Anti-Vax Doctor Hires Anti-Vax Lawyer To Threaten A Dallas Publication With A ‘Deafamation’ Lawsuit

from the riderinsertingstickinbicyclespokes.png dept

Spotify — the world’s most popular music streaming service — has hitched its wagon to Joe Rogan, a former comedian and reality TV host whose particular take on world events involves him inviting highly controversial guests onto his podcast and then just muttering “that’s wild” when they invoke insane conspiracy theories.

Rogan has drawn heat before, but not quite as much heat as was generated by him inviting Dallas cardiologist Peter McCullough, who “explained” that the reaction to the COVID pandemic was mostly a “mass psychosis event” and that a horse dewormer would be a better option than any of the multiple vaccinations available.

Rogan was duly mocked for hosting this man and his truly stupid ideas. Boycotts were called for, targeting Spotify for making Rogan the face of its podcasting wing by giving him an extremely lucrative contract. Spotify wasn’t necessarily in the wrong when it chose to pay Rogan quite a bit for providing exclusive content. But it had to know Rogan would cause problems, because Rogan has always caused problems.

The first one to fire back at Rogan was Neil Young, a rock artist who knows a little bit about music and streaming. But how much Young’s opinion matters is open to debate, since he was the artist who thought people wanted nothing more than a triangular music player to place uncomfortably close to their crotch while listening to recordings delivered in a proprietary format they couldn’t move to less uncomfortably-shaped music players.

Other artists with less stupid music delivery ideas followed suit. Soon, Spotify was backpedaling, but not far enough it would willingly separate itself from someone it considered to be a profitable, long-term investment. Page after page of internet criticism pointed out the stupidity of the Dallas cardiologist as well as Rogan’s long track record of inviting idiotic conspiracy theorists to his show to spout unchallenged, idiotic conspiracy theories.

D Magazine, a Dallas (TX)-oriented publication edited by Tim Rogers, was one of many offering critiques of the Dallas-based cardiologist with a headful of bad wiring. Its January article pointed out many questionable assertions by the not-so-good doctor, who suggested vaccinations were unnecessary because the spread of COVID was pretty much just a figment of the collective imagination.

One of McCullough’s top talking points is that the population is being “railroaded” into vaccination, rather than working on treating the disease. Rogan asks McCullough how so many physicians could go along with what he characterizes as poor treatment. “We think there are about 500 doctors who know what is going on in the United States,” McCullough says, of about 1 million nationwide. “The nurses are more awake than the doctors.”

“The doctors appear to be, like many of our leaders, are in what is called a mass formation psychosis,” McCullough says. This is when groupthink is so strong that it leads to tragedy, the physician says, citing mass suicides connected to cults. He adds that every prominent religious and international leader is under the same spell. Steps to mass psychosis include isolation, withdrawal of enjoyment, constant anxiety, and a single solution offered by an entity in authority. “Worldwide, everyone must take the vaccination,” he says.

The article, written by Will Maddox, dove deep and provided links and statements from medical professionals who contradicted the Dallas physician’s claims, which went completely unvetted during his appearance on Rogan’s incredibly popular podcast.

Joe Rogan can presumably afford good lawyers, what with his millions in contracts and endorsements. It appears Dr. Peter McCullough can’t. Instead of a good lawyer, he’s apparently retained the services of Parisa Fishback, who appears to be the sole proprietor and litigant of Fishback Law Group, a law firm that specializes in handling bankruptcy filings. Fishback does not appear qualified to handle defamation claims, as Tim Rogers points out for D Magazine.

Dr. Peter McCullough is a kook, and the lawyer who sent us a cease-and-desist letter on his behalf, Parisa Fishback, has a wonderful name but is not good at writing cease-and-desist letters. Again: that’s all in my opinion. Fishback is the president and general counsel of a California-based anti-vaccination-mandate-for-kids outfit called The Unity Project, on whose advisory council McCullough serves (facts). In addition to that work, she is a bankruptcy attorney and real estate broker (fact) who runs a charity that involves luxury cars (fact), which she has described thusly: “At Cars N’ Causes, we are driven to end slavery and are racing to save the lives of victims of human trafficking right here in America” (word play!). Fishback was the wrong choice to send a cease-and-desist letter based on a defamation claim (opinion), because, among other reasons, she spelled it “deafamation.” (Giggle.)

Yes, according to Fishback there’s a new form of libel out there and D Magazine has done it. Apparently it involves liberal use of ASL and the middle finger. “Deafamation” is when you are libel, as those with Twitter Law degrees say.

The letter [PDF] at least attempts to list what bankruptcy lawyer/poor speller Fishback believes to be libelous. But the attempt is inadvertently hilarious, since all it conveys is what the courts call “conclusory statements” that cannot be treated as actionable. Fishback doesn’t even bother to point out how this extended statement from D Magazine is knowingly false. The letter simply assumes that it is before making with the legal threats.

The defamatory statements include, but are not limited to, the following: “Another of McCullough’s talking points, which he also detailed before the Texas Senate, is that healthy people under 50 do not need to get the vaccine. The issue has been fact-checked and discredited by numerous authorities and plenty of empirical evidence, but interestingly enough, Rogan hosted a guest earlier this month who spoke to the risks of the vaccine compared to the virus in young people…. McCullough goes on to doubt the efficacy of the vaccines, saying that those who have already had COVID should not get vaccinated and that there have been very few people who get it twice. The omicron surge has proved that to be wrong again. In Dallas, 95 percent of the deaths at Parkland Hospital have been unvaccinated individuals.”

Fishback’s argument that these statements are false consist solely of her copy-pasting the legal definition of defamation into the C&D.

The other argument Fishback (barely) deploys is an appeal to authority:

Thus as a layperson and not a medical professional, you have defamed Dr. McCullough.

LOL.

On one hand, I desperately want the doctor to sue, especially if he retains Fishback to handle his “deafamation” claims. Hilarity is bound to ensue.

On the other hand, I don’t want D Magazine to have to spend real money defending itself against obvious bullshit. Fortunately, Texas (where the lawsuit would presumably be filed) has an anti-SLAPP law in place that would make it extremely risky to pursue BS defamation claims. Whatever legal fees D Magazine racks up defending itself from Dr. McCullough’s attempt to convert butthurt into an actionable claim very likely could end up being expenses he has to pay from his own pocket. Hopefully his attorney has apprised him of this possibility and, hopefully, has done so after allowing spellcheck to do its job.

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Comments on “Anti-Vax Doctor Hires Anti-Vax Lawyer To Threaten A Dallas Publication With A ‘Deafamation’ Lawsuit”

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That One Guy (profile) says:

When everyone but you is crazy... everyone but you is crazy

“We think there are about 500 doctors who know what is going on in the United States,” McCullough says, of about 1 million nationwide.

Ah yes, there’s no better sign that everyone else is crazy and suffering from a delusion than when your opinion is in the extreme minority among your profession and your lawyer’s best response to verifiable facts about how reality disagrees with you is the equivalent of ‘Nuh uh’.

That Anonymous Coward (profile) says:

Still thinking that interment camps would have been the way to go from the beginning. But then I’m an evil uncaring immortal sociopath… :eyeroll:

Y’all finally locked Typhoid Mary up because she kept getting people sick because she ‘knew’ she wasn’t sick.

Now you idiots elect these people to Congress to spread their special brand of what looks to the untrained immortal viewer like what happens when syphilis makes it to the brain.

There were never 2 sides, there were those who cared about their fellow man and those who didn’t care who ended up dead as long as they kept getting paid.

Rogan is a very bright man, he just has to hum and aww while he has these fuckwits on his show and he makes more money. The wackier they are, the more the left tried to cancel him the more the right run to save him…

800K+ dead and we still have people defending those claiming its not a virus.

Say it with me…
How in the FUCK are humans still alive.

sumgai (profile) says:

Re:

TOC, as of this morning (Wed 3/2/2022), the total number of deaths in the US attributed to Covid is sitting at 931,000. I’ll assume a small tolerance, due mainly to reporting delays and such. While that number does comply with your “800K+ dead” statement, it quite understates the fact by about 12%.

Only ’cause I’m a stickler about these kinds of things, don’t take it personally. 😉

PaulT (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:

I’m sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but it’s certainly higher than even that. Sources often differ depending on how they report their sources, but Worldometers have the figure at 981,729 in the US and 6,001,938 globally (it varies in accuracy, but this is the metric I’ve personally used since the start).

In the US, it’s known that some states and counties are deliberately underreporting figures, and the figures above only count cases that are directly linked to COVID and not, for example, people who died of preventable conditions that were not treated in time due to hospitals being filled with COVID patients. Globally, some places are more trustworthy than others, but there’s no way in hell we’ve seen accurate figures from places like China, India and Brazil.

Rogan has global reach for his misinformation, and there’s recently been footage of Florida governor Ron DeSantis telling students around him to stop wearing masks, even though his wife is recovering from chemotherapy and those masks were essentially there to protect her. There’s no hope for some people.

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That One Guy (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:2

Rogan has global reach for his misinformation, and there’s recently been footage of Florida governor Ron DeSantis telling students around him to stop wearing masks, even though his wife is recovering from chemotherapy and those masks were essentially there to protect her.

Oh such a wonderful opportunity, not just mocking him for being offended by a scrap of cloth but a further dig at how his self-centeredness puts the lives of others at risk…

‘We were doing it mainly to protect your wife, but if you want her dead that badly then I guess we can take them off.’

That Anonymous Coward (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:2

What I know is that no one will ever get an actual number.
Even with a time machine to view & record each death & medical reports showing covid as the cause… the idea of fake news will win.
The idea that Death Santis didn’t order the coverup of covid deaths to make his numbers look better is fake.

Part of the nation is willing to kill to ‘own the libs’.
You can claim thats hyperbole, but once we hit 500K deaths, to pretend it was still a hoax & putting others in danger was petty childish and resulted in deaths that didn’t need to happen.

I mean I guess it wasn’t that big a leap from ignoring the homeless, returning vets we screw, mentally ill wandering the streets, children not getting enough to eat, needed medicine held out of the reach of people who will DIE without it for shareholder value, whats a highly communicable disease in the grand scheme of things??

I don’t have to do anything, I can scream how its all fake, and the hospital still will take care of me.
I can infect others proclaiming my rights matter more than your life… but magically your rights don’t matter more than unborn life.

Y’all can’t die off fast enough, you’ve broken reality into being something thats optional to accept.

I’d say may god have mercy upon your souls, but god is dead. Those that claim to follow his teachings are a deathcult willing to murder others to “win”. Guess that love one another, care of the least of thee, and every other teaching of love, tolerance, and help aren’t as sexy as demanding the whole world change to appease you.

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Chozen (profile) says:

Re: There Were Always Two Sides

There were always two sides. There were those of us who said virus going to virus and there is really nothing we can do. There were those who developed a god complex like yourself and truly believed you could stop this thing with masks distancing and other bull@%@^. Care to guess who was correct?

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Mike Masnick (profile) says:

Re: Re: No guessing needed

All of the evidence (tons and tons and tons of it) have shown that distancing, masks, and vaccines saved a ridiculous number of lives.

You are either an idiot or an intentional peddler of dangerous disinformation. I’m not sure which is better.

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Chozen (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:2 Not A Literal Statement

Ah yes mikes misfits. Throw what ever you can think of at the wall and hope something sticks. I remember when I laid out general self defense law in the US and caveated that id does very state. In desperation you cited misfits Texas law. That somehow Texas exception to the rule made the rule. But you guys are that stupid. Bunch of leftist whackos citing Texas law as the gold standard.

bhull242 (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:3

Ummm, it’s not just Texas law. It’s the law in a lot of places in the US. This is also the first time you’ve made that qualification.

Also, that’s not desperation. It’s a pretty basic part of debates: pointing out flaws in another’s claim by citing counterexamples.

You also ignored the whole “kicking someone off of an internet platform is violence” thing.

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Chozen (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re: Please Cite All This Evidenc

Please cite all this “evidence” I never said anything about vaccines. Remember the left was against vaccines before they were for it. I just got a booster. You are intentionally adding qualifiers to argue against.

“Lockdowns Had ‘Little To No’ Benefit On Public Health, Analysis Finds”

Lockdowns Had ‘Little To No’ Benefit On Public Health, Analysis Finds
The Johns Hopkins researchers concluded that the lockdowns “had enormous economic and social costs,” however. The report says lockdowns in Europe and the United States reduced covid mortality by only 0.2% on average.”

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Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:2

the left was against vaccines before they were for it

The “left” was against speeding the vaccines through trials to get it out before the 2020 election⁠—against getting a vaccine out only to help Donald Trump win the election. Turns out that, in the end, more Trumpists than “leftists” ended up being anti-vax thanks to, in large part, the anti-vax rhetoric coming from largely conservative outlets for misinformation. I mean, Trump himself got booed by his own sycophantic fanbase for saying he’d gotten a booster.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re:

Care to guess who was correct?

Well, I’ll tell ya, I’d have a lot more respect for you ‘there’s nothing we can do’ people if you had just fucked off and died when you got it instead of clogging up the hospitals. Funny how desperate some of those ‘patriots’ got once they got a tube snaked down their throat. It’s almost as if they expected someone to do something, no?

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:2

Yeah those hospitals in New York and Jersey were just clogged with all those redneck republicans, all 2 of them.

Of course they were!

I mean, after they realize they don’t have worms and they can’t just pour piss on it, they’re out of options, no?

Then again, maybe they went to the vet. Given the ivermectin popularity, I’m thinking I might’ve stumbled onto something.

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Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: I’ll take a stab at it, sure.

Care to guess who was correct?

Given how the pandemic safety measures have apparently wiped out one of the four major strains of influenza and drastically reduced flu season for the past two years? I’d say it was the people who said “social distancing, mask wearing, vaccines, and other measures to protect our health can and will work” were right. Nihilist death-inviting shitheads like you got it wrong every step of the way⁠—and we have almost a million dead Americans whose bodies are proof of your wrongness.

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Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:2 I’ll ignore the otherwording this time.

Your argument is it worked against influenza but didn’t work against COVID?

No, my argument is that the measures would’ve worked to stem COVID-19 had we all adhered to them long enough to make COVID-19 less widespread so it wouldn’t mutate into more transmissible variants. (Maskholes and other various plague enthusiasts made sure that never happened.) That the upside of people sticking to those measures was the apparent elimination of an entire strain of influenza is a bonus⁠—and proof that the measures would’ve helped stem the spread of COVID-19. You know, if people like Old 45 and his asskissers in Congress hadn’t kept constantly going on about how mask mandates were like the Holocaust and COVID-19 was right on the verge of “going away” right before every big surge and shit.

And before you even leap to that ledge: Yes, I have issues with the CDC recently changing its COVID-19 guidance as if the disease is gone/going away for good. No, that doesn’t make me a maskhole, an anti-vaxxer, or any other form of plague enthusiast. No, it doesn’t make me a nihilistic deathseeker. Yes, it makes me someone who will keep wearing masks in public because I’d prefer not catching COVID-19 even though I’m fully vaccinated. And yes, you’re still an asshole.

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Chozen (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:3 Then Why Did They Work

Then why did they work against influenza?

When you get an incongruity like this you should start asking questions of is there is something you are missing in why influenza reporting maybe low.

Cancer diagnoses fell 50% too. Did social distancing and masks cause that too?

Maybe people just stopped going to the doctor for things that weren’t COVID.

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Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:4

Then why did they work against influenza?

We have flu vaccines and treatments. We know how the flu spreads, and we know when the flu spreads the most. We knew how other countries tried to fight back against influenza and other diseases similar to both the flu and COVID-19. And since there was far less public socializing going on in the past two years, the ability of the flu to spread would’ve been greatly decreased as well. The preventative measures have been proven largely effective in suppressing the spread of such viral diseases…when they’re taken seriously, anyway.

why influenza reporting may[ ]be low

I can think of several reasons, sure: lower numbers for the flu in general, fewer people going to the hospital/their doctors because of COVID-19 restrictions, fewer people being reported as having had the flu because they also had COVID-19 (which would obviously be the priority). But chances are that COVID-19 numbers have also been underreported for several reasons. We can assume such things without attributing it to conspiracy theories.

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Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:6

The easiest explanation is that people stopped going to the doctor and diagnoses fell across the board not just of influenza.

It is the easiest explanation, but it isn’t the only explanation. People stopped going to a lot of places during the pandemic, which drastically reduced their exposure to other people, which in turn helped them avoid exposure to COVID-19. And as mentioned in a different comment, the contagious period for the flu is smaller than that of COVID-19, so avoiding one infectious viral disease also helped people avoid another infectious viral disease.

(Cancer isn’t an infectious viral disease, so it ultimately has no relevance to this discussion.)

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Rocky says:

Re: Re: Re:7

It is the easiest explanation, but it isn’t the only explanation.

The major reason why diagnoses of diseases dropped during the pandemic is because the hospitals was full of people suffering from COVID. This is also reflected in excess mortality everywhere in the world after you adjust for deaths due to COVID.

It’s crystal clear that Chozen doesn’t understand cause and effect, instead he goes for the simplest explanation that fits his narrative.

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Chozen (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:7 That is Exactly Why it Is Relevant

That cancer isn’t an infectious viral disease is exactly why its relevant.

Diagnoses were down in 2020 and 2021 across the board. Your cherry picking the rate of a single diagnosed illness/condition when such dragonesses were down across the board for a very simple reason.

The simplest explanation is when people felt bad they got a drive up COVID test and if the test was negative they went home. Its your civic duty to go home and sleep it off if its not COVID-19. Don’t burden the medical system.

This led to a lot of people who had cancer not getting diagnosed. It has also led to a lot of influenza cases not being diagnosed for the same reason. The COVID test was negative so they went home and sought no further treatment.

That’s a lot more valid and consistent explanation than your ‘The protocols stopped influenza but didn’t stop COVID because people weren’t following the protocols.’ If people weren’t following the protocols than why did it stop influenza?

You are trying to find castles in the clouds because you have to convince yourself that you weren’t wrong.

Rocky says:

Re: Re: Re:4

Then why did they work against influenza?

If you haven’t grasped it yet let me enlighten you, influenza and COVID-19 are actually different viruses which also happen to have different R0 values. For example, a person having COVID-19 are likely to be contagious for a longer period than someone having the flu.

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Chozen (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:5 Distinction Without Difference

While influenza and COVID have different R0 values they are both well above 1 and their ranges overlap significantly so different R0 values is not a valid explanation of why influenza dropped through the floor while COVID spread like wildfire under the same protocols.

Your argument is classic Distinction Without Difference.

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Rocky says:

Re: Re: Re:6

Your argument makes sense, if you disregard everything we know about flu and COVID.

  1. Seasonal flu has an R0 of about 1.3.
  2. COVID has an R0 of at minimum 2 with indications that it can be as high as 6.
  3. A record number of flu-shots where given during the period.

You have yet again shown that you don’t know what you are talking about. Is this some variant of self-flagellation in public?

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Chozen (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:7 Sorry not Significant

Seasonal flue mean R0 is 1.4 it can be as high as 6. However, we have a great deal of immunity from flu and higher R0 usually means less virulent and the virus pitters out quickly. You are taking a specific well known mean with over 100 years of data and comparing it to a relative unknown with a broad possible range. Not very intellectually honest of you.

Again argument that COVID-19 has a higher R0 probably 2-3 vs. a normal 1-2 but that doesn’t explain the extreme decline in influenza as COVID ran through the population.

The simpler explanation is the correct one. Our protocol of care changed. If you felt sick you got a COVID test. If the test was negative you went home and slept it off. Because of this diagnoses of illness and conditions other than covid fell through the floor. Its actually been a real problem.

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Rocky says:

Re: Re: Re:8

You are taking a specific well known mean with over 100 years of data and comparing it to a relative unknown with a broad possible range. Not very intellectually honest of you.

Every accusation, a confession.

You are free to propose how one compares something well established with something that isn’t but has a body of statics that with a high confidence establishes upper-lower bounds and a mean that is at least the double. Intellectually dishonesty is to fudge the nature of the numbers, or dismissing higher R0 values as insignificant.

You also just suggested that every study doing comparative analysis between the flu and COVID are done by intellectually dishonest people.

The simpler explanation is the correct one. Our protocol of care changed. If you felt sick you got a COVID test. If the test was negative you went home and slept it off. Because of this diagnoses of illness and conditions other than covid fell through the floor. Its actually been a real problem.

Seems you are unaware of something called multiplexed PCR-tests which can detect both flu and COVID.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re:

I see you decided to show back up here after the thorough bitchslapping you received the last time you showed yourself.

Oh, and have you learned the difference between public housing and a public house yet?

And yes, a bar owner can forcibly remove an unruly patron whenever they want, for whatever reason, and they do not need any special permit or training. Just like social media can do as well…

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Chozen (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:3 I Love the Misfits

You misfits are so funny. You think you win arguments when you dont and when your entire group was saying that the O’Keefe v. NYT order wasn’t a protective order and I quoted the judge calling it a protective order what some 6 times or so, crickets.

Dont you mastiffs get it. This is an echo chamber. There’s like a half a dozen of you left.

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Rocky says:

Re: Re: Re:4

Let me quote something from the case in question:

Project Veritas brought an order to show cause for the instant motion on November 18, 2021, which this court signed and entered, granting a temporary restraining order that directed the Times and its counsel to: (i) immediately refrain from further disseminating or publishing any of Project Veritas’ privileged materials in the possession of the Times; (ii) cease further efforts to solicit or acquire Project Veritas’ attorney-client privileged materials; and (iii) schedule argument on an expedited basis for November 23, 2021. On November 19, 2021, the Second Department denied a motion by the Times pursuant to CPLR 5704 that sought to vacate the Temporary Restraining Order issued by this court.

The text here is unambiguous, the judge issued a Temporary Restraining Order. He then gives his reasoning for this later in the order, using the colloquialism protective order to refer to it.

Why do you keep embarrassing yourself in this manner? You aren’t even content with showing everyone that you don’t actually understand the things you read, you also had to wave your supposedly academic degrees around akin to some juvenile e-peen contest.

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Chozen (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:5 Backwards

No you have causality backwards. A restraining order is a specific type of protective order. Protective order is not a “colloquialism” I’d go back to the quotes I made from the judgement but Mike deleted the entire thing surprise surprise. Mike can never be wrong because Mike deletes all evidence of his mistakes.

The next time around Mike only linked to the NYT’s opinion of the order and not the order itself. Mike learns from his mistakes.

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Rocky says:

Re: Re: Re:6

You don’t do context – do you? The judge specifically issued a TRO, it’s in the quote I provided from the case. Was it too hard to read? Didn’t it fit your expectations?

That the judge uses the words protective order colloquially in reference to the issued TRO when talking about the events doesn’t suddenly transform the actual TRO to something else.

Your whole argument is like saying that the name of a plaintiff is “plaintiff”, because that’s the term a judge used to refer to the actual person who was the plaintiff.

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Chozen (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:7 No You Didn't Quote the Case

No you didn’t quote the case. I don’t know where you got said quote. It looks like a news story. What the judge did was grant Project veritas motion for a protective order.

From the very order that Mike posted which is why the next time Mike made the thread about the case he didn’t like to the order but instead NYT’s opinion of the order.

“Here, the court’s PROTECTIVE ORDER does not act as an impermissible pior restraint on the Times” P 25 Ch 2
https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/fbem/DocumentDisplayServlet?documentId=SgQ8IEENXxhU2D4NlHEZHw==&system=prod

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: So that's what happened to you.

“These results accord with reports of long-COVID, where ‘brain fog,’ trouble concentrating, and difficulty finding the correct words are common,” the authors wrote. “Recovery from COVID-19 infection may be associated with particularly pronounced problems in aspects of higher cognitive or ‘executive’ function.”

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Chozen (profile) says:

Re: Re: Yeah

Fake medical experts claiming objectively false facts like dewormers cant treat viruses cause more problems than the solve.

The correct thing for you to do is apologize for making a reductive argument that endangers the lives of others.

You want to argue that the pathway by which ivermectin is believed to act as an anti-viral doesn’t work for COVID-19 be my guest. However, I suspect that such a technical discussion is way out of your expertise wheelhouse.

But do not go around spreading medical disinformation that dewormers cant treat viruses because its objectively false and such disinformation could kill someone.

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Toom1275 (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:3

As in, the only way to say what you said without deliberately lying is to replace every instance of can’t with can.

Here’s the corrected-to-remove-fraud version:

Fake medical experts claiming objectively false facts like Ivermectin can treat Covid cause more problems than the solve.

The correct thing for Chozen to do is apologize for making a reductive argument that endangers the lives of others.

You want to argue that the believed pathway by which ivermectin acts as an anti-viral works for COVID-19 be my guest. However, I suspect that such a technical discussion is way out of your expertise wheelhouse.

But do not go around spreading medical disinformation that Ivermectin can treat Covid because its objectively false and such disinformation could kill someone.

It’s telling that the sole bases of your claims are exclusively lies, strawmen, goalpoast moving, amd projection.

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BernardoVerda (profile) says:

Re:

In the Country of the Blind…

… the one-eyed man may be less likely to become King, than to be restrained for his own good (until doctors can remove the dysfunctional organ that is evidently causing such hallucinatory perceptions and consequent delusional thought processes).

PS: Sorry, this is a repost, because the original was supposedly a reply… … but creating my own title seems to have screwed up the html/javascript a little.

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Chozen (profile) says:

You Are Not An Expert Either

You aren’t a medical expert either. When you refer to ivermectin as “horse dewormer” you are giving medical advice. You are implying to the reader that ivermectin cant work because its an anti-parasitic not an antiviral. But anti-parasitics are frequently anti-virals as well. Lots of anti-parastics are effective at treating various forms of hepatis niclosamide is an effective treatment for hepatitis E for example.

Long story short the same pathways that kills parasites can often inhibit viral replication.

Thats not to say ivermectin works to treat COVID-19. But it is to say that anti-parastics can and are frequently anti-virals as well. To imply otherwise is to practice medicine without a license and to put others at risk.

What if some expecting mother with hepatitis E is prescribed Niclosamide and she reads the literature, sees it is an anti-parastic developed to treat tapeworm, and refuses to take it because she has bought into your ivermectin hysteria and isn’t’ about to take a dewormer to treat a virus. What is that kills her unborn child? Don’t you bear responsibility for that? You pushed this ‘dewormer cant treat a virus’ hysteria. I think you have responsibility for that death you monster.

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Toom1275 (profile) says:

Re:

When you refer to ivermectin as “horse dewormer” you are giving medical advice.

… said nobody with any level of literacy, ever.

And also note that the real world facts are that the Ivermectin fraud continues to have no effectiveness in treating Covid, as anyone who understands how it works expected.

https://arstechnica.com/science/2022/02/ivermectin-fails-another-covid-trial-as-study-links-use-to-gop-politics/

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Chozen (profile) says:

Re: Re: Its not Meant to Be Literal

When the author says “that a horse dewormer would be a better option than any of the multiple vaccinations available.” That is not a literal statement. The statement is meant to imply that an anti-parsatic cant work against a virus. That is medical advice and false medical advice that could get people killed in the future if they refuse to take anti-parasitics as anti-virals.

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Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:5

That is why you aren’t defending that statement

I don’t need to defend the statement because it doesn’t need defending. You’re willfully misreading and misinterpreting the statement to make it sound like someone passing on medical advice or trying to start “hysteria” when nothing of the sort is going on. You’re arguing in bad faith⁠—and you’re doing it so poorly that for all the degrees you claim to have, a GED-having motherfucker like me is able to shove all your arguments back up the same hole you pulled them from.

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Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:7 Oi, dipshit, read this one carefully.

Here’s the problem with your argument: “Horse dewormer” is a specific reference to a specific anti-parasitic (ivermectin) that has specifically been referenced as (and disproven to be) a possible treatment for a specific virus (COVID-19). You haven’t yet come up with a decent argument as to why I⁠—or any other reasonable person⁠—should read that reference to “horse dewormer” as anything but a reference to ivermectin and its inefficacy at treating COVID-19. If you’re so motherfucking smart, what’s keeping you from presenting such an argument?

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Chozen (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:6 Maybe Ivemectin Doesn't Work

Hey maybe ivermectin doesn’t work. Maybe is affect on IMPα doesn’t have significant affect on COVID-19.

But that would not have anything at all to do with it being “horse dewormer.”

Telling people that it doesn’t work because its “horse dewormer” is medical disinformation because dewormers do treat viruses and we dont want people think that they dont.

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Chozen (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:10 You Are No Man

Nothing juvenile about it. ‘What is juvenile is that because of social media and the internet too many adults act like children thinking they can insult people without being punched in the face for it.’ Credit to Mike Tyson.

Prove me wrong. Go into a bar. Go up to the biggest dude there get in his face and start calling him boi.

You wont do that because you are a juvenile coward.

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Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:19

You aren’t going to come up to my face in a bar and start “name-calling” because you recognize that threat of violence.

No, I’m not going to do it because it’s fucking stupid. You’re the one aching to assault someone who might dare to call you “childish” over your (apparently uncontrollable) impulse to assault people who insult you.

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Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:21

I’m not afraid to insult someone in meatspace if they deserve it, but I’m not going to blindly insult someone out of the blue for some arbitrary reason⁠—be it size, gender, or whatever. The difference between meatspace and cyberspace is that I will never meet you in meatspace, so I don’t have any reason to hold back my insults beyond my own discipline. That you continue to troll this site with your displays of profound ignorance, your attempts to turn being insulted for your trolling into some sort of grave sociopolitical grievance, and your inability to show even the slightest bit of self-awareness is why I insult you.

And since you’re never going to do anything to me in meatspace for insulting you⁠—despite what I’m sure is, by now, an overwhelming desire within you to cave my skull in with a wrench⁠—I don’t need to worry about you. What are you gonna do, think up a silly name for me and use it twelve dozen times because you think it keeps getting funnier every time you say it? Ooooh, I’m so fucking scared~. (Better people than you have called me worse names than you could ever dream up, Chippendale.)

Again: Admitting that you see violence as an appropriate response to speech you don’t like is telling on yourself⁠—and you’re not exactly painting a picture of a mature, well-adjusted adult. (And before you even start on that: I’m not one either, but you don’t see me trying to say otherwise.) So please do yourself (and everyone else here) a favor and, in the words of Black Dynamite, shut the fuck up when grown folks is talkin’.

PaulT (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:20

There’s something I’ve heard a bunch that’s usually attributed to Penn Jillete where someone asks him “without Jesus, what’s stopping you from raping and killing as much as you want”. To which his response is “I already do that as much as I want, which is zero times”.

It’s scary that some people are out there wanting to do these things, whether it’s bullying people on social media or committing real life atrocities, and they’re only being stopped by something that others who don’t do those things don’t even consider real.

bhull242 (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:17

The threat of violence is what makes us civil.

I’m civil because I want people to be civil to me. No violence or threats necessary.

Its why you wont go into a bar and call the biggest guy boy but you have no trouble doing it online.

I don’t see why calling any man “boy” is insulting, but I don’t call people “boy” in general. At any rate, the other person hasn’t said they wouldn’t do so in a bar and you have nothing but assertions that they wouldn’t.

Furthermore, that doesn’t really help your case.

There is no legitimate threat of violence online.

Oh, you poor naïve child. You must be new to the internet.

Rocky says:

Re: Re: Re:11

If your only response to an insult is physical violence that makes you a juvenile that is emotionally insecure.

The difference between us is that I’m not interested in fighting, my only goal is to disable an aggressor as fast as possible. If you don’t understand the implication of that statement you are even stupider that I thought.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re:

Thats not to say ivermectin works to treat COVID-19. But it is to say that anti-parastics can and are frequently anti-virals as well. To imply otherwise is to practice medicine without a license and to put others at risk.

Oh don’t get me wrong, pal. I LOVE the simpletons who were eating horse dewormer. Now that was some fucking funny shit!

Have you or any of the other brilliant minds that advocate for this stuff ever considered that you’re being played to see how stupid a thing they can make you do?

Because between injecting bleach, horse dewormer, Trump getting ‘reinstated,’ and the special kind of stupid folks waiting for RFK Jr. in Texas, if you can’t see how you’re being played at this point, you never will.

But by all means, don’t turn back now. You all have no idea how much entertainment you and your ilk have given me over the last few years.

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Chozen (profile) says:

Re: Re: City Folk

Coming from a more rural state I think liberal urbanites paying $3,000 for the same chemical that sells for $10 at farm and fleet is “some fucking funny shit!”

Whats even funnier is you think the chemical is somehow “different” and better and at the same time think you are smarter than everyone else.

Rocky says:

Re: Re: Re:

No one has said that the active ingredients are different, I give this strawman a D for effort – no more.

What has been said is that the formulations are different. One formulation is for an animal that weighs a thousand pounds or more and one for humans with an average weight of 180 pounds. The formulations also differ because horses and humans have very different metabolisms.

If some idiots think it’ll protect them fro VOID by gorging themselves on Ivermectin formulated for getting rid of worms in horses, aka horse de-wormer, they are free to do so – but I and others will keep laughing at them and calling them idiots.

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Chozen (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:2 Pill Cutter?

You are too stupid to use a calculator and a pill cutter?

Damn, better to remain silent and be thought the fool than to speak up and remove all doubt.

You are just an elitist prick. Good old boys been dosing meds for animals ranging from 2lb chickens to 2,000lb bulls. And I agree you are probably too stupid to do that. But your specific stupidity doesn’t mean other people are as dumb as you are.

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Chozen (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:4 Why?

Why is it stupid? Try to find examples of contaminated equine medicine on google. Good Luck!

You will find more examples of contaminated human medications.

Your life isn’t worth as much as a prized race horse Stephen. A pharmaceutical company would rather save money cutting corners on your meds than risk killing some billionaire breeders multimillion dollar race horse.

That you dont get this shows just how full of yourself you are.

Your life isn’t worth less than that horse get that through your thick skull. You are not important. That horse is more important to the world and more valued by the world than you are.

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Chozen (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:6 What Does it Say About You

What does it say about you? You still cant articulate why an equine drug is any different a chemicals than a human drug?

“a drug formulated for another species of animal”

A drug formulated for another species of animal? What does that even mean? Are you saying it has a different chemical composition? What the hell do you even mean? Do you even know?

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Chozen (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:8 And?

Are you saying that ivermectin paste wont be active inside of the human body once digested?

What is your reasoning?

I mean there could be some reason deepening on species of animal why a certain formulation wouldn’t work across species but its a really really big sketch especially when you cant even think up a casual mechanism.

Off the top of my head I know some formulations meant for cows wont work on humans because of a cows unique digestive tracts but that isn’t true for horses.

You just cant scream horse paste. You have to have some kind of actual scientific argument.

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Rocky says:

Re: Re: Re:9

Look, the facts are as following:

  1. Medication formulated for animals my result in adverse reactions in humans because of differences in how it’s absorbed and metabolized even though the specific active ingredient is the same.
  2. If someone actually understand what they are doing and are willing to self medicate on drugs formulated for animals, fine – it’s their choice.
  3. Ivermectin as prophylactic/cure for COVID-19 has a proven effectiveness of essentially 0 so far.
  4. Ivermectin may have anti-viral properties that are effective against specific viruses, but not COVID-19.
  5. Ivermectin is an anti-parasitic drug and the human formulation for ingestion is a dewormer, when it’s formulated for horses it’s colloquially called a horse dewormer.
  6. There are people who believed some rando claiming Ivermectin was an effective prophylactic against COVID-19 which resulted in them ingesting large quantities of Ivermectin intended for horses which in turn put them in a hospital.
  7. Saying horse de-wormer and horse paste is just a way to highlight the idiocy of the people mentioned in #6, just like how we use florida man to highlight idiots in Florida doing stupid things. But it’s also used to ridicule people who take any variant of Ivermectin in the belief it will protect them from contracting COVID-19 even though there is no evidence it actually will.

If people don’t like being ridiculed they should stop doing stupid things that lends themselves to ridicule.

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Chozen (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:8 Formulation

You have to understand I’m baiting cityboy Stephen. Yes I know what formulation means. He is just spouting words. Animal formations are almost always about unique characteristics in certain farm animals digestive systems and metabolisms.

Some formulations will not work across species because of unique traits, usually in digestion.

But almost any good old boy can tell you that really isn’t the case with horses. What works on a horse works on a human. Horses, pigs, and humans are monogastric and formulations for each work on each.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:

Whats even funnier is you think the chemical is somehow “different” and better and at the same time think you are smarter than everyone else.

Welp, if I’m such an idiot for thinking they’re somehow different, what does it say about the dumbfucks going to the hospital begging for it instead of driving the tractor down the street and getting it?

Gotta hand it to you hicks. You step in your own shit every fucking time.

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Chozen (profile) says:

Re: Re: Good Old Boys

Good old boys been taking horse medicine for decades. It ain’t low quality. Those thoroughbreds is worth more than you are.

Good luck even finding any mention of contaminated equine medications on google. Horse breeders are fricking loaded and they have the resources to and will nail a pharmaceutical company to the god damn wall if contaminated meds kill a horse.

Again that horse’s life is wort more than your life. So why do you think its medications are inferior to yours?

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Chozen (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:2 So?

So? I’d feel more conferrable taking an equine version intended for a $12M racehorse than some drug made for you. You life isn’t worth a fraction of that horses life. Lots of examples of contaminated human medications, very few equine. There is a good reason for that. Big Pharma is more afraid of a billionaire breeder and their army of lawyers suing them for killing a prized race horse than they are of your broke ass family suing them for killing your worthless ass.

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Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Your argument is bad and you should feel bad.

Some anti-parasitics may be capable of blocking viral transmission, but that doesn’t mean all anti-parasitics are capable of blocking viral transmission. Ivermectin, according to actual scientific studies carried out by people who know what the fuck they’re doing, is not capable of blocking the virus that causes COVID-19 (or capable of treating COVID-19 once someone has it).

And the woman in your hypothetical bears responsibility for her refusal to take a medicine prescribed to her by her doctor. People telling the truth about Ivermectin⁠—including the fact that it is an anti-parasitic instead of an anti-viral⁠—are not to blame for her mistaking Ivermectin for an entirely different drug that is known to treat a viral disease. (Or, as you might put it, for her being “hysterical”. Nice subtle sexism, by the by.)

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Chozen (profile) says:

Re: Re: "Horse Dewormer"

The hysterical statement “horse dewormer” doesn’t mean

“Ivermectin, according to actual scientific studies carried out by people who know what the fuck they’re doing, is not capable of blocking the virus that causes COVID-19”

When you hysterically scream horse dewormer all you are saying is that an anti-parasitic cant treat a virus.

You are moving the goal posts because you know the argument is flawed and dangerous.

“Horse dewormer” used in this context is a false medical statement. It is misinformation that could later cause harm to people who end up believing anti-patristics cannot treat viruses.

Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:

When you hysterically scream horse dewormer all you are saying is that an anti-parasitic cant treat a virus.

No, I’m saying that one specific anti-parasitic (known largely for being a horse dewormer) can’t treat one specific virus⁠—that ivermectin can’t treat COVID-19. If a different anti-parasitic can treat a different viral disease, great. But that doesn’t make ivermectin an effective treatment for COVID-19.

You are moving the goal posts because you know the argument is flawed and dangerous.

Says the dipshit who literally put forth the argument that one anti-parasitic being able to treat one viral disease somehow means all anti-parasitics can be used to treat viral diseases of some kind.

“Horse dewormer” used in this context is a false medical statement.

No, it isn’t. Ivermectin’s most ubiquitous use is as a deworming agent for equines. That a version of the drug meant for use on humans exists doesn’t take away from the fact that it is largely used as a horse dewormer. Get a better argument or fuck off, Cholera.

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Chozen (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:2 Not Falling for It Stephen

“No, I’m saying that one specific anti-parasitic (known largely for being a horse dewormer) can’t treat one specific virus⁠—that ivermectin can’t treat COVID-19. If a different anti-parasitic can treat a different viral disease, great. But that doesn’t make ivermectin an effective treatment for COVID-19.”

I know exactly what you are saying. You are moving the goal posts.

I’m not here to argue the efficacy of ivermectin. By hysterically screaming “horse dewormer” Tim is practicing medicine without a license implying quite clearly that an anti-parasitic cant treat a virus. That is objectively false medical disinformation that could conceivably kill people who believe it.

Tim is a hypocrite for criticizing Rogan for giving medical advice when not being a doctor when he is clearly and doing the same thing and is objectively wrong.

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Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:3

I know exactly what you are saying.

You don’t, but keep pretending you do. It’s kind of hilarious in an incredibly sad way to see you flail around with shitty arguments against people who can out-argue you any day of the week and twice on Taco Tuesday.

Tim is a hypocrite for criticizing Rogan for giving medical advice when not being a doctor when he is clearly[ ]doing the same thing

He isn’t doing that, no matter how much you want to believe otherwise, and you’ll find no one here willing to take that argument seriously who isn’t also a trollish asshole like you.

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Chozen (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:4

“He isn’t doing that, no matter how much you want to believe otherwise, and you’ll find no one here willing to take that argument seriously who isn’t also a trollish asshole like you.”

I dont expect to find anyone here who agrees with me. You are all a bunch of misfits. You are all thats left after Mike went nuts in 2016. You are the absolute bottom of the barrel.

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Chozen (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:8 Thanks For Proving the Point

Thanks for proving my point. Your little echo chamber tries to run off every single person who doesn’t agree with your groupthink then believe you are superior because everyone agrees with you.

This entire comment section could a test subject for a phycology lecture on group think and othering.

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Chozen (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:10 One Problem

The problem would be that you think anything that disagrees with your world view is false propaganda. I understand you a lot better than you understand me because I make an effort to understand the psychology of the people I’m dealing with. You can’t do that because you regard studying the contradictory view as endorsing it. This cripples you intellectually.

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Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:11

The problem would be that you think anything that disagrees with your world view is false propaganda.

…says the dude who keeps trying to generalize the specific and lying about what other people have said to avoid “losing” a discussion.

I understand you a lot better than you understand me because I make an effort to understand the psychology of the people I’m dealing with.

…says the dude who literally threatened to assault someone over even the most minor insult but thinks the people calling such behavior “childish” are the real children.

You can’t do that because you regard studying the contradictory view as endorsing it.

…says the dude who tried to argue simultaneously that Facebook’s Terms of Service both are and aren’t a legal contract.

This cripples you intellectually.

…says the dude who claims to have four different degrees but is regularly outsmarted, out-argued, and generally outclassed by someone with a motherfucking GED.

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Mike Masnick (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:11

The problem would be that you think anything that disagrees with your world view is false propaganda.

Not even remotely true. We’ve had many commenters here who have disagreed with my positions, who do so respectfully and back up their arguments with facts.

And then we have complete fucking morons like you who spew nothing but nonsense, idiocy and propaganda. It’s not that hard to tell the difference.

I understand you a lot better than you understand me because I make an effort to understand the psychology of the people I’m dealing with.

Lol. Every assumption you’ve ever made about me has been wrong. So, dude, you fucking fail if that’s what you’re doing.

You can’t do that because you regard studying the contradictory view as endorsing it.

I’ve got more experience studying idiot trolls like yourself than you have doing anything in your life. And I’ve always embraced contradictory views on things, because exploring where and how people differ is a useful exercise. But that’s only when it involves facts and not nonsense.

I gave you the benefit of the doubt when you first started posting here, but you’ve long since shown all of your true colors.

Let me put this bluntly, so someone as dimwitted as yourself might understand: you’re the dumbest type of troll that we get here. You think you’re smart, and you’re at the top of the top of the Dunning Kruger curve. You’re confidently wrong on nearly everything and too stupid to even know why you’re wrong, let alone how you’re wrong. You’re the worst kind of troll. So, kindly, fuck off.

This cripples you intellectually.

Lol.

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Mike Masnick (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:13

Mike I’ve seen the threads you write where anyone who isn’t exactly where you sit on the political compass chart is a “fascist”

This has never, ever, happened. I think the vast majority of people — including the vast majority of people who support this site, sit in very different places on the political compass chart than I do — in part because I don’t sit anywhere on the political compass chart and tend to not agree with people who even think there is a reasonable political compass chart.

The only people I’ve ever called fascists are… fascists. I can only think of one person I’ve ever called a fascist, in fact.

So, once again, Chozen you are either (1) lying (2) so stupid you’re confusing me with someone else or (3) delusional.

Which is it?

Chozen (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:14 Mike You Are the Authoritarian

You are the authoritarian Mike. From my experience people who fall in the capital “L” Libertarian spectrum are frequently awful people in their own lives. Wife beaters, drug addicts, tax protesters, child abusers, most of the most awful people in the world fall into the capital “L” Libertarian. This isn’t because they actually believe it because if they did they would practice it in their own lives. They only exposure such views because it is an excuse to avoid personal accountability.

You are a living example of this. You control TechDirt like an absolute fascist. No one is allowed to disagree with you. You allow you misfits to flag anything that goes against your narrative. Your misfits make it known that that they are actively trying to get people with opposing views to quit.

In short you are a god awful person. You capital “L” Libertarian views are not genuine but an excuse to avoid personal accountability.

Now I will remind that when section 230 goes away, and it will, you will be subject in your real world work to the California’s Unruh Act so I hope you read up on it without section 230 immunity you will be facing massive civil lawsuits for conspiracy to violate civil rights.

PaulT (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:15

As usual, I’m not sure if you’re taking too many drugs or not enough, but you’re hallucinating again and you obviously need to adjust your supply.

You’ll thank me for this advice once you realise that the amount of time and effort you put into attacking other people based on lies and making shit up about a global pandemic is far better spent on something related to the real world.

bhull242 (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:15

You are the authoritarian Mike.

[citation needed]

From my experience people who fall in the capital “L” Libertarian spectrum are frequently awful people in their own lives.

  1. Libertarian is almost the opposite of authoritarian.
  2. Irrelevant.
  3. Again, [citation needed]

Wife beaters, drug addicts, tax protesters, child abusers, most of the most awful people in the world fall into the capital “L” Libertarian.

Again, irrelevant. Not to mention that you have yet to prove that Mike is even a Libertarian.

This isn’t because they actually believe it because if they did they would practice it in their own lives. They only exposure such views because it is an excuse to avoid personal accountability.

So what?

You are a living example of this. You control TechDirt like an absolute fascist. No one is allowed to disagree with you.

[citation needed]

Also, fascism is a political system. It has nothing to do with running a website.

You allow you misfits to flag anything that goes against your narrative.

Or in favor of it. Or indifferent to it. And it’s not just “his misfits” who can do it.

More importantly, stuff that gets flagged is still visible on the site for those who want to read it, so even if true, so what?

Your misfits make it known that that they are actively trying to get people with opposing views to quit.

Not really. Try to get assholes to either stop being assholes or be an asshole somewhere else instead? Yes. Try to get people to stop spamming the same debunked thing over and over again? Yes. But there are plenty of times where someone disagreed with something Mike or someone else on Techdirt said and did not get flagged.

In short you are a god awful person.

Even if everything else you said up till now was true, that wouldn’t support this assertion.

You capital “L” Libertarian views are not genuine but an excuse to avoid personal accountability.

Mike has never claimed to be a “capital L Libertarian” or to have “capital L Libertarian” views. He has said that, when putting his views into a political-affiliation quiz, he ends up slightly small-l libertarian, but he has never identified as any kind of libertarian, capital-L or no.

Now I will remind that when section 230 goes away, and it will, you will be subject in your real world work to the California’s Unruh Act so I hope you read up on it without section 230 immunity you will be facing massive civil lawsuits for conspiracy to violate civil rights.

Elsewhere, when asked what Unruh Act violations he would be allegedly liable for if not for §230, you said it had to do with his alleged work as a consultant, supposedly advising clients to discriminate against certain political views. Not only would that likely not be a violation of the Unruh Act, and not only is that purely assertion without evidence on your part that he even does such a thing, but that has nothing to do with §230 as Mike’s speech is his own, and §230 does not prevent liability for your own speech.

So, one last time, [citation needed]

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PaulT (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:2

“No, I’m saying that one specific anti-parasitic (known largely for being a horse dewormer) can’t treat one specific virus⁠—that ivermectin can’t treat COVID-19. If a different anti-parasitic can treat a different viral disease, great. But that doesn’t make ivermectin an effective treatment for COVID-19.”

If I’m willing to give the wilfully ignorant and believers of fictional narratives a small point, I will just say that while the horse dewormer shit was very funny, there is a human version available (but needs to be prescribed, hence the morons going buck wild in the feed store when competent doctors told them to fuck off). That human version has been shown to have to some small positive effect on fighting COVID.

However, there’s some caveats which some cult members would choose to ignore. One is that it seems to have some small positive effect on fighting active infections. In other words, the people happily munching on apple flavoured horse paste are doing nothing to prevent it. The second is that the areas where the effectiveness is seen are places in the world where there are high levels of parasitic infections.

In other words, if you’re infected with a parasite and infected with COVID, then Ivermectin taking care of the parasite for you can help the body better fight COVID.

Just another simple fact that will be twisted out of all proportion by idiots who scream about how they’re too weak to take basic healthcare measures to help everyone, but they’ll happily eat themselves into hospital to own teh libz or something, then complain when everyone laughs at them for it.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:2

You seem unaware about the role and scale of human usage of ivermectin.

“..few, if any, other drugs can rival ivermectin for its beneficial impact on human health and welfare..

During 2016, well over 900 million donated ivermectin tablets should be dispatched, representing more than 325 million treatments.”

nature.com/articles/ja201711

bhull242 (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:5

Okay, but this article was written by an American, and it is about mostly Americans. This isn’t about Africa or Mexico.

Also, that still wouldn’t be the same as saying that ivermectin is not a horse dewormer. Is it used to deworm horses? If so, then the label is still accurate regardless of whether or not it has other applications. And it certainly doesn’t make calling ivermectin a horse dewormer a claim that no anti-parasitics can be used as an effective treatment for any virus in any situation at all.

Finally, there are idiots who are specifically using the formulation of ivermectin intended to be used to deworm horses and which can be (and has been) harmful when taken by humans. Even if there are formulations which can be used to treat other conditions in humans, this is not that formulation.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re:

“..an increasing body of evidence points to the potential of ivermectin as an antiviral agent.

Ivermectin treatment was shown to increase survival in mice infected with the pseudorabies virus (PRV) [2] and reduced titers of porcine circovirus 2 (PCV2) in the tissues and sera of infected piglets [3]. In addition, Xu et al. reported the antiviral efficacy of ivermectin in dengue virus-infected Aedes albopictus mosquitoes [4]. Ivermectin was also identified as a promising agent against the alphaviruses chikungunya, Semliki Forest and Sindbis virus, as well as yellow fever, a flavivirus [5]. Moreover, a new study indicated that ivermectin presents strong antiviral activity against the West Nile virus, also a flavivirus, at low (μM) concentrations [6]. This drug has further been demonstrated to exert antiviral activity against Zika virus (ZIKV) in in vitro screening assays [7], but failed to offer protection in ZIKV-infected mice [8].”

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7539925/

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Chozen (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re: That Isn't the Issue

Don’t let the misfits suck you into the trap. The misfits want to reframe the issue into a specific debate after lead misfit Tim implied something that is objectively false and objectively dangerous medical disinformation, that an anti-parasitic cant be an anti-viral.

Its dangerous to puglic health to imply that a dewormer cant treat a virus because deormers do treat viruses. That is an objective fact.

Don’t get into the muck with these misfits.

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Chozen (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:3 Many of the Articles Are Very Good

I have way more degrees than you.

BS CS
BS CPE
BS EE
MS EE

The articles here are actually very good when Mike doesn’t get too political. The problem is him letting his misfits run rampant. I’m told the discussion board used to be very good here but 2016 Mike when full TDS and cut off his nose to spite his face.

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Chozen (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:5 No you Just Don't Get It

I’m arguing that screaming “horse dewormer” in this context is objectively false medical disinformation. As the author is implying that anti-parasitics cant treat viruses which is objectively false medical disinformation. You are trying to have an argument over specific efficacy of ivermectin. Who’s argument is shitty?

Even if ivermectin cant specifically treat COVID that doesn’t make his statement any less medical disinformation.

This comment has been deemed insightful by the community.
Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:6

I’m arguing that screaming “horse dewormer” in this context is objectively false medical disinformation.

And it’s a shitty argument.

the author is implying that anti-parasitics cant treat viruses

No, they’re implying that one anti-parasitic (ivermectin) with a long history of ubiquitous use as a horse dewormer can’t treat one viral disease (COVID-19). Stop reading shit in bad faith because you want to troll these comments and stir up confrontation with people you despise, and maybe you wouldn’t come off like such a fucking moron in spite of all the degrees you claim to hold.

Who[se] argument is shitty?

Yours is.

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Chozen (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:7 I Don't Care

“No, they’re implying that one anti-parasitic (ivermectin) with a long history of ubiquitous use as a horse dewormer can’t treat one viral disease (COVID-19). ”

I don’t care. You are not the author. The author made an objectively false medical statement that is fundamentally dangerous. You are trying to reframe the issue and move the goal posts. I’m not biting at all. I’m not debating the efficacy of ivermectin against COVID-19 no matter how much you try and change the subject.

This comment has been deemed insightful by the community.
Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:8

I don’t care.

Yes, yes, you’re a nihilistic deathseeker who also doesn’t care about factual arguments, we get it.

The author made an objectively false medical statement that is fundamentally dangerous.

No, they didn’t.

You are trying to reframe the issue and move the goal posts.

In metaphorical terms, you’re arguing American football rules in soccer.

I’m not biting at all.

…says the guy who says he has a bunch of degrees but keeps replying to someone with a GED who has managed to out-argue every argument you keep putting up.

I’m not debating the efficacy of ivermectin against COVID-19

Good, because there is no debate on that front, save from plague enthusiasts.

This comment has been deemed insightful by the community.
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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:4

I have way more degrees than you.

You have already proved to us that does not make a person smart.

Like that time when you thought a public house meant public housing?

So, you’re still an idiot no matter how many degrees you pretend to have.

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K`Tetch (profile) says:

Re:

No, that isn’t ‘practicing medicine’, that is ‘repeating established pharmacology’.

And yes usually antiparasitics are not antivirals, they’re two different things.

I’m amazed you managed to type all that though, because all that twisting and spinning you had to do would have left me too dizzy to write anything resembling english. Is it due to practice, or is there a ‘special trick’ like dancers use to avoid getting dizzy when they do some crazy spinning?

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This comment has been deemed insightful by the community.
sumgai (profile) says:

I have way more degrees than you.

BS CS
BS CPE
BS EE
MS EE

Allow me to be Toom to it:

Assumes facts not in evidence.

One does have to wonder, what the hell brought that on? I mean, no one else mentioned anything like an education beyond primary school, so I’m scratching my head here….

Chozen, I had a degree in EE before you were born, but notice that I don’t brag about it. Reason being, in order to prove it, I’d have to reveal my identity in total, and that’s something where I’d rather look like a braggart than have to give up my anonymity. I think that if you really did have a college education, you’d probably consider more carefully the ramifications of your statements… and then seriously consider emulating my preferred method of sitting back and watching the kids attempt to ruffle the adults’ feathers.

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Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re:

If you don’t like the direction of this site’s commentary post-2016, go read a site that isn’t “insane” to you. Your desire to stir up confrontation and look like a jackass in the process is your problem; nobody who writes and commentates here is going to solve your problem by changing who they are, what they believe, and how they write. Don’t like it? Door’s to your left. Don’t let it hit you in the same hole where you keep all your shit arguments.

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Chozen (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re: Its Called Anxiety Disorder

The “official term” is anxiety disorder. We don’t give every trigger of anxiety disorder its own name genius.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/trump-anxiety-disorder-mental-health-political-divide-us-1.4762487
“In a divided U.S., therapists treating anxiety are hearing the same name over and over: Donald Trump”

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Chozen (profile) says:

Re: Oh God A Boomer Engineer

Oh god a boomer engineer. I thought all you idiots had died. Jesus ain’t nothing relatively dumber than a boomer engineer.

For those that don’t know. Back in the 60s and 70s there wasn’t degrees in interpretive dance theories. So if mommy and daddy had money and you were trying to avoid the draft you had to choose a real major to get a draft deferment.

My field was full of these morons when I first started, civil engineering was far worse. Low IQ morons who were passed through by sympathetic professors who didn’t want to give them the F they earned because that meant a 1 way trip to Vietnam.

Ugh just talking about it gives me flash backs to having to work with these morons in the 00s.

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That Anonymous Coward (profile) says:

Because I am a benevolent sociopath…
(Nah I just want you bitches to suffer along with me)

This is what I picture…
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chozen

Can he be this dumb or just a committed troll paying homage to his favorite show?

(yay first try at hitting moderation on the new version)

Thats gonna leave a mark…
(rage posted replies follow)

Toom1275 (profile) says:

Re:

Those that fell for the Ivermectin scam weren’t all taking human doses of himan medicine here.

Hell, one whose wife had a quack prescribe him human meds received a dose that would have been excessive for a Clydesfale.

But really the only reason most people have even heard the name “Ivermectin” (And Hydroxychloroquine) is because a group of far-right propagandists and medical frauds calling themselves [America’s Frontlime Doctors] (https://time.com/6092368/americas-frontline-doctors-covid-19-misinformation/) and their kickback deals with shady pharmacy websites.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re:

“Most people” don’t live in the United States.

“There are few drugs that can seriously lay claim to the title of ‘Wonder drug’, penicillin and aspirin being two that have perhaps had greatest beneficial impact on the health and wellbeing of Mankind. But ivermectin can also be considered alongside those worthy contenders, based on its versatility, safety and the beneficial impact that it has had, and continues to have, worldwide—especially on hundreds of millions of the world’s poorest people.”

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Chozen (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:2 And There You Go

And there you go medical disinformation, you are claiming an anti-parasitic cant be an anti-viral which is objectively false medical disinformation. Now you could argue that ivermectin’s affect on host heterodimeric importin (IMP) α/β1 doesn’t have a significant affect on COVID-19 specifically but you aren’t doing that. You are instead imaging in a false reductive argument that an anti-parasitic cannot treat a virus which is objectively false.

Its like saying don’t steal because you will go to hell.

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Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:3

you are claiming an anti-parasitic cant be an anti-viral

No, they’re not. They’re saying that ivermectin isn’t a treatment for COVID-19⁠—that one specific anti-parasitic isn’t a treatment for one specific viral disease. You keep taking the specific and turning it into the general as if that makes for a great argument instead of a shitty fallacious one. (Spoilers: It doesn’t.)

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Chozen (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:4 No

No you are trying to say that now because Tim stepped in it making an overly broad overly reductive medical statement about anti-patristics.

You are trying to draw the argument into a specific because you cant win on what Tim said. Again I’m not biting. What Tim said is dangerous objectively wrong medical disinformation.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:2

The “wonder drug” label has to do with diversity in which it is being used for and future potential :

“Today, ivermectin is continuing to surprise and excite scientists, offering more and more promise to help improve global public health by treating a diverse range of diseases, with its unexpected potential as an antibacterial, antiviral and anti-cancer agent being particularly extraordinary.”

Journal of Antibiotics

nature.com/articles/ja201711

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PaulT (profile) says:

Re:

There’s been a number of comedy moments provided to momentarily detract from from the death and injury these people have caused, but Ivermectin provided some of the funniest.

One is the fact that when told by actual doctors that they wouldn’t be prescribed the human formulation of Ivermectin because there’s no real evidence that it works, these people started eating horse paste, which has already hospitalised some, and will probably lead many to severe health problems as bad as or worse than COVID later down the line because they’re taking stuff intended for horses.

The second is that while doing this, they loudly announce that they’re doing it to stick it to “big pharma”, blissfully unaware that it’s made by Merck, the fourth largest pharmaceutical company in the world. Then, they think they’re the clever ones because they’re not following all the sheeple with their “proven to work vaccines” and “basic health measures that are getting the world back to normal”.

You have to take these moments as you can. Now, if only the people who loudly oppose actual medical advice could stop themselves from seeking it the moment they realise they got themselves infected, we should be well on the road to proper recovery.

That One Guy (profile) says:

Re: Re:

Now, if only the people who loudly oppose actual medical advice could stop themselves from seeking it the moment they realise they got themselves infected, we should be well on the road to proper recovery.

Oh if only…

‘You didn’t trust the doctors to know what they were talking about when it came to steps to keep you from getting infected, but now that you are and your life is on the line you’re willing to go beg their help and take up valuable time and bed-space that could be better used by those that are there due to reasons beyond their control? Put your money where your mouth is and stay home, the people you’ve been getting ‘alternative medical advice’ from were good enough for you pre-infection so they should be good enough post-infection.’

Toom1275 (profile) says:

Prominent peddler of COVID misinfo pleads guilty to joining Capitol riot

Dr. Simone Gold, a prominent anti-vaccine doctor who founded a group notorious for widely peddling COVID-19 misinformation, pleaded guilty on Thursday to joining the insurrectionists who violently attacked the US Capitol building on January 6, 2021.

Gold is the founder of America’s Frontline Doctors (AFLDS) and has spent the pandemic downplaying COVID-19, promoting unproven treatments, such as hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin, and casting doubt on the safety and effectiveness of COVID-19 vaccines.

The AFLDS is among the most prominent groups to spread COVID-19 misinformation amid the pandemic. A September 2021 report by the Intercept revealed data that AFLDS and partner organization SpeakWithAnMD.com have made at least $6.7 million by offering online COVID-19 consultations that involve writing off-label prescriptions for ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine and prescribing other unproven treatments.

Gold has used her medical credentials to bolster her pandemic falsehoods and misinformation. However, she told the Post last year that she was no longer working as a doctor. She said she had been “promptly fired” from jobs as an emergency room physician for two hospitals after participating in a July 2020 event, in which she and other AFLDS doctors spread COVID-19 misinformation. The event made headlines for including Stella Immanuel, who has a history of blaming diseases on demons. The event was organized with the support of the Tea Party Patriots group and livestreamed by the conservative media outlet Breitbart, the Post reported.

No anti-vax/pro-Ivermectin that isn’t fraud at its core.

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