The Rogers Doctrine: More Transparency Creates More Privacy Violations, Since You'll Find Out About Them
from the we-deserve-better dept
We recently wrote about the absolutely bizarre claims of Rep. Mike Rogers, the man supposedly in charge of “oversight” of the Intelligence Community, claiming that there can be no privacy violations “if you don’t know your privacy is violated.” This has resulted in plenty of mocking, including with satire so good many people believed it. It’s also been picked up, somewhat, by the bastions of pop culture, Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert. Stewart covered it on Wednesday’s episode of The Daily Show, though it feels like he sort of underplayed the absolute ridiculousness of Rogers’ statement. Colbert’s version, however, was quite well done, and gets better as you go along (and, yes, I know, that video can’t be seen in many regions, but if you can’t watch the video, you can see the animated gif version instead:
Let’s say, instead of falling in the forest, the tree is standing outside your house and I’m hiding in it watching you shower. So far, I’m not violating your privacy. But the second you see me through the window, suddenly I’m the criminal? What about my privacy? I’m trying to masturbate here. Come to think of it, there are all sorts of victimless crimes like this. We know people getting assaulted because they call the police. But I’ve never heard of anyone calling the cops because they were murdered. Therefore, clearly, no one was killed. By the same logic, folks, I have not insulted Mike Rogers as long as he never hears me say: The reason Mike Rogers uses circular logic is because his head is jammed up his own ass.
Of course, obviously, I do not mean a word of that. I admire what historians will now call “The Rogers’ Doctrine”: when it comes to privacy vs. security, we can have one of them, as long as we don’t know which one it is. That way, we can maintain our constitutional rights. Or, if they do take away our rights, just don’t let us find out. That way, we’ll still have them.
Meanwhile, over at Slate, Will Oremus has also written about Rogers’ comment, and also come up with a name for it. He calls it “Rogers’ Paradox,” noting that it’s a variation on the historical concept of “what you don’t know can’t hurt you,” and how this is “an age-old excuse for people in power to trample on the rights of those without it.”
But, Oremus makes an even more pertinent point. If Rogers’ statement is accurate (and it’s not), then it would actually mean that greater transparency itself would harm people’s privacy because they’d find out about it. Think about that for a second. Under the logic of Mike Rogers’ twisted mind, the more transparency there is about privacy violations, the more those non-privacy violations become privacy violations — and thus he must fight against such transparency at all costs to protect our privacy.
And this is a guy in power.
Filed Under: mike rogers, nsa, nsa surveillance, privacy, transparency
Comments on “The Rogers Doctrine: More Transparency Creates More Privacy Violations, Since You'll Find Out About Them”
Let’s say, instead of falling in the forest, the tree is standing outside your house and I’m hiding in it watching you shower. So far, I’m not violating your privacy. But the second you see me through the window, suddenly I’m the criminal? What about my privacy? I’m trying to masturbate here.
and
The reason Mike Rogers uses circular logic is because his head is jammed up his own ass.
Clearly he used Rogers as the example. Although I must admit it’s a pretty weird way of masturbating.
Re: Re:
Colbert has a weird way of doing everything.
It’s why he’s hilariously awesome.
Re: Re:
it’s a pretty weird way of masturbating
Seems pretty normal to me.
Re: Re: Re:
Well, if you refer to doing it on a tree I agree.. But by sticking your head in your arse?
Re: Re: Re: Re:
I am having trouble picturing how that position of “power” would look like with him putting his head up his ass struggling to go deeper.
Should we call that the Ostrich Power Position?
Doesn’t that kind of pose diminishes the “stature” of the office while supposedly increasing its power?
Is this going to replace the five second rule?
Rogers is in a position of power.
He belongs in a prison cell. Along with Feinstein, Alexander and Clapper.
Bottom line.
It is a grave injustice to the American people that these four are given charge over anything more than outhouse cleaning.
Re: Re:
I would also add to these names, the likes of Pelosi, Hayden, Obama, and Eric Holder to name but a few, and all those of both parties who support the NSA and GCHQ in the UK.
Re: Re: Re:
There’s no way this can be complete without Dick Cheney and a supporting cast of hundreds.
Re: Re: Re:
There’s no way this can be complete without Dick Cheney and a supporting cast of hundreds.
Re: Re: Re: Re:
So sorry about the repeats. I thought the browser wasn’t responding and clicked several times. I really, really should have known better.
Re: Re:
It worries me, because if they are the best that America can offer, I am really concerned that we are screwed.
Re: Re: Re:
Put it this way: were the people that won yearbook superlatives and homecoming queen the best your high school had to offer? Elected politicians work the same way.
Wow. So if someone embezzles money from the government, it’s not illegal until someone discovers the money is missing?
If you steal all the money in a bank vault without getting caught, you haven’t committed a crime?
Or is it just those who have sworn oaths to obey they law who get such privileges?
John Stewart did a good clip on this as well… Dubbed, A Bugged Life
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-october-30-2013/a-bugged-life—plausible-deniability-scramble
OH, Mike! Just wait 'til you find out about Google's spying!
You can’t prevent it, either, and NO, you can’t avoid it; not voluntarily, tracks you all over the net. — AND as ever, NSA gets all that Google has. — And by the way, forgot this last time: Google TOO trots out the notion that because it’s all automated means no one is actually spying on you.
ALL SPYING IS CREEPY. And must ALL be limited before they’ve every last gadget in place: “the internet of things”, where even your refrigerator will be a gov’t/corporate agent.
The Google-Borg. Assimilating your privacy since 1998.
05:49:06[g-402-6]
Re: Goorlew
Re: Google!
I LOVE GOOGLE!
Re: OH, Mike! Just wait 'til you find out about Google's spying!
Download a browser that can block specific cookies or all cookies. Block Google’s IPs through your firewall. Google doesn’t have the means to cripple encryption protocols from unrelated vendors. Google doesn’t have back-bone taps doing deep-packet sniffing. Thus, this is sufficient to prevent Google spying at the maximal range of what Google might be undertaking.
Getting around the NSA is significantly harder and will require darknet usage which will have an effect on your browsing speed. Further, if things get bad enough the NSA might end up going after people just for using darknet or encryption protocols, rendering the exercise useless.
See, the NSA is worth dealing with first, then we can look at what needs to be done about Google.
I would expect no less from Misrep Rogers.
I’ve been say this all along, “It’s not illegal if you don’t get caught” but apparently only acceptable if you get into politics
I find it ironic how Rogers and Feinstein are the heads of their congressional intelligence departments but are two of the biggest morons I know.
Irony
“An intelligence agency that fears intelligence? Historically, not awesome” – Tony Stark, The Avengers.
Further –
Why are we now dependent on our comedians for the only insightful analysis of what’s going on?
“Life is but a dream” – Spock
Remind me again who said “we can’t find out how many Americans we have data on because that would violate their privacy”?
Wow, I think Rep. Rogers has cleared up all of my concerns about the collection of metadata, I don’t know why I didn’t see it sooner.
The metadata is only collected if the information is read and I have no way of knowing if it’s been read therefore the metadata hasn’t been collected. I am once again ignorant of the fact that my privacy may have been violated and so it hasn’t been violated.
If I consider that my private communications being stored without my knowledge is a violation of my privacy I am told that what I have heard and/or read isn’t true and/or accurate which means I don’t know what I know and if I insist I know what I know I simply don’t understand what I know as it hasn’t been explained clearly.
After this I am back to square one, I remain ignorant and my privacy hasn’t been violated so I don’t feel the need for anybody to be held accountable for illegal mass surveillance.
Similar historical logic
There’s a story about the introduction of helmets during WWI which has an example of such blindly followed logic. Apparently after the introduction of helmets the number of wounded with head wounds has risen drastically. Therefore the logic was:
introduction of helmets -> more wounded -> helmets “bad”
There was even a correlative and causative connection! Following such logic without question, one can than arrive at the conclusion that helmets were obviously a bad idea. Ta-da! Logic in action!
And why there were more wounded? Because soldiers who wore helmets received head wounds instead of fatal injuries and so lived instead of dying.
And this is a guy in power.
You forgot something, He’s also Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence (Chairman).
Some oversight this douche provides…
Rogers was just playing the old “It is only unlawful if I get caught” excuse.
lol how long has Colbert had this block message?
SORRY, BUT THIS VIDEO IS UNAVAILABLE FROM YOUR LOCATION
It’s one of the detriments of living under a monarchy. But in case you can’t give up your vegemite and move to America, watch clips from The Colbert Report at the comedychannel.com.au
I looked at that website, it’s a fucking tragedy when it comes to navigating to what you want. Sorry, but it gets a fail.
Re: Re:
oops forgot to mention, I live in Australia.
Schr?dinger's Privacy
Violated or not?
Depends upon whether it was viewed.
Flawless logic there
Jesus Christ!
Goddamn auto play almost gave me a heart attack.
Not to self – restore volume after blasting AC/DC