Judge Is Not At All Impressed By Trump’s Lawsuit Against Twitter; Dismisses It Easily

from the judge-to-trump:-this-is-not-how-any-of-this-works dept

As you probably recall, former President Donald Trump sued various social media companies for kicking him off their platforms, claiming (absolutely ridiculously) that private companies deplatforming the President of the United States violated his 1st Amendment rights, and claiming that Section 230 was unconstitutional. As we noted at the time, this is not how any of this works. The lawsuits have not gone very well. While they were filed in Florida, they were quickly transferred to the proper venue in California, and now Judge James Donato has tossed out the lawsuit against Twitter, and done so easily — though he does allow Trump to try again with an amended complaint (something that will almost certainly be coming).

Judge Donato wastes little time in pointing out the problems with the claim that Twitter moderation violates anyone’s 1st Amendment rights:

Plaintiffs’ main claim is that defendants have “censor[ed]” plaintiffs’ Twitter accounts in violation of their right to free speech under the First Amendment to the United States Constitution… Plaintiffs are not starting from a position of strength. Twitter is a private company, and “the First Amendment applies only to governmental abridgements of speech, and not to alleged abridgements by private companies.”

You don’t say?

There’s this whole concept of the State Action Doctrine that Trump would need to overcome to make this a 1st Amendment issue, and guess what Trump’s lawyers did not do? Yeah, you guessed it. Because you’re smarter than a Trump lawyer.

Plaintiffs’ only hope of stating a First Amendment claim is to plausibly allege that Twitter was in effect operating as the government under the “state-action doctrine.” This doctrine provides that, in some situations, “governmental authority may dominate an activity to such an extent that its participants must be deemed to act with the authority of the government and, as a result, be subject to constitutional constraints.”… This is not an easy claim to make, for good reasons. Private entities are presumed to act as such, and maintaining the line “between the private sphere and the public sphere, with all its attendant constitutional obligations,” is a matter of great importance, as “[o]ne great object of the Constitution is to permit citizens to structure their private relations as they choose subject only to the constraints of statutory or decisional law.” Edmonson, 500 U.S. at 619. “As a matter of substantive constitutional law the state-action requirement reflects judicial recognition of the fact that ‘most rights secured by the Constitution are protected only against infringement by governments.’” Lugar v. Edmondson Oil Co., Inc., 457 U.S. 922, 936 (1982) (citation omitted). “Careful adherence to the ‘state action’ requirement preserves an area of individual freedom by limiting the reach of federal law and federal judicial power.”

Plaintiffs say that the question of whether they have a First Amendment claim on the basis of the state action doctrine is a factual matter “ill-suited to a Rule 12(b)(6) motion.” …. Not so. It is certainly true that the ultimate determination of state action is a “necessarily fact-bound inquiry,” Lugar, 457 U.S. at 939, but that does not relieve plaintiffs of their obligation under Rule 8 and Rule 12(b)(6) to provide in the complaint enough facts to plausibly allege a claim against Twitter on the basis of state action. See, e.g., Heineke v. Santa Clara Univ., 965 F.3d 1009, 1015 n.5 (9th Cir. 2020) (“Heineke’s contention that it is inappropriate to dismiss his § 1983 constitutional claims at the motion to dismiss stage, is unpersuasive. We have accepted his allegations as true. Because he has failed to plead any allegations sufficient to support his argument that SCU acted under color of state law, however, his § 1983 claims must fail as a matter of law.”). To conclude otherwise, as plaintiffs urge, would fly in the face of the pleading requirements squarely stated in Bell Atlantic Corp. v. Twombly, 550 U.S. 544 (2007), and Ashcroft v. Iqbal, 556 U.S. 662 (2009).

Here we need to break in, because those two cases, Twombly and Iqbal, are now considered pretty well accepted and fairly standard cases regarding what you need to plead in order to actually plead a claim that can survive a motion to dismiss. The two cases together, nicknamed Twiqbal, stand for the idea that you can’t just randomly plead nonsense and promise to bring actual claims down the road. You have to claim actual factual claims that, if true, would be legitimate. Twombly applied this to antitrust law, and then Iqbal applied the same standard broadly across all federal cases.

Since Iqbal in 2009 this has all been widely understood for anyone practicing in federal courts. Except, apparently, Trump’s lawyers. They tried to argue that Twiqbal only applied to antitrust. The judge dismissed that, well, dismissively, in a footnote:

Plaintiffs make the odd assertion that these pleading standards apply only in antitrust conspiracy actions. Dkt. No. 145 at 6 n.7. Twombly and Iqbal expressed no such limitation, and their standards have been applied to a myriad of Rule 12(b)(6) motions in non-antitrust actions in every federal district and circuit court. A scant minute of online research makes this abundantly clear. See, e.g., Mendoza v. Amalgamated Transit Union Int’l, 30 F.4th 879, 886 n.1 (9th Cir. 2022) (labor and employment case); Hoffman v. Preston, 26 F.4th 1059, 1063 (9th Cir. 2022) (Bivens claims)

Ouch.

Anyway, back to the substance. Is this a state action? Well, duh, no.

To start, the amended complaint does not plausibly show that plaintiffs’ ostensible First Amendment injury was caused by “a rule of conduct imposed by the government.” id. at 835 (cleaned up); see also Mathis v. Pacific Gas and Elec. Co., 891 F.2d 1429, 1432 (9th Cir. 1989) (“no state, or federal, action unless” a private entity’s decision is “made on the basis of some rule of decision for which the State is responsible.”) (quotations and citation omitted). The amended complaint merely offers a grab-bag of allegations to the effect that some Democratic members of Congress wanted Mr. Trump, and “the views he espoused,” to be banned from Twitter because such “content and views” were “contrary to those legislators’ preferred points of view.” See, e.g., AC ¶¶ 53, 55, 60, 61. But the comments of a handful of elected officials are a far cry from a “rule of decision for which the State is responsible.” Legislators are perfectly free to express opinions without being deemed the official voice of “the State.” Government in our republic of elected representatives would be impossible otherwise. It is also not plausible to conclude that Twitter or any other listener could discern a clear state rule in such remarks, or even determine what a legislator’s “preferred views” might be.

The weakness of the state action theory in the amended complaint is further demonstrated by plaintiffs’ own explanation of why their accounts were closed. Twitter is said to have closed Mr. Trump’s account because of “the risk of further incitement of violence” and “threats to physical safety.” Id. ¶¶ 114-15. Twitter closed plaintiff Cuadros’s account “due to a post about vaccines,” id. ¶ 124, and Dr. Wolf’s account for “vaccine misinformation,” id. ¶ 162. Plaintiff Barboza’s account was closed “after retweeting President Trump and other conservatives on January 6, 2021,” id. ¶ 137; plaintiff Latella after he “post[ed] positive messages about Republican candidates and President Trump,” id. ¶ 142; and plaintiff Root for “messages he posted related to COVID-19 and the 2020 election results,” id. ¶ 152.

If anything, these explanations indicate that Twitter acted in response to factors specific to each account, and not pursuant to a state rule of decision. These circumstances are not at all comparable to those in Bantam Books, Inc. v. Sullivan, 372 U.S. 58 (1963), as plaintiffs urge. In that case, which is discussed infra in more detail, a state commission was empowered to compel a private book distributor from selling or supplying certain books. The amended complaint does not allege anything like this type of state dictate to Twitter.

Also, the ruling notes that just because some legislators were whining about social media moderation choices, that does not magically turn those websites into state actors:

Paragraph 55 is said to offer “examples of Democrat legislators threatening new regulations, antitrust breakup, and removal of Section 230 immunity for Defendants and other social media platforms if Twitter did not censor views and content with which these Members of Congress disagreed.” … The actual quotes do not live up to that billing. The statements attributed to “Bruce Reed, Biden’s Top Tech Advisor,” and Michelle Obama are of no moment because Reed and Obama were not legislators…. Other statements in Paragraph 55 pertain only to Facebook, and not Twitter. … (Senator Markey’s question and Mark Zuckerberg’s answer regarding Facebook’s algorithms and policies; Rep. Adam Schiff’s Tweet that “Facebook must ban” Trump). Then-Senator Kamala Harris is quoted three times for calling for “Trump’s Twitter account [to be] suspended” and calling on Dorsey to “do something about this Tweet” from Trump, but conspicuously missing is any threatening remark directed to Twitter….

Also, randomly complaining about Section 230 does not change things either:

Five statements are nothing more than general comments about Section 230 (e.g., “We can and should have a conversation about Section 230”) untethered to any substance that might have conveyed any threat or punishment tied to any specific action by Twitter

The judge then distinguishes the various cases where state action was found, noting that in all of those, the connection to the state, and the clear threats, are much more obvious.

These cases, which are the centerpieces of plaintiffs’ state action argument, are strikingly different from the allegations in the amended complaint. In each of the cases, a concrete and specific government action, or threatened action, was identified. Here, plaintiffs offer only ambiguous and open-ended statements to the effect that “we may legislate” something unfavorable to Twitter or the social media sector. This is a world away from: (1) a state commission sending local police officers for drop-in visits and threatening prosecution by the state attorney general (Bantam Books); (2) a city mayor and police superintendent threatening law enforcement action to crack down on sit-in demonstrations (Lombard); (3) a deputy county attorney threatening prosecution against a private company under a specific law (Carlin); and (4) a federal administrative commission threatening the suspension of licenses or formal rulemaking if its specified elements for an anti-drug program were not followed voluntarily (Mathis).

Then there’s the part about Section 230. That takes all of two paragraphs to dismiss and only one actually matters (the first one just discusses the nature of the claim about 230 supposedly being unconstitutional):

To establish an injury in fact, a plaintiff must show that he or she suffered “an invasion of a legally protected interest which is (a) concrete and particularized, and (b) actual or imminent, not conjectural or hypothetical.” Lujan, 504 U.S. at 560 (cleaned up). These facts are entirely absent from the amended complaint with respect to Section 230. Plaintiffs offer only the vague and speculative allegation that “[u]pon information and belief, defendants would not have deplatformed the plaintiff or similarly situated putative class members but for the immunity purportedly offered by Section 230(c).”… Why this might be plausible is left unsaid. The Court declines to accept such speculative and conclusory allegations as grounds for a declaratory judgment claim.

Florida’s Deceptive and Unfair Trade Practices claim also doesn’t do well at all. Twitter’s terms say they can remove you for any reason at all, so there’s nothing deceptive going on here:

A good argument can be made that plaintiffs did not plausibly allege deceptive conduct by Twitter for purposes of either the FDUTPA or the UCL. The TOS expressly states that Twitter may suspend or terminate an account “at any time for any or no reason.” … It also states that Twitter may remove or refuse to distribute any content…. There is nothing cagey or misleading about these provisions, and plaintiffs’ suggestion that Twitter may have applied them inconsistently,…, or at the government’s behest, does not change that. The TOS gave Twitter contractual permission to act as it saw fit with respect to any account or content for any or no reason, which makes its ostensible motives irrelevant for a deceptive practices claim.

Trump also tried to use Florida’s already-declared unconstitutional social media law, and, well, you know how that went. It also fails because only one plaintiff was actually a Florida resident, and the Twitter actions all took place before that law would have come into effect anyway (and, oh yeah, the court blocked it from coming into effect, because it’s unconstitutional):

An initial problem for plaintiffs is that only one named plaintiff (Dominick Latella) was a Florida resident with any active Twitter account at the time the statute took effect on July 1, 2021, … and so he is the only plaintiff who might conceivably have a SSMCA claim. See Fla. Stat. § 501.2041(1)(h) (“user” is “a person who resides or is domiciled in [Florida] and who has an account on a social media platform.”). The amended complaint alleges that all of the other plaintiffs were domiciled outside of Florida, or had their Twitter accounts closed prior to July 1, 2021.

Another problem is that plaintiffs say they are challenging only conduct that occurred after the SSMCA effective date…. But the amended complaint focuses on actions affecting plaintiffs’ accounts prior to July 1, 2021. … Consequently, it is unclear what plaintiffs allege to be the potential application of the statute to their case.

There is also a major concern about the enforceability of the SSMCA. Florida government officials were enjoined from enforcing the SSMCA on June 30, 2021, the day before the law was to take effect, in a well-reasoned decision issued by the Northern District of Florida. NetChoice, LLC v. Moody, 546 F. Supp. 3d 1082 (N.D. Fla. 2021), appeal pending sub nom, NetChoice LLC v. Attorney Gen., State of Fla., No. 21-12355 (11th Cir.). The court concluded that the statute violated the First Amendment and was preempted by 47 U.S.C. § 230; it also expressed strong concerns that the statute was impermissibly vague. The Court declines plaintiffs’ invitation to disregard this decision, particularly while an appeal is pending, and dismisses the SSMCA claim without prejudice.

Still, the judge allows Trump and the other plaintiffs a chance to amend the complaint, but makes it pretty clear he doesn’t find it likely that they’ll get past any of these hurdles.

All in all this is a nice clean win, exactly as expected. I look forward to the trolls in our comments who were so sure the original case was a winner rationalizing away this ruling, and how the amended complaint or the appeal will magically make this case a winner rather than the obviously frivolous lawsuit it has been from the second it was filed.

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Comments on “Judge Is Not At All Impressed By Trump’s Lawsuit Against Twitter; Dismisses It Easily”

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109 Comments
BeatrixWillius (profile) says:

Lawyers

Does Frump stiff all his lawyers? Are they all bottom feeders? Don’t lawyers talk to each other? Is being a Frump lawyer something to brag about or something to be embarrassed about?

Tanner Andrews (profile) says:

Re:

Is being a Frump lawyer something to brag about or something to be embarrassed about?

Ask Rudy Giuliani.

Alternative form: is being a Giuliani client something to brag about or something to be embarrassed about?

And, for inquiring minds, s/Giuliani/Sidney Powell/

Finally, yes, preview is still broken.

bhull242 (profile) says:

Re: Re:

In what way is preview broken? What precisely is wrong with it? Also, what OS and browser are you using?

I haven’t noticed any issue with the preview function myself, but if you’re having problems, you should be clearer on the nature of the problem to make it easier for them to troubleshoot. “Preview is still broken,” doesn’t convey much useful information that could be used to help locate and fix the bug causing the problem.

Tanner Andrews (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re: what is broken with preview

Preview is still broken, in that it does nothing, on linux using firefox 78.4.0 esr (64-bit), no javascript. It used to work on old site with same web browser, and stopped working with the move to the new site.

We can probably disregard javascript because requiring javascript would be a sign of moral or technical failure not expected here except for a few trolls of whom we all think little. It may be that new site has only been tested on windows or BSD and so no one else has noticed that preview was broken.

Lostinlodos (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:2

I’ll have to fire up a VM to test this later. But I believe preview is done in live space now. Maybe memory access settings?
Web development is not really my forte though, So I’m just blind testing.

I do note your Firefox is a bit outdated. 91.x is the current LTS.

Tanner Andrews (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:3 old firefox

Sure, it is an ``older” firefox. But it had been working, until the site changed. No change here, leading to the conclusion that the place where the change occurred is the place where the breakage happened.

Running without javascript is either old-fashioned or security conscious, take your pick. At any rate there is no excuse for needing javascript to do a preview, as proved by the old site.

Naughty Autie says:

Trump: “But Twitter operates on the Internet, which was created by the US Military, itself a part of the US Government.”

Yeah. Keep trolling, Trump. Judge Donato should have thrown this out with prejudice. I just don’t see how a First Amendment complaint against Twitter can stand even if amended.

This comment has been deemed funny by the community.
Bobvious says:

Re: Amendment one the Beautiful

Oh beautiful schadenfreude,
such self-inflicted pain
For painful legal travesties
we suffer once again
Amendment one! Amendment one!
You’re back again I see
to curse the legal brotherhood
From sea to shining sea!

Anonymous Coward says:

The TOS gave Twitter contractual permission to act as it saw fit with respect to any account or content for any or no reason, which makes its ostensible motives irrelevant for a deceptive practices claim.

Just saying…

Naughty Autie says:

Re:

The TOS gave Twitter contractual permission to act as it saw fit with respect to any account or content for any or no reason, which makes its ostensible motives irrelevant for a deceptive practices claim.
However, this matters not in the case at hand because Twitter can point to the terms in the ToS that each of the plaintiffs violated, resulting in their bans from the platform.

Just sayin’.

Pixelation says:

Has Trump won a lawsuit in the last 5 years? What is the record now, 0-58? When the Judiciary is stacked with Conservative/Republican judges and he can’t win a lawsuit, that shows you something. And still, plenty of idiots believe whatever he says.

James Burkhardt but signing in every time takes too long says:

Re:

He’s won several. The ill-advised defamation case against Stormy Daniels, for instance.

James Burkhardt but signing in every time takes too long says:

Re: Re:

or i suppose, trump won stormy daniel’s ill advised defamation case against him.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re:

There were three lawsuits brought by Stormy Daniels. She won the first (later dismissed), lost the second, and the third was settled.

Anonymous Coward says:

I look forward to the trolls in our comments who were so sure the original case was a winner rationalizing away this ruling

I just wish they’d forward their spectacular analysis and advice to Trump’s lawyers, who need it more than we do.

That One Guy (profile) says:

Help help I'm being oppressed!

The two cases together, nicknamed Twiqbal, stand for the idea that you can’t just randomly plead nonsense and promise to bring actual claims down the road.

That’s conservative persecution that is, that’s Trump and his cultists’ primary trick so clearly this a lib judge who just has it out for him and that’s why they laughed the lawsuit out of court!

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This comment has been deemed insightful by the community.
Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re:

I see “woke” now means “adhering to legal precedents instead of letting conservative feelings rule the day”.

Mike Masnick (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:

Pretty sure that’s a fake Hyman Rosen, not the actual one. And if you’re someone posting as fake versions of the various trollish commenters here, please stop.

This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it.

bhull242 (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:3

Thank you for the confirmation. Regardless of our disagreements, I don’t appreciate people pretending to be you saying things you (I assume) don’t actually believe. Indeed, in this case, what was said was inconsistent with things you have said previously.

Here at Techdirt, we commenters recognize our frequent trolls and opponents and make an effort to attack the ideas they have actually claimed.

David says:

Re: Re: Re:

“woke” is just the in-sentence spelling of “Waaaaaah!”. So “The woke court ruled…” is the same as “Waaaaaah, the court ruled…”

Bring out the pacifiers.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re:

Conservative judges are now woke, I see.

Guess “woke” is just another way of saying “isn’t ideologically on my side”.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re:

No, you’re thinking of davec. And he prefers the term “activist judge”. Keep that in mind for next time.

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Hyman Rosen (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:2 Trademarks

Despite Techdirt frequently railing against companies trying to enforce their trademarks against things that they perceive to be infringing that Techdirt doesn’t, we see here why trademark is the one piece of “intellectual property” that really is necessary. Impersonation spoils both commerce and discourse while contributing nothing of value. Even as a free speech absolutist, I would not object to banning people for impersonating others. Impersonators are not so much speaking as using their speech to shout down others, by trying to confuse listeners or bury the speech of the person being impersonated in a sea of obfuscation.

Naughty Autie says:

Re: Re: Re:3

Impersonators are not so much speaking as using their speech to shout down others, by trying to confuse listeners or bury the speech of the person being impersonated in a sea of obfuscation.

Proving the old adage that the best solution to bad speech is more speech, no?

Lostinlodos (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:5 Wrong

Here I have no choice but to loudly disagree.
Noise is a cornerstone to heavy metal and all extreme sub genres that follow.
From Manowar who was and remains “louder than hell”. A legit title they never lost: loudest band ever.
To Darkhorse who’s blast beat electronic synth-wave kicked off dark wave and black wave.
Death: who’s b-side Blackness on the demo was nothing but a single word and a 4 minute long reverb of a chord.
Torch, who kicked off second wave blackmetal despite never releasing an actual album. (Not surprising since they all killed themselves following mailing the demo tape).
Mayhem. Who’s noise metal coupled with brutal stage shows that male DethKlok look tame created a panic even before they started torching indoctrination, er, churches.

Atmospheric black metal, noise metal, black core, drone doom, deathwave, shoegaze, funkafuch,
Punk? Anyone? GGA?
Hell, the Beatles played with noise

Noise is definitely speech!

bhull242 (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:5

Noise is still speech in many contexts. Impersonation is speech even though it’s not always “valuable” speech or even protected speech. Anything spoken, signed, sung, written, or drawn and virtually anything done with the intent to convey a message is speech, and that includes speaking with the intent to drown out or silence other speech as well as unprotected speech (like knowingly and provably false and defamatory statements of fact, copyright infringement that doesn’t fall under fair use, or speech intended and likely to incite imminent lawless action). Whether or not that speech is or should be allowed or protected doesn’t change the fact that it is, in fact, speech.

If you’re trying to rationalize taking a stance that moderation involving banning impersonators with your usual “free speech absolutist” position (as you call it), you don’t really need to. Most so-called “absolutists” often have some exceptions to their “absolute” rules, and you already explicitly stated that this is an exception to your usual stance on moderation. Trying to say that it’s not an exception because it’s not speech is both ridiculous and unnecessary.

Hyman Rosen (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:6

Sure, but expanding the definition to include everything loses most of the utility of the word.

The essence of free speech is that no one is prevented from presenting their ideas, and listeners get to make up their own minds about which ideas they find valid. Generating noise to drown out some speech or impersonating speakers in order to obfuscate the ideas those speakers are presenting or flooding arenas with things that are off-topic might be forms of speech, but they run counter to that fundamental idea of presenting listeners with a smörgåsbord of ideas from anyone who has something to say.

“Noise is not speech” represents, at least for me, a pithy way of expressing that sentiment.

bhull242 (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:3

Despite Techdirt frequently railing against companies trying to enforce their trademarks against things that they perceive to be infringing that Techdirt doesn’t, […]

Because criticizing a company for overenforcing their trademarks makes sense and in no way constitutes a criticism of the existence of trademarks.

[…] we see here why trademark is the one piece of “intellectual property” that really is necessary.

I really don’t see how that is relevant here, and it’s not something Techdirt generally disagrees with (it is important for consumer protection, for example), but let’s see how you explain this.

Impersonation spoils both commerce and discourse while contributing nothing of value.

Mostly yes, I guess…? I mean, there is value in parody, which may involve some level of impersonation, but I can tentatively agree with that. Not sure why you had to mention trademark to make this point, but whatever.

Even as a free speech absolutist, I would not object to banning people for impersonating others.

Good to know; I can agree that this is often sensible, at least where the impersonation isn’t made deliberately obvious (like with @DevinNunesMom).

Impersonators are not so much speaking as using their speech to shout down others, by trying to confuse listeners or bury the speech of the person being impersonated in a sea of obfuscation.

So long as we exclude obvious parody as I mentioned above, I can agree with this. Again, I’m still confused why you felt the need to bring up trademark or TD’s positions on various companies’ enforcement of trademark, but I think I get the point you’re making.

Hyman Rosen (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:4

The purpose of trademarks is precisely to prevent impersonation, and I am saying that this is a valid restriction on speech. Naturally I exclude parody (remember “South Butt”?).

Stories on Techdirt tend to highlight abusive situations, which leaves the impression that Techdirt opposes the institutions it criticizes. (Has Tim Cushing ever reported anything good about law enforcement, for example?)

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:5

(Has Tim Cushing ever reported anything good about law enforcement, for example?)

Have any good stories bout the police made the news.

Anonymous Coward says:

Surprise, surprise, the Orange Treasonous Innsurectionist NeoNazi hates the First Amendment.

How does getting your lolcase thrown out of court?

Not like you’ll fucking care, because this will only feed your fucking victim complex.

And you won’t stop until the FBI finally arrest you for high treason or worse.

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Anonymous Coward says:

If they get to discovery, they’ll find emails from the White House telling Twitter to de-platform Trump and Twitter responding they would do it within a few hours.

Unfortunately, even if Biden came out himself and told everyone the White House forced Twitter to ban Trump, the left wouldn’t care.

It is what it is.

Mike Masnick (profile) says:

Re:

If they get to discovery

They’re not getting to discovery

they’ll find emails from the White House telling Twitter to de-platform Trump and Twitter responding they would do it within a few hours.

Considering that Trump was… in the White House when this happened, no, they won’t.

Also, I guarantee you that there is no fucking way that Twitter would respond that way to a government request to remove speech, especially given how frequently Twitter actually went to court to push back on government demands starting in the Obama era.

Don’t be so ridiculous.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re:

Considering that Trump was… in the White House when this happened, no, they won’t.

Maths, I know… its hard for some people!

Naughty Autie says:

Re: Re: Re:

Except that Trump was banned from Twitter on the 8th of January last year and left the White House on the 20th. Research, I know… it’s hard for some people!

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:2

What’s your point?

They won’t find emails from the White House to Twitter telling Twitter to de-platform Trump because TRUMP WAS STILL IN THE WHITE HOUSE!!!!!

The insuniation from the OP was that the “Biden” White House urged Twitter to de-platform Trump, which could not have happened because Trump was banned from Twitter before Biden took office! Jan 8 < Jan 20; Maths, see how that works?

Making a point, I know… it’s hard for some people.

Naughty Autie says:

Re: Re: Re:3

Except you were replying to and quoting from Mike, not the OP. Reading comprehension, I know… it’s hard for some people!

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:4

Exactly, I was agreeing with Mike when I quoted him in that the people who think that the Biden White House had something to do with banning Trump from Twitter don’t understand how dates work and can’t do the math that would tell them that Trump was in office when it happened!

How do you not understand this… I’m not talking rocket science here..

Naughty Autie says:

Re: Re: Re:5

When you quote somebody and say something that seems to be arguing with them as you did…

How do you not understand this? It’s not algebra!

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:6

The fact that you saw it as arguing with Mike is a you problem.

It doesn’t seem that anybody made that mistake.

Sorry pal, I guess you just didn’t get it.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:7

The fact that you couldn’t see how your post might be perceived is a you problem.

It doesn’t seem that anybody else made that mistake.

Sorry, pal, I guess your head’s just far up your asshole for you to get it.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:8

Sorry, pal, I guess your head’s just far up your asshole for you to get it.

You mad bro?

Sounds like you need to get laid or something if you get this bent out of shape over a post made by an AC here on Techdirt’s comments.

You should probable talk to somebody about your anger issues, it might help.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:9

Sounds like you need to get laid or something if you get this bent out of shape over a post made by an AC here on Techdirt’s comments.

Ah, the old classic: projection.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:10

Ah, the old classic: projection.

And remind me, who is the AC getting all butt hurt here?

It sure as hell isn’t me!

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:11

If you feel the need to defend yourself against that comment, then you are the one getting all butt hurt. Probably from having your head shoved up there.

bhull242 (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:6

I understand your confusion, but it does appear to be the case that this AC was agreeing with Mike, and while it wasn’t my initial interpretation (which was that the AC thought Mike said something else), upon consideration, I think it is pretty clear in context that the AC was trying to support Mike (even ignoring their later clarifications that that’s the case).

In this case, I think that this was a mistake on your part, even if I can understand why you made that mistake.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:7

…I think it is pretty clear in context that the AC was trying to support Mike…

Said context being provided by later clarifications. Don’t admit to learning only from hindsight, then pick on someone else like they should have known all along like you’re pretending to. Doing so only creates perceptions of you as a bully.

bhull242 (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:8

You misunderstand. First off, I was talking about my interpretation of the comment in question before I read further. I had an initial interpretation, thought that seemed stupid, reread it, and then determined that a different interpretation seemed more sensible. Only then did I continue by reading later comments.

Seriously, when you quoted me, you omitted the part in the same sentence where I stated that you don’t need hindsight:

[…] I think it is pretty clear in context that the AC was trying to support Mike (even ignoring their later clarifications that that’s the case).

(emphasis added) I never once “admitted” that I learned the correct interpretation in hindsight. It may not have been my first impression, but I didn’t need the later clarification to reach it.

More importantly, I started off by agreeing that Naughty Autie’s interpretation was not unreasonable. My point was that the AC’s intended interpretation, while not the only reasonable one, is the one that I, personally, feel made the most sense in that specific context even if it wasn’t the one that I first thought of. I was not trying to pick on anyone, nor was I trying to make it sound like it was obvious that there was only one plausible interpretation; only that, while Naughty Autie’s interpretation was a reasonable one, it was not the only reasonable one, and that it was possible, even absent the later clarification, to correctly determine the intended meaning.

Basically, Naughty Autie made a perfectly reasonable mistake, but it was still a mistake that could have been determined without later clarification, and they should stop wasting time trying to argue the point further.

This comment has been deemed funny by the community.
John85851 (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re: The emails came from the Clinton White House

Don’t you know that the “smoking gun” emails to Twitter came from the Clinton White House as passed through the Obama administration to Joe Biden? See, of course it’s always the Democrats fault!

I’d say that was sarcasm, but I’m sure there are some people who would blame Clinton or Obama if they could.

Wyrm (profile) says:

Re: Re:

But democrats are Satan worshippers. So, after Biden took office, he asked his master to send the email to Twitter back in time so Trump could be banned before Biden took office. Along with brainwashing the Twitter execs so they would ignore their usual behavior of denying such requests.
All to foil Trump’s very-stable-genius plan to keep the White House through his perfect, eloquent and totally-not-calling-for-violence tweets.

Lostinlodos (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:

I believe you mean the demon Lut. Mentioned mostly in ante nicene writings. The master of time.

Satan is a job title, the um, paranormal version of a prosecutor.
there are many Ah’SatAn in religious texts from 800BCE-1700s CE. Different demons, angels, and others, even humans, have held that position in various texts. Only 2 religions have ever made the position a synonym for a specific entity.

Lostinlodos (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:3

Oh? But this is not > But democrats are Satan worshippers. So, after Biden took office, he asked his master to send the email to Twitter back in time so ….

Or are you just upset you learned something new today? 😛

bhull242 (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:4

The point is that the original comment was clearly satire and not meant to be taken as a serious claim that any Democrats actually worship Satan.

But yes, in its original use—including in the Bible—“Satan” was not inherently or typically a single, specific individual; it basically just meant “adversary” or “obstacle” (specifically a person rather than an object or something), and it wasn’t the name of anyone or a proper noun. In Job, specifically, the satan (and yes, it was “the satan”) was an angel whose job was essentially to question God’s plans to make sure God was making the “right” decisions. Another example is an angel sent to obstruct someone from doing something sinful. Nothing about fallen angels or demons or Hell or trying to replace God or anything like that. Heck, this isn’t even exclusive to the Old Testament; much of the New Testament uses “satan” (or a similar term) in much the same way. The whole idea of Satan being a specific being, a name, a fallen angel (or, indeed, the existence of fallen angels in general), etc. was a much later idea.

Lostinlodos (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:5

Mostly correct. I wasn’t calling You out per say, as much as saying shut up to the anonymous chick in shite. The initial reply was a joke.

One minor correction though,

in its original use

The term in Hebrew in the Old Testament actually predates the books’ individual writings by quite a bit. הַשָּׂטָ in the Jewish texts comes from הַשָּׂטָן (found twice in early manuscripts) which was used in the ‘tit(e) tribes predating Jewish influence. But similar use slightly earlier can be found in texts of the Arab Gulf area with slight character variation.
And likely as a position comes from Toth or Seth (African, not Egyptian) who’s earthly rolls were to act as informers before the gods in matters of humans.
That is likely the extension of Tit, or Stit, of Central African origin. Who was basically a narc in modern terms. Though only three writings on Tit have been found. Two partial tablets. and a broken vase alluding to punishment or torture.

Wyrm (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:2

Thanks for the precision. I have so many conspiracies to keep track of that I forget the exact names of the demons involved.

I grant you a Qookie for your help. 🙂

Lostinlodos (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:3

Wasn’t actually trying to pick on you.
It was meant to be funny.

Encyclopædia Demonica (the real one, not the Buffy or Doom one) lists just shy of 800.
A late appendix to Malleus Maleficarum gives us roughly 200 more new ones. But that was probably a sorcerer’s listing. And Aquinas has documented at the least a few thousand.

Lut appears in texts from multiple cultures and may actually be Set as he has some ‘powers’ crossover. The ability to manipulate or change the past is one shared. And theistic Set is still worshiped by some today. His (it’s?) temporal abilities survive in practice even in Jewish and Christian mysticism, and the Dragon temples.

But given how many metaphysical entities have ‘recorded’ powers of time… who knows. I could name 20 without looking it up.

Not that you really care. At all. But if I’m going to be called a troll by a slug too afraid to register for an account… I may as well earn it.

Wyrm (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:4

Stupid Poe’s law.

Wasn’t actually trying to pick on you. It was meant to be funny.

I took it that way, no offense taken.
It just didn’t communicate properly apparently. 🙂

Whoever called you a troll didn’t read the mood properly.

Still, thanks for the additional details. I’m always interested in lore and myths. Makes for great material for RPG sessions.

bhull242 (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:2

If the answer isn’t the point or if the answer is (or should be) obvious to everyone, then it’s a rhetorical question. That the answer in this case is almost certainly “no” doesn’t mean the question isn’t rhetorical.

bhull242 (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:4

Yes, that is what a rhetorical question is: a question asked without an expectation of receiving an answer from someone else. Either the speaker doesn’t expect anyone to be able to answer (so no answer would be expected), the answer is irrelevant to the point being made (and so doesn’t need to be given), or the “correct” answer is so obvious (to the speaker, at least, and usually to the intended audience) that it doesn’t need to be stated explicitly. Why an answer is not expected to be given and, if it exists or is known, what that answer is are irrelevant to determining whether a given question is rhetorical; only that the speaker doesn’t expect anyone to actually give an answer.

I’m honestly not sure why you felt the need to give the definition like that, but it’s entirely consistent with what I said.

This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it.

bhull242 (profile) says:

Re: Re:

To paraphrase a certain someone:

Differently-abled people (including people with brain damage) deserve better than to be lumped in with this a$$hole.

This comment has been deemed insightful by the community.
That One Guy (profile) says:

Re: The call is coming from inside the (White) House

If they get to discovery, they’ll find emails from the White House telling Twitter to de-platform Trump and Twitter responding they would do it within a few hours.

That would be quite the trick, suggesting that either Biden was calling the shots in the White House before he took office or someone on Trump’s staff was telling social media to kick their boss to the curb.

So which is it, was Trump just some chump that was keeping the seat warm while Biden was getting ready to take office officially or did even the people working for Trump want him off social media?

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re:

Or Trump ordered himself banned off Twitter to make himself look like the victim, although I don’t think he’d be able to get Twitter to play along with it.

That One Guy (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:

Not a chance in hell, as much as he and his cultists are persecution fetishists he’s even more addicted to people paying attention to him, so even if the thought occurred to him to try a stunt like that there’s no way he’d willingly cut himself off like that.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Of course you don’t.

“they’ll find emails from the White House telling Twitter to de-platform Trump…”

You got a source for that other than Alex Jones said so?

Anonymous Coward says:

Re:

Ignoring the whole “Cheeto Nazi wanted his brownshirts to violently interfere with the electoral process” and “failed hostile takeover of Capitol Hill” now, eh?

You fucking NeoNazis.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: They will find emails

I was getting a kick out of reading what I thought was satire until I reached the second paragraph. Why did you have to ruin it? Let a neighbor enjoy a nice fairy tale for once! ):

bhull242 (profile) says:

Re:

Even Trump’s lawyers didn’t so much as allege that anyone in the White House was involved in Twitter’s decision. They only alleged that legislators (and certain people not in the government between January 6th, 2021, and January 20th, 2021) were.

This makes perfect sense given that Twitter made that decision on January 8th, 2021, and Trump was still President until January 20th, 2021, so that would mean that Trump’s administration were pressuring Twitter to suspend Trump’s account, which makes absolutely no sense whatsoever to any rational person. Even if Kamala Harris—who is currently in the White House—had sent emails like you described to Twitter, such emails would not have come from the White House as she would not have been in the White House when those emails would have had to be sent.

It is also incredibly unlikely that Twitter would silently follow such demands given how much they pushed back against similar demands from the Obama administration (among others).

Also, as Mike mentioned, the case has already been dismissed. Barring some incredibly unlikely event where Trump prevails on appeal (should he choose to appeal the dismissal) or successfully amend his complaint in such a way that it doesn’t get dismissed by the exact same judge who dismissed this complaint (should he choose to amend his complaint), there will be absolutely no discovery whatsoever in this case, so even if such emails exist (which they certainly don’t) and are genuine, they won’t come out in discovery for this case because there won’t be any discovery for things to come out in.

Basically, your comment is wrong on just about every single level, and it’s even more wrong than the lawsuit that just got dismissed.

jimb (profile) says:

The question this all raises for me...

is where does Trump get his lawyers? What graduate of any reputable law school would even file this lawsuit? Trump, of course, hires “only the best people”. He might try actually paying them for once, and see if he can get a lawyer with actual competence. Of course listening to his lawyers advice would require admitting that he knows less than they do, so that’s just ‘not Trump’. What a LOSER Trump is, over and over, and over and over. Loser, loser, loser. I keep hoping he will run out of time soon, and put us all out of our misery.

That Anonymous Coward (profile) says:

But he’s not mad… from Social Truth

“Happy Mother’s Day to all, including Racist, Vicious, Highly Partisan, Politically Motivated, and Very Unfair Radical Left Democrat Judges, Prosecutors, District Attorneys, and Attorney Generals who campaign unrelentingly against you without knowing a thing, and endlessly promise to take you down. After years of persecution, even the Fake News says there is no case, or, at best, it will be very hard to bring. Someday soon they will be fighting RECORD SETTING Violent Crime. I love you all!”

Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re:

Someday soon they will be fighting RECORD SETTING Violent Crime.

That Trump apparently wants violent crime to keep happening in the United States⁠—in record numbers, no less⁠—says a lot about him.

Mostly, it says “I want more people to die so I can sell myself as The One True Savior”. He already let hundreds of thousands of people die of COVID-19 on his watch; what’s a few more dying of gun violence while he and the GOP wait to steal the 2024 election?

Naughty Autie says:

Re: Re:

Correction: Trump didn’t let hundreds of thousands of people die of COVID-19 on his watch; he actually caused those deaths, albeit indirectly.

bhull242 (profile) says:

Re:

Someday soon they will be fighting RECORD SETTING Violent Crime.

Considering just how far below the current record we are and that such crime has been on a steady decline for decades, I’m doubtful of that.

Lostinlodos (profile) says:

Ignoring facts to get to the facts.

One simple question.

“proper venue in California”

What makes California more proper than any other location he has residency?

Anonymous Coward says:

Re:

What makes California more proper than any other location

Because Twitter is a California company and it’s also part of Twitter’s TOS.

bhull242 (profile) says:

Remember that guy who kept yapping on about how Twitter’s ToS were too vague to be enforceable as a legal contract? And about venue not being proper in California despite the forum selection clause in the user agreement?

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