One Ninjavideo Defendant Pleads Guilty; Expect Him To Testify Against The Others

from the they're-going-to-lose dept

When the government indicted five people for being involved with Ninjavideo, we noted that the government’s case looked a hell of a lot stronger than many of its other efforts involving seizing websites, and we predicted that the people involved were likely to lose in court. So it came as little surprise that one, Matthew Smith, has already pled guilty. Of course, knowing a little about how these things work, it’s pretty clear that the feds did a plea bargain deal with this guy, and he’s now likely to testify against the others. That’s the basic deal: plead guilty to these lesser charges (two out of the six charges), provide evidence against everyone else, get a promise of less time in jail (which the judge can ignore).

This is why some other countries don’t allow plea bargains. It makes it way too easy for people to agree to say whatever the feds want in other cases, just to protect their own hide.

I still think that the feds have a much stronger case against Ninjavideo — though it still seems like this should be a civil suit, rather than a criminal suit. Separately, from other information I’ve seen, it appears that the feds do get some things in the indictment incorrect, including the claim that Ninjavideo hosted videos. That was part of the reason why I thought Ninjavideo was going to lose badly, but others have pointed out that while Ninjavideo tries very hard to make users think it hosts the videos, in actuality, it does not. Still, at this point, given the other activities of those involved in the site, I’m not sure that distinction matters. And now that Smith is likely to appear against the others, my original prediction stands: everyone else is going to lose badly, whether or not they get plea bargain deals as well.

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Comments on “One Ninjavideo Defendant Pleads Guilty; Expect Him To Testify Against The Others”

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62 Comments
Anonymous Coward says:

I love piracy with a passion, but that part of piracy where people make private forums is against the piracy I love.

So I don’t sympathize with them, still I feel sorry for those people, they don’t deserve to be treated as criminals.

That is why I will always support open culture till the day I die.

Now anyone wants to pirate some “Annoying orange”?
http://www.youtube.com/user/realannoyingorange

ps: Since piracy is the new word for sharing that is the way I’m using it.

Anonymous Coward says:

“I still think that the feds have a much stronger case against Ninjavideo — though it still seems like this should be a civil suit, rather than a criminal suit.”

Mike, they took in almost half a million dollars worth of ill gotten gains from this criminal enterprise. This is quite possibly one of the clearest examples of where criminal copyright infringement comes in. It’s not hard to see, unless you cover your eyes and intentionally look the other direction.

Jay (profile) says:

Re: Re:

“Mike, they took in almost half a million dollars worth of ill gotten gains from this criminal enterprise.”

… What? The ad payments were ~ $20 to $30. Unless the Feds have some secret info they aren’t sharing, it’s kind of hard to say where the money came from. It could be a job they worked on the side, or it could be merged with the 8 other places seized, since Ninjathis was added to the complaint against Ninjavideo about a year ago. So unless you have something new from the indictment, how do you explain 18 payments equating to $500,000 mixed between only the admins?

“This is quite possibly one of the clearest examples of where criminal copyright infringement comes in.”

Yeah, a conspiracy to commit copyright infringement when they had merely links like TVShack or Roja. This is a great starter case.

out_of_the_blue says:

Re: Re: @ "Jay": READ THE 2ND LINK, don't remain willfully ignorant.

“Smith admitted that he made agreements with online advertising entities to generate income for the website, and he and his co-conspirators collected more than $500,000 during the website’s two-and-a-half years of operation.”

Now if you have any honesty, admit the facts.

Planespotter (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re: @ "Jay": READ THE 2ND LINK, don't remain willfully ignorant.

All depends on the costs of the servers and hosting arrangements in place, it does seem like rather a lot of cash though given the fact that no files where hosted and they were operating as nothing more that a link site with embedded videos… I can’t remember the site too greatly as I was never bothered with shite quality streams, they had some system for playing streams that I didn’t like and even though they briefly affiliated with a documentary release team that I had involvement in I never liked the admins or the site much.

out_of_the_blue says:

Re: Re: Re:2 @ "Jay": READ THE 2ND LINK, don't remain willfully ignorant.

You irrelevant non-point about costs is another attempt to just plain dodge the FACT of INCOME: “collected more than $500,000”. There’s no two ways to look at that. It’s now FACT established in open court. If you expect anyone to stick with you that punishments are draconian, then you’re damn well going to have to admit FACTS.

Jay (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:3 @ "Jay": READ THE 2ND LINK, don't remain willfully ignorant.

No one’s dodging anything.

The amounts stated are:

$3.33
$50.00
$20.00

through Paypal. I’ll say the largest amount from the transactions MIGHT HAVE been $200. At most. Mike has said on numerous occasions that Adsense makes little to no money from Google, and the people were warned about using it through the copyright infringement.

So it’s basic math. No where can I discern how they made $500,000 among them from advertisements. So I can’t believe the numbers unless I have a chance to calculate them. And that can’t happen until the financial records, as well as the domain proceeds are figured out. What I would be wary of is that they’ve mixed the amounts of other places. Right now, it’s a game of shenanigans and the FBI holds the cards.

So again. No rhetoric. How can these amounts add up to $500K with few references to the income of the people involved?

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:4 @ "Jay": READ THE 2ND LINK, don't remain willfully ignorant.

Jay,

If you don’t believe Matthew Smith’s own sworn statement, then you advance from the level of piracy apologist to the freetard equivalent of a Holocaust denier.

Now, as the leading snitch in the case; he has to testify against his (former) friends. The one thing that the prosecutors will be absolutely sure of is that his statement is 100% accurate. They will run down every single detail so that defense lawyers don’t find something to impeach his testimony with.

So question the $500,000 all you like. The research that went into determining that number is probably a bit more in depth than your own.

Jay (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:5 @ "Jay": READ THE 2ND LINK, don't remain willfully ignorant.

“Now, as the leading snitch in the case; he has to testify against his (former) friends. The one thing that the prosecutors will be absolutely sure of is that his statement is 100% accurate. They will run down every single detail so that defense lawyers don’t find something to impeach his testimony with.”

You mean manipulated. Based on what’s happening with the FBI’s massive list of informants, they use one person to inform on others. But I’ll wait to see this because from information I’ve read, the indictment isn’t 100% accurate. I guess that’s why we have a little thing called “innocent until proven guilty” in a court of law, right?

” The research that went into determining that number is probably a bit more in depth than your own.”

As I said before and I will say again, if you can show how they made that money in 18 payments when they’re so low, feel free. Otherwise, your little jibe in the beginning is lost when the government has been known to go for frivolous cases or cases where they use a massive list of people to spy for crimes.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:6 @ "Jay": READ THE 2ND LINK, don't remain willfully ignorant.

“Now, as the leading snitch in the case; he has to testify against his (former) friends. The one thing that the prosecutors will be absolutely sure of is that his statement is 100% accurate. They will run down every single detail so that defense lawyers don’t find something to impeach his testimony with.”

You mean manipulated.

Hiding money is harder than you think. Even cash is tough. I’d guess, given the nature of their business that all the money moved electronically. I doubt anyone is cooking the numbers. These are kids, not seasoned criminals with underworld laundering connections. Get real.

Based on what’s happening with the FBI’s massive list of informants, they use one person to inform on others.

Smith isn’t really an informant. He was a co-conspirator who won the race to the US Attorney’s office to cut a deal and snitch his friends out. So much for the great moral crusade of “sharing”. Like all the others, it’s about the money not free speech or due process or sharing. It’s about the money.

But I’ll wait to see this because from information I’ve read, the indictment isn’t 100% accurate. I guess that’s why we have a little thing called “innocent until proven guilty” in a court of law, right?

Smith is guilty in the eyes of the court and the world. He pled out and agreed to testify against his accomplices in exchange for less time in jail. It happens all the time in a variety of criminal enterprises around the country. The rest with plead as well. No way they risk trial with Smith ready to set them on fire.

” The research that went into determining that number is probably a bit more in depth than your own.”

As I said before and I will say again, if you can show how they made that money in 18 payments when they’re so low, feel free.

I don’t ned to prove jack shit. The US Attorney has already shown evidence of crimes involving the defendant collecting in excess of 500k to the apparent satisfaction of Smith and his lawyer. Otherwise he’d be going to trial.

Otherwise, your little jibe in the beginning is lost when the government has been known to go for frivolous cases or cases where they use a massive list of people to spy for crimes.

The above is gibberish. What frivolous case? The one Smith just pled guilty to and is going to prison for? The one his co-defendants are going to prison for? What “massive list of people to spy for crimes”. WTF are you even talking about?

You should read what you write. You’ve devolved into one of the nuttier apologists on this board recently. You can’t simply ignore facts. And you argue stupid shit that has everything to do with the nature of the crime and nothing to do with the facts and law. It’s getting embarrassing Jay.

Jay (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:7 @ "Jay": READ THE 2ND LINK, don't remain willfully ignorant.

“I doubt anyone is cooking the numbers. These are kids, not seasoned criminals with underworld laundering connections. Get real.”

Cooking? No. Inflating or conflating? Possibly.

Again, I said there’s a possibility that the numbers are mixed. Part of it might be from their jobs while another part of it is donations. We don’t know and ICE hasn’t made this part known to anyone. So unless you know where the money is coming from, in 18 payments, especially given the wire transfer laws that would stop them from transferring large amounts, you’re guessing.

” He was a co-conspirator who won the race to the US Attorney’s office to cut a deal and snitch his friends out. So much for the great moral crusade of “sharing”. Like all the others, it’s about the money not free speech or due process or sharing. It’s about the money.”

I just finished the documentary that was linked in the article in how the government stacks the deck against people to keep their 90% conviction ratings. I doubt this was about money and you’re still not proving that you know where it came from.

” The US Attorney has already shown evidence of crimes involving the defendant collecting in excess of 500k to the apparent satisfaction of Smith and his lawyer. Otherwise he’d be going to trial.”

No, they aren’t guilty and I’ve read the indictment and my point stands. The numbers don’t match. So if this goes to trial (which I’m going to doubt since they want to pin this on whomever looks like the leader) then we can see how solid or flimsy the case is. I wouldn’t be surprised if plea deals are doled out, similar to what happened with the RNC bombing plot.

But just because one person was given a plea deal does not make the facts true.

“The above is gibberish. What frivolous case?”

See that blue text for “frivolous?”. That was the frivolous case, where the government tried to go after a person for modding an Xbox. It failed miserably. Then, there’s other cases such as the RNC plot where informants are used to entrap people to make a crime worse.

In regards to Matthew’s involvement, I only know of it from the indictment, that he helped to develop the app for NV. PCWorld has it listed., Sadly, we can’t see the site to debate this because oh look, it’s taken down so there’s little to no public discourse about it. Fancy that…

” You can’t simply ignore facts.”

I haven’t. I’m questioning the facts given. They aren’t making sense because the numbers don’t add up. You can continue to try berating or you can explain how payment processes of $20 equate to hundreds of thousands. If not, you’re in the same boat as I am and have to wait and see what happens.

” And you argue stupid shit that has everything to do with the nature of the crime and nothing to do with the facts and law.”

Let’s see if I remember all the details correctly…

They had their site taken down … Complaint comes in a full six months after the site is taken down with no way to complain to a judge about this. The people have to wait a full year and a half for an indictment on five videos that have gone on to make more than $500K in revenue but somehow, because it’s released early on THIS website, they’re interfering with the profits of Hollywood. And this exact process, the jailing of people for running a website with links on it, a conspiratorial look at people who come together to build something based on donations, not “illicit” or “ill gotten” goods, but people freely exchanging money for a service along with cheap ads, THIS is the future envisioned by Hollywood and Protect IP?

“Everyone is a criminal that isn’t a part of Hollywood”

You’re a sad man, bucko. I feel sorry for you and the humanity you’ve lost in order to sell yourself out with this shill game.

If this is what the law promises, there won’t be innovation. There won’t be more people paying for Hollywood content. I guess turning the world into criminals will be a great way to show how copyright enforcement’s ineffective, but I for one, can only shake my head as I watch the people lose their civil liberties for one small industry’s profit.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:8 @ "Jay": READ THE 2ND LINK, don't remain willfully ignorant.

@Jay

Jesus Christ. You ignore the facts in the indictment, you ignore the facts in the confession and then you formulate a half-baked conspiracy theory on the partially disclosed portfolio of evidence. Ask yourself this Jay. If similar circumstances occurred in a drug or illegal gambling case, would you apply the same unwillingness to accept the facts? I say no. Your desperation to aid, abet, excuse and coddle criminal infringing leads you to willfully ignore what any unbiased person would readily accept as fact…. including Smith and his lawyer.

You’ve really started a freefall into tinfoil hat zealotry. And the crazier and more unreasonable you become, the easier you are to simply dismiss as a total crackpot and buffoon.

I guess that’s the price of admission to the Mike Masnick Personality(such as it is) Cult.

Any Mouse (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:9 @ "Jay": READ THE 2ND LINK, don't remain willfully ignorant.

Plea deal confessions generally are worth about as much as confessions that are wrung out of someone over the course of 72 hours of nonstop interrogation. Frighten someone sufficiently and they will say ANYTHING to save their own hides. There’s no way to prove or disprove his ‘sworn statement.’ I’ll wait to see actual evidence.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:8 @ "Jay": READ THE 2ND LINK, don't remain willfully ignorant.

You know Jay. I’m getting worried. There are psychiatric drugs that can help you:

Part of it might be from their jobs while another part of it is donations.

Are you out of your fucking mind? Go show me a drug case where the dealer’s legitimate (job) earnings were lumped in with the financial computation in the plea bargain.

I just finished the documentary that was linked in the article in how the government stacks the deck against people to keep their 90% conviction ratings. I doubt this was about money and you’re still not proving that you know where it came from.

Oh, well.. a documentary you say. Have you ever ben on a jury jay? Try spending a day in a criminal court and see first hand how many defendants who come to trial you’d acquit if you were on a jury. There’s a 90% conviction rate because more than 90% are guilty. Half of the ones who are acquitted are guilty too but manage a reasonable doubt or technicality.

” The US Attorney has already shown evidence of crimes involving the defendant collecting in excess of 500k to the apparent satisfaction of Smith and his lawyer. Otherwise he’d be going to trial.”

No, they aren’t guilty and I’ve read the indictment and my point stands.

What the fuck do you mean they’re not guilty? Smith confessed and proclaimed his guilt and is prepared to testify as to the criminal conduct of his accomplices.

The numbers don’t match.

The gloves don’t fit so you must acquit? Please.

So if this goes to trial (which I’m going to doubt since they want to pin this on whomever looks like the leader)

They have the leader. It’s Smith. He confessed and pled guilty to his crimes.

then we can see how solid or flimsy the case is.

The ringleader pled out and is poised to testify against his friends. Yeah, we’ll see how flimsy the case is.

I wouldn’t be surprised if plea deals are doled out, similar to what happened with the RNC bombing plot.

Smith already secured the best deal. Phara will get more time. Lesser defendants will probably get what Smith gets. I predict Smith gets two years and $250,000 fine. Phara will get handed three and the others will get a year. Hard to tell about their fines. Will depend on the assets and property forfeited already.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:9 @ "Jay": READ THE 2ND LINK, don't remain willfully ignorant.

You’re wasting your time. All the members on this site are in complete denial about what is happening to their freetard internet.

They seriously thought everything would stay the same; that people would always bust their ass to entertain them for free forever.

They’re mentally ill. All of them.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:11 *Tsk tsk tsk*

He jumps from an ad hom attack to a comparison on drug charges with nothing to back it up.

Nothing to back it up?

Jay, you dismiss Smith’s own confession and the grand jury’s indictment to question the dollar amounts of the Ninjavideo criminal enterprise…. with nothing to back it up.

Yu suggest that maybe the government added money the kid made working at Starbucks or any legitimate job e may have had….. with nothing to back it up.

You grasp at every straw in the hope of casting FUD over the governments case against a confessed criminal in a slam dunk case… with nothing to back it up.

And it’s apparent to everyone that the only

Jay (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:12 *Tsk tsk tsk*

“Jay, you dismiss Smith’s own confession and the grand jury’s indictment to question the dollar amounts of the Ninjavideo criminal enterprise…. with nothing to back it up. “

I did. It’s all above.

“Yu suggest that maybe the government added money the kid made working at Starbucks or any legitimate job e may have had….. with nothing to back it up.”

I said it’s a possibility. The $500K number is kind of difficult to accept when it wasn’t just 5 people, this isn’t a criminal empire, and the Feds have a habit of “confusing” numbers in order to make their case.

“You grasp at every straw in the hope of casting FUD over the governments case against a confessed criminal in a slam dunk case… with nothing to back it up”

It’s not a slam dunk case, but you keep thinking that. I just said the math doesn’t add up to the 18 payments equating to $500K. That’s not that hard to figure out. But then when your opponent only wants to shift sights to irrelevant BS, hey, that’s on them.

BTW, the war on drugs has failed and has significant consequences beyond criminalizing people. But I guess all of that is ignored in order to ruin people’s lives for civil cases the copyright holders should run instead of this criminal offense, which is far cheaper for the MPAA and RIAA.

DCX2 says:

Re: Re:

Those who orchestrated the financial crisis made millions of dollars from their criminal enterprise. They will never see the inside of a prison cell. Their ill-gotten gains will never be returned to those they stole from.

It doesn’t make what Ninjavideo did right. But the juxtaposition of punishments for people who received half a million in ad money for peddling copyrighted videos vs. the people who stole millions and brought the world to the brink of financial destruction…it should make any reasonable person’s stomach turn.

Anonymous Coward says:

It’s not a slam dunk case, but you keep thinking that.

Yes it is. The ringleader confessed. He’s going to testify against his accomplices. They are going to plea out as well. If they had a case, they’d be in court. Jesus Christ, even Masnick isn’t tossing around these bizarre excuses and has himself commented on the strength of the government’s case…. and he’s the Lord High Apologist.

BTW, the war on drugs has failed and has significant consequences beyond criminalizing people. But I guess all of that is ignored in order to ruin people’s lives for civil cases the copyright holders should run instead of this criminal offense, which is far cheaper for the MPAA and RIAA.

Jay, despite what you believe these guys made $500,000 from content that didn’t belong to them. That is a crime is this country. They weren’t “sharing” they weren’t part of a free speech crusade. They were in it for the money… a half million of it. They got, they’re getting fined and then going to jail. Tough shit. This wasn’t P2P file swapping or a kid downloading a movie. This was an on-going criminal enterprise.

Jay (profile) says:

Re: Re:

“The ringleader confessed.”

Newsflash. Matt isn’t the “ringleader” in the community. Your naivete is showing.

” If they had a case, they’d be in court.”

If the government had given steps as to how to bring a case against this smaller community, maybe they would. I noticed you ignored everything here where I start with “They had their site taken down.” You might wanna read that again.

“Jay, despite what you believe these guys made $500,000 from content that didn’t belong to them.”

So far, they’re charged with releasing Avatar ($2 billion in revenue), 2012 ($770 Million in revenue worldwide), Iron Man 2 ($624 Million in revenue), and the A-Team ($177 million in revenue).

So far, the early release didn’t seem to hurt the movies in making money. Further, until I see the amounts of donations (which are people giving money freely to Ninja btw) I’m still believing that was a service they provided. Same as Hulu or TVShack. I guess it’s telling that you believe Matthew deserves jail time for this. So I don’t even have to ask how you feel on Richard (TVShack’s admin) being extradited to the US for copyright infringement when what he did (linking to material) was legal in the UK. I guess the Bryan McCarthy arrest must fill you with glee as well.

” They were in it for the money… a half million of it.”

You don’t know their motivations, except to paint them in a bad light. Pretty telling man.

” This was an on-going criminal enterprise.”

… Wow. And yet you claim I need medication… I guess now, you’ll say the US extradition against Richard O’ Dwyer is justified so long as other countries respect copyright. Was he a criminal as well as a student? Such evil masterminds are taking over the world!

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:

“The ringleader confessed.”

Newsflash. Matt isn’t the “ringleader” in the community. Your naivete is showing.

Hmmmm. Most media outlets name him as founder, his name is on most if not all of the ad contracts. I’d say ringleader is the right word. Feel free to disagree since this is an infringing case.

” If they had a case, they’d be in court.”

If the government had given steps as to how to bring a case against this smaller community, maybe they would. I noticed you ignored everything here where I start with “They had their site taken down.” You might wanna read that again.

You’re rambling again

“Jay, despite what you believe these guys made $500,000 from content that didn’t belong to them.”

So far, they’re charged with releasing Avatar ($2 billion in revenue), 2012 ($770 Million in revenue worldwide), Iron Man 2 ($624 Million in revenue), and the A-Team ($177 million in revenue).

Yes. And???

So far, the early release didn’t seem to hurt the movies in making money.

So maybe I should go steal something from Walmart and then argue to the judge that I didn’t seem to hurt Walmart’s earnings. Brilliant!! Why didn’t I think of that?

Further, until I see the amounts of donations (which are people giving money freely to Ninja btw)

They received donations for the purpose of monetizing their continuing criminal enterprise.

I’m still believing that was a service they provided. Same as Hulu or TVShack.

Right jay, same as Hulu or TVShack EXCEPT Ninjavideo didn’t pay for content. Other than that, you’re right.

I guess it’s telling that you believe Matthew deserves jail time for this.

Very insightful. I suggest he pirate a few seasons of “Oz” to learn more about his upcoming experience.

So I don’t even have to ask how you feel on Richard (TVShack’s admin) being extradited to the US for copyright infringement when what he did (linking to material) was legal in the UK.

Online gambling is legal in other countries too. What happens when those companies provide services to US customers. Oops. And yes, I look forward to Richard’s extended visit in the US.

I guess the Bryan McCarth

Jay says:

Re: Re: Re: Re:

Can you do me one favor? If you’re going to write a lot, please finish your thoughts? It’d help a lot in keeping this moving.

“Most media outlets name him as founder, his name is on most if not all of the ad contracts. I’d say ringleader is the right word. Feel free to disagree since this is an infringing case.”

This isn’t that hard to figure out. I’m sure if you googled NV or listened to any of the videos on Torrentfreak, you’ll quickly figure out who the “ringleader” is. But even then, it’s a misnomer since each played a different part in the site. For the most part, it seems they all had something they did on the site, and people filled the spots that they felt most comfortable in. And even then, there’s others that probably filled roles. You can’t run a site with just 5 people, with one being all the way in Greece.

“You’re rambling again”

Now who’s playing ignorant with facts?

Guess it’s time for a timeline of events as the government did them. Bear in mind, I’m answering your question here:
“And you argue stupid shit that has everything to do with the nature of the crime and nothing to do with the facts and law.”

So let’s deal in facts as reported.

Jun 29, 2010 – Nine sites are taken down. From Disney HQ. In one of the stories, “Officials also seized assets from 15 bank, investment and advertising accounts, and executed residential search warrants in North Carolina, New Jersey, New York and Washington.” That links up to all four suspects here.

Complaint comes in a full six months after the site is taken down with no way to complain to a judge about this. The people have to wait a full year and a half for an indictment on five videos that have gone on to make more than $500K in revenue but somehow, because it’s released early on THIS website, they’re interfering with the profits of Hollywood. And this exact process, the jailing of people for running a website with links on it, a conspiratorial look at people who come together to build something based on donations, not “illicit” or “ill gotten” goods, but people freely exchanging money for a service along with cheap ads, THIS is the future envisioned by Hollywood and Protect IP?

December 30th, 2010 – Forfeiture of 7 out of 9 sites. Ninjathis and Ninjavideo are oddly absent…

(Side note: Law enforcement abuses seizures regularly)

May 24, 2011 – Justice Department stalling on domain seizures. Plenty of debate on this in the months of Jan-May, but I’m keeping this a shorter reply.

February 17th, 2011 – FOIA request into domain seizures is put forth… Still waiting on a response today.

June 9th, 2011 – ICE says domain seizures a success. (They’re wrong btw)

Jun 13th, 2011 – Rojadirecta sues the US government, forcing the government to make up a story about their “successful” mission.

July 20th, 2011 – US government shows its poker face for lawful seizure.

August 8th, 2011 Rojadirecta calls USG’s bluff.

Now with this, we get to NV…

Since we’ve seen that through Roja’s case the aiding and abetting doesn’t work, the government upped the ante for these people.

September 9 2011, the five with NV indicted.

So, I’ve detailed through the links on the date, that the government hasn’t given them any way to contest the domain seizures. The government has tried to stall for time while building a case or basically ignore the people wanting to challenge the seizures. I have yet to go into Richard O’Dwyer or Bryan McCarthy because that’s basically more of the same issue. There’s good writeups on how the seizures aren’t legal. I like Karl’s the most, for this part here:

Under 17 U.S.C. 512’s “safe harbors” provisions, if the sites followed the rules laid out therein, they are not liable for infringement at all, and the only relief available is laid out in 512(j). Nothing in 17 U.S.C. 506 takes those safe harbors away. Even if you wrongly believe it did, obeying the law would (once again) make you an “innocent infringer” at most, thus ineligible for criminal infringement under 506. Yet there was not even an attempt to show that the sites did not follow those rules. And apparently many did.

So, my hypothesis still stands. Based on everything that I’ve shown, there is a possibility that the government lumped Ninjathis with Ninjavideo to bring out a higher amount. Based on the 15 bank, investment, and residential seizures, it seems that the government took everything they had to make sure they couldn’t fight back. From all looks of it, this actually came out of nowhere. Nothing in regards to an indication that the five were to be indicted.

No clear way to challenge the proceedings. No judicial hearing. No magistrate to complain to. No, it’s right to indictment after a year and a half of silence.

I hope that answered your question. If not, I got more.

“Yes. And???”

From all looks of it, while you split up my sentence, you missed the fact that all of the movies made a lot more than their budget even though they were released early on one site. Somehow, it’s hard to miss the fact that the movie is still available on Pirate Bay, and so many other sites, yet still makes a lot of money… Hmmm…

“So maybe I should go steal something from—“
Non-sequitar.

“They received donations for the purpose of monetizing their continuing criminal enterprise. “

Links aren’t criminal yet, bucko. And the government has yet to prove that. And last I checked, donations were given freely. As in, Hollywood has no claims to that money. The entitlement of those in industry is staggering…

“Online gambling is legal in other countries too. What happens when those companies provide services to US customers. Oops. And yes, I look forward to Richard’s extended visit in the US.”

We’ll see Nov 3rd won’t we? Also, your online gambling jibe? Needs work. We both agree it’s legal in the US and outside, just some cops seize assets to fund their police force. Fancy that, the cops using seized assets to make their paychecks bigger.

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