Pirate Party Building Up More And More Support: 9% Nationwide In Germany
from the not-to-be-discounted dept
A month ago, when the German Pirate Party took 9% of the vote in the Berlin Parliament elections, it was definitely a surprise to a lot of people. Some brushed it off as being just a weird anomaly in a regional election. However, the success and the attention it brought seems to have increased more widespread attention on the entire German Pirate Party, which has now surged to 9% nationally, which currently puts it in 4th place among political parties — “well ahead of the hard-line socialist Left (Die Linke) party and the pro-business Free Democrats (FDP).”
I have no idea if this is sustainable through any actual elections, but it is notable. People are realizing that the Pirate Party is concerned with serious issues — even as some try to pretend (incorrectly) they just want stuff for free. The regional success seems to have convinced more people nationally that the Party is viable, which could make things interesting if they can keep this momentum going. Along those lines, it’s worth noting that Germany has one of the most ridiculous copyright setups imaginable, with GEMA’s overbearing nature, and the fact that all major label music is blocked on YouTube over GEMA’s policies (whereas pretty much every other country has worked out a licensing deal). It seems that the more draconian you are with copyright, the more it drives interest in efforts like the Pirate Party, which seeks to push back. Countries (and industries) that support stricter copyright might want to take note.
Filed Under: germany, pirate party, politics
Comments on “Pirate Party Building Up More And More Support: 9% Nationwide In Germany”
what a shame the next German elections are not until around, i believe, 2013. would have been interesting if sooner. the outcome may even then surprise some people. problem is, between now and those elections, whenever they are, a lot of lobbying can be done
You say that they are not all about one issue, and then you immediate hit on that one issue.
Sorry Mike, but your rah-rah cheerleading smells like shit even from this far away.
Re: Clarity.
Are you attempting to state in some convoluted fashion that the Pirate Party’s only aim is to re-instate major record label music on YouTube in Germany and perhaps give the shaft to GEMA?
‘Cuz that’s totally two things…
Or, did you have some other point to make?
(Let’s see–ah yes, finish with an ad hominem.)
I mean, “Or did you have some other point to make, you dullard?”
Re: Re: Clarity.
“Are you attempting to state in some convoluted fashion that the Pirate Party’s only aim is to re-instate major record label music on YouTube in Germany and perhaps give the shaft to GEMA?”
Nope, I am trying to state that even Mike Masnick isn’t able to find any better use for the Pirate Party, except perhaps to kick his favorite industry dogs again.
Mike says that the PP is concerned with “serious issues”, and then can only use them to slam GEMA. What other serious issues are they really addressing?
They are a one trick pony, and Mike is using that.
Also, in the 9%, what is the demographic breakdown? Is it mostly the 18-24s who talk a good game and never show up at the polls?
Re: Re: Re: Clarity.
As stated in the article “9% of the vote” (reading comprehension: don’t leave home without it.)
Also, GEMA’s not a political party–unless you count lobbyists. 😛
And, so you can stop asking/quit claiming ignorance:
Time spent: 1 minutes or so of Google + copypasta.
Not that difficult–quitcherbitchin.
Re: Re: Re:2 Clarity.
“As stated in the article “9% of the vote” (reading comprehension: don’t leave home without it.)”
Too bad you left home without it today. What is the demographic? Is it 9% spread over the whole spectrum, or is it 9% of the voters, mostly younger?
Remember: this wasn’t a vote, it was a public opinion poll. This isn’t actually people casting ballots.
As for the PP policies, I am not making claims. It’s Mike who seems to use them as a one trick pony (why is GEMA even in this article, except for Mike to whip them some more?)
Re: Re: Re:3 Clarity.
Well, when your only response is “no it’s not!” then that’s enough feeding for you for one day.
(Back to ad hominem, are we?)
*Ahem* Well, that’s enough feeding for you for one day, you prolapsed monkey colon.
I hope your good trolling abilities combined with your apparent complete inability to follow links serves you in good stead in the future. Cheers.
Re: Re: Re:4 Clarity.
Umm, not sure where you are going on this, I didn’t attack you in any way (except to use your own words back on you).
So, would you like to address my points, or are you just running away?
Re: Re: Re:3 Clarity.
Yes, last month they got 9% of the vote in Berlin and this month opinion polls are suggesting 9% support nationwide.
The demographic? I don’t know but do imagine it is likely to be younger people, who are more clued in to how technology and modern culture actually work.
But the idea that they wouldn’t vote is pretty much blown out of the water by the elections in Berlin last month.
That parties in other countries have failed to represent the interests of the younger demographic is probably why they tend not to vote.
That in Germany a party is representing their interests may explain why a non voting demographic just made major inroads.
Whether or not they will sustain or increase their current level of support until the next nationwide elections is another matter.
Re: Re: Re:4 Clarity.
Thanks.
The article is discussing “polling” and the number of people polled in the survey. They did not show a national election where the PP got 9% of the vote.
Almost every country (except those who have mandatory voting like Australia) have issues getting the young people to vote. Clearly, the things that interest us in our teens and 20s (like making bad rap music ala Marcus Carab) are not compatible with political thoughts. Many of the people in that age group have very idealistic views, ones that are not tainted by reality or any true responsibility. I often think it is the reason there are few younger candidates, because they mostly cannot find a way to fit their flights of fancy into a true political universe.
If you find a hot button issue that resonates with these younger voters (like piracy), you may be able to get them to the polls in significant numbers, and they will vote for you without consideration of other parties, because established parties are “old and out of date… the buggy whips of politics”.
That is why the demographic question is so significant. Has the PP made significant inroads across the whole electorate, or are they still the one trick pony party playing to the youth, having more fun tweaking noses than actually accomplishing anything?
Re: Re: Re:5 Clarity.
Actually the main reason there aren’t that many younger candidates is that many countries have a minimum age before you can hold a position in the legislature. There were several under 30 candidates in the last South Australian election, and their party managed to get around 3.7% of the vote in their district, and in the upper house got 0.8%. That’s not much, but the party was local to SA, only had 6 candidates running out of 30 or so possible positions across the state, and the party was only active for a few months before the election.
I’m sure if there were less restrictions on who could run for office you’d find a lot of younger people willing to put their hat in the ring.
Re: Re: Re:5 Clarity.
Great, so you did actually have a reasonable question and a valid point to make. Honestly, this is nice to see.
Hint:Stick to the facts that you have and stay away from playground taunts (that add nothing to your argument) such as:
That is, IF you’re truly interested in the discussion, and not just trolling.
Re: Re: Re:6 Clarity.
The “rah-rah shit” will always get tagged, because it is so hard to try to argue middle ground facts when the story starts “way over there”.
As for Marcus, he gets everything he deserves.
Re: Re: Re:3 Clarity.
“why is GEMA even in this article, except for Mike to whip them some more?”
It seems like relevant background information regarding the political conditions in Germany, and offers one possible insight into why the Pirate party may be seeing an increase in popularity.
To someone like yourself that is well versed in all of this it appears redundant but to the occasional reader it brings clarity to the post.
There are other people to think of besides just the children.
Re: Re: Re:3 Clarity.
The “9% of the vote” is exactly that: 9% of the vote.
The polling institutes try to predict the outcome if election day was today, and they are notoriously precise and accurate.
The most recent poll ahead of the Berlin election gave PPDE 9% of the vote, too. The election gave them 8.9%.
Cheers,
Rick
Re: Re: Re:2 Clarity.
“Time spent: 1 minutes or so of Google + copypasta.”
I wish I had a machine that could copy pasta. 😉
Re: Re: Re:3 Clarity.
I have one, but it only does penne.
Re: Re: Re: Clarity.
I believe the point is that in a country with some of the worst offending behaviour by the legacy industries, support for the pirate party is highest.
The lesson that can be taken from that fact, is that the more the industry attempts to extract monopoly rents at the expense of the ordinary people, the greater the resistance to the behaviours of the incumbent players becomes.
The good news, for most people, consumers and creators, is that the legacy industry players are like you and cannot even begin to understand that there is a lesson to be learned, never mind to adjust their behaviour accordingly.
Re: Re: Re: Clarity.
You seem to be implying that the other political parties–nationally in Germany and also globally in every country–are not also one trick ponies.
Other parties are one-trick ponies too, it’s just that their trick is laying on their collective backs to spread their legs for corporations.
Re: Re: Re:2 Clarity.
Actually, you hit one of the problems that comes up in countries that have proportional representation systems. Too often single issue or narrow focus parties come into being, and people vote for them because they feel strongly on that single issue. In the end, you get a fractured government that has plenty of people yelling but little in the way of cohesive movement.
It’s painful to watch.
Re: Re: Re: Clarity.
The Pirate Party are more about open cultural sharing, commonly derided as “piracy” by certain vested interests. The difference is that, while closed may get people in short term, long-term opening of your platform offers a lot more economically than locking up and throwing the toys out of the pram whenever someone disagrees with you.
Re: Re: Re:2 Clarity.
open long term when you have nothing created short term is the sharing of blank space.
There is a balance, which you cannot seem to see.
Re: Re: Re:3 Clarity.
So you’re saying that without IP laws, nothing would be created. The entirety of historical documentation and oral tradition would seem to disagree with you.
Re: Re: Re:4 Clarity.
Since we’re ignoring reality, I’m hoping that abandoning copyright law will bring Shakespeare, Michelangelo, Da Vinci, Homer, Plato, Socrates and Aristotle back from the dead.
Re: Re: Re:5 Clarity.
No, abandoning copyright won’t brink Shakespeare back to life: what will actually happen is that once Shakespear’s works are pulled out of the public domain and covered by copyright again, Shakespeare will spring back to life and start creating new works again.
Re: Re: Re:4 Clarity.
“So you’re saying that without IP laws, nothing would be created.”
No, where did I say that? Can you say “strawman”?
Re: Re: Re:5 Clarity.
“open long term when you have nothing created short term is the sharing of blank space.”
Blank space implying emptiness, nothing created short-term implying what it says.
Re: Re: Re:6 Clarity.
One empty space in a parking lot full of cars is “blank space”. You can imply from a single empty parking spot that the lot would be empty, but that would make your wrong.
If you take away the systems that support content creation on any level, it is likely that the content that was being made at that level will no longer happen. Will the other content that was created in other ways or systems still happen? Sure.
Since we are dealing with reality, we have to accept that what is in that particular space right now is the content everyone wants, everyone pirates, and so on. Call it what you want (some say “shit”), the commercial content (particularly “hollywood” content) is some of the most pirated and in demand stuff around. Remove the systems that make it even marginally possible to make money off of it, and to license it under the law, and you may find that this particular content isn’t made anymore, creating that “empty space”.
WIll Marcus Carab and his sort still make their (some say “shit”) performance art stuff? I am sure they will. Their space won’t be blank, just not what most people want.
Re: Re: Re:7 Clarity.
Remove the systems that make it even marginally possible to make money off of it, and to license it under the law, and you may find that this particular content isn’t made anymore, creating that “empty space”.
So, you are saying roughly what Marcus claimed: that without copyright, content would not be produced.
This is, of course, not true. Even if you totally removed copyright twenty years ago, there’s no evidence whatsoever that movies like Avatar wouldn’t have been produced.
They may, in fact, have been less costly to produce. (See the Golan interview to see how copyright protection astronomically increases the costs to perform a symphony orchestra; similar things happen for other forms of art.) In that case, it’s just as likely that lack of copyright laws would increase artistic production, even at the “Hollywood content” level.
Your premise is that “copyright = money.” Not only is that not necessarily true, it has been proven to be false, at least in some situations. That, I think, is the point you’re deliberately ignoring.
Re: Re:
Just sayin…if you are still smelling shit…you might want to take a shower…kthanks
So ein Beschi?!
What’s really a shame about this in the United States is that the Pirate Party, and any other third party, will never get off the ground because our system is designed to have just two major parties. Paralimentary systems like Europe has are more representative of the people.
There’s only been 2 cases in the United States where a major political party fell apart and got replaced by a third party, both over 150 years ago.
The first was the Federalists, who were really radical pro strong govern and pro rich people. They envisioned the kind of government we have today, yet their party quickly fell apart after just a few elections, because the Democratic Republicans stole all their good ideas, leaving the Federalists with only really radical ideas left to push.
The second was the Whig party, they were generally a more pro-north party back when Slavery was still around. The Whig’s fell apart because they managed to piss off both sides with the slavery issue. Their failure led to the raise of the Republican Party, founded ironically in the North Eastern states as a radical pro-north screw-the-south party that wasn’t going to even bother trying to get on the ballot in the south, let alone try to get their votes.
Re: Re:
We have had a lot of third parties develop in the US in the last 150 years. What has generally happened is that if the third party got to the point where it became a serious threat, then its message gets adopted by one of the major parties. I’m not saying that is a good thing, it is just a description of what has happened.
We see that to some extent going on with the Occupy movement as the Democrats seem to be embracing it. The question is whether the Democrats will really embrace it or just give lip service. Embracing the movement would probably mean giving up those big campaign contributions and the revolving-door jobs with big industries that they are currently in bed with.
Re: Re: ...then its message gets adopted by one of the major parties
So really your US parties don?t stand for any particular position, they are just brand names.
Re: Re: Re: ...then its message gets adopted by one of the major parties
Correct. When one brand stops bringing in heaps of cash and young, virile interns; the party in question just re-images itself to compensate. The campaign promises change, but the end result remains the same.
Of course, this isn’t all that different from most political parties the world over.
Re: Re: Re:
“We see that to some extent going on with the Occupy movement as the Democrats seem to be embracing it. The question is whether the Democrats will really embrace it or just give lip service. Embracing the movement would probably mean giving up those big campaign contributions and the revolving-door jobs with big industries that they are currently in bed with.”
Lip service. Obama has used the OWS campaign to attack Republicans (Link). Basically, his avoidance of the issue comes in this sentence here:
“We had the biggest financial crisis since the Great Depression – huge collateral damage throughout the country, all across main street. And yet, you are still seeing some of the same folks who acted irresponsibly trying to crack down on abusive practices that got us in the situation in the first place”
Never mind the fact that the bailout of AIG was a personal favor to those that helped him get elected. And most of it went to bailout the CEOs with bonuses. Let’s blame the Repubs to look good while ignoring why people say they’re fighting against money in government.
Re: Re:
The US situation is undeniably worsened by poor democratic structure but yet, who gets elected is fundamentally and undeniably up to the electorate.
So, like all other democratic countries, you get the government you deserve, which given the last decade implies that pretty much all of you have done some terrible things, at the very least in some past life.
Re: Re:
What about the Mugwamps? That’s a party I could support.
It will surge in the next polls
I’d say the support will surge during the next weeks because of the whole state-sponsored trojan story. The question is, whether they can maintain the momentum until the next elections for the Bundestag.
Re: It will surge in the next polls
The link in the previous post got botched, so here it is again: http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,15449054,00.html
LMAO @ Pirate Mike. Sure, sure, sure. You’re not pro-piracy and you’re not a piracy apologist. It’s just sad that you can’t just admit it.
Re: Re:
You should try shooting the messenger even harder. Then you’ll succeed.
Re: Re: Re:
Funny how Pirate Mike’s supporters don’t even deny how obvious he is being about it.
Re: Re: Re: Re:
Obvious about what? That things are happening? Oh. My. God.
Re: Re: Re:2 Re:
Obvious that every story that is even marginally pro-piracy gets run here, and anything against is either ignored (hotfile order) or played down as meaningless or “disappointing”.
One sided doesn’t even start to cover it. Misleading is getting closer.
Re: Re: Re:3 Re:
Misleading to what? Maybe you should start your own blog?
Re: Re: Re:3 Re:
One sided doesn’t even start to cover it.
Yet I notice that neither you nor any other troll or shill here has bothered to present any other side, you just keep repeating that Mike is something which he is obviously not in the vain hope that maybe, just maybe, someone might believe you.
Re: Re: Re:3 Re:
Funny how Mike’s detractors latch on to the minor points and completely miss the free speech and privacy issues that are the major points of the articles.
FUD abounds, but it isn’t from this blog.
The British Piraye party are asking people for their views on ALL issues so they can put forward a viable alternative.
from the UK pirate party web site
The Pirate Party UK will be holding a public policy consultation from the 3rd of October until the 3rd of November at piratethispolicy.co.uk. We have listened to party members, voters and the public as well as going out and speaking to those people who have had an opportunity to vote for one of our candidates in elections. We watched as our brothers and sisters in Berlin reinvigorated their voters and overturned a legacy of decline and apathy. It is time for the Pirate Party UK to do the same.
Perhaps the German version has done the same or may take a leaf from the UK book .
Book publishers demand from politicians: don't follow the Pirate Party's demands
In his opening speech the president of the “B?rsenverein des Deutschen Buchhandels” (lobby group of publishers and big book retailers) demanded, that the “established parties shouldn’t give in to the demands of a small group of vocal internet activists”.
You can read more of his FUD at http://www.boersenverein.de/sixcms/media.php/976/Er%F6ffnung%20Honnefelder%20DIGITAL.pdf
This is why they want Protect IP
RIAA: Hey Judge, we want to get this one website taken offline. *hands paper showing Pirate Party website*
Judge: Well certainly. It does have the word pirate in it after all and it looks like they are throwing a party. I don’t need to do any fact checking here or actually understand what I am signing. I am sure it is accurate.
ICE: woof woof!
RIAA: That’s a good lapdog. Now go! Fetch website!
It is not all about young people.
I suspect that some of the support comes from people that are old enough to remember the East-German Stasi surveillance. The pirate party is against surveillance and very pro-privacy.
Nina Nailed It
Concerning GEMA, Nina Paley nailed it — German Entitlement Music Authoritarians.
Why isn’t the pirate flag on Techdirt’s masthead?
Is Pirate Mike Masnick scared or something?
Re: Re:
Because this isn’t a pirate related website.
I can’t speak for Mike, but he appears to not be scared.
One can’t say the same for the content industry so adamantly refusing to change with the times. Silencing or ousting those within their ranks who dare question the status quo and voice opinions that are not towing the corporate lines.
Ditto the pro-copyright/anti-piracy extremists. If there’s nothing to fear, why such the obnoxious and constant vocalization and dismissals on this site? By that I mean, most of the “arguments” are personal attacks (on the sites readers and on Mike) or things along the lines of “you are all criminals”, “the law is the law and it’s against you and your freetard thinking”, etc. That or deflections (for nice examples of that, see the alternate DNS article) and avoidance of answering straight out asked questions.
Someone’s scared, but it isn’t Mike or most of the readers here. It’s those who seek to silence voices that question and try and get others to see what’s going on.
Re: Re: Re:
Because this isn’t a pirate related website.
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Re: Re: Re:
“Because this isn’t a pirate related website.”
Oh god, you owe me a new monitor, I just sprayed mine with cola.
Mike should hire you to write for him. You have the first requirement down pat, the abilty to ignore reality with a straight face.
Re: Re: Re: Re:
The trolls aren’t even trying anymore, are they?
Re: Re: Re:2 Re:
It appears not. Apparently, if you aren’t saying what they’re saying, then clearly you’re a pirate or pro-piracy (at the very least). If your website doesn’t repeat verbatim what the MPAA’s blog does, you’re pro-piracy. If you question Protect IP and possible negative repercussions it may have, you’re pro-piracy. Etc etc etc.
It’s amusing and quite sad to say the least.
On one of the other articles, I’m the guy who did the “Modernist Mike” post. Which is funny, I didn’t mean a word. But without any effort I sounded just like they do. Repeat word of the week, don’t back up what you say with proof, make a personal attack on Mike, call people criminals, and then walk off. All it takes to be one of them.
Re: Re: Re: Re:
Just because you say it doesn’t make it so. (Did I stoop to your age bracket enough to understand me?) Such continued allegations without any way to prove them in a succinct and irrefutable manner are childish at best.
Re: Re: Re: Re:
“You have the first requirement down pat, the abilty to ignore reality with a straight face.”
One could say the same thing about you being a paid shill. You ignore reality. You spread FUD. You make personal attacks. You are of the “if you’re not entirely and completely with us, then you’re against us” mindset. Etc. You and the other AC who commented before you.
It literally takes a completely ignoring reality mindset to think this site is remotely pro-piracy. It’s pro-new business models. It’s pro-questioning what our government and the corporations are up to. Etc. But it’s not pro-piracy. Mike himself has commented multiple times on the issue. Direct quotes and all. Which myself and several others have repeatedly pointed out to you and the other ACs. Still you ignore the reality, the facts, the proof, the evidence, etc. For whatever deluded reason.
Re: Re: Re:2 Re:
Mike Masnick is full of shit and so are you for trying to con people with more of this kind of BS.
It’d be funny if it wasn’t so incredibly transparent and pathetic.
Re: Re: Re:3 Re:
“Mike Masnick is full of shit and so are you for trying to con people with more of this kind of BS.
It’d be funny if it wasn’t so incredibly transparent and pathetic.”
Why is it everything you say can be easily applied to yourself?
Also, notice how I can present proof to back up what I say? For instance, all your comments are exactly that, BS. You are “full of sh*t”. It’d be funny, if it wasn’t so incredibly transparent and pathetic. Aww. I mean, we love you, troll.
Present some proof, actual proof, an exact quote or evidence or something, that Mike Masnick is full of shit. You can’t. Thus, it’s nothing but your unproven and completely wrong opinion.
Re: Re: Re:4 Re:
It seems reality is a difficult concept for freetards.
Payback is a bitch and karma is the most powerful force on earth.
Enjoy your dirt lunch, douchebag.
Re: Re: Re:5 Re:
By payback you mean your content for free?
Oh that is mighty generous of you 🙂
Re: Re: Re:5 Re:
I say “present some proof” and this is the response you come back with?
No proof/evidence to support any of your claims at all. An off topic remark about payback and karma and an insult. Lol. Was I right on the money or what about how to speak like a troll? [he ask rhetorically, because he knows the answer is “yes”]
Payback is indeed a b*tch. And karma is what I believe in. Perhaps then, after decades of screwing over the ACTUAL content creators and paying customers, things are the way they are. Your misdeeds have finally caught up with you.
Oh, and fyi, I’m not a freetard. I don’t download a thing. I pay for all my entertainment. I don’t condone/approve of file sharing. I understand the reasons behind it, and no “you just want free stuff” IS NOT the only reason for it. But don’t confuse that, in your deluded sense of reality, for me being pro-piracy. However, I do take a stance on having my rights and privacy invaded on in the interest of protecting a monopoly/profits (for a very small minority).
Enjoy your day Mr I Can’t Respond Intelligently Or Without Resorting To Insults (You want to know why people might copyright infringe your stuff? I’ll tell you why. I would honestly do it, just because you’re a d*ck. And to piss you off. If I did do that, but I don’t so you’re sorta safe.)
Re: Re: Re:3 Re:
You should be defending him, after all he is an artist isn’t he?