Free Speech Absolutist Elon Musk Demands Take Down Of (Likely Misleading) Videos Of Teslas Running Over Child-Sized Mannequins

from the running-over-kids dept

It appears that free speech absolutist Elon Musk is, once again, not such a fan of free speech when it criticizes him or his companies. Perhaps he’s too busy penning columns for China’s official internet censor to know this, but given other reports about how much he micromanages things happening at Tesla, you have to assume he’s well aware that Tesla’s lawyers are busy sending cease-and-desist letters to a group called The Dawn Project, which produced a (likely sketchy — read ahead) commercial attacking Tesla’s “Full Self-Driving” (FSD) claims. You can see the commercial here:

Electrek has noted, pretty convincingly, that the footage in the ad is, at best, misleading. And possibly directly deceptive. In some of the footage it appears that FSD wasn’t properly engaged, and in follow-up footage where it is shown to be engaged the end result is not identical to the parts shown in the video. In other words, the video is questionable, at best.

And, the guy behind The Dawn Project is not reacting particularly well to questions being raised about the tests he ran. He calls the reporter from Electrek, Fred Lambert, “a moron” and refuses to answer his questions. It’s not a good look.

That said, even as it looks like FSD was not engaged in at least some of the tests, it seems notable that the driver seems to think it’s engaged, which seems like a health hazard in its own way.

Incredibly, as the Washington Post notes, this ad resulted in one of Musk’s biggest stans literally trying to recreate the “test” in the ad… with real kids.

To be fair, that dude did run the experiment (with both child mannequins and real humans) and the FSD did not run over anyone (phew) … but also the video of him testing it out has been removed from YouTube for violating community guidelines.

I saw the video before it was removed from YouTube, and I’m guessing the concern was… that it might encourage others to test FSD running over kids? I dunno. I think the video was fine and probably should have been left online. (Update: YouTube says it was taken down because “YouTube doesn’t allow content showing a minor participating in dangerous activities or encouraging minors to do dangerous activities.”)

All that said, having your lawyers send an angry cease-and-desist doesn’t seem very free speechy. The takedown demands that The Dawn Project remove the video, issue a public retraction, “disclose all sources of funding for the purported ‘tests’,” and “disclose all recognized regulatory agencies that endorsed your testing methodology and/or results.”

And if it’s true that the commercial is misleading, you can certainly understand why Tesla and Musk would be ticked off about the videos. But a true “free speech absolutist” would counter the videos with more speech debunking them, and not with legal threats demanding not just silence, but detailed information on funding.

Honestly, this is a case where no one comes out of this looking very good (well, Elektrek’s reporting looks good).

But, the underlying issue is here: if full self-driving is going to actually be safe and productive (which would be great, and which I’d still like to come to pass), then Tesla needs to be upfront about it and open to discussing its potential flaws and responding to critics. And, even when that criticism may be exaggerated or problematic, just the fact that Telsa immediately resorts to the legal threats is somewhat chilling even for those who might make a more competent study of the issue. As we’ve documented in the past, Musk has a bit of a history of shutting down more trustworthy critics as well.

And, indeed, in an even more recent Elektrek article by Lambert, it’s noted that Musk is directly telling FSD beta testers to stop complaining about problems with FSD.

That’s also not at all free speech supporting, and is kind of worrisome. We should want beta testers to be critical. That’s how the technology gets better and it’s how we all are more likely to get a safer system out of all of this. And, telling the testers to shut up isn’t helping anyone.

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Companies: tesla, the dawn project

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Comments on “Free Speech Absolutist Elon Musk Demands Take Down Of (Likely Misleading) Videos Of Teslas Running Over Child-Sized Mannequins”

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76 Comments
Samuel Abram (profile) says:

Re:

Yeah. I’m a tester for Dots, which is part of Take-Two Interactive. We’re going to release Garden Tails soon.

Musk saying that we shouldn’t complain about buggy betas is ridiculous. Why did Musk share them then if not to fix the bugs and solicit feedback? Not only does it paint him as a hypocrite, it paints him as a bad project manager.

William Null says:

Re: Re: Re: You're correct.

Musk isn’t listening to feedback. Because he isn’t the one who codes FSD. He has people for that. That’s why you need to report bugs and suggestions through appropriate channels, like support form or bug tracking software Tesla uses. Twitter, YouTube, Facebook, etc. aren’t the proper venues to share said feedback, as there Musk’s staff (you know, people who actually work on the FSD and not bankroll it) has much slimmer chances of actually noticing it.

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Naughty Autie says:

Re:

I really hope he doesn’t ask someone he sleeps with if his penis is large enough.

Actually, Musk boasted that he needed two hands to handle his dick, and I said, “Yeah, one hand to push aside your pubes and the other to hold the magnifying glass.” 😈

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Anonymous Coward says:

The Dawn Project’s videos are possibly defamatory. I don’t blame Musk for trying to take down the videos. (Of course, Musk is an idiot to be going around saying along the lines of “don’t criticize FSD if you are a beta tester”. Criticism is literally what beta tests are for.) There is one reason to keep the video up: it serves as evidence that FSD works. Of course, there’s also plenty of evidence that FSD doesn’t work. TechGeek Tesla ran some tests and got mixed results because FSD doesn’t mind crashing into (what it thinks are) non-human obstacles.

These tests are for answering the question of whether inattentive driver with FSD is better than an inattentive driver in a non-Tesla car. Even if these tests fail, FSD may still be worthwhile if an attentive driver with FSD is better than an attentive driver in a non-Tesla car.

Cowardly and Anonymous says:

Why the constant references to China when dealing with US and European business leaders who constantly butt heads with China? If you joked about him working with American politicians, the attempt at humor (I’m guessing) might be slightly topical. But I never see you guys comparing them to Turkish censors, or those in South Korea, or any of the endless three letter agencies.

Is there a particular reason for this?

Anonymous Coward says:

And the elephant in the room is...

The man behind the “Dawn Project” is Dan O’down, president and CEO of GreenHills software. If you look at the GreenHills software website, you will find that one of their advertised products is autonomous driving (see https://www.ghs.com/products/auto_adas.html). Sort of hidden – maybe because of this broohaha? Anyway, O’dowd has a direct interest in slowing/harming Tesla FSD.

Now, the Dawn Project video is not just sketchy. First, the narrow lane of double cones could be (and in my view probably is) specifically designed to prevent the Tesla software from veering to avoid the “child” dummy. Next, the video is shot in 640×480, and the resolution is too low to read the alerts on the screen, but you can see them change length. The longer one appears to be the same length as the warning a driver gets when “in FSD” and is pressing on the accelerator. In case you don’t know, the driver pressing on the accelerator pedal override FSD breaking. So, what appears to be happening here is a cone-marked lane pointed straight at the “child” where a Tesla in “FSD” is driven with the driver overriding the “FSD” breaking. Surprisingly, this results in a collision. To be absolutely clear, if the surmises are true (and the evidence supports them as much as is possible), this is not a case of Tesla software “killing” a child, it is a case of experiment designers and the driver for the experiment consciously and deliberately driving over the “child” dummy, then claiming it was a software error.

If the surmise is true (and the evidence strongly points that way), this is not “sketchy”, this is outright fraud. There is even a financial motive.

Now, there is plenty of room to debate whether the software should allow a driver to override it. This can be argued either way, and it’s not hard to come up with scenarios where you want the driver to have ultimate control and others where you want the software to have that control. But at present, the driver can override the software and O’Dowd’s foundation is using that to lie about Tesla – or, at least, appears to be doing so.

For those who think Tesla shouldn’t react this way, here’s something to think about: If I made a fake video showing you murder someone and put it online, should you be able to force me to take it down? Because that’s pretty much what appears to be happening here.

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Unadulterated Poppycock says:

Re:

Interesting and insightful analysis. But you will find no legitimate discourse here–this forum is dominated by military/NGO/Big Pharma/ intel trolls/Musk haters who will no doubt, flag your post off the forum.

You analysis of video resolution is excelent,and this is really good:

this is not a case of Tesla software “killing” a child, it is a case of experiment designers and the driver for the experiment consciously and deliberately driving over the “child” dummy, then claiming it was a software error

Agreed: it’s a hit piece. This forum LOVES that kind of stuff. Musk, love him or hate him has issues with free speech, but tolerating libel, slander, and defamation is not one of them.

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AC destroyer says:

Re:

Interesting and insightful analysis. But you will find no legitimate discourse here–this forum is dominated by military/NGO/Big Pharma/ intel trolls/Musk haters who will no doubt, flag your post off the forum.

You analysis of video resolution is excelent,and this is really good:

this is not a case of Tesla software “killing” a child, it is a case of experiment designers and the driver for the experiment consciously and deliberately driving over the “child” dummy, then claiming it was a software error 

Agreed: it’s a hit piece. This forum LOVES that kind of stuff. Musk, love him or hate him has issues with free speech, but tolerating libel, slander, and defamation is not one of them.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re:

Interesting and insightful analysis. But you will find no legitimate discourse in my “comments”–my pronouncements are dominated by military/NGO/Big Pharma/intel trolling/Musk sycophancy which will, no doubt, lead my posts to be flagged into invisibility.

FTFY, and per your frequent requests, I’ve flagged your post too.

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Anonymous A-hole Problem says:

Re: Re: Re:

And I, yours, schismogeneticist! And thanks for working for FREE. Flag this one too>>>>>>

Meanwhile, about your mental health:

Feedback Loops Create Autism

It could be the case that this condition can be clearly evidenced to be a disorder of stress-fuelled and co-reinforcing vicious and virtuous cycles whose components are all the known associated symptomatic traits; which themselves arise initially as a response to external stressors (which can still further promote them); but whose implementation promotes even more stress, thus making them seem more “necessary” to the afflicted individual (a feedback loop).

Apply the entire Covid script under these protocols and we can see the highest level controlling factor at play, they are creating feedback loops and thus a form of Autism in the populations through the presentation of events via the media, in all its forms. This is inclusive but not limited to, art, music, film and theatre.

And especially THIS, about YOU:

What we call the Hegelian Dialectic can be transferred to the title Schismogenesis, they are the same mechanic with the latter allowing for a deeper insight into how the priesthood achieves behaviour change, and, the ability of control over the masses.

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Free "Speach" says:

Re: Re: Re:2

C’mon, say “dickcheese” again, sick puppy!>>>>>>>

Do you eat that with cracker’s or are “ethnic” people allowed at your dickcheese soire’?>>>>>>>>>>>>

dickwadsmegmapenisbreathface.>>>>>>>>>>>>

You know you want to>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

But first, read up on your uniquesociopathic tendencies, as a woman, but also, as an AC-hole.

Curiously, it doesn’t mention dickcheese fetishing tho’>>>>>>>>>>>

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:5

So far, its “Dickcheese Techdirt moderator v. Real Human’s who DGAF about penis smegma like YOU do.

You’re not a moderator on any site, never mind this one which doesn’t have any.

Go die, already. We like it when AI-bots like you self implode.

Good advice, DBA Phillip K. Dickcheese. Now please follow it.

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Free "Peach" NOW! says:

Re: Re: Re:4

It’s not my blog, sis–nice scat reference too!

But it is a much more interesting take on your sociopathic condition(1)–but thanks AC-hole, for your incredibly insightful comment!

(1) the ableist term sociopath has been replaced by Anti Social Personality Disorder (ASPD),yet another evasive Big Pharma rethinking of weaponized psychological labels

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The True And Only Fake Jesus says:

Re: Re: Re:6

Evil in your conception is exactly that: evil in your conception (1). Your mother should have aborted you.

But thanks for once again showing the public that your true intention here is spouting thinly veiled religious doctrine.

(1) Evil like yours was brought into existence by two stupid people, one of whom thought they were having butt sex with a man, the other of whom looked like a butt, but was in fact a clever breeder disguised as a child of feminist liberation. Boy was he surprised when that sloppy chasm turned out to be her biofronthole! Then, her failure–by design– to have a legal-then abortion, and because of confusion about concepts of sin Don’t seek to put the blame for your religious concept of sins on others. And please stop your proselytizing here, Insurrection Barbie.

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Fyodor Dostoyevsky says:

Re: Re: Re:6

Well, schismogenic AC-hole, you are one of the numerous and varied legion of dullards, of half-animate abortions, conceited, half-educated coxcombs, who attach themselves to the idea most in fashion only to vulgarise it and who caricature every cause they serve, however sincerely.

Memorize that before you crawl back here, ok?

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Amp This says:

Re: Re: Re:5

Well, Insurrection Barbie, this is interesting:

“concerned citizens calling for a welfare check”

Even allowing your presumption that this is what police gang stalking actually is, doesn’t it strike you as classic classism to delineate addicts, aka “recreational drug users” into a separate category from citizens? That may be quite helpful to the addiction-recovery racketeers in eac jurisdiction, but it doesn’t do fuckall to help anyone except those racketeers.

This is the slippery slope you are on there-the slope of arguing for the destruction of the privacy of marginalized groups and individuals, so that a few self-righteous, and presumptively “good” citizens can feel as if they have earned or upheld a right that someone else doesn’t have?

This is 100% Big Pharma/medical mafia meta-narative.

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Women are basically DELICIOUS says:

Re: Re: Re:3

Fagspergers like you confuse mysoginy with the dislike of men-like you–who masquerade as woman online.

Having had many, many, many, vaginas on my face over the years. I fail to see your point. But I am OK if you just kill your ugly faggot self for whatever reason. You have zero purpose in this life, or any other.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:4

Fagspergers like you confuse mysoginy with the dislike of men-like you–who masquerade as woman online.

Those you claim to be women have never claimed any such thing themselves, myself included, but nice attempt at transphobia. Shame you’re too stupid to pull it off.

Having had many, many, many, vaginas on my face over the years…

Given how often you’ve admitted to being an incel, I doubt that very much.

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Free "Peach" NOW! says:

Re: Re: Re:4

Well, at least that was not your sickest projection yet, BuffaloBilltrannyglobohomfaggotmommyfuckerAlanawomanofmysteryinceleratorBigPharmadickcheeseconnoiseur.

No, your best was when you were fantasizing about that pig’s head.

Then, in one thread you are chopping my foreskin off and feeling the feelz over it, and in forum after forum, fantasizing about penis smegma.

Bill–can I call you that?-I think they got your portrayal correct in Silence of the Lambs.

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The True And Only Fake Jesus says:

Re: Re: Re:6

IKYABWAI, you furfuraceous dorbel?

It was definitely you splooging on about P.M. David Cameron bopping your stupid JTRIG skull a few days back in that other thread.

And that, in between your terrorist threats, and rumors of to SWAT’ing me over the internet, slathered with thousands of repetitions of “schismogensis FTW!”

Look everyone here knows your schtick, which is why you post as AC-hole.

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