Free Speech Absolutist Elon Musk Demands Take Down Of (Likely Misleading) Videos Of Teslas Running Over Child-Sized Mannequins
from the running-over-kids dept
It appears that free speech absolutist Elon Musk is, once again, not such a fan of free speech when it criticizes him or his companies. Perhaps he’s too busy penning columns for China’s official internet censor to know this, but given other reports about how much he micromanages things happening at Tesla, you have to assume he’s well aware that Tesla’s lawyers are busy sending cease-and-desist letters to a group called The Dawn Project, which produced a (likely sketchy — read ahead) commercial attacking Tesla’s “Full Self-Driving” (FSD) claims. You can see the commercial here:
Electrek has noted, pretty convincingly, that the footage in the ad is, at best, misleading. And possibly directly deceptive. In some of the footage it appears that FSD wasn’t properly engaged, and in follow-up footage where it is shown to be engaged the end result is not identical to the parts shown in the video. In other words, the video is questionable, at best.
And, the guy behind The Dawn Project is not reacting particularly well to questions being raised about the tests he ran. He calls the reporter from Electrek, Fred Lambert, “a moron” and refuses to answer his questions. It’s not a good look.
That said, even as it looks like FSD was not engaged in at least some of the tests, it seems notable that the driver seems to think it’s engaged, which seems like a health hazard in its own way.
Incredibly, as the Washington Post notes, this ad resulted in one of Musk’s biggest stans literally trying to recreate the “test” in the ad… with real kids.
To be fair, that dude did run the experiment (with both child mannequins and real humans) and the FSD did not run over anyone (phew) … but also the video of him testing it out has been removed from YouTube for violating community guidelines.

I saw the video before it was removed from YouTube, and I’m guessing the concern was… that it might encourage others to test FSD running over kids? I dunno. I think the video was fine and probably should have been left online. (Update: YouTube says it was taken down because “YouTube doesn’t allow content showing a minor participating in dangerous activities or encouraging minors to do dangerous activities.”)
All that said, having your lawyers send an angry cease-and-desist doesn’t seem very free speechy. The takedown demands that The Dawn Project remove the video, issue a public retraction, “disclose all sources of funding for the purported ‘tests’,” and “disclose all recognized regulatory agencies that endorsed your testing methodology and/or results.”
And if it’s true that the commercial is misleading, you can certainly understand why Tesla and Musk would be ticked off about the videos. But a true “free speech absolutist” would counter the videos with more speech debunking them, and not with legal threats demanding not just silence, but detailed information on funding.
Honestly, this is a case where no one comes out of this looking very good (well, Elektrek’s reporting looks good).
But, the underlying issue is here: if full self-driving is going to actually be safe and productive (which would be great, and which I’d still like to come to pass), then Tesla needs to be upfront about it and open to discussing its potential flaws and responding to critics. And, even when that criticism may be exaggerated or problematic, just the fact that Telsa immediately resorts to the legal threats is somewhat chilling even for those who might make a more competent study of the issue. As we’ve documented in the past, Musk has a bit of a history of shutting down more trustworthy critics as well.
And, indeed, in an even more recent Elektrek article by Lambert, it’s noted that Musk is directly telling FSD beta testers to stop complaining about problems with FSD.
That’s also not at all free speech supporting, and is kind of worrisome. We should want beta testers to be critical. That’s how the technology gets better and it’s how we all are more likely to get a safer system out of all of this. And, telling the testers to shut up isn’t helping anyone.
Filed Under: cease and desist, criticism, defamation, free speech, full self-driving
Companies: tesla, the dawn project
Comments on “Free Speech Absolutist Elon Musk Demands Take Down Of (Likely Misleading) Videos Of Teslas Running Over Child-Sized Mannequins”
I miss civics
Re:
Not as much as I miss civility.
Musk: 10.69 is in limited release for a reason. Please do not ask to be included in early beta releases and then complain.
Beta test participant: Please do not create beta tests then complain when you get feedback about it.
Re:
Yeah. I’m a tester for Dots, which is part of Take-Two Interactive. We’re going to release Garden Tails soon.
Musk saying that we shouldn’t complain about buggy betas is ridiculous. Why did Musk share them then if not to fix the bugs and solicit feedback? Not only does it paint him as a hypocrite, it paints him as a bad project manager.
Re:
Giving him a shred of the benefit of the doubt he might just be complaining that they’ve got the audacity to make clear the problems they are facing in a public manner, though unless the beta test agreement comes with a total gag-clause covering positive and negative that’s not much better really.
Re: What you don't understand
What you and the author don’t understand is that there are proper venues for filling bugs and comments about a technology, such as a support form or JIRA/Bugzilla/whatever Tesla uses for bug tracking. Neither Twitter, nor Youtube are said venues.
Re: Re:
How to tell us you missed where AC implied that Musk isn’t listening to feedback from beta testers without saying you missed where AC implied that Musk isn’t listening to feedback from beta testers?
Re: Re: Re: You're correct.
Musk isn’t listening to feedback. Because he isn’t the one who codes FSD. He has people for that. That’s why you need to report bugs and suggestions through appropriate channels, like support form or bug tracking software Tesla uses. Twitter, YouTube, Facebook, etc. aren’t the proper venues to share said feedback, as there Musk’s staff (you know, people who actually work on the FSD and not bankroll it) has much slimmer chances of actually noticing it.
Re: Re: Re:2
If that were the issue then Musk would have tweeted “the proper venue for reporting problems is…” and not “please shut up about problems with the beta.”
Re: Re:
If that were the issue then Musk would have tweeted “the proper venue for reporting problems is…” and not “please shut up about problems with the beta.”
Re: Re: Re:
The “to me” or “on Twitter” part was implied.
Musk is the person that asks you what you think, and then gets pissed off when you share an honest opinion. He wants you to stroke his ego, plain and simple. I really hope he doesn’t ask someone he sleeps with if his penis is large enough.
Re:
I really hope he doesn’t ask someone he sleeps with if his penis is large enough.
Actually, Musk boasted that he needed two hands to handle his dick, and I said, “Yeah, one hand to push aside your pubes and the other to hold the magnifying glass.” 😈
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Re: Re:
Seriously–RISE ABOVE this type of grade school garbage. It lends you credibility with the adults in the room.
Re: Re: Re:
The “adult” with the user name “Unadulterated Poppycock” hypocritically trolled.
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Re: Re: Re:
When will you ever learn to not respond with hypocrisy and engage as a real adult, DBA Phillip K. Dickcheese?
Re: Re: Re:
You killed a really funny joke for that? How much do you hate people for their achievements, Phillip, you envious troll?
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Re: Re: Re:2
If that was a “really funny joke,” then maybe re-calibrate your sense of humor–you dombed down neoNazi AC trolls have the mentality of grade school children, without the panache.’
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Re: Re: Re:3
Lied the hypocritical used scumbag, DBA Phillip K. Dickcheese, having spelled “dumbed” as “dombed”. BTW, your mother called American Family Planning to get her abortion fee back.
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Re: Re:
Seriously–RISE ABOVE this type of grade school garbage. It lends you credibility with the adults in the room.
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Re: Re: Re:
Do you honestly believe I won’t recognize the words you used in the “commment” that was hidden if you post them under a different name, DBA Phillip K. Dickcheese?
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Re: Re: Re:2
Watching you fry your neurons in real time is quite satisfying.
The Dawn Project’s videos are possibly defamatory. I don’t blame Musk for trying to take down the videos. (Of course, Musk is an idiot to be going around saying along the lines of “don’t criticize FSD if you are a beta tester”. Criticism is literally what beta tests are for.) There is one reason to keep the video up: it serves as evidence that FSD works. Of course, there’s also plenty of evidence that FSD doesn’t work. TechGeek Tesla ran some tests and got mixed results because FSD doesn’t mind crashing into (what it thinks are) non-human obstacles.
These tests are for answering the question of whether inattentive driver with FSD is better than an inattentive driver in a non-Tesla car. Even if these tests fail, FSD may still be worthwhile if an attentive driver with FSD is better than an attentive driver in a non-Tesla car.
Why the constant references to China when dealing with US and European business leaders who constantly butt heads with China? If you joked about him working with American politicians, the attempt at humor (I’m guessing) might be slightly topical. But I never see you guys comparing them to Turkish censors, or those in South Korea, or any of the endless three letter agencies.
Is there a particular reason for this?
Re:
Yes, there is.
Re: Re:
Thanks for pointing out the link, I missed it on my first read-through and was wondering why he kept getting compared to Chinese censors specifically.
New to the site?
And the elephant in the room is...
The man behind the “Dawn Project” is Dan O’down, president and CEO of GreenHills software. If you look at the GreenHills software website, you will find that one of their advertised products is autonomous driving (see https://www.ghs.com/products/auto_adas.html). Sort of hidden – maybe because of this broohaha? Anyway, O’dowd has a direct interest in slowing/harming Tesla FSD.
Now, the Dawn Project video is not just sketchy. First, the narrow lane of double cones could be (and in my view probably is) specifically designed to prevent the Tesla software from veering to avoid the “child” dummy. Next, the video is shot in 640×480, and the resolution is too low to read the alerts on the screen, but you can see them change length. The longer one appears to be the same length as the warning a driver gets when “in FSD” and is pressing on the accelerator. In case you don’t know, the driver pressing on the accelerator pedal override FSD breaking. So, what appears to be happening here is a cone-marked lane pointed straight at the “child” where a Tesla in “FSD” is driven with the driver overriding the “FSD” breaking. Surprisingly, this results in a collision. To be absolutely clear, if the surmises are true (and the evidence supports them as much as is possible), this is not a case of Tesla software “killing” a child, it is a case of experiment designers and the driver for the experiment consciously and deliberately driving over the “child” dummy, then claiming it was a software error.
If the surmise is true (and the evidence strongly points that way), this is not “sketchy”, this is outright fraud. There is even a financial motive.
Now, there is plenty of room to debate whether the software should allow a driver to override it. This can be argued either way, and it’s not hard to come up with scenarios where you want the driver to have ultimate control and others where you want the software to have that control. But at present, the driver can override the software and O’Dowd’s foundation is using that to lie about Tesla – or, at least, appears to be doing so.
For those who think Tesla shouldn’t react this way, here’s something to think about: If I made a fake video showing you murder someone and put it online, should you be able to force me to take it down? Because that’s pretty much what appears to be happening here.
Re:
Not when you’re the sort of person who constantly yells ‘Free Speech!’ while just as often going against free speech, and you’re also the sortof person who randomly calls some guy a pedophile due to some animus, but wins the defamation case.
Re:
Yes, the sketchiness of the video has been addressed in the article, plus the response of the guy behind the Dawn Project to a reporter has been mentioned…
…in the same article.
Pointing out that rivals will resort to these sketchy measures isn’t gonna help your case. We already know.
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Re:
Interesting and insightful analysis. But you will find no legitimate discourse here–this forum is dominated by military/NGO/Big Pharma/ intel trolls/Musk haters who will no doubt, flag your post off the forum.
You analysis of video resolution is excelent,and this is really good:
Agreed: it’s a hit piece. This forum LOVES that kind of stuff. Musk, love him or hate him has issues with free speech, but tolerating libel, slander, and defamation is not one of them.
Re:
It’s also worth mentioning that O’Dowd’s failed Senate bid in California focused on this same goal, and spent over $2,000,000 on an ad campaign spanning 36 states. For an election with votes cast in only one state…
https://money.yahoo.com/billionaire-california-senate-candidate-runs-000100056.html
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Re:
Interesting and insightful analysis. But you will find no legitimate discourse here–this forum is dominated by military/NGO/Big Pharma/ intel trolls/Musk haters who will no doubt, flag your post off the forum.
You analysis of video resolution is excelent,and this is really good:
Agreed: it’s a hit piece. This forum LOVES that kind of stuff. Musk, love him or hate him has issues with free speech, but tolerating libel, slander, and defamation is not one of them.
Re: Re:
Interesting and insightful analysis. But you will find no legitimate discourse in my “comments”–my pronouncements are dominated by military/NGO/Big Pharma/intel trolling/Musk sycophancy which will, no doubt, lead my posts to be flagged into invisibility.
FTFY, and per your frequent requests, I’ve flagged your post too.
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Re: Re: Re:
And I, yours, schismogeneticist! And thanks for working for FREE. Flag this one too>>>>>>
Meanwhile, about your mental health:
And especially THIS, about YOU:
Re: Re: Re:2
That intel troll was flagging anyways–part of its medieval self-flagellation shtick. This really is what the Catholic priests do when they retire, lol.
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Re: Re: Re:3
I didn’t know you were Catholic. I thought CCP-aligned trolls like you were expected to be atheist, DBA Phillip K. Dickcheese.
Re: Re: Re:2
I ain’t reading your manifesto bro.
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Re: Re: Re:3
Is that you Zapruder? We all still wonder how you got away with that grassy knoll thingy–please do tell!
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Re: Re: Re:4
More hypocrisy by posting as an AC, DBA Phillip K. Dickcheese? That’s only to be expected, I suppose. Flagged.
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Re: Re: Re:4
Watching you fry your neurons in real time is quite satisfying.
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Re: Re: Re:5
Thanks, Dr. Lecter. Your pal Buffalo Bill (AC-hole Thing 2) below would like some dickcheese, if you have any to spare–and based on the several hundred times you have written that over the last week, I am sure you have plenty.
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Re: Re: Re:6
If you didn’t confuse different genuine commenters with each other all the time, you’d come off as stupid much less often, DBA Phillip K. Dickcheese. Flagged.
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Re: Re: Re:7
Watching you fry your neurons in real time is quite satisfying.
Free Speach doesn’t protect slander or liable. It is clear these are actually a political message trying to get people to persuade congress to stop self driving cars with new laws.
Re:
“Free Speach doesn’t protect slander or liable.”
No one is arguing otherwise.
“It is clear these are actually a political message trying to get people to persuade congress to stop self driving cars with new laws.”
And?
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Re: Re:
And next week you will flip-flop on that opinion. You really don’t know who you are do you, honey?
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Re: Re: Re:
It’s obvious you don’t know who you are, DBA Phillip K. Dickcheese. Luckily, we do. Flagged.
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Re: Re: Re:2
C’mon, say “dickcheese” again, sick puppy!>>>>>>>
Do you eat that with cracker’s or are “ethnic” people allowed at your dickcheese soire’?>>>>>>>>>>>>
dickwadsmegmapenisbreathface.>>>>>>>>>>>>
You know you want to>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
But first, read up on your uniquesociopathic tendencies, as a woman, but also, as an AC-hole.
Curiously, it doesn’t mention dickcheese fetishing tho’>>>>>>>>>>>
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Re: Re: Re:3
Blatant sexism not in assuming that I’m a woman, but in calling me out on your assumption like being a woman’s a bad thing. And I call you DBA Phillip K. Dickcheese because that obviously floats your boat, going by how often you engage in actions that earn you the sobriquet. Flagged.
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Re: Re: Re:4
Sexism?
What’s that to a genderless AI bot and dirtbag like you, wutever your chosen pronouns are? Being an AC-hole doesn’t give you gender protection sis.
Say dickcheese again–bro, and get to work>>>>>>>>>>>
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Re: Re: Re:5
What’s that to a genderless AI bot and dirtbag like me…
FTFY again, DBA Phillip K. Dickcheese. Also, flagged again.
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Re: Re: Re:4
No, say dickcheese again, so that the crown knows what you are! So far, its “Dickcheese Techdirt moderator v. Real Human’s who DGAF about penis smegma like YOU do.
Go die, already. We like it when AI-bots like you self implode.
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Re: Re: Re:5
So far, its “Dickcheese Techdirt moderator v. Real Human’s who DGAF about penis smegma like YOU do.
You’re not a moderator on any site, never mind this one which doesn’t have any.
Go die, already. We like it when AI-bots like you self implode.
Good advice, DBA Phillip K. Dickcheese. Now please follow it.
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Re: Re: Re:6
Watching you fry your neurons in real time is quite satisfying.
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Re: Re: Re:3
Yeah I ain’t reading your shitty blog either bro.
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Re: Re: Re:4
It’s not my blog, sis–nice scat reference too!
But it is a much more interesting take on your sociopathic condition(1)–but thanks AC-hole, for your incredibly insightful comment!
(1) the ableist term sociopath has been replaced by Anti Social Personality Disorder (ASPD),yet another evasive Big Pharma rethinking of weaponized psychological labels
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Re: Re: Re:5
But it is a much more interesting take on my psychopathic(1) condition…
FTFY, DBA Phillip K. Dickcheese. YW.
(1) Evil like yours is pre-existing, not created. Don’t seek to put the blame for your sins on others.
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Re: Re: Re:6
Evil in your conception is exactly that: evil in your conception (1). Your mother should have aborted you.
But thanks for once again showing the public that your true intention here is spouting thinly veiled religious doctrine.
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Re: Re: Re:4
C’mon bitchboi, my sack needs attention!>>>>>
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Re: Re: Re:5
I didn’t know castrati had sacks, DBA Phillip K. Dickcheese.
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Re: Re: Re:6
Well, schismogenic AC-hole, you are one of the numerous and varied legion of dullards, of half-animate abortions, conceited, half-educated coxcombs, who attach themselves to the idea most in fashion only to vulgarise it and who caricature every cause they serve, however sincerely.
Memorize that before you crawl back here, ok?
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Re: Re: Re:4
Is it the blog where he confuses concerned citizens calling for a welfare check on the local amphetamine enthusiast ranting in the street for some kind of police gang stalking conspiracy?
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Re: Re: Re:5
Well, Insurrection Barbie, this is interesting:
Even allowing your presumption that this is what police gang stalking actually is, doesn’t it strike you as classic classism to delineate addicts, aka “recreational drug users” into a separate category from citizens? That may be quite helpful to the addiction-recovery racketeers in eac jurisdiction, but it doesn’t do fuckall to help anyone except those racketeers.
This is the slippery slope you are on there-the slope of arguing for the destruction of the privacy of marginalized groups and individuals, so that a few self-righteous, and presumptively “good” citizens can feel as if they have earned or upheld a right that someone else doesn’t have?
This is 100% Big Pharma/medical mafia meta-narative.
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Re: Re: Re:4 Sissy, where you at?!!????
C’mon. let’s talk about AI like you, and gender bias! [You} not available.
Stupid fag PSYOP is still stupid fag PSYOP.
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Re: Re: Re:3
Fagspergers like you confuse mysoginy with the dislike of men-like you–who masquerade as woman online.
Having had many, many, many, vaginas on my face over the years. I fail to see your point. But I am OK if you just kill your ugly faggot self for whatever reason. You have zero purpose in this life, or any other.
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Re: Re: Re:4
Fagspergers like you confuse mysoginy with the dislike of men-like you–who masquerade as woman online.
Those you claim to be women have never claimed any such thing themselves, myself included, but nice attempt at transphobia. Shame you’re too stupid to pull it off.
Having had many, many, many, vaginas on my face over the years…
Given how often you’ve admitted to being an incel, I doubt that very much.
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Re: Re: Re:5
Watching you fry your neurons in real time is quite satisfying.
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Re: Re: Re:2
I have this itch on the nutsack– can you scratch it for me? Thanks!>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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Re: Re: Re:3
As if any proof were required that being called DBA Phillip K. Dickcheese gets you off. Flagged at your request.
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Re: Re: Re:4
Well, at least that was not your sickest projection yet, BuffaloBilltrannyglobohomfaggotmommyfuckerAlanawomanofmysteryinceleratorBigPharmadickcheeseconnoiseur.
No, your best was when you were fantasizing about that pig’s head.
Then, in one thread you are chopping my foreskin off and feeling the feelz over it, and in forum after forum, fantasizing about penis smegma.
Bill–can I call you that?-I think they got your portrayal correct in Silence of the Lambs.
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Re: Re: Re:5
No, my best was when I was fucking that pig’s head.
FTFY. YW.
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Re: Re: Re:6
IKYABWAI, you furfuraceous dorbel?
It was definitely you splooging on about P.M. David Cameron bopping your stupid JTRIG skull a few days back in that other thread.
And that, in between your terrorist threats, and rumors of to SWAT’ing me over the internet, slathered with thousands of repetitions of “schismogensis FTW!”
Look everyone here knows your schtick, which is why you post as AC-hole.
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Re: Re:
And next week you will flip-flop on that opinion. You really don’t know who you are do you, honey?
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Re: Re: Re:
We know you don’t, DBA Phillip K. Dickcheese. Flagged.
Thank you, TD!
Sincerely,
ROGS