which makes them seem more fringe than they are while it let’s everyone pretend that religion isn’t a prime motivator of the movement, and this makes it easy to underestimate the real threat.

Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:6

White supremacists want a white ethnostate that would likely also end up being a Christian theocracy. Christian nationalists want a Christian theocracy that, by virtue of most of the people in that movement being white, would likely end up also being a white ethnostate (or close enough to one). The groups have overlap in both membership and motives (because of course they do), but the goals are different in terms of the primary outcome, even if they don’t seem all that different at first glance.

mechtheist (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:7

Jesus, what part of ‘it’s not about the differences in the groups’ don’t you get? You’re adding to the problem by bringing up ‘christian nationalists’, admitting they’re virtually all white and their end goal will end up with a white ethnostate, when the reality is virtually all CN are really WCN. While I view this as suffering the same problem with denying many white supremacists are really WCN, it isn’t what I’ve been talking about, it’s a separate but closely related issue.

Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:8

Jesus, what part of ‘it’s not about the differences in the groups’ don’t you get?

The part where you accuse me of giving more of a shit about the differences than about their end goals. I care about stopping both groups because their ultimate endgame, regardless of motive or primary goal, is to create a country where someone like me can be legally executed on the spot⁠—and not even by law enforcement!⁠—for being queer, atheist, neurodivergent, hateful towards bigots, or any combination thereof. You thinking I give a more of a shit about classification than about stopping those fucks is your problem; you can solve it yourself.

mechtheist (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:9

You REALLY insist on missing my point, completely. If you really care about this, like I do and for the same reasons, then you really ought to stop thinking that the ‘christian’ aspects of whichever grouping you want to use isn’t important, or that it isn’t important that it’s almost never acknowledged or discussed. It’s almost like everyone wants to deny that a LOT of christians are vile racists and that their racism is motivated by and justified with their religious belief. It could not be clearer in all my posts that the groups are irrelevant, it’s the refusal to identify christian religious beliefs as a prime source for, motivating factor behind, and justification for these groups.

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Calicon (profile) says:

Re:

What are you talking about??? You change your narrative and rhetoric from week to week and you’re concerned about other people, namely conservatives not educating themselves? First off, i love “we follow the science” one week then the next it’s “men can have babies”…you lefty’s spent a year calling everything conservatives said about Covid conspiracy theories and most of what they said turned out to be accurate. Not to mention one week it’s “America is an evil empire and the constitution is a racist document” and this week it’s “but, muh democracy!”… you lefties can’t even keep up with your own bullshit, but you tell other people to educate themselves?

mechtheist (profile) says:

Re: Re:

” most of what they said turned out to be accurate”
Does that include that orange thing that was in the Oval Office at the time? Like it was no big deal, be gone in the summer, or how, very early on, we should stop testing, because the positive numbers made him look bad? You know, you can be right about something but for the wrong reasons, sometimes very wrong reasons. If that’s the case, you’re not really right because if your reasoning was full of shit, you’re gonna seriously fuck up down the road trying to keep using it. At a time when those who actually know what’s going on are still groping to figure shit out, it’s real easy to dismiss what they say, but their giving you the best advice from the best informed and brightest minds, only a fool would claim to know better. What most folks seem to misunderstand is how uncertain a lot of that kind of stuff is. When the next one comes around and all the anti-vaxer refuse to get vaccinated, it will be kinda hilarious if it turns out the disease is deadlier than the plague back in medieval times. They won’t get a 2nd chance. COVID could have turned that deadly, still might.

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Anonymous Coward says:

They are all written by people who appear to have (1) no idea what they’re looking at (2) no interest in talking to anyone who does understand it and (3) no concern about presenting them in an extremely misleading light in an effort to push a narrative that is not even remotely supported by what they’re sharing.

The posts so far show limiting reach of candidates running for office, shutting out people who haven’t broken Twitter’s own rules, and Jack Dorsey blatantly lying to Congress.

Your statement applies to you, but you can’t see through your biases.

If Twitter reach is so insignificant, to the point that having government tell Twitter to silence critics of the Democrat Party is standard operating practice, then why the screeching now that Musk is allowing people to speak without fear of being needlessly silenced?

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Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re:

having government tell Twitter to silence critics of the Democrat Party is standard operating practice

Do the “Twitter Files” prove this is happening?

Also: If a “liberal” account gets banned on its first offense, but a “conservative” account goes through multiple warnings and shadowbannings and suspensions before finally getting banned for repeatedly violating the rules, wouldn’t that prove a bias that favors conservatives?

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re:

now that Musk is allowing people to speak without fear of being needlessly silenced?

So Twitter is the end-all be-all social media service that also controls all public space offline, and if your account is banned on Twitter you no longer can speak anywhere in this country and have been silenced?

How does Twitter silence me on Facebook?

How does Twitter silence me on Mastodon?

How does Twitter silence me at the local public house?

How am I supposed to fear being silenced on Twitter when I never use Twitter??

Did you think of any of this before you genuflected to your idol Musk and started kissing his ring?

Christenson says:

Notifications turned off...

Just wondering what the word is for an account where the notifications for replies and such have been silently turned off.

I’m thinking of a certain science-denying idiot that I respond to from time to time, but Twitter will not tell me anymore when he responds to me.

What’s the word for that?

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Matthew M Bennett says:

Re: Re: Re:

…..no, they weren’t actually. The FBI lied and SAID they were, but they absolutely were not. It was all manufactured off the hearsay of just one guy.

Vs here, we have emails, DMs, slack chats, it’s not the same thing at all.

This kinda false equivalency is only possible by a huge partisan.

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Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:2

The FBI lied and SAID they were, but they absolutely were not.

Except some of the information in the Steele Dossier was confirmed to be legit⁠—specifically, Putin favoring Trump in 2016 and Trump campaign officials/associates having contact with Russian officials/spies. That the rest of it was bogus doesn’t take away from the stuff that it got right.

here, we have emails, DMs, slack chats

And none of those things point to an overt government order to silence conservatives or an overt conspiracy between Twitter employees to squash specific information on Twitter forever or anything like that⁠—as Mike has pointed out in other articles and comments. You’re trying to turn a lone pebble into a mighty mountain and shit doesn’t work that way, son.

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Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:4

Yoth was meeting weekly with the FBI/DHS. No, I’m sorry, there is not a legitimate reason to do that.

Off the top of my head, I can think of a couple: coördinating on any efforts to combat CSAM/bring down CSAM producers and distributors, and the FBI/DHS offering general warnings (that Twitter can absolutely ignore!) about potential vectors of attack via mis- and disinformation (among other things). You still haven’t shown that the meetings were for the purposes of government-ordered censorship; given how you refuse to back up your claims with evidence, I’m not sure why you think I owe your arguments any credibility/respect.

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Bloof (profile) says:

Re:

Let’s run down the people who were charged witbh actual crimes as a result of ‘Russiagate’.

Paul Manafort: Sentenced to seven and a half years in prison for financial crimes.

Konstantin Kilimnik: Charged with obstruction of justice

Trump confidant Roger Stone: Convicted of lying to Congress

Michael Flynn: Pleaded guilty to lying to investigators

Rick Gates: Pleaded guilty to lying to investigators

Michael Cohen: Pleaded guilty to tax and bank charges, campaign finance violations and lying to Congress

George Papadopoulos: Served 12 days in prison for lying to investigators

Alex van der Zwaan: Served 30 days in prison for lying to investigators

Richard Pinedo: Sentenced to six months in prison for identity theft

Sam Patten: Pleaded guilty to failing to register as a foreign lobbyist

Bijan Kian and Skim Alptekin: Charged with conspiring to violate lobbying laws

The Russian Internet Research Agency: Charged with distributing Russian propaganda.

12 Russian Military Officers: Charged with the DNC hack.

There were actual crimes prosecuted and more that went unpunished because of the widespread obstruction of justice and the abuse of the machinery of government… Meanwhile, on the Twitter files there is zero illegal activity by a private company and the actions they did take were to hurt right wing feefees by stopping people spamming Hunter Biden’s dick pics (Which count as revenge porn and were banned by twitter rules and california law where the company is based) and banning conservative figures after a few dozen breaches of the terms and conditions they agreed to when signing up, while everyone else gets booted by bots with no room for appeal after the first.

Clearly the two things are directly comparable, both sides are just the same, guys!

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Matthew M Bennett (user link) says:

You STILL haven’t issued a retraction or mea culpa. You have been wrong about EVERYTHING regarding Musk and Twitter.

1) Twitter was shadow-banning (ahem, “visibility filtering”) people and entire ideological grounds. Not “violence” or “hate speech” (which ALSO tends to mean anything a liberal disagrees with). Just opinions or people they disagreed with.
a) Gadde, who you love so much, was part of that. And she was very much lying when she wrote a blog post claiming Twitter didn’t do that.
b) so was Sam Baker, who was a big part of Russia Gate.

2) Much of this was government directed. Yoel Roth was meeting with FBI and DHS WEEKLY from about a month before the election through January.

3) There was a written policy (which I personally don’t agree with to start) and Twitter execs routinely ignored it for political purposes.

You can throw as much shade at Musk and dream up false moral equivalencies as you want, it won’t change that you have been proven to be dramatically wrong. You have NO credibility on this issue. Go back to covering IP law, you hack.

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Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re:

Twitter was shadow-banning (ahem, “visibility filtering”) people and entire ideological grounds. Not “violence” or “hate speech” (which ALSO tends to mean anything a liberal disagrees with). Just opinions or people they disagreed with.

So what? Truth Social does that but I don’t see you yelling at Trump to change his mind.

Much of this was government directed. Yoel Roth was meeting with FBI and DHS WEEKLY from about a month before the election through January.

Can you prove that Yoel Roth was meeting with the FBI and DHS for the sole and specific purpose of shadowbanning/“silencing” Twitter accounts based on political ideology/party affiliation?

There was a written policy (which I personally don’t agree with to start) and Twitter execs routinely ignored it for political purposes.

Isn’t Musk ignoring policies set forth by Twitter prior to his arrival by gutting the team that works on CSAM-related issues? Isn’t Musk also ignoring the massive privacy risk that presents itself by his giving Taibbi, Weiss, etc. unheard-of access to Twitter’s inner workings⁠—which may include access to the behind-the-scenes information and private messages of actual Twitter accounts?

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re:

Show us the fucking court orders then.

I am very sure that there will be a fucking paper trail for that shit.

Singapore has issued takedowns for shit the PAP does not like (and there are A LOT of things the PAP does not like) and these takedowns have actual fucking paper trails and shit.

I am very sure there’s SLAM DUNK EVIDENCE if the American Government is attempting to bypass the First Amendment that would legit piss off people. Unfortunately for you, there’s been none of that proving your white supremacist bullshit… yet. And I hope it NEVER reveals itself.

No, the stuff you are attempting to pretzel twist into some sort of “evidence” disproves all your claims.

Please, stop harassing people. You are a fucking terrorist.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:

…which was widely reported on?

You still have not shown me anything resembling a paper trail. Those meeting minutes are FOIAble and hell, THIS SITE has discussed those meetings.

There’s actual people in the comments actually talking about these meetings. In the same articles discussing said meetings.

The fact you are harassing the users of this site based on what is essentially, race-based fascist bullshit makes YOU a terrorist. That’s not me, that’s the FBI calling your bullshit and actions a verifiable threat to America.

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Koby (profile) says:

A Tool Is Not A Policy

…took a word that meant something real, and turned it into any kind of de-amplification.

Not just any kind of de-amplification, but SECRET de-amplification. The Twitter Files from this weekend demonstrate how Twitter 1.0 was violating their own policies behind the scenes to manipulate the results.

that tweets do get ranked and can be minimized in the algorithm, search, and replies.

False. The cases being discussed were being manually controlled by the Twitter 1.0 Star Chamber. The algorithm wasn’t sufficient, so Twitter higher-ups decided to press their thumb on the scales.

saying the company’s “new” policy “is freedom of speech, but not freedom of reach” and that “negative” tweets “will be max deboosted.”

This is where the original intent of section 230 diverges with modern leftists. The traditional supporters define negative messaging with specificity, such as obscenity, threats of violence, and doxxing. Leftists define any disagreement as “hate speech”. The leftist definition is not the classic definition, and that’s where the policy has hopefully changed. While I’m far from convinced that Elon is the savior of free speech, it’s a way better solution than the biased system that worked behind the scenes in the past.

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Koby (profile) says:

Re:

So Twitter is the end-all be-all social media service that also controls all public space offline, and if your account is banned on Twitter you no longer can speak anywhere in this country and have been silenced?

It is the modern Digital Town Hall. It’s very important, particularly because it frontruns the tv news cycle by a few hours. The discussion that occurs on twitter is what gets reported to millions on the nightly broadcast.

East Germans could often discuss whatever they wanted within the confines of their own homes, but we know they were being censored. Being able to freely communicate somewhere does not mean censorship is not occurring.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re:

It is the modern Digital Town Hall.

You can wish it to be that way as much as you want, but Twitter is not the “digital town hall”.

Simply put, Twitter is tiny compared to most other social media sites in terms of active users, and a vast majority of the population does NOT use Twitter.

Also, why is it that people like you and Chozen, both of you always want to be taken as smart people, don’t understand how threaded comment sections work. This was obviously a reply to a previous comment, but instead of replying, you started a new thread.

No wonder you people act like you do, just plain ol’ fucking stupidity.

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Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:

The opinion in Packingham referred to social media as a “modern public square”. But it didn’t create a legal right to use any social media service in the sense that, say, Twitter can’t boot someone off for posting legal speech that Twitter would otherwise refuse to host. You may want to familiarize yourself with that decision beyond a single phrase that doesn’t do what you think it does to the law.

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Chozen (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:2

“But it didn’t create a legal right to use any social media service in the sense that,”

You don’t know if it did or it didn’t. Supreme Court precedence moves slowly. We are still working out Heller across the country and that was a 2008 decision. After Brown it took over 2 decades for desegregation to take effect in most aspects.

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Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:3

You don’t know if it did or it didn’t.

Manhattan Community Access Corp. v. Halleck backs my assertion, not yours:

Under the Court’s cases, a private entity may qualify as a state actor when it exercises “powers traditionally exclusively reserved to the State.” … It is not enough that the federal, state, or local government exercised the function in the past, or still does. And it is not enough that the function serves the public good or the public interest in some way. Rather, to qualify as a traditional, exclusive public function within the meaning of our state-action precedents, the government must have traditionally and exclusively performed the function.

The Court has stressed that “very few” functions fall into that category. … Under the Court’s cases, those functions include, for example, running elections and operating a company town. … The Court has ruled that a variety of functions do not fall into that category, including, for example: running sports associations and leagues, administering insurance payments, operating nursing homes, providing special education, representing indigent criminal defendants, resolving private disputes, and supplying electricity. …

When the government provides a forum for speech (known as a public forum), the government may be constrained by the First Amendment, meaning that the government ordinarily may not exclude speech or speakers from the forum on the basis of viewpoint, or sometimes even on the basis of content[.]

By contrast, when a private entity provides a forum for speech, the private entity is not ordinarily constrained by the First Amendment because the private entity is not a state actor. The private entity may thus exercise editorial discretion over the speech and speakers in the forum. This Court so ruled in its 1976 decision in Hudgens v. NLRB. There, the Court held that a shopping center owner is not a state actor subject to First Amendment requirements such as the public forum doctrine[.]

The Hudgens decision reflects a commonsense principle: Providing some kind of forum for speech is not an activity that only governmental entities have traditionally performed. Therefore, a private entity who provides a forum for speech is not transformed by that fact alone into a state actor. After all, private property owners and private lessees often open their property for speech. Grocery stores put up community bulletin boards. Comedy clubs host open mic nights. As Judge Jacobs persuasively explained, it “is not at all a near-exclusive function of the state to provide the forums for public expression, politics, information, or entertainment[”.]

In short, merely hosting speech by others is not a traditional, exclusive public function and does not alone transform private entities into state actors subject to First Amendment constraints.

If the rule were otherwise, all private property owners and private lessees who open their property for speech would be subject to First Amendment constraints and would lose the ability to exercise what they deem to be appropriate editorial discretion within that open forum. Private property owners and private lessees would face the unappetizing choice of allowing all comers or closing the platform altogether. “The Constitution by no means requires such an attenuated doctrine of dedication of private property to public use.” … Benjamin Franklin did not have to operate his newspaper as “a stagecoach, with seats for everyone.” … That principle still holds true. As the Court said in Hudgens, to hold that private property owners providing a forum for speech are constrained by the First Amendment would be “to create a court-made law wholly disregarding the constitutional basis on which private ownership of property rests in this country.” … The Constitution does not disable private property owners and private lessees from exercising editorial discretion over speech and speakers on their property. …

A private entity … who opens its property for speech by others is not transformed by that fact alone into a state actor.

So do the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals ruling in Prager University v. Google LLC and the Eleventh Circuit Court of Appeals ruling in NetChoice v. Attorney General, State of Florida, which both came after⁠—and cited⁠—Halleck. If’n you want to prove my point wrong, you have to overcome the obstacle of three separate legal citations, one of which is a Supreme Court ruling authored by a Trump-appointed associate justice.

Good luck, Mr. Public House-ing. 😁

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Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:5

A true public square, which is to say a piece of land owned by the public/the government, can’t impose limits on speech that is legally protected. The government may be able to set reasonable restrictions such as when people can speak on that public square, but those restrictions must be content agnostic.

Twitter is not a true public square. As Halleck says: “A private entity … who opens its property for speech by others is not transformed by that fact alone into a state actor.” Twitter is a private entity; its property⁠—the servers on which Twitter is stored⁠—is not a true public square. No one is entitled to say whatever they want on Twitter; if Twitter wants to ban transphobic speech (or trans-supportive speech), it can do that without any sort of legal penalty.

You can’t cite any law or binding legal precedent that proves my assertions to be wrong. If you could’ve, you would’ve, but you haven’t, so you can’t.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:

you fucking moron.

How many times do I need to remind you that you are the fucking moron that doesn’t know the difference between a public house and public housing?

How many times do I need to remind you that you are the fucking moron that doesn’t know how trespass laws work?

How many times do I need to remind you that you are the fucking moron that doesn’t know how threaded comment sections work?

How many times do I need to remind you that you are the fucking moron that the Texas AG will not be able to use “must carry” laws to force DirecTV to carry OAN?

How many times do I need to remind you that you are the fucking moron in this comments section?

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:3

Don’t forget, he’s also the fucking moron who thinks rape is funny.

Chozen’s the sort of person who not only thinks it’s insightful to mock a man for not being masculine enough, but also thinks it’s a point of pride to boast about the femboy/non-binary vtuber he’s pegging this week.

And yet he thinks Trump or some other Republican is going to fight for his right to groom insecure little boys. You cannot make this sort of shit up.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:

USENET is the only real “town hall” and the public didn’t want it. It has total free speech and no owner, a first-amendment utopia.

Tell me you’ve never administered a USENET server without telling my you’ve never administered a USENET server.

The first thing that I filtered when I admin’ed a usenet server was the CSAM groups.

And yes, I (my company) owned our USENET server that we made available to our customers, and we did filter out specific groups. I could have been much more aggressive if I had wanted to, but there was nothing to prevent me from filtering any group I wanted.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re:

The discussion that occurs on twitter is what gets reported to millions on the nightly broadcast.

By your own statement, Twitter is not the Digital Town Hall. If it were, why wouldn’t all the millions of people be on Twitter instead of watching nightly news broadcasts?

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Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re:

It is the modern Digital Town Hall.

It’s still a privately owned service, though. Musk could shut it down tomorrow and the federal government couldn’t do shit to stop that from happening.

Being able to freely communicate somewhere does not mean censorship is not occurring.

I’d like to share part of a quote from Sid Meier’s Alpha Centauri here because it has some bearing on what I’m about to say:

Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master.

Framing censorship as the loss of a platform you don’t own only ever waters down the meaning of the word. When censorship means “anything that stops me from speaking to the audience I think I deserve”, it effectively means nothing.

Framing censorship as an attempt to deny people access to information is a far more sincere and good-faith definition. Censorship is about denying people access to information in one way or another⁠—about silencing (or trying to silence) voices through book bans, lawsuits, threats (or actual acts) of violence, and so forth. Those who would deny people the right to access this information can rightfully be called censors.

Now comes the million dollar question: How can people getting kicked off Twitter be censorship when, as everyone from Laura Loomer to Alex Jones to Donald Trump has proven, Twitter can’t deny anyone the ability to seek out and hear/read what those people have to say?

When you can answer that and account for the “I have been silenced” fallacy in your answer, you go ahead and post that answer. Until then, I have another question for you.

Yes or no, Koby: Do you believe the government should have the legal right to compel any privately owned interactive web service into hosting legally protected speech that the owners/operators of said service don’t want to host?

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Bloof (profile) says:

Re:

Twitter was my only form of social media for a decade, and I left when Elon announced he was buying the company and went to Mastodon. I was in no way deprived of a ‘town hall’, nor was I silenced, I had alternatives and when I felt I had no choice but to make the move, I did so because I’m a functional adult and not an entitled manchild who spends their time screaming persecution or making up new and creative justifications for why they should get their way at all times.

Twitter is not a townhall, if I want to contact politicians, I have plenty of means to do so that don’t require me to use to Elon’s personal fiefdom.

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Kara (profile) says:

@Mmasnick posts on Twitter are blocked

Hi Mike Masnick,

Sorry to post to this story about something slightly outside the subject matter (maybe?) but I wanted to let you know that your Twitter profile now lists your @mmasnick account as protected.
“This account’s tweets are protected.
Only confirmed followers have access to @mmasnick’s tweets”

Along with @Popehat who I also read daily.

I don’t have a Twitter account for a variety of reasons but I do read your posts, Ken White’s, and a few others. Last night my time (22:00 GMT+1) I was still able to access your feeds via nitter but today at 9:30 your account became “protected” and @popehat.

I assume you didn’t set it as protected and just wanted to let you know

fairuse (profile) says:

Twitter was fun before politicans and activits moved in

Question: Forum moderation, show of hands if you did that thankless task. I have done that and it is a pain. Of course evolution has brought users to “social media” because everyone can play, including the worst kind of humanity.

I put a mashup of audio clips and the old Twitter layout on youtube in 2018. Basic idea was Twitter was not fun anymore and the 11 minute video is a editorial on human nature. Also, a commentary on keeping an open mind so open that brain falls on the floor.

The current ruler of Twitter has made that video age well in my opinion. NOTE: Because _tube is insane on mashups here is the unlisted URL of, “NSFW (lang) – Kill Fail Whale – Old Twitter”, age restriction –

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H78R-Qse3qs

If this little opinion is in bad taste so be it. I am not going to validate culture war just point out nothing is ever forever in dealing with meddling speech.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re:

The problem is that who is an a-hole is subjective.

So…

a person that constantly uses racial slurs is not an objective asshole?

a person that wishes harm and death to all LGBTQ+ people is not an objective asshole?

a person that resorts to threats of violence is not an objective asshole?

a person that believes he is your superior and makes statements that reflects his belief is not an objective asshole?

I could go on and on… but as you can see, most people would find that the average MAGA GQP person being moderated for the activity listed above, is objectively an asshole.

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Chozen (profile) says:

Re: Re:

“Social media allows users to gain
access to information and communicate with one another
about it on any subject that might come to mind. Supra,
at 5. By prohibiting sex offenders from using those websites, North Carolina with one broad stroke bars access to
what for many are the principal sources for knowing current events, checking ads for employment, speaking and
listening in the modern public square, and otherwise
exploring the vast realms of human thought and
knowledge.” Packingham v. North Carolina

Shut the fuck up you moron.

Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:

Again: Packingham doesn’t declare social media sites to be true public squares (i.e., public property that can’t restrict legal speech). It declares that government attempts to ban registered sex offenders from using any social media service is a violation of their civil rights. The phrase “the modern public square” isn’t a declaration of law, but a flourish of speech⁠—because Twitter isn’t public property and nothing short of a government takeover of Twitter will change that fact.

Toom1275 (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:2

What someone literate, unlike chozen, would read from that passage is that censorship is the government saying “You can’t do that anywhere” and preventing him from being able to browse the actual public square , the internet, for anyone willing to lend them their private bullhorn.

Instead chozen hallucinates out of whole cloth that a bullhorn is a public square and not lending it is the real censorship.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re:

Democrats: Musk is going to destroy the political town hall that is Twitter!

Bullshit!!

Show me a single democrat that believes that the current political town hall is centrally located on Twitter and nowhere else.

I guess politicians don’t use Instagram, nor Facebook, nor any of the other social media sites available.

Twitter is a private business, and Elmo Musk can do whatever-the-fuck he wants, up to and including burning it to the ground. And I don’t think democrats would give a shit as it’s only been the whiney republicans who cry when they lose their access to Twitter for acting like assholes.

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Chozen (profile) says:

Re: Re:

Packingham specifically called social media the modern public square.

“SOCIAL MEDIA allows users to gain access to information and communicate with one another about it on any subject that might come to mind. By prohibiting sex offenders from using those websites, North Carolina with one broad stroke bars access to what for many are the principal sources for knowing current events, checking ads for employment, speaking and listening in the modern public square, and otherwise exploring the vast realms of human thought and
knowledge.”

Remember the law in question didn’t prevent sex offenders from accessing the internet. It prevented them from having social media accounts.

Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:

Remember the law in question didn’t prevent sex offenders from accessing the internet. It prevented them from having social media accounts.

That was ruled to be a violation of the civil rights of those sex offenders. Content moderation wasn’t. The ruling also didn’t declare privately owned social media services to be true public squares, such that those services cannot moderate any legally protected speech without facing legal penalty. If you think you can prove otherwise by doing something other than citing that one paragraph over and over like that makes your point stronger (ProTip: it doesn’t), now would be a good time to do that.

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Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:3

There is no such legal qualifier as “true public square” you are making shit up as usual.

Maybe not in that exact language, but the difference between a true “public square” and a metephorical one is who owns it. Twitter is privately owned (as it was before Musk bought it); it can’t be a public square in the sense that it must host all legal speech precisely because it isn’t public property. The government can no more tell Twitter what legal speech it can or can’t host than it can tell you to do the same with a website you own. Neither Packingham nor Pruneyard say otherwise; your desperate pleas to the contrary don’t (and won’t ever) make them say otherwise.

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Calicon (profile) says:

Re: Re:

No, no…I’m talking about the DNC and Joe’s campaign flagging what they’re deeming “misinformation” and specifically asking Twitter to review the posts/profiles. I’m not concerned about Twitter getting tips on possible malware. When you have government literally deciding for us what is and what isn’t “misinformation” that is a direct attack to free speech… only the government can censor and that exactly what this is.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:

When you have government literally deciding for us what is and what isn’t “misinformation” that is a direct attack to free speech… only the government can censor and that exactly what this is.

Considering that the DNC is a private entity, and Biden was not in office, it was nothing more than two organizations having discussions about moderation. Twitter was in no legal requirement to listen to the Biden campaign, and the Biden campaign was not breaking any laws when asking Twitter to moderate certain posts.

Remember, the orange Turd King was the government when this transpired, and Biden wasn’t.

So, how could this be the “government literally deciding for us …” when the Biden campaign was literally NOT the government?

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Calicon (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:2

The orange turd king wasn’t president or in government when he was supposedly colluding with russia so by your own rationale those investigations were a colossal waste of time.

You can skirt the point by hiding behind semantics and technicalities…”technically Biden wasn’t in government” blah, blah, blah….this was an ex-vice president and an ex-US senator…what I’m concerned about is the purpose Biden and DNC were serving and that was indeed to influence/sway an election.

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Chozen (profile) says:

Re: Re:

Under what law did the FBI have any authority to be “policing misinformation.”

You fucking morons actually believed that it was ever illegal for Russia to buy Facebook adds. It wasn’t you fucking idiots. Muller never charged anyone with spreading disinformation. The charges Mueller brought were various fraud statues because Concord Management was alleged to have hid funding, people etc. No charges were ever brought for “misinformation” because there is no such crime.

FYI Mueller team had to drop all charges because they had no case.

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Ninja (profile) says:

The whole problem is that we have an asshole man-child with tons of money to put himself in charge of a nice platform effectively bringing his assholeness to millions of users.

Now we have an asshole in Russia with nukes, one asshole onh Twitter with power to boost very problematic speech (and speech he agrees with in his narrow, bigoted, assholish view of the world), one asshole clown in Ukraine with a lot of weaponry backup from the west ignoring the nazi problem festering in his yard… Assholes are winning. And we are going to pay dearly for this.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re:

If you’re talking about the Azov movement, a friend of mine who is a lot closer to the ground in Ukraine than me has told me the Azov Battalion’s HQ was hit TWICE, once by UKRANIAN fire, and then again by Russian fire.

The Ukrainians DO NOT like their burgeoning NeoNazi movement.

And that the damn NeoNazis in Ukraine are politically insignificant.

Yes, the Azovs gaining ANY sort of political relevancy is concerning, but that’s a thing that was happening throughout Europe for a while. Aided, presumably, by Russia and the Wagner Group, who are funded by the damn Russians as well.

At least give the Ukrainians some credit, they hate their NeoNazis as much as we do.

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