Elon Musk Has Got Content Moderation All Figured Out: Delete The “Wrong” And “Bad” Content, But Leave The Rest (And Reinstate Trump)
from the i-can't-believe-we're-all-doing-this dept
Look, we’ve tried to explain over and over again that Elon Musk doesn’t understand free speech or content moderation. He also seems entirely clueless about the incredible lengths that Twitter has gone to in order to actually protect free speech online (including fighting in court over it) and what it has done to deal with the impossible complexities of running an online platform. Every time he opens his mouth on the subject, he seems to make things worse, or further demonstrate his ridiculous, embarrassing levels of ignorance on the topic — such as endorsing the EU’s approach to platform regulation (something that Twitter has been fighting back against, because of its negative impact on speech).
The latest is that Musk continued his trend of speaking nonsense at a Financial Times conference, where he said that he would reinstate Donald Trump’s account.
“I do think it was not correct to ban Donald Trump, I think that was a mistake, because it alienated a large part of the country, and did not ultimately result in Donald Trump not having a voice,” Mr. Musk said at a Financial Times conference on Tuesday.
If you’re into that sort of punishment, you can watch the whole thing here. I just warn you that it’s an hour and twenty minutes of your life that you will never, ever get back.
Now, there are plenty of principled reasons to argue for why Trump should be reinstated to the platform. And there are plenty of principled reasons to argue for why he should be kept off of it. When the ban first happened, I wrote a long piece analyzing the decision, noting that it’s not, in any way, an easy call, but there are reasons you can argue both sides.
Later in the talk, Musk basically clarifies his point, repeating something he’s said before, that he basically does not like permanent “bans” but does support other forms of moderation, including deleting content or making it “invisible.” And, again, there is an argument for that as well — in fact, Jack Dorsey has said he has agreed, though in slightly different framing, noting that getting to the point that the company felt Trump needed to be banned represented a failure for Twitter, and reiterating why Twitter should be an implementation of a social media protocol, rather than a centralized hub. And, also, similarly, Facebook’s own Oversight Board questioned the permanent nature of the ban on that platform, and Facebook responded by saying that the ban would be reviewed every two years (though, I’m realizing that two years passed earlier this year, and I don’t recall any commentary on that…).
So, again, there is some level of reasoning behind moving away from bans. But, Musk’s position again appears to be not based on any principled argument, or understanding of what actually happened, but just random thoughts firing through his head. He continues to (falsely) claim that Twitter’s moderation is biased in favor of “leftists” (evidence points in the other direction, but details, details…). The fact that he says the banning of Trump “alienated a large part of the country” leaves out the fact that Trump himself alienated a large part of the country, and returning him to Twitter would do the same. But, oddly, Musk doesn’t seem to care about alienating those people.
His other point, that it “did not ultimately result in Donald Trump not having a voice” is just… weird? No one ever argued that Twitter removed Trump to stop him from “having a voice.” Indeed, part of the argument many of us made that one reason why it’s not so bad that he was removed was because he still had the ability to speak out in lots of other places including (these days) on his own Twitter-wannabe. All the removal was doing was saying that Twitter did not want him directly using their site to cause more havoc.
Even more ridiculous though, is that Musk then went on to talk about, hell, let’s call it, his content moderation “philosophy.”
“If there are tweets that are wrong and bad, those should be either deleted or made invisible, and a suspension, a temporary suspension is appropriate but not a permanent ban.”
Wrong and bad, huh. I am reminded of what Facebook’s earliest content moderators said was the initial policy at that company, when it was all much smaller: “does this make us feel icky?” But they learned, almost immediately that such a setup does not scale, not even slightly.
It’s also just inherently and obviously ridiculous. “Wrong” and “bad” are just fundamentally subjective terms. Again, this is a point that we’ve raised before: lots of social media companies start off with this kind of simplistic view of content moderation. They say they want free speech to be the touchstone, and that they will only have to push back on the most extreme cases. But what they (and Elon) don’t seem to grasp is that there are way more challenging cases than you can predict, and there is no easy standard that you can set up for “wrong” or “bad.”
Then, as you’re (in theory) trying to scale, you realize that you need to set policies with standards for what constitutes “wrong” and “bad.” It can’t be left up to Elon to decide every one. And from there you quickly learn that for every policy you write, you’ll quickly find way more “edge” cases than you can imagine. And, on top of that, you’ll find that if you have ten different people comparing the edge case to the policy, you may get ten different answers of how to apply it.
And, again, this is actually one thing that Twitter has spent years thinking about: how do you operationalize a set of policies and a set of enforcements to make them as consistent and as reasonable as possible. And you can’t just simply look at it say “bad stuff goes, good stuff stays” because that’s just nonsense and not any way to set up an actual policy.
If he wants to bring back Trump, that’s certainly his call. Trump has claimed he wouldn’t come back, even if Elon lets him back on, but then again, he’s technically still suing Twitter to force the company to let him back on (the judge just dismissed the case, but has left it open for Trump to file an amended complaint, so the case is not yet officially closed).
But Musk is being ridiculously unfair to pretend (as a bunch of Trumpist propagandists have for years) that the decision to ban Trump was because of some “leftist ideology” and an attempt to silence his voice. It was the culmination of a very long series of events, including multiple other types of interventions, including trying to fact check his false claims and limit the spread of them (things you’d think that Musk would appreciate), but which failed to stop Trump from seeking to use the platform to egg on violence that was part of an effort to overturn the results of a free and fair election.
That Musk keeps insisting that democratic values are so important (saying elsewhere that he’d want to follow speech laws, since they represent the will of the people), you’d think he’d recognize that efforts to overturn an election might, well, raise some questions. It did for the people inside Twitter, who thought deeply about it and argued back and forth how to handle this. And that discussion and debate was a lot more serious and deserves more credit than Musk gives it.
At this point, though, it’s clear that Musk’s view of the world is simplistic and child-like. And that seems unlikely to change. Given how we’ve seen this play out on other websites, I don’t imagine it will be good for long term business, but it’s not my billions on the line.
Filed Under: bans, content moderation, content policy, donald trump, elon musk
Companies: twitter
Comments on “Elon Musk Has Got Content Moderation All Figured Out: Delete The “Wrong” And “Bad” Content, But Leave The Rest (And Reinstate Trump)”
Egg on a lot of faces
“If there are tweets that are wrong and bad, those should be either deleted or made invisible, and a suspension, a temporary suspension is appropriate but not a permanent ban.”
Well holy crap, how come no-one thought of that before? All you need to do is get rid of the bad tweets and leave the good ones up. With this sort of brilliance on display no wonder so many people are enamored by Musk and think he’s brilliant, who could have ever thought of something that revolutionary but him?
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IRC and Usenet: HAVE YOU ACTUALLY FUCKING USED US, LET ALONE MODERATED ON THESE SERVICES?
Money may buy happiness, but it sure as shit can’t make you smart.
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But it can buy you a lot of people telling you how awesome and smart you are… until the money runs out.
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From some of the thinks I’ve heard about Musk I suspect he lacks wisdom (ability to make good decisions) rather that intelligence (general problem solving skills).
Right. Becuz putting a rocket surgeon in charge of social media moderation will make social media work more like… Um… A rocket?
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Only if you want to put a datacenter on the moon.
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Shush, you. We don’t want to give Musk any bad ideas on top of what he comes up with on his own.
Re: Re: Re: Hilarious
Almost made me choke on my breakfast. Nice comment, thank you.
So, Elon’s saying he’s solved the traveling salesman problem and proven P = NP?
what is good or bad depends on who is the moderator , is the mod religious, liberal, what country ,state are you living , what race you are, eg the confederate flag is seen as a hate symbol by some people, the context, what country the tweet is displayed in,
many tweets that trump made would be labelled as racist content in eu countrys. twitter is a global service, people posting pro lgbt content have been arrested in russia.saying what is good or bad means nothing considering laws about free speech vary from country to country . even in america it may be illegal
in some states in the future giving women info as to how to get acess to an abortion or raising money to enable women to travel for medical procedures .
What Musk is clearly too inane to realise is that if he re-instates Trump’s Twitter account, wrong and bad content on the platform are assured. (-_Q)
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Well, unless that sort of content is what he’s looking for and/or considers perfectly acceptable anyway…
Re: If he reinstates Trump
the average IQ of twitter will drop 90%.
Re: Re: Not quite as much as that.
The smartest people have already left in light of the news about Musk buying Twitter.
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Relax
Listen, easy fix. STOP USING IT IF YOU DON’T LIKE IT!! When you pay 44 BILLION for something, you can put in your 2 cents. Stop whining and don’t use it if you don’t like it.
Re: Hmm, no
I have the right to smash my hand with a hammer but I’d be disappointed if someone didn’t call me an idiot should I exercise that right because I would have absolutely earned that response.
The right to do something does not include the right to be free from people telling you you’re doing it wrong or you’re a fool for doing it.
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“STOP USING IT IF YOU DON’T LIKE IT!” the ignoramus yelled at a disparate group of people, not all of whom have Twitter accounts. Just sayin’.
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This isn’t about whether or not I like what Musk plans on doing with Twitter; frankly, I don’t really know what he will actually do given the chance, and I don’t think even he really has a plan in place.
This is about calling an idiot an idiot and pointing out how he’s clearly getting in way over his head here.
Honestly, the only concrete plan he has stated that he hasn’t contradicted is the reversal of the permanent ban on Trump, so there really isn’t enough for me to form an opinion on his essentially unknown plans for the platform. There is plenty of information to say that he is likely too incompetent to be in charge of a large social media platform, though.
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So how about we banned Joe Biden as well and don’t let him talk since he’s a complete embarrassment it doesn’t know what he’s saying half of the time. Would you be OK with that too? I mean if it’s good enough for Trump it should be good enough for Biden right?
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Projection, thy name is billy
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Except that Biden didn’t incite an attempted insurrection. Trump did. Hence the ban.
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Except that Twitter banned Trump for what he said, not for what it led up to. According to billyfromcali, that is. 😉
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I’ll just leave this here as a rebuttal:
Part of a campaign speech given by Donald Trump in July 2015
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I mean if it’s good enough for Trump it should be good enough for Biden right?
He’s never needed two hands to hold a glass of water.
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Complete embarrasment, my ass. Everything you assclowns accuse him of has been done by the orange idiot in triplicate – at least.
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While that is an accurate description of Trump, I don’t recall either of those things being among the stated reasons for Trump’s Twitter ban. It was more along the lines of promoting hate and/or violence and trying to interfere with the election process, among other things. “Being a complete idiot” and “not knowing what he’s saying half the time” were not. As such, even accepting as true (for the sake of argument) that Biden does, in fact, fit that description at least as well as Trump (which I disagree with), I fail to see how that would make it “fair” to ban Biden for that reason alone.
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Wait, you bought Techdirt for 44 billion? It seems like I would have heard about that.
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Ban Him Or Else
Perhaps the clearest admission so far that leftists are the ones most intolerant of speech with which they disagree.
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Um. No. It means that people who aren’t deranged, cultists, recognize that a cult leader who threatens and encourages violence in his name, including in seeking to overturn the results of an election… might not deserve to get free space to push for more such activity.
It’s got nothing to do with which side of the made up political spectrum you think you fall on.
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Re: Re: Ban Him Or Else
NOW we’re getting somewhere. Finally, we can enter the discussion of how twitter was making decisions based on their political bias, and not on platform rules violations.
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Uh… are you saying that
is a political position? Cause that’s what it looks like you’re saying when you claim that we can
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Re: Re: Re:2 Re:
Yes. No violence was ever threatened, certainly not on the platform. Detractors have never been able to point to such, and I’m confident that the corporate media would have shouted it from the heavens had it actually occurred. There has been a congressional investigation for over the past 12 months, desperately searching for something to charge him with, and have been completely unsuccessful with public comments such that they are now attempting a deep dumpster dive through
private records to find some straws to clutch.
You are stuck in “everyone I disagree with is violent and racist” mode. It’s totally political.
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Trump knew full well that when he called 2,000-2,500 of his followers who were angry over the election result to the US Capitol, talk of ‘peaceful protest’ was like throwing a cupful of saline into the ocean. In addition, he was actually quite pleased about the riot he incited.
Source: https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2022/01/donald-trump-stephanie-grisham-january-6
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We’ve already had that discussion. You just didn’t understand it.
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We’ve already had that discussion. You just chose not to understand it.
FTFY. YW. 😉
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So, their rules include an any reason clause, which would cover political bias if it exists.
Political bias colors you decisions, and everybody else’s, so it is unavoidable.
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Except that Twitter can point to other ToS that were violated. The ‘any reason’ clause is only there in case a user gets an unfair ban due to bug or the ban results from a maderator error. What part of that are you refusing to understand?
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speech with which they disagree.
Translation: I’m an asshole, and no one wants to talk to me because of it.
When the lawsuits start flying from nations and wronged individuals, he’ll get a clue.
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Maybe, maybe not, anyone know his track record on being able to admit to being wrong?
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I didn’t know he had one. I thought that admitting to being wrong is something to which Trump is philosophically opposed. ;D
“Elon” and “Musk” are synonymous with “wrong” and “bad.”
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Yeah, right. You are smarter than everyone, even Musk. Do you even hear hour ridiculous you sound?
Probably not.
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I wouldn’t need to be smarter or more knowledgeable than a brain surgeon to point out that trying to scratch your hand with a hammer strike is a stupid idea should they be boneheaded enough to propose it.
Not sure if this counts as “wrong” or “bad”, but fuck Elon Musk.
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What we have at Twitter now is a Leftist Bubble filled with hate and lies. But so long as they agree with it all, it’s OK.
Trump broke no rules or LAWS and yet banned for LIFE. Why? Because the leftists hate him. Now we have Biden and look at our Ecomomy.
Trump did nothing wrong to be banned for LIFE> The excuse for i t was a big fat LIE. The simple fact is, over 90% of the people working at Twitter are donating to the Democrat party. You have leftist on Twitter threating the Sukpream COurt Judges and yet are not getting Booted from Twitter. That is a direct violation of the rules and yet is just fine because THEY agree with it.
Twitter has become a leftist eco chamber. They flat out booted a long list of conservative people for LIFE over nothing. SSome of them now have magically been able to log back into their Twitter accounts. That seems pretty strange. It’s also really strange how the numbers of followest for Leftest people h ave taken a huge hit while on the right, they’ve shot up overnight. That is impossible unless something is being changed over at Twitter. They are all big fat liars!!!
Just like this sight which really has a leftist agenda and lies all the time also. Then they ban people just like twitter. That way all people ever see is their leftist views. Their lies, lies, lies.
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What is “things only an ignorant fool would say?”
Twitter has bent over backwards to keep all sorts of people on the platform even when they break the rules, in the interest of appeasing absolute nut cases. And they pull down speech all the time of “leftists.” Like, literally one of the biggest complaints about the moderation is how it unfairly penalizes marginalized people. But you don’t know that because you probably don’t know any such people.
This is just false.
That doesn’t matter. Twitter is a private company and can enforce it’s own rules.
I mean, if you only knew how hard Twitter’s management argued not to ban him, only to eventually be convinced otherwise, not because of “hate” but because they didn’t want to be seen as the leading reason why political violence broke out.
Of course, given the rest of your comment, you seem like the sort of person who would be right up there seeking to use political violence to support your cult leader.
And I bet you claim you’re a “free thinker” as you repeat all the made up talking points your leaders feed you.
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Like, literally one of the biggest complaints about the moderation is how it unfairly penalizes marginalized people.
Same problem with TikTok. They’d rather pull videos of people who may be targeted than deal with the behaviour of the yobbos targeting them, because they think that silencing the voices of marginalised people is a good moderation policy.
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https://www.techdirt.com/user/jbdragon/
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He broke Twitter’s rules repeatedly, and got away with far more than anyone else would. Only an idiot would claim otherwise. And laws have nothing to do with it, even when capitalized.
Oh cool, you’re one of those ignoramuses that think the president has full control of the economy. Can you share with us a comprehensive list of the things Biden could do alone that would magically fix everything to your satisfaction?
Facts come with evidence.
Who? All this noise and you can’t even write a name? Or spellcheck?
The rest of your comment just sounds like increasingly unhinged mental diarrhoea.
That wouldn’t be the first lie he’s told.
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No. It’d be his 30,574th, if my count’s right.
“Nothing is impossible for the man who doesn’t have to do it himself.”
Musk is the man who doesn’t have to do it himself.
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He’s even employed someone solely for the task of scratching his arse so he doesn’t have to do it himself. }:)
This needs a name
I’m declaring this algorithm to be “Musk’s Demon”.
Like Maxwell’s Demon, it’s a filter. Maxwell’s demon blocks slow molecules and admits fast ones. Musk’s Demon stops all the wrong and bad input, allowing only the right and good to pass, resulting in a Wonderful and Fair Experience for All.
I don’t mind Mr. Musk loosening some policies and making the decision that a particular set of trade-offs is worth it to defend the flow of more speech / expression.
If he made an argument about alternatives to moderation, which allows more speech to stay up, that’d be cool too.
But, I’m very worried about arguments which boil down to “remove the bad content and keep up the good”.
We could squabble for years over whether a decision is right or wrong (and is it right to hand out a life sentence, even if someone’s speech was wrong?), especially if we look past our knee-jerk reactions to any particular bit of content.
If he comes up with a solid set of principles, or a document articulating his vision for the platform (and a general outline of policies he’s thought out), we could pop that open and spend time thinking about that.
If he says he wants to go back to pre-2017 / 2018 Twitter, then there’s a debate which could be had about that, and how it relates to here and now.
But, once you get into U.K. / E.U. type magical thinking. Make the bad things go away. Keep the good things. That’s just a recipe for disaster.
It always means censoring speech. Just speech we pretend doesn’t exist for the purpose of making that trade-off. It isn’t even that we weigh the interests. It is that we pretend there isn’t even a problem there in the first place. Erasure.
Obviously, Musk doesn’t want to come off as a bearer of bad news, that some things might be censored. However, by bucking this question, all it does is create a whole lot more uncertainty, than if he was upfront about what he wanted to do.
I’m not a big fan of uncertainty (or platforms which lean too heavily on secret procedures to stop someone gaming the system).
Like, on YouTube, there are swear words you’re not supposed to use, otherwise your channel will be demonetized. They don’t tell you about it, and you rely a bit on hearsay to figure out what you are allowed to do.
Sometimes even, someone misses something, because of cultural differences. Sometimes, a common word in another language gets flagged as a foul word.
There is gaming the system. And then, there’s not having a clue what you’re allowed to do.
But then, I imagine there are those sorts of people who creep up to the edge of the rules, and try to be “clever”. That is a very valid concern a platform might have.
Facebook
No, they questioned the indefinite nature of it.
“However, it was not appropriate for Facebook to impose the indeterminate and standardless penalty of indefinite suspension. Facebook’s normal penalties include removing the violating content, imposing a time-bound period of suspension, or permanently disabling the page and account.”
That was June 2021, are you writing this from the future? Kind of burying the lead, don’t you think?!
"leftists"
Elon Musk is a technocrat, and has an engineering degree. He should know better than to posit quantities without definition. And “leftist” is one of those terms that are bandied about without any definition, except that it is universally regarded as “bad”, “wrong”, etc. I’ve just finished reading a biography of Rosa Luxemberg, a European Socialist from the time leading up to the First World War. She was heavily in favor of free speech, elections, wage agreements, etc., the sort of thing it took another World War to become regular practice in Europe. I should perhaps point out that at that time, the regular practice was for major companies to murder any worker exercising any free speech and breaking up demonstrations by aggrieved workers with force. Oh, and child labor was a regular thing, while public education of children and adults wasn’t. Public education was a plank of the Communist Manifesto long before it became recognized as a human right.
Elon Musk is attempting to divide by zero; it’s embarrassing to watch.
he’s showing just exactly how much of a c**t he really is!
Grandma
Maybe Elon could hire a bunch of Grandmothers?
The best arbiter of “wrong” and “bad” is my Grandma, but I think she already has a job with the Butterball Turkey Talk Line.
Product Planning
Elon to Engineer: “I want a car that doesn’t use gas”
Engineer: “Here you go, but there are potential problems, it could catch fire during a crash and be hard to put out”
Elon to Engineer: ” I don’t care, give me my car!”
— some time passes —
Press: “This elonmobile caught fire and couldn’t be extinguished for days”
Elon to Engineer: “Why didn’t you tell me it could do that!”
Engineer: “I did”
Elon to Engineer: “Not loudly enough! You’ve made me look stupid you paedo!”
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Musk
All I see here is Lefties and Haters with absolutely nothing intelligent to say. Musk is This Musk is That , How many of you basement Dwellers are Multi Billionaires ? The man has more smarts in his left pinkie than any of you will ever have in a lifetime. Its nice to see how utterly ignorant people have become and its great to hear thier opinions. Now only if we could hear from conservatives that would be great. Oh wait a minute, isnt that what Musk is Doing ? Signed : Shadow banned in Canada.
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‘He’s rich therefore he’s right’, ah the modern version of ‘might makes right’.
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Because being shadow banned is so much fun. People are clueless about free speech.
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You’ll find one such person in your nearest mirror.
Elon Musk, starring in xkcd:
Duty calls