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Apparently Congress Wants To Pretend No One Is Really That Concerned About SOPA

Politics

from the so-that's-how-they're-playing-it dept

Mon, Dec 12th 2011 08:06pm -

Despite all of the significant concerns with SOPA, it appears that Rep. Lamar Smith won’t let a little thing like the American public stop his plan to help out his friends in Hollywood. It’s been confirmed (as has been rumored for weeks) that Smith is planning to hold the markup and followup Judiciary Committee vote over SOPA this Thursday. The manager’s amendment doesn’t really fix any but the most glaring of problems — and basically just brings the bill more in line with the already problematic PROTECT IP bill. From what we’ve heard, Smith and other SOPA supporters still don’t believe the American public really cares enough about this bill.

Plenty of folks are working to convince Smith and others that they’re underestimating the public’s opinion towards censoring the internet. EFF, Public Knowledge, American Censorship, Demand Progress, Engine Advocacy and others are all providing tools to let you speak up. If you think that Rep. Smith and others in Congress are mistaken about the public’s feelings towards these bills, pick your favorite and speak up. There’s also the amazing new site, I Work For The Internet, which is asking people to add simple photos of themselves in protest of SOPA.

Related to this, the folks at Cato have also officially come out against SOPA and PIPA with the following video:

Julian Sanchez, who appears in the video helped explain the privacy problems with the bill last week here on Techdirt. At this point, the only people we actually see supporting the bill are those in the industry itself. It appears that almost no one else is willing to speak up in support of the bill.

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Comments on “Apparently Congress Wants To Pretend No One Is Really That Concerned About SOPA”

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103 Comments
BreadGod (user link) says:

Re: Re:

Ahem. This is an essay by John Whitehead.

http://njtoday.net/2011/12/12/the-stop-online-piracy-act-yet-another-stealth-maneuver-to-control-the-internet/

He’s a prominent conservative, and even he’s opposed to SOPA. If you actually bothered to do some digging, then you will realize that many diverse groups of people oppose SOPA.

Mike Masnick (profile) says:

Re: Re:

Apparently Masnick thinks people other than tech dweebs are against SOPA and PIPA.

A million emails sent on one day and 90,000 calls? Those are all tech dweebs? Some of the biggest conservative groups (Tea Party) have come out against the bill, as have some of the biggest liberal groups (MoveOn).

If you honestly think that this is just about “tech dweebs,” you’re in for a surprise.

Meanwhile, the Hollywood effort, Creative America convinced a whopping 161 people to sign its petition over the entire month of November, despite all the Hollywood studios funding it.

It seems that pretty much everyone is against you on this. At some point, you might want to consider that perhaps you’re wrong.

Mike Masnick (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re: Re:

Mike, you’re intentionally miscounting again. We have multiple sources of petition signers. You count one. We’ve been through this before. Be honest.

But the one on your site had 161 new signers in the month of November, even as NBC Universal was threatening its partners to sign.

I mean… no offense, that’s just sad. You have to admit, Nuge, that your “grassroots” effort (paid for by the major studios) isn’t attracting anything that looks like a grassroots following?

Why? Because they know you guys are crying wolf again.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re:

You freeloaders just like laws that will enhance your capabilities to steal from others.

But one titanic problem with ContentID has received little attention: the use of ContentID by those who falsely or incorrectly assert ownership over public domain works ? works that have no copyright at all ? and then either block access to the videos, or collect the advertising revenue from these videos.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2011/dec/12/pirates-of-youtube-cory-doctorow?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:

It’s not a big surprise to me Ron Paul would be against this.

I really didn’t see Pelosi object until the day after news broke that several opponents to incumbent were using support for this as campaign fodder. To me she’s just covering her ass just to play it safe (gotta make sure potential fallout from this bill can’t come back to bite her later you know).

THe fact that even Michele Bachmann has expressed serious concerns? Now that’s saying something.

demented (profile) says:

No one – NO ONE – except the corrupt MAFIAA types and the politicians they’ve bought actually supports this. Conservatives, liberals, Repubs, Demos, nerds, scholars – all of them agree that these two bills are disasters and need to die.

And yet Smith and Congress are sticking their fingers in their ears and going, “LALALALALALA CAN’T HEAR YOU LALALALALALA NOBODY IMPORTANT HATES OUR BILL…”

I’m waiting for civil war to break out.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re:

Because no one has made any rational claim why it’s bad.

Justin Beiber going to jail?

ha, yeah, I’m sure Congress didn’t recognize that as hyperbole.

It’ll destroy DNS?

Why hasn’t child-porn blocking destroyed DNS?

Ebay, etc, being taken offline?

More obvious and baseless fear-mongering.

Those that oppose this bill have done it with such hysterical and outlandish claims that it was impossible for Congress to take them seriously.

Nice work.

btr1701 (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:

> Because no one has made any rational claim why it’s bad.

That’s the great thing about our system of government. The people don’t have to justify why a law shouldn’t be passed. The government has to justify why it should.

> it was impossible for Congress to take them seriously.

The only reason Congress isn’t taking the opposition here seriously is because its viewpoint didn’t come attached to a large check or a Caribbean vacation.

Kevin H (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:

1.5/10. All your assertions have been proven false in the very extensive coverage on this website alone. I will explain the Beiber analogy just because it really is a good example of WHY this bill is shit.

Most politicians don’t know or care who Beiber is first off. Secondly hes already made it, but perhaps there is another child who has (I use this loosely) “musical talent” who may very well be fined and possibly jailed for singing one of Beiber’s songs on youtube. The very thing that help Beiber make it, may put another person in prison.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:

I actually think you’re right on target. The opponents mass hysteria has pretty much numbed legislators. The surrender to hyperbole worked for awhile but then people looked past the veneer and saw that it won’t break the internet, isn’t censorship, won’t put Justin Beiber in jail nor takedown YouTube. Their campaign failed because while the intellectually lazy electorate may succumb to bumper sticker sloganeering, the legislators voting on this, look beyond the hyperbole and are themselves masters of bumper sticker politics. Many also remember the frantic Chicken Little dances performed in their offices by many of the same players before DMCA became law. The claims about destroying the internet then, as now were utter bullshit.

Nuge (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:2 Re:

DMCA is instance-of-title by instance-of-title skirmish, is after the fact – after infringers get their stolen revenue, is usually ignored by foreign rogue sites, and is way too costly if not way beyond the means of small content owners. Carefully constructed, SOPA and PIPA will stop US support of foreign rogue sites themselves that are in the business of trafficking in stolen content to the US as determined by an impartial court.

Mike Masnick (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:3 Re:

DMCA is instance-of-title by instance-of-title skirmish, is after the fact – after infringers get their stolen revenue, is usually ignored by foreign rogue sites, and is way too costly if not way beyond the means of small content owners.

Or, as most normal, sensible people would say, the DMCA actually targets infringing content, as opposed to SOPA’s nuclear bomb approach to taking down anything, whether infringing or not.

Back here, in the real world, where we believe in the First Amendment, that’s called prior restraint.

As for it “being ignored” by foreign sites, that’s actually rarely the case. The biggest rogue sites listed by the US Chamber of Commerce were Megaupload and Rapidshare. Both of them abide by the DMCA. And they represent about 40% of the traffic you guys call rogue.

In the meantime, it’s nice that you’ve started commenting here again. Will you finally admit that you were totally wrong on your false claim that South Korea’s entertainment industry was decimated by piracy. I provided a detailed response to that bogus claim on your Facebook page and (shocking, shockers) you never came back to respond.

Mike Masnick (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:5 Re:

You are truly the biggest liar on the internet.

Here’s a simple point you might want to learn: if I were lying, then you would easily be able to prove me wrong by presenting that facts that prove I am lying.

Jumping up and down with ad hom attacks and calling me a liar does not make it so. In fact, since you seem to come here quite often, accuse me of all sorts of things, question my mental health, and yet you have NEVER (not once) shown me to actually be a liar, I’m at a loss as to who you think you’re convincing.

BTW, how many gigs of stolen media do you have on your hard drives again, Mike “I LOVE PIRACY” Masnick?

I believe we’ve discussed this before. I don’t “love piracy” and I don’t and have never engaged in it. So the answer is zero. I don’t know if that disappoints you. I still prefer to either get the music I like from bands that are giving it out for free, or I buy it. Since Spotify launched I pay for a pro account there too. But I still buy plenty of music. I also support bands I like on Kickstarter and other platforms. But one thing I don’t do is pirate any music.

It troubles me that you continue to insist I must do so, despite us having this discussion in the past.

Now why would you do so?

And, you see, that’s the difference between a random ad hom attack and an actual lie. You claim that I love piracy. But I do not. You are lying. I can confirm that. Yet you have never shown any of my statements to be lies.

out_of_the_blue says:

Re: Re: Re:6 @ Mike Masnick IS lying.

>>> “Here’s a simple point you might want to learn: if I were lying, then you would easily be able to prove me wrong by presenting that facts that prove I am lying.”

Lying comes in many forms, and you’re fairly slippery, just like Slick Willie Clinton. YET, I presented a clear case of your outright lying in:

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20111011/17205216309/course-study-shows-that-getting-rid-drm-reduces-piracy.shtml
With my post titled:
‘NO, MIKE: “analytical modeling” NOT “empirical evidence”!’
The “study” you presented as collected data was just made-up numbers in a computer, and you then tried to imply it proves something in reality. — Your failure to correct that after two months makes it lying.

You’re getting pretty shrill in defense because you know that LIAR tag is sticking: 8 defensive posts here.

AND in any case, you arrogantly miss the fact that IF Big Media were lying, then you’d be able to pin it on them. However, you can’t get round the fact that piracy is a problem, though you try to every day.

Nuge (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:2 Re:

DMCA is instance-of-title by instance-of-title skirmish, is after the fact – after infringers get their stolen revenue, is usually ignored by foreign rogue sites, and is way too costly if not way beyond the means of small content owners. Carefully constructed, SOPA and PIPA will stop US support of foreign rogue sites themselves that are in the business of trafficking in stolen content to the US as determined by an impartial court.

Mike Masnick (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:3 Re:

DMCA is instance-of-title by instance-of-title skirmish, is after the fact – after infringers get their stolen revenue, is usually ignored by foreign rogue sites, and is way too costly if not way beyond the means of small content owners. Carefully constructed, SOPA and PIPA will stop US support of foreign rogue sites themselves that are in the business of trafficking in stolen content to the US as determined by an impartial court.

I think the Nugebot 1.0 is malfunctioning. It’s posting the exact same debunked crap hours after it already posted it — and we’d already debunked it.

Care to actually address the responses? Or do you not do that sorta thing? You certainly don’t do it on your Facebook page. I guess the studios don’t pay you enough to actually have to engage with people who have the facts on their side.

Mike Masnick (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:

Because no one has made any rational claim why it’s bad.

Bullshit. Your inability to read the myriad reports explaining why it’s bad doesn’t mean that no one has made such arguments, just like when you stick those fingers in your ears, it doesn’t mean the other kids weren’t still taunting you.

Justin Beiber going to jail?

ha, yeah, I’m sure Congress didn’t recognize that as hyperbole.

A Harvard professor has explained how that’s actually what the law says. Where’d you get your law degree?

It’ll destroy DNS?

Why hasn’t child-porn blocking destroyed DNS?

No, it’s harm DNSSEC, and child porn isn’t blocked at the DNS level.

This is why supporters of SOPA get so little respect. All they can do is lie.

Those that oppose this bill have done it with such hysterical and outlandish claims that it was impossible for Congress to take them seriously.

Well, let’s just see what happens. I think Congress is taking these complaints a lot more seriously than you imagine.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re: Re:

“A Harvard professor has explained how that’s actually what the law says. Where’d you get your law degree?”

I love this sort of comment.

The Harvard professor was very careful to avoid discussing the terms “UP TO” when it came to sentencing, and seemed more intent on putting the biggest scare possible out there. Yes, I am suggesting that the fine professor was getting very close to scaremongering.

The reality is (1) that even if stopped and charged, it is likely Beiber would get nothing except a slap on the fingers and a small fine, and (2) because “user contributed content” would be better vetted under SOPA, it is unlikely that he would have done it to start with.

What the professor did is akin to going to a part of a road where the speed limit was dropped from 50 to 40, and then pointing out all of the people who might have been fined thousands of dollars for speeding. You cannot change one side of things (the law) without considering how it would change public behaviour.

It’s bullshit, and you know it.

MAJikMARCer (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:2 Re:

it is unlikely that he would have done it to start with.

That’s very unfortunate that this law would put a chilling effect on what amounts to a fan singing his favorite songs and posting them on YouTube so his friends can see.

What about all those aspiring young film makers who want to recreate their favorite movie in their back yard?

Are you suggesting that these kids should not be posting these videos to the Internet? Maybe it’s just because YouTube is too open? What about on Facebook where it’s only shared with some people?

While the creator might be able to claim fair use, what about the hosting site? Will they be protected too?

The new wording in SOPA may help these cases a bit, but as broadly written as this is, I can’t help but feel that fair-use and safe harbor provisions will need to be beefed up/expanded to balance the equation and give normal every day users, the freedom to use the Internet for what it was designed for, the sharing of expression and ideas.

btrussell (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:4 Re:

Obviously

“Pornography or porn is the explicit portrayal of sexual subject matter for the purposes of sexual arousal and erotic satisfaction.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porn

“the depiction of erotic behavior (as in pictures or writing) intended to cause sexual excitement”
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pornography?show=0&t=1323891261

btrussell (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:6 Re:

That means we have a sick fuck, not that we have child porn.

Revulsion? Mothers are taking pics of their kids everyday. While the kids are nude even! This is normal. Finding it sexually arousing is not normal.

Should we declare a woman eating a Popsicle or a banana in public a public pornographic performance because some may get off on it?

I am sure some even consider a mother breastfeeding to be erotic, should we ban that too?

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re: Re:

You said “nigger” and “cunt”. Then you said “not nice thing”. Really? If you include racism in a post, at least include meaner words. That’s like a child calling someone a “motherfucking doo-doo head”.

Also, if I had never heard of SOPA and had limited understanding of how the web worked, if Lamar Smith came up to me, shown me your post, and said that all people who hate the SOPA bill were like that, I would become out_of_the_blue quickly,

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:2 Re:

Most of those groups appear to be outcrops of existing groups, going for “wider coverage” to make it appear like they have grass roots support. Yet, when you look at the groups, it’s the same players behind them, ex-this group and ex-that group people, past interns, and so on… and they often seem to be getting support and exposure from the larger groups.

Smells like plastic astroturf to me.

A Guy (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:3 Re:

I have never worked for, had an internship with, or taken money from any of these groups.

When I have talked about this bill with other people I hear things like “fucking politicians” and “Are you sure? That can’t be right.” With other technically inclined people, I often hear a lot of laughing.

In my experience, one side is clearly an astroturf operation, and the other side, the anti-SOPA people, have a lot of grass root support. It’s hard to get 90k calls to the House without people supporting you.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:3 Re:

Most of those groups appear to be outcrops of existing groups, going for “wider coverage” to make it appear like they have grass roots support…

Perhaps it would interest you to know that until recently, I did not participate in advocacy outside my field of interest/expertise in the computer privacy and security sectors until I started reading more about what is going on with laws like the DMCA and now SOPA/PIPA.

It may also be telling to know that I have never been an intern, member of an activist group, or even engaged in the political process outside of dispatching my civic duties of voting and Jury duty when picked. It is the activities of your side that have actually moved me to protest and activism which is true for many I know in my same age group (40 somethings).

Nice job – you pushed too hard, now reap the whirlwind…

Chilly8 says:

A few changes to note

-The latest version does not penalize cosumers for using any tool to circumvent the blacklist. Only the providers of such products and services are affected. So you are not breaking the law by using a subscription VPN service. However, if you are an an annual payment plan, you might want to change to a monthly plan, so that you are not out hundreds of dollars for an annual subscription if the Feds nick your VPN provider

-The felony streaming provisions have been changed where it now requires commercial or financial gain. So viewers of content, as well as hobbyist streamers (those tho stream without making any money) would be off the hook. However, I think that Justin TV, Ustream, Sopcast, and other platforms could be criminally liable under the law, even if an individual streamer or viewer is not. I would expect Justin, Ustream, and other US-based streaming sites to pack up and leave the country.

These two changes are welcome changes to the bill, but will they survive the conference committee, when they get the bill? It will have to be merged with the Senate version.

Interesting times lie ahead when the conference committee gets the bills. Between SOPA, PIPA, and OPEN, I expect it will be a big fight in conference committee

wvhillbilly (profile) says:

The only thing I see in this bill is enormous potential for abuse. Abuse that could even go as far as destroying the Internet, or making it unusable for its intended purpose. This bill is tilted 90 degrees on the side of copyright holders and 100% against everyone else. If the entertainment industry has its way copyright will be so airtight that any use whatever of their content will constitute infringement, thus defeating its purpose for being. Nobody would know what might constitute infringement and this bill if it becomes law probably would criminalize even normal Internet activity. And if someone had a grudge against somebody or wanted to get rid of a competitor, all he’d have to do is file a complaint against that website or person claiming infringement (no proof needed) and voila! the competing website vanishes instantly from the Web, never to be seen again. No due process, no evidence, just Poof! and it’s gone.

SOPA and PIPA are very extremely dangerous laws that need to be stopped at all costs, before they tear the Internet to shreds.

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