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Draconian Downloading Law In Japan Goes Into Effect… Music Sales Drop

Music Industry

from the what-a-non-surprise dept

Mon, Nov 12th 2012 07:20am -

For years, we’ve pointed out that some in the music industry get so obsessed with “stopping piracy” that they miss the fact that their main job should be to increase revenue. They make the huge mistake of assuming that the two things are the same — and that “stopping piracy” automatically leads to “increased revenue.” Yet, almost every time that issue is explored empirically (over time), it doesn’t seem to hold up. The latest example was sent in by Techdirt reader edinjapan, and it concerns the new draconian anti-piracy laws that recently went into effect there. If you believed the basic theory behind this law, this would mean that greater enforcement by police would mean less piracy… and a massive influx in revenue.

Except, the reality is that consumers are spending less on music than they were before the bill became law. The article actually posits that the government has made some people so fearful of being arrested that they won’t do any downloading from legitimate sources any more — just in case it’s tainted. So even if they can cut out piracy (doubtful) there’s little evidence to suggest much increase in commerce as a result.

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Comments on “Draconian Downloading Law In Japan Goes Into Effect… Music Sales Drop”

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151 Comments
maclypse (profile) says:

Re: Re:

Will it be too late for them? Honestly, who cares? They can all crash and burn as far as I’m concerned; we used to call that a free market.

What concerns me is, will it be too late for us? Can we undo the damage done to the society? Can we get our rights back? Can we get our privacy back? Can we get due process back?

The Real Michael says:

Re: Re: Re:

“What concerns me is, will it be too late for us? Can we undo the damage done to the society? Can we get our rights back? Can we get our privacy back? Can we get due process back?”

If you’re waiting for the politicians who are in the corporates’ back pockets to suddenly reform and work in favor of the public (y’know, like they’re supposed to, being public servants and all), don’t hold your breath.

The stupid thing here is that even if they squeezed every last drop of profit out of the consumers, they’d have nothing to take it and spend it on without the working class providing them with the labor necessary to keep the country afloat, keep their mouths fed, manufacture their products, provide necessary services, etc.

That said, I’m not all that informed about Japan’s current political situation, but birds of a feather flock together and Japan has a history of following in our footsteps where it concerns things like ratching up copyright/IP laws. There can be little question that corporate influences here in the US helped influence the end result.

Mike says:

Re: Re:

I used to pirate most of my music, but after signing up for an Xbox Music Pass (it was still called a Zune Pass when I signed up.. whatever), I stopped almost completely with pirating music.

Normally, if a new album came out, I’d have to wait until I got home, look for a legitimate torrent, make sure it’s the right format for my phone (it won’t play FLAC), hope it downloads quickly, and then fix all the shitty misspelled metadata. More often than not there wouldn’t even be a torrent available for new albums or less popular artists.

With this music pass, I can just immediately download (or stream) the album to my phone/desktop/tablet/xbox. Downloads quick, metadata is correct. No fuss, no bullshit.

Basically, piracy doesn’t offer the same level of convenience & ease of use, so I switched. Ten bucks a month is not bad at all IMO.

I have similar opinions with pirating games, and online providers like Steam. Convenience outweighs the cost, so I gladly give them my money.

fogbugzd (profile) says:

In the US most business executives are Republicans. I am hoping that the executives learned a valuable lesson in the last US election.

The Republicans deceived themselves. They were listening to each other talk while denying what was apparent to everyone else. Any news media that did not agree with their view of the election was just displaying “Liberal Bias.” When the data didn’t agree with their worldview they simply commissioned their own data to be collected. On election night Karl Rove became the poster child of this phenomenon, and that may be his single greatest contribution to the Republican Party as a whole if Fox news and others take the lesson to heart.

The RIAA and MPAA have been talking only among themselves and cooking their own data for years. All critics are denounced as pirates or pirate sympathizers. However, there might be some hope for them. The RIAA did give up the litigation strategy when it became apparent that it was not working. I wonder how long it will take before they realize that the legislation strategy is even more damaging to their companies.

yaga (profile) says:

Re: Re:

I would disagree. There’s just as many Democrats that are business execs as Republicans.

It’s your kind of statements that keep America divided because you throw out the word Republican and think that every single person that identifies themselves as a Republican agrees with Fox News or people like Karl Rove. Unfortunately the talking heads of the Republican party are pretty far out there but they don’t represent what Republicans feel. There are a lot of moderates, both in the Democrats and Republicans, that don’t like what either side is doing but we’ve let the party leaders become the true rulers of the country instead of our representatives.

Greevar (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:

Political parties are the things that politicians listen to instead of their constituents. I think we should abolish political parties altogether and hopefully kill off the pandering to special interests at the expense of the good of the people. Lobbying, campaign donations, and partisan politics need to go and replace it with representatives that actually listen to the people that voted them into office.

trollificus (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re: Re:

How about a citation for the original comment he’s replying to, which I quote from memory “Most business executives are Republicans because this fits the neat straw man narrative I’ve created wherein all the conservatives are crooked panderers-to-lobbyists and the liberals are all noble, principle-driven public servants” or something like that?

Here’s a clue: If, when you say something without hard fact behind it, you get the feeling “See? It all fits together!”, then your “logic” has as much value as that of Moon Hoaxers, Bilderberger Conspiracy Theorists and Mayan Calendar Catastrophists, all of whom elevate speculation to fact if it “all fits together”.

Thus it is with your “feeling” (not “fact”) that all the corporate bad guys are Republicans. Facing the fact that the truth is otherwise would cause shakiness in your whole easy explanation of how things work, therefore it MUST be true, right?

IF you do a little research and find the facts are clearly otherwise (most people with power, the people who RUN THIS COUNTRY, are actually “liberal”), an easy out is the explanation that this disturbing unanimity is not from self-serving self-interest, but because they are smart people whose opinions naturally align with yours, you being right and all.

I point this out not to defend the Republicans, who are useless and repulsive, but to hopefully help someone escape the poisonous delusion that one political side or the other is “good” because they pander in a particular way.

Andy says:

Re: Re: Re:

Yaga, two things:

First, most of the moderates you refer to have left the parties, and we now call ourselves Independents. Neither the Dems nor the GOP were representing us, so we stopped calling ourselves Democrats or Republicans. It may be true that there are some moderates who, through sheer inertia and laziness, still are registered in one party or the other, I suppose, but they wouldn’t say “I’m a Republican” if you asked them and we shouldn’t be counting them here.

Second, the leaders and talking heads of the GOP *DO* represent what Republican voters feel and believe. This is the whole principle of a political party — to come together to choose candidates or make statements that represent the views of the party members. It’s called a representative democracy precisely because the candidates and officials represent the views of their constituents! If someone doesn’t agree with Fox News or Karl Rove, they are free to not call themselves Republican. Nobody is forcing anybody to call themselves a Republican, so if they choose to say “I’m Republican” instead of “I’m independent,” then they are explicitly indicating their agreement with the Republican party platform, and they should be judged and treated accordingly.

The same goes for anyone who says “I’m a Democrat.” Groupthink isn’t limited to any one party or group.

gorehound (profile) says:

Re: Re:

I disagree with you.MAFIAA Scum come in all sizes and shapes.I am a person who very much dislikes the whole Republican Party and here I am saying something in Defense of them.
Reps,Dems,Independents, ETC are Americans and many different Americans own MAFIAA Businesses.

As far as this News on Japan goes.I personally would be very happy to see a real Japanese Boycott of all MAFIAA.The less they buy the happier MAFIAA Haters and myself will feel.Love to see them have weeks with No Sales at all.

And as far as MAFIAA goes a Big Fuck You from me !You are forever Censored from my Wallet.You won’t ever be seeing a dime out of me.
Buy and Support Local and Indie Art

Yep says:

Re: Re: Re:

Totally agree. It would be amazing if everyone told the big recording and movie industries to get f*cked by not buying their products. Spend your cash on a night out listening to some local talent! Once the best local talents go global (easy to do now there is this thing called the internet!) buy directly from them and not off a middle man.

ldne says:

Re: Re:

Actually,
BOTH sides are delusional, not just one, right now there are articles all over the place about the “landslide victory” and yet Look at the election results, ~2% of the popular vote isn’t a mandate, especially considering the lame duck candidate the Republicans fronted and all of the gaffes during the campaign. All of the politicians are pretty much as out of touch as the RIAA and MPAA are. The President had people on the ground in the swing states for the last year and a half and he still couldn’t top ~2% against the hated uber-rich?

Ima Fish (profile) says:

If you look through the history of recorded music, sales have always increased when new technology allows more people to listen.

When radio first was released, the masses were able to hear and buy music for the first time.

When white kids started listening to black music on powerful AM stations in the 50, the birth of rock and roll led to decades of sales.

When college kids started listening to experimental rock on FM radio in the late 60s and 70s, sales increased until the end of the 70s. (And of course the higher quality of FM led to a broad range of music being exposed.)

MTV started playing new music in the 80s and sales increased until they stopped playing videos in the mid 90s. MTV exposed kids to metal, new wave, and rap. And made Micheal Jackson a mega star.

CD actually increased with Napster giving exposure to new music, but it was fleeting.

Since then any new technology which is released to give exposure to new artists is immediately killed. And yet they wonder why sales aren’t what they used to be.

anon says:

Re: Re:

The rpoblem is that these changes were made despite the industry not in conjunction with them, other than cd i belive which they thought was impossible to crack, they never learn.

If anythign the industry should be clmabering for more and more fan sites giving them free music for there sites to sell or just give away free. They should be promoting sharing of music supplied by themnot others in high quality and with extras if they are going to charge for it.

What this points to is that the music industry is so full of themselves and they only want to hold onto the power they have over others and the power to write themselves blank cheques, remember it is them not the artists that make the larger part of the profit by a factor of 20-30 to one in favour of the label. so where you see someone has made a million dollars the label will have probably grossed over 20 -30 million if not more.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:

I don’t know about Ima Fish, but having read his/her comment post, I’d have to say I agree, and my source is “having lived through it.” I lived through all those periods of time he/she refers to and can confirm that’s what happened.

The only technological jump I’d have to add was that when records were invented and you could buy and listen to actual music (rather than just buying the sheet music after you heard a song on the vaudeville stage and taking it home and having someone play the song on the piano), people who wrote music suddenly got a lot richer… but that, I was not around for. 😉

edinjapan (profile) says:

Re: Re: Poor sales

Well being Japan the first thing you would do would be to bow very deeply and mutter repeatedly “Sumimasen” and “Moshokegosaimasen” and repeat this until your voice is hoarse and your forehead is a massive bruise.

If this doesn’t work and your shareholders are still mailing you bullets, you will take the next step which is to jump off a high building or step in front of the Chuo Line Express.

Your successor will then quietly pay off the police to start making mass arrests. After 21 days of no sleep, little food and water and being subjected to other nastiness there will be lots of confessions and your company will make up the shortfall.

Right now, in Japan, this is the closest thing to a mass boycott you will ever see.

The Real Michael says:

It seems that the more a nation is stagnating economically, the corporations then blame the public and demand greater government protection in order to insulate them from the negative effects. If they really want to insulate themselves from economic fallout, they should protect the working sector as they’re the engine that keeps the economy afloat. Enforcing copyright laws only serves to benefit the few at the expense of the many. There’s no way that this new law is going to result in positive gains for Japanese copyright/IP holders.

Anonymous Coward says:

It seems like the music industry seems to think that there’s no other entertainment competing for their dollars. It’s like they assumed that people just put all their music money in savings and all they have to do is close the free vault and all that money comes flooding out. That money is already spent. You’re not going to convert customers by adding no value when their money already goes to competing products.

out_of_the_blue says:

You'd have nothing to whine about IF YOU READ ALL:

To begin with, it’s a survey with no easy way to determine how reliable. But just follow link at bottom of the “spending less” link:

BOLD in original:
“It?s interesting to see that, although one or two people suggest that the tough new law has put them off buying new music, the vast majority of responses suggest that? just maybe? the reason music sales have fallen so much recently is due to a general lack of interest and that new albums are simply not particularly good value for money.”

See that last sentence there? LIKELY NOTHING TO DO WITH THE LAW!

So as usual Mike RUNS WILD the way his notions take him, while the source doesn’t say that.

The Real Michael says:

Re: Re: You'd have nothing to whine about IF YOU READ ALL:

If music labels were so confident in the quality of their products and their ability to saturate the market, they wouldn’t need to lean on big daddy government to protect their business model.

Guess they lack confidence in themselves.

That said, if Japan’s economy tanks again like it did in the 80’s, we’ll likely see another bubble.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: You'd have nothing to whine about IF YOU READ ALL:

The guy is so dumb that he quote the proof that the law is what made people ignore music 🙂

Quote:

the vast majority of responses suggest that? just maybe? the reason music sales have fallen so much recently is due to a general lack of interest and that new albums are simply not particularly good value for money.

Maybe just maybe people are not interested because they didn’t create a bond with the media. They have no good experiences to associate that thing to and so it becomes irrelevant, the more you control the distribution the less it is freely available the less it is to be seen or heard the less relevant it becomes to people, the less experiences people have the less they will waste money on that crap.

Only a pirate would pay for something because they are the only ones linking their lives with such content and creating “memories” the other people are not going to pay for something they have no “memories” to recall.

Lord Binky says:

Re: You'd have nothing to whine about IF YOU READ ALL:

If music sales are falling because of uninteresting music and poor value for money then it seems like chasing after piracy and spending all the time and effort into lowering it was rather pointless.

Ignoring the things they can control while focusing on the things they cannot control, sounds like it would turn out badly for a business. Oh, look at that….

Dreddsnik says:

Re: You'd have nothing to whine about IF YOU READ ALL:

“It?s interesting to see that, although one or two people suggest that the tough new law has put them off buying new music, the vast majority of responses suggest that? just maybe? the reason music sales have fallen so much recently is due to a general lack of interest and that new albums are simply not particularly good value for money.”

From that statement it would also appear that sales loss is LIKELY NOTHING TO DO WITH ‘PIRACY’ EITHER. This is completely consistent to what this site ( and others like it ) have been saying since Napster.

Gwiz (profile) says:

Re: You'd have nothing to whine about IF YOU READ ALL:

See that last sentence there? LIKELY NOTHING TO DO WITH THE LAW!

Interesting one-sided take on things, Blue.

Did you even stop to think that the “general lack of interest” and the feeling that albums aren’t worth the money may be because the law has made it taboo to sample new music?

I know that if I can’t sample first, I most likely won’t purchase. Remember, buying a CD isn’t like buying anything else – no returns allowed on CD purchases for any reason.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: You'd have nothing to whine about IF YOU READ ALL:

That’s irrelevant to a discussion of whether THIS STORY is bogus. “Draconian Downloading Law In Japan Goes Into Effect… Music Sales Drop.” The quoted section from the story indicates that “the vast majority” of people surveyed are no longer downloading music for reasons unrelated to the anti-piracy laws. Therefore, Mike’s use of that survey as evidence that “Draconian Downloading Law In Japan Goes Into Effect… Music Sales Drop” is bogus, and really, really misleading. As Mike always says, correlation does not equate to causation. The hypocrisy is rank.

btrussell (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re: You'd have nothing to whine about IF YOU READ ALL:

“…general lack of interest and that new albums are simply not particularly good value for money.”

All that music out there that I can’t hear? I have no idea what it is like(lack of interest) nor will I if I have to buy an album in order to decide(not particularly good value for money). My interest may pick up if I have no fear of any laws regarding downloading in order to discover this unheard music.

RD says:

Re: Re: Re: You'd have nothing to whine about IF YOU READ ALL:

“As Mike always says, correlation does not equate to causation. The hypocrisy is rank.”

Ah, good, then we are agreed that a correlation (millions of people file sharing) does not equate to causation (sales of recorded music are declining.)

Glad we have that worked out. Now, why is the *IAA suing individual downloaders again?

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:2 You'd have nothing to whine about IF YOU READ ALL:

It’s amazing that you’re still trying to spin this. Let’s try to focus on the topic of this discussion (i.e., Mike’s article).

Ah, good, then we are agreed that a correlation (millions of people file sharing) does not equate to causation (sales of recorded music are declining.)

I didn’t write an article making any such claims. Therefore, there’s no need to address that issue. Mike did write this article, which we’re now commenting on. So, can you admit that he was wrong to imply causation here, and that it is hypocritical for him to do so?

Now, why is the *IAA suing individual downloaders again?

Must. focus. on. topic. at. hand.

edinjapan (profile) says:

Re: Re: You'd have nothing to whine about IF YOU READ ALL:

That’s one of the reasons for the low sales. The price of a CD has jumped up into the ?5,000 bracket and the prices at the iTunes Apple store are 3-5x what they are in the US. A lot of people here will watch/download the DVD or listen to the CD on youtube before making a purchase.

And you’re spot on as regards the quality of the music. I doubt any American or European performer would work for the wages a Japanese musician makes. And that’s reflected in the quality of the music they put out.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: You'd have nothing to whine about IF YOU READ ALL:

“See that last sentence there? LIKELY NOTHING TO DO WITH THE LAW!”

So, boy, you’re acknowledging that the current output by the industry is crap, and that the older, out-of-print material (not currently available on cd or “legal” download) is what people want!
So, why doesn’t the industry reissue the older material in affordable formats and rake in the dough?

Machin Shin (profile) says:

Re: You'd have nothing to whine about IF YOU READ ALL:

I would like to take this moment to point something else out. While they are saying

“the reason music sales have fallen so much recently is due to a general lack of interest and that new albums are simply not particularly good value for money.”

When the guys come out puffing out their chest saying “look how much piracy is down in Japan” We can respond with….

“the reason music piracy have fallen so much recently is due to a general lack of interest and that new albums are simply not particularly good downloads.”

Niall (profile) says:

Re: You'd have nothing to whine about IF YOU READ ALL:

You know, most commenters on here might just note that fact without the childish ad-homs and 1st-grade amateur dramatics.

On the rare times you make a good point like this, you immediately shoot them down in flames faster than an **AA exec at a tech show with your vacuous, vicious stupidity.

Are you really trying as hard to be seen as irrelevant as the organisations you appear to be shilling for?

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: You'd have nothing to whine about IF YOU READ ALL:

I never buy ANY copyrighted content unless I have a way to sample it first. It’s too much of a gamble otherwise.

For me the way to sample usually is piracy and I doubt I’m the only one to do so.

Therefor, anyone who has that habit will only buy if pirating is possible

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: You'd have nothing to whine about IF YOU READ ALL:

The source is expressing an OPINION. I see no proof of anything other than that. This is an OPINION which Mr. Masnick has also expressed to start a conversation. It is apparent you feel the rest of us are not intelligent enough to figure that out. Judging by the conversation, you are wrong. Why do you do this so often? you never have anything to add. You are a waste of bytes.

That Anonymous Coward (profile) says:

Re: Independant artists

Why? This actually is a huge benefit to the indies.
The indies can totally make their work available for download, they control the rights. If people can download and try before they buy each sale you get is from someone who enjoys your work.

Look at ‘The Promo Bay’ project. A simple 1 off project from the minds of TPB giving advertising to people who make content available on TPB. There is a huge influx of artists signing up to get the attention of the audience. The project is now spinning off with another person running it full time because its to damn large.

I expect to see a spike in indie artists sales in Japan, as they embrace the system the labels are terrified of.

Time and time again we keep seeing ways that those “evil pirate filesharing bastards” actually pay for the content they like. An indie movie maker politely points out he hopes you like his flick and if you do he is still paying off his maxed out credit cards and could use a few bucks. He gets income from those evil “pirates” who just want it all for free.
And that story repeats for authors, musicians, programmers, etc. over and over.

The big labels are so deluded that the old way is the only way to make money they are basically walking away from the market now. Seems like a great time to be indie and connect with the fans…

That Anonymous Coward (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re: Independant artists

But when you have the artist giving you permission to do so, and you can make sure its legit your more likely to try it.

Smart artists will be putting links on their pages clearly marked that these are free downloads of their music.

It might take a little effort but it could be a gold mine.

ajck says:

Re: Re: Re:3 Independant artists

ugh, you’d have to pay me to listen to that shit though. That shit is so played out it makes american top40 sound fresh. Not to mention that the video on the main page (search in the dark) has the worst female voice I’ve ever heard singing octaves the whole time. Real. Fucking. Original.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:4 Independant artists

Well, gee. Thank you so much for that completely unasked for and unwanted opinion. I did not post the link to promote the band, just as an example. I’m not here to debate musical tastes. It’s as futile as discussing politics because everyone will always be convinced that they alone are right. I would bet my life that if I looked through yours, or anyone else’s music collection around here I would find something that would make me cringe, and I’m sure the reverse would be true as well.

With that said, they’re not one of my favorite bands either, but I respect what they’re doing. As for the female singer in that video, she’s not a member of the band. She was just a guest for that one song, which makes half your comment worthless, and makes a poor basis for an opinion if that’s all you checked out. Their first 2 cds are sold out (so somebody likes them) and out of print and for them to now give them away as free downloads is admirable to say the least. Most bands would charge either directly or though iTunes.

nasch (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:2 Independant artists

Smart artists will be putting links on their pages clearly marked that these are free downloads of their music..

But the pirate sites are free downloads too. To someone who isn’t sure and just doesn’t want to take a risk, it could be safer to just not download any music. I have no idea about numbers of course, but I’m sure that is happening to some degree. Hard to say which effect is stronger.

Anonymous Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Independant artists

It would not surprise me if in the results listed that the indies were doing quite well. The reported numbers are likely ‘music industry’ numbers, which would not include indies.

Except, the reality is that consumers are spending less on music than they were before the bill became law.

Now, a good question might be is what is the size of the indie music scene in Japan, and how is IT doing?

edinjapan (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re: Independant artists

the indie music scene is floundering, it’s hard to practice, record or find a venue to play in if you are an indie musician. The big companies like Jonnies, Broccoli and Sony are killing off the live house scene and independent studios.

The Governor of Tokyo Blinkyhara (Ishihara) has a long term vendetta going on with any business which plays live music or promotes dancing to mixed or sampled music. Hopefully this will change now that he’s resigned in favour of national politics and the possibility of an actual conflict with China.

Prashanth (profile) says:

More than just discouraging sharing

Usually it seems like whenever draconian anti-piracy laws go into effect, music sales drop mostly because people can no longer listen to a bit of the music before they buy, so a lot of the customers who would pay for the music are turned away. I find it interesting that there is the added effect that these laws have cast doubt on the validity of any download; that alone should show just how much more backwards this law is.

Anonymous Coward says:

the only way any organisation finds out it’s mistakes is to hit it in the pocket. people should realise that restricting the availability of downloading will never mean an increase in shop or internet sales. it just pisses people off! as stated, some are now so fearful that they are being set up, they wont download anything from anywhere, but they still aren’t buying from anywhere either. more should take the ‘not buy’ route as a protest.

Mesonoxian Eve (profile) says:

Sony was a huge player in getting this bill passed, and it was so rushed, the very government passing it into law could not address simple questions asked by the public.

The biggest concern was streaming, which created a cache now illegal under this new law (though some say provisions would be “excluded” despite the letter of the law).

Of course, the public was not satisfied by this answer, especially since it’s a felony conviction, not a civil one. Every day, people are being arrested in Japan for doing things that shouldn’t be illegal, such as modifying a One Piece figure (to make it more sexy) and reselling it. Not a counterfeit, but actual modifications to the purchased good.

I feel sorry for people in Japan. Their entertainment is so expensive, I’m wondering just how in the hell anyone can afford it. Sales aren’t just down because of the law, but prices are going up there.

It’ll just be a matter of time before we’re under the same umbrella.

Tom Green (user link) says:

Calm down, folks.

1. Most indie artists, like me, allow full length free streaming on sites like Bandcamp, Facebook, our own sites. There’s no need to d/l stuff from dodgy Russian mafia hoodlum (and line his pockets rather than mine) just to hear music. Of course you can hear it, legally, for free, you’re just not looking.

2. Expecting the majors to make ‘good’ music is like asking McDonald’s to serve you a really good steak. They need really high numbers to make a buck= lowest common denominator rubbish.

3. Expecting the ‘music industry’, which included indie artists like me, to offer you a model equivalent to pirates is impossible. They’re not the ones paying out thousands to find the time to write, record, and promote the music. They’re the parasites who can just nick our files then invest the sub fees and ad revenue in porn sites, malware, and trafficking sex slaves. We don’t really have that option. We have to PAY to make the music. OK ?

4. More and more of us are finding it really tough to even break even. Whatever your studies may say, there’s little sign of any downloading related increase in paid sales at this end, I can tell you. My ‘art’ music output is way down these days. I have mouths to feed and bills to pay, so it’s TV commissions and library music that gets made. That pays- not a lot- but it pays. Art music just doesn’t. So it’s not getting made. Even though 10k people a week stream for free off my site every week. These are my facts. Others may do better, but it ain’t working out round here.

That is all.

Gwiz (profile) says:

Re: Re:

My ‘art’ music output is way down these days. I have mouths to feed and bills to pay, so it’s TV commissions and library music that gets made.

No offense towards you or your plight, but I just want to point out that having to work a 9 to 5 job to pay the bills instead of doing what you love 100% of the time is pretty much the norm for everyone else in this world.

I would certainly love to quit my job so I could spend all of my time programming the game I am attempting to create, but the mortgage and utilities need to be paid and I am kind of partial to eating at this point.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:

Don’t bag on someone for pointing out facts just because you weren’t able to make a living out of your passion. You can take the leap of faith any time to try and become an indie game developer. He wasn’t even complaining either…just pointing out that he can only make tv and library music. (which btw, is NOT a cushy 9 to 5 job. but I’ll leave it up to you to do your hw on that since you freetards probably wouldn’t believe me if I told you.)

Gwiz (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re: Re:

Don’t bag on someone for pointing out facts just because you weren’t able to make a living out of your passion.

I wasn’t (not sure what you mean by “bag on someone”) disrespecting Mr. Green at all. I was just pointing out that if you are actually making living from your passion, then you should really count yourself among the lucky ones.

This world if chocked full of people who can’t realize their dreams because the necessities of life and providing for your family come first. Heck, how many college graduates out there are working in fields other that their chosen majors?

That Anonymous Coward (profile) says:

Re: Re:

Out of curiosity…
What does any of this have to do with downloading being made a felony in Japan, and the sales dropping as people are scared that even legal sites might actually be illegal?

While your making this nice plea about life is hard and you can’t compete, your totally missing the point of the story your commenting on so one has to wonder if maybe your decision making process is flawed and this might explain why you find your profession so hard.

While I’ve never heard of you, your complete ignoring of the subject at hand means that the trendy link back to your site isn’t going to be clicked by me or more people.

But good luck on your SEO placement, hopefully other people won’t look at your post and wonder what you were blathering about trying to keep the image of the evil pirates alive and well.

Dreddsnik says:

Re: Re: Re:

” But good luck on your SEO placement, hopefully other people won’t look at your post and wonder what you were blathering about trying to keep the image of the evil pirates alive and well. ”

That was unnecessarily harsh. I understood his post without a whole lot of strain. When I see posts like his ( a working artists ) I like to take the time to find some of their work, and give it a listen. In most cases, it turns out to be pretty obvious why they can’t make a buck .. it’s crap. That’s not the case for Mr. Green. It’s VERY good. Just a limited market. It’s possible to make a constructive observation without including a ‘bitchslap’ 😉

That Anonymous Coward (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re: Re:

Hi you must be new here as well, harsh is what I do.

If your going to post self serving tripe that has nothing to do with the actual topic expect harsh responses.

If your going to use terms –
“dodgy Russian mafia hoodlum”
“offer you a model equivalent to pirates is impossible”
“They’re the parasites who can just nick our files then invest the sub fees and ad revenue in porn sites, malware, and trafficking sex slaves”
“We have to PAY to make the music”

Expect harsh.

Didn’t bother to register, showing no interest in the site beyond getting his message out… a message that still doesn’t relate to the topic.
Made sure to link his website and talk about how hard he has to work.
Ignored the basic facts of the website easily presented on the right hand side of the screen that explains core concepts of the site.

So its wonderful you love his work, what is it like to be led around by the nose that way?
So did you have anything to add about the law in Japan and how overreaching it is, or are you just here to stroke the ego of someone using a popular website to SEO themselves.

Dreddsnik says:

Re: Re:

Just my opinion Tom, forwhat it’s worth …

Listening to ‘Another Fine Day’ …

It’s stirring, relaxing, quite beautiful I’d say. But the ‘Market’ for that is likely to be ‘niche’ . I can appreciate it, and I KNOW others here would as well, but I CAN see why it wouldn’t necessarily be a big seller in mainstream markets.

It’s obvious you do what you love, and do it well, but as some others posted, that won’t necessarily pay the bills and it’s NOT just because of freeloading. You’re work is excellent, just not ‘generally’ marketable. Don’t stop. please, but understand what you do is not going to be widely appreciated in a world focused on physical beauty and hooked up hits designed for those with the attention span of fleas. Very respectfully, my two cents.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re:

http://anotherfinedday.wordpress.com/2012/11/03/what-music-fans-could-learn-from-terry-callier/

The blame is not ENTIRELY in their hands though…a part is also in the hands of we the fans. It is both a wonderful AND terrible thing that fans are now the artist’s employer. Wonderful because nobody has to deal with label bullshit anymore, but terrible because you can’t expect most of your customers to pay you on a name your price album when that price can include 0. If we want to keep getting actual GOOD music, then we the fans need to STEP UP and give our favorite artists a good enough living to where they have an incentive to keep creating instead of composing for movies/games/tv or becoming teachers.

The Real Michael says:

Re: Re: Re:

Wow, crazy. If your product is underperforming in the marketplace, the solution isn’t to make your products more expensive.

Samsung was able to compete successfully with Apple by offering a compelling product at a competitive price-point. If Apple were to raise the retail price on their own line of phones, it would be equivalent to handing over market share to Samsung …and they know it. Any smart business would know not to do that, except for — you guessed it — the labels.

Frost (profile) says:

Exposure, not enforcement.

The only major problem new artists or artists in general have is getting exposure to enough people to achieve some sort of critical mass. Remove piracy and you remove a huge free advertising channel that, yes, may cut in slightly to the revenue stream (though nobody has proven it does, yet) but it also exposes a lot of people to the material. If you can grab something and explore it without putting money down, chances are a lot better you will. But big music still wants to get the good old days back, when they were the only gatekeeper and made money hand over fist for nothing, really. They still write their contracts that way… even a successful band will wind up in debt for quite a while, while the record company rakes in millions.

Worried about music pirates? That’s them, right there, big music.

Anonymous Coward says:

” Hi you must be new here as well, harsh is what I do. “

Nope. Not new here at all.

“So its wonderful you love his work, what is it like to be led around by the nose that way? “

I don’t really know. No one has actually been able to do that to me. I was curious, listened, expressed my opinion on not only his music, but why it probably isn’t selling the way he’d like it to. I’m not quite sure how that is being ‘led around by the nose’, but, that is YOUR opinion, and not less or more valid than mine, regardless of how long I’ve been here compared to you.

“So did you have anything to add about the law in Japan and how overreaching it is, or are you just here to stroke the ego of someone using a popular website to SEO themselves. “

I don’t disagree with the premise of the article at all. Tom seemed to feel the premise of the article wasn’t quite correct, based on his personal experiences, I chose to suggest alternate theories as to why he’s not doing as well as he liked ( this is the ‘comments’ section, after all ) and I chose to not frame it as an asshole :). You choose an … alternate .. approach, which I expressed MY opinion about, nice and civil. That’s all. You don’t care for my approach, and have made it known. I don’t care for your approach, and I have made it known. Since neither of us is likely to change the way we respond to those that disagree with opinions, I suggest we both ‘get over it’ and move on. That shouldn’t be too difficult, should it ?

Dreddsnik says:

” So did you have anything to add about the law in Japan and how overreaching it is, or are you just here to stroke the ego of someone using a popular website to SEO themselves. “

Why don’t you play with idne for a while. It’s clear that he’s not here for the content of the article and that’s obviously a large concern of yours ; ‘THAT anonymouse coward’ 😛

Dreddsnik says:

” Therefore, Mike’s use of that survey as evidence that “Draconian Downloading Law In Japan Goes Into Effect… Music Sales Drop is bogus”

Interesting position to take. I read the article and that’s not what I took from it at all. The article seems to be suggesting that since consumer spending on music was down even before the law was passed, that it was unnecessary, the wrong tool for the job, as it were. Different people, different interpretations .. go figure.

Dreddsnik says:

“I used to pirate most of my music, but after signing up for an Xbox Music Pass (it was still called a Zune Pass when I signed up.. whatever), I stopped almost completely with pirating music. “

Better watch yourself. you are . ” using a popular website to SEO themselves. ” , or a service, it seems. Your going to make ‘someone’ upset 😉

That Anonymous Coward (profile) says:

Re: Re:

Except his comment was related to the topic and not self serving tripe. It was commentary on how offering a better service at the correct price is more effective than passing more laws to protect an outdated business model.

I seem to have touched a nerve as you have lost the ability to even reply to people in the correct spots. Maybe if you could remember your login id.

Austin (profile) says:

You want Sources? Here ya go

Well…in an effort to (try and probably fail to) settle this once and for all, here ya go: http://www.cudahynow.com/blogs/communityblogs/118337144.html

First thing’s first, the entries on the official Forbes 400 list have switched around a little. Basically Christ Walton has fallen from #4 to #6, but this doesn’t change the list.

Now, I have verified that entries 4-10 are correct. I mean, nobody is going to dispute that the Koch Brothers (5 & 6) are Republicans (or at least Tea Party-iers, which all run as Republicans) and considering as how Michael Bloomberg is a sitting Republican mayor at this very moment, we can’t debate that either. The Walton family (of Wal-Mart fame) occupies all the remaining seats, and have both overwhelmingly supported republicans in elections, and also in several situations given political speeches on their behalf.

I haven’t checked 11-20 and don’t intend to, however I do want to note that, although Bill Gates funnels most of his money into charities that would seem to support the Democrats, most of his donations directly to either candidates or PACs are to Republicans by a margin of almost 2-to-1, so we can assume that he is one of those “Reagan Democrats” that agrees with the Democrats socially but the Republicans on economics, so he’s really split.

In addition, Larry Ellison is also debatable. Whilst he has made scarce few political contributions at all, he has almost singlehandedly funded at least 2 senate races in 2010, both for Republicans. The one of the two that won then authored a bill, literally on his third day in office, WHILE THE PAINT IN HIS OFFICE WAS LITERALLY STILL DRYING, trying to push Oracle hardware in a new database system being used by the Border Patrol. This despite the fact that the existing system at the time was only 2 years old and had complaints from a total of only 2 actual Border Patrol agents, total. Whilst this shows no real political allegiance towards the Republican party, it does show at least that Mr. Ellison has some preference for buying Repiblicans over buying Democrats, heh.

So yeah, there ya go. Out of the top ten richest people in America, somewhere between 7 to 9 of them are Republicans.

But really, when you have one party building its entire economic platform on the idea of “trickle-down economics” and the other pushing “trickle-up economics” it’s no wonder that the people from whom the money would be trickling down (or not) support the Republican party. It just makes common sense.

Ralph Malph says:

2 facts and 3 theories...

The facts..

A. People buy music that they’ve heard (or at least heard of) more frequently than they buy music that they haven’t previously heard. It’s nearly a 100% to 0% ratio.

B. Studies show that music sharing (i.e. piracy) actually increases music sales.

That said, I have three theories as to why the RIAA might be fighting online piracy.

1. It’s not about the piracy as such. It’s really about controlling the distribution channels of access to free music. The RIAA and their parent companies have invested countless fortunes in their networks of radio stations and cable TV channels in order to advertise their products, i.e. music. If some uncontrollable P2P network were to supplant radio stations in this role, the RIAA stand to lose their existing dominance over the marketing channel. Indie bands which actually have talent might no longer need the RIAA. A successful cartel defends it’s turf.

2. (A variant of point 1.) The sonic flatulence which the RIAA publish under the guise of pop music is so completely devoid of creative content, that they need to maintain dominance over the marketing channel not only to foist their own garbage upon the marketplace, but to keep listeners from discovering how superior indie bands actually can be.

3. The RIAA are really stupid and don’t “get” the digital age at all. They actually believe their own PR that every free download equates to a lost sale. In effect, they are an obsolete business model willing to try anything to survive – including believing their own lies.

All three of these theories may be true.

alexbert (profile) says:

Encrypted tunnels and VPN

Many countries are implementing some limitations to prohibit downloads or even torrents like Russia, for example. Anyway, there are still many ways to work around this by using any secure or encrypted tunnels and VPNs as described here http://blog.pirateray.com/post/35136605543/pirateray-and-vpn-review.
If users can download invisibly and anonymously, even DPI (deep packet inspection) will not help to determine and classify the traffic that goes from users’ PC to another port in an encrypted way packet in packet.

Anonymous Coward says:

Bullet to the head

I was in Beijing for that. They used to perform the executions in front of the old US Embassy.

Mao was a great believer in the freedom of choice?you were free to choose his way or a casket.

But, enough about Dead Great Leaders. Instead let’s talk about dead great bands like the Grateful Dead. I’m sure everyone remembers them and how Jerry would let people tape, photograph and film live concerts. In fact people were even allowed to hook their equipment up to the mixing board.

“During the early 1980s, the number of Deadheads taping shows increased, and the band created a special section for fans who wished to record the show. These tapes are still shared and circulated today via websites such as the Live Music Archive and bt.etree.org. In the earlier days of the Grateful Dead, there was question as to whether or not allowing concert-taping was in the best interest of the band, to which Garcia replied something similar to, “When we are done with it [the concerts] ? they can have it.”

All that recording and video taping of their concerts never seemed to hurt sales of their albums or Grateful Dead memorabilia. In fact it was the opposite!

So, if an old stoner could make it work by encouraging piracy why can’t all these genius level RIAA executives do the same? Could it be that they don’t care about the music, don’t care about the consumer and don’t give a shit about the people who make the music? It’s all about the cash that lines their pockets and if you don’t like it you can choke on it!

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