Democrats Need To Get Their Head Out Of The Sand: The Only Reason GOP Is Supporting Their Antitrust Bills Is To Force Companies To Host Disinfo

from the this-matters dept

We’ve pointed this out a few times over the past year. The main antitrust bills that are floating around both the House and the Senate only have Republican support because they have a trojan horse hidden in them that will make it much more difficult for the biggest websites to do any moderation on Republican culture war propaganda campaigns. The two major bills, the American Innovation and Choice Online Act (AICOA) and the Open App Markets bill, both have clauses against anti-competitive “preferencing.”

However, as we keep pointing out, this would allow Parler to argue that Amazon, Google, and Apple treated it differently than, say, Twitter, when those three companies chose not to do business with Parler. Parler even made some of these arguments in its lawsuit against Amazon, and while that lawsuit flopped, if these laws passed, it would reopen the issue and allow companies to sue.

A number of Democrat supporters of these bills, and various civil society organizations, including many that we’ve worked with and usually support, keep trying to brush aside this issue, and keep insisting that it won’t really matter. Some are even willing to align with outright bigots who are only supporting these bills for this very reason, because they think getting something passed on antitrust is the bigger issue.

However, the Washington Post has a great op-ed from two academics who understand this issue better than just about anyone else: Jane Bambauer from University of Arizona and Anupam Chander from Georgetown. I highly encourage everyone supporting these bills to read their analysis of how these bills could create a real mess for disinformation online.

They also point to the Parler example, but they also, thankfully, take on the main argument I’ve heard back from friends supporting these bills: that courts would throw out such lawsuits. This, to me, has always been an odd take, since they know how damaging even frivolous lawsuits can be, and how much of a chilling effect even the threat of extensive litigation can cause. And as Bambauer and Chander make clear, here the chilling effects can be significant.

But the bills would hand the makers of services and apps that give free rein to hate speech and disinformation a powerful weapon to use in court: If Apple or Google kicked them out of app stores, or downgraded them in search results, these companies could argue that the decisions weren’t about content moderation at all, but rather market domination.

At the least, such claims would have to be litigated — a costly proposition, with no guarantee of victory. Alternatively, Apple, Google and other companies might become less vigilant about screening out hate speech and disinformation. You can be wary of Big Tech’s market power and still think the implication of these bills for the speech that is spread online is extremely bad.

And as the article makes clear, the idea that these cases would quickly be thrown out is hardly a given, especially after seeing how courts around the country are willing to view issues around content moderation through partisan lenses.

Suppose Truth Social — President Donald Trump’s Twitter rival — becomes a hotbed of election disinformation, vaccine misinformation and racist speech, and Apple decides that it is violating its App Store guidelines, which require app-makers to filter objectionable content. Would Truth Social or an ideological ally sue, arguing that Apple was preferencing its own News app, or its business partner Twitter’s app? Some judges, and possibly a Supreme Court majority, would be sympathetic to such claims. After all, this would represent a difference in treatment between similar apps (though Apple could of course argue that all apps that permit disinformation are treated alike). Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Tex.) is among those who have noticed that these bills could lead to results similar to those of the recently eviscerated Texas content-moderation law. The bill targeting app stores would “make some positive improvement on the problem of censorship,” he said during markup for the bill.

Also, the bills’ authors could make it clear that these laws can’t be used to stop lawsuits related to content moderation choices, but they have deliberately chosen not to (because they know they’d lose the Republican support if they do).

The Klobuchar-Grassley bill does allow companies to defend against lawsuits by demonstrating that their actions were taken to protect safety, user privacy or the security of the platform, but this defense would likely prove inadequate. Apple or Google would carry the burden of proving that its actions were “reasonably necessary” to protect those specific interests. And even showing that the removed app or speech was sexist, racist, antisemitic or Islamophobic would not be enough. The other bill’s safeguards against abuse are even weaker.

The article also notes that while some supporters of the bill insist that Section 230 would protect these bills from being abused to stop moderation choices, that also seems unlikely for two reasons. Under the Malwarebytes case, companies can get around the 230 issue by claiming that the moderation decision was anticompetitive, rather than for legitimate content moderation needs, and then 230 gets taken off the table. Also, that depends on no more changes being made to either Section 230 itself, or how the courts interpret 230 — both of which seems like dubious propositions (unfortunately).

But, really, the 5th Circuit’s decision in the case highlights the fact that it’s not at all likely that courts would toss out these cases. And, importantly, given the size of the penalties under at least one of the laws, it would be risky for companies to not act accordingly.

Note that if the Internet platform loses, the Klobuchar-Grassley bill would subject it to a penalty of up to 15 percent of its U.S. revenue (not just profits), a risk that few companies would be willing to take.

Perhaps some companies are willing to risk 15% of their revenue on judges understanding bad faith litigation, but that’s a huge bet.

And, again, the article notes that the bills’ authors could fix this, and make it clear that these scenarios don’t apply to the bill, but it appears Democratic Senators have deliberately chosen not to, because they know they’d lose GOP support for the bill.

The Klobuchar-Grassley bill authors recognize that it could affect moderating activity by platforms. The bill, therefore, explicitly excludes from its definition of unlawful activity any reasonable actions the platforms take to protect the copyrights and trademarks of others. Unfortunately, actions motivated by corporate responsibility and designed to protect against hate speech, harassment or misinformation don’t receive similar protection.

What’s most frustrating to me in all of this is how supporters of these bills refuse to actually engage on this point beyond insisting that the courts will dump these lawsuits. That’s far from certain. And even if it were true, these are the same groups that often point out the chilling effects of even frivolous, vexatious litigation.

If those groups, and the politicians pushing these bills, really believe in the underlying concepts in the bill there’s a solution: amend the bills to make it clear they can’t be used in these kinds of content moderation situations. If they’re unwilling to do that, it just feels like they’re carrying water for disinformation peddlers and trollish bigots who are eagerly looking forward to using these laws to litigate.

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Comments on “Democrats Need To Get Their Head Out Of The Sand: The Only Reason GOP Is Supporting Their Antitrust Bills Is To Force Companies To Host Disinfo”

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Anonymous Coward says:

It’s not the sand that they need to get their heads out of

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Hyman Rosen (profile) says:

The big platforms should not be engaging in viewpoint-based censorship except when they are speaking for themselves. They should not be deciding what is hate speech, what is bigotry, or what is disinformation when they are acting as platform hosts for hundreds of millions of users. If these bills wind up punishing the companies for doing that, good.

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kallethen says:

Re:

No. They have the same right as I do on setting ground rules for what you say while in their “house”. If I don’t like hearing bigoted speech in my house, I’ll kick you out. They can do the same.

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Hyman Rosen (profile) says:

Re: Re:

And the government can pass antitrust laws that the companies don’t like. Governments have the right to do that. Just as Facebook likes to give community-standards time-outs, the government can position its laws to nudge companies to behave properly without overtly saying so.

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Mike Masnick (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:

Not under the 1st Amendment. They cannot be punished for their 1st Amendment protected rights. You wish to punish them for exercising those rights.

Why do you hate the 1st Amendment, Hyman?

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Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:2

I’d wager that his hatred for the First Amendment comes from the fact that it allows people to criticize him for spreading the kind of anti-trans bigotry that is also fueling an Ohio bill calling for young girls to have their genitals examined to determine if they’re trans for the purposes of preventing them from playing in school sports.

I mean, I suspect that’s only part of his hatred, and I suspect he also has no problem with the bill in question because his hatred for trans people knows no earthly limit. (I wonder how long we’ll have to wait for him to finally be as open about what he wants the government to do about trans people as an anti-gay preacher who says he wants the government to execute gay people.)

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Hyman Rosen (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:3

I was waiting for the right time to post this link: https://reason.com/volokh/2022/06/01/bbc-altered-gender-in-trans-rape-claim/

This is a case where woke gender ideology has gone from being just stupidly false to perniciously poisonous and evil.

a young lesbian woman felt pressured to go out with a transwoman and went home with him. When she saw his penis and wouldn’t have sex with him, he forcibly raped her.

The BBC changed her story, changing the pronouns of the rapist from “he” to “they” do as not to “misgender” him.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:4

so what? one trans person being a rapist doesn’t make all trans people rapists

are cis male rapists “antiwoke nonconsent ideologues”?

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Hyman Rosen (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:5

The point is not how many transwomen are rapists, but that the BBC changed the statement given by the rape victim because she had the temerity to use the correct pronouns for her rapist. Not all transwomen are evil, but all woke gender ideologues are stupid and evil.

The point is also that woke gender ideologues are seeking to erase women.

Naughty Autie says:

Re: Re: Re:6

Actually, the BBC changed the rape survivor’s statement because she didn’t use the correct pronouns for her attacker. As for wanting to erase women, I see more of that from you alone than from all the commenters defending trans people put together. After all, you attempt to linguistically erase the existence of trans women, but nothing we say or do can erase the existence of any woman, trans or cis, in any way whatsoever. This is exactly what I meant about your nonsensical utterances (I won’t dignify them with the term ‘statements’) earlier.

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Hyman Rosen (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:7 Not Survivor

She is not a rape survivor. She is a rape victim. “Survivor” is a term used for those who had a better outcome from some bad situation than others. There were survivors from the Titanic because we other people died. There are survivors of mass shootings. There are survivors of difficult exams that other people fail

Orwellian redefinition of words should be be resisted.

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Toom1275 (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:8

Orwellian redefinition of words should be be resisted.

You’re free to stop being the only one doing it at any time.

JMT (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:6

The point is also that woke gender ideologues are seeking to erase women.

Is it just a coincidence that you believe in yet another utterly stupid “replacement” theory? Nope…

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Naughty Autie says:

Re: Re: Re:8

In what way does recognising the existence a greater number of women than you do constitute ‘erasure’? Enquiring minds want to know.

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Hyman Rosen (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:9

In the same way that speaking about “people of color” erases the specific experience of Black enslavement in America. Removing specificity from a category erases it by erasing its meaning. Men are not, and never can be, women, and calling men women erases the meaning of “woman”. There do not exist a greater number of women than before. There exist that number of delusional men and their woke gender ideologue enablers.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:10

Motherfucker I expect you to clean up the strawman that just exploded under the weight you asked if to carry.

bhull242 (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:10

In the same way that speaking about “people of color” erases the specific experience of Black enslavement in America.

So… not at all, then.

Removing specificity from a category erases it by erasing its meaning.

We’re adding specificity, not removing, but even disregarding that, given that “male” and “female” still exist and (essentially) mean the same thing to both sides of the discussion, the categories as you define them are still there.

Men are not, and never can be, women, […]

Again, that assertion doesn’t relate to transgender people at all.

[…] and calling men women erases the meaning of “woman”.

First, no one is doing that, but setting that aside, again, you still have “female”. If you want to say that transwomen aren’t female, few would argue with you on that. You still have a perfectly good word for the category you wish to speak on.

Please let us know when you decide to stop beating up strawmen

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:5

That’s a potentially dangerous statement, since it posits being trans as a “lifestyle choice”.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:6

I I’d rather say it posits hyman as a closet trans and therefore explains his obsession with them.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:8

I hardly think trans people are coming to techdirt for advise for their metal and medical opinions so I think we can put the fainting couch away for now.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:9

Oh, we’re watching. We’re watching to stamp out bigotry and close-mindedness by any means necessary.

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Toom1275 (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:4

It’smtwlling that you’ve never once provided a single real-world example that supports your demented “woke gender ideology” hallucinations.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:4

That story shows you should be careful about who you date, and would you be recounting it if it was a lesbian rape, gay rape, or cis rape?

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Hyman Rosen (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:5

If the woke gender ideologues at the BBC decided to alter the statements of another rape victim for the sake of political correctness, I would be recounting that story too.

All transwomen are men, and some men are rapists, so it is possible that some transwomen are rapists. That’s just life. But having the BBC change the statements of the rape victim because they didn’t like how she described her rapist as male is the sort of sheer evil that one would expect from woke ideologues.

Naughty Autie says:

Re: Re: Re:6

What if the rape was carried out by an actual man pretending to be a trans woman and the BBC changed the pronouns the rape survivor used about him from ‘she’ to ‘he’, Hymen Rosan? Would you be recounting the story then?

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That One Guy (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:3 But sure, it's the trans people who are the perverts...

I’d wager that his hatred for the First Amendment comes from the fact that it allows people to criticize him for spreading the kind of anti-trans bigotry that is also fueling an Ohio bill calling for young girls to have their genitals examined to determine if they’re trans for the purposes of preventing them from playing in school sports.

Telling priorities there where forcing a young girl to expose their genitals to a stranger is considered less problematic than the possibility that someone with the ‘wrong’ bits will play in sports.

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Hyman Rosen (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:3

Examining genitals is how sex is determined. (Also genetic testing, but that takes longer and the correlation is near total anyway.) It wouldn’t be necessary if people weren’t trying to sneak boys onto girl’s teams. But they are, so it is. Woke gender ideologues aren’t going to get their way.

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That One Guy (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:4

Look, if you and the people pushing for that bill are that desperate to look at the genitals of children just admit it(and then go see a psychologist for that), no need to pretend it has anything to do with ‘sneaking boys into girl’s sports teams’ and how that’s somehow worse than what you want to do.

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Naughty Autie says:

Re: Re: Re:6

In principle, we could just look at birth certificates because of course they can now be updated to reflect people’s lived reality.

FTFY, you transphobic PoS. YW.

That One Guy (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:6 You're not fooling anyone

Like I said before just own it, I can guarantee it’s not going to make people think less of you at this point if you just admit that you support strangers looking at the genitals of children as somehow less problematic than a kid possibly being on the ‘wrong’ sports team.

Lostinlodos (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:7

Didn’t I comment somewhere along the way that part of all these “preference” and “fetishes” and the like stem directly from our overly repressed society as a whole?

It’s scientifically proven the more repressed a person is and the earlier they developed and didn’t act on their development; the more likely they are to fall into that category?

Look; if pizzagate is real I blame Republicans!
If people were just allowed to consensually fuck at will society would be much calmer and more peaceful.

The following is an opinion, not fact!
But my guess is HR either has conservative-anti-sex syndrome that has manifested in the interest of little ones parts…
Or
HR was jilted by a love interest at some young age and has manifested a drive for conquest of that age even in later years of life.
The preceding was semi-relevantly-educated opinion

See, all this repression is unhealthy! It turns them to parts verification!

Cattress (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:8

That’s basically what I was saying about the state of sex education in this country and these ridiculous ‘don’t say gay’ laws. In countries where kids learn about sex in a frank, honest manner from much earlier ages, and grow up in more accepting and open societies have much lower rates sexual violence and predation of children. This is also true of access to pornography and legalized sex work. Healthy sexual outlets reduce the demand for unhealthy ones.
Ultimately, this comes back to the patriarchy, and the fear of losing their grip over society, and being unable to compete in a more egalitarian & diverse world. The less different groups are marginalized and regulated, the more people will freely chart their own path to happiness and thrive independent of those power structures.
HR thinks science and medicine have become corrupted by “gender ideology” because research supports affirmation of Trans and fluid identities. I guess when he throws the word “woke” in at that foolishness he must mean race, since science is also finding real world harms to individuals and by extension, society, of racism on health, emotional wellbeing, educational and wealth achievements. And yet, these are quite the opposite of mainstream scientific consensus that has existed within my lifetime. While science has vacillated over things like what makes for the healthiest diet, the role alcohol plays in heart health, and even how aggressively to treat common ailments (take the tonsils out, antibiotics then wait and see, back to take them out), this is not something that has waffled. It’s been a painfully slow evolution, met with fierce resistance at every step. I think that these changes in our science and medical communities are actually the opposite of being corrupted by gender ideology, that these are signs of shaking off the long standing gender ideology that dictated gender must follow biological sex, which is strictly male and female (as record shows that intersexed babies were surgically altered to match the sex selected by the parents, and then children were continually treated to ensure they maintained development according to that sex selection while withholding the truth and any form of meaningful consent. Not that all parents got fully informed consent, and not that they could do much to object either). He cries about how this woke gender ideology is being aggressively forced on others without a hint of irony about the reality of the chains we have put on sex and gender. I mean, has he not seen these gender reveal “events” where people are openly disappointed, or set off wildfires in crazy reveals using explosions? Granted I understand the excitement in learning your baby’s sex, it’s the only attribute we can find out about this little stranger & can infer something about who we think they will be in the future. But I bet I speak for moms of both boys and girls when I say that it gets pretty tiring that color selection is dominated by pink or blue, and prints that reflect a limited idea of what kids like based on being a boy or girl, before they are old enough to know what they like at all. We’re expected to bind our kids to rules of gender based on sex from birth, and the reality is that it’s more complex than the binary genetic qualities.

Mike Masnick (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:6

Hyman, I have to admit, I’ve never met someone quite this obsessed with the genitals of other people. why do you care so much about what’s in peoples’ pants?

What the fuck happened to you to make you this way?

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Hyman Rosen (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:7

We have religious, social, and cultural taboos regarding single-sex spaces, especially where nudity may be involved. Woke gender ideologues should not be permitted to force people of the wrong sex into those spaces without the consent of the people already there.

Woke gender ideology is false. Men cannot be turned into women or vice versa. There is not such thing as a male mind or a female mind. No one can “know” themselves as a sex other than that of their body, not least because no one has access to any other mind but their own. We should not permit falsehood to be taught as truth by public institutions, nor to have those institutions compel people to affirm lies as truth, explicitly or implicitly (sex “assigned” at birth, for example).

So my “obsession” is twofold. No riding roughshod over people’s beliefs and customs, and no lies affirmed as truths. You may have bought into these lies so wholeheartedly that you cannot see how false they are, but that does not compel anyone else to believe we you do.

Naughty Autie says:

Re: Re: Re:8

Men cannot be turned into women or vice versa.

Correctamundo. So why do you insist on trans men turning themselves into women and vice versa?

Naughty Autie says:

Re: Re: Re:8

No one can “know” someone else to be a gender the same as the sex of their body, not least because no one has access to any other mind but their own.

FTFY. YW. :p

bhull242 (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:8

We have religious, social, and cultural taboos regarding single-sex spaces, especially where nudity may be involved.

And you have yet to explain how that trumps someone’s safety.

Woke gender ideologues should not be permitted to force people of the wrong sex into those spaces without the consent of the people already there.

Why? Because taboos exist? There are also taboos against gay marriage and interracial marriage.

Woke gender ideology is false.

You have yet to demonstrate this is true to the extent such ideology exists.

Men cannot be turned into women or vice versa.

I have already pointed out that this is not something actual transgender people believe to begin with. Stop repeating this debunked claim of yours unless you plan to address that.

There is not such thing as a male mind or a female mind.

Experts disagree with you on that, to the extent such an idea is even falsifiable.

No one can “know” themselves as a sex other than that of their body, […]

Again, not something actual transgender people claim. Your insistence on not using the definitions transgender people use when describing themselves is already bad enough, but it also leads you to make false claims like this, which just make you look stupid.

[…] not least because no one has access to any other mind but their own.

That doesn’t actually support your assertion.

We should not permit falsehood to be taught as truth by public institutions, nor to have those institutions compel people to affirm lies as truth, explicitly or implicitly […]

You still have not demonstrated that this is something that actually happens to begin with.

[…] (sex “assigned” at birth, for example).

As I have already pointed out and you still haven’t addressed, this is not an affirmation of anything regarding transgender people per se, explicitly or implicitly, since intersex people exist, among other things. It is also a really dumb thing to get caught up on.

So my “obsession” is twofold. No riding roughshod over people’s beliefs and customs, and no lies affirmed as truths.

You still haven’t demonstrated that transgender people do either, making this a moot point.

You may have bought into these lies so wholeheartedly that you cannot see how false they are, but that does not compel anyone else to believe we you do.

You may be so stubborn as to not realize that you are denying things that aren’t being asserted to begin with, but that doesn’t mean that you have a point.

Again, the only claims you are denying which are demonstrably false are not actually held by transgender people, and no one is trying to compel you to believe differently.

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Hyman Rosen (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:9

No one may compel other people’s behavior for their own sense of safety.

The existence of same-sex or interracial marriage does not compel people opposed to them to participate in them.

Woke gender ideologues would squeal if being trans required physical verification of intersex traits.

Trans people are in no sense the sex they wish to be. They can therefore not enter into single-sex spaces for which their bodies disqualify them, regardless of how well they costume themselves.

“Man” and “woman” are statuses of physical bodies. Woke gender ideologues do not get to redefine those words and then demand that things designated by those words use the new definitions.

Rocky says:

Re: Re: Re:10

No one may compel other people’s behavior for their own sense of safety.

Just like how social norms says that men shouldn’t use women’s bathrooms and vice versa, the social norms on Twitter says that deadnaming isn’t acceptable – and yet you are arguing that it should be perfectly fine to compel Twitter to accept your behavior.

So what is it you want? Do you want to compel Twitter to accept your behavior or not?

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Mike Masnick (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:8

That’s a lot of words that don’t explain what the fuck happened to you to make you so obsessed with other people’s genitals.

It’s fucking weird dude.

Stop caring so much about what’s in other people’s pants. Your obsession is fucked up and downright creepy.

Let other people be.

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Hyman Rosen (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:9

You have a very strange definition of letting other people be. Forcing women to allow men into their single-sex spaces is the opposite of letting people be. Having schools tell teachers to lie to parents about their child’s mental health issues is the opposite of letting people be. Censoring people who point these things out is the opposite of letting people be.

Would you feel the same if we were talking about creationism or vaccine denialism instead of woke gender ideology?

Fundamentally, what happened is that woke gender ideology is a ridiculously obvious falsehood, and yet we are being pressed to affirm it. I refuse. Reality does not bow to wishful thinking.

Mike Masnick (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:10

You have a very strange definition of letting other people be.

I do not.

Forcing women to allow men into their single-sex spaces is the opposite of letting people be.

Where have I advocated for letting men enter women’s single-sex spaces?

All I have done is ask why you care what other people’s genitals are.

As I said, the only time that should ever matter is if that other person wants to consensually share that information with you. Yet you seem to be running around wanting to know what everyone’s genitals are, and it’s fucking sick.

Having schools tell teachers to lie to parents about their child’s mental health issues is the opposite of letting people be.

Where did you get your mental health degree, dude? Did your university know that you have an unhealthy obsession with people’s genitals?

The only “mental health” issue I’ve seen here is your creepy infatuation with other people’s genitals, and I’m curious what made you such a weird, creepy, pervert.

Censoring people who point these things out is the opposite of letting people be.

Who said anything about censoring?

I’m honestly concerned about your mental health, Hyman. Not only do you only seem to post about other people’s genitals, you also make shit up all the time. I have no interest in censoring people.

Would you feel the same if we were talking about creationism or vaccine denialism instead of woke gender ideology?

What are you even talking about? I’m only asking what made you so obsessed with people’s private parts.

Fundamentally, what happened is that woke gender ideology is a ridiculously obvious falsehood, and yet we are being pressed to affirm it.

How can an ideology be false? And I know of no one asking you to “affirm” any ideology. All I know is that people are (1) asking you not to be a total creep obsessed with knowing what genitals people have and (2) not to be a total fucking jackass in pushing for abusive practices that lead to literal harm.

And you seem unable to do either, which makes you a horrible person. Seek help. You are in desperate need of it.

Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:8

What do you think of penises?

…okay, that might seem like an out-of-left-field question, but I assure you it has a point.

See, society has given a lot of weight to the concept of the penis. We think of dicks as a projection of maleness⁠—as a symbol of power, if you will. But we also extend that conceptual thinking to sex: The penis is often a symbol of sexual agency that can extend to the aggression and violence of a rapist. Nothing proves this more than how you (and your exterminationist TERF allies) talk about trans women. The worries you have about a trans woman being in a public restroom with a cis woman boil down specifically to fears of rape⁠—of a dick being used to rape a cis woman.

But that raises another question: Why don’t you assholes whine about trans men in cis men’s spaces? The answer lies in how society thinks of the vagina. We think of pussies as inherently feminine, and that gets to the heart of how society views femininity. If a dick is a symbol of power, a pussy is a symbol of weakness⁠—after all, one of the most popular slang words for calling someone a coward or a weakling is “pussy”. You don’t see trans men as a threat to cis men because you think of them as inherently less threatening.

In turn, these ideas inform your views on rape and sexual assault. To you, trans women and cis men are capable of rape because you view the penis as the power-holder in any form of sexual activity. But I’d wager that you think trans men and cis women aren’t capable of rape because you view the rape of cis men as something done by gay men (because gay men have penises). You’ve put so much baggage on the conceptual presence of a penis that you view trans women as being sexually intrusive no matter the situation.

A penis is a neutral body part. But you load so much symbolism onto dicks that you see the idea of a woman with a dick as inherently violent and harmful. That’s why I call your anti-trans rhetoric “exterminationist”: You see trans people (especially trans women) as a threat that must be neutralized⁠—no matter the cost.

None of this is to say that trans women (or trans men) can’t be rapists. But if you want to paint all trans women as potential rapists because one trans woman raped someone, you must apply a similar coat of paint on all cis men because of convicted rapists like Brock Turner. Rape is an individual act; put the blame for it on the individual, not their gender.

Someone can have a penis and never use it to rape anyone. That someone with a penis could be a woman. Get over it.

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Hyman Rosen (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:9

They look funny, and it is especially amusing to abuse them in various ways. (I may have been unduly influenced by Jackass Forever.)

Nudity taboos exist regardless of rape fears. They are part of many religions, for example, because such intimacy is supposed to be reserved between husband and wife. Woke gender ideologues do not get to dismiss nudity taboos for “reasons”.

Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:10

Nudity taboos exist regardless of rape fears.

They exist because of puritanical thinking⁠—a kind of thinking, might I add, that likely fuels (at least in part) your exterminationist hatred of transgender people.

What does all this hating trans people get you (other than the admiration of exterminationist TERFs)?

Lostinlodos (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:11

If we were all nude all the time… ?

But I’m ultra liberal on gender and sex. I don’t fight for trans access. I fight to remove sex based spaces completely.

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Hyman Rosen (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:7

Because those people are trying to push their genitals into places they don’t belong, and because they are trying to force people to affirm that their genitals don’t determine their sex.

That makes them both bullies and liars, and therefore worth fighting.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:8

You have no fucking clue. Being trans is not a choice but an accident of nature. Coming out can cost them their family, and also make finding a job more difficult. Then there are assholes like who come along to try and make their life even more difficult.

Naughty Autie says:

Re: Re: Re:8

Because those people are trying to push their genitals into places they don’t belong…

That’s the definition of rape, actually, not being trans.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:8

Individuals like you are trying to push people into gender roles they don’t belong, and you are trying to force trans people to affirm that their genitals determine their gender identity.

That makes you both a bully and a liar, and therefore worth fighting. Just saying.

bhull242 (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:8

Because those people are trying to push their genitals into places they don’t belong, […]

Again, this is unenforceable, and you have not demonstrated that it’s a problem.

[…] and because they are trying to force people to affirm that their genitals don’t determine their sex.

Not even transphobes can all agree that it does (I mean, genitals can be changed to some extent, but you have stated that sex is immutable, so even you don’t agree with this, but also because some insist that chromosomes dictate sex rather than genitals, and these don’t correlate perfectly), and no one is trying to force anyone to affirm such a thing.

That makes them both bullies and liars, and therefore worth fighting.

It doesn’t make them bullies or liars to begin with, and you haven’t demonstrated that.

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Hyman Rosen (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:9

It is a problem if enough people believe it is a problem.

It is enforceable to the extent that people are willing to devote resources to enforcing it.

Woke gender ideologues, in places where they have power, force schools and teachers to lie to parents about the gender delusion and confusion children express in schools.

The existence of physically intersex people is irrelevant. Those people can get tested medically to determine what sex they are. But woke gender ideologues would squeal in outrage if such testing were a requirement for any sort of trans identity.

Mike Masnick (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:8

Because those people are trying to push their genitals into places they don’t belong

There remains no evidence whatsoever to support this. And there are already laws against things like indecent exposure or assault.

None of that involves YOU needing to be obsessed with other people’s genitals.

Again, it’s weird.

Honestly, if there isn’t mutual interest between you and another person regarding doing something with each other’s genitals, their genitals are none of your fucking business.

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Hyman Rosen (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:9

You do not get to tell people that their religious, social, and cultural taboos are irrelevant because you believe in a fantasy of men being women. That’s not even counting men forcing their way onto women’s sports teams, and women being locked up together with men in prisons. That’s not even counting schools that have their teachers lie to parents about their children.

You are trying to privilege the delusions of literally insane people, treating them as if they were real and everyone else is crazy for refusing to see that. I don’t have to ask why that is – it’s because your tribe got sucked into it by the ideologues who equated gay rights with trans delusions, and it’s now become part of your identity.

You are free to believe as you like, but you don’t get to silence people who say the opposite because you think it’s none of their business. Public affirmation of lies is everyone’s business.

Mike Masnick (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:10

You do not get to tell people that their religious, social, and cultural taboos are irrelevant

I didn’t say that your weird hangups are irrelevant. I said they’re weird, and kinda creepy. Because they are. You’re fucking obsessed with other people’s genitals. Do you not see how fucked up that is?

You are trying to privilege the delusions of literally insane people, treating them as if they were real and everyone else is crazy for refusing to see that

What are you even talking about? I’m not privileging anything. I’m just asking why it matters to you so much what genitals people have. It doesn’t matter dude.

your tribe got sucked into it by the ideologues who equated gay rights with trans delusions, and it’s now become part of your identity.

wtf? what “tribe? am I a part of? I’m not a part of any tribe, and I said nothing about gay rights. I’m just asking why every fucking post you make on my site is about your obsession with what’s in other people’s pants?

You are free to believe as you like, but you don’t get to silence people who say the opposite because you think it’s none of their business.

Who is trying to silence you, you weird, obsessive freak?

I’m not trying to silence you. I’m just trying to figure out what sort of perverted freak you are that you keep obsessing about what’s inside the underwear of people who you don’t know.

I honestly don’t get it, and think you need serious mental help.

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Hyman Rosen (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:11

People who can identify birds are not “obsessed with feathers”. Men are not women and women are not men. If men want to go into women’s spaces, and disguise themselves as women to do so, then there needs to be a way to examine them so they can be kept out.

We have religious, social, and cultural taboos such that people, women especially, do not want to be seen naked by strange men and do not want to see strange men naked. This is so even when they might not be aware that men are present, as every arrested peeper can testify. Genitals are how we most clearly distinguish between men and women when other physica cues are insufficient.

Oh, and whether your ranting about me is sincere or just an attempt to rile me, it’s not going to affect me in the slightest. Woke gender ideology is a ridiculous lie, and I will continue saying so.

Mike Masnick (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:12

People who can identify birds are not “obsessed with feathers”.

No. People who spend all their days posting about types of birds, are, in fact, obsessed with feathers. But that’s a normal hobby. Being obsesses with other people’s genitals is not a healthy hobby.

I’m trying to understand why you care so much about people’s genitals.

If men want to go into women’s spaces, and disguise themselves as women to do so, then there needs to be a way to examine them so they can be kept out.

Why? This is a serious question. If no one is being bothered, why do you need to examine what’s in their underwear? I can see no logical reason to do so.

If someone is being bothered, we already have existing ways of dealing with that. You’re seeking something different. An intrusive process of examining people’s genitals. Which is beyond creepy.

We have religious, social, and cultural taboos such that people, women especially, do not want to be seen naked by strange men and do not want to see strange men naked.

The only one pushing for people to be seen naked here appears to be you, demanding investigations into people’s genitals. So your comment is totally nonsensical.

I’m not asking people to look at other people naked. You are.

Oh, and whether your ranting about me is sincere or just an attempt to rile me, it’s not going to affect me in the slightest.

I’m not ranting. I’m not trying to rile you up. I’m trying to understand what sort of sick fuck you are that spends so much time obsessing over the genitals of people who don’t want to share their genitals with you at all.

That’s what I honestly do not understand.

Woke gender ideology is a ridiculous lie, and I will continue saying so.

This has nothing to do with ideology. I don’t even know what “woke gender ideology” means or why you mention it in every damn comment.

Answer the fucking question: WHY DO YOU CARE ABOUT OTHER PEOPLE’S GENITALS so much that you seem to mention it in every comment on my site?

Hyman: when I meet people, I don’t care what’s in their underwear. It’s none of my business. I care about how to address them, because that’s common decency — something you appear not to have, since you apparently don’t want to address people based on how they wish to be addressed, but rather by what’s in their underwear.

Do you not see how strange that is?

Hyman Rosen (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:13

Woke gender ideology poisons and destroys everything. You, and the ACLU, used to be advocates for freedom of speech. Now you are pleased that the largest forums for public speech censor users who dispute woke gender ideology. Not that long ago, if conservatives had said that schools would force teachers to lie to parents about their children’s mental problems, liberals would have dismissed that as insane scaremongering. The latest justice of the Supreme Court refused to answer the question “what is a woman?”

The “obsession” over genitals is (with vanishingly taste exceptions) because it is genitals that determine whether someone is a man or a woman, and woke gender ideologues who attempt to say otherwise should be countered. And it comes up often here because it impacts many of the topics discussed here.

Addressing people how they want to be addressed is not just a matter of politeness. Sometimes it is, and sometimes it’s a form of getting the other person to affirm incorrect gender beliefs. The former is fine, the latter is not. I would address a priest as Father. I would not kiss a Cardinal’s ring. It’s about context.

People are naked in locker rooms. People are naked in communal showers. Men do not belong on women’s sports teams or as prisoners in women’s prisons.

Mike Masnick (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:14

Woke gender ideology poisons and destroys everything.

You keep using that term, yet it’s a meaningless phrase. It’s basically “the boogeyman poisons and destroys everything.”

If you’re talking about the mere idea of treating people with respect, that doesn’t seem like an ideology that poisons and destroys everything. It sounds like the kind of lesson I learned as a child and still believe in.

You, and the ACLU, used to be advocates for freedom of speech. Now you are pleased that the largest forums for public speech censor users who dispute woke gender ideology.

Why do you continue to make shit up, Hyman? It’s fucking weird. I do not support censorship. I do support private companies making decisions to not allow assholes to abuse and harass people.

Let me explain this to you and then I’m done with this thread: your world view is that genitals should be inspected (which is a sick invasion of privacy), that people should not be respected, and that we should harass and endanger individuals for being true to themselves.

To me, all of that is entirely indefensible.

I respect others. I stand for free speech, but that does not mean anyone should be forced to allow harassment. And I do not, and cannot, fathom why we need to accommodate your perverted obsession with other people’s genitals. It’s sick, and you should seek serious help.

Also, maybe stop screaming “woke gender ideology” over and over again. It’s not a thing. It’s a boogeyman sold to you by disingenuous people who want you mad. They’re playing you. You’re a gullible chump, obsessed with other people’s genitals because Fox News fed you some line of bullshit, and you’re too weak minded and feeble to recognize that you’ve been played.

There’s no such thing as a “woke gender ideology.” There’s just a question of whether or not you respect other people, and treat them as they wish to be treated.

People are naked in locker rooms. People are naked in communal showers. Men do not belong on women’s sports teams or as prisoners in women’s prisons.

Again, this IS NOT HAPPENING. Fox News lied to you, because they know you’re a simple minded fool who they can lead on the next culture war. And you’re so gullible that you fell for it, and now you’re obsessed with people’s genitals.

What a sad pathetic excuse of a person you are.

Get help. And stop posting your bigoted, fucked up, nonsense on my site.

Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:15

Fox News lied to you, because they know you’re a simple minded fool who they can lead on the next culture war. And you’re so gullible that you fell for it, and now you’re obsessed with people’s genitals.

“[T]he infliction of cruelty with a good conscience is a delight to moralists. That is why they invented Hell.” — Bertrand Russell

Lostinlodos (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:13

obsesses with other people’s genitals is not a healthy hobby.

I wouldn’t go that far. Lots of people make contributions to society via genital obsession.
Erotica. Artists. Porn,m. Sex workers. Genital doctors.
…just saying.

That said HR, should probably be looking into some form of sexual counselling. Either that of BDSM.

But I explained two top psychological examples of this hysteria to you before. Above.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:4 Neo Nazis best and brightest on full display right here.

Sexually assaulting kids is cool with you as long as something that almost never happens continues to almost never happen.

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Hyman Rosen (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:2

People like you use the 1st Amendment as a shield to accomplish the censorship that you want by outsourcing that censorship to companies to which the 1st doesn’t apply.

Who do you hate freedom of speech?

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:3

If they did, they’d be forwarding THEIR requests to SINGAPORE. Where the 1st Amendment doesn’t fucking exist and is not recognized.

Why do you hate the freedom of speech and its attendant rights, Hyman? Is it because you don’t like being told how wrong you really are?

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:3 Fascism's best and brightest on full display right here

“People like you use the 1st Amendment as a shield to accomplish the censorship that you want by outsourcing that censorship to companies to which the 1st doesn’t apply.”

They use a thing, to do a thing, because that thing doesn’t apply?

Do you realize how fucking stupid you sound?

No of course not.

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Rocky says:

Re: Re: Re:3

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Point to where it says that freedom of speech doesn’t apply to companies or other entities or associations that aren’t natural persons.

Wait? It doesn’t? Oh, it actually says the government can’t abridge the freedom of speech! Silly me.

Naughty Autie says:

Re: Re: Re:3

People like you use the 1st Amendment as a shield to accomplish the censorship that you want by outsourcing that censorship to companies to which the 1st doesn’t apply. Why do you hate freedom of speech?

Woah, nice mirror there, Hymen Rosan! Now do you want to stop talking into it and finally engage with the real world?

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Hyman Rosen (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:4

You mean like complaining about telecom lobbyists when the 1st Amendment gives everyone the right to petition the government for a redress of grievances?

As always, the 1st Amendment is not the entirety of free speech, just a partial implementation of free speech directed against the government. When companies use their 1st Amendment rights to stifle the speech of the people who use their services, they are destroying free speech even as they use it, just as capitalists sell their enemies the rope to be used to hang them.

You hate freedom when it is used to promote ideas you hate, and you are glad that you can hide behind the 1st Amendment when the people destroying freedom are destroying the parts you hate.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:5

You mean like complaining about telecom lobbyists when the 1st Amendment gives everyone the right to petition the government for a redress of grievances?

Do you understand the difference between petitions and demands favors for money donated to campaigns?

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Hyman Rosen (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:6

No. And neither does the Supreme Court. Perhaps you should move to a country where the laws are more to your liking? Being “shown the door” seems to be a popular concept among the commentariat here.

Naughty Autie says:

Re: Re: Re:7

Oh? Could you provide a link to the Supreme Court decision declaring that there’s no difference between lobbying and bribing?

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Naughty Autie says:

Re: Re: Re:9

The Supreme Court on Monday struck down a limit on the amount of post-election funds that can be used to pay back personal loans from candidates, further chipping away at federal campaign finance regulations.

I don’t think the linked post says what you think it does, mate. Try again.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:6

Ours.

Once the trans people are dead and buried, they’ll move on to black people, then Asians of all types, then Latinx, then Jews, then Italians, then Irish, and so on until what’s left is “Anglo-Saxon Protestants”.

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Rocky says:

Re: Re: Re:5

It’s clear you don’t understand that the law is supposed to be applied equally within its context regardless who it affects. What you want is that the law should be applied unequally depending on the target and some criteria that you think is appropriate and therein lies the path to anarchy.

This is reflected in your twisted idea of free speech, because for it to work it has to deprive others of their rights and the control of their property.

Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:6

Considering how Hyman views trans people, the “control of their property” part of your assertion could be extended with “and their bodies” and still be true.

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Hyman Rosen (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:6

Given how woke ideologues now talk about “equity” instead of “equality”, it should be clear that one person’s idea of equality is another person’s definition of unfairness. It’s the old equality of opportunity versus equality of outcome debate; woke ideologues seem to idolize Harrison Bergeron.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:5

When companies use their 1st Amendment rights to stifle the speech of the people who use their services, they are destroying free speech even as they use it, just as capitalists sell their enemies the rope to be used to hang them.

So it’s not okay when George Soros does it, and it’s also not okay when the Kochs do it (not an indictmemt of Techdirt accepting money from the Charles Koch Foundation, Mike has been hypervigilant and he should continue to do so).

But you think the Kochs should be funding suppression of free speech and genocide anyway. Because that’s “free speech” to you: promoting fascism.

Naughty Autie says:

Re: Re: Re:2

TBH, I’m not sure that Hymen Rosan completely hates the First Amendment, he just doesn’t like it that it doesn’t apply to him alone. In short, he’s a narcissist.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:

And the only time in recent history where the FTC has actually dismantled a company was… AT&T and I believe Bell.

Hard to tell, all I know is that it happened once.

Why do you hate the FTC, Hyman?

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Cattress (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:

No, the government doesn’t have the “right” to violate the First Amendment- it’s kinda why it’s the first right guaranteed protection from the government.
This isn’t even really an anti-trust matter, this is just a time waster, a way to claim to people who don’t know any better that they stood up to the favorite punching bags on both the left and the right.
There are real anti-trust problems that they are still half-assing the legislation because too many politicians have no spines and are overly reliant on contributions from the companies screwing over everyone.

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Hyman Rosen (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:2 Rational Basis Test

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rational_basis_review

As long as the government can show that a law is rationally related to a legitimate government interest, even if such a relationship is tenuous, it doesn’t matter if the law is actually pretextual. That means that if the government wants to go after the large platforms using antitrust law, it doesn’t matter if it’s doing it because it doesn’t like how the platforms are moderating users. The government has a legitimate interest in preventing too much consolidation and targeting large companies with antitrust legislation is rationally related to that legitimate interest, so the law would stand.

Ben (profile) says:

Re: Why?

Companies should not be compelled to host what they deem, as an organisation and as defined in their terms of service and published policies, to be unacceptable on their own service.
If you compel them to host all speech, you’re enabling the misinformation pedlers, spammers and toxic influences in society. Do you really want that? Every internet service that dares to have a comment section will descend in to 4chan/8chan land (or whatever they’re called today) and we’ll all be far worse off.

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Samuel Abram (profile) says:

Re: Re:

If you compel them to host all speech, you’re enabling the misinformation pedlers, spammers and toxic influences in society.

That’s what Hyman Rosen wants, knowing him from his posts around here.

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Mike Masnick (profile) says:

Re: Re:

If you compel them to host all speech, you’re enabling the misinformation pedlers, spammers and toxic influences in society. Do you really want that?

Yes. Hyman has made it quite clear, that’s exactly what he wants.

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Hyman Rosen (profile) says:

Re: Re: Fallacy of the Heap

Just because there isn’t a sharp dividing line between speech that should be banned because it contributes nothing but noise and offense, and speech that should be allowed because it contains legitimate ideas even though others vehemently disagree with them, does not mean that allowing all of the latter requires allowing all of the former.

The huge platforms should be supporting the free speech of their users, not engaging in viewpoint-based censorship. That doesn’t mean that they can’t also moderate away spam and real (as opposed to woke) harassment and bigotry.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:

And when you have successfully driven trans people off of social media, whose free speech rights have been denied? Under your rules, they would have nowhere left online to speak.

That One Guy (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:3

For some people you don’t need to scratch very hard at all at the veneer of ‘I’m not bigoted against them I just don’t want them to keep shoving that stuff in my face all the time’ to reveal the ‘They shouldn’t exist or ever feel comfortable or safe’ underneath.

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Hyman Rosen (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:2

Woke gender ideology is false. That does not mean that trans people need to be driven off of social media. Jehovah, Jesus, Allah, and Vishnu do not exist, but that does not mean that religious people need to be driven off of social media. The only things are that they cannot compel people to accept their lies, and they cannot silence those who are telling the truth.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:3 Your choice bro

“ The only things are that they cannot compel people to accept their lies, and they cannot silence those who are telling the truth.”

But you aren’t telling the truth. You are demonstrably wrong in multiple fields. Biology, basic science, legally, constitutionally, and basic human decency. These fine people have been trying to tell your bigoted ass that for months now. At this point you should really stop and reflect on this saying. The only single conmen denominator to all my problems is me. If not it’s no skin off my back and I can happily go back to making fun of what a piece of human garbage you are.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:3

The only things are that they cannot compel people to accept their lies, and they cannot silence those who are telling the truth.

And compelling them of an often troubled and traumatic past, by repeatedly telling them you variation of the truth will drive them off of social media.

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Hyman Rosen (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:4

No one should be forced to affirm lies in order to comfort someone who needs to believe those lies. And even if everyone were willing to lie to comfort those people, reality itself would not be so accommodating. Transwomen are men, no matter how much costuming, medicine, and surgery are applied to them, and that biological fact cannot help but manifest in noticeable ways, especially to the transwomen themselves who get to see their bodies when not maximally costumed.

bhull242 (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:5

That you do not agree with their definitions of terms like “gender” or “men” doesn’t make their statements false as they are intended.

Also, you severely overestimate the differences between the genders. People who don’t even dress up can be confused for the wrong gender quite easily.

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Hyman Rosen (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:6

You don’t get to redefine words and then demand that everyone who uses those words adhere to the new definitions instead of the old ones. Women’s single-sex spaces are for real women as long as that’s what those real women want, and no attempt by woke gender ideologues to redefine the word to include men compels anyone to admit those men to women’s single-sex spaces because of the new definition.

“Calling a tail a leg doesn’t make it a leg.”

Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:7

Women’s single-sex spaces are for real women as long as that’s what those real women want

I can’t wait to see you call for police to inspect the genitals of every woman, cis or trans, who enters a public restroom intended for women. Nothing like the threat of public humiliation and legalized sexual assault to teach those evil trans people what for~!

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Naughty Autie says:

Re: Re: Re:9

Littering falls under the term ‘casual wrongdoing’, a person using the facilities appropriate to their gender identity does not. Or are you saying that intersex females should be made to use the men’s toilets and changing rooms just to make you feel better? And stop-and-search? Used in the UK to detect knife crime before it becomes serious, so hardly an example of preventing ‘casual wrongdoing’. (-_Q)

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:7

“You don’t get to redefine words and then demand that everyone who uses those words adhere to the new definitions instead of the old ones.”

Projection thy name is hyman.

Naughty Autie says:

Re: Re: Re:7

“Calling a tail a leg doesn’t make it a leg.”

Right, and calling a transphobe ‘gender critical’ doesn’t make them critical of gender. Uh, what was your point again?

bhull242 (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:7

You don’t get to redefine words and then demand that everyone who uses those words adhere to the new definitions instead of the old ones.

I’m not saying you have to adhere to the new ones, but when arguing against someone else’s claims, you should interpret them based on the definitions they used; otherwise, you’re arguing against a strawman.

Women’s single-sex spaces are for real women as long as that’s what those real women want, […]

Ciswomen don’t actually have the final say on this matter, and plenty of them don’t agree with you anyways. Nor have you demonstrated why the taboos of some should overcome safety issues.

[…] and no attempt by woke gender ideologues to redefine the word to include men compels anyone to admit those men to women’s single-sex spaces because of the new definition.

You really need to stop with these strawmen. No one argues that the definition is the reason to have transwomen use women’s restrooms and such.

“Calling a tail a leg doesn’t make it a leg.”

Saying that gender and sex are the same doesn’t make them the same, either.

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Hyman Rosen (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:8

No. Women’s locker rooms and women’s prisons should not use the definition of “women” that anyone but women use. Delusional men who want to redefine “women” to include themselves, and the woke gender ideologues who support them, do not get to force women’s spaces to use their definitions.

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Hyman Rosen (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:8

Whether real women will have control over their spaces is one battle in the culture wars. Your are welcome to try to wrest that control away, and you will be fought.

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Cattress (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:9

Yes, and as a real woman, I’m telling you to butt the fuck out. You are not a feminist or our ally. No one asked you, and there is nothing chivalrous about you, especially when you are punching down. You are just a small minded bigot, exactly the kind of person that most people don’t want lurking around in person or online.
You can see yourself out. I have no trouble shutting down terfs that that think they have a valid voice within women’s rights. One consensus within feminism is that women’s rights are human rights, and no one can be excluded if you are fighting for women’s rights. I’d tell the misandrist to fuck off too if they were real. (Ooo I would love to tear down “moms for liberty”, because like so many other fascist, they have no business using the word liberty to advance their fascism, nor mom to evoke sympathy from other mothers. They need to go back to terrorizing their neighborhood homeowners association)
You want the right to troll where you aren’t welcome. Why don’t you go find one of those men’s rights groups, and you can cry about how the “real” women gave you the boot in favor of the trans, and how you are really the oppressed ones.

Hyman Rosen (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:10

As always, woke ideologues would love to silence their opponents. Sorry, no. Public affirmation of lies is a problem for everyone, and everyone gets to speak about it.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:5

“No one should be forced to affirm lies in order to comfort someone who needs to believe those lies.”

And yet here you are seeking comfort from us…. for some reason.

Lostinlodos (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:2

I will say this though. More people need to harden up and stick to it!
There shouldn’t be running off so to say.
Harden your spine.
(I like other hard things too like nipples and carrots and but I’m just a 🐸 sometimes).

Seriously though, toughen up. Stand your ground. Both parties could then learn something at times.
I’d like to think despite many of my disagreements the volume of head nodding, and understanding I show, often stands on it’s own.
I learn much, and enjoy the debates here. If I ran off it first mean comment?

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Toom1275 (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:

speech that should be banned because it contributes nothing but noise and offense,

aka your lies about other peoples’ gender.

Cattress (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:

Define the difference between “real” & “woke” harassment/bigotry, which you imply is fake because there are few bones of that “woke” horse that you haven’t pulverized yet so you must keep beating it. I’m sure I have an idea of who you think is deserving of being treated shitty and therefore is not actually suffering bigotry and harassment, but humor me. (Seriously, I gotta rant a little here. The right loves to latch onto phrases and concepts that they know absolutely nothing about and then broadcast their ignorance while acting like they are sooo clever. Well, not acting. They seem to believe they are clever for disingenuous talking points that only prove how little they actually know. How many concepts, in the last 10-20 years has the right claimed is the boogie man lurking in your back yard, ready to rip off your children’s heads as they rip apart the fabric of society and fluff the devil for action? And what really burns my biscuits is that you dopes are terrified of the monsters you made up all on your own, but are willfully oblivious to troubled teens blowing the heads off your neighbors and children, climate change burning down your house, causing droughts, extreme weather that the folks profiting from oil and gas hand over fist refused to harden against the climate change they are driving. And then bleeding the survivors dry with the governments blessing. I mean, do you people hear yourselves? Quick, call an emergency session, children attended a daytime family oriented drag show! This must be made illegal immediately! Take those children and drop them into the system, with some people that will make them go to church, where they are safe! VS Regulate guns that are being used to slaughter double digits of innocent people, little kids at a time?! Nah, get outta here with that commie Marxist shit. They were just black and brown people threatening my white majority. Arm those teachers I was calling groomers last week.)
Then explain why your definition of “real” harassment/bigotry should supercede that of the owners and executives, the people they consult, you know, people who actually know something and have actual standing in the matter.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:

So I should allow you to murder LGBT+ and minorities on my property.

Why do you hate property laws, Hyman? Is it because certain states have CASTLE DOCTRINE that allows me to defend my own house and home, and by extension, allows me to chase you off my property for whatever reason?

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Thad (profile) says:

Re:

The big platforms should not be engaging in viewpoint-based censorship except when they are speaking for themselves.

Good news, then: every moderation action is a platform speaking for itself. It’s the platform saying “We don’t want to be associated with this speech.”

Like when I click the little flag icon on your post and then add you to my block list, that’s me exercising my freedom of speech and association and saying “You’re an asshole. There’s the door.”

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Hyman Rosen (profile) says:

Re: Re:

And when they’re the primary platforms that people want to use to speak, they should not be surprised when the people’s government takes a dim view of viewpoint-based discrimination and seeks to do something about it.

The constitution can be worked around, as any liberal pushing for “common-sense him laws” is willing to tell you.

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Rocky says:

Re: Re: Re:

And when they’re the primary platforms that people want to use to speak, they should not be surprised when the people’s government takes a dim view of viewpoint-based discrimination and seeks to do something about it.

You sure you aren’t a communist in disguise? A really stupid one?

The constitution can be worked around, as any liberal pushing for “common-sense him laws” is willing to tell you.

And there it is again, you are willing to shit on the constitution without compunction because you can’t stop being an asshole. Do you also want to do other shitty things because other people have also done them?

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:2

And when they’re the primary platforms that people want to use to speak, they should not be surprised when the people’s government takes a dim view of viewpoint-based discrimination and seeks to do something about it.

You sure you aren’t a communist in disguise? A really stupid one?

Please point out the Communist Party in the UK. You sure you aren’t a Republican in disguise? A really stupid one?

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:2

Ah, the tragicomic comments from people who have no clue about the contextual background. “The people’s government” was the phrase used, not “the United States government,” and some countries do indeed have such legislation.

Rocky says:

Re: Re: Re:3

And those countries has fuck all to do with the US, the US constitution, section 230 and a person who’s arguments boils down to that the US government should seize the means of production, ie take control of social media. That he used the phrase “peoples government” is just another symptom of how the rightwing echo-sphere have started using arguments and phrases that looks like they have been lifted straight out of the Communist Manifesto.

Let me reiterate and give you a hint: When the discussion pertains to the US constitution and someone have espoused arguments that can only work if the government take control of social media, that’s the contextual background. You are of course free to make an ass out of yourself by not understanding this while making a comment that’s totally irrelevant.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:4

Let me reiterate your argument: “Only the US has a population of people, and therefore only their government can possibly be described as ‘the people’s government’.” The other AC’s not the one looking like a shit here, fella. Wind your neck in.

Rocky says:

Re: Re: Re:5

Ah, otherwording what I said outside the context of the debate. A real stand up move, isn’t it? The move of idiot assholes and trolls. Now, fuck off.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:6

As it says in the Bible: “Let he who is without sin throw the first stone.” The one without sin ain’t you, fella.

Rocky says:

Re: Re: Re:9

You are the typical low level basement dweller that are to fucking stupid to come up with any kind of argument, instead you continually project your inadequacy in every inane comment and they all lack even the tiniest glimmer of intelligence and wit. You are dullard and a boor.

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Hyman Rosen (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:2

I have bad eyes and I type on a tablet using a swipe keyboard that often misinterprets what I’ve tried to type. “Common-sense gun laws”, obviously. On a QWERTY keyboard, each letter of “him” is one to the right of each letter in “gun”.

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PaulT (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:3

You should probably type more carefully. Not only wouldn’t you make silly typos, it might give you time to reflect on how astoundingly stupid the words you’re attempting to type actually are.

Naughty Autie says:

Re: Re: Re:3

I also have bad eyes (being astigmatic prevents me wearing my glasses for close-up work), so I don’t use Swype for anything. Even without it I make mistakes, but at least those errors are fewer and my comments don’t contain completely nonsensical phrases.

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Naughty Autie says:

Re: Re: Re:5

You would. Anyone that doesn’t sycophantically fall all over themselves to agree with your wrongpoints is producing nothing but ‘nonsensical drivel’ in your nonpinion. Just because I don’t hate people based on their characteristics, that doesn’t make me wrong and you right. Quite the opposite, in fact.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:3

The more rubbish you come out with, the more the “Swype keyboard” thing looks like an excuse. How else could you turn “all men are created equal” into “trans men are delusional and have no right to exist in my world”?

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Hyman Rosen (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:4

As I have explained before, rights are simply the people with a force monopoly voluntarily restricting their actions because they think such restrictions make for a better society. Such restrictions are arbitrary, and hence we had “all men are created equal” coexisting with slavery.

Trans men and women are delusional but have every right to exist in my world. They do not, or rather should not, have the right to compel others to affirm their beliefs or to force their way into single-sex spaces for which their bodies disqualify them.

Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:5

Trans men and women are delusional but have every right to exist in my world. They do not, or rather should not, have the right to compel others to affirm their beliefs or to force their way into single-sex spaces for which their bodies disqualify them.

Just so you know…

Gay men and women are sinners but have every right to exist in my world. They do not, or rather should not, have the right to compel others to affirm their sexual orientation or to force their way into heterosexual spaces for which their sexual orientation disqualifies them.

Jewish men and women are delusional but have every right to exist in my world. They do not, or rather should not, have the right to compel others to affirm their religious beliefs or to force their way into non-Jewish spaces for which their religion disqualifies them.

Black men and women are inherently inferior but have every right to exist in my world. They do not, or rather should not, have the right to compel others to treat them as people or to force their way into whites-only spaces for which their race disqualifies them.

…your hate isn’t original.

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Hyman Rosen (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:6

Except for the Black/white case, those things that you think are counterexamples are not.

A dating or matchmaking service is within its rights to pair up only heterosexual couples, one of each sex. Gay people cannot force these services to provide same-sex matchups.

Catholic churches require that people who want to marry in the church, receive communion, or participate in other religious rites must be Catholic. Jewish congregations, especially Orthodox and Conservative ones, will utterly reject Messianic Jews.

The Black/white case is different because we have decided as a society that we do not want such distinctions, and we will use force if necessary to prevent discrimination. But even here, we have the case of Biden proclaiming that he would appoint a Black woman to the Supreme Court, and colleges using race as a partial criterion for admission.

Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:7

Except for the Black/white case, those things that you think are counterexamples are not.

Do you think Jews aren’t discriminated against in nominally secular areas of society in cities/states where any religion other than Judaism is the dominant religion? Do you think gay people aren’t discriminated against in nominally neutral areas in cities/states where heterosexuality is the dominant sexual orientation?

I can assure you that, like the trans people you and your eliminationist rhetoric seek to drive into a private hell (or the literal one), those two groups do face discrimination and hatred based on their religion or sexual orientation. That people aren’t as open about this discrimination as they are about their anti-trans bigtory doesn’t mean the discrimination doesn’t exist.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:8

Hyman can’t see it, because he’s bought into the lies peddled by the alt-right. Trans people would never stoop to his level of bigotry.

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Hyman Rosen (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:8

Just as there are single-sex spaces for which people with the wrong bodies are disqualified, there are single-religion spaces and single-orientation spaces. Even for race, there are Black fraternities and sororities (although these days they do not explicitly restrict membership by race, generally, but it’s strongly implied: https://www.sigmapiphi.org/home/).

You seem to think that the existence of such spaces is wrongly discriminatory, which is odd, since woke gender ideologues are not seeking to do away with single-sex spaces.

Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:9

You seem to think that the existence of such spaces is wrongly discriminatory

You seem to be intentionally misunderstanding my point. Fuck you.

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Cattress (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:9

Every February do you get your panties in a twist over Black History Month because you don’t see why there isn’t also a white history month?

Hyman Rosen (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:10

No. For manifestly obvious reasons, Black history in the United States is worthy of special notice. Having White History Month would be silly, since there is no single “white people” to have such a shared history. Instead, we have separate ethnic origin events usually associated with holidays – Italians with Columbus Day, Irish with St. Patrick’s day, and do forth.

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AR-15 Owner says:

Re: Re: Re:5

As I have explained before, rights are simply the people with a force monopoly voluntarily restricting their actions because they think such restrictions make for a better society.

Really? Then please tell me your address so I can go round there and put an end to your force monopoly “right to life”. What’s sauce for the goose with a penis is sauce for the gander without respect, right?

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Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re:

They should not be deciding what is hate speech, what is bigotry, or what is disinformation when they are acting as platform hosts for hundreds of millions of users.

If I were a Twitter user and another user called me a f⸺t regardless of context, for what reason should the law deny Twitter the right to suspend or ban the user who used the anti-queer slur? (FYI: When I was a Twitter user, I got dinged for using that word in the context of discussing anti-queer attitudes.)

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Hyman Rosen (profile) says:

Re: Re:

It shouldn’t. That’s what I mean about real, as opposed to woke, harassment. On the other hand, someone should be allowed to say that they believe you are going to Hell for your sexual practices. Similarly, I would be ok with banning someone for using the “t____y” weird directed against another person, but not for saying that they are deluded about their gender.

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Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:

I’m loathe to get into another slapfight with you over this, but since I’m not terribly busy and I’m in a bit of a mood

On the other hand, someone should be allowed to say that they believe you are going to Hell for your sexual practices.

Yes or no: Should that someone be free from any and all consequences, up to and including a ban from a social media platform that bars harassment and hate speech directed towards queer people?

I would be ok with banning someone for using the “t____y” [word] directed against another person, but not for saying that they are deluded about their gender

What’s the difference between using an anti-queer slur and insulting a trans person’s very existence to their face? (ProTip: If you say “there is none”, chances are you’re fine with the kind of anti-trans harassment that ultimately seeks to drive trans people out of accepting communities and into a closet so deep that the residents of Narnia are wondering what the hell is going on out there.)

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Hyman Rosen (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:2

The difference is between “fighting words” insults directed against a person versus a statement of beliefs that are in opposition to the other person’s. In a pluralistic society, it is always going to be the case that some people will find other lifestyles and behaviors to be offensive, wrong, or immoral. In a free society, they get to say that, and explain their own notions of what is good, true, and moral.

Naughty Autie says:

Re: Re: Re:3

Well, my belief is that you are a bigoted shitstain who would be doing the world a massive favour if you were swinging from a scaffold.

Naughty Autie says:

Re: Re: Re:

‘Free speech’ and ‘consequence free speech’ are two entirely different concepts, chump. How many times do we have to explain this to you?

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Rocky says:

Re:

The big platforms should not be engaging in viewpoint-based censorship except when they are speaking for themselves. They should not be deciding what is hate speech, what is bigotry, or what is disinformation when they are acting as platform hosts for hundreds of millions of users. If these bills wind up punishing the companies for doing that, good.

Hundreds of millions of users don’t like assholes, racists, hate speech, bigotry or misinformation, and they don’t want to be associated with that. Your views are that of an entitled asshole who lack any kind of discretion or propriety, you happily assert that your right to say whatever you want without consequence trump other peoples rights.

It’s you and your type of people who make the world a worse place to live in.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:

They do not have to suffer the company of people they do not like, so go and speak somewhere where your words are more welcome.

Naughty Autie says:

Re:

Here’s the thing: if you talk smack about the landlord’s mother when you’re in the pubic louse, why shouldn’t he toss you out on your ear? Same goes if you talk smack about groups Alphabet feels should be protected from that on their private property. Don’t like that? Then stay offline so you don’t have to see it.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re:

You are supporting outright Nazis, as what they want is the ability to intimidate everybody else into remaining silent so that they can gain power.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re:

So I should allow you to murder LGBT+ and minorities on my property.

Why do you hate property laws, Hyman? Is it because certain states have CASTLE DOCTRINE that allows me to defend my own house and home, and by extension, allows me to chase you off my property for whatever reason?

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That One Guy (profile) says:

Re: Re:

Well, unless you consider ‘being an asshole’ a viewpoint or political position in which case they are and the platforms are better off for it, just like any other private property would be for the owner or staff showing a disruptive and/or abrasive jackass the door so everyone else doesn’t have to deal with them.

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Chozen says:

Re: Re: Re:

Since when are “so-called ‘trans’ people are deluded” and “gay men shouldn’t be allowed to corrupt innocent straight men with their dicks” not viewpoints?

Lostinlodos (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:2

Yes, yes. We know you’re afraid some day you’ll find a dick you like and have to spend eternity in hell.
Here’s a church father’s note for you: STA: the thought of the possible is worse than want or act.

Back to the closet now. There’s a real discussion going on here.

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Anonymous Coward says:

One line makes the story

This:

If Apple or Google kicked them out of app stores, or downgraded them in search results,…

Applies to everyone, everywhere, always. Not everyone can be first. Anyone who comes in second (or more apropos, “second page”) will feel they can sue their way to a better ranking.

Naughty Autie says:

Democrats Need To Get Their Head Out Of The Sand: The Only Reason GOP Is Supporting Their ‘Antitrust’ Bills Is To Force Companies To Host Disinfo

FTFY, Mike. From what I can tell, these bills aren’t about preventing or punishing acts of antitrust, but rather preventing and/or punishing a company’s exercise of its free speech rights. Just sayin’.

That One Guy (profile) says:

Re:

However anti-trust may be been used for in the past these days it seems to be pretty solidly and solely wielded as a ‘I don’t like you/what you said/did so prepare to suffer for it’ cudgel.

Naughty Autie says:

Re: Re:

I’ve never seen anti-trust used that way, but I’ve seen laws against it used like that a few times. Classic First Amendment violation when it’s done in the States.

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That One Guy (profile) says:

FOSTA all over again

I can’t help but be reminded of FOSTA and how people knowledgeable in the field warned those pushing the bill about it’s dangerous ‘unintentional’ side-effects only to be brushed off and ignored, only for it to turn out that the people who claimed they knew what they were talking about did in fact know what they were talking about.

If the democrat sponsors/authors of the bill have been informed of the problems, have a chance to fix them and have refused to do so it seems entirely reasonable to assume that their inaction is because those problematic outcomes are features of the bill, not bugs.

As for the non-politician supporters my first response would have to be ‘put up or shut up’. If they think getting sued is no big deal then they should sign a legally binding agreement that they will pay the legal fees a company might incur from being sued thanks to this bill, and if they refuse it should be seen and treated as them admitting that they don’t believe it would be cheap or easy to fight such lawsuits.

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Bilvin Lickspittle says:

Are the Republicans wrong?

It’s often been a principle of the left that no one should be allowed to become a monopoly in that they are the only (effective) supplier of a given commodity. And that they definitely tend to agree that if a monopoly becomes abusive this only compounds the problem and demands the solution that much more.

How then are the big social media companies anything other than monopolies? And not just any monopolies. They’re not selling dishwasher detergent or automobile brake parts.

To claim that Twitter or Facebook has any true competitors is obnoxiously stupid. They provide access to communicate to the public. Our very right to freedom of speech. To claim that they do not monopolize freedom of speech because you or I could get up on a soapbox and preach to the crowd on Main Street is asinine. You might as well have said Bell Telephone was no monopoly because one could always write a letter and send it via Pony Express. And yet no one cried when the courts forced Ma Bell to break up.

Twitter and Facebook do not sell this access to public communication… which in some ways makes it all worse. Because they do not sell it, they give it away for free and withhold it based on standards all their own. To the people banned, it can seem arbitrary and unfair, and there is no recourse in many cases.

(And this isn’t just a free speech thing either… Amazon is a true monopoly, even by your standards, whoever it is that happens to be reading this. When they ban you, you find yourself unable to purchase entire categories of products, brick and mortar stores having been run out of business long ago. What then?)

This doesn’t excuse the bullshit the Republicans are undoubtedly trying to add to these bills. But in general, moderation is absolutely just another type of monopoly, and one that we will all suffer for if it goes unchecked.

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Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re:

How then are the big social media companies anything other than monopolies?

Because Twitter and Facebook compete with themselves and with Discord, the Fediverse, IRC servers, Truth Social, and literally any other communications protocol/service on the Internet. Twitter and Facebook are not the only interactive web services on the Internet⁠—only the most popular. Their rise was preceded by other largely dominant services (e.g., Myspace, Livejournal) that fell to the wayside once Twitter- and Facebook-style social media became the norm. Market dominance alone doesn’t make them a monopoly. You need a better argument than “they’re a monopoly because they’re big”.

They provide access to communicate to the public. Our very right to freedom of speech.

They are not public squares. I’ve a long-ass copypasta with three different legal citations (one of which is from the Supreme Court) that agrees with that assertion.

Twitter and Facebook allow you access to communicate with anyone who uses/browses Twitter and Facebook. Usage of their services is a privilege, not a right⁠—and that privilege can be revoked at any time for damn near any reason. If you lose that privilege, you can go find a different platform to use or you can make your own. But you can’t legally force Twitter, Facebook, or any other interactive web service to host your speech for you.

Twitter and Facebook do not sell this access to public communication… which in some ways makes it all worse. Because they do not sell it, they give it away for free and withhold it based on standards all their own.

So can Parler, Gab, Truth Social, and any other right-wing shitpit that has different standards. What’s your point?

To the people banned, it can seem arbitrary and unfair, and there is no recourse in many cases.

Nobody owes you a platform or an audience at their expense. Also: If so you’re dependent on a single service that being banned from that service will somehow ruin you, that’s your fault for thinking a single point of failure won’t ever fail.

brick and mortar stores having been run out of business long ago

I don’t recall all the brick-and-mortar retail stores in my area having closed down within the past five minutes, but I guess I haven’t been paying attention to the news~.

moderation is absolutely just another type of monopoly

And here I thought nobody could say anything dumber about content moderation on interactive web services than “moderation is censorship”. Congratulations on your No-Prize! 👏

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That One Guy (profile) says:

Re:

To claim that Twitter or Facebook has any true competitors is obnoxiously stupid.

Did… you know what, I’ll give you a few minutes to see it.

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John Nemesh says:

Re: let me know when this applies to cable companies and cell phone service providers...

Until it does, I call BS on this argument.

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JMT (profile) says:

Re:

Twitter and Facebook do not sell this access to public communication… which in some ways makes it all worse. Because they do not sell it, they give it away for free and withhold it based on standards all their own.

Wow, you really hate the concept of privately owned property.

Cattress (profile) says:

Re:

Have you ever, tried using a search engine? Like, have you ever looked to see if there were other viable platforms beside FB and Twitter (you found Tech Dirt to shitty up the comments afterall) where you,and pretty much every imaginable interest group can find like minds?
And Amazon, blocking customers from shopping for certain things, or altogether, for any reason other than trying to commit fraud through a return scam or hurt a delivery driver? 🤣 Why? They may choose not to allow someone to sell things through them because of the reputational harm. They have the right and it makes good business sense. But without a specific interaction where the consumer has acted egregiously,in direct relation to purchasing or receiving their package (like attacking a delivery driver), which was witnessed by other people, how could they possibly suffer harm to their reputation by virtue of completing a sales transaction? No one is boycotting Acme because suspected Klansman shop there. But if those Klansman actively harassed other shoppers, and the store did nothing about it, they may end up getting boycotted, which would likely compel them to keep the Klansman out.
And along the same lines of finding alternative social media sites, there are many many many other options for buying and selling online. Do you really believe that grocery stores, Walmart and Target are going to cease brick and mortar operations? That there won’t be any sort of shopping malls where one can see items in person and try them on to see if they fit? If the makeup is appropriate for their skin tone, that they like the way perfume smells? Do you think flea markets, garage sales and other person to person sales are going the way of the dodo?
I don’t think you even bothered to consider how dumb any of that garbage sounds.

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PaulT (profile) says:

Re:

“To claim that Twitter or Facebook has any true competitors is obnoxiously stupid”

I assume that reason you used the singular “has” instead of the plural “have” is a pathetic attempt to pretend they’re the same thing and deflect anyone noting that naming 2 competing services while claiming they have no competitors is really stupid.

Because, otherwise, the fact that many reading this can not only name at least 5 competing social media services, but 5 they actually use on a semi-regular basis themselves destroys your point before you can start claiming that the named competitors don’t count because (random bullshit you made up just now to wave away valid criticism)

Lostinlodos (profile) says:

Re: Re:

the fact that many reading this can not only name at least 5 competing social media services, but 5 they actually use on a semi-regular basis themselves…

Or that people can only communicate through them. There’s how many billion connected people? The two companies here are a a simple fraction of personal communication. Message me on a social service? I may log in and see it some time in the next year, or so. If ever.

benjaminklein (user link) says:

will the American Innovation and Choice Online Act transforms platforms into common carriers and do you think that twitter will be covered by the americain choice and innovation act online ?

i have read on twitter that the American Innovation and Choice Online Act may well be interpreted to make tech platforms common carriers unable to do any content moderation because blocking or downrating hate speech terrorists ect… would discriminate against that content.
is it true ? and finally do you think that twitter will be Covered by the American Innovation and Choice Online Act ? thanks for your answers guys.

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John Nemesh says:

1st Amendment is only valid when it benefits their side...

Ever notice that the fascists who bemoan the Twitter and Facebook bans for their racism, transphobia and hate speech don’t have any problem asking for the Federal Government to shut down journalists and the media for “fake news”?

They only care about the Constitution when it suits them, otherwise, they are just as happy to join with those who would overthrow the government and wipe their behinds with the document!

Pixelation says:

Backfire

Well, if this type of shit passes, the Left will have to crank up the disinformation machine regarding the Right and see how they scream bloody murder even louder.

Now everyone will know that those on the Right have been selling children into sex slavery in pizza joints. At least, that’s what will be said on Twitter…

Ron DeSantis says:

Re:

But I wanted a four-cheese pizza, not four images of young children engaging in unspeakable acts! This is all the fault of math textbooks talking about men that think they’re women!

Rocky says:

Re:

Now everyone will know that those on the Right have been selling children into sex slavery in pizza joints. At least, that’s what will be said on Twitter…

I think you got it all muddled up, the Right is actually behind all those Pizza Delivery Porn videos in an effort to knock women up to prove than convenience abortions are a thing, the pizzas used in the videos where baked by child slaves in one of Epstein’s penthouse apartments furnished with some WWII ovens from Germany that gets serviced occasionally by some dudes in black uniforms that live on a secret moon base.

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Anonymous Coward says:

The left is all for 1st amendment rights of tech companies when they censor speech they don’t like, but have a company exercise 1st amendment rights to espouse conservative viewpoints and it’s suddenly “Citizen’s United must be done away with!”

Naughty Autie says:

Re: Re:

If I recall the case correctly, Citizens United was important for freedom of speech, but very bad for actual citizens because it allowed corporations (like AT&T) to spend huge amounts lobbying for bills in their favour, eventually leading to the current oligopoly of phoneline and network providers and ISPs.

twitterben says:

someone knows if twitter will be covered by the american innovation and choice online act

i have a question guys do you know if twitter will be covered by the american innovation and choice online act if yes ? how twitter be impacted ? will they became unworkable for anybody who use it ?

morganwick (profile) says:

I don’t want to think Democrats secretly want Republicans to win because fascism is perceived to be better for their true bosses than actually working for ordinary people, but they don’t make it easy sometimes.

To claim that Twitter or Facebook has any true competitors is obnoxiously stupid.

Did… you know what, I’ll give you a few minutes to see it.

— That One Guy
Made the Last Word by LostInLoDOS

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