Trump Campaign Gets Laughed Out Of Court For Claiming A Bunch Of Unvetted Webform Submissions Is 'Evidence' Of Voter Fraud

from the who-needs-sworn-statements-when-you-have-a-CAPTCHA dept

The Trump Campaign is back in court, hoping to reclaim a presidency Donald Trump has lost. It spent plenty of time in court prior to the election, hoping to prevent as many people as possible from voting. Now, it’s doing the same thing, insisting (without evidence) there’s voter fraud everywhere.

Immediately following Election Day, the Trump campaign opened its own voter fraud hotlines. People who thought they observed voting fraud were encouraged to call the campaign or submit sworn statements via a handful of websites. Both offerings were immediately swamped by pranksters and other non-fans of Trump, tying up phone lines and filling the webform coffers with useless things like, say, the script from “Bee Movie.”

Undeterred by a lack of credible fraud accusations, the Trump campaign still attempted to submit some of its mostly unvetted webform garbage as “evidence” in its Arizona lawsuit. As Adam Klasfield reports, the judge wasn’t impressed by the campaign’s attempt to portray a bunch of statements from internet randos as something worth the court’s time and attention.

A Trump campaign attorney conceded in court on Thursday morning that he tried to enter hundreds of dodgy form-filed affidavits into evidence, even though their own investigation found that a subset of the sworn statements that they received were filled with lies and “spam.”

“This is concerning,” Judge Daniel Kiley, from Arizona’s Maricopa County, remarked with some understatement.

This wasn’t the only laughable assertion by Trump campaign attorney, Kory Langhofer. On the record and in front of a judge, Langhofer said the campaign was confident it had weeded out bot submissions because the site had a CAPTCHA.

Then he got even stupider by claiming the narratives the Trump campaign couldn’t immediately disprove must be truthful representations. Not being able to prove something is a lie isn’t the same thing as finding it to be true, the judge pointed out.

Judge Kiley replied that this did not show the remaining affidavits are trustworthy.

“That just shows you cannot disprove what’s asserted,” Kiley noted.

Then, despite entering the legal arena to dispute alleged fraud, the Trump attorney said it was unlikely anyone actually engaged in fraud.

“This is not a fraud case,” Langhofer said, casting the lawsuit instead as allegations of flaws within the voting system. “It is not a stealing-the-election case.”

It appears the Trump campaign’s lawyer isn’t getting the talking points memos. There have been wild, widespread accusations of voter fraud from both the outgoing president and many of his administration figureheads, which for some reason include his children and his children’s spouses.

The Trump campaign thinks a webform and a hotline that will coddle conspiracy theorists when not swamped by pranksters is going to help it win back an election. Good luck with that. But it will make for some great popcorn munching as the campaign and its attorneys continue to embarrass themselves in courtrooms around the nation until every last avenue for redress has been (in all senses of the word) exhausted.

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Comments on “Trump Campaign Gets Laughed Out Of Court For Claiming A Bunch Of Unvetted Webform Submissions Is 'Evidence' Of Voter Fraud”

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Khym Chanur (profile) says:

In the Detroit case Trump’s lawyer managed to submit several hundred normal affidavits. Why couldn’t they do the same here?

Then he got even stupider by claiming the narratives the Trump campaign couldn’t immediately disprove must be truthful representations. Not being able to prove something is a lie isn’t the same thing as finding it to be true, the judge pointed out.

I mean, the same of true of a normal affidavit. But with a normal affidavit is made under oath, and has some third party verify that the person is who they say they are.

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Ramos says:

Re: Re:

Trump’s problem is that he put buffoon Rudy Giuliani in charge of the legal actions disputing the Election procedures.
That guarantees failure.

There were many serious and valid "irregularities" in the Election that could swing the results — but they must be legally pursued in a calm, objective, andmethodical manner.

Note that in the 2000 Presidential election, the Gore camp fought a highly aggressive court and media publicity battle disputing the election results.
The media supported those efforts — and did not condemn Gore for not quickly conceding to Bush.
The offical election vote count was not certified until December 3rd.
The Media double-standard is obvious.

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Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:3

With a five million vote lead in the national popular vote that is spread out amongst multiple states and and an electoral vote lead that shows no signs of being thrown out by either recounts or Trump’s crybaby legal shenanigans, Biden claiming victory without fully certified results is well within his rights. He is the president-elect until and unless someone can offer proof of widescale voter fraud that leaned in his favor.

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Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:5

You have no way of proving widescale voter fraud to the extent that throwing out the fradulent votes would swing the election in favor of Trump. You’re merely parroting the words of a sociopathic fascist manchild who can’t accept losing at anything and will try to take the country down with him under “if I can’t have it, no one will” logic.

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PaulT (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re: Re:

"Gorw did not publcially say we needed total on election night. And he did not say it was rigged months before."

He also conceded the fight despite having very good standing to continue the fight, with the battle ultimately coming down to a single state where his opponent’s brother was the governor and a great deal of "hanging chad" votes were being rejected at a rate that disproportionately affected minority votes.

That bears no similarity to the guy who got trounced in multiple states and lost the popular vote, but is tweeting from his bunker about how fraud he can’t prove must have happened for reasons.

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Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re:

Trump’s problem is that his legal team, no matter who is a part of it, has yet to produce any proof of voter fraud in any state where they’ve filed these lawsuits. Who leads the team is irrelevant if the team itself can’t back up their claims.

Could the team produce proof of voter fraud? Sure. Could they produce enough proof of voter fraud at a scale so large that it could/would change the results of the election in any given state? No. The states put far too many checks in their systems to ensure the security of the vote.

Who won the election shouldn’t matter if you believe the process is corrupt because under that mindset, either candidate will have won through a corrupted process. So if you think the entire electoral process is corrupt, for what reason should you have trusted it if the election had gone in favor of Trump?

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PaulT (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re: Re:

"Trump’s problem is that his legal team, no matter who is a part of it, has yet to produce any proof of voter fraud in any state where they’ve filed these lawsuits."

They’ve provided "proof". Which is to say, they have a bunch of random anecdotes that convince some of the less intelligent base, and that’s the only crowd Trump has been trying to talk to while he was slowly killing them anyway.

"Who won the election shouldn’t matter if you believe the process is corrupt because under that mindset, either candidate will have won through a corrupted process."

Exactly. If enough fraud happened to have caused Biden to have won both the popular vote by 5 million votes and the EC by such a large margin, the entire system is gone. The US have invaded countries over less corrupt elections than the Trump team is claiming the just went through, and the last thing you’re allow in such a situation is the guy claiming it’s corrupt to stay in office unchallenged.

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Scary Devil Monastery (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re: Re:

"Trump’s problem is that his legal team, no matter who is a part of it, has yet to produce any indication of voter fraud in any state where they’ve filed these lawsuits."

Fixed that for you. If only it was proof he was lacking this wouldn’t be quite so pathetic. But the reasons for the lawsuits he has given…

Republicans not present to verify the voting – turned out to be outright lying.
A produced post-it note from an unknown source stating an unidentified person had seen another unidentified person putting two ballots in the box.
"Witnesses" saying they had observed "bad things" happening – who could not be named, shown, presented to the court, or anything else indicating it was something other than "some guy in a pub dun told me dem democrats would be cheatin’".

What’s next, a crayon drawing of a black man putting a fistful of ballots in a box with a diabolical grin? Kenneth Copeland receiving a message from on high that the dems have stuffed the ballot boxes while laughing in tongues?

Before you even get to where actual proof is required you first need a case. And a case needs more than just going before a judge and screaming "Some guy I don’t know told me he saw libtards stuffing ballot boxes in a place I don’t recall while we were in a pub I can’t remember!"

Gore was able to state concrete reasons about one specific state where the governor had a proven vested interest in his opponent winning. I’d say that’s fair grounds for a closer look.

Claiming republicans weren’t present to monitor proceedings while, in fact, they were, is not.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re: Re:

"Voter Fraud" is much different than the big category of "Election Fraud".

The legal case is quite strong in Pennsylvania that partisan court judges illegally chamged State voting law to extend the deadline for receipt of mail ballots.
The US Supreme Court seemed quite interested in this legal issue.

This issue alone could make Trump the winner.

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That One Guy (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:5 Oh look, the rats are jumping ship...

Eh, I kinda lost all interest in playing ‘nice’ or giving any benefit of the doubt when it comes to that lot after four years of them backing Trump to the hilt, but I suppose I can narrow my statement to only cover those who are just as delusional, corrupt and desperate as Trump and refuse to accept reality.

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Scary Devil Monastery (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:5 More counted votes => more democracy.

"You should not paint all the Republicans with the same brush…"

They’ve spent four years being the silent or actively approving accomplices. So yes. Yes, we should. After Trump’s first few atrocities the republicans who did not speak up and change their party became the silent accomplice.

Bridging the gap? Why? Why would anyone want to bridge the gap to people so horrible they consider racism, bigotry and fascism acceptable as long as it came with the goodies they wanted? Why would you even want to know someone like that, or admit such people in your circle?

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TKnarr (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:2 Re:

The problem you have is that in Pennsylvania the votes in question are already segregated from the rest and haven’t been included in the reported counts. So if Trump wins his case there and gets those ballots thrown out, the results remain unchanged and Biden is the winner.

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PaulT (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:

"Trump’s problem is that he put buffoon Rudy Giuliani in charge of the legal actions disputing the Election procedures"

No, Trump’s problem is that he was the most credible person he had available to do it. If there was better evidence he wouldn’t need to depend on the guy who mistook a landscaping company for a luxury hotel because he was too tired trying it on with Borat’s plants.

"The media supported those efforts — and did not condemn Gore for not quickly conceding to Bush."

Because the fight basically came down to Florida, where W’s brother just happened to be the governor, and Gore had won the popular vote, albeit by a narrow margin.

That is nothing like the election where Trump got trounced in multiple states and got beaten by 5 million popular votes overall.

"The Media double-standard is obvious."

To people who ignore context and reality, sure.

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Scary Devil Monastery (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re: Re:

"No, Trump’s problem is that he was the most credible person he had available to do it. If there was better evidence he wouldn’t need to depend on the guy who mistook a landscaping company for a luxury hotel because he was too tired trying it on with Borat’s plants."

In all fairness I found that the imagery of Giuliani standing before a landscaper’s loading dock right between a crematorium and an adult toy store was a very credible presentation of Giuliani.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:

Hello Mr. Paid Troll.

There were few real voting irregularities, almost all of the real ones in favor of the Republicans, but still were not enough to directly swing the vote. Although if you count add on effects of the voter suppression efforts in NC, it may have been enough.

The main 3 well documented true cases:
1) A group of democratic voters in NC was pepper sprayed on it’s way to the polls by the police. How many of them failed to vote afterwards is not known. How many additional voters stayed home because of this is unknown.

2) The post office decommissioned many of the mail processing machines before the election and was unable to deliver thousands of ballots on time. They post office also ignored a court ordered requiring them to put extra effort into making sure ballots were delivered on time. A vast majority of the mail in ballots were cast by democrats. So democrats were likely disproportionately effected.

3) A man in Pennsylvania attempted to get an absentee ballot for his dead mother so she could vote for Trump postumasely. He was caught and arrested.

Usually all the claims of dead people voting turn out to be a poll worker having marked off the wrong person as having voted. This election has been different. All of the claims of dead people voting and registering to vote so far this election have been peole with the same name as a dead person voting or registering to vote. This just shows how little the current Republican party cares about the truth. They can’t even be bothered to figure out which John Smith voted, the one who is alive, or the one who is dead.

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bhull242 (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:

Here’s one major difference: the electoral college vote in 2000 was close enough that one state’s (Florida in that election) electoral votes could change the result. That’s not the case here: the results in multiple states would have to change for Trump to win.

Additionally, none of the states’ individual margins (not even Georgia’s) are anywhere near as close as Florida’s was in 2000 where a recount would feasibly make a difference. Furthermore, the issues in that election were more widely accepted as existing by both sides than in this election.

It is well established by legal, political, and historical scholars that if it wasn’t for the Supreme Court stopping the recount in Florida, Gore had a very good chance of winning the 2000 election. Legal and political scholars largely agree that none of the legal challenges or recounts in this election have any real chance of changing the results. Biden’s lead in the key states is too wide and the legal challenges too weak for the final results to change.

I also specifically disagree with this statement:

There were many serious and valid "irregularities" in the Election that could swing the results

With the singular exception on the question of whether Pennsylvania should count late-arriving ballots (as that’s at least arguably not in keeping with that state’s laws), I have yet to see any real evidence of “serious and valid ‘irregularities’” in this election. And even with that challenge, due to the way the votes were counted, we know that even if we remove all of the late-arriving ballots, Biden would still win Pennsylvania and thus the election. And even if the results in PA were reversed, that wouldn’t be enough to change the winner of the election. Again: Biden’s margin of victory is just too large for that challenge to make a difference.

While you could say there were other valid “irregularities” in this election, namely the proportion of the votes that were early votes and the proportion of the votes that were through mail-in votes, these were expected given the amount of interest in this election and the pandemic that’s still around, and those “irregularities” aren’t serious or the sort that could plausibly swing any election results.

I also need to repeat this for emphasis: none of the states are as close in this election as Florida was in 2000 or close enough that a recount or throwing out a few thousand votes will make a difference in any of them, and the electoral college vote is not so close that one state changing will make a difference.

There’s no double standard here. The two elections in question are very different in every relevant way.

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James says:

Re: Re: Re:

Err you got me at "There were many serious and valid "irregularities" in the Election that could swing the results"… as of yet we have absolutely no evidence of many serious and valid "irregularities" other than solely by Trump and his sycophants.

Your statement sounds like the sort of hyperbole coming from the Trump camp and supporters, and which in almost every instance in actual court lawyers for Trump are having to recant and backtrack.

I am reminded of the case this week where when pressed a lawyer representing Trump who was making a claim that there were no republican monitors in the room tried to dance around the issue until when forced to answer upon risk of penalty replied "there were a nonzero number" of monitors actually present and after which further disclosure revealed more then twice as many republican monitors actually present vs democrats.

Any truly valid claims as you say "must be legally pursued in a calm, objective and methodical matter" but as of yet we have no evidence that anyone in the Trump camp is capable of doing so, and we have ample evidence from many, many officials including the republican officials who oversaw the vote count in the majority of states that the election was fair, honest and there were no irregularities of any consequence, and the few that may have occurred were almost always on an individual basis and have no potential to even minutely sway the results.

So when will this be over? When the Trump camp and its supporters stop drinking the koolaid and start to acknowledge reality.

By the way your comparison about Bush vs Gore is a completely false analogy and part of the discussion in media has touched upon whether the two matters bore any resemblance. FYI, the lead lawyer for Bush on the matter is on record as saying they have no similarities at all – completely different legal matters where in play for that problem vs the current situation. Right out of the horse’s mouth…. Its tough to make a point when the facts are against you is it not?

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Bloof (profile) says:

It would be funny if it weren’t guaranteed to lead to republican lawmakers across the US adding even more absurd restrictions to voter registration and million of angry rednecks committing terrorist attacks then electing someone even more openly evil in 2024 because they want America to burn as they’ve been told to believe the election was stolen.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Creating mostly un-true articles bashing Trump with obvious Fraudulent comments bashing Trump doesn’t convince me that there hasn’t been election fraud for Biden, when there has been, nor does it convince me that Biden should be the president when anyone can look up his name on Techdirt to find years upon years of evidence he is corrupt. Hence, this article is trash and so are the comments, especially with that last bit trashing Trump’s children and family. As if they are the only ones that know that Biden and the entire DNC, including the media are corrupt. There are more than enough examples how corrupt the media and Biden is. This article is along the lines of Trash Trump, make Biden look like he’s not a corrupt SOB, when he is.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re:

That goldarn fAKe nEwS!!! Hail the god-emperor!! Icm with you all the way! Trump campaign definitely hasnt brought the reported case to court, the documents with the lawyers statement are all FAKE, its a dnc scam! They didnt even make a fraud hotline! It was a dumbocratic honeypot!!!1 Trying to make trump voters look incompetent and impotent! The PROOF is FLOODING IN!! Tjey will exPoSE It aLllll! 12 moRe yEaRs!!!

Scary Devil Monastery (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:

Unfortunately it’s impossible to tell whether you’re being sarcastic or a genuine Trump cultist – who actually DO sound like that. Google “The Biden crime family is stealing the election. The media’s covering it up.” and watch the crazy man rant in front of the camera.

Perhaps a /s might help us tell the difference.

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That One Guy (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re: Re:

That one was just brilliant, from the chill response by the guy at the podium(‘Right, where were we?’) to the fact that, as I saw someone point out the ranting loon was clearly expected to be dragged off(‘Come and see the violence inherent in the system!’) and when they just watched he had to wander off when he ran out of steam.

Scary Devil Monastery (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:2 Re:

"…and when they just watched he had to wander off when he ran out of steam."

Yeah, that almost made me feel bad about the crazy man who was all-in to go martyring himself for Dear Leader only to be met with slightly confused pitying gazes until he eventually meandered off, looking like he was about to start crying.

It closely mimics the online version of the modern GOP adherent;

Alt-Right: "Let me speak, I bet you won’t dare let me speak! Because if you’d let me talk I’d reveal everything!!"

Platform: "You have the floor, good sir"

Alt-Right: <Self-destructs>

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Rocky says:

Re: Re:

Creating mostly un-true articles bashing Trump

Care to point out which articles are untrue?

doesn’t convince me that there hasn’t been election fraud for Biden, when there has been

Care to present evidence that there has been election-fraud in favor of Biden?

Hence, this article is trash and so are the comments, especially with that last bit trashing Trump’s children and family.

At no point in this article or its comments are Trump’s family mentioned.

There are more than enough examples how corrupt the media and Biden is.

Care to elaborate?

This article is along the lines of Trash Trump, make Biden look like he’s not a corrupt SOB, when he is.

Biden is not mentioned nowhere in this article. You are conflating that criticizing the Trump Campaign (who on Trumps behest) are waging a baseless legal battle is the same thing as making Biden look good. If you want to take that reasoning to it’s logical conclusion, what does that tell us about Trump who regularly shit-talks anyone who doesn’t agree with him?

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Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:

Trump doesn’t need to concede the election for the results to be legally valid (concession is a mere formality), and he has no conceivable path to victory in the 2020 election that doesn’t involve Republican-contolled state legislatures in “blue” states fucking Biden over by way of screwing with the vote certifications/naming electors who will vote for Trump at the appropriate time.

Trump lost, get over it.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Hey Tim Cushing

Hey Tim, obvious we know who you "favor" running for president, it’s Biden, admit it. You Biden loving idiot. How about you take this trash article Trashing trump and you throw it in the trash where it belongs. There is factual evidence Biden is a POS, there’s plenty of it here on Techdirt that go back years and years of coverage. How about you call Biden up and take his money for writing this article, he’ll pay you for it, if he hasn’t done it already, he’d love you to kiss his feet, because you already are. Oh, yea, bring your Trump trash-talking "friends’ who left comments with you, I’m sure they’d love to kiss his feet with you.

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Kitsune106 says:

Re: Re: Re:

I thought voter ID laws and such would prevent it? And they are claiming rigging in places where their party is on charge or had time to fix it….

Also, if they claim rigged.. should the people who won senate seats hold off until we investigate too? After all….. Fraud they claim is bad and we have to be sure….

Yeah, being logical……

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Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:

they are claiming rigging in places where their party is on charge or had time to fix it

Yeah, funny thing about that: Several states that had to start counting mail-in/absentee ballots on or after Election Day did so because of laws made by the state legislatures — Republican-controlled ones, more often than not — that set such rules. Trump should look at his own party if’n he wants to blame anyone for all the so-called late votes.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:2 Re:

Well, the same applies for Russian influence then, Trump had 4 years to make sure that Russia would support him again, and he failed? Or rather the logical explanation is that elections cannot be rigged by mail in ballots or by foreign powers, no matter how hard you try to make it look like a possibility?

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:3 Re:

Russia did support Trump through this election with their disinformation campaign and it worked. It just wasn’t enough to overwhelm all the voters who wanted him to no longer be our president. Without Russia’s interference he probably would have lost by an even bigger margin, going from "big loser" to "historically huge loser".

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:4 Re:

Russiagate was debunked by Aaron Maté, haven’t you been clued in about it yet? So, your Russia comments are FAKE.

sources

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zey2jlx37CI

But since you support Biden by defending him. Here’s your champion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BusmxznLDOo&t=585s

and
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRjCaWnrsts

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:8 Re:

which is exactly the point – same people (Brennan, Clapper) that lied to the Senate recently under oath, lied us in the Iraqi war, and consider Assange and Snowden enemies of the security state because they uncovered crimes which they tried to keep secret.Zero credibility and dossiers (steele and others) debunked over and over. The intelligence community never provided solid proofs on russiagate, and the lack of evidence is the ONLY reason why there were no indictments after a 2 years long probe, and no impeachment. In the past, other investigations led to impeachment and resignation of sitting presidents. Based on evidence. Russiagate did not. the Clinton emailgate did not. this is a fact. Russia gate and supposed election frauds are good for the Twitter tribunal only, and as click baits for an increasingly emotional and immature public, which on both sides got used to cry "they stole my election". we had four years of "the Russians did it with 100k dollars in facebook adverts" now we will have four years of "the Chinese did it by voting Biden via mail directly from China and they hacked my coffee machine in the process to demoralize me"

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:9 Re:

you can also see it this way: there is evidence that many parties try to manipulate the elections, and that in some cases they breach the law by doing so, and are prosecuted for that (manafort for example). But there is no evidence that US elections can be (or were) manipulated by any malicious foreign or internal actors to the enormous scale necessary to change the result of any presidential election.

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PaulT (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:10 Re:

"the enormous scale necessary to change the result of any presidential election"

Erm, no. The 2016 election basically came down to less than 80,000 votes in Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin – or 0.06% of the total vote. That’s well within the typical margin of error, hardly an enormous feat.

Whether or not it was actually swung by Russian interference is another question, but we’re talking about the small number of votes needed to have the EC votes go one way, not the much larger number of popular votes that would be very difficult to manipulate.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:11 Re:

sure, but there are countless groups, lobbies, associations pressuring voters one way or the other, all of them competing for the very same 80,000 votes, every single election, because of how the Electoral College works. When I write about the "enormous scale" I mean that there is no proof that a malicious entity could alone shift the balance made of thousands of legitimate parties campaigning for their own ideas and candidates, and make that one significant difference that "controls" the election outcome. Pin-pointing the result of the election on a single fact (russia, china, mail fraud and so on) is the first step of the "someone/something stole my election" narrative. It is worrisome to me that so many people fall into this trap.

PaulT (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:12 Re:

I disagree with the idea that a single entity could not be able to swing that number of votes, especially when you consider they aren’t necessarily working alone. For example, if a bunch of low information voters are having their votes swung by misinformation on Facebook, and Facebook also want an R victory, they may be willing to let that misinformation slide and/or make the corrections to the misinformation less visible to the target group. That doesn’t mean that Facebook are working for the Russians posting the misinformation, but the effect is that the people trying to manipulate the election get what they want.

One of the sad things the last few years have brought starkly to light is that for every voter who carefully considers their positions and their vote, there’s a bunch of other people who will just believe whatever some meme told them and vote accordingly. So, manipulation of those groups in the numbers actually required to swing elections is rather easier than you’re making it out to be.

We can argue all day as to whether the known manipulation attempts have actually resulted in the election being swung. But, it sure as hell is possible. Especially in the current climate where people trying to correct the misinformation are the ones being attacked as an ideological enemy in some quarters.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:13 Re:

well – we almost completely agree then ) . I also think that this "possibility" of voters manipulation has been steadily increasing in the last 20 years as it is inversely proportional to the quality of the public debate on media and social networks, and most importantly, to the quality of education (intended as the development of critical thinking, not mindless absorption of concepts). I am more and more tired of debunking idiot conspiracy theories. And I am frightened by the traction that batshit crazy political ideas get – there is a lot of extremism fueled by rabbit holes and it has been increasing. Very sad indeed.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:11 Re:

80,000 votes in Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin – or 0.06% of the total vote.

That calculation looks screwed up. From the top of my head.

  • Michigan is about the size of Sweden. Close to 10 million total population, approximately.
  • Pennsylvania is somwhat larger, at roughly 12 million plus total population.
  • Wisconsin is half the size of Pennsylvania, at about 6 million total pop. Comparable to Denmark.

So adding up, I get a number south of 30 million total population in the three states.

0.06% is close to 0.05%. Five percent is 1/20. Point-five percent is 1/200. So 0.05% is 1/2000. Inverting and multiplying, 2 thousand times 80 thousand would be 160 million. (That is, 0.05% of 160 million is the 80,000 number you gave).

You had just better not be having anywhere near 150 million total votes out of a total population that’s south of 30 million.

Your numbers look very screwed up. Please actually find the correct numbers, and give us hyperlinked references, instead of relying on memory.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:13 Re:

0.06% of the TOTAL votes, i.e. nationally.

Ok. The NATIONAL total. That’s better.

But then I don’t understand what you meant by “typical margin of error”. Out of that same earlier comment, you wrote, with one insertion:

80,000 votes in Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin – or 0.06% of the total [national] vote. That’s well within the typical margin of error…

I elided the second sentence, but that’s the actually statement that caught my eye first, and caused me to question what you’re trying to communicate.

Are you saying that 80,000 votes is within some “typical [national] margin of error”?

‘Cause if you are, then I’m going to ask just exactly why an actual vote margin within three states is comparable to a “[national] margin of error”? Maybe it’s just early on a Saturday morning, but on close examination, you’re not making sense to me.

nasch (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:14 Re:

He’s saying only 0.06% of total votes needed to be swayed, if they are carefully chosen in the proper places. I think the margin of error comment is just pointing out that this is a very very small chunk of the electorate that needs to be influenced, not some tremendous feat impacting the entire population of the US. Whether it is actually within any particular measurement’s margin of error is beside the point (if I have understood correctly – the comment was not mine).

PaulT (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:15 Re:

"He’s saying only 0.06% of total votes needed to be swayed, if they are carefully chosen in the proper places"

Bingo. It’s trivial in a system that in the same election allowed 2.8 million votes to be effectively discounted because they were cast in the wrong location.

"I think the margin of error comment is just pointing out that this is a very very small chunk of the electorate that needs to be influenced,"

Yes. A national recount might have revealed more votes than that having been miscounted in the first count, but a targeted misinformation campaign probably swung votes by more than the margin error in specific counties.

PaulT (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:14 Re:

"Are you saying that 80,000 votes is within some “typical [national] margin of error”?"

No, I’m saying that 0.06% is well within the typical margin of error. Which it is in pretty much any vote.

"xMaybe it’s just early on a Saturday morning, but on close examination, you’re not making sense to me."

Learn some reading comprehension, then? My only point is that 0.06% of the total vote is not some enormous hurdle to overcome, as the original AC was implying.

Scary Devil Monastery (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:8 Re:

"Multiple intelligence communities have agreed that Russia did interfere using disinformation campaigns."

That didn’t take intel agencies to determine. Gangs of russian trolls crawling all over the internet discrediting Hillary and hailing Trump to the skies was a fairly obvious move.

Less obvious perhaps is the time before Trump went up as a presidential candidate when he was blacklisted by every bank in the world and yet still managed to land himself a few hundred million dollars in loans from Deutsche Bank, guaranteed by the russian state bank with, apparently, nothing as collateral.

The biggest interference by russia in the 2016 election may have been the part where I suspect the "self-funded" campaign Trump held was, in fact, paid for by Russia.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:4 Re:

The Russia gate failed miserably to produce results, like the impeachment. The legal challenges by Trump will fail (even if they do uncover some isolated frauds, which in such a large country might very well exist somewhere). And China gate will also fail, should a special investigation be launched on Hunters emails. There is simply not the evidence – except for catching isolated corruption cases, which in any case do not shift the election, only prove that bad people are everywhere. So many people voted against Trump – almost as many voted against Hillary. The reason why the best alternative the us political system could come up with is Biden, well that is the real problem, not some fantasy "rigging" story, whatever side the story of the day is accusing.

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Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:7

I’m also glad the senate didn’t flip. I don’t want Biden having unmitigated power

Congratulations, you’re going to get at least two more years of partisan deadlock as Republicans do their best to stay on the good side of Trump voters (which means fucking over Democrats at every possible chance, even if it means those voters suffer for their desire to “own the libs”).

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:8 Re:

Given how the US government has operated for the last few decades I’d much rather have deadlock than a stream of shitty new laws. Neither the democrats nor the republicans should have the power to pass whatever laws they want without tempering them enough to gain the support of both sides.

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TFG says:

Re: Re: Re:9 Re:

That would be valid if we had two parties that actually had the country’s best interests in mind, with similar goals but different ideas of how to get there.

At present, we have one party that is blowing dog-whistles of oppressive ideologies, actively attempting to discredit hard facts and science, and thereby causing widespread death and harm to people they should be actively protecting instead. The current Republican party is actively trying to harm people.

I’m no fan of the establishment Democrats, but in the choice between "actively trying to harm me" and "might help but probably won’t do enough quick enough" the choice is clear. In the current era, a Democrat majority in the House, Senate, and Presidency is the only way I can see towards real progress.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:10 Re:

Not at all but it’s slightly more reasonable than what each party wants on its own. That’s why I’m a fan of congressional deadlock. They won’t be able to pass much of anything but at least when they do it will be a solid turd instead of diarrhea.

And we’re fucked because we’re a two party system and both parties are extreme polar opposites of one another instead of reasonable, critically thinking people. Now we’re extra fucked because most of the country aligns itself fully with one color or the other and politics has become a sport and spectacle.

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Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:11

it’s slightly more reasonable than what each party wants on its own

Whatever other policies either group has, only one of them is actively trying to erode every barrier that protects the American Experiment from a fascist takeover. And it ain’t the group that nominated Joe Biden, that’s for goddamn sure.

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That One Guy (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:14 'Let someone else make the sacrifice, my comfort has priority'

You kidding, tons of people threw massive tantrums when asked to do nothing more than wear a mask during a deadly pandemic, the very idea of someone with piles of money giving some of it up is clearly nothing short of commie-socialist fueled madness.

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PaulT (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:10 Re:

Mitch McConnell 2016: "I will make it my mission top ensure this will be a one term president"

Mitch McConnell 2020: "I will block anything this government wants to do"

(both roughly paraphrased but that is what he had said)

Reaching across the aisle doesn’t achieve much when the other side of the aisle will reject even the bills they wrote.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:

I haven’t read about any "attack" on Biden? Biden is corrupt, that is a FACT. Trump, well he may have some soft corruption going on somewhere(if you can call it that compared to an opinion). But Biden is far more corrupt than Trump. But if you favor Biden, like many who have commented here appear to be in support of.

The difference between Trump and Biden is Biden will be getting a whole lot more EVIL shit done.

sources

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BusmxznLDOo&t=585s

and
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRjCaWnrsts

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re: Re:

A comedian and something that doesn’t load?

Great sources, Chet. If you wonder why half of the population generally thinks the average trump supporter is an idiot, having a comedian as a news source might be a good place to start looking.

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Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:

Trump, well he may have some soft corruption going on somewhere

He put his family in positions of power within his administration. Several of his cronies have repeatedly violated the Hatch Act. He himself has used the White House for partisan political events. He was impeached because he literally tried to extort a foreign power into attacking his political rival. And that’s all off the top of my head.

If you think that’s “soft”, I’d hate to see your definition of “hard”.

if you favor Biden

I didn’t vote for Biden; I voted against Trump. Biden was simply the only other guy on the ballot who stood any chance of winning.

Biden will be getting a whole lot more EVIL shit done

Hard to believe he’ll top the whole “we’re going to keep immigrants and migrants applying for asylum in concentration camps, separate them from their kids, and send them back to wherever they came from without their kids” thing, but hey, I’m willing to keep an open mind if you are.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:2 Re:

Trump did not violate any act, though you and others may assert this. There is no legal challenge that he has, so no he hasn’t, until it’s proven in a court. Trump did not have cronies, he appointed whomever he thought was best for the job. His family he put into positions were people he trusted more than corrupt political cronies, that’s off the top of my head. Sure, they can be criticized for their faults on whatever, but they strived to help a LOT of people.

Your pitch is as if Trump was all bad and never helped Americans. When Trump helped a LOT of people, a lot of people that needed the help the Obama Administration never did.

Biden has years of on record video and documentation of his corruption with Hollywood, the copyright mafia, for several draconian bills such as SOPA, while most Americans didn’t support it. Also, Biden under the Obama administration was responsible for the separation of kids from their families. Trump put an end to that when news spread to him about it and he went on record stating that.

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7cmxB16eX4

Sources: https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20111115/00240216771/new-study-shows-majority-americans-against-sopa-believe-extreme-copyright-enforcement-is-unreasonable.shtml

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20161119/11341136090/this-week-techdirt-history-sopa-retrospective.shtml

and

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20111114/10493316765/vp-joe-biden-explains-why-sopa-protect-ip-are-anti-american-bad-idea.shtml

Thanks for voting for Biden, chucklefuck, and to everyone else who voted for him. Biden is going to screw a Whole lot of southerners and law enforcement who need funding, the border wall built to keep violent drug/human traffickers from coming to America, you suck.

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That One Guy (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:3 Re:

Thanks for voting for Biden, chucklefuck, and to everyone else who voted for him.

You’re very welcome! Really enjoying owning you conservatives. By the way, fuck your feelings.

Biden is going to screw a Whole lot of southerners

Not as much as covid and a general lack of education is – amirite?

and law enforcement who need funding,

You mean cops who have no duty to protect? Yeah, fuck them. Besides, I have my 2A and my guns that Obama never took.

the border wall built to keep violent drug/human traffickers from coming to America, you suck.

I thought you were going to build it and Mexico was going to pay for it? Didn’t trump build millions of miles of it from the Mexican check and the revenue the China tariffs has been pouring in?

I think you need to revisit your talking points. You sad sacks are really slacking.

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Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:6

Yeah, uh…I didn’t vote “against” myself because I wasn’t raised to be a conservative or a Republican. I register independent but vote Democrat because until a viable third party candidate comes along, Democrats will do less to fuck up my life and curtail my civil rights as a queer person.

I don’t give a fuck how the rest of my state votes. I vote with my conscience, even if that goes against how a majority of people in this state vote. And fuck you for thinking I should fall in line with a political ideology only because of where I live. I may be a Southerner, and I may be a bit clueless at times, but I’m not that much of a fucking idiot.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:4 Re:

I could care less if the American people paid for the wall or Mexico did or not. The point is, America needed that wall to stem the constant flow of violent criminal gangs/drug/human traffickers. Do your homework and you’ll find that people that live along the border experienced more violence from cartels during the Obama administration than Trump.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:5 Re:

I could care less if the American people paid for the wall or Mexico did or not.

But there was that gimped vet who did the gofundme with Bannon – you remember him? I thought you guys were gonna gofundme the wall when Mexico told trump to go fuck his mother when he called them?

What happened to you guys paying for your own shit?

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:6 Re:

Shifting the conversation to insults on conservatives, Trump etc for the funding of the wall doesn’t mean that the wall is absolutely needed for the safety of many Americans along the border. Voting Biden was a screw you to southerners that depended on that wall to be built for their safety from real drug/human trafficking and murder. Biden doesn’t give a sh*t about Americans, period, voting for Biden, neither do you. Biden’s already in the works planning how he’s going to screw Americans.

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Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:7

Biden doesn’t give a sh*t about Americans

Let’s assume that’s true.

How did Donald Trump prove he gives a shit about Americans? Was it the bungled response to a pandemic that has already killed a quarter-million Americans, the attempts to repeal the Affordable Care Act in its entirety (including protections for people with preëxisting conditions), the push to have SCOTUS hear a case that could dismantle the ACA in the middle of that pandemic, the teargassing of peaceful protesters for the sake of a photo op, the holding of large in-person events that have helped spike COVID cases around the country, dismissing scientific expertise in favor of his own (lack of) expertise in dealing with diseases, or something else entirely?

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PaulT (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:8 Re:

I don’t recall where, but I do remember reading an article somewhere that suggested that fear of illegal immigration was more highly concentrated in counties and states miles away from any border. The border states were more likely to be friendly to immigration. Perhaps the propaganda just doesn’t work on people who can disprove them by looking out their window?

There was a similar study in the wake of 9/11 – people in bumfuck, nowhere, 1000 miles away, were more scared of terrorism than New Yorkers.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:7 Re:

Voting Biden was a screw you to southerners that depended on that wall to be built for their safety

But what about their guns? Weren’t they safe with their guns?

Biden doesn’t give a sht about Americans, period, voting for Biden, neither do you.

That’s right – I don’t care one fucking bit about those ‘fuck your feelings’ americans who are all butthurt now. Suck it up snowflake, and cry harder.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:5 Re:

The US-Mexico border is 1,954 miles long. During Trump’s regime 400 miles of wall have been built with a goal of 450 miles by the end of the year. All but 9 miles of that wall replaced existing wall. In total, 654 miles (including Trump’s wall) of the border currently are walled, 33.5%.

Trump has added 9 new miles of wall in 4 years, 0.46% of the border.

I think I’m safe in saying that his wall has had absolutely zero effect on immigration, legal or otherwise. Perhaps his policies have had an effect, perhaps cartels have found other ways to get their business done that are less noticeable. Whatever the case, Trump’s wall is a complete joke.

Sources:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexico%E2%80%93United_States_barrier
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_wall#:~:text=By%20September%2025%2C%202020%2C%20321,replaced%20old%20or%20broken%20barriers.

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Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:3

Who, exactly, did Trump help? Because the way I see it, the only people he tried to help were the people who voted for/supported him. He railed against supporters of the Movement for Black Lives (including Colin Kaepernick, whom Trump once called a “son of a bitch”). He threatened to withhold funding from “blue” cities/states unless they kissed his ring. He showed no interest in having the U.S. federal government coördinate a national response to a pandemic that has killed nearly a quarter-million Americans. He banned transgender people from serving in the military and installed federal judges (including three Supreme Court justices) who seem more than willing to roll back LGBT civil rights by anywhere between 5 and 50 years. Any “help” Trump gave to any group of Americans was done so with the explicit idea that this was a debt of sorts, which he wanted repaid on Election Day 2020 in the form of a second term.

Trump doesn’t see other people as people. He seems them as either tools or fools — as useful idiots who can help him (e.g., conservative Christian evangelicals) or subhuman idiots who stand against him (e.g., every Democrat, every “RINO” who has critcized him in even the tiniest of ways). And last I checked, even with all this supposed “help” Trump has given out, the U.S. economy is spiraling downward because of COVID and the body politic is as divided as ever thanks to Trump stoking the fires of racial division and supporting racists and saying racist bullshit and attacking people of color (especially Black women) with more venom and bile than any White person not named Hillary Clinton or Joe Biden.

Donald Trump went into the White House with a singular vision of who he wanted to help. When he comes out of the White House, he will have fulfilled that vision — because the only person he ever wanted to help was himself. Anyone else whose life improved in some way during the past four years saw their life improve in spite of, not because of, the actions of the 45th president.

But sure, keep thinking Trump helped a lot of people. By the way: How many more people is COVID-19 projected to kill by the end of the year, again?

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Scary Devil Monastery (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:3 Re:

"Biden is going to screw a Whole lot of southerners…"

Yeah, our hearts all bleed for the Very Fine People crying in their beers because Jim Crow didn’t return.

"…and law enforcement who need funding…"

The "law enforcement" better equipped than most armies, which racks up an "innocent civilians killed" rate higher than you find in most third world countries? They don’t need further funding, they need a Haague tribunal hearing.

"…the border wall built to keep violent drug/human traffickers from coming to America…"

You mean that decrepit fence which keeps out absolutely no one and hasn’t, in fact done jack shit because most drug smuggling and human trafficking takes place over ports?

"you suck."

At the end of the day you people decided to stand up in favor of racism, fascism and bigotry just to keep a white supremacist hell-bent on undermining every basic principle he could find in office. I think we’re all real happy not to get any compliments from you Very Fine People.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:3 Re:

And since it’s such a bad thing, and something Obama started, Trump, in all his wisdumb, kept it going.

I wonder how it feels for him and you chimps to agree with an Obama-era policy. Can you tell us how it feels?

And while we’re talking about Obama, let’s also remember that Obamacare is still the law of the land, despite 6 years of trying to repeal it, 2 years of having the entire Congress and executive branch to repeal/replace it, and another 2 years to try harder.

Since you have a boner for Obama and all…

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PaulT (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:4 Re:

"And since it’s such a bad thing, and something Obama started, Trump, in all his wisdumb, kept it going."

There’s a significant difference between the enforcement between the two administrations that changes the acceptability of it. Let’s see if you can work it out…

"let’s also remember that Obamacare is still the law of the land, despite 6 years of trying to repeal it"

Yes, the compromise that happened because Republicans pretended that the US was too incompetent to enact a first world healthcare system was not repealed while the Republicans were in charge. Let’s mull over that for a while..

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:5 Re:

Not true. According to former ICE director Tom Homan, Trump did not seperate children the way Obama did and has thwarted drug/human trafficking across the border.

But I’m guessing you don’t live near the border of the USA and have NO idea how bad things were before under the Obama administration when violence, drug/human tracking was rampant.

Source:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpKtyRGZbNQ

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:7 Re:

Fact is. Trump never locked up children or separated them from their families the way it was implied, that was Obama. Trump improved border security nearly 100%, that wasn’t due to Obama, that was Trump and it is a fact that the drug/huma trafficking nearly stoped entirely because of the border wall. Real law enforcement agencies supported trump including border security, Trump has been dedicated to safety across America.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:8 Re:

entirely because of the border wall

Yeah, I’m sure that extra 12 miles made a huge difference. Must be that big, effective wall was the reason he put all those troops there during the midterms, right? Because of how effective your fucking wall was?

Tell me, if the troops were needed there, did they shoot over the wall, through it, or under it?

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Rocky says:

Re: Re: Re:8 Re:

Fact is. Trump never locked up children or separated them from their families the way it was implied, that was Obama.

I’m afraid you are wrong. During Obama some children where separated from the parents when authorities had concerns for their well-being or could not confirm that the "parents" was in fact their legal guardian. Trump instituted the zero-tolerance policy in April 2018 where they started separating children from their parents en masse, all the while AG Jeff Session put their parents into jail, on which he commented with "If you don’t want your child separated, then don’t bring them across the border illegally."

This is well documented, anyone denying this really needs a reality check.

Trump improved border security nearly 100%

I’m afraid that you are totally wrong:
Border Partol Total Monthly Family Unit Apprehensions by Sector

Trump has been dedicated to safety across America.

Well, if you think using rhetoric that is divisive to inflame people is making America safe you are sadly wrong as evidenced by what has been happening the last years.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:7 Re:

No, Trump did not. Had you watched the clip linked that I watched,Former ICE director Tom Homan stated he had been with ICE since Reagan and that Trump helped border security more than any other president in his tenure with ICE.

He stated under ICE during the Obama administration had to divide families, not so under the Trump administration unless their parents were criminals and had to go to jail and face criminal charges. The same thing happens to any parent when they go to jail in the USA, so you’re wrong.

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Rocky says:

Re: Re: Re:8 Re:

He stated under ICE during the Obama administration had to divide families, not so under the Trump administration unless their parents were criminals and had to go to jail and face criminal charges.

He stated that during the Obama administration they divided families if they thought the children where in danger or if they where unsure if the parents where the real legal guardians, and didn’t happen very often.

The Trump administration on the other hand, instituted the zero-tolerance policy where anyone crossing the border could be considered to be a criminal, even if they went through a border crossing to seek asylum. That meant that thousands of children where removed from the families, and there are still hundreds of children in custody because they have no clue who their parents or family are. That’s fucked up on so many levels, and anyone defending that should be subject to the same treatment for a wake-up call.

Context matters.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Hey Tim Cushing

fyi: Many who voted Biden did so not because they like him, his stated policies or his platform, no – they voted Biden because they did not want another four years of Trump who seems to think he is King … they didn’t want that either.

I still do not understand the cult and how it makes zombies out of what appear to be normal people.

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Scary Devil Monastery (profile) says:

Re: Re: Hey Tim Cushing

"I still do not understand the cult and how it makes zombies out of what appear to be normal people."

Because they aren’t normal. If anything these four years and this election has shown – demonstrably – that one out of three americans is a complete and utter arsehole either so malicious s/he is utterly OK with the racism, bigotry and fascism which has been the repetitive message, or a dumbfuck so ignorant it’s not distinguishable from actual malice any more.

Trump is a symptom. The "cult" is the same as the one which cheered when Cheney advocated torture under GWB and when Ashcroft tried – and largely succeeded – to demolish all constitutional protection with the patriot act.

The message to both americans and elsewhere, is that the US is 30% raging sociopath and so unable to pull off a democratic election those 30% carry the day in every other election.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:2 Hey Tim Cushing

"We can probably all agree that average intelligence in the US is not very smart."

After several decades of reduced funding, poor education policy and a lack of competent administration, what would one suspect might happen? Yes, the general public needs a good education in order to function at higher levels, levels that conservatives fear.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Hey Tim Cushing, and Rocky

Hmm… Are you a Biden supporting idiot? I’m willing to bet you haven’t read a single article about Biden on Techdirt. Just type is name and you’ll have plenty to read. Then turn on some Jimmy Dore, you’ll find even more about how corrupt Biden is.

So are you questioning me with this question as if you are trying to make Biden look good? It’s embarrassing how bad you are at stating facts because trying to trash me, when you obviously are in bias support of Biden with such comments.

Fact is, Trump is trying to get legal victories, you win some, you lose some, it’s whatever he’s trying to do. He’s certainly not being laughed out of court, and he’s certainly not been trying to stop voters, voting legally, that’s for sure.

Obviously you’re really bad at underlining facts, you’d rather be in the band waggon of Trash talkers probably paid by the DNC who monitor online conversations involving their political interest to try and trash anyone who are in opposition to their corruption. So you must be corrupt too.

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Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:

Trump is trying to get legal victories, you win some, you lose some

His legal team hasn’t won a single meaningful case that they’ve brought before a court on the matter of voter fraud in the 2020 election.

He’s certainly not being laughed out of court

You’re not familiar with hyperbole, are you, Squidward?

he’s certainly not been trying to stop voters, voting legally, that’s for sure

Not him personally, but the GOP sure as hell tried, what with all the closing of polling places and attempts to limit who could vote by mail and whatnot.

Also: Trump called for states that were still counting votes — in-person or otherwise — to stop counting votes after Election Day. That would’ve disenfranchised millions of voters who cast their ballots legally. So…yeah, you keep defending that, see where that gets you.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:2 Re:

Last I checked Trump had a legal victory in Pennsylvania, whether you determine that meaningful or not, that’s an opinion, though it may be a fruitless venture in the end. Regardless, Bashing Trump supporters is low. Trump isn’t racist, he’s not a Russian asset. Trump may be disliked by many reading this artcile, and my comments, who wanted him to do what you wanted him to, but to many real voters who supported Trump, they did so without question because he helped them, and they know that Biden is a corrupt piece of garbage.

But hey, maybe you support Biden who’s not planning to finish the wall which has helped law enforcement stop drug/human traffickers, rapist, and murderes across the border, while lining up his cabinet with warprofiteers, warmongers, and backed by the copyright mafia, which you can read all about here on Techdirt if you type Joe Biden.

The moral of what I’m saying and have been saying is not in defense of Trump per-say but that Trump is the better candidate than Biden 100%. Bashing me or his supporters is childish. But I did not vote for Joe or Trump. I know Trump voters who are great people and many more Biden supporters who ar clueless to Bidens corruption and less moral than those who support Trump, because many of them want an end to the rampant crime wave in Democrate lead states and safe borders where drug/human trafickers have for decades taken advantage of weak border protections.

sources:

https://www.techdirt.com/search-g.php?num=20&q=joe+biden&search=Search

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRjCaWnrsts&t=58s

and

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BusmxznLDOo

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That One Guy (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:5 From 'Fuck your feelings' to 'Harsh language is uncalled for'

Funny how the tune changes from ‘It’s a real riot to bash all those libs, and if I have to suffer in the process then that’s fine so long as they suffer more’ when they’ve got the power to ‘Hey now, let’s play nice, no need to say mean things’ when it looks like someone else will get the power.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:6 From 'Fuck your feelings' to 'Harsh language is uncalled for

Have a look at any of the right wing blog sites and you’ll see from their comments that none of them are really interested in toning down anything. They’re just as violent and childish as ever.

So yeah… Fuck your feelings, Trumpsuckers. Your tears are delicious.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:7 From 'Fuck your feelings' to 'Harsh language is uncalled

Well said, coming from someone who supports Biden, who let out over and again, violent rioters, to destroy, loot, extort businesses, assault, harass, and even murder innocent people. Circumvent due process, defund the police and let crime run rampant in every Democrat lead state.

Bravo!

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Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:8

Biden … let out over and again, violent rioters, to destroy, loot, extort businesses, assault, harass, and even murder innocent people

I wasn’t aware that Joe Biden had ordered people to riot, loot, and kill. Or that he did so across the United States. Or that he did so at a time when he wasn’t even in public office.

Remind me: Who was president when George Floyd was killed?

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:9 Re:

George Floyd, you mean the criminal who overdosed while being stopped and died during his resisting of arrest, that neither of the officers new what drugs he was under that caused his irregular behavior. George floyd dying wasn’t Trump’s fault and the media blaming him for it. It was Biden and the majority of the Democrats and the media, and BLM that stated George Floyd was murdered before due process had taken place to determine what happened.

BLM trademark was stolen from someone who created the trademark with the purpose to unite the public with the police with the opposite intent.

The BLM riots came after BLM and the media falsely alleged George floyd was "murdered" were solely responsible for creating chaos across the country with sypathy and hatred for law enforcement altercations that lead to the death of citizens, especially African Americans. Hence, BLM went on a lawless rampage, looting, destroying businesses, harassing, and murdering innocent people, especially who tried to stop their criminal activity or identify them.

The Biden campaign bailed the rioters to continue their rampage across the country. Trump wasn’t responsible for any of the chaos created by BLM rioters, he could only offer aid to the states that requested it. Some took it and law and order was quickly restored. Others refused and the residents suffered.

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That One Guy (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:10 Re:

George Floyd, you mean the criminal who overdosed while being stopped and died during his resisting of arrest,

And like that you utterly demolished any credibility you might have had and made clear that nothing you said afterwards is worth paying attention to because at best you’re honestly getting your information from fatally flawed sources repeating long-debunked talking point and simply don’t realize it, assuming you’re not just flat out lying your ass off.

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Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:10

Wow, you really hate George Floyd for having the temerity to be killed over a fake 20, huh.

George floyd dying wasn’t Trump’s fault

You know what was Trump’s fault? Him not doing a goddamn thing to quell the civil unrest that exploded in the wake of Floyd’s death. He could’ve made a speech asking for peaceful protests amid a troubling time; he didn’t. He could’ve tried to appeal to everyone’s better angels and urged everyone to stay calm; he didn’t. He could’ve asked for justice for George Floyd and a reëxamination of police procedures and such; he didn’t.

Instead, he did nothing. No speeches, no appeals to our humanity, not a goddamn thing. If anything, he made the situation worse by tweeting shit like “when the looting starts, the shooting starts” and sending in unidentified federal agents to kidnap people off the street.

Donald Trump didn’t kill George Floyd. But he didn’t do a damn thing to seek justice for him, either.

It was Biden and the majority of the Democrats and the media, and BLM that stated George Floyd was murdered

The videotape of him being murdered showed he was murdered, too.

The BLM riots

Peaceful protests are not riots, and a fair amount of the property destruction and violence carried out during the actual riots that happened amidst the protests was done by White people (possibly with the intent to stoke further racial division and interracial violence/a “race war”).

The Biden campaign bailed the rioters

[citation needed]

Trump wasn’t responsible for any of the chaos

But he was responsible for escalating by calling for heavier police presences in the streets (which is proven to escalate protesters in return) and sending federal troops into cities to yank people into mobile blacksites.

Trump didn’t start the fire. But he sure as shit didn’t do anything to put it out.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:8 From 'Fuck your feelings' to 'Harsh language is unca

But you got your guns, tough guy!

What the fucking fuck are you "patriots" so scared of? I thought this was the land of the free and home of the brave? And here you are whining about "snowflakes" that you’re supposed to be fully capable of protecting yourselves against…

Why are you relying on the police to protect your trailers? You got your guns, chicken shit!

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:6 From 'Fuck your feelings' to 'Harsh language is uncalled for

According to you that’s your interpretation, but it’s not true. Trump has helped all Americans regardless if you like him or not, it’s true. Soon enough Biden will be the next hated president because he will never come close to helping as many Americans as Trump has.

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Rocky says:

Re: Re: Re:7 From 'Fuck your feelings' to 'Harsh language is uncalled

Soon enough Biden will be the next hated president because he will never come close to helping as many Americans as Trump has.

Well, Trump has soon helped about a quarter of million Americans into a early grave. I doubt Biden can top that…

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Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:3

Trump had a legal victory in Pennsylvania

That victory hardly matters unless it led to enough votes being tossed out that the election swings in his favor. Last I checked, it didn’t, so…yeah…

Bashing Trump supporters is low.

Not really. A lot of Trumpians may not be racist, but Trump’s racism wasn’t a dealbreaker for them in either 2016 or 2020. His disastrous handling of COVID (nearly a quarter-million dead and counting!) wasn’t a dealbreaker, either. Trumpians cared more about hurting libs/Repugnant Cultural Others than they did about their own best interests. For that, I will insult them; if they don’t like that, the snowflakes can run to their safe space (Parler) and complain.

to many real voters who supported Trump, they did so without question because he helped them

Ah, I see, you’re going to discount all the votes for Biden as not coming from “real voters”. That is…that is certainly an approach to take.

maybe you support Biden who’s not planning to finish the wall which has helped law enforcement stop drug/human traffickers, rapist, and murderes across the border

Is that all you care about? Jesus, dude, there’s a quarter-million dead Americans who died because the current sitting president decided he knew more about infectious diseases than actual scientific experts. Do you think “the wall” would’ve prevented that? Christ, get a fucking clue: “The wall” was a campaign promise he never intended to follow through on but kept repeating at rallies because it got a reaction. He played you like a damn fiddle, and you let him.

I know Trump voters who are great people

They voted for an elderly game show host with no experience in either politics or public service to run a country because he promised to keep certain groups of people out of the country, punish people in those groups who were already in this country, and lock up people he hates only because he hates them. I wouldn’t call them “great people” if they were willing to vote for a man who they knew would intentionally inflict pain and suffering upon citizens and non-citizens alike while in office — then voted for him again after he had done so over the course of his four years in office.

many of them want an end to the rampant crime wave in [Democrat-led] states

And “red” states, they’re not dealing with crime waves and drug overdoses? Maybe wish for a president who will work for all Americans instead of only the ones you think are deserving of help.

sources:

Random YouTube videos aren’t going to make me care about your claims, fam.

I’m no fan of Joe Biden. Corruption or not, he is a barely-right-of-center Democrat who is only in office to stop the bleeding Trump has caused and hopefully turn things around to some semblance of normalcy and stability over the next four years. If you want the chaos and despair and hatred and utter heartlessness of the Trump administration for another four years, wait until 2024. I’m sure one of his idiot kids will run for the office, which means you can give your vote to a far more competent fascist.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:3 Re:

But hey, maybe you support Biden who’s not planning to finish the wall

Wait, another thing trump couldn’t get done? Who would’ve thunk that with all that money from Mexico, he had to pilfer from the military to build what, 12 miles of new wall?

Serves you dipshits right for trusting a moron who could bankrupt a casino.

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That One Guy (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:2 Re:

His legal team hasn’t won a single meaningful case that they’ve brought before a court on the matter of voter fraud in the 2020 election.

Mostly true, of the cases I’ve seen mentioned at best you could say he tied on two as it involved observers(of both parties) having more access, but as more observers to better watch things is generally a good thing his ‘win’ isn’t much and it’s certainly not likely to do him much good overall. The rest of his cases though have been laughable dumpster fires, throw out like the garbage they are thanks to being based upon baseless speculation, ‘I head someone else say…’ hearsay and similarly ‘strong’ evidence.

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Bloof (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re: Hey Tim Cushing, and Rocky

‘So are you questioning me with this question as if you are trying to make Biden look good? It’s embarrassing how bad you are at stating facts because trying to trash me, when you obviously are in bias support of Biden with such comments.’

For a non native english speaker, you sure are keen on seeing Trump steal an election.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:2 Hey Tim Cushing, and Rocky

Trump is for law and order. Biden is for war profiteering and a copyright monopoly mafia stooge. In my eyes, Trump is the better candidate. What country I support him from is regardless of these facts I source below. keep on mocking me though and bashing Trump supporters. Many Trump supporters with rational want border security, safety from rampant crime, and peace not war.

If you support Trump, he’s against the lying media, crime, drug/human trafficking and allows states to choose the direction they want to go, many of which have legalized recreational marijuana. Biden, the Crime bill author, war-proteer/monger and his historical collusion with the corrupt copyright mafia lurking around the corner with an entire cabinet of warprofiteers/warmongers, underlines who’s the obvious better candidate and it’s Trump.

sources:

https://www.techdirt.com/search-g.php?num=20&q=joe+biden&search=Search

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkJKOT1FNhA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvMUIT-seK8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRjCaWnrsts&t=58s

and

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BusmxznLDOo

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Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:3

Trump is for law and order.

No, he is for order by any means necessary (see: teargassing peaceful protesters for the sake of Trump getting in a photo-op in front of a church with an upside-down Bible in his hand). He doesn’t give a fuck about the law unless it benefits him.

In my eyes, Trump is the better candidate.

Is that because he attacks the people you hate, or is it because he attacks the people he says you should hate?

he’s against the lying media

…except when it lies in his favor…

crime

…unless he or one of his family members or close associates commits a crime…

drug/human trafficking

…unless it means giving up his Adderall addiction or not letting his foreign-born wife into the country…

and allows states to choose the direction they want to go

…unless they’re “blue” states, in which case they don’t get to choose whether they want to, say, divest funding from police departments to pay for other social programs that could reduce the crime you say he’s so against. After all, what good is a well-run “blue” city/state if it can’t be used as an example of how shitty things can get under Democrat governance instead of Republican/Trumpian rule~?

Donald Trump is a shitty political candidate and an even worse human being who won in 2016 mostly because he stoked the racial fears of “forgotten” White people and presented himself as the only person who could solve all of America’s problems. Your supporting him…well, it doesn’t make you a good person, but I’m sure Trump would consider you a very fine person.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:3 Hey Tim Cushing, and Rocky

"Trump is for law and order. "

I’m curious, what do you think the phrase Law and Order means? Also what about Equal Justice Under the Law? What do you think that means?

What many see in the real world is Law ‘n Order (Rule of Law) being applied to those who lack the ways and means to defend themselves while Rule of Man is applied to the well connected and rich. Two sets of rules, high court and low court. Many white collar crimes are not even investigated, many silly excuses are used, none of them are valid.

Trump is for Trump – that is all. He does not give a shit about anything else, I thought that was quite apparent some time ago but ……

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Bloof (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:3 Hey Tim Cushing, and Rocky

I’m not American either, I care about who’s president of the US because a lunatic like Trump destroying America’s standing on the world stage has emboldened the far right worldwide and has created a power vacuum that far worse players are stepping into.

As for the war profiteer, which president let a middle eastern nation use American troops as mercenaries again? Which one has okayed the selling of weapons and nuclear technology to nations that have absolutely no business having them? Which president has torn up every treaty he could signed by his predecessors purely because they were signed by his predecessors, attacked and insulted the leaders of America’s strongest allies and palled around with dictators refusing to condemn them for assassinating people until he’s left with no choice?

Trump has committed crimes throughout his life, robbing contractors, lawyers, basically anyone who’ll do business with him, giving them a fraction of the money owed then walked away, telling them to sue. He’s currently being sued by one of his rape/sexual assault victims, one of many accusers, by the way, and trying to use the DOJ as hiis personal lawyers on that front. He’s leeched money from the government and accepted money from foreign governments through the businesses he has not divested from, he’s released people around him who’ve been convicted of crimes that benefited him, he’s currently under investigation for many, many financial crimes, but sure, he’s all for law and order.

Trump surrounded himself with Bush era war hawks and his open corruption and incompetence proved to be too much even for them.

Biden is not the best leader America could have, but even on his very worst days he is not a patch on Trump, or the horrors Trump and Pence would inflict on the world when they don’t have to worry about re-election.

Also Jimmy Dore videos? Really? Doomer leftists are great! ‘The centrist candidate isn’t perfect, so let the fascists win and burn everything! Surely we’ll come out completely unscathed and get our way after 8 years of Trump, just like the other parties did in Germany when they stood by and let the Nazis rise to power!’

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bob says:

Re: Re: Re:4 Hey Tim Cushing, and Rocky

What sucks more is that because he wasn’t removed from office I think he still gets a $200,000 a year payment for being president with required secret service protection which his properties can charge outrageous amounts for lodging.

Unfortunately he will be getting money from the US government till he dies or laws change.

PaulT (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:5 Hey Tim Cushing, and Rocky

" I think he still gets a $200,000 a year payment for being president with required secret service protection which his properties can charge outrageous amounts for lodging."

According to the reports on his tax returns, he also has hundreds of millions of debt, whose creditors are likely to come calling once he’s out of office.

Scary Devil Monastery (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:6 Hey Tim Cushing, and Rocky

"According to the reports on his tax returns, he also has hundreds of millions of debt, whose creditors are likely to come calling once he’s out of office."

Mainly Deutsche Bank…and those loans are guaranteed by the VTB, the russian state bank.

The people Trump owes that money to are either shady russian oligarchs or Putin. If it’s Putin he’s probably in the clear because he’s delivered everything Putin could ever want from him.

If it’s the oligarchs I’m guessing he may wake to a find Jared’s severed head in his bed as a kind reminder or debts coming due.

PaulT (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:7 Hey Tim Cushing, and Rocky

Yes, I’m interested in what happens next, although I doubt that they’re just start killing people – we all know Trump doesn’t value human life.

No, if they want to get to him they will go after what he values the most – they will destroy his brand, his money and his legacy. With all the lawsuits in place, the many properties already failing and the legal avenues to call in the debt, they might not even have to do that much.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:2 Hey Tim Cushing, and Rocky

Agreed that I have great sources, especially the Techdirt sources, makes you out to be the fool not knowing who’s who, or what’s what or why I linked the sources. Calling me a fool is like calling Mike Masnick a fool ro writing the articles sourced in the Techdirt link.

Trash talking me for linking factual sources doesn’t make you the better person, it makes you the fool for tring to shut me down for speaking the truth, regardless of the factual sources you may dislike but cannot dispute nore debunk.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:3 Hey Tim Cushing, and Rocky

Calling me a fool is like calling Mike Masnick a fool ro writing the articles sourced in the Techdirt link.

Well, you guys whine like a bitch about the site being partisan. Is this an admission that’s not true?

Better get your shit together, Chet because you’re pissing all over the only thing Koby has in his script.

Tell you what – if you can show me a Biden article where he defrauds a charity and pays a porn star for sex right after wife #3 shat out his kid, maybe you’ve got something.

But until then, fuck your feelings and cry harder. Trump lost, pal.

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Rocky says:

Re: Re: Re: Hey Tim Cushing, and Rocky

The problem with people like you is that you apply one set of rules for "your group" and another set for the "others".

You stated that the only reason people here trash-talk Trump is because they want to make Biden look good, whereupon you then start to trash-talking Biden – which makes you a hypocrite and extremely bad at debating.

And for some reason you think that people who disagree with you or Trump voted for Biden. Here’s a newsflash for you, I didn’t vote for Biden. Now, I do wonder if you can figure out why, but I don’t have any high hopes for it.

Fact is, most of the legal shenanigans Trumps team have tried have been thrown out of court. The case in Pennsylvania is for a couple of thousands votes that was already put aside and never counted, ie they don’t matter one bit.

Fact is, linking to some random dude on YT isn’t presenting facts, it’s presenting someones opinion. You do understand the difference I hope?

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Anonymous Coward says:

Hey Tim Cushing

Your leading statements in this article are FAKE. Trump wanted accountable, legal, in-person voting. Trump stated this, along with many of his aids, who repeated these statements. What he did not want is massive fraud, which has has happened(though maybe not as perceived). The point is, your headline is misleading. Trump was not as you say "laughed out of court", it’s like what happens in any case, either you get what you want or you don’t. It’s a very rare case that anyone gets laughed out of court, so this article is trash. Oh, yea, and the last bit about you trashing his family was really low. This article is trash.

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Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re:

Trump wanted accountable, legal, in-person voting.

And people who weren’t Trumpians generally wanted to not risk their lives for the sake of voting – which is why more Democrat voters did their voting by mail than did the Republican voters who listened to Trump.

What he did not want is massive fraud, which has has happened

Trump’s legal team can’t prove it. How do you expect us to believe you when you can’t prove it, either?

the last bit about you trashing his family was really low

Only if you think people shouldn’t talk about the adult children of Donald Trump, who willingly accepted roles in his administration and implicitly accepted the criticism that they would face by doing so, unless they do so in a way that metaphorically resembles analingus.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:

Democrats and BLM supporters trashed businesses thwarting ppe, and lockdown suggested guidelines. It was OK to do all of that while in a pandemic but not OK to go in and vote with ppe which was in many poling places supplied? Yea, that doesn’t add up. The margins of people dying from Covid are slim, though they are real. People die, people get sick, and people risk their lives everyday driving, those are facts. I don’t see the defense rationale for mail-in voting under the circumstances when all of these other behaviors were OK.

Regardless this argument is an opinion or both sides. Trump just happened to side with the argument I am making and citing likely fraud as one of his arguments.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Hey Tim Cushing

“Trump wanted accountable, legal, in-person voting”

Yes, because he’s already destroyed the country and the post office to such a degree that he could be sure that only his most rabid supporters would be dumb enough to do that if there was another method available.

“ Trump was not as you say "laughed out of court"”

Yet, the failures to achieve ply an alternative reality have been hilarious

“ Oh, yea, and the last bit about you trashing his family was really low. ”

Apart from Barron, his family are all directly complicit in his failure of administration where they were employed, and that’s rich coming from the party who attacked Clinton and Obamas’ daughters before they reached puberty

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Hey Tim Cushing

"Yes, because he’s detroyed the countr and the pot office to such a degree thta he could be sure that only his most rabid supporters would be dumb enough to do that if there was another method available."

Stating that Trump has destroyed the country or the post office is a false statement. Trump has helped many Americans and the post office last I checked is doing just fine.

The Democrats have destroyed many states allowing crime, destruction of businesses in small and large cities abroad. Trump opposed the violence and destruction and offered to send in the national guard, but could not do so without consent from the DEMOCRAT lead states the destruction was happening in. This was NOT Trump’s fault, nor was this him being at fault for our country being destroyed. The country is not destroyed, the post office is doing fine, last I checked when I asked someone today, they mail main stil delivered the mail.

"Apart from, Barron, his family are all directly complicit in his failure of administration where they were employed, and that’s rich coming from the party who attacked Clinton and Obamas’ daughters before they reached puberty"

T
I’m certain that the Trumps family sons*excluding barron) and daughters never attacked the Obamas or his before puberty age daughters. Also, Trump’s family, who have been involved in his administration have done many great things to help a LOT of Americans. To sideline Trumps family as being complicit in only failure and no accomplishments is really low.

But hey, it’s apparent you enjoy bashing Trump and his family, you’re a real champ.

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Scary Devil Monastery (profile) says:

Re: Hey Tim Cushing

"What he did not want is massive fraud, which has has happened…"

You have any indication of that more credible than "Dear Leader said it on twitter so it MUST be true"?

Because that’s the reason every lawsuit so far has been thrown out of court. The judge, upon asking the plaintiff to present the case finds the plaintiff has no case to present. The plaintiff has an outright lie about republicans not being present to monitor (which, it turned out, they were). The plaintiff has an unsigned post-it note from an unknown source which says an unidentified person stuffed two ballots in the box.

The only thing Trump’s lawyers have consistently failed to present is any indication of voter fraud more convincing than "some guy in da pub dun tole’ me dem democrits wur cheatin’".

Let alone something as tangible as proof, Trump’s whole case for claiming there’s fraud relies on Trump himself claiming there must be. That’s it. Full Stop.

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Rocky says:

Re: Re: Re: Hey Tim Cushing

As far as I understand Trump had no problem with absentee ballots, which is what he used himself.

Let us review some examples of what Trump think of absentee ballots:

"I’ve been talking about mail-in voting for a long time. It’s really destroyed our system. It’s a corrupt system and it makes people corrupt."

"They mailed out tens of millions of unsolicited ballots without any verification measures."

"There is NO WAY (ZERO!) that Mail-In Ballots will be anything less than substantially fraudulent. Mail boxes will be robbed, ballots will be forged & even illegally printed out & fraudulently signed. The Governor of California is sending Ballots to millions of people, anyone living in the state, no matter who they are or how they got there, will get one. That will be followed with professionals telling all of these people, many of whom have never even though of voting before, how, and for whom, to vote. This will be a Rigged Election. No Way!"

Seems reality disagrees with your assessment.

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Zonker says:

Re: Re: Hey Tim Cushing

Donald also hasn’t contested Utah’s results despite it being all vote-by-mail since 2013 (probably because it voted in his favor).

In fact, Donald hasn’t contested the results of any state that are all vote-by-mail states (Oregon 2000, Washington 2011, Colorado 2013, Utah 2013, Hawaii 2019).

The only states he has contested still have in-person voting as an option despite the pandemic.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Hey Tim Cushing

"Trump wanted accountable, legal, in-person voting."

Please explain how in person voting makes voting accountable whereas other methods are not.

Please explain what fraud was feared by the present administration and what fraud they actually uncovered.

Face it, you are a fraud.

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PaulT (profile) says:

Re: Re: Hey Tim Cushing

"Please explain how in person voting makes voting accountable whereas other methods are not."

Because D voters are more likely to be sane and not risk their actual lives in the face of a global pandemic, they are more likely to vote that way.

"Please explain what fraud was feared by the present administration and what fraud they actually uncovered."

From what I’ve heard, some R voters were intimidated by black people also voting, while some others imagined that TV vans unloading their equipment might have been votes being uploaded.

Scary Devil Monastery (profile) says:

Re: Re: Hey Tim Cushing

"Please explain what fraud was feared by the present administration and what fraud they actually uncovered."

Well, so far their whole case appears to be "Democrats voted! It’s NOT FAIR! WAAAH!!"

And they have a post-it note with scribbles on it to "prove" those voting democrats were cheating. And some guy they can’t name, who said he heard the democrats were cheating, in a pub they can’t name, at a time they don’t remember.

It’s unbelievable. 1 out of 3 americans live in a fantasy land where the physical laws of reality are dictated by the conspiracy theory of the week.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Hey Tim Cushing

Trump was not as you say "laughed out of court"

Technically you may have a point. Trump wasn’t, but his lawyers were.

Oh, yea, and the last bit about you trashing his family was really low.

Well they are pieces of shit, frankly – two idiot sons, a couple of useless bubbleheads for daughters, and a mail-order whore for a wife.

What isn’t trashy about them?

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re: Hey Tim Cushing

Well, he was fucking around with her while married to #2, and it isn’t like she didn’t know he was married. That kinda does make her a bit of a pig, doesn’t it?

I’m not trying to diminish the fact that trump himself is a shitbag for fucking around on his wives. It’s his character. But it also takes a slut who’s willing to be the one that the guy fucks around with too to square the circle.

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PaulT (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:3 Hey Tim Cushing

"What about the fact that the woman he fucked was a porn star?"

That kind of makes it worse. It likely means that he views sex as a business transaction like any other, and the feelings of his wife and family were secondary to his getting what he wants. Which is not surprising, but doesn’t reflect well on any party.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Misunderestimating Trump

This article reminds me of the idiotic takes on Trump that prevailed in the various Progressive bubbles before the 2016 election. The making fun of a person and strategy that has every chance of winning, not just despite the supposedly laughable flaws in the person and strategy but because of them; the bizarre faith in traditional processes, norms, and legal institutions to maintain a sensible status quo; the can’t-see-the-wood-for-the-trees approach to what’s happening in the wider context and outside the bubble; the total inability to see and understand the world the way your opponents do (and to extrapolate from that what’s about to happen); etc. It’s just too depressing to enumerate all this….

Face it — the best that can happen now is Biden wins a poisoned chalice, with maybe half the country believing the election was rigged against Trump. The worst that can happen? A soft coup, of course, probably done entirely legally.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:

Biden is the downfall of America, not Trump. Trump isn’t the best candidate, but he’s the best we have under the circumstances compared to the disaster of a cabinet Biden brings.

I didn’t vote for Trump in 2016 and I certainly didn’t vote for Biden. I wanted Third party anti-war candidate and doctor Jill Stein in 2016. I was hoping Tulsi Gabbard or Bernie would be the candidates to vote for, but when it was Biden. knowing how the DNC screwed both Biden and Tulsi and vowing to never have either candidates be nominees. There was only Trump left, and knowing how corrupt Biden is, compared to Trump. I vote for Trump, hands down.

The media and his opponents say the meanest untrue and biased stuff about Trump because their financial backers from the military-industrial complex, copyright monopoly maffia and hillary supporters are in it to do as much defamation damage as they can to win.

Well, I’m sad to see some people are fine with the downfall of American society as we know it thanks to a fucking warmongering, warprofiteer, copyright monopoly mafia facist that’s going to leave the border wall unfinished so the violent drug/human trafficking cartels can get through and make America less safe.

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jimb (profile) says:

another Trump scam

The real reason for all of Trump’s election invalidation efforts is revealed in his fundraising emails to his Cult of Trump supporters. Read the details, and Trump is soliciting donations from his gullible fool supporters for a Trump Campaign 2024 slush fund, and to pay off his 2020 campaign debts, and to fill his own pockets (as he leases the 2024 campaign office space, hires his family as ‘advisors’ to the campaign, and sells them $3 glasses of water, etc. Trump is just trying to extract one last bit of cash from the gullible fools who believe that son-of-a-millionaire, self-described "billionaire" Trump is not one of "the elites" taking advantage of them all. Fools and their money are… constantly targeted by Trump and the "conservative" grifters surrounding him.

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That One Guy (profile) says:

'I swear I had the evidence, maybe I left it at home?'

There is something just so very entertaining watching members of Trump’s cult go from confidently yelling about how ‘There is definitely fraud!’ to mumbling that they have a sticky note or an anonymous claim and would the judge pretty-please accept those as valid evidence?

Funny how being in a position where lies have very real potential consequences can cause a massive shift in confidence and claims, almost as though lies are conspiracy theories is all they have and they’ll left with nothing when those are taken away.

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Anonymous Coward says:

TODAY: Michigan Court News

Michigan Judge Denies Injunction, Finding Trump Supporters’ Conspiracy Theories Lacking in Detroit”, by Adam Klasfeld, Law and Crime, Nov 13th, 2020 (marked 1:18pm)

The chief judge of Michigan’s Third Judicial Circuit rejected an injunction sought by President Donald Trump’s supporters on Friday . . . .

“Plaintiffs are unable to meet their burden for the relief sought,” Judge Timothy Kenny wrote in a 13-page ruling.

The text of today’s Michigan decision is embedded in the Law and Crime story.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: TODAY: Michigan Court News

Just in the last 10 days alone that makes Trump a 15 time loser (14 lawsuits and the presidency).

Those keeping track of the numbers could add in this evening’s news from Pennsylvania to that total.

Judges rule against Trump campaign in 6 Pennsylvania cases over absentee ballots”, by Katelyn Polantz, CNN, Nov 13, 2020 (updated 7:49 PM ET)

Two judges in Pennsylvania on Friday tossed a half dozen court cases the Trump campaign had brought…

Anyone know an updated total number?

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Monday Afternoon Coda [was TODAY: Michigan Court News]

Postscript: Appeal DENIED in Michigan state case according to @KlasfeldReports.

Earlier today, Andy Olesko at Courthouse News had a story, “GOP Voters Take Fight Over Detroit Election Results to Appeals Court” (Nov 16, 2020) which furnished a copy of the appeal that has now been denied by the Michigan Court of Appeals.

That same story also provides links for other documents from the case originally filed in Wayne County Circuit Court.

Anonymous Coward says:

TODAY: Arizona case moot

Trump campaign drops Arizona lawsuit requesting review of ballots”, by Kara Scannell, CNN, Nov 13, 2020 (updated 1:36 PM ET)

Lawyers for the Trump campaign have dropped a lawsuit seeking a review of all ballots cast on Election Day . . . .

From the court filing linked in the CNN story:

Since the close of yesterday’s hearing, the tabulation of votes statewide has rendered unnecessary a judicial ruling as to the presidential electors.

That is to say, the vote margin is just too bigly.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: 'Even if we win we'll still lose, so never mind.'

… at least one person involved…

Perhaps you recall from news earlier in the week that the biglaw firm of Snell & Wilmer already dropped their representation. From Reuters Legal last Wednesday:

Associate Presiding Civil Judge Daniel Kiley on Tuesday granted Snell & Wilmer’s request to withdraw as counsel of record for the Republican National Committee. The RNC had teamed-up with the Trump campaign…