Not How Any Of This Works: Mariah Carey Sued Over Title Of Song
from the copyright-grifting dept
You may have heard that, on Friday, Mariah Carey and Sony Music were sued by a guy named Andy Stone (pretty sure a different Andy Stone than the one who leads communications for Facebook) for allegedly infringing on his song “All I Want For Christmas, Is You.” What you might not have heard is that this is possibly the dumbest, most ridiculous copyright lawsuit I’ve seen in ages, and I see a lot of really dumb copyright lawsuits. You can read the nine-page lawsuit yourself, and marvel at the fact that two lawyers actually put their names on a complaint so frivolous. My biggest question is whether the lawyers or Stone will end up paying the legal fees of Carey and Sony, not to mention the sanctions against the lawyers.
Let’s get the basics out of the way first. The two songs are different. The only similarity is the title. That’s it. There is no copying. This isn’t a Blurred Lines kind of situation where the songs sound kinda similar. They’re entirely different songs. The only thing they have even remotely in common is the name. I hesitate to link to either song, because the Carey song is absolutely ubiquitous and totally unavoidable during the holiday season, and it should be a crime to listen to it before Thanksgiving. As for the Stone song, released by Stone’s alter ego Vince Vance and the Valiants, there’s a big part of me that wonders if this is all just an abuse of the legal system to try to get some attention to his own song. But, for the sake of completeness, here’s the Carey version, released in 1994, and here’s the Stone/Vance version, released in 1989.
So, the songs are totally different. The music is different. The music style is different. The lyrics are different. The title is the same, and I guess you could argue that the “theme” of the songs are the same, but there’s no copyright in the theme that a song is about. That’s not a thing. Under US copyright law, you cannot copyright “words and short phrases such as names, titles, and slogans.”
And, even if you could magically make the title covered by copyright — and you cannot — Stone would have a bigger problem, because soul singer Carla Thomas released a song with that same title, written by Andrew Charles “AC” Wiliams, in 1963. You can hear that one too, if you want. It also has the same title and “theme” and came out more than two and a half decades before Stone’s song. So if Carey’s version somehow infringes on Stone’s (it doesn’t), then Stone’s would necessarily infringe on the Williams/Thomas song.
Of course, that’s not how any of this works, and even a halfway decent copyright lawyer would tell you that. However, Stone’s lawyers, Douglas Schmidt and Andrew Abrams, do not appear to be halfway decent copyright lawyers. They appear to be absolutely terrible lawyers.
Almost every part of the complaint is a problem. It’s almost as if Schmidt and Abrams didn’t even want to put in the bare minimum level of effort to file a complaint. It’s filed in federal court in Louisiana. Why is Louisiana the right venue? The complaint does not say. The complaint admits that none of the parties is a resident of Louisiana (Stone is the closest, but he’s in Mississippi). The only incredibly weak argument they make, which is not nearly enough to make Louisiana the venue, is that Sony Music is “authorized to do and doing business in the State of Louisiana.” That’s not enough to argue jurisdiction.
They then claim that Stone’s song is copyrightable subject matter, which, sure, it is. But they never allege (because they cannot) that Carey’s song copies any of Stone’s song (because it did not). Also, this is not a big deal, but they claim that the copyright registration was filed as Exhibit A when it appears they forgot to actually file it. The docket on PACER shows no such exhibit, though I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt that the song was actually registered. But, unless they can show that a copyright-protected element of the song was copied in an infringing manner, there’s no legitimate complaint here, and Stone’s lawyers don’t even try to claim that!
This is basically the extent of the argument in the complaint:
Defendants never sought or obtained permission from Plaintiff to use “All I Want for Christmas is You” in creating, reproducing, recording, distributing, selling, or publicly performing said song.
Plaintiff never gave Defendants permission, consent, or a license to use “All I Want for Christmas is You” for any purpose, including the creation of a derivative work based on “All I Want for Christmas is You”.
Except… they didn’t need to obtain permission because they didn’t copy anything. I mean, this is basic stuff that even non-copyright lawyers understand.
In the specific copyright claim, they argue:
Plaintiff became aware of Defendants use of his work “All I Want for Christmas is You”, without license, right or authority, and by reproducing and distributing to the worldwide general public via the internet and interstate commerce. Plaintiff’s counsel initially made contact with Defendants in April of 2021 to regarding the unauthorized use of the song. Thereafter, Plaintiff’s counsel sent a letter via certified mail on or about December 20, 2021, regarding the unauthorized use of “All I Want for Christmas is You”, thereby putting them on notice that the creation a derivative work, without authorization and payment to Plaintiff represents a violation of Plaintiff’s rights under 17 U.S.C. Sections 106, et seq.
But, again, that’s not how any of this works. Nowhere is any copying ever alleged, because it can’t be.
There is also the issue of the statute of limitations. There is a three year statute of limitations on copyright, but the Supreme Court has decided this means that even if you miss the initial three year window, you can still sue for the most recent three years. So, if there was infringement — which again, I feel the need to remind you, there is not, nor is any actually alleged — then they could be suing over the most recent three years of infringement.
The complaint doesn’t even seem to acknowledge this and just asks for $20 million dollars for “willful copyright infringement, in addition to punitive damages and compensation for the damages.” He’s not getting that. And given that under copyright law it’s much easier for a defendant to get plaintiffs to cover attorneys’ fees for frivolous litigation, it seems decently likely that Stone may be on the hook for the top flight lawyers that Sony and Carey are likely to throw at this.
Oh, and I guess I should mention that Stone’s lawyers make two other claims here: one for unjust enrichment, and one for Lanham Act violations. Neither one is well pled, because it would be impossible to plead either in any competent manner, but here the lawyers again don’t even do the bare minimum, and basically just “on information and belief” their way through a bunch of nonsense.
This is a bad complaint. It should be thrown out. Stone should have to pay Carey and Sony’s lawyers, and it seems like there’s a decent chance that Stone’s lawyers could face Rule 11 sanctions for filing such a silly, poorly drafted, bullshit lawsuit.
Filed Under: all i want for christmas is you, andy stone, copyright, louisiana, sanctions, song titles, vince vance
Companies: sony music
Comments on “Not How Any Of This Works: Mariah Carey Sued Over Title Of Song”
It’s clear they were just hoping to get paid to go away and when that didn’t happen, they had to sue to try to be more obnoxious to get that sunk cost payout. They should have to pay legal fees for filing this bullshit. The lawyers should face an ethics inquiry for bilking a client over such an obvious waste of time and money.
Re:
Agreed. If there was an actual case, the plaintiff would not only not have waited so long to raise it, but also would have filed it more appropriately as a trademark case.
Re: Re:
To be fair, he does also have a Lanham Act claim, which is trademark law.
But that’s bogus too. Two songs can have the same title without being a trademark violation. And with trademark law, the fact that he waited all these years makes more of a difference, doesn’t it? You tend to lose trademarks if you don’t enforce them, as opposed to copyright.
Re: Re: Re:
To be fair, he does also have a Lanham Act claim, which is trademark law.
I thought Autie already said that. *checks back* Yep, he did.
Re: Re: Re:2
How do you know if Autie is a he?
CAN I GET AN AMEN!
Re:
AMEN!
Re: And please consider the yearly cycle
After Thanksgiving is before Thanksgiving.
Re: Re:
don’t you even start…
Re: Re:
Playing that song should only be legal between the time period that runs from the day after Thanksgiving until December 25th.
Re: Re: Re:
Honestly, i think the christmas thing shouldn’start any earlier than 2 weeks prior. 3 weeks would be my bargaining limit.
Re: Re: Re:2
The War on Christmas will continue until Saint Nicholas of Yule returns the borders to their original positions per the Black Friday accords.
Re: Re: Re:3
Fine. You get another amen.
Re: Re: Re:3 Forget the war
No view on the “war” from me.
But we should stop the cruel and unusual punishment: the torture of the population with the same 10 songs playing in a continual loop. Over, and over and over and over an … 🤮
Start on the 20th, end on the 30th!
I could do without the constant loud bell ringing too.
Re: Re: Re:4 If it were up to me...
…Just one Christmas song would be played around Christmas, and it would be Ryuuichi Sakamoto’s “Merry Christmas, Mr. Lawrence”.
Re: Re: Re:5
Agreed. I love that song; it’s got a nice melody and flow, and it doesn’t come off as cheesy in any way.
Re: Re: Re:5 Good stuff
Why don’t stations and stores play good stuff:
Pig – I Killed Santa and Fucked his Elves
Rhys – Slashed Wrists This Christmas
Fall Out Boy – Yule Shoot Your Eye Out
King Diamond – No Presents For Christmas
The Midnight Riders – All I Want for Christmas Is to Kick Your Ass
Spinal Tap – Christmas With The Devil
Val by – It’s Beginning to Look a Lot Like Syphilis
Bad Religion – Fuck Christmas
Wall Of Voodoo – Shouldn’t Have Given Him A Gun For Christmas
The Chieftains- St. Stephen’s Day Murders
TVTVS – Daddy Drank Our Xmas Money
Showcase Showdown – Merry Christmas I Fucked Your Snowman
Etc… so many good songs, so many genres.
Re: Re: Re: Oh, Lord…
…won’t somebody PLEASE think about the Canadians?! ; ]
Re: Re: Re:
That would be a very black Friday indeed. 😉
Re:
i’m not big on amens but, amen.
Thank you.
Re:
…it should be a crime to play it before Thanksgiving.
FTFY. May I also add that it should be a crime for any radio station, shop, supermarket, etc. to play it more than the single time it takes to create the mother of all earworms?
Copyright madness…
Re:
Copyfraud madness, actually. As I noted above, song titles are trademarked, not copyrighted.
Re: Re:
Trademarking song and film titles is abuse of trademark, which is meant to identify the source of a product, and not the product itself.
Re: Re: Re:
Nobody said it isn’t, especially for very common phrases and titles (stares hard at Dibsney), but that doesn’t take away from mine and Mike Masnick’s point that this isn’t a copyright case.
Copyright records
OK, I had to look, and Stone’s version is indeed properly copyrighted — registration PAu001163343 / 1988-11-21. I have to wonder how his cowriter, Troy Powers, feels about all this.
I count up to 16 earlier songs copyrighted with the same title, plus one by Steve Allen from 1959 called All I Want for Christmas Is Your Love. And this is just registrations/renewals since 1978.
Re:
Please research the facts of the case. Yes, both songs are indeed copyrighted, but that doesn’t matter because the only similarity is between the titles, which can’t be copyrighted due to their length. (-_Q) This smacks of the plaintiff trying to get a decision even crappier than the Blurred Lines one.
Re: Re: In violent agreement
I’m not arguing with the point of Mike’s article; if anything, I’m reinforcing it. The point is, there’s nothing special about the title. It’s been used dozens of times. I just had to check to confirm that the copyright really was valid to satisfy my own curiosity.
Re: Re: Re:
Because the lawyers couldn’t be arsed.
Re: Re: Re:
I’m not arguing with the point of Mike’s article; if anything, I’m reinforcing it. The point is, there’s nothing special about the title.
I didn’t understand that at first, but now I do. Sorry, mate.
Re: Re: Re:
Actually, I think the main point flew high over your head: even if a song title is completely unique (S**t Porn on My Laptop, for example), it is actually excluded from copyright protection by the legislation itself. This is why Disney got wrongful wordmarks (a type of trademark) on the titles of Public Domain fairytales; they knew that the law prevented them getting copyrights on these works, so they had to come up with another way to prevent the public using public property.
Techdirt actually did it… They found copyright lawyers more incompetent than suspended lawyer Richard Liebowitz!
Re:
How many times do we have to tell you, dude? It’s not RICO! 😉
Re: Re:
Unless it’s Rico Suave. Then it’s all Rico.
Re: Re: Re:
Funnily enough, Rico Suave was a nickname of mine when I was little!
Re: lawyers more incompetent than ..Richard Liebowitz!
Hey, who do you think is going to be offering to defend him?
It’s Reverse Psychology 101. By having more incompetent people defending him, he will appear less incompetent comparatively, and can then argue that the court should give greater weight to his version of events. Simplez.
David French is going to have a field day with this one.
There are many films with the same name too, this is basic law 101, you can’t sue over a song with the same name and nothing else in common. Maybe the lawyers don’t know how to use Google . I don’t even think the blurred lines decision about being sued over a groove or a
similar melody would hold up in court. Its the expression that matters , the particular sequence of notes and the melody used in the song.
In the area of games it can be a problem as there’s 100s of games being released. It’s getting harder to come up with a new name for a game that’s not been used before. Hence game names like forspoken.
I would like to know what rock Andy has been under for these many years where Mariah’s version has dominated the entire world and he apparently was unaware until recently about this.
Re:
I was a kid when that song was first released. I’ve heard it every Christmas season since then. If this dude is just now getting around to suing Mariah, I have to assume he lives somewhere without electricity.
Re: Re:
‘I’ve heard it every Christmas season since then’
And they wonder why we declared war on christmas.
Have they sued the little girl from Love Actually?
Re:
That wouldn’t actually surprise me, TBH. This wazzock is suing in an inappropriate venue, so I fully expect him to sue an inappropriate defendant (an actress rather than the scriptwriter).
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Lawyers will do whatever their clients request
Lawyers are not supposed to check if the claims in the paperwork actually hold up, the only thing a professional lawyer will do is check that all the things claimed are being recorded to the complaint. If plaintiff has a unfounded claims available, the complaint just need to make explicit record of those claims. No factchecking or filtering of irrelevant nonsense is required. The lawyers wouldn’t be able to do such factchecking anyway, since half of the claims are coming from plaintiff’s history/whether the plaintiff worked as an author for 20 years of his life, and the lawyer cannot really know if that claim is true or not.
Re:
It’s really funny how everyone else should break the law just because you want it that way, but professionals don’t lower themselves to the fever dreams of madmen.
I trust you’ll submit yourself to a lawsuit over that copyright you infringed, then. Anything you say in your defense will be taken as irrelevant nonsense.
Re:
The only thing that’s factual in this pile of bullshit is that lawyers, when all is said and done, have to do their client’s bidding.
Everything else sounds like things lawyers should not be doing if they legitimately value their Bar licences, though Trump’s ideological bullshit has summoned some rather odious examples…
Re:
Uh, no, this is very very wrong. Filing obviously bogus claims can lead to Rule 11 sanctions against a lawyer. And lawyers can and should push back against demands to file such bogus claims. They have a duty to the court to do so.
Re: Re:
Tero has a thing where he believes that anything he has to say about copyright and law in general is a mandate from Heaven – thankfully, none of his insanity has ever been approved in law.
Re: Re: Re:
I believe I have a mandate from Heaven to tell the truth as much as I can, and that what I have to say about copyright and related subjects is a part of that mandate. Why is a belief in such a mandate necessarily a sign of insanity?
Re: Re: Re:2
You’ve misunderstood the post you replied to. Tero doesn’t think he has a holy mandate. Tero thinks his opinions are the holy mandate everyone else should live by.
Re: Re: Re:3
To be fair, Autie may have misunderstood the implied point, but not the stated one. Isn’t that a feature of autism?
Re:
Lawyers are supposed to check if the claims in the paperwork actually hold up because courts generally do not approve of their time being wasted with frivolous cases.
FTFY, you little trout-sniffer. YW.
Re:
“Lawyers are not supposed to check if the claims in the paperwork actually hold up…’
You want to know, how I know you, don’t know any lawyers?
Re: Re:
Officers of the court have legal and ethical obligations. They are tasked to participate to the best of their ability in the functioning of the judicial system to forge justice out of the application of the law and the simultaneous pursuit of the legitimate interests of all parties and the general good of society.
I should clarify for tero that lawyers are officers of the court, although there a fair share of them who have forgotten that.
“Under US copyright law, you cannot copyright ‘words and short phrases such as names, titles, and slogans.’ ” — I always thought that was the case. Does anyone remember how many tunes were released in 1971, all under the title “Superstar”?
Can’t say that I ever heard the song before watching “Love, Actually” but then I’m not what you’d call big on Christmas or TV, so it shouldn’t be surprising. I still haven’t heard it except when watching that movie, so… twice? (And if you don’t want to hear it by the time you get to the end of the movie, then I really do feel sorry for you. Amen?)
Re:
Here’s the thing about Mariah’s song: It’s the most recent Christmas song to become a “standard” in the rotation of songs played at Christmas—the “last great Christmas song”, some might say. Sure, plenty of other original Christmas songs have come out since hers. I bet some of them have been commercially successful, too. But Mariah’s has become so ubiquitous in pop culture that the opening chimes basically act as a signal for the beginning of the Christmas season—which has been coming earlier and earlier every year. (Even Mariah herself has joked about that.)
Mariah’s song was released in 1994 and has been in constant rotation on Christmas music playlists for nearly 30 years. Department stores, supermarkets, radio stations—all of them and more play Mariah’s song during the holiday season. If the dude suing her is only now getting around to suing her for copyright infringement, I can’t fathom how he didn’t know about the song until recently.
And now......
there’s this https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-61714737 Top Gun maker Paramount sued over copyright breach
Someone wants publicity
So I’m sure this Stone guy wants his song played at Christmas but no one’s ever heard of him.
The choice is to spend millions (probably) on promotion and advertising and hope that some people will hear about it.
Or, option 2: hire a lawyer, file an outdated bogus lawsuit, get publicity, and hope Sony pays a few million to settle the lawsuit before it goes to trial.
And even if the lawyers know they won’t win, they get some publicity out of it also.
Though the smarter choice would have been to file this case in November and file an injunction to stop Mariah Carey’s song from being played on the radio.
The Quintessence of Copyright
That this suit is news is proof to me that copyright exists solely as an excuse for extortion.
Re:
Tell that to Wikipedia. I’m very sure they’ll be interested to learn that their copyright is useless for preventing Encyclopaedia Britannica out-competing them by using their content without credit.
Quick and Dirty solution
for the presiding judge to declare that one or both songs are actually “All I want for Christmas is Ewe”, about a love-lorn shepherd’s love for one of his flock, who has just been sent to the abattoir. Then declare that Andy Stone’s is that one … baaaah
Seriously, copyright is turning more and more into a grand fleecing competition, now that the link between the creative and the created work has been effectively buried.
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