New Yorker’s Famed Fact Checking Crew Apparently Unaware Of The 1st Amendment?

from the it's-literally-the-1st-amendment dept

The New Yorker magazine is famous for its fact checking effort. Indeed, the New Yorker itself has written multiple pieces about how ridiculously far its fact checking team will go. And when people want to present the quintessential example of how “fact checking” should work, they often point to The New Yorker. Of course, I don’t doubt that the magazine does more of a form of fact checking than most any other publication out there, but that doesn’t mean they’re necessarily that good at it. Remember, it once published an article that heavily implied that a game I helped create to better understand the role of technology in elections, was actually created by a billionaire nonsense peddler to relive the glory of influencing elections.

Anyway, recently, the New Yorker had a provocatively titled article, How Congress Can Prevent Elon Musk from Turning Twitter Back into an Unfettered Disinformation Machine, by John Cassidy. I clicked with interest, because while I don’t want Twitter to turn into an “unfettered disinformation machine,” I even more strongly don’t want Congress determining what speech is allowed on any website — and I’m pretty sure that the 1st Amendment means that Congress can’t prevent Musk from turning Twitter back into an unfettered disinformation machine. If he wants to, he absolutely can. And there’s nothing Congress can or should do about it, because if it can, then it can also do that for any other media organization, and we have the 1st Amendment to stop that.

Bizarrely, Cassidy’s article doesn’t even mention the 1st Amendment. Instead, it points to the (already extremely problematic) Digital Services Act in the EU, which is taking a very paternalistic approach to content moderation and internet website regulation. It is a sweepingly different approach, enabling governments to demand the removal of content.

Regulating content in a manner consistent with protecting free speech may be a trickier proposition, but the E.U. has just provided a road map for how it could be done: by putting the onus on social-media companies to monitor and remove harmful content, and hit them with big fines if they don’t. The Digital Services Act is “nothing short of a paradigm shift in tech regulation,” Ben Scott, the executive director of the advocacy group Reset, told the Associated Press. “It’s the first major attempt to set rules and standards for algorithmic systems in digital media markets.”

Musk would surely object to the U.S. adopting a regulatory system like the one that the Europeans are drawing up, but that’s too bad. The health of the Internet—and, most important, democracy—is too significant to leave to one man, no matter how rich he is.

It’s not that it’s a “trickier proposition,” it’s that the 1st Amendment literally would not allow a law like the DSA to exist here (or, at least, not for long until a court tossed it out as unconstitutional). Reno v. ACLU exists. You’d think that the New Yorker’s fact checkers might have come across it. Or at least, the 1st Amendment.

I get that people are worried about what Musk might do with Twitter. I get that people are frustrated about what they perceive as the rampant flow of mis- and disinformation (even though I’m pretty sure most misunderstand it and how such misinformation actually flows.) But this weird rush to simply throw out the 1st Amendment (or, in this case, to ignore it) is especially bizarre coming from a media organization that heavily relies on the 1st Amendment to do what it does.

There’s this unfortunate belief among too many people that if something is “bad” it must be “regulated.” But when it comes to speech there are really important reasons why it can’t be regulated — in part because any attempt to regulate it will be widely abused by the powerful against the powerless. We know this because it has happened basically over and over again throughout history.

We’d get much further in this world by recognizing that there are other approaches to dealing with bad stuff in the world — especially bad speech — than demanding that the government step in and make it illegal. Because when you do that, you create massive problems that you can’t just fact check away, no matter how good your fact checking department is.

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Comments on “New Yorker’s Famed Fact Checking Crew Apparently Unaware Of The 1st Amendment?”

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Chozen (profile) says:

Re: Opinion

Fact checking is just opinion journalism masquerading by another name. When sued for ‘fact checks’ they get wrong the fact checkers hide behind ‘opinion isn’t subject to libel’ so far the courts have gone along with this.

Now I think the judges are full of shit. The legal standard in libel is would a reasonable juror conclude that something labeled a “fact check” is a statement of fact.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re:

Here is fact checking…

People like you will tell me that the sun is shining right now, and I will look out the window, see that it is cloudy and raining, and tell you that you are wrong.

Then you will get your panties in a bunch and talk about fake news, and my fact checking is just an opinion and don’t bother looking outside, just trust that you are correct.

Amirite?

Anonymous Coward says:

We’d get much further in this world by recognizing that there are other approaches to dealing with bad stuff in the world — especially bad speech — than demanding that the government step in and make it illegal.

After the leaked Supreme Court draft opinion that released today, the culmination of decades of bad stuff and bad speech meant to create a political environment where it was possible, I don’t really care. We played by the rules, countered speech with more speech, and this is where we’re at now.

This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it.

Chozen (profile) says:

Re: Roe is Bad Law

Even Ginsberg agreed that Roe was bad law. The democrats should have codified Roe into law in 1977 when Carter took office and they had a filibuster proof majority in the Senate, and many republicans that would gone along (1977 is before the Christian right came to prominence in the republican party.) They never did. Instead they just relied on a house of cards that even their own best legal minds told them would not stand long term.

That Anonymous Coward (profile) says:

Screw the facts!!

Lets just spoonfeed our own special magic solution that will fix everything while ignoring reality.

We can totally just carve out those parts of the founding documents of the nation that get in the way so we can force 1 rich dude to keep this platform the way we think it should be.

looks around
Yep this is the shittiest timeline and people keep trying to “fix” it with ideas that make everything worse.

There is no easy answer to make Twitter better.
Every fucking time a mental giant claims there is, god murders a kitten. WHY WON’T YOU THINK OF THE KITTENS!!!

Humans are incapable of solving anything, they are to consumed about properly assigning, using citations, & footnotes to make sure the blame is properly laid out.

Musk is buying Twitter, he might turn it into a shitshow, he might prove us all wrong. But its his fucking toy & you don’t get to tell him thats not the right way to play with it.

Stopping disinformation on any platform, can not/will not stop disinformation. The only way to make that happen is seal humans in hermetically sealed boxes & not allow them to communicate.

Disinformation isn’t the problem, disinformation is a symptom of a larger problem. People don’t feel listened to or valued, so they find ways to fill those voids. The voids exist because humans are easily exploited by their “leaders” who tell them the others are out to get them, only they care about them & their feelings and need to be in power to make things better.

We have soldiers, who fought for us, coming home & being screwed by the system that we promised would take care of them.
More people demand things happen to stop others from having an abortion, than give a shit about homeless vets suffering on the streets.

If states can pass laws to dictate medical decisions, I fully expect mass vaccination requirements the next fucking day, strongly held beliefs be damned.

There is no reason beyond ‘sincerely held’ religious beliefs to ban abortion, isn’t freedom from religion supposed to be a thing too?

But hey ‘Merika the nation where a corpse has more rights than a live woman…

Anonymous Coward says:

Re:

Disinformation isn’t the problem, disinformation is a symptom of a larger problem. People don’t feel listened to or valued, so they find ways to fill those voids.

This reads like the appeals we saw after after the 2016 election, appeals to emotion that we needed to listen to the ‘white working class’. They were bullshit back then and they’re bullshit today.

Maybe they’d be listened to or valued if they figured out that treating people who aren’t straight, white, Christian, or male as equals, as fellow human beings, is good.

It also reminds me of the way that the misogynist fucks of GamerGate tried to position themselves as outcasts of geek culture who got pushed aside by the ‘mainstream’ to try and earn pity and increase their numbers. Maybe if they weren’t pasty white misogynist fucks who treated LGBTQ+ people and minorities in the games industry as villains, they’d be listened to.

That Anonymous Coward (profile) says:

Re: Re:

“This reads like the appeals we saw after after the 2016 election, appeals to emotion that we needed to listen to the ‘white working class’. They were bullshit back then and they’re bullshit today.

Maybe they’d be listened to or valued if they figured out that treating people who aren’t straight, white, Christian, or male as equals, as fellow human beings, is good.”

So other than your emotional appeal, did you have any actual issue with my point?

The void has been filled by people telling them they are the victims, that the others are all out to get them and by jeebus you prove that point.

At no point did I say we had to listen to them, I mere pointed out that its become toxic with self fulfilling stereotypes on both sides getting more and more entrenched.

No longer agree to disagree, we must stop our enemies and listen to the lamentations of their women as we salt their fields.

They see the others as boogeymen & treat them as such. They have been warned, by the leaders they trust, that we are out to get them, steal their children and eat them.

Everything they say and do is met with screams, which just encourages them to keep it up. They slam down the button and the outrage skinner box gives them their treat.

“Maybe if they weren’t pasty white misogynist fucks who treated LGBTQ+ people and minorities in the games industry as villains, they’d be listened to.”

And perhaps if the games they liked weren’t being derided & declared as crap they might not have reacted that way. It wasn’t enough to attack the games, it then got much more personal about how the people who play those games are the worst possible stereotype oh pasty white dudes and gasp, pearl clutching they acted like pasty white dude caricatures.

Nothing happens in a vacuum, there isn’t a clearly defined point where 1 side started the whole thing so we can clearly assign the blame there.

Rather than trying to put an end to it, the only acceptable options is mutually assured destruction because 1 side HAS to “WIN” whatever the fsck win in this case is.

Many of these people have never met real world examples of the boogeymen, so they can’t possibly see them as human. They are fed distorted views & they get screamed at for being bastards for being cis white christian even if they themselves did nothing to anyone… and y’all wonder why they end up with the other cis white christians talking about how unhinged the other side is.

But yeah we should keep screaming at the cis white guys who made a joke or stupid comment like they murdered a puppy, that will TOTALLY encourage them to reform and behave.

o_O

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:

And perhaps if the games they liked weren’t being derided & declared as crap they might not have reacted that way.

Dude, GamerGate started when right-wing assholes on 4chan began directing harassment toward Zoe Quinn. The games they liked weren’t being ‘derided & declared as crap’. They set out to target marginalized groups in the game industry. One side did indeed start the whole thing there.

The rest of your comment is both-siderism gibberish peppered with a dash of right-wing “Nobody can take a joke anymore!!” cancel culture talking points.

Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:2

The games they liked weren’t being ‘derided & declared as crap’.

That makes me think the person to whom you replied was thinking of Anita Sarkeesian. Her videos on videogames and the sexism within many of their most ubiquitous tropes angered a lot of sexist shitbirds⁠—many of whom would eventually become a part of GamerGate.

That Anonymous Coward (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:4

Or perhaps I didn’t mention any actual figures involved because I didn’t start out talking about video games?

Because the very idea that people aren’t feeling listened to and joining groups is met with screams about how all cis white folk are terrible & lets revisit every shitty thing from the past & make sure we have 100% assigned the blame before moving onward?

Its fun watching people turning what I said into I set my sights on their sacred sacrificial lamb, while blowing past what I actually said.

Anon E Mouse says:

Re: Re: Re:2

right-wing
No.

assholes
Yes. Very yes.

started with harassment
Technically it started with accusations of corruption, but they did a really bad job of getting the point across, so practically yes. Especially most targets’ points of view, they didn’t really get anything that didn’t look like harassment. When you’ve got five people making a legitimate point and five thousand trying to signal boost by yelling obscenities, chances are you won’t see the legit point at all and rightfully assume it’s all harassment.

weren’t being ‘derided & declared as crap’
A dozen major sites simultaneously releasing articles saying gamers are dead, please stop designing games for gamers is a pretty clear indicator that this was in fact the case. Also the whole gamejournopro thing, which the journalists themselves revealed.

target marginalized groups in the game industry
Sort of. First target was Quinn, for accusations of sleeping for ratings, which I don’t think was ever proven true. Plus the later blackmailing a charity thing, which is a bit complicated. (short version. 4chan set up a charity to support female game developers to prove they’re not sexist. it backfired.)
Next targets were journalists, accused of forming a clique that tries to steer the entire gaming industry in a direction they want. Which they openly admitted to doing. Confusion ensued.
Third phase was 4chan deciding this is too complicated and switching to harassing minorities like they usually do. No t specifically in the game industry, just minorities in general. Whoever happens to catch their eye is the next prey.
So they did (and still do) harass marginalized groups, and groups part of the gaming industry. Sometimes these two overlapped.

That being said, harassment is plain wrong and shouldn’t happen. Don’t act like 4chan, folks.

One side did indeed start the whole thing
Again, sort of. 4chan shits on people all the time, for a wide variety of reasons. So in a way, 4chan started ‘it’, because they’re always doing ‘it’ to someone. But for GamerGate specifically to happen, you also need the journalists who tried to “fix” gaming. Without the journo participation, there would have been no GamerGate, it would’ve been just another day of 4chan harassing minorities like they usually do. You need both sides for this specific brand of terrible to happen. Other kinds of really bad things 4chan can conjure up all on its own and take sole responsibility for them.

Short version: Terrible people had an idea. Execution was terrible because they’re terrible people. Just terrible in a slightly different way than previous poster was telling it.

That Anonymous Coward (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:4

To paraphrase a movie…
‘Forget it Jake, it’s GamerGate.’

Everyone has their own version that tends to ignore the very important life lesson…
There is your side, there is their side, and somewhere inbetween is the truth.

I’m still trying to puzzle out how the hell I was talking about video games…

Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:5

There is your side, there is their side, and somewhere inbetween is the truth.

Queer people: We’re normal human beings.

Queerphobes: They’re perverts and child rapists.

What’s the inbetween “truth” there, fam?

Some arguments don’t have a solution of “compromise” or “meet me in the middle”. That fallacious bullshit needs to die, be buried, then have its grave nuked from orbit (it’s the only way to be sure).

That Anonymous Coward (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:6

The inbetween is that there are perverts and child rapists on both sides.

That using a broad brush to claim all x are y is childish & stupid.

I know I don’t enjoy being told I diddle little kids & animals, but I’ve never diddled little kids or animals & have no desire to… yet so many of their leaders promoting those ideas get busted diddling little kids.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:3

The Gaters were butthurt that the game journalists rightly pointed out that gamer culture is a pile of bigoted dogshit. GameJournoPros using their First Amendment rights of freedom of the press and freedom of association to coordinate and criticize games and gamer culture to push for more progressive games and games culture was cool. GamerGate pushing for “ethics in games journalism” wanted game devs and game journalists to shut up and stick to games and never get political. And ‘political’ to the GamerGaters was anything that was remotely progressive. Them siding with fascist instigators like Milo Yiannopolous was also a damning point.

The people who got brainwashed by GamerGate are the kind that fling shit at game devs and game journos declaring their support for LGBTQ+ rights, abortion rights, Black Lives Matter, and more.

That Anonymous Coward (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:2

“The rest of your comment is both-siderism gibberish peppered with a dash of right-wing “Nobody can take a joke anymore!!” cancel culture talking points.”

I’m sure the council of Elder Gays will take your claims under advisement as they vote on renewing my status as a gold star gay.

Aren’t a regular poster around here are ya?
Just blundering your way in to scream your piece, insult anyone who disagrees, claim everything is rooted in your own little personal mission.

The grown-ups are trying to talk, hush now.

This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:

But yeah we should keep screaming at the cis white guys who made a joke or stupid comment like they murdered a puppy, that will TOTALLY encourage them to reform and behave.

If they don’t agree to assimilate, we humiliate them. Show them the joy of having their prostate pierced with a throbbing BBC until they understand true love. The true place of the modern white male is on his knees with a black shlong or futa strapon up his sissy boi ass.

That Anonymous Coward (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:2

Its the open-mindedness that always touches my heart.

I hope that made you feel better, now let me explain how that comment is going to be lifted and amplified by the otherside to support claims that we’re trying to queer all the straights and this will TOTALLY lead to more acceptance.

Thanks for keeping the endless stupidity going, you’re doing a bang up job.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:3

Kink shame all you want. We used to have to hide ourselves. Now we’re everywhere, because the truth is anyone who disagrees with us is a homophobe, which means that they’re really a child molester dumb enough to believe in a sky imaginary friend. Which means that we outnumber the breeders.

You’ll all see the truth eventually. It’s only a matter of time.

OGquaker says:

Re: moot & specious

Musk has signed away his First Amendment, confirmed in Federal court last month.
See
The motion to quash the subpoena and to terminate the consent decree is DENIED.
The Clerk of Court is respectfully directed to close Dkt. No. 70.
SO ORDERED.
Dated: April 27, 2022
__________________________________
New York, New York LEWIS J. LIMAN
United States District Judge

Naughty Autie says:

Re: Re:

Musk has signed away his First Amendment [rights], confirmed in Federal court last month.

Not really. It’s only his tweets about Tesla that require pre-approval by his lawyer, so he hasn’t ‘signed away’ any of his rights because if he had, he wouldn’t be able to speak freely in any other regard.

sabroni says:

think it through

Your brilliant plan means the richest people control the discussion.
You point to articles that prove disinformation originates in traditional media. You know fox news controls the brains of many dumb Americans.
Have you not noticed capitalism destroying the biosphere?
How do we stop the rich fucking the planet when they control mass media?

Rocky says:

Re:

How do we stop the rich fucking the planet when they control mass media?

You educate people better, because it is invariable the people who lack a well-rounded education and the tools for critical thinking that consume mass-media unthinkingly which regularly cast them into being victims of the boogeyman de jour.

ws says:

Re:

Your entire premise and mentality are wrong from the start, along with your childish caricature of a conception of capitalism. Ted Turner has much to answer for the harm to the reasoning ability of generations. The “rich fucks” aren’t polluting for fun but as a side effect to fufill demands. No ammount of punishment or deranged murders will solve that issue. It is like the heads of drug cartels – no matter how many Norvegias you shoot or blow up another will emerge to fuffill the demands. That is what the incentives lead to.

It amounts to pathetic dodging to responsibility to try to claim “corporations” or “rich people” are responsible for pollution and world workers and consumers are blameless.

If you want to actually fix things you need to change the underlying incentives and dynamics and do so in a self-sustaining way. If you can make solar panels and batteries the cheapest option you’ll find people using them whenever they can manage it because why would you regularly pay for a fixed quantity of energy in fuel to feed into an expensive generator over time for power when you can get actual power directly cheaper?

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kumarkalpita8 (user link) says:

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