Copyright Industry Demands Finland’s Version Of Upload Filters Should Be More Unbalanced
from the because-what-else-would-they-do? dept
Like other EU Member States, Finland is grappling with the problem of how to implement the EU Copyright Directive’s Article 17 (upload filters) in national legislation. A fascinating post by Samuli Melart in the Journal of Intellectual Property Law & Practice reveals yet another attempt by the copyright industry to make a bad law even worse. As Melart explains, the Finnish Ministry of Education and Culture has come up with not one, but two attempts at transposition, with diametrically opposing approaches. The first version:
sought to transpose Article 17 by entirely rewriting its provisions. This was meant to rectify conceptual ambiguities and to mitigate fundamental right risks to the users of these [online content sharing service providers].
This version was an honest effort to deal with the contradictions at the heart of the Article 17 – which demands that online platforms should block infringing material but not legal material, and without specifying how that might be done at scale. This attempt to produce a balanced law seems to have been met with howls of anger from the copyright industry, which apparently got to work lobbying the Finnish government:
the responsible minister led two round table meetings with stakeholders concerning the feedback on the first draft. Apparently, participants mostly comprised of representatives of the rightholder side.
This led to the second version of Article 17, which:
retracted from rewriting Article 17 and instead switched to transposing it closer to its original wording following Danish and Swedish models. The freedom of expression emphasis and user right considerations of the first draft were largely removed and replaced with hollow reiterations of the Directive recitals.
According to Melart’s article, the first version was strongly influenced by the view of Advocate General Henrik Saugmandsgaard Øe, who suggested that “sharing service providers must only detect and block content that is ‘identical’ or ‘equivalent’ to the protected subject matter identified by the rightholders”. The second version rejected this approach.
The copyright industry is not content with helping to push through the worst copyright law in recent memory, but even at this late stage is trying to make it more unbalanced. Also notable is the almost complete absence of any input from members of the public during this process, or any serious attempt to protect their fundamental rights – a selfishness that is so typical of the copyright world.
The hope now must be that in the light of this week’s CJEU ruling on upload filters, the Finnish legislative process will come up with a text that is much closer to the first version produced by the Ministry than to the second, if the country wants to comply with the top EU court’s judgment.
Follow me @glynmoody on Twitter, Diaspora, or Mastodon.
Originally posted to the Walled Culture blog.
Filed Under: article 17, copyright, copyright directive, finland, free expression, free speech, upload filters
Comments on “Copyright Industry Demands Finland’s Version Of Upload Filters Should Be More Unbalanced”
and no one is admitting,obviously, to the fact that everything is being done, being forced on to other companies, industries, even on to other countries, all to not just protect the entertainment industries but to ensure they make a killing over the internet, replacing what they are NOT getting from the highstreet stores and the cinema! factor in the removal of the ordinary person to do what they like, what they want on the Internet and you can see just how desperate it is to keep us under control, under the cosh, to keep us as slaves!
Re:
Its very unlikely they will remove what a ordinary person can do what they like on the Internet, Its unlikely they will make a killing over the internet let alone control it.
Well, they’re right. If they mean unbalanced in favour of the consumer, that is. 😉
Collateral damage is a feature, not a bug
According to Melart’s article, the first version was strongly influenced by the view of Advocate General Henrik Saugmandsgaard Øe, who suggested that “sharing service providers must only detect and block content that is ‘identical’ or ‘equivalent’ to the protected subject matter identified by the rightholders”. The second version rejected this approach.
Well they certainly showed their hand with that one and made clear that they aren’t just fine with some innocent people and posts being impacted but are going out of their way to ensure it.
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Re:
This is the idiotic “we must have a database of all works on the planet to do any checking” -approach. Proper copyright checking is more flexible, for example blocking content items that are larger than 4 kilobytes is good copyright check.
Re: Re:
So nobody can post a photograph a song, or anything more than a long comment of a couple of pages of blog post. You will of course take down your software as it is larger that you want to be allowed.
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Re: Re: Re:
Twitter is worth 44Billion bucks even though it properly implements this kind of 280 character limit. So you cannot claim that it somehow kills your business.
Re: Re: Re:2
Even limiting your length limit to text, it kills the business of every self publishing author on the Internet, and any blog posts much longer than this one, which is about 3k characters.
Are you so insanely jealous of everybody who manages to make money on the Internet that you would destroy it?
Re: Re: Re:2
You missed the “Why should anything over 4k be disallowed” part. Maybe because you conceived and posted this most idiotic of ideas.
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Re: Re: Re:3
You’ve always been complaining that checking all submitted content against copyright infringement is too burdensome and automatic filters are not working correctly. This 4k limit saves tons of work in this area because it ensures that you don’t need to manually check content items against copyrights. For example, comparing hollywood movie against 4k sized text element is simply not needed, because we already know that the comparision will always fail. 4k data amount is simply too small for a whole hollywood movie and this removes whole class of pirated content from the service.
Re: Re: Re:4
And now you’re backtracking on the very idea you presented to us and wholeheartedly endorsed in the past—the same idea that would’ve prevented you from ripping off Scott Cawthon like you did?
Dude, I expect at least a little consistency from a dipshit troll like you.
Re: Re: Re:5
Technically, Tero Pulkinnen being an ignorant asshole is completely consistent.
Re: Re: Re:6
You have now reached your 4k character limit, Anonymous Coward. All future posts will now be run through an upload filter to prevent copyright infringement. Please allow up to 24 hours for each post to be algorithmically checked prior to approval. We sincerely hope that this does not inconvenience you too much.
Re: Re: Re:2
Alas, if only all businesses with user-generated-content were twitter.
Re: Re:
That would’ve stopped you from ripping off Scott Cawthon, bro. Which you totally did. Just remindin’ you of that fact, which you can’t refute.
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Re: Re: Re:
I don’t have resources to create a database that contains all works on the planet. Also it would be very stupid database since copyright law forbids publishing any content from the database. So the huge effort goes to waste.
Re: Re: Re:2
And yet, that’s literally the kind of database you’ve not only said other people should implement in their programs, but also said you could implement in your program to prevent everyone from using your program to commit any copyright infringement of any kind anywhere in the world in perpetuity.
Maybe if you could do it, you wouldn’t have ripped off Scott Cawthon like you admitted to doing, bro.
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Re: Re: Re:3
How exactly do you post a hollywood movie to text element with less than 4k in size? It simply isn’t possible while preserving the content quality.
Re: Re: Re:4
Irrelevant. You’ve said people must develop a copyright database to prevent all infringement everywhere in the world in perpetuity—and that doing so was the only way to prevent any program that allows for user input to prevent that program from being used in the same way you used Meshpage to rip off Scott Cawthon (which you totally fuckin’ did, by the way).
You’re the one who suggested that idea in the past. What made you change your mind about that idea now? (Well, other than your desire to be a shit-ass troll who also happens to infringe upon the copyrights on the Five Nights at Freddy’s franchise in his spare time.)
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Re: Re: Re:5
It’s not irrelevant. You claimed that the practice cannot prevent copyright infringement, so now you need to explain how the hollywood movie can be placed to a 4k text element. Either you get the movie fit to the text element, or you need to admit that the copyright prevention technique actually works.
Re: Re: Re:6
No, I claimed that the kind of database you suggested be built to prevent infringement would be too burdensome for all but the wealthiest corporations to build, given the size and speed requirements for that database to work correctly and quickly. You’re the one who kept claiming that wasn’t an issue, even as I told you that your program—which you said would and could stop even the slightest amount of infringement in any and every context—let you rip off Scott Cawthon without you realizing it (which you totally did).
What made you back off from the exact same idea you claimed would protect every copyrighted work everywhere in the world in perpetuity?
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Re: Re: Re:7
I’ve always said that it prevents infringement of Hollywood’s content. I never mentioned anything about Scott Cawthon. In fact, I didn’t even know Scott Cawthon exist in the world, so preparing against evil works created by him couldn’t be attempted.
Re: Re: Re:8
No, you claimed your idea would stop all copyright infringement. You can’t back out of your claim now that it’s inconvenient for you to be reminded of how you ripped off, even accidentally, Scott Cawthon’s legitimately copyrighted work. (Accidental infringement is still infringement, and you did it, bro.) Again: For what reason are you yanking your support for an idea you said was necessary for all programmers of applications that accept user input—including yourself—to implement for the sake of protecting all copyrights everywhere in the world?
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Re: Re: Re:9
I never claimed it’ll stop all copyright infringements. The original problem has been that in demo scene, there was pirate section which made many young people fall into illegal practices. Thus for demos to regain proper legal status, demos and intros need to distance themselves from the original location, which was that demos/intros were attached to pirated games.
This “attach” operation became significant hurdle in designing proper copyright enforcement features. Especially video files was significant problem. Video grabbing software exist, and thus it was possible to attach demos/intros that we built to any pirated hollywood movies files. Currently we have good solution to this problem, basically open source and video grabbing features went to trashcan to avoid the attach operation with hollywood movies.
Thus hollywood movies are significant problem, and our software do not have video-playing features. Transferring our software output to video frameworks is explicitly limited to avoid legal problems.
As you can see, the critical part of our software is the demo/intro area attach operation and how output of our system can be misused to create illegal intro+piracy combinations which need to be forbidden by the software.
Thus we have evaluated all our feature combinations. There’s 2^600 combinations available in our software, and we need to ensure that those combinations do not further enable those illegal piracy use cases.
Re: Re: Re:10
[O]pen source and video grabbing features went to trashcan to avoid the attach operation with [H]ollywood movies.
ORLY? FYI, open source is so popular that even Microsoft uses open source licensing. And if video grabbing “went to trashcan,” then how in the hell did I download Download This Song from YouTube (with MC Lars’ permission)?
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Re: Re: Re:11
I can’t take responsibility for someone elses software.
Re: Re: Re:12
You never said that you were talking only about your own software, either. Stop speaking generally, and then claim you were talking specofically when challenged. Such lies only undermine your arguments.
Re: Re: Re:12
Given how your software didn’t stop you from ripping off Scott Cawthon, you can’t even take responsibility for your own software.
Re: Re: Re:13
its enough that the software isn’t configured for piracy.
skype is good example. they took a plain piracy network and configured it to only transfer your mom’s face instead of transferring pirated hollywood movies.
skype had significant tech challenges: they had to wait for users to purchase webcams. their tech was many years completely useless because webcams were not generally available among end users. but instead of breaking their tech with pirated hollywood movies, they just waited for webcams to become popular.
this is what success looks like. the internet kept complaining that they had no hardware and enabling the piracy use case would be easy and simple thing for them to do. but they resisted and got success as a result.
Re: Re: Re:14
How do you configure Notepad++ to prevent piracy without either (a) attaching a database of every copyrighted work in the world to the program or (b) destroying its primary functionality of being a word processor?
what the actual fuck are you saying
Skype was never a “piracy network”. This is literally the first time I’ve ever heard anyone accuse Skype of being used for any kind of piracy. While I don’t doubt that some filetrading was going on, I don’t think it was at Napster’s levels in both filesize and scope.
That’s why video calls weren’t even available in Skype in its earliest versions: The hardware tech—both webcams and broadband speeds/bandwith—needed to improve before the software could consistently handle video calls. (I’ll guess that you’re next going to say “broadband speeds were raised by pirates”, which would make you even more insane than I thought.)
Nobody has ever said that. Ever. You’re “someone should institutionlize you” levels of insane if you actually believe that.
Re: Re: Re:15
Similar way you (==internet) are complaining that properly following copyright is just impossible and shouldn’t be attempted at all. You’d rather see people violate copyright than you’d be willing to accept that your minimalistic ideology is just plain wrong. But guess what, you criminal, your copyright minimalistic people are regularly in the jail cell when they cannot control their piracy tendencies. Our position is that this kind of sloppy practices shouldn’t be advocated. It sounds easier, but it just ruins people.
Re: Re: Re:16
Oh, not for a lack of trying. People followed copyright laws the way you demanded. You still sued innocent people and tried to argue that they should pay you money even if they didn’t download anything. You publicly, openly supported Prenda Law and Malibu Media going after innocent people. When following the law does not protect you from people finding you guilty, despite following all the rules as you demanded, following the law becomes meaningless.
Economic research has indicated that lengthy copyright terms have not provided significant upgrades to how much money is made by content creators. You don’t need to see people violate copyright to see that having a copyright length that lasts longer than a person’s natural life span is not a guarantee that more or better content will be made.
Yeah, about that… how many cases of criminal copyright infringement on a user level went all the way to a verdict in the US? Two. How many of those two have been on the inside of a jail cell? Zero. How much of their fines were paid? Based on publicly available records… none. Not a cent, because those fines were enough to qualify them for bankruptcy. This idea that “copyright minimalistic people” are getting thrown in jail en masse simply doesn’t add up based on the numbers.
Your alternative is to allow the likes of Paul Hansmeier, Andrew Crossley and Richard Liebowitz to take over the legal system and rape veterans and grandmothers for hooker money. No thanks.
Re: Re: Re:17
Here’s another one where your copyright minimalists are at the receiving end of fury of the courts:
https://torrentfreak.com/new-copyright-lawsuit-targets-uploaders-of-10-minute-movie-edits-220524/
Re: Re: Re:18
That is not the US. I’ll acknowledge that Japan has been going pretty apeshit with their copyright law in recent years, though that’s mostly rooted in the fact that Japan has a very much “guilt upon accusation” culture that focuses on arrests and convictions, not the opportunity for defendants to plead their case. It’s to the point where the UN has expressed concern over their human rights abuses. So… not really surprising that you’d support abusing human rights in the name of copyright.
Re: Re: Re:8
Stricter copyright rules don’t care. The rules that you demanded everyone follow can’t even be followed by you, their biggest advocate. But it’s hardly a surprise, copyright tards like were never in it for the fairness or the justice.
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Re: Re: Re:9
Well, If I have trouble following the rules, then those people who put their head to the sand and refuse to even try to follow the stricter version of the rules will be in huge trouble when their sloppy practices leaves truck-sized holes to their copyright story. While you claim my violations are significant, these sloppy copyright minimalists will be spending 20 years of their life in prison. The strict rules are helping avoid the biggest roadblocks, but if you don’t even try to do it properly, the situation will be significantly worse.
Re: Re: Re:10
If you don’t receive punishment for those violations, any claim that others should receive punishment will be meaningless. That’s the thing about laws – when they’re not evenly enforced, people tend not to care. And that’s even before going into the legal implications of your laws, which don’t exist – not even at the level that Article 17 intends to introduce.
As a tip, people also tend to ignore lunatics like you who advocate execution as a penalty for copyright infringement.
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Re: Re: Re:11
I don’t think you understand the legal status of those rules. Everyone in usa went from “follow copyright” to “follow dmca and ignore copyright and hope that safe harbor is still available when you get sued”. In EU we don’t have these dmca style limited liability for platforms, and given that there’s 0 end users posting content, the safe harbor/limited liability for platforms isn’t simply available for anything we create. Thus following copyright is the right thing to do, and we despise anyone who goes with the “ignore copyright” route. The strict copyright is all about avoiding idiots who are into the “ignore” and try to keep “follow copyright” rules intact.
Re: Re: Re:12
In EU we don’t have these dmca style limited liability for platforms, and given that there’s 0 end users posting content, the safe harbor/limited liability for platforms isn’t simply available for anything we create.
ORLY? There’s plenty of end users in the EU posting content.
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Re: Re: Re:13
Great. tell them to visit my web site.
Re: Re: Re:14
Why would they bother? You don’t host fanfiction.
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Re: Re: Re:15
I have something better than fanfiction. Instead of riding on someone elses popularity, I have completely original assets that noone can recognize. Thus if my implementation fails to impress, I wouldn’t be ruining your mutantninjaturtles movie experience. This saves the day.
Re: Re: Re:16
People don’t go to AO3 for shit… I mean software that’s putatively ‘better than fanfiction’, they go to AO3 for fanfiction and original fiction. And as for your sh… software being ‘completely original assets. Bullshit. An original expression of an idea doesn’t make the underlying idea original. We are all standing on the shoulders of giants.
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Re: Re: Re:17
You should focus on the “riding on someone else’s popularity”… Basically inferior products gets highlighted in the marketplace simply because they are committing copyright infringement or trademark infringement. There’s no good reason why some idiots who started development a year ago should attach to the popularity of some large company and get 2 million hits on their web page simply because they managed to attract people by promising to implement next batman episode.
Re: Re: Re:18
You’re right – if not for you infringing on Scott Cawthon’s copyright, literally nobody would have bothered with you.
Re: Re: Re:18
Well, if authors aren’t creative, then neither are you. Everybody making something uses unoriginal ideas, and the only ‘creative’ thing in basic software is the code.
Re: Re: Re:18
So should you, but not for the reason you think.
The software you’re using, the computer you’re using, and even the language you’re using are all the end result of the work of generations of people who existed long before you ever did—the reiteration and refinement of ideas upon ideas upon ideas stretching back all the way to when man first made the wheel. No idea you encounter today is truly original; hell, even Meshpage is built upon (however indirectly) the work of people who were making 3D modeller programs before you ever wrote one line of code.
We all stand upon the shoulders of giants, in that all we do was given to us by the work of those who came before us either in our fields of interest or in life itself. I wouldn’t be writing this comment right now if not for Firefox (which was made possible by the existence of all the web browsers that came before it), the laptop I’m using (which was made possible by the existence of all other kinds of computers and computer-related technology that came before it), and modern-day American English (which was made possible by said language stealing from basically every other living language in the world and at least a couple of dead ones).
Have some respect for the people who came before you, Tero. Maybe if you did, you wouldn’t have ripped off Scott Cawthon.
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Re: Re: Re:19
You definitely do not understand the real problem. The issue isn’t about “stand upon shoulders of giants”. It’s part of copyright law that new entrants need to prove their worth in the marketplace by creating useful enough gadgets and technologies that the world can still survive after your technology conquered the world. Noone cares if some russian spy got enigma stolen from sank submarine in world war II. Still crypto technologies have proven their worth in the marketplace. Now when your technology is attempting to replace the WWII crypto tech with some ROT13 cryptocraphy, how are you ensuring that your solution actually works better than what the world has used for last 100 years? The old gadgets where the WWII crypto is based on are rotting and soon need to be replaced, but how is the modern technology that replaces it better than what came before?
When you “ride on someone’s popularity”, you get the world to use technologies that are not ready to replace your bank’s crypto systems. When old stuff is rotting, when your piracy operation gets used by 2 million people on the planet, it’s replacing some old technology, but the solution isn’t actually better than the old tech. The tech gets undeserved attention in the marketplace, and thus this operation is illegal by the copyright laws.
Re: Re: Re:20
Well, you’ve already failed at ensuring your “solution” works better than what the world is currently using. Your lack of users proves this. So no – you don’t have a leg to stand on or a ground for complaint. Your best bet is to use a threadbare, shitty pretext of “copyright infringement” to pray that your competitors like Unity and Blender get sued out of the market by some imaginary deity, because nobody with a working brain would finance Meshpage or such a litigious campaign. The best you have is shitposting here constantly thinking that you’re playing four-dimensional chess when really, all you’re doing is defecating in a pigsty and calling that a crowning achievement.
Re: Re: Re:21
yes. but I’m not using illegal means to get world use my technologies. So, if I ever get my first users, they’re all deserved because my tech is so cool, and not simply because I’m nextdoor to popular batman level technology. Basically I don’t need to get users too early. only when the tech is mature and can stand on its own, will I get users. No need to ruin your mickey mouse experience.
Re: Re: Re:22
And who is—Mozilla? The people behind Blender? The devs of literally any open source project? Go ahead, tell us all about these “illegal means” devs and publishers are using to get the world to use their technologies. Lay it all out in minute, boring-ass detail. Cite every law, to the letter, that makes what they do illegal. Cite what the punishments should be for their violations of those exact laws.
Then tell us why you ripping off Scott Cawthon isn’t the life-in-prison crime you’ve always said copyright infringement of any kind should be.
Re: Re: Re:23
You can read them in the newspapers. The story always ends as “the court decided that XXX should pay $250,000 euros to the content owners”.
Yes, this particular case with $250,000 damage award, they were publishing 103 radio channels without content owner’s permission.
In detail, they were using evil browser technology called “anchor” to link someone elses radio channel to their web page, and then collecting adverticement money based on user visits to the tune of 300,000 euros.
Copyright law says that linking to unlicensed content on the internet web page is illegal.
Court in finland explicitly said they should pay 250,000 euros to the content owner as punishment.
1) the problem has been fixed
2) the identity of scott have never been clear, you probably invented him from your ass
3) there’s defense called “license”, which solves the issue
4) scott isn’t here to keep track of his ownership rights and noone else but scott can do that
5) I’ve used authorised vendor to obtain my permissions, scott’s presense isn’t needed when someone else claims to own the material
6) blaming me for any remaining problems isn’t possible without blaming sketchfab and you’ve failed to do that
7) whole scott spectacle is your invention, so you should take the blame for the fallout
Re: Re: Re:24
Two things.
(Besides, if that held true, your program would be illegal because you ripped off Scott Cawthon.)
You may think it “evil”, but is it explicitly illegal—i.e., does any law criminalize any use of “anchor” technology in the context of either web browsing or audio livestreaming?
Irrelevant; you still ripped him off.
Only if you think the Five Nights at Freddy’s franchise was created out of thin fucking air. Scott Cawthon is a real person and you ripped him off.
You didn’t have a license from Scott, and I’m guessing the place you said you got the model from didn’t have one either. You infringed on Scott’s copyrights and, under your own personal copyright ideology, you can’t claim Fair Use/Dealing or ignorance as a defense of your crime.
Irrelevant. You still infringed upon his copyright on Springtrap.
I just did above. But even so, you failed to do the legwork in determining whether Sketchfab had a proper license for the Springtrap model. As I said before: Under your copyright ideology, ignorance doesn’t count as a defense of infringement.
Technically, it’s your fault, because you’re the one who ripped him off. I just pointed out the fact of your infringement.
What “fallout”—you mean you being embarassed enough to remove the Springtrap model from your shit-ass Meshpage demonstration, or you being constantly reminded (and you will be reminded every time you post) that you infringed upon the copyrights on the Five Nights at Freddy’s franchise that was created by Scott Cawthon? Because I might waste some time here and there picking on you, but you’re the one who—again, under your expressed copyright ideology—infringed upon copyrights held by someone else, which should mean you must spend twenty years in prison for your crime.
And I’ll be damned if I let an admitted criminal like you tell me about some mythical “fallout” that doesn’t affect anyone but his law-violating ass.
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Re: Re: Re:25
According to court, this isn’t true. But it depends on who is actually doing the publishing/broadcasting. The original radio channels are well within their rights to broadcast their radio channels over the internet. But the filthy pirates are not allowed to do the exactly the same operation.
Re: Re: Re:26
You are conducing the legality of a technology, and the legality of any particular use of that technology.
Re: Re: Re:26
Thank you, Ted, that was the point.
Re: Re: Re:22
What you do is threaten to get your competitors destroyed based on spurious, groundless copyright infringement claims, and get angry at everyone else for not recognizing your godhood. You’re a sociopath barely restrained by your incompetence and ineptitude.
If you don’t need users now, you don’t need the government to give you money now either. You’ve made it abundantly clear that this is your business strategy. So you have no grounds to whine that the government isn’t giving you millions now.
Re: Re: Re:23
This only works for pirates. The normal competitors wouldn’t be affected. But the current situation is that legal entities are getting $48 compensation for their work, while illegal pirates are at $300,000. This equation must balance at some point, when content owners sue the pirates and users of those pirate services move to use legal services. The copyright law ensures that this will eventually happen, it’s a promise by the government. It just requires some co-operation with the content owners. I.e. content owners need to bring worst violators to the court for proper evalution.
Re: Re: Re:24
what in the actual godforsaken hellfuck are you talking about, you insane extremist
Re: Re: Re:25
Tero has previously claimed that Meshpage has made him a total of $48 over the course of eight years, which is… honestly surprising, because he’s made claims that Meshpage has secured a NDA-hidden deal with a game developer/publisher after seven years of negotiations. There’s also the fact that Meshpage continues to be a free download software, so… how it made any money is a mystery.
The $300k figure comes from the Torrentfreak article he linked where a “pirate radio” series of websites allegedly made that much money in ads… which is extremely contentious, when you consider that the court leaned on a very dubious claim that reproducing lyrics to songs was “pirating”.
Re: Re: Re:26
rewards for piracy are completely outrageous compared to what legal entities are receiving for similar amount of work.
Re: Re: Re:27
Again, these “rewards” you like to claim exist don’t mesh with the facts of copyright cases. The trials over The Pirate Bay and ISOHunt proved that piracy is not a moneymaker, and the plaintiffs – the IFPI – knew this going in.
As for the “similar amount of work”, that’s a terrible comparison. You yourself claimed that comparing you to Blender and 3dsmax was illegal because they work with a team and you don’t. Comparing yourself to pirates is meaningless. You’re not going to be on par with them purely on a numbers perspective.
Re: Re: Re:20
No, it isn’t. No part of copyright law says “you can’t make something unless you’re sure it’s going to be sold to billions of people worldwide”. Even two sentence–long short stories can be copyrighted. Nothing—and I mean nothing—in copyright law is about making people “prove their worth in the marketplace” and there is nothing—absolutely 100% motherfuckin’ nothing—you can cite that proves otherwise, you dirty fuckin’ infringer. (Did you forget that you ripped off Scott Cawthon? I didn’t.)
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Re: Re: Re:21
it actually says completely opposite. When original author decides that his technology is doing more damage in the world than is allowed and stops giving permissions to users, the market reach of those technologies need to get smaller.
when pirates fail to follow the decisions of the original authors about the market reach, they are breaking the careful balance of technologies that the world is based on.
copyright isn’t there to make your work popular. its there to make sure your tech isn’t breaking the world when it gets popular.
Re: Re: Re:22
You are supporting the real purpose of copyright, and that is to allow middlemen to make money from the labors of others. As a software writer you are a laborer, who forgot to get hired before laboring away on a project.
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Re: Re: Re:23
I think it’s very arrogant for you to claim that the middlemen are making money without actually deserving the compensation they’re receiving. You don’t even know what rules those middlemen need to follow to get permission to handle other people’s hard work. The requirements for getting middlemen status are harsher than you think. Not only you need to understand the technologies you handle, but also you need to get global market to accept the technology that you have available and make it popular. That is already significant enough task for middlemen, that if they succeed in that task, they’ve deserved the money they receive via copyrights.
Re: Re: Re:24
Except that’s how fucking capitalism works. The CEO of Amazon makes far more money than Amazon warehouse workers for doing far less work than those workers, who themselves put in more hours and manpower than they honestly should to keep Amazon running.
When you aren’t ripping off Scott Cawthon, maybe you should read a fucking book about capitalism that doesn’t metaphorically suck capitalism’s dick.
Re: Re: Re:24
You might not like it, but this is a prevailing point of view – and not without reason. When a middleman makes billions of dollars every year simply by posting random blogposts on LinkedIn, while the ground workers on the grassroots level who actively keep operations running get barely paid above the cost of living, it’s not surprising that people start wondering if paying celebrity CEOs and middlemen is worth the cost.
About those rules… those don’t actually get followed. Richard Liebowitz in particular was notorious for representing copyright clients in court who didn’t even know he was suing for money on their behalf.
In their prime, Prenda’s requirements for getting middlemen to carry out their suing operations was putting out ads on Craigslist and waiting for the cheapest lawyers to show up. The downside was that they generally were pretty terrible, Brett Gibbs and Jacques Nazaire being some of the worst examples. Which was also kinda the point, because it made it easier for Prenda to toss them under the bus the moment they stopped becoming useful.
Copyright lawyers genuinely don’t understand any of the technology. They’ve gone on record saying the dumbest things like claiming that “IP address” stands for “intellectual property address”. That’s their entire gambit, praying if they scream “Theft!” enough judges will somehow wet their pants and grant them default judgments.
Meshpage has zero users. You clearly haven’t got the global market to accept the technology, or make it popular. Why do you feel entitled to our money for work that has clearly not succeeded?
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Re: Re: Re:25
None of the so-called middlemen wanted the tech.
Re: Re: Re:26
So you spend a whole series of paragraphs demanding that middlemen should be respected and paid through the nose, but at the end of the day, you can’t even get the most copyright-fanatical scumbags to want Meshpage.
After boasting that you spent almost a decade working on your software, claiming that you secured a game developer/publisher to use Meshpage as proprietary software while refusing to share any other details due to an NDA… this is where you are, with a piece of crapware that even copyright lawyers don’t even want. I guess that means there is some hope for humanity after all.
Re: Re: Re:27
Yeah, getting MPAA’s and RIAA*s attention is more difficult than you think. Even big piracy operations have on average been operating for 10 years before RIAA/MPAA takes a notice and sues their ass. So if big piracy operations that slurp half of the isp’s internet traffic cannot get attention from the content owners, what chance do some troll from finland who built a 3d web site have to get RIAA/MPAA subscribe to the technology? The chances are pretty much zero, but at least I’ve tried.
Re: Re: Re:28
It’s almost like they operate in a completely different country. Or, more likely, you don’t have anything to offer them that might catch their interests, not even for their Finnish division. (My guess is they have one. They have their offensive phallus rammed into every possible gloryhole they can find.)
Suing anyone tends to be a little more involved than pointing in a general direction and demanding that the courts take action. To the RIAA’s credit, they at least try to put up an impression of gathering evidence and making a case, even though their standards of evidence are typically the quality of raw poop smears.
Your failed understanding of what it takes to get people to adopt your technology is, frankly, no skin off anyone’s nose. It’s been said before, if your tech is the revolutionary kid-friendly software you claim it is, you can always go to schools and teach it to kids because you can’t stand the idea of other adult humans. But you won’t even do that.
Re: Re: Re:16
Which is why noone uses them.
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Re: Re: Re:17
This is true, but it isn’t good enough reason to start boosting the popularity of the works via illegal means.
Re: Re: Re:18
How is anybody boosting the popularity of Blender and its ilk through “illegal means”? Is that like how you tried to boost the popularity of Springtrap by infringing on Scott Cawthon’s copyrights, you fuckin’ thief?
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Re: Re: Re:19
Well, blender is providing “original” content, so they don’t need to boost their popularity with illegal means.
The situation is different with the radio stations who got 250,000 euro damage award.
Re: Re: Re:20
Then stop talking about that shit if you can’t prove that shit.
Then that situation is irrelevant.
Prove that your
competitionsuperiors in the 3D modelling/rendering are using “illegal means” to boost their popularity or fuck off. Saying “but they let people model copyrighted characters” or some other appeal to copyright law is both unacceptable and irrelevant—your software does the same thing, and you proved as much when you ripped off Scott Cawthon.This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it.
Re: Re: Re:21
There’s no reason to attempt this kind of proof. Probably it’s going to fail. I never claimed that blender or unity are doing illegal stuff. You invented that from your ass.
Re: Re: Re:22
You’ve literally been talking about how some people are using “illegal means” to help people use their technologies in this entire comments section. Don’t back down now just because you can’t prove that shit—that’s never stopped your thieving ass before!
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Re: Re: Re:23
Yes. but I have never mentioned blender or unity in the same context. Basically this “illegal means” are pointed at piracy operations like pirate bay, or iptv operators who publish copyright owners content or anyone who gets convicted/pays >100k of damage awards for copyright infringements.
It gets tiring to see pirates get 300k money from the market when legal entities are getting $48 during the same time.
Re: Re: Re:24
And yet…
…you’ve long said programs like Blender are tools of infringement because they allow infringement like modelling copyrighted characters to happen. It’s not a huge leap to think they’d also use “illegal means” to convince people to use their technology, like you think all other “piracy operations” do.
what the actual goddamn fuck are you talking about, dude
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Re: Re: Re:25
No, the mickey mouse and creating face of a mickey with few circles is your invention. I never claimed that to be significant contributor to infringements.
Re: Re: Re:26
Neither did I. But up until now, you’ve never refuted the claim that you believe all software must either hinder or disable its primary functionality to prevent all possible copyright infringement.
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Re: Re: Re:27
If the main use case for your technology is piracy related, of course you either need to disable the feature or get sued by the content owners.
Currently projects like ffmpeg are in serious trouble with content owners, simply because there exist large number of pirates who use the software for illegal activities. Once content owners find out what the “open source” folks developed, they will be seriously sued and the technology declared illegal.
HTML5 has similar problems with their video tags. While we haven’t seen significant piracy activity with video tags, the potential for misuse is there, and in the end when pirates find out about the feature, content owners take a notice and html5 will be sued for their features.
Basically how the process of declaring some technology illegal goes is that the content owners find some convicted pirates, and analyze the tools that the pirates are using. If those tools enable the piracy activity, the tools will be declared illegal and the authors of those tools will be sued. They also can sue end users that use those illegal tools.
napster, kazaa and few other tools were declared illegal this way. ffmpeg is probebly next in line.
Re: Re: Re:28
You’ve been talking about all applications, from Blender to Notepad++, needing to either hinder or disable their primary functionality because that functionality could potentially allow infringement. You never said a goddamn thing about “primary use case” until now; you either said or implied that any program that allows any input has to stop infringement by any means necessary, even if such means make the program worthless.
(That would include Meshpage, BTW, since it let you rip off Scott Cawthon.)
What the fuck are you even talking about? Even if someone uses ffmpeg for “illegal activities”, ffmpeg is still a tool with no moral dimension—people can use the program for activities both legal and illegal, and you can’t prove someone made ffmpeg only for illegal activities. (People using ffmpeg for infringement isn’t proof, by the by, so don’t even bother with that argument.)
HTML5 is a tool with no inherent moral dimension. While DRM is technically part of the HTML5 spec (to the dismay of many), a video displayed in HTML5 that doesn’t use DRM isn’t inherently “illegal” (i.e., infringing on someone’s copyrights). You can’t prove otherwise.
If that were true, no program would be available because any program can be used to infringe upon copyrights if you work hard enough at it.
Under your logic, word processors wouldn’t be available to anyone because people could potentially type an entire copyright book into them. Under your logic, video editors wouldn’t be avaliable to anyone because people could potentially rip a Blu-ray and make a video file, even if they only put that file on a personal media server that isn’t connected to the Internet. Under your logic, every 3D modelling program—including your own—wouldn’t be available to anyone because people could potentially recreate copyrighted material such as 3D character models.
Your logic would make computers useless. You are functionally insane.
Re: Re: Re:29
Never mind word processors, a pencil and paper allows a book to be copied, as does the original copying method, pen and paper.
Re: Re: Re:30
And in the case of pen/pencil and paper, hands allow someone to use those things, which means human hands are a tool of infringement.
Someone better get a machete. 🙃
Re: Re: Re:31
But only pirates will have hands……
Re: Re: Re:29
Simlar way skype’s “main functionality” of pirating hollywood movies went to trashcan and after some design meetings, they decided to focus on sending mom’s face over the network. Once that decision was made, the “main functionality” wasn’t any longer piracy related, but instead they got legal video call network instead.
But it’s dangerous time for skype. Allowing video source plugins for skype can easily turn their network into it’s original piracy purposes. If they’re not careful, pirate groups are doing their own design and overtaking skype’s hard work and enable the piracy use case all again.
But this is why all technology developers need to be carefully listening what happens in the real world. If the technology is being misused, those misuses need to be solved in some way early in the process before the practices become too large in scope.
Very important features are completely missing from the world simply because the authors cannot control their pirating customers. ISP’s are being sued for supporting piracy use cases, and all new technologies are being evaluated how widely they support piracy. It’s simply not possible to create any technology nowadays without trying to control how masses are using the technology. Protection features against piracy and misuse and copyright infringement are necessary part of any new technologies. If tech developers fail in that task, they will be sued once they receive actual users.
Re: Re: Re:30
Explain in detail how a VOIP app, with only voice capability could have been used to pirate movies. By the time Skype gained video capabilities it was well established as an Internet phone application.
Re: Re: Re:31
If they were a little bit sloppy in their implementation work, the end-to-end control of video sources would have not happened. But they looked at all the pieces, built a service that controls the whole technology stack, and found solution that respects rights of the content owners.
Many other websites, mainly “iptv services” are not so careful with their implementation, and content owners have been suing them as fast as they can find their location on the internet. Basically allowing unrestricted mp4 files to be passed through the video services is a big mistake that doesn’t respect the rights of the content owners.
It’s skype’s focus on voice and sending sound over the network in real time that of course forms a base for the solution they’re offering, but important aspect of what they’re doing is that they actually respect the copyright interest of other players in the market, and thus do not allow unrestricted piracy or pirate groups from using the service for illegal activity.
This focus on limiting possibilities for misuse is very important in future internet. While explicit pirate services will still exist and they will be hunted down in the future too, legit technology vendors should spend some time to ensure that their technology is not used for illegal purposes.
Re: Re: Re:32
You replicated Scott Cawthon’s work without permission. It’s very clear that you have not spent this time you think everyone else should. But you’re the guy who thinks that hammer manufacturers should somehow design a hammer that can’t be used to injure others.
Re: Re: Re:33
Your original position was that the problem is impossible to solve. Now you reversed your position on that, and now you’re claiming that we didn’t spend enough time to get it solved. So it wasn’t actually impossible to solve, just would take more time?
Re: Re: Re:34
If you had spent the time that you claim other people should have spent, you would have realized that solving it was impossible. Your own standards on stricter copyright law intentionally made it impossible. The position was never reversed; I called you out on your hypocrisy.
Re: Re: Re:29
worthless program is better than program that actively causes damage around the world.
Re: Re: Re:25
Torrentfreak recently ran an article about it – a 37 year old man ran several sites which got him nailed for copyright infringement: https://torrentfreak.com/six-month-sentence-for-operator-of-copyright-infringing-lyric-radio-portals-220509/
What Tero neglects to mention that the sites included reproduction of lyrics to popular songs (including user submissions which the site owner moderated and edited), as well as direct links to official portals where you could listen to radio stations legitimately. So… not the moneymaking grand pirate operation Tero hopes to position it as, but consider that Tero thinks that drawing your own subway map is copyright infringement, and it becomes clear why he’s desperately trying to push the angle.
Re: Re: Re:26
These weren’t actually legimate radio stations, given that content owners had not given their permission to reproduce the material. In fact, the content owners had explicitly stated that they do not allow the use that their nettiradio.fi site was using.
Re: Re: Re:27
Pirating would be downloading the broadcasts and hosting those downloads on the defendant’s website. What the article states is that the links in question directly linked to the broadcasters’ websites. That’s not pirating, not even in the sense of playing the broadcasts directly on nettiradio.fi. It’s literally pointing users to the broadcasters’ official links. Calling that piracy is the equivalent of claiming that a road map contributes to theft by pointing out where the local bank is.
Re: Re: Re:28
Copyright analysis does not consider LINKS as you think. The analysis is per-page basis, and if you create a web page, you’re responsible for the whole page’s content. If you add links to copyrighted material to the page without owner’s permission, it’s called copyright infringement. Legally there isn’t any exception to the rules related to links/anchors.
And in this case, by placing adverticement to the page with links to pirated content, the site owners got 300,000 euros of criminally obtained money. There’s no reason why the site owners should receive this money. They didn’t create the content in question, so the money does not belong to the site owners.
Re: Re: Re:29
Except that the content wasn’t pirated. The links directed users to legal locations where the content could be consumed legally. You’re arguing that if I tell someone where to purchase a book directly from the author, I should be fined and jailed for copyright infringement. That’s nuts, like you.
Your anger is not that copyright infringement occurred; your anger is because you look at imaginary sums of money and get jealous about why you’re not similarly rich. But relevant to the point, running ads is not nearly as lucrative as you keep portraying it to be. Copyright enforcers have lied so much on the stand about how much money ads make or how much money defendants have (see the trials on IsoHunt, Depositfile et al) there is very little reason to believe that such large sums of money exist.
Re: Re: Re:22
On multiple occasions you claimed that Blender and Unity were inferior to Meshpage precisely because your competitors were performing “illegal operations”. Such as automatically owning the copyright on everything their users create. Never mind the fact that that’s not how copyright law works, the claim that Blender, Unity, Maya etc were operating illegally has been the consistent cornerstone of your argument of why people should use Meshpage over everything else.
People read your comments, Tero. It’s not hard. If you weren’t constantly trying to lie your way out of everything, you’d notice this.
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Re: Re: Re:23
I never claimed anything like this.
The illegal operations have always belonged to pirate sites, iptv or steaming sites, or convicted criminals who got millions of damage awards.
Re: Re: Re:24
Yes, you have. As someone who has spent…well, frankly, far more time than he ever should have spent arguing with you, I know you’ve claimed shit like that in the past.
Re: Re: Re:24
I’ve been involved in many discussions with you on this subject, and you absolutely have. Not only that, but this is a complete 180° from your previous statements in them and other things you claim here.
Re: Re: Re:24
You’ve ben caught lying and trolling on multiple occasions, Tero. It’s really not difficult to catch you out.
The truth of the matter is you’re a sociopath who loathes other humans, adult or child, and you’d sooner rape and murder everyone else to fill your sadistic coffers and power fantasies. If you were in a country less protected than Finland you’d be out on the streets and beaten to a pulp. All you can do, and will do, is shake your fist in impotent anger, furious because the world won’t kiss your footprints or suck your flaccid cock.
Re: Re: Re:10
The strict rules are helping create the biggest roadblocks, and if you don’t even try to do it properly, the situation will be significantly worse.
FTFY. YW.
Re: Re: Re:10
Given that you’ve admitted to ripping off Scott Cawthon, and given that you’ve said in the past that Fair Use/Dealing shouldn’t be a defense against infringement, and given how you’ve pushed for extremist copyright laws that would likely snag you for your accidental infringement…well, I hope you enjoy that same 20 years for displaying a Springtrap model without Scott’s consent, asshole.
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Re: Re: Re:11
Given that governments have some idiots to worry too, the laws still haven’t evolved to strict enough status. Supposedly some of the pirates need to live too, even though their activities are causing significant damage in the world. But Putin also need to live even though he conquered and destroyed ukraine. So we just need to get the old levelisation back into play: at level1, there’s hitler, stalin and putin and other war criminals. at level2, there’s pirates, robbers, drugdealers and techdirt. at level3, there’s idlers, people on holiday, ice hockey players etc. At level4 there’s university teachers, programming language authors, scientists at LHC, astronauts, people who build houses and internet routers and then meshpage. at level5, there’s bill gates, elon musk, politicians
So that’s the levelisation structure we’ll be implementing in your area very soon.
Re: Re: Re:12
I have no idea what the fuck you just said, but it’s all irrelevant. You push for the strictest possible copyright laws; under those laws, you’d be punished—harshly, might I add—for your infringement of Scott Cawthon’s copyrights. You can’t claim accidental infringement or Fair Use/Dealing as defenses because the same copyright laws you want enacted would negate those defenses.
Under your preferred and expressed copyright ideology, you would be as guilty of the crime of copyright infringement as anyone who downloaded a copy of Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness this past weekend—and you’d both deserve and receive the same punishment for your crime. Nothing you say or do can change these absolute and unwavering facts: You stole from Scott Cawthon, you deserve to be punished for doing so, and you yourself agree with those two facts.
Hell of a hole you’ve dug for yourself, Tero. You won’t get out of it by digging up.
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Re: Re: Re:13
I don’t think you have any idea how strict copyright law-ideas are really working. The main idea is that when people explicitly choose to follow stricter copyright rules, then they don’t accidentally violate the laws that actually exist in courts etc, i.e. places which need to deal with all kinds of people, from evil criminals to white wizards.
This makes it useful practise to follow strict copyright rules, even if you’d need to go against the rest of the world which always want more and more flexibility and want people to violate copyrights.
Basically this flexibility isn’t needed when designing technologies for end users. Basically it’s better to restrict users and build tech that implements 280 byte limits for text elements instead of allowing spammers to publish their pirated material in the text elements.
There’s no reason to allow misuse of the technologies that you build. This is the main difference between you and me. I want misuse to be removed from the world and I am willing to work hard to get it done.
You on the other hand think that misuse is too big problem and nothing can be done to it, and thus you don’t even try to solve the problems. You’re corrupt. Some pirates paid you to look the other way when the criminal organisations are conquering the world.
Re: Re: Re:14
And yet, despite you saying you believe in those laws—and assumedly operating by their strictness despite such laws not being in place—you’re still guilty of infringing Scott Cawthon’s copyrights, even if only by accident. You did it, you admit to doing it, and you can’t raise any viable defense against it under your copyright ideology.
Again: Even though you claimed Meshpage had these kinds of limitations in place, you still managed to violate someone else’s copyright with Meshpage. Under your copyright ideology, you didn’t go far enough in restricting what users could do, which makes you guilty of both copyright infringement and creating a tool of infringement. You did those things, you admit to doing those things, and you can’t raise any viable defense against those things under your copyright ideology.
Nope. I believe misuse is an issue, but said issue isn’t for a software developer to solve—it’s for a court to determine whether the end product of a use of technology such as a word processor or a 3D modelling program infringes upon someone else’s copyrights.
Notepad++ has no inherent moral dimension. The app is a tool, nothing more or less. Whether I type a wholly original story or use it to read copyrighted text I copied from online sources makes no difference: The tool doesn’t—can’t—know the difference without destroying its primary functionality. You might claim (and have claimed!) you can destroy Meshpage’s primary functionality without destroying its inherent usefulness to anyone else, but you and I both know you’re full of shit in that regard.
We don’t ban all knives whenever someone uses a knife to kill another person. We shouldn’t ban software—including your inferior 3D modelling bullshit—because someone could use it to infringe on another person’s copyrights.
But hey, if you want to push ahead with such a ban, let’s go with your software first. After all, we both know you ripped off Scott Cawthon using Meshpage. You admitted it; you can’t un-admit it.
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Re: Re: Re:15
You don’t need to handle morals in the software.
Copyright law says that there is specific exclusive operations that belong to the copyright owners. Performing, displaying and distributing the copyrighted works are among those exclusive operations.
Copyright law has another important feature. Doing those exclusive operations is “by default” illegal, i.e. you need to explicitly obtain permission before you are allowed to do those operations. This means that default mode for any software should be to not do those operations.
So for software, it needs to check that you actually have permission to do those exclusive operations, before they should be allowed. Now all the pirates just want to skip the obtaining the permission -process, but this shouldn’t be allowed even though it makes using software easier to use for the users.
There’s no morals involved in the process of obtaining permission to do those exclusive operations. It just needs some verification steps. This kind of verification steps are the bread and butter of any software developer who designs user interfaces or creates software for end users.
The main argument pirates have is that they need the full flexibility that technology allows instead of the limited view which restricts these illegal operations. But the legal eagles have decided otherwise and the technology folks have no saying on it. Tech folks have very limited view to the functionality of the whole society and there exists many different kinds of people on the society and many of them are not nerds that need full flexibility recardless of legal limits. For end users, it’s safer to have proper limits and restrictions that keep the activity within the limits set by the legal eagles.
So you should change your viewpoint from providing technology to the nerds and criminals, and start building real software that actually makes decisions in the world about what exactly you consider allowed operations. You wouldn’t allow operations that let anyone on the internet delete your hard disk, so why would you allow operations that violate copyright? It simply doesn’t make any sense.
Re: Re: Re:16
But that’s the whole fucking point of all your “every piece of software has to stop all copyright infringement ever” argument: Every piece of software has to have the moral dimension of being able to prevent even the slightest amount of infringement of any and all copyrights from any- and everywhere in the world in perpetuity. Any software that doesn’t do this is, under your copyright ideology, a great moral evil that contributes to the commission of criminal acts.
Amusingly enough, under your ideology, Meshpage would have to be destroyed because you used it to rip off Scott Cawthon. You did it, you admit to doing it, and you can’t raise any defense against that fact under your copyright ideology.
So which is it: Must all software applications stop all possible infringement lest its programmer(s) face the wrath of the law (which would put you and your software straight in the crosshairs of the legal system over your stealing of Scott Cawthon’s shit), or are applications merely non-sentient tools that (like physical tools) have no moral dimension?
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Re: Re: Re:17
This definitely isn’t true. Copyright law is very explicit what operations are exclusive operations that belong to the copyright owners. To repeat it: performing, displaying and distributing the work are among those operations. There’s nothing resembling morals in those definitions. You can just analyze your software data flows and if it allows distributing the material, or if it displays the material on screens anywhere in the world, or if you convert it to a play, those operations just need to be removed from the software or locked behind permission-asking paywalls.
It’s as simple as that. There’s no morals involved.
Re: Re: Re:18
It is. If copyright infringement is a crime—and you’ve always held that it is—under your copyright ideology, all applications have to stop any possible infringement on any and every copyright any- and everywhere in the world in perpetuity. Any application that fails to do so would be aiding in the commission of a moral atrocity—i.e., a crime—and your copyright ideology says the law must punish those who make possible that moral atrocity.
Y’know, like you’d be punished for allowing Meshpage to let you rip off Scott Cawthon.
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Re: Re: Re:19
what is your problem with this statement? are you bad enough pirate that your life would be ruined if you couldn’t pirate hollywood movies? If I designed software that prevented hollywood movies from being displayed, somehow your life would lose meaning? You must be very deep in the pirate criminal organisation if my plan of removing piracy from the world needs to be opposed so much that you’ve spent all year trying to argue against the practice of encoding copyright rules to the application programs.
Re: Re: Re:20
The problem is that by endorsing that statement, you’re saying Notepad++ or Microsoft Word or any other word processor has to kill its primary functionality—i.e., stop being a word processor—on the off-chance that anything anyone types into that word processor infringes on any given copyright from anywhere in the world. You’re saying that any image editor has to keep people from actually editing images in that editor on the chance that someone might open up an image they don’t have the legal right to edit.
By extension, your plan would literally kill every kind of creative endeavour anyone could do with a computer because you’d be killing the primary function of every application that accepts user input—and all for the sake of protecting the copyrights of corporations that would sooner kill you, grind your body into dust, and snort it like cocaine than thank you for being one of their loyal cocksuckers.
And all of that from a guy who couldn’t even stop himself from ripping off Scott Cawthon.
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Re: Re: Re:21
I’ll explain how this will work: originally the technology only supported the piracy use case, i.e. mp4 files allowed freely swapping video files between computers, and hollywood movie business was in huge trouble because of it. When microsoft saw this and wanted to build something better that would protect content owner’s material, they didn’t just lazily implement mp4 file support and call it a day. Instead they built a global file swapping network, linked the video support directly to the camera equipment, thus controlling the video sources so that pirated files were not possible. This system is called skype. The primary functionality of skype isn’t any longer pirating video files, even though their global skype network is doing exactly the same operation. When they controlled the video sources to make the system legal, they built something completely different. The primary functionalty of skype is “video calls” instead of swapping hollywood movie files. This is how the copyright rules are changing the systems. Piracy use cases will disappear and something better will replace those use cases.
Re: Re: Re:22
The primary purpose of any video file format was never “steal Hollywood movies”. The primary purpose of Skype was never “steal Hollywood movies”. (Hell, early versions of Skype couldn’t even do video calls.)
You are functionally insane. You are a menace to this site, to your neighbors, and to the world. You can no longer be saved by touching grass.
Please seek professional psychiatric help.
Re: Re: Re:23
Obvously the original authors do not think their tech will be used for stealing. But unfortunately the world will decide differently if authors do not explicitly protect themselves against misuse. Corruption is commonplace is many parts of the world, simply because good people are not working hard enough to build technology that prevents those corrupt use cases.
Re: Re: Re:24
Knife makers can’t build a knife that can’t be used to murder someone. What the actual fuck makes you think a programmer can make a program that can prevent all “corrupt use cases” when that program can’t tell, without a solution you yourself deemed “impossible”, whether an end user is violating a copyright from somewhere in the entire world? Hell, you couldn’t even program Meshpage to stop you from stealing Scott Cawthon’s stuff!
Please seek immediate and professional psychiatric help.
Re: Re: Re:25
Amazingly this information isn’t needed to get better copyright enforcement in application programs. A generalized 4k file size limit can cure significant amount of copyright infringement without ever detecting if each individual file is illegal. It’s your stupid idea that the copyright test cannot generate any false positives that causes problems. Copyright minimalism is dangerous for this reason, because they don’t accept false accusations of copyright infringement.
Thus no global database of all works on the planet are not needed. The whole database can be removed from the software, when a one-line test that checks properties of the published material can replace the checking of individual files against all works on the planet.
Re: Re: Re:26
You have either directly supported, implied support for, or refused to refute people saying you support the idea of a gigantic database that all programs capable of accepting user input must use to check user input against every copyrighted work in the world. Backing out of your support now that you finally realize the truth of how untenable your idea is? Trying to qualify your support with “okay but 4k is enough data to do a check”? Renouncing the idea because you realize how it would make a criminal out of you for your inability to program Meshpage in a way where a program you said would stop all possible copyright infringement couldn’t even stop you from stealing Scott Cawthon’s shit? None of those will do you any favors here.
You suggested and supported the idea, so you get to own the idea for all time. Deal with it.
Says a lot about you that you do accept false accusations of what you believe is a crime worthy of decades in jail at best and summary execution by the state at worst.
You’ve expressed and endorsed the position that all programs must take every possible step to prevent any and all infringement against any and every copyrighted work in the world. I’m here to put that advocacy to the test with one line:
“It was a dark and stormy night.”
Please answer only “yes” or “no” for each of the following questions:
You wanted to be the face of copyright maximalism. You wanted to openly support the idea that a program that allows even the slightest bit of infringement, even accidental infringement, must explicitly and only be a tool of piracy. You wanted us to agree that any such program should be blinked out of existence or altered so it is functionally useless.
Those are your shitty ideas. Own them, you son of a bitch.
Re: Re: Re:27
You’re the one who always takes these extreme positions that everyone else is just laughing at because they’re so amazingly stupid. You’re like the folks in nazi consentration camp or terrorist from al-queda training center. Basically these extreme positions are not making any favors to you.
Proper rules are never taken into extremes. You can fucking die if you drink too much water based on these extreme position that you’re thirsty.
Re: Re: Re:28
Proper rules? No. Stricter rules, on the other hand, are always taken into extremes by people like you. That’s why you claim that people should be killed for copyright.
Re: Re: Re:28
No, I’m attributing those ideas to you because you have either explicitly stated those ideas, implicitly endorsed those ideas, or refused to say you don’t support those ideas. You never denounced any of the ideas mentioned in this comment section that I’ve said you support—not until this comment section, for some odd-ass reason.
(I mean, you do know we can read all of your past comments, right? Even if they’re flagged, that doesn’t mean they’re deleted. And kid, you forgot that posting with an account means all your comments are attached to your account. You have a history and we can search it.)
Even now, you have yet to refute any of the ideas and positions I say you support. You refused to answer a single question of mine. You failed to say “I don’t think people should be killed for violating a copyright”. You said nothing that would have pushed back against the idea that those outlandish (and sometimes violently extremist) positions are things you support.
Those rules can be made extreme. Did you know that, statistically, the chances of anyone who was alive to witness Michael Jackson perform being alive when the first of his works finally enters the public domain will be 0%? That’s because copyright terms last two lifetimes: The lifetime of the artist and an additional 70 years after the death of the artist. When an artist is dead, there isn’t any actual incentive for the artist to keep making works. That makes support for a post-death copyright something of an extremist position—that is, if you believe copyright is actually about incentivizing the creation of new works instead of being a welfare system for corporations.
For that matter, your support for the long-term jailing and/or execution of copyright infringers is an extremist position. Not even the MPA and the RIAA think jailing anyone but the worst offenders is a viable solution to solving the piracy “problem”, and neither one has ever even come close to suggesting that those worst offenders should be executed. They sued dead grandmothers, for Christ’s sake, and they’re still not as extremist as you are.
You’re the one with the problem if you’re not willing to refute the idea that you hold those extremist positions. I’m only working with exactly what you gave me (and everyone else who has argued with you).
Those extremist ideas are yours. Own them, you son of a bitch.
This sort of effort is why I say copyright should die, and the traditional publishers, labels and studios go the way of ice sellers, after the refrigerator became a domestic appliance.
Re:
The world with no copyright and with only right of attribution: Actual creator writes story, publisher takes it and sells it without attribution. Actual creator sues and publisher pulls out ‘original’ document with date earlier than actual creator published on the Internet because turning back the calendar on PC can be done. Basically, actual creator loses all rights in their work while publishers continue to grow fat. So no, ‘killing copyright’ is not a solution. Any more ill thought out suggestions? If so, please don’t post them here.
Re: Re:
Which would rather have, a world where self publishers may find others also selling their works, or a world in which the traditional publishers control the Internet, and eliminate self publishing on the Internet? The traditional publishers are aiming at the latter, so as to restore their role of determining culture, and keeping most of the income from creative works to themselves.
Bare facts.
How much is really lost to ‘Piracy’?
They are fighting over Pennies.
It would be Pennies if the Audio/video industry Didnt control the Whole of the system. From lighting to the Theaters, and on to TV/CABLE distribution.
But its still Pennies. Most laws regulate the SALE of the pirated goods, Only.
The Biggest thing in all of this, is being PART of the system and Not competing with each other. They Dont compete. They Fight the consumer and Who gets paid, outside the system.
And all of this started in the USA. and is spreading.
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Re:
Currently authors can spend 10 years of their life creating awesome software, only to find out that the market values the end result as $48. At the same time, a pirate site publishing content owner’s radio channels gets enough visitors that the pirates get 300,000 euros when selling adverticements.
If the pirate site didn’t exist, many of those pirating end users would find equivalent legal alternative and those people who spent 10 years of their life creating new products to your consumption wouldn’t need to starve.
Re: Re:
If nobody wants to use your product, that sounds like an issue with the product, not piracy.
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Re: Re: Re:
What innovation aside of pirated streams is there in 107 radio channels?
Re: Re: Re:2
What innovation is in Meshpage that isn’t already provided by Blender, Unity, or even fucking Firefox? And don’t say “it prevents infringement”, because we all know your shit didn’t even stop you from ripping off Scott Cawthon. Which you totally fuckin’ did. (And I will keep reminding you of the fact of your “criminal behavior” in every reply to you until you leave this site for good.)
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Re: Re: Re:3
check my feature list:
https://tpgames.org/Feature_list.txt
maybe you can take your head from the sand and try to read the actual material that I post.
Re: Re: Re:4
How many of those features aren’t in literally any other 3D modelling program, how many of them were supposed to stop you from doing something like ripping off Scott Cawthon, and how many of them are designed to be so user-unfriendly that people will abandon your bullshit for literally any other 3D modelling program?
Re: Re: Re:5
It’s the combination of all those features that isn’t available anywhere else.
The copyright features aren’t listed in the feature-list.
You simply haven’t used the solution properly yet. The learning curve is very small, because all features are working the same way, i.e. once you learn minimum set of practices that allow connecting nodes to other nodes, all features can be used. No further learning curve is needed.
Re: Re: Re:6
Except for learning what each node type does, and when to use it in a model. Its like teaching someone how to use a hammer and chisel is easy, while teaching them make a model that would rank up there with Michelangelo’s David involves a much steeper learning curve,
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Re: Re: Re:7
Well, we expect users can read plain english keywords. Every feature has info label which has information like “translate”, “rotate”, “scale”, which everyone who learned to read could understand. This bit of information is enough to understand what each node is doing.
But maybe your trolls never went to school and didn’t learn to read yet?
good luck doing it with blender.
Re: Re: Re:8
It can be done in Blender and yes there is a steep learning curve to achieving it. There are also lots of videos giving the details of how to do things with Blender, including those on Blenders YouTube channel.
Re: Re: Re:8
Blender and Unity do the same thing. None of this is unique or original to your underpowered, underfunctioning, underdeveloped third-rate pissant software that you think makes you God.
Re: Re: Re:9
So when blender and unity is doing the same thing, you cannot really claim that my technology is inferior to unity/blender when the underlying technology is the same.
Re: Re: Re:10
I can when Unity and Blender go far beyond what Meshpage can do in terms of what your shit can put together. Your software seems barely capable of rendering something WinAMP graphics visualisers could accomplish twenty years ago with likely less power than what your shit-ass program needs to do the same thing. Blender and Unity are your superiors in every conceivable fashion. Your refusal to admit that fact is your problem.
Re: Re: Re:11
I’m pretty sure that YOU cannot do rendering better than winamp, even if you used blender/unity.
Basically jumping to googling results made by professional artists isn’t acceptable, you need to create the material yourself. If you can’t make winamp level graphics with the tools, you need to admit that my tech works better than blender/unity.
This is because I can actually do the winamp level stuff MYSELF. I don’t need to google someone elses thesis to get stuff done, but I can actually create the material myself.
Now it’s your turn. Show us your work. Or shut up.
Re: Re: Re:12
Except it is…
…because I don’t need to make a damn thing to compare the results of your software with the results of Blender, Unity, and any popular alternatives thereof. Your results are weak; their results are peak.
The only person who can’t figure that is you.
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Re: Re: Re:13
Yes, because the tools you advertise are too difficult for YOU to use. Thus I can declare that my technology is working better than unity/blender. Basically one person can more easily do good looking graphics with gameapi builder than what they can do with unity/blender. You just proved it yourself. You don’t need to do anything. This isn’t acceptable answer. You actually need to move your ass and implement something, otherwise we can’t get forward with this discussion. Until we see your attempts at creating 3d graphics, we have no idea how good tools blender/unity actually are, and when the proof does not exist, we should move to tools where the proof actually exists. And my https://meshpage.org web site is enough proof for you, and it was actually created by myself, so your task now is to show what YOU can do.
Re: Re: Re:14
Maybe they are, maybe they aren’t. But seeing as how my laptop is a potato-tier computer that can’t run either Blender or Unity, I’m not about to blow said laptop up in an attempt to run either one. I’ll look at the output of those programs and compare that to the output of your shit instead—and hey, look at that, your shit is shit compared to your
competitorssuperiors.You can declare anything. That doesn’t make it true.
Sure, if you think “good looking graphics” is low-rent CGI that would look out of date even in 1983. And given your backwards-ass thinking on everything else you’ve ever discussed on this site, I can believe you do think that.
Re: Re: Re:15
So you admit the 20 second key event blunder that unity has. I.e. it doesn’t work properly with low-end laptops.
Re: Re: Re:16
Powerful programs require powerful computers; that isn’t a failure of Blender/Unity. Someone owning a low-power computer isn’t the fault of Blender/Unity. If I can’t run either program, I won’t (and shouldn’t) blame Blender/Unity for not catering to my laptop’s specs. What the fuck would be the point?
Re: Re: Re:17
Of course it’s a failure of blender/unity. Their technology doesn’t work in low-end laptops, which means the tech is completely useless for people who own low-end laptops. If they need to externalize their cpu operations to huge concurrent clouds to get renderings done, then maybe the rendering algorithms that they’re using are too heavy and not suitable for ordinary users. The professional rendering market is completely different market than the one gameapi builder is designed for — i.e. children who need to get cool cooling 3d models done.
Re: Re: Re:18
If someone is working with Blender or Unity, chances are they’re not working with a low-end computer of any kind. As I said: Powerful programs require powerful computers. People who need to run powerful programs will use powerful computers. If they can’t, tough shit. ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯
Re: Re: Re:19
So this technology that was supposed to be the next from god has serious limitations recarding hardware support. Maybe some better technology can replace it in that niche area.
Re: Re: Re:20
Yes, and? Lots of games have hardware limitations, too. Powerful applications require powerful hardware; if you can’t afford the hardware needed to run the application, that isn’t the fault of the people who made the application. You can’t sue Blender because your laptop is a piece of shit, kid.
Re: Re: Re:18
This would be a relevant claim had you not already claimed months ago that you were still working on fixing the memory leak issues in Meshpage, and when confronted about this, you insisted that everyone else who disagreed with you needed to get stronger computers. If you claim to not need to upgrade your hardware to run Blender or Unity, what exactly behooves everyone else to get specs just to fit your vanity project?
Children already get their 3D modeling done via Roblox. They’re not going to look for the spaghetti code vomited out by a Finnish has-been still trying to live out his Nokia glory days.
Re: Re: Re:19
So, now the competition isn’t about blender and unity, but you just jumped to something completely different technology. Do you have any idea how large team you’ll get if you combine the teams of blender, unity and roblox together. You think one person is supposed to compete against such large team? Of course those technologies (when working together) you’ll find some features that my builder cannot match. But my tech doesn’t need to replicate or clone their technology. Different technologies are supposed to complement each other’s feature lists instead of plainly replace them. If we just work together with roblox, blender and unity, we can provide brighter future for children of tomorrow. This is a nice place to stop.
Re: Re: Re:20
And since all the other programs besides yours already complement each other’s features, yours is unnecessary. Nobody but you needs Meshpage. Nobody but you wants Meshpage.
You’re the only person who can’t seem to figure that out.
Please seek immediate and professional psychiatric help.
Re: Re: Re:21
You need to contact your lawyer. He can help you get rid of your copyright minimalism ideology.
Re: Re: Re:22
I say this out of concern for you and your mental health: Shut the fuck up and go touch grass for a few years, asshole.
Re: Re: Re:20
You’re going to get a mishmash of people who aren’t familiar with anything outside the platforms they’re already familiar with, which is going to result in a hellish mess of people trying to crossplatform within the same company just to get their projects to work. For what it’s worth, larger organizations tend not to get a lot of work done – at least not as much as you’d think, because the human nature is to let the most skilled people run the operation while everyone else quietly gets along and collects their paychecks. This happens across industries, across companies.
And arguing about large team sizes is meaningless, Tero, because you yourself chose to hate other humans and refuse to work with them. The fact that you have to compete with larger teams is something you chose for yourself. It’s not my business to soothe your hurt feelings or pay you money because you made a dumb decision.
You’ve been arguing that Meshpage is supposed to kick all your competitors out of the water, loosely based on some shoddy copyright pretext, so no, you in fact do not believe that you’re not an intentional replacement.
Considering that Roblox’s environment is rife with copyright and trademark infringement – ultimately unsurprising considering that it’s full of kids replicating popular things – you working together with Roblox is a fantasy not grounded in reality. Never mind that to start with, you’d have to start teaching kids how to use Meshpage, which despite you constantly boasting about how your software is supposed to be kid-friendly, you can’t even do that right.
Re: Re: Re:12
The question isn’t whether a particular individual can get a result with a piece of software, but rather can an artists get a result with the software. Anybody can scribble on paper, but it takes an artists to produce a work that somebody wants to hang of their walls.
Re: Re: Re:8
Also:
Well, if you insist…
Re: Re: Re:6
And if you believe that’s true, I have a bridge in the Sahara you might be interested in buying.
That’s because they either don’t work or don’t exist, since those features didn’t stop you from ripping off Scott Cawthon.
If your “solution” is user-unfriendly to the point where people abandon your program for one that is user-friendly, your “solution” is a bigger problem than what you’re trying to solve.
Re: Re: Re:2
In the UK, we have approximately a third of that number of radio stations on DAB and Freeview alone. Add in internet radio stations playing chart music, internet radio stations playing freely licenced music, and internet ‘radio stations’ such as Spotify as well as podcasts all with original content, the total number is easily more than 107.
Re: Re:
Well, some pirate sites exist, but I still don’t commit copyright inringement of movies. At least, not unless you count buying them pre-owned, leaving the distributer, publisher, et al. as much ‘out of pocket’ as if I’d downloaded them for nothing.
Re: Re:
Which is better than most authors do. Spending time in any creative endeavour is a gamble, with no guarantee of any income.
Re: Re: Re:
It’s still better than the alternative. The horror alternative is that there’s no income AND the technology doesn’t exist.
At least after some effort, the technology exists.
Re: Re: Re:2
And yet, if Meshpage were to disappear from the Internet—much like you disappeared evidence of your infringement of Scott Cawthon’s copyrights—the technology to make 3D models and renders and animations would still exist. Don’t go thinkin’ you’re God when you’re not, son.
Re: Re: Re:3
Key difference is that I actually own the technology. It doesn’t matter one bit if someone else has technology available to do 3d models and renders. The thing that makes the effort worthwhile is that I actually own the underlying technology. Copyright law is a key contributor to this “ownership” feature.
Re: Re: Re:4
So what? It still works worse than Blender and its ilk, and it still didn’t stop you from ripping off Scott Cawthon. Besides you, who fucking cares if you made and own Meshpage when nobody but you is ever going to fucking use it for anything?
Re: Re: Re:5
Ownership bit has other useful properties than getting internet trolls to use it. For example, it can be used to prove that you’re capable of creating large software projects. Anyone who doesn’t have ownership bit available simply cannot get past filters that check for ownership.
It’s not just the download or view count that matters.
Re: Re: Re:6
So what? If that project is outdated or functionally useless to anyone in the same field that project purports to target, your project is worthless. And given that nobody is aching to replace Blender or Unity with Meshpage…well, that about says all that needs saying.
(I mean, other than the fact that you totally stole Scott Cawthon’s shit, bro.)
Re: Re: Re:7
This isn’t true. There isn’t anything in the world that someone has not yet tried to do. While success percentage for those activities are changing over time, and it’s mostly timing whether you have a success in your hands, you can be sure that anything you try to do in the world, there has been projects available on the internet that has done exactly the same thing.
But this doesn’t mean that we should drop dead and stop developing technologies. The old tech gets rotten over time and new technologies are needed to replace the old stuff. And if we don’t spend time to develop those technologies, we soon find out that noone actually bothered to do the stuff that we wanted. And the world is lacking critical technologies that let us build better world.
This building of better world and implementing our dreams is what is the key in technologies like meshpage. Our dream was to enable computers to display 3d. We are so tired of seeing the world end up in 2d panels that 3d technology must be developed. While we originally only manage to do sucky displays that everyone can see are broken beyond repair, without that effort, no new 3d technologies would be possible.
It’s this development of new technologies that you despise. You don’t have problems with copyright, but you simply cannot stand that other people are getting cool results done after years of work. Why didn’t you then try to do the same when you had the chance? Is your dreams so awful that their implementation isn’t possible?
Re: Re: Re:8
It is. Someone making a pixel art–based indie game isn’t going to use MSPaint to make the sprites for that game—they’re going to use something far more full-featured, like Aseprite. By the same token, someone making a 3D model isn’t going to use Meshpage—they’re going to use Blender or Unity or whatever else is available because those programs are both standards in their field and more feature-filled than Meshpage will ever be.
That’s why people continue work on developing Blender and their ilk: They want to improve those programs rather than watch them grow stale. Even if that improvement comes only from new plugins, so be it—that’s still progress.
Your attempts to rewrite the history of 3D modelling software so you come out as a demigod (while offering something so pathetic that no reputable creator in the field of 3D modelling would even think of using) do not create progress in that field.
And that dream was accomplished well before you laid the first line of code for Meshpage. (Did you steal that line of code like you stole Scott Cawthon’s work, you thieving shitbird?)
I’m fine the development of new technology. Your hubris in acting like Meshpage is a gift from God is what I don’t like. Everything your shit can do, Blender can do better—and people who have issues with Blender can access an entire community’s worth of knowledge and skill to work past those issues, whereas Meshpage has only a single deluded asshole who has openly, freely, and joyously admitted to hating literally every other person on the planet in terms of support in case something fucks up with Meshpage.
You’ll never replace Blender or Unity. You’ll never even replace their third-rate knockoffs. When you die, no one will remember you—or your program. And you’re still guilty of copyright infringement.
Now please fuck all the way off back to whatever disease-ridden hellhole you oozed your way out of in the first place, you tenth-rate 4chan reject.
Re: Re: Re:9
I don’t need to replace blender or unity. It’s enough that my technology finds some niche that blender and unity is too busy to handle properly. When the whole world flocks to poke blender’s or unity’s plugins, soon the plugin repository is in such awful mess that noone can find anything useful from it.
When the whole world is “developing” blender/unity, I can develop my technology to fullfil those needs that the popular tools are too busy to handle. They simply have too many cooks in their projects that they cannot handle all the requirements in the world, and that gives opportunity to projects like meshpage.
It’s your problem that you’ve already decided (without looking at the actual technology) that my tech is somehow completely useless and I should drop dead and flee to a troll cave. This isn’t necessary. I can slowly build techniques and fix deficiencies in the technology until something fails in blender that they cannot fix, and then meshpage will be the next popular technology that overtakes the crown. But it’ll take some time before blender hits those tech limits.
Re: Re: Re:10
Given how (by your own admission!) you’re the only person in the world who uses Meshpage, your program has no niche to fill. Whatever niches it could have filled (if it wasn’t so shitty) are already filled by already-existing alternatives to Blender and Unity. Face it, kid: Nobody but you wants to use your shitty program because everything else is already light years ahead of where your shit is in every way that matters to everyone but you.
The only person who can’t figure that out is you.
Re: Re: Re:11
You don’t understand that authors of blender and unity are busy people. They simply don’t have time to implement your requirements. While they try their best, the 24 hour day simply doesn’t have enough time available for all the software development that world is demanding them to do. Thus it’s unlikely that you get your requirements implemented by authors of blender or unity.
GameApi builder has significantly smaller user base, and this gives significant flexibility in handling specific customer requirements.
This is another way how gameapi builder beats those popular works.
Re: Re: Re:12
What the fuck are you talking about? You’re the one who keeps saying they have to kill primary functionality for the sake of protecting copyrights.
Then why is everyone using literally every other program but yours to make games? 🤔
Re: Re: Re:13
I never said you need to kill any functionality. It just needs to be placed behind paywall. That’s far cry from actually killing the functionality. There will be certain additional steps for users to get proper permissions from original authors.
Re: Re: Re:14
No, you’ve said in the past that programs that offer any method of infringing upon copyright must hinder or completely disable that method of user input in order to not be considered a tool of infringement. For programs like Blender or Notepad++—or even your own Meshpage, which let you to steal Scott Cawthon’s shit without stopping you—that means hindering or disabling their primary functionality.
That’s your stance. You’ve never denied it until now. I’m left to wonder why.
Re: Re: Re:15
well, it doesn’t really work that way. The software need to work differently based on who is actually using the software. When authors/copyright owners are using the software, it needs to allow the exclusive operations reserved for copyright owners. But when 3rd parties or pirates are using those same features, it must prevent the features completely.
Copyright ownership is kinda exclusive club where you have more flexibility in what you can do. To enter the club, you just need to create something yourself.
Re: Re: Re:16
And yet, you claim it must work that way to protect copyrights.
How can a program know the difference between the two sides? How can a program account for Fair Use/Dealing if, say, someone uses Photoshop to make a meme? How can a program know, with the absolute and unyielding certainty of God Herself, whether someone is using that program for a moral evil—the fineable, jailable, and even execution-worthy crime of copyright infringement (as per your expressed copyright ideology)—or “protected” activity without cutting off all its primary functionality every time someone starts it up?
Re: Re: Re:17
There’s feature called “user identity management”, i.e. what google calls “google openid” or facebook/twitter logins. This allows identifying users.
It has several benefits. The platforms will know their customers better. If some customer keep pirating with the account, the account can be blocked and piracy use case prevented. But it also gives content owners permission to do exclusive operations reserved for copyright owners.
Re: Re: Re:18
To a program, data is data—it can’t inherently know whether that data infringes on someone else’s copyrights (like the way you infringed on Scott Cawthon’s). The only way the program can know for sure is to actively search a database of all copyrighted works from around the world as the user inputs data into the program. But even you’ve admitted in this very comments section that such a “solution” is impossible.
So I ask you: How can a program know, on its own without any human interference, whether the user in question—regardless of any “verification”—is or isn’t using that program for infringement purposes?
Re: Re: Re:19
Two steps are needed:
1) Check whether a copy was produced
2) Check if user has/has not permission from the copyright owner
Basically it’s the responsibility of the user of the material to find authorized representative of the author of the material before using someone else’s work. And when you want to duplicate the work, copies are natually being created.
Re: Re: Re:20
Please seek immediate and professional psychiatric help.
Re: Re: Re:20
Something which computers are currently incapable of doing absent an exhaustive database of every single work ever produced by man.
Something which computers cannot do without access to an exhaustive database of all licensing deals and permissions for every single copyrighted work every produced by man.
Seriously, computers still struggle with being able to tell whether or not a given image contains a bird. There is no way for them to be able to tell a copy from the original, who owns the copyright, what is fair use/dealing, what permissions have been given, etc.
Re: Re: Re:21
This isn’t true. Analyzing the data flow of your software application, it is possible to detect if the application is doing a copy of the material. It’s just reading the software source code.
This isn’t true. It doesnt need to know all licensing deals done since newton invented his theory of gravity. Only thing needed is information about licensing of that particular piece of copyrighted work. And if your software is unsure about where to find the information, you can ask the users.
Computers have this awesome feature that when computer is missing important piece of information needed for some calculation, it can ask questions from the users. For example, if I have equation a+b+c=10, to solve the equation, you need two of the a,b,c to be decided for exact numeric values, so if a=3, b=6, then computer can actually calculate value for c=1. The computer simply cannot know these a=3, b=6 values unless some programmer or user enters the values to the computer. While c=1 can be inferred from the equation, it simply cannot be known until values for a and b are available.
Especially, you don’t need to enumerate all possible values for a and b. There’s infinite number of possibilities, and their enumeration runs into significant problems like you encountered with your copyright story.
But if you realize that a+b+c=10 is the same equation that people who build houses are using to position a window or a door to a house’s wall, and you consider that everyone who built a house would need a infinite/global database of a and b values, your claim is basically that it’s impossible to calculate a position for a window to a house. If this is the case, it’s impossible build houses at all. Given that houses exist and most of them even have windows and doors, your requirement for global database of a and b values must be invalid. Same analysis works for the copyright story. QED.
Re: Re: Re:22
Yes, that’s what a database is. A compilation of user input. Until you have that database your software is incomplete.
I get that you have a vested interest in claiming that a database isn’t necessary. But the house building analogy does not prove the proof you claim it proves:
No one in engineering or construction is going to claim that a potential infinite combination of walls, doors, windows etc makes construction of houses impossible. On the other hand, considering that someone has attempted to sue over house construction because of copyright infringement, if suing over construction-based copyright infringement became the norm, then not having a database of house designs would make it nigh impossible to avoid committing copyright infringement, because anyone could make a claim that any design infringes copyright. You know… just like your copyright troll friends who are now sitting in jail.
Re: Re: Re:23
The db s not needed in this case because you can avoid the copyright owner’s exclusive operations: perform, display, distribute. Those operations are simply not needed to build a house.
Re: Re: Re:24
You’d think they wouldn’t be needed, and in fact, most rational people would not think so. But the fact remains, someone did indeed try to demand that houses be demolished and the builders be fined because they supposedly infringed on the copyright of another house’s design. You might not think copyright applies, but thanks to idiots like you trying to put “stricter copyright” into everything, and insist that everyone preemptively prevent potential infringements, you get silly lawsuits like that.
Maybe you should consider crawling back into your mother’s womb, after all she didn’t hold the copyright on having a baby, and you want to observe stricter copyright laws don’t you? It’s not innocent infringement either. She clearly knew what she was doing when she shat out a 50-year-old baby like you.
Re: Re: Re:25
If you don’t want to see your house demolished:
1) don’t build it to a swamp
2) make sure the base is solid
3) ensure that water doesn’t get in
4) insects should be far away
5) no rats
6) bears and honey should be kept far away
7) fence should keep neighbors far
8) should get all necessary permits from govt
9) designs should respect other people’s copyright
see the rule about copyright isn’t any different than other rules that house builders need to follow.
Re: Re: Re:26
Copyright is not a safety issue, no matter how desperately you wish it to be. And again, respecting copyright doesn’t protect you from being sued by trolls looking to make an easy buck, just like your friends Malibu Media – who came very close to getting arrested for their copyright abuse, I’ll add for the umpteenth time, so it’s only a matter of time before you join their ranks.
Re: Re: Re:26
The difference being that 1-7 are straightforward and you can easily look up all the necessary regulations for 8, while 9 requires you to know every single design for a home that currently exists.
Re: Re: Re:27
There’s easier way: you could actually create it yourself from scratch. Then it’s guaranteed it’s different from standardized home design.
Re: Re: Re:28
Only if you have never seen or lived in a house before you make your design, which also means you do not know what a bathroom or kitchen is.
Re: Re: Re:29
Tero has this fascinating assumption that says you will never be sued for violating copyright if you work from scratch and have no inspiration at all. It’s something that the strictest of copyright fanatics have insisted every time they try to force everyone into a new law: “Obey the law and you’ll be fine.” Of course, what they don’t mention is that inspiration doesn’t happen in a vacuum, and in the event of independent invention, copyright maximalists don’t even allow for innocent infringement claims. Hell, they ignore the fact that in order to not infringe, you’d have to know what you’re not allowed to do. It’s at this point you realize that they’re not looking for diverse creativity, just more suckers to fleece.
Re: Re: Re:30
If you have copyrighted a number sequence 10,20,30,40 then to build something without violating copyright of that sequence, you just need to do something else, for example 10,10,40,40 is good enough sequence and guaranteed to not violate copyright of the original sequence.
In practice, such short sequences only have very limited copyright protection, because they’re so short. Longer sequences copyright gets stronger because its easier to find unique copyrightable material if there is large amount of material in the copyrighted work.
If we discount blatant copying, it’s extreamly difficult to come up with clone of someone elses copyrighted work. The probability of that happening by accident during the lifetime of the universe is approaching zero.
Re: Re: Re:31
In reality, copyright enforcers have sued for such short sequences.
In other words, you blatantly, intentionally infringed on Scott Cawthon’s work.
Re: Re: Re:32
nope, There’s still my LICENSE-defense which you haven’t considered at all.
Re: Re: Re:33
Which your stricter copyright rules ignore. You’re still very much liable.
Re: Re: Re:28
There is still the risk of accidental copying.
Re: Re: Re:22
Uh, no. A computer literally cannot tell the difference between a copy and the original unless the original had something that prevented perfect copies from being made, which is not the case for most files. You’re talking nonsense here. Either way, the computer would need something to compare against to know that it was a copy.
And the users are absolutely capable of lying and claiming to be the original authors or having a license if you don’t have a database of the works to compare against or something.
And the users are more than capable of lying about the answers. You still need to have some way of verifying the answers.
Uh, no. I don’t even understand this comparison, but that’s not at all what I’m saying. I’m saying there’s no way to verify that the user is being honest or that something is a copy or the original without a global database. You need some reference point. For windows in a house, the reference point is the design, and there is no reason you would ever expect someone to fake the design or something. You simply cannot assume that with regards to copyright or licensing.
You have failed to even present a reason why your scenario is in any way analogous to copyright, so I have no reason to accept this statement as fact.
Re: Re: Re:16
That’s a whole lot of text just to say “I didn’t mean it like that because you proved me wrong”.
This is something that copyright fans and enforcers have consistently failed to accomplish – including you.
Re: Re: Re:6
You don’t have to be ignorant to be a copyright maximalist, but it clearly helps! 😂
Re: Re: Re:6
The copyright owner being a troll makes it probable that Meshpages is a troll of those interested in 3d modelling.
Re: Re: Re:4
Copyright law is a key contributor to this “ownership” feature.
Actually, making something yourself or purchasing it from someone else is required for ownership. Copyright only gives you a time-limited monopoly on copying and allowing others to do so. But then, you are a maximalist, which is why you probably don’t understand how copyright actually works.
Re: Re: Re:
I found an article today on newsfeed that says that our friends Malibu Media also had the same $48 problem in their web site… this article says that their primary income was coming from the lawsuits, and not from their actual web site which should be the actual business:
https://torrentfreak.com/wrongfully-accused-pirate-recoups-108k-from-copyright-troll-220510/
Looks like legal web site operations are all in big problems with money. There’s 2 billion web sites on the planet, so adding one more site to the collection has only very tiny chances of success, and many authors, including Malibu Media has found that the web properties are not generating enough money to keep the activity profitable. So everyone who creates web sites will need to find additional sources of income and that activity seems like significant phenomenon in current computer environment. Free software also had the same problem, and anyone doing free software need to get income from some other ways.
Of course Malibu Media only found lawsuits as their additional income, which might not be the best course of action.
Re: Re: Re:2
Their actual business was the lawsuits, you goddamned dipshit.
Re: Re: Re:2
Yeah, it turns out when you sue the innocent, refuse to show evidence proving otherwise, ignore the judge’s orders to pay up, and go on a lengthy tirade about how the judge wouldn’t let you break the law, you tend to lose. But going by how you refer to Malibu Media as your “friends”, I suspect the only thing stopping you from outright cheering on their harassment is your terrible grasp of the English language.
Re: Re: Re:2
…our friends Malibu Media…
Your friends, not mine. Just because I’m a copyright owner doesn’t mean I’m in bed with copyright trolls, unlike you.
Re: Re: Re:3
This is already extreame position that makes you copyright maximalist. The other camp would never create any copyrighted works because they think authors, copyright owners and copyrighted products are not worth their support.
Re: Re: Re:4
This might surprise you, but it is possible to produce something, own the copyright to it, and not be a raging, psychotic asshole like you.
Re: Re: Re:5
you just did not produce enough of it. After 100 million copies, you’ll be as good as I am.
Re: Re: Re:6
What if they didn’t want to produce “enough”, whatever you think that means? What if they didn’t care about whether they profited from their copyrighted work, so long as the work was published for people to see?
You bitch about “copyright minimalists”, but your own extremist thinking leads you to believe owning a copyright to a work requires the owner to be a copyright extremist for some unknown (and likely insane) reason.
Please seek immediate and professional psychiatric help.
Re: Re: Re:6
Two problems with that statement – for one thing, Meshpage doesn’t have a hundred million copies. For another, you’re a fucking terrible copyright owner. I copywrite as part of my job scope among other office duties and I earn far more than $48 a year. Ah, but of course you’re going to say something like “You must have been slacking on the job” or “It’s not copyright so it doesn’t count”. Just like the last time you did.
Fuck, but you are a waste of space and Finland’s resources.
Re: Re: Re:7
guess meshpage isn’t the only thing I spent my time on…
You can get stuff done, if you just raise your ass from the sofa and stop spitting to the ceiling.
Re: Re: Re:8
Which you would cite and point out if it was anything significant. But no, the only thing you’ve ever shilled on your website or here is Meshpage. Nothing about your past, nothing about your credentials, just wild claims about how you and Meshpage are going to rape everyone for copyright money. And yet everyone here but you can leverage themselves to make more than $48 a year. You’re a joke, Tero, and not even the good kind you’d put on a meme.
Re: Re: Re:9
Yes. This is because government promised that if I work hard to create copyrighted works, the copyright law will ensure that compensation will also appear. Now the reality is grim, after almost 10 years of work, we’ve seen $48, of which only $2 is real copyright money and $46 is some “teaching idiots to use emscripten -gig”. It’s either that you can’t trust promises by the government or the money will simply appear sometime in the future. I’m going for the future, since I haven’t yet lost trust to the government’s promises.
Re: Re: Re:10
I highly doubt that they said it like that, but even if they did, that would be a completely unrealistic promise, likely not meant literally, and you should have realized that by now.
Or that it was the usual exaggeration. Or that you misunderstood what was said.
Seriously, have you ever once even considered that the government might not have meant what you thought it said? Or that the promise was obviously unrealistic and never going to happen?
I’m reminded of the guy who saw that commercial where you exchange Pepsi points for various prizes and thought that if he actually got 1 million Pepsi points, he’d get a private jet.
Re: Re: Re:10
The most payoff this sort of “promise” would give you is an assurance that if anyone is found or caught infringing on Meshpage’s copyright, you’d be able to sue them for copyright infringement – and that’s according to the rules of your government, not the “stricter copyright rules” garbage you’ve been demanding that everyone else follow, and have publicly admitted are intentionally impossible to follow. What copyright law will not do is force people to become your customers.
This has been explained to you multiple times. It’s not the government’s responsibility to prop up your failing business.
Again, considering that Meshpage is still free to download, it’s perturbing where this $2 “real copyright money” even came from. I can only surmise that it’s a reference to your shoddy tech demos on itch.io, which – again – goes to show that ad revenue is generally a poor source for money. It’s honestly hilarious that the way you’ve made your money is mostly by teaching other people how to script, and you can’t even follow up on that, purely because you have such a sociopathic and hateful view of other humans.
If you think you can sincerely believe everything any government says, not just your own, you are blissfully unaware. Which all things considered, isn’t surprising.
You call people idiots, and have yet to receive the compensation you think the government owes you (hint: it genuinely doesn’t), and yet you’d still rather believe the fictional government in your head. Sure, keep going for that. You’ve already said that your business strategy is in for the long haul. I’ll also note that you didn’t say that you weren’t going to rape everyone in the name of copyright, so my guess is the government arrests you for violent sexual harassment before you see them give you a single cent.
Re: Re: Re:11
Who actually got raped when the markets valued 10 years of my life as worth $48? Is this somehow huge ripoff from my customer’s bank accounts? Is dollar so valuable nowadays that $48 is what you get from 10 years of work?
Re: Re: Re:12
You chose to make your software free to download and free to use. You intentionally priced it at $0. You didn’t get raped, you just made a silly business decision that you’re now regretting.
And for what it’s worth, nobody believes that you’ve only made $48 over ten years. You might have made $2 from ad revenue at itch.io, and $46 from giving someone a crash course in some programming language – an experience which you openly hate, and called you student in that case an idiot – but either Finland’s welfare system is that good or you clearly have an alternative source of income. The idea that you spent 10 years to generate only $48, of which $46 had nothing to do with Meshpage, is a sad attempt at a moral panic. You’re desperately trying to frame this as a moral failure, when really it’s about you demanding free money and getting angry why you haven’t got it.
You have no customers. You personally boasted that this was an intentional, integral part of your business strategy to avoid copyright infringement. If you have no customers, it’s not my obligation to give you money.
In some Third World countries? Yes. But you think that anyone else who makes more than that is a liar and a slacker, once again betraying your own low opinion about everyone else other than you. You don’t think we’re humans. You don’t see us as anything other than wallets on prostitute legs. You don’t think of other humans as good for anything beyond paying you and sucking your cock. Why the hell should I give money to a person whose services I don’t even use, and is an irreparably obnoxious, self-serving, egotistical douchebag?
Re: Re: Re:4
You do realize there are positions between copyright minimalism and copyright maximalism, right?
Re: Re: Re:5
He does, but Tero is the sort of fuckwad who believes that any position that isn’t copyright maximalism is beneath his superior intellect.
copyright holders don,t like fair use ,see youtube 3 hour videos, get dmca takedowns over 3 seconds of music, classic music in the public domain gets dmca takedown notices from sony and other music companys.This eu asks the impossible block all infringing content, music,audio,video while leaving up all legal user uploads, theres no easy solution to this .stakeholders do not seem to include artists, singers, small creators, or public representatives
this law is a direct attack on free speech and fair use in the eu
Re:
In reality publishers do not like fair use, except when they are doing it. I think this is because allowing for fair use makes finding actual infringement is much more difficult and expensive exercise, and it eliminates the automation of filters as an infringement blocker.
Re:
Good news is the ruling has put alot of limits on internet filters.
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Re:
the trick is that the same file might be legal if posted by the original author and illegal if posted by some 3rd party, and the filter must not block the legal case even if 3rd parties have already been found infringing on the same material. Basically the platforms need to know their customers and detect who is the original author and then allow uploads by the authors and block all 3rd parties.
Re: Re:
And how does an algorithm tell the difference between a legitimately created original copy and it’s clone? Answer me that one if you can.
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Re: Re: Re:
Maybe check the copyright notice attached to the work and compare it with the user identification collected by the platform? Since removal of copyright notices is illegal and inputting false user indentification is also illegal, the practice will work correctly.
If the work does not contain copyright notice, google search can find all places where the work is located in the internet, and check if the neighbouring web pages have copyright notice attached to the work.
Re: Re: Re:2
Maybe check the copyright notice attached to the work and compare it with the user identification collected by the platform? Since removal of copyright notices is illegal and inputting false user indentification is also illegal, the practice will work correctly.
Like I said: clone. Meaning that the copy has absolutely identical information to the original, including any copyright notices. Again, explain how an algorithm is supposed to detect the difference.
Re: Re: Re:3
You’ll have to forgive Tero. He programs a shitty-ass 3D modelling app than he thinks will somehow revolutionize the world in ways Blender and its ilk hasn’t already done, then uses his free time to troll this website with extremist copyright bullshit in a pathetic search for attention.
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Re: Re: Re:4
Yes. It has all the features that 3d engine will ever need. While rest of the world is struggling to get one game or one application or one feature implemented, I refused to do that. Instead I implemented all the significant features that are possible within emscripten sandbox. This means, you haven’t yet seen anything. It just scratches the surface of what is possible with my engine.
While significant features are on the pipeline, the customers are complaining that the solution is too complicated. The trolls on techdirt failed to get a cube to the screen with the technology, simply because they cannot handle the complexity of the technology. So we’re currently working to enable the full power of the technology, in sandboxes with significantly simpler user interface. One such attempt to simplify the technology is at https://meshpage.org/view.php
Now that you’ve seen the 3d model viewer, you’ll just have to stare the beauty of the software solution. Complicated bullshit inside, but beautiful and simple user interface outside.
Re: Re: Re:5
You have no customers. I’d tell you to stop lying, but lying is what you consistently do. It’s the one thing you have clinging to relevance.
Re: Re: Re:6
@terop:
Poisoning the well would be impossible with our software, given that it’s impossible for ordinary users to copy the software or the animations.
Well, if it’s impossible for users to download your software, no wonder nobody uses it! 😀
Re: Re: Re:7
It’s available in meshpage.org:
1) https://meshpage.org/meshpage.php?p=4
2) https://meshpage.org/gameapi_display.zip
How exactly are these impossible to download?
Re: Re: Re:8
If it’s impossible to copy, as you assert, then nobody can download it. You do know how downloading works, right?
Re: Re: Re:9
This isn’t true. Browsers have security features which prevent copying (to outside of browser process), but browser itself is able to download the material and display it to users. Copying still does not need to be provided for the users, even though downloading is allowed. Downloading the material does not mean that you get standalone files which you can freely distribute around the internet.
Re: Re: Re:10
You mean like the save page menu item of Firefox, which save a copy of a web page and its parts to the users computer, for offline viewing latter.
Re: Re: Re:10
Oh, son, they, uh…they really don’t. No browser can 100% prevent the copying or download of text, video, audio, or other kinds of files. I have a shitload of text files with material copypasted from dozens upon dozens of online sources, and no browser has ever stopped me from doing that.
Hell, your software supposedly has those features, and it still couldn’t stop you from stealing Scott Cawthon’s shit, you fuckin’ thieving bastard.
Re: Re: Re:11
This isn’t true. The web servers control carefully that users cannot download .php files. There’s two techniques designed to fullfil this requirement: 1) it actually executes the .php file, and gives you the output of that execution instead of actual source code 2) the server controls access to the filesystem enough that web users cannot access the source code of .php files.
Re: Re: Re:12
Oh, but it is. People might not be able to download certain kinds of files, but they can download the output displayed by those files—and that is often enough. I mean, can Firefox actually prevent you from copying my comments and pasting them into a word processor like Notepad++? You’d be the first to have ever discovered that (non-existent) functionality, champ!
Re: Re: Re:12
Which has nothing to do with browser security. If someone wanted to the can make a PHP file downloadable by a browser.
Re: Re: Re:12
The web servers control carefully that users cannot download .php files.
Well, the first time I tried to download Dowload This Song, what should have been a WAV file became a PHP one. If web servers actively prevent the downloading of such files, then how did that happen? You know, you’d do a hell of a lot better in this debate if you began talking out of your mouth instead of your arse.
Re: Re: Re:12
Oh, you most certainly can. This is quite trivial in some cases. Sure, you could implement something in the .php file to prevent it from working properly, but the file can absolutely be downloaded if the website owner doesn’t secure it. Also, this has nothing to do with browsers implemented any sort of protection.
First, this doesn’t prevent the output from being copied, so who cares?
Second, you can still find the .php files and download them if they aren’t secured by the server containing them.
None of this supports your claims about the browser. That’s the server.
Re: Re: Re:10
🤦🏻♂️ Not this shit again…
I’ve already explained to you—in great detail—that this is completely wrong. Absolutely no browser that I have ever seen implements such copy-protection. It is absolutely trivial to use basic copy-paste tools included with the browser to copy text and paste it somewhere else and to save images to your computer, and they also include the option to save web pages.
Furthermore, when the browser downloads anything, it does so by creating a copy and putting it on your computer. Downloading is literally copying. And once something has been downloaded, the user has access to the files that have been downloaded, allowing them to make further copies. In some cases, those files may contain DRM to prevent copying or to affect the results of copying or something, but that’s not present in images or text files and has to be specifically enabled by the creator of the files for anything else. And if the file isn’t readonly, then the user can modify its metadata (like copyright information), and any programs won’t know the difference.
Re: Re: Re:11
You still do not need to allow freely copying the files that are being downloaded. When you never give the actual files to user’s management responsibility, the user cannot copy the files either. In this way, while browser downloads megabytes of data to memory temporarily only to be deleted by back key press, the files are never allowed to be further copied. Temporary and cached copies are explicitly allowed by copyright laws.
Re: Re: Re:12
Not according to the RIAA, up until the technology was explained to them – and even then, they regard such issues begrudgingly. It turns out your RIAA friends really aren’t interested in following the law as soon as it gets in the way of them suing grandmothers for easy cash.
Re: Re: Re:13
You’ve found significant feature of copyright maximalism. You actually need to listen what other authors are saying in the marketplace. if RIAA doesn’t subscribe with some rule that you think is obviously true, you need to decide which situations RIAA’s position is more important than your own. Copyright maximalists can jump from one author to another when considering these issues, depending on context, sometimes RIAA/MPAA position is strong enough story that their wishes need to be respected.
And other times, RIAA is just not going to have any voice. But it depends on context.
Re: Re: Re:14
So for all your RIAA worship, even you can’t be bothered to respect them when you think following their demands would be inconvenient? Your obvious hypocrisy aside, this is precisely why nobody respects what you think about copyright. If whether or not the rules of copyright apply purely because you or the RIAA think, that is a clear potential for abuse. And it was, indeed, heavily abused, after a son of one of the RIAA members was found guilty of downloading music illegally but never punished for it. Why would anyone follow a law that is only ever applied when its enforcers feel like it, and used so often to go after the impoverished?
Re: Re: Re:15
Copyright infringement has always been a crime. But police have no resources to investigate and given that copyright owners are supposed to benefit from the investigations, its content owner’s responsibility to dig proof for copyright violations. When many content owners just decide to not procecute the pirates, there’s huge underground activity of pirates who got lucky with their choice of copyright owner. But given that its anyway against the law, the progress of science and useful arts and law’s slowly moving hand will eventually reach those pirates.
Re: Re: Re:16
False. Most copyright infringement is a civil matter, not criminal. The idea of copyright infringement ever being a crime is actually relatively new.
Re: Re: Re:16
Copyright infringement is largely civil in nature. There is such a thing as criminal copyright infringement, but that’s not the standard you copyright fanatics use, because that would require actual proof instead of the randomly generated numbers you keep trying to submit as evidence.
Murders, rapes, and other violent crimes tend to take precedence over your power fantasies.
The truth is that most investigations don’t end up with payments made to the copyright holders. The IFPI’s case against the Pirate Bay had the money given to the IFPI to continue other lawsuits, which to date have not yielded similar levels of success. HADOPI’s few fines have only been used to pay its personnel. Money from investigations almost never make it into the pockets of the people they’re claimed to benefit.
Ask anyone who’s paid for a DVD or a Blu-ray, and they’ll tell you they’ve found that the legal content they’ve purchased have become incompatible with official hardware, or inundates them with antipiracy technology that makes the experience worse. Pirates have had minimal issues. Sci-Hub has provided a cheaper alternative for actual science and progress to be done because academic publishers insist on pricing everybody else out of the market.
Science and progress will happen, just not in the way you desperately hope because it vindicates your darkest fantasies of riches and power. It happens because actual people are decent, and largely ignore power-mad sociopaths like you who treat everyone else as wallets on legs.
Re: Re: Re:17
The law requires that the pirates do have issues. Basically access to the pirated material is forbidden, if the author of the material isn’t widely enough available to provide permissions to use the content.
This means that when pirates are avoiding these issues, they’re working against the law.
They should be creating the same material themselves instead of using someone else´s work.
The entities that are being pushed away from the science market do not have necessary resources to do proper science and their involvement in science market is only causing damage since they are unable to finish their research for lack of funds.
Re: Re: Re:18
And they have a pretty terrible track record on that. The Sony CD rootkit case punished everyone who legally purchased a music CD by infecting their computers. Pirates had no such problems, and in fact piracy singlehandedly saved everyone from the invasive methods of copyright law. Of course, I imagine you’d think that copyright enforcement at any cost is acceptable, but you’re a freakshow who thinks Russia invaded Ukraine over copyright.
If an author chooses not to make their work available, I have very little sympathy if they proceed to make less money from it afterwards.
When the RIAA is finally punished for all the stock photographs they used without permission instead of creating the photographs themselves, I’ll care. Since they haven’t, I’ll call out the entire copyright enforcement industry out for their blatant hypocrisy on the matter.
These “entities” as you put it are doing entirely proper science. What happens is that publishers and universities put them through extremely predatory practices that force them to pursue citations just to get mentioned or accredited. The reality is that expensive subscriptions are demanded just to cite a few lines in a journal of over several hundred pages. Under fair use, that’d be legal, but thanks to nutjobs like you it’s become needlessly cumbersome and expensive. To the point where even mature economies like Taiwan and Germany are choosing to opt out of partnerships with expensive publishers. These aren’t “pirates”. These are entire countries getting priced out because of greed.
Re: Re: Re:19
If your country has no funds to run gadgets like LHC, they cannot really do proper science.
Re: Re: Re:20
Not every scientific endeavor needs a LHC. You keep wanting to price everything from programming to technology out of the reach of the average person, then bitch about why they’re not paying your exorbitant asking price. You chose to price yourself out of the market.
Re: Re: Re:12
You made a claim that the browsers prevent copying. As the programmer, you can put in DRM or security measures to prevent such a thing, but the browsers don’t have them.
But the user can choose to archive whatever gets downloaded, and the browser can’t do anything about it. If it gets downloaded to the user’s machine, there’s nothing stopping them from making copies.
Yes. As part of fair use or fair dealing.
Re: Re: Re:13
Shhhh. You’re not allowed to say fair use. Tero doesn’t like that, remember.
Re: Re: Re:5
While rest of the world is struggling to get one game or one application or one feature implemented, I refused to do that.
And yet no one’s yet used your 3D engine, whereas Unity not only features in oodles of Android and iOS games, Disney used it in the making of the CGI version of The Lion King. If your engine’s so much better than unity, how did that happen?
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Re: Re: Re:6
Last time I’ve seen unity was when it ran on my laptop like a turtle. Basically key event response was slower than 20 seconds if you even enabled few plugins. This kind of behaviour would never be accepted in my engine.
Re: Re: Re:7
If Unity runs like a turtle on your laptop, then maybe you should update your laptop. I have personal experience of Unity running smoothly on Android 6.0, and the stable release is six years old in October.
Re: Re: Re:8
Give Tero some time, he’ll then move to claiming that Unity committed copyright infringement to get to where they are now. Or something along the like.
Re: Re: Re:7
“Last time I’ve seen unity was when it ran on my laptop like a turtle”
Yes, we’ve already established that your competence and knowledge of how to get a program working is on the level of your competence with marketing – i.e. virtually non-existent.
The question isn’t why Unity won’t work properly on your shitty laptop with the edited plugins you randomly installed (IIRC). The question is why you’re the only person so incompetent as to be experiencing this, while other people are using it to create billion dollar movies with no problems.
Hint: the problem is not Unity.
Re: Re: Re:8
I didn’t randomly install plugins. It was a coding competition where the organizers wanted everyone to use their new plugin. I didn’t decide the technology choices. Your blame assignment is pointing to wrong person.
The point is, unity cannot handle even a simple coding competition without struggling to handle key events properly. The real problem is that it allows plugins to add heavy operations to the key event callback. That’s always a mistake.
Re: Re: Re:9
No, your shit-ass computer can’t handle Unity. Don’t blame the software for your bad hardware—it’s like blaming the place where you downloaded the Springtrap model for your copyright infringement.
Re: Re: Re:10
Well, then unity is broken. My builder tool has no such problems, so at least we found a niche where builder tool beats unity 10:0.
Re: Re: Re:11
Your tool isn’t nearly as powerful as Unity, then. Which means that nobody but you will want to use it—even if they, like you, want to rip off Scott Cawthon’s copyrighted material.
Re: Re: Re:12
After all this complaining, you need to admit that my technology is powerful enough to display Scott Cawthon’s copyrighted works.
This is still better than what proof you have for unity. Basically we currently cannot know if unity is able to display the material. Probably not, but we wouldn’t know until you actually try it.