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Court Says It's Okay To Secretly Record Conversation If Done For Legitimate Reasons

Privacy

from the i-may-or-may-not-be-recording-this dept

Thu, Aug 19th 2010 05:44pm -

While there have been a lot of concerns lately about efforts to misuse “wiretapping” laws that forbid any recordings of people without their knowledge, it appears at least a few courts are recognizing how silly that is. Yet another court has now said that secretly recording a conversation — in this case with an iPhone — is okay, assuming there was no crime committed with the recording, and the recording was for a legitimate purpose. As the court noted:

“The defendant must have the intent to use the illicit recording to commit a tort of crime beyond the act of recording itself.”

That makes sense. The act of recording alone, shouldn’t be a criminal act, as it really depends on what is being done with the recording. And, in an age where not only is recording everything easier, but for some becoming standard, requiring permission to record all audio seems like an outdated concept.

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Comments on “Court Says It's Okay To Secretly Record Conversation If Done For Legitimate Reasons”

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220 Comments
Anonymous Coward says:

I think it’s always “OK” to record conversations without permission or delivering prior knowledge but the anti – recording laws are meant so that it can’t be used in court if it’s done “illegally” without permission or delivering prior knowledge, not that they can separately punish you for doing so. Just that, as evidence it will get thrown out, kinda like conducting an unwarranted search or seizure (though perhaps in that case one might be able to sue the cops for damages? Or is that a criminal case where the feds must prosecute?), it can’t be used against you in court.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: extort the boss?

You know, if the feds were really serious about going after people who break the law they would do more to catch employers that try to get away with paying overtime by either fudging with their employees hours (ie: moving the hours around such as moving them over to the next week and distributing them so that no overtime is payed) or by having their employees work and either paying them under the table or not paying them overtime at all. Many employers do this and yet they never seem to get caught. Part of the problem is that employees never report it but everyone knows that’s generally not a good long term solution if you want to keep your job and not have your job made miserable.

Anonymous Coward says:

Just for inquiry purposes

What if it’s a patient talking to a doctor about personal patient – doctor issues, especially a psychologist (and the patient doesn’t want the conversation to be recorded). Sure the doctor may record the conversation and not intend to spread it on the Internet or give it to anyone or use it for nefarious or malicious purposes, but what if those recordings accidentally got into the wrong hands. Or what if someone was telling someone else something personal, like social security number or CC number or whatever, for a business transaction with a corporation, and the corporation recording the information keeps it in a database. Now what if some nefarious or malicious employee got a hold of that info.

There is always the possibility of recording something personal (though not illegal) and having that information accidentally get into the wrong hands. Not that I disagree with MM, but I think these are some things to think about.

Now, granted, if I’m calling a corporation and they’re explaining a contract or agreement to me or something of that nature, I should be able to record them and present it to a judge later on and it should be counted as evidence. Things that are business related generally should be recordable, but there can be a blurry line between business and personal info (ie: SS number, CC numbers, etc… are personal yet can be involved in business transactions. Psychologists and doctors are professionals yet they deal with personal issues). To what extent does a business have a duty to protect personal info if they record it? Can they be trusted to properly protect it? Should they be liable if it leaks on the net or gets misused by some disgruntled employee for nefarious purposes?

See, if I’m talking to a corporation I’m most likely the one giving away personal information, not the corporation or the corporate representative. So if I record the conversation it is my duty to protect my own private information if it gets on the recording and I have an interest in protecting it. But what about the corporation? Can I trust them to protect my information as much as I can trust myself?

Then again, these days, many corporate employees have access to all sorts of private customer information (ie: CC and SS numbers). It’s something we practically take for granted.

TtfnJohn (profile) says:

Re: Re:

There are ethical reasons why a doctor or psychologist would not record and store an interview with a patient just to reveal it later. Among them having had doctor/patient confidentiality, which we all take for granted, blown out of the water.

Then I wouldn’t tell my shrink any more about my kinky sexual fantasies about a teddy bear, dawn detergent and….

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re:

I think those issues can be dealt by the people without the need of government intervention.

What services those corporations do for the people?
Can people create a corporation(LLC) and do transactions through those entities?

ps: LLC’s exist for exactly this purpose to serve as a proxy, to and individual it may be expensive but to a neighborhood that cost falls dramatically.

In case of health care people could finance their own hospitals that would answer directly to the community and have strong incentives to not compromise the information of their patients.

in the case of schools people could just stop sending their children to that school and either home school them or finance a new one where they can have more control over what is done in the school or another solution.

People can do better, I think people forgot what they can do and need to be reminded that they can affect change if they do wish to do so, they are just not trying hard enough to find solutions. The government is getting bigger and it seems incapable of dealing with the needs of the people, they should not be involved in little things but on some key parts like guaranteeing physical security and a judicial system that is the last resort for problem solving.

Hippy Hop (user link) says:

It is not ok to record conversations without the permission of the other party whether it is for legitimate reason or not. If it is for legitimate reason, why would you record it without permission? The fact that you did not inform the other person of your recording, there is an intension of a crime and committed a violation of the right of the other person to be informed.

Rekrul says:

Re: Re:

It is not ok to record conversations without the permission of the other party whether it is for legitimate reason or not. If it is for legitimate reason, why would you record it without permission?

Consider this; You wake up one morning to find that someone has slashed your tires and basically trashed your car. You know exactly who it was because you’ve been having problems with them for some time. However there is no proof they did it, and their buddies (who were probably in on it) give them an alibi. The police tell you that there’s nothing they can do without some kind of evidence.

You confront the guy alone and he admits doing it right to your face, telling you that he’s going to keep on tormenting you and there’s not a thing you can do about it because you have no proof and his buddies will always lie for him.

How exactly would you convince him to allow you to record his confession?

Rekrul says:

Re: Re: Re: Re:

So, it should be OK to record anybody you want, and we should all have to be willing to live with it, because of this very hypothetical situation?

Because you may be the victim of a neighborhood bully, I’m supposed to entirely give up my privacy?

No, recording someone for nefarious purposes, like blackmailing them, or publicly embarrassing them should be illegal, but recording someone for the purpose of exposing a crime or defending yourself against untrue allegations should be allowed.

The fact is that in today’s world, there’s absolutely no way to prevent someone from recording your conversation without your knowledge. Unless you search everyone you talk to, you can’t be sure that they aren’t using their phone or some other recording device to record every word you say. You only find out that this has happened when they use the recording for something. At THAT point, their actions should be legally judged based on their reasons for making the recording, the setting it was made in (two people in a room have more expectation of privacy than someone at a public meeting) and the contents of the recording.

In my case, in a complicated situation, my mother had a friend hang onto some money and jewelry for her. After my mother died, I found out that the “friend” had used the money for herself, for “an emergency”. Nothing was written down, so I have no proof. When I can actually get in touch with her, she freely admits that she owes me money, but since my state requires two-party consent, I’d be breaking the law to record her making this admission. There’s no way she’d ever sign anything or admit it in front of witnesses, because she has no intention of ever paying me or returning the jewelry. So she gets away with stealing what should rightfully be my mine because I can’t record her confession unless she consents.

Yeah, that’s fair…

Brock says:

Re: Re: Re:2 Naive

I’ve grown tired of the argument that if you’ve got nothing to hide you shouldn’t have a problem. It’s incredibly short sighted and ignores the potential ramifications. It also assumes that something nefarious or illegal is being committed. You may be too naive to grasp the concepts at play here, and I’m sorry if that sounds arrogant You can record the fuck out of your employees. But when you start audio recording your customers (Which is an order of magnitude above video recording) you’ve got a high bar you need to reach to justify that. Even if it’s in a public place, like a bar where technically you do not have an expectation of privacy. Depending on the State, it’s a Gray area whether it’s legal. But it’s definitely not ethical If all parties are not informed.

Imagine if you will,that you’re meeting with a customer at a restaurant to discuss contractual issues that are confidential. You both signed NDA agreements with one another, And the restaurant is eavesdropping in on your conversation. I’ll leave you with that, let it sink in.

Anonymous Coward says:

It is useful to keep in mind that this action was asserted in Federal District Court and based upon a federal statute. Apparently, the federal law relied upon by the plaintiff (who was representing himself) requires several prima facie elements, and both the district court and the appellate court determined that one or more of the required elements was not present. Hence the dismissal. However, as the appellate court noted, the district court elected not to assert jurisdiction over state claims, the state in this case being Connecticut. Presumably, the plaintiff is free to pursue his state claims in state court.

The recording of conversations varies from state to state. Most require the consent of only one participant to a conversation, but about 12 or so (including California) requires the consent of all participants (there are some exceptions, of course).

Is surreptitious recording a good idea? Personally, I do not think it is. This site strongly advocates privacy rights, and I find the view expressed here somewhat inconsistent with such advocacy. Do persons downloading material from the internet truly have a greater privacy interest than persons engaged in a private conversation? Reasonable minds can differ.

nasch (profile) says:

Re: Re:

Keep in mind we’re not (I think) talking about a third party recording a conversation between two other people. So the internet analogy would be if you download something from intercorp.com, and Intercorp keeps a record of what you downloaded and when. Which AFAIK is basically standard practice, and certainly not a violation of your privacy.

Hugh Mann (profile) says:

I sure don't want to be recorded...

What legitimate reason is there to just make a practice of recording conversations? I refuse to stay on the line if someone calls me and says, “this call may be recorded for quality control purposes”. I’m also annoyed that you have to essentially consent to being recorded to have any chance of talking to your bank or credit card company.

I don’t need a reason to say I don’t want to be recorded. Luckily, California (where I live) has a statute that specifically prohibits recording telephone calls unless both parties consent. I don’t think a person should have the right to walk up to me and start snapping photos, either. I have the right to privacy, and that includes from people who want to preserve my utterances and image for posterity.

I might consider it if there were a requirement that a complete copy of any such recording has to be offered and provided to the other person within ten business days.

I do have less concern, though, about recording public officials acting in their official capacity. If a cop pulls you over, I think you should have the right to record the whole incidient. But you should not be able to record that same cop if you call him at home when he’s off-duty.

HM

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: I sure don't want to be recorded...

I don’t think people will have a choice in the future and that is the whole point, everybody today has a video camera or recording device of some kind.

The act of recording is ubiquitous today and will be even more in the future, and if you don’t want to end up with laws that throws people in jail for filming their sons and daughters birthdays you need to allow it and look at the cases where it makes sense to not allow such things.

Privacy is good and I’m a strong advocate for it, but I also recognize some realities and one of them is that in public or with others there will not be such privacy no more.

Besides there are very compelling reasons to allow recording of everything you see and hear, it allows proof for things difficult to prove in the past but it also can embarrass people.

People need to make a choice right now. Do people want the ability to get proof for corruption, violence and bad behavior and deal with the problem of privacy or give up that ability to protect part of our lifes that don’t have real impact on society?

Yes bad things can happen like the photos taken by school officials, that were not really criminals but control freaks that should be slapped for what they did, but not by the government, if you give that power to the government they will censor everything including videos of police brutality, political corruption that directly affects them.

So we really need to think hard on this one is not that simple.

Hugh Mann (profile) says:

Re: Re: I sure don't want to be recorded...

I really don’t see how privacy laws could be twisted to prevent videotaping your kid’s birthday party.

And I sure don’t see how allowing secret recording of millions of private citizens going about their everyday buseinss is helpful in uncovering some random instnace of “corrupton”.

This is very weird, because the participants in this blog tend to be against traffic light cameras and surveillance cameras in public places. But, when it’s using your own iPhone, it should be OK? Because you might just happen someday to catch a public official being corrupt?

I maintain that secret recording of one private citizen of another private citizen is a breach of privacy, and should not be permitted.

HM

Hugh Mann (profile) says:

Re: Re: I sure don't want to be recorded...

Just to be clear, I see a difference between someone taking pictures that I just happen to be in – because I’m in a public place – and someone intentionally pointing their camera at me for the purpose of taking a picture of ME, rather than the scenery.

So, obviously, nobody should be prevented from taking pictures of Niagara Falls merely because I am viewing it and don’t want to be in the picture (though it is polite to give people a chance to get out of the way, and I would usually take advantage of such an opportunity). However, that’s different than someone walking up to me to engage me in direct conversation and videotaping the encounter – even in a public place.

I understand the law generally does not take such a granular approach. However, I think it should. I think there is a reasonable right to privacy even in a public place. You should have the right to be left alone. And, while certainly anybody who happens to be at Niagara Falls on the day you go there can see you and report to others you were there, that’s quite different from having your visit videotaped and potentially broadcast to the world.

HM

The Sandman (profile) says:

Re: I sure don't want to be recorded...

I’m with you Hugh. How fair is it when one says to the bank or credit card company, “Before we continue, I am recording this conversation for my own quality and assurance of doing good with this account…” – only to have the other person say, “I’m sorry, but I can’t stay on the line if you are.”

Whereas, if I deny the recording, they embark on putting it as if I refuse to talk with them and am not willing to work it out.

I think all persons should have the same right – namely this one. If a “bank” (i.e) is going to use a conversation in court in which I was recorded, or whatever pieces of the conversation they use and take out of context and present, how unfair is it that I cannot have justification of the conversation and refute those unjust arguments that may be put forth, with my own recorded conversation.

In essence, we Americans are subdued by corporations and their large legal budgets and the BS politicians put in place in order to continue to subdue us.

It’s all gotta change and soon.

Happy New Year!

Anonymous Coward says:

One Party

I was under the impression that Federal law only required one party’s consent. According to the article, the person who did the recording was a party to the conservation, so how was there a Federal offense in the first place?

However, Mike, if you’re saying that you think outside parties should be allowed to secretly record other peoples conservations, how about you let me come wire up your house with some listening devices? Even then, at least you’ll know they’re there.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: One Party

What I believe he(Mike) meant was that the act of recording anything should be allowed in general and we need to start focusing on instances we as a people find it offensive or inappropriate, do you have a problem with that? why?

Would you find it wrong to record crooked officials, police and citizens and expose them?

Would you want non criminals to be thrown in jail because of stupidity like the schools officials?

Would you like to find yourself in jail for filming something in a park or have crippling financial punishment for that?

Would you like to have your son or daughter dragged to ta court of law because a stupid youtube video that showed somebody on the background?

Would you like to be ejected from a restaurant because you are filming your girlfriend or your children?

Would you not like to film the police abusing your neighbor?

It is troubling to think those things should not be allowed and could end up like that if people don’t start paying attention to it.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: One Party

What I believe he(Mike) meant was that the act of recording anything should be allowed in general and we need to start focusing on instances we as a people find it offensive or inappropriate, do you have a problem with that? why?

The comment was whether “outside parties should be allowed to secretly record other peoples conservations.” You don’t have a problem with that? How about letting me wire up your house then? Put up or shut up, as they say.

Would you find it wrong … blah blah blah…

Funny how none of those examples involve outside parties secretly recording other peoples conservations.

Paul Alan Levy (profile) says:

It is the state laws that are more significant here

Anonymous coward #12 made the point but it is a bit buried — there are a number of states in which it is not legal to make a recording without the knowledge of both parties — that is, surreptitious recording by one party to a conversation is forbidden. Some states make that a crime; some states allow a private suit for damages and attorney fees. So those tempted to make surreptitious recordings should be careful.

I too see both sides of this one. One the one hand, I get the privacy concern. But from my days as a rank-and-file labor lawyer, the first 20-odd years of my legal career, I recall the general suspicion that when a worker claims the boss said X, many judges are predisposed to believe the boss and not the worker, so surreptitious recordings (in states where they were not forbidden) were a key component of building a case of retaliation.

Rekrul says:

Re: It is the state laws that are more significant here

Anonymous coward #12 made the point but it is a bit buried — there are a number of states in which it is not legal to make a recording without the knowledge of both parties — that is, surreptitious recording by one party to a conversation is forbidden. Some states make that a crime; some states allow a private suit for damages and attorney fees. So those tempted to make surreptitious recordings should be careful.

Yes, when trying to get evidence of a crime, always inform the other person that they’re about to incriminate themselves on tape before recording their confession…

romeosidvicious (profile) says:

While the case mentioned is federal it has also been mentioned that there widely varying laws throughout the states governing recording. For instance in Texas only one party has to know the conversation is being recorded and it can even be recorded by a third party that has been given permission:

http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/PE/htm/PE.16.htm
Summary of relevant portions of the Penal Code linked above:

So long as a wire, oral, or electronic communication—including the radio portion of any cordless telephone call—is not recorded for a criminal or tortious purpose, anyone who is a party to the communication, or who has the consent of a party, can lawfully record the communication and disclose its contents. Texas Penal Code § 16.02.

The other interesting portions of the Texas laws governing this cover non-electronic communication which would cover spoken conversation:

Under the statute, consent is not required for the taping of a non-electronic communication uttered by a person who does not have a reasonable expectation of privacy in that communication. See definition of “oral communication,” Texas Code Crim. Pro. Art. 18.20.

A great resource for this is: http://www.by rcfp.org/taping/ which covers all states in an easy state by state format.

My family had some issues with harassment when I was growing up so I overheard my father talking about the laws governing recording phone calls and for some reason it stuck with me. I never had a tape deck and phone attachment around like we did when I was growing up and those problems were happening but now that I can record calls on my phone with a single press on the screen I have made use it when dealing with the occasional customer service rep that went to far so I could easily file my complaint with evidence.

Anonymous Coward says:

One of the great things about this site is that it usually starts a dialogue. However, this post seems more conclusory . You state “The act of recording shouldn’t be a criminal act” but you don’t say why. It seems like an assumption that having everything on record is not a bad thing. There are many studies showing that having everything recorded changes the way people interact, often for the worse. Are these good studies? Who knows. But to assume that the act of recording itself is not a bad thing seems a little lazy.

Kris says:

Tire tapping

I am a little taken back by you “as a matter of fact” comment concerning …….”wiretapping” laws that forbid any recordings of people without their knowledge, it appears at least a few courts are recognizing how silly that is. It is on face value patently wrong to sneak around recording conversations for whatever reason absent a warrant. This isn’t worth the conversation, doesn’t even pass the smell taste.

Ashley says:

What rights does a University have?

Since I was having issues with one of my professors, I went to my college to talk to someone about it. The man that I spoke with tape recorded our conversation and even worse, played it for my professor just days prior to when grades were given.The most outrageous part was that before I had sat down in his office, I stated that I did not want to mention any names due to the fact that I did not want my professor to find out I had been there to talk about her, especially before grades were given. Therefore, not only did he not receive any consent from me to record our conversation, but also I stated that I wanted this conversation confidential.Then, at my Final Evaluation (where I learn what grade I received), I found that my professor gave me a failing grade while the person I was basically shadowing and with everyday passed me with flying colors.I tried appealing the grade with the University, but I was never given a chance to speak explain my side–the person only spoke with my professor and determined from what she said, that my grade would not be appealed. What do I do?

Ashley says:

What rights does a University have?

Since I was having issues with one of my professors, I went to my college to talk to someone about it. The man that I spoke with tape recorded our conversation and even worse, played it for my professor just days prior to when grades were given.The most outrageous part was that before I had sat down in his office, I stated that I did not want to mention any names due to the fact that I did not want my professor to find out I had been there to talk about her, especially before grades were given. Therefore, not only did he not receive any consent from me to record our conversation, but also I stated that I wanted this conversation confidential.Then, at my Final Evaluation (where I learn what grade I received), I found that my professor gave me a failing grade while the person I was basically shadowing and with everyday passed me with flying colors.I tried appealing the grade with the University, but I was never given a chance to speak explain my side–the person only spoke with my professor and determined from what she said, that my grade would not be appealed. What do I do?

nasch (profile) says:

What rights does a University have?

Therefore, not only did he not receive any consent from me to record our conversation, but also I stated that I wanted this conversation confidential.

Some states do not require the consent of both parties to record a conversation. That doesn’t make what he did ethical, but it may have been legal.

What do I do?

This is really not the place to turn for help. Perhaps your university has an ombudsman who can help. Otherwise ask family or a lawyer for advice.

Asirainis (profile) says:

What about when a lead supervisor (step under sales manager) ...

I have a lead supervisor that has said some pretty nasty stuff to me recently. After her first week there, when my hours got cut in my department to slow nights, 6 hours each night for 3 nights, she tried to confront me about not selling as much as I ‘could.’ She refused to listen to my account of each night. She accused me of trying to sabotage her. Her words, ‘Are you trying to sabotage me because I got the position you wanted?’ When I told her flat out that I never wanted her position, she seemed to not care. The issue, I thought was dropped. But now, about 2 weeks later, she told me to ’empty my pockets.’ Her words. She wanted to see if I had these stupid laminated cards on me that she gave me. But her words never indicated it, she just said, ’empty your pockets.’ Working in a sales environment such as walmart, lowes, etc without saying my place of employment, if loss prevention had heard her say that, they would have looked at me like I must have stolen something. What can I do to protect myself because it’s a pure she said/she said in my case. The environment is toxic, I’ve tried to ask for a transfer that my store manager doesn’t want to give because I’m a top seller there. Can I use a voice recorder to protect myself even if she doesn’t know I have it with me?

FloridaGentleman says:

Abolish AntiRecording Laws

State Of Florida
My wife is very mentally unstable and threatens, intimidates, and otherwise makes my family’s life miserable at times. She is very manipulative and very good at it. I have been recording her both audibly and with video for many years. Some incidents of her captured on media are physical violence, but most of it is emotional/mental abuse. She threatens divorce whenever she doesn’t get her way and that she’ll take half of “our” assets. (I work, she hardly has, and we have some substantial assets my family left). The peace of mind that I have is all of the recordings, because she makes me out to be the bad guy. She is always claiming to be “the victim”.

Anyway, if I did not have these recordings I don’t know where I would be psychologically. It is that bad. I have not released any of the recordings to officials yet. I am not sure that I ever will, but I am just glad that I have them.

I don’t understand why people are so against recording. Yes I understand that the recordings could get into the wrong hands but that is no reason do disallow recording.

I am not much of a gossiper or manipulator and so whatever comes out of my mouth is basically public record as far as I am concerned. If someone records me so what – the bank, my employer, my wife. Why don’t other people see it this way?

Noah Moore (profile) says:

Recordin in MY home.

I am interviewing contractors regarding improvements to my home. Since some do not give a detailed proposal in writing, I have been covertly recording our conversations in or about my home for the purpose of archiving our agreements and expectations. May I legally do this and even use it in Court if later necessary? Is my personal belief correct that the contractor does not have any right of expectation of privacy in MY home?

concerned parent says:

Recording biological parent visit

My neighbors have a young girl whom they have sole custody of… We are interested in recording the allowed visits with her biological mother – she’s a pathological liar, drug addict and felon.

Where does the law stand on putting a hidden camera or voice recorder on the child (ie: pin or button or watch?) whilst visiting with this woman?

Amicus Curia (user link) says:

audio recording liars

Because, simply put, corruption exists not only in government officials, but in the public. People are entirely too fond of lying, bearing false witness, and dissembling. This has the all too real potential to seriously harm an innocent party. Audio recording provides a measure of safety/prevention of personal injury or worse. If I can see, hear, smell, taste, or feel it (especially in a public venue), I can document it. Video, photos, and audio recordings are simply a means of documenting an occurrence.
-amicuscuria.com/wordpress-

Amicus Curia (user link) says:

out of state

The rule, in law, is that the laws of the state at either end of the phone connection can be enforced. Thus, if it’s a crime to record the phone conversation in Washington, but not in New York, the perpetrator can be prosecuted in Washington under its laws, even though he/she never left the State of New York except by phone.
-amicuscuria.com/wordpress-

Amicus Curia (user link) says:

I sure don't want to be recorded...

Yeah, OK. I’d agree if the conversation was behind closed door or over a phone where you have an expectation of privacy. But, there is no expectation of privacy in public venues. You can be photographed, video taped, or audio recorded there. It’s common sense that conversations which can be overheard by strangers in a public setting aren’t ‘private’. That’s why we (most of us) don’t copulate on the lawn of the nearby public park. Most of us pick our nose in private too. So if you pick your nose in public, or hold a conversation in public, you would have to be pretty dense to have an expectation of privacy.
-amicuscuria.com/wordpress-

Amicus Curia (user link) says:

ianal

No, that’s not necessary. You can live in a ‘2’-party state and get away with recording the call if the other party is recording it or KNOWS it’s being recorded on their end. Why? Because it’s no longer a ‘private’ conversation! They KNOW they are being recorded/monitored, thus they have no expectation of privacy, in law. Ergo, you don’t have to announced you are recording a conversation you’re participating in, whether in a single or ‘2’-party state where the other party/parties have no expectation of privacy. e.g. If you’re on speaker phone and the other party can hear a lot of noise/conversations in the background, and realizes their conversation can be heard by a bunch of strangers in the room within earshot of the speaker phone, they have no expectation of privacy anymore than someone conducting a loud conversation in a public park has one. Here, in my State (Western Washington), all our County Transit buses have video AND audio recording on them. They don’t alert passengers to this fact, nor to the seek their permission, nor would the driver turn off the recordings (if he could) due to a passenger’s objections. There is no law in Washington State (a ‘2’-party consent state) carving out an exception for public transit buses. There’s no law here carving out an exception for police dashboard camera (many of which have audio) either. It’s pretty clear we’re exposed to video and audio recording without our permission everywhere we go in public, and even ‘private’ venues such as banks, department stores, parks, court/jail house courtyards, etc. Privacy is dead. Get over it.
-amicuscuria.com/wordpress-

Amicus Curia (user link) says:

ianal

No, that’s not necessary. You can live in a ‘2’-party state and get away with recording the call if the other party is recording it or KNOWS it’s being recorded on their end. Why? Because it’s no longer a ‘private’ conversation! They KNOW they are being recorded/monitored, thus they have no expectation of privacy, in law. Ergo, you don’t have to announced you are recording a conversation you’re participating in, whether in a single or ‘2’-party state where the other party/parties have no expectation of privacy. e.g. If you’re on speaker phone and the other party can hear a lot of noise/conversations in the background, and realizes their conversation can be heard by a bunch of strangers in the room within earshot of the speaker phone, they have no expectation of privacy anymore than someone conducting a loud conversation in a public park has one. Here, in my State (Western Washington), all our County Transit buses have video AND audio recording on them. They don’t alert passengers to this fact, nor to the seek their permission, nor would the driver turn off the recordings (if he could) due to a passenger’s objections. There is no law in Washington State (a ‘2’-party consent state) carving out an exception for public transit buses. There’s no law here carving out an exception for police dashboard camera (many of which have audio) either. It’s pretty clear we’re exposed to video and audio recording without our permission everywhere we go in public, and even ‘private’ venues such as banks, department stores, parks, court/jail house courtyards, etc. Privacy is dead. Get over it.
-amicuscuria.com/wordpress-

Amicus Curia (user link) says:

out of state

The rule, in law, is that the laws of the state at either end of the phone connection can be enforced. Thus, if it’s a crime to record the phone conversation in Washington, but not in New York, the perpetrator can be prosecuted in Washington under its laws, even though he/she never left the State of New York except by phone.
-amicuscuria.com/wordpress-

JSB (profile) says:

Recording

I read through many of the comments, but not all of them because I would be here all night. I live in Connecticut and my family and I have rented for the past two years (temporary move). When we moved in, the house was in disarray. Holes repaired on walls without being re-painted, bathroom vanity drawers broken and laying on the floor, house not clean, etc-etc… This was all from the homeowners, not previous tenants. Now we are moving out and I feel like she is going to stick it to us( she has $ 3,000 of ours including pet and security deposits) She is saying we need to repaint, wood floors have scratches, screens replaced, and on and on… I had to re-paint three of the four bedrooms when moving in because the walls were terrible. If we didn’t move here from 1500 miles away, we would’ve just walked out, but she knew our option were limited. So…. My question is, I’m trying to get her to do a walk through before we move out, can I record her??? We have been looking into state laws, but they seem to contradict themselves. Any advice???

vasuna says:

recording a car dealership that lied about the worth of a van because I did not think I would get another one and he was pissed there would be no money coming into his dealership.

I totaled my van. it was an extremely special type with
a lot of additional add on’s for handicapped. I told him i would not buying another van for disabled, so he low balled
me to the insurance company.

He also sells used handicapped vans and had one on his lot
same yr as mine with 30,000 more miles. I want to record the conversation of how much he was selling this car for
compared to what he told the insurance company.

As I would like to sue this person under ADA. However he is in southern calif and I know they have stringent laws
about secretly recording conversations.

John (profile) says:

recording others without consent

My girlfriend was wrongfully detained by Loss Prevention and accussed of thief. She think the LP had a tape recorder and tape her conversation. She on probation and she told the LP that she did not want to deal with police because of her probation. They release her, but can they record her secretly and play it to law enforcement?

phil74 (profile) says:

recording doctor's conversations

I am messily divorced. I secretly recorded my son’s doctor giving my son’s prognosis. Doctor admitted my son’s mom is neglectful, even though the doctor is friends with my ex-wife. When doctor found out she was recorded, she got mad and changed her story, to make ex look better. Now I am in court, disputing the doctor’s new story. I think it should be cut-and-dry that doctor got mad about recording and is lying to help my ex.
Can any lawyers give me advice/expectations?

phil74 says:

Also, I forgot to mention; the reason I am in court is because I am suing for custody due to negligence AND abuse issues on the part of my ex-wife. The doctor is not a party to the suit, nor was the suit caused by this recording. It just seemed like ammunition to bolster my allegations. The doctor is aware that my ex-wife and I are in a custody dispute, and she was aware of it at the time of our conversation.

Anonymous Coward says:

recording doctor's conversations

I was just asking if anyone out there has any particular experience with this kind of thing, to find some kind of precedent. My lawyer is doing everything I could have hoped for, but sometimes a lawyer or a client somewhere in the country might have gone through the exact same type of situation. I am trying to help out as much as I can, since this is the most important undertaking of my life. Any extra info would be appreciated.

DubhBairn says:

What about home security???

I am setting up security cameras around my property because of bad behavior of a neighbor.. I am also wanting to install a camera with audio capabilities because some of the stuff that comes out of this person’s mouth should have gotten them arrested.. I just want to justify if something happens again.. and to protect my home from theft.
Can I do this under TEXAS law?? Or do I need to put up a sign/sticker stating that audio / video recording is protecting my home??? would this fit under the TX consent law? and be used against someone should they try to do harm on our property??

Unknown questioner says:

recording a former boss.

Ok well i have been researching things in reguard to a case in pursuing for a lawsuit against my former job. All i wish to know is it legal for someone to call my previous job acting like a new employer getting a reference if they stat before hand that they are being recorded and ask if its ok? Ive seen attorneys which do it themselves but must pay around 100 dollars just for this. So is it legal for someone thats not an attorney to do it?

Russgus says:

Divulging information.

The necessity of a warrant or of providing private knowledge only applies to the government and law enforcement agencies. If you and I are having a conversation and I’m recording it just to record it and you state that you’re going to kill someone, I can submit that as evidence in court and it WILL be allowed.
Why? I’m not the government. I’m just some guy you were talking to who happened to like to record his conversations just for the helluvit. 🙂

Falcon (profile) says:

Monitoring behavior

I think that if there are chronic situations that warrant the monitoring/recording, then I think it should be allowed. If an environment has a chronic problem, such as harassing someone constantly or maybe stealing, then it would make sense to have the place under surveillance either at all times or randomly. There should be a sign informing people who frequent the area that it is under surveillance in random areas. I think that this is the best way to catch someone in the wrong, and have proof.

in pain says:

in colorado doctor and patient care recording

I’m hoping someone can help…. due to my health insurance I am forced to see a doctor that is not interested in giving me proper patient care. Before I was forced to go to him I had seen two doctors that said I had bulging disks in my back due to injury which were confirmed by x rays as well as MRI but the doctor that I have to see doesn’t want to acknowledge the results of tests because he didn’t order them nor wants to. He admits that there is definitely an injury but doesn’t want to treat / acknowledge the degree of injury so I can get the care I need and get back to work. is it illegal to audio record the conversation between myself and the doctor that is treating about the care plan/ treatment plan?

Concerned mother says:

Recording a chat that wasn't properly shut down

I was video chatting with my pre-teen. My pre-teen turned the video chat face down but did not shut it off, so audio was still on. I then heard a (one sided because it was a phone call) conversation take place, a phone call spewing “I’m going to…” threats, and then throwing of objects and cursing the person the adult was talking to after. I also heard my pre-teen and her friend laughing and talking for the most of the time, so the entire conversation was in front of them. The threats were against myself. Let’s say this conversation was recorded, would that be admissible in court in a one party consent state?

TMI Pro (profile) says:

in colorado doctor and patient care recording

I live in Colorado and received treatment from a doctor who is notorious for inadequate treatment and adding inaccurate information in patient records. In my experience, I found that more than one medical professional was willing to underestimate, inadequately treat or properly diagnose among various ethical/conduct violations.

One thing to consider is that physicians are required to follow certain predetermined guidelines set by insurance carriers. With healthcare the way it is, determining the medical necessity of certain procedures and treatments may keep many medical professionals feeling restricted and frustrated. Others are just plain unscrupulous and pretty much work for the insurance & pharmaceutical companies that offer large financial incentives to keep cost contained and prescriptions flowing. Doctors are human too.

For my own assurance, I do record. I use my own life experience to dictate what I do in certain situations. I think it is in my best interest to do so as ethically as I can. I personally am NOT going to battle these giants in any lawsuit, but my business attorney advised me that recordings without consent may be allowable in some instances. If the recorded evidence would be critical in proving the TYPE of wrongdoing that may be going on, it may be allowed. One of the first things an attorney might ask is if there is any proof, witness, recording, admissions, etc. One could be prosecuted based on the motivations of the recording, (i.e., to extort or violate privacy etc.) If it is clear to determine that the doctor?s treatment is criminal or in violation of a Code of Ethics/Conduct that they MUST legally adhere to, your recordings might help you. If this ends up in an actual court battle, a judge may have the final say on whether to allow the written transcript or the original recorded evidence. It is legal to journal and date any conversations between yourself and provider. It may be legal to write/type the transcripts from your recordings if you have any. It?s best not to tell anyone except a lawyer about the recordings. A knowledgeable attorney will advise you properly. If someone feels uncomfortable recording a doctor in secret, it is legal to ask the doctor for verbal consent to record the visit. If the doctor consents, it might lead to a better outcome and ethical treatment. Everyone has a legal right to personal medical records to see what is recorded in them. In Colorado they have 30 days to comply. What is in personal records follow a person for life and may influence future medical treatment and decisions. It is legal to ask for a photocopy of a personally signed request of personal medical records.

Since the goal is to get well and return to work, counsel may be needed if proper treatment and diagnosis is blatantly denied. When not working with an attorney, it is legal to personally request to see another provider from your health insurance provider or works compensation carrier. Failure to properly diagnose and treat is considered malpractice in Colorado. A medical malpractice attorney can determine if that is the issue over the phone for free in most instances. If this is a WC claim, it is a legal right to ask for an Independent Medical Exam. Having a WC attorney could be VERY helpful for this, since a request can be denied. In an effort to get well, teaching hospitals often offer various affordable treatment options. The University of Denver has teaching facilities.
Doctors, Insurance carriers and lawyers have lawyers for protection. An attorney can give a free consultation on the matter. If this is still going it might help to post legal question like this on Avvo.com. Avvo attorneys will answer legal questions for free. It is legal to contact Dora.gov for any fraud or violations (keep in mind docs are very well protected). Your doctor WILL see a copy of any complaints written about them. You can check out the physician/physiatrist reviews on vitals.com or healthgrades.com as well. It might be a boost if you find out that you are not alone in your situation.
I said a TON, but as I said I went through the very similar experience. Same doctor perhaps. It?s been a month since your post and I hope your situation has resolved in your favor by now.

http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2014/05/patients-secretly-record-doctor-visits.html
http://www.vegress.com/index.php/can-i-record-calls-in-my-state
http://www.diligentiagroup.com/legal-investigation/private-investigator-tips-is-it-legal-to-record-a-phone-call-or-conversation/

Michael Hiers says:

wiretapping

how is it legal to know I’m being recorded and they’ve been recording for 7 years and they totally do this recording from hundreds miles away Shouldn’t I prosecute the recording party and tell people of authority they have not been here in person and they are using what I call mouth piece sound surveillance super warrant wiretapping tape recorded evidence Knowing they are lying and knowing we’ve not been in any conversations face to face and they take advantage of a person like myself and being a paranoid schizophrenic, knowing this is not a imaginary voice, over time meds should eventually work, helps me sleep at night but as soon as I get up its like a force field of technology wants to knock me out I think this evidence or recording is messed up and most of the time is used as abusive power

Mike Sommers says:

Bravery

Just like how fat Black women wear hats to gain unknown confidence, we should just record whomever we want to. Punks I did not know recorded me on the school bus. It made me feel like a Porn Star that excites them. Sure. They laughed at me because I am Black and ugly to them, but it is what it is. I say “Make everyone famous on the internet.” Lol. I did the same thing to them. There is a smell of blackmail, but, then again, once b?tches start calling you a freak, as if they suffer from turret syndrome, you might as well do the same to them. There mom was in on it, but she suddenly gasped in shock when I did the same thing to them. Now they are paranoid freaks. Hey. They started it. School is just like that. The awkward part is that most don’t know who is being sneaky. Lol. It’s a trip. It’s not mean. It’s called life. Like I said, they started it. Also, I go by the quote “You cannot harm others without harming yourself.” Girls be wildn’ with them weaves and wigs on. Sigh. Random bravery. I wonder what happens when someone smacks that hat off their scalp. Lol. Only in Merica’. The great news is that it all becomes a stalemate. Little kids be scared of their own family, but they all learn soon enough. Hey. B?tch Girls start sh?t to begin with because they crave the attention and excitement they don’t feel at home. So, they spank their hands and go nuts, thinking they can get away with BS and not get any BS afterwards. B?tches must be trippin’ to think that’s how it works. I don’t know why some people develop paranoid schizophrenia over it. That’s just being unable to accept the fact that that’s life. Sh?t. Just look at YouTube. Creepin’ on people in Wal-Mart is a classic. Lol. We’re all famous, even without signing contracts. This is Merica’. B?tches get freaked out enough to start the flickers. I swear. They say they torture an innocent person because they are freaked out by the way he or she looks and want to show others. And I’m always like “What about them?” Then they cry, hating themselves. Lol. You ask for it. Just saying. If you can’t take the heat, jump out the window. So, all I’m saying, is to be assertive to make assertive others rue. Got something like that from that ICarly girl. Lmao. (^0^)/

Pauly (profile) says:

Use of covert recordings

I have read all posts with interest and it makes my situation even muddier. A manager of my company used a covert digital device to record line management meetings, within which we discussed other employees sensitive information in relation to providing support to them and how their behaviour was impacting on my company. The discussion was appropriate as she is the employees line manager and thus her responsibility to provide support. However I have since discovered this manager has allowed others outside the organisation to listen to these recordings. I am outraged but it would look like I am responsible being the data controller of the company but employment law states its ok to do so but apart from that it is simply morally wrong to use this very sensitive information as a means of entertainment. I was totally unaware of the recordings being made or their use afterwards but how do I prove this. Would welcome any suggestions. I’m frantic, my business could be at stake and these employees trust me !!

Wayne (profile) says:

VA Patient recording meeting in his private hospital room.

Would this cover a inpatient at a VA hospital were the doctor, the nurse manager, and the floor social worker let you know a hour in advance that all 3 together will come to your room to inform you of something and you being the veteran & patient use your laptop to record the conversation telling you that a severe mistake happen and that a medication I was on was not held 2 days before till 2 days after a CAT scan with dye being done and might have damaged my kidneys. which they ran a text and 2 days later they tell me I have stage 3 kidney failure. So is it legal in a VA hospital to record that it being my own hospital room and it was a private room.

tim says:

banks

I recorded myself and a teller while giving formal notice in accordance with UCC 3-501. I announced that I was video and audio recording served the teller politely and calmly. Explained that I have returned they’re property and have put(them) on formal notice. Is that illegal? They called the police the police called me into the station went all gustapo on me. Red me my memoranda rights. And told me that I could be facing federal charges. Ultimately the said that if I didn’t delete the video in front of them they would confiscate the phone. I deleted ????. Am or was I wrong?

Cathy says:

Re:

Just because you did not inform the other person of the recording does not imply intent to commit a crime. In fact, it can be the reverse if I am dealing with a pack of corrupt monsters and no one will believe what I say because they are marvellous at covering up for themselves, which means that my reputation is destroyed by their lies that I am the one lying. I have no way of proving anything unless I start recording the conversations I am having with them which reveals the truth. In this situation, the other party is the only one with intent to commit a crime, ie corruption. If I revealed that I was recording the conversation, they would conceal their intent and their actions just like they do in their written documentation. This is like being in a nightmare and not being able to wake up no matter how hard you pinch yourself.

Now, how do I use this evidence which I recorded according to the law where I live, with these corrupt monsters being allowed the lead to have me prosecuted if they can pick the slightest fault in my actions that were only done with lawful intent? – with their actions being only of unlawful intent?

You have to wonder why the situation is even allowed to proliferate at all, and why people on the side of right are not assisted and protected.

Cathy says:

banks

Hi Tim, I couldn’t see what UCC 3-501 had to do with audio recording. Your situation should relate to the privacy and/or recording devices legislation in your state. The police stated that you “could be facing federal charges”. Then they should have been able to cite the exact federal law that pertains to the the charges they were referring to – which law and which charge exactly. I am really surprised that the police would call anyone in on that, because it is obvious that you are only trying to protect yourself, and maybe prevent an ugly scene, although it may have been better to just have a witness present. What state are you in?

Cathy says:

Use of covert recordings

Hello Pauly,

It is usually always the case that the law is stricter about communicating the recording of a conversation than is about recording the conversation. It is usually not legal to secretly intercept other people’s conversations unless you are a police officer who is conducting approved surveillance. But if the manager or yourself were a party to the conversation it may be legal depending on what the law is in your state. But in any case, the law usually says that the recording can only be communicated to an approved authority within the organisation that the conversation is relevant to, and generally there must be a very compelling reason to reveal a covertly recorded conversation to another party, such as for evidence of misconduct, or to protect your legal interests, and the process for doing this must be followed exactly, and it can only be communicated to the designated authority for this purpose. There can be variations on this across different states. but it is usually always illegal to communicate recorded conversations to just anyone for entertainment, and/or to make them public, especially when the designated process has not been followed first.

Did you actually check for yourself about the employment law that you referred to that says it is legal to covertly tape meetings and then play the conversations to anyone for entertainment or curiosity? I can not imagine that this would be the case.

The guilty party is a manager, but you are worried that you may not be able to prove that you were not aware of what was going on at the time so as not to be implicated. I would have thought that the onus is not on you to prove this. If someone wanted to find you guilty, isn’t the onus on them to prove that you did know what was going on? I don’t see how anyone could prove that. It could come down to who owns, or was in official receipt of the recording device,whose fingerprints are on it, who has the recordings in their possession or saved on their computer, and things like that which would implicate a person.

It is also a possibility that an employee whose conversations were played to people outside the organisation, could sue for damages if the employee suffers damages as a result of the manager’s unbelievably poor conduct (which could also be illegal). It may be the case that the manager is personally liable for her actions, but if I were you, I would get legal advice to check and take what action if any to ensure that your company is not exposed to such a potential lawsuit.

I hope all goes well for you because you obviously recognised and care about what is right, and about people being able to trust you.

Ellen (user link) says:

feeling threathen by coworkers and boss

I have a boss who is very hostile to me. I feel fearful most times he is around. He has affected my relations with my coworkers. I feel that my work area gets tempered with as well.
So one afternoon just after being berated by my boss. I got up and left my desk with my phone on record. Told them I was going to lunch.The next day I came back early to my office and listen to the recording. He was putting me down to all my coworkers and telling them how sick he was of me.All of the coworkers joined him bashing me. He said he should get some Visine and put it in my coffee so I could have the shits for weeks. He had everyone laughing. I was in complete panic. I was always feeling threathen but now even more. I started shaking badly. I do not know what to do. Unfortunately I can do nothing about this because it was not legal to record. I would be in so much trouble. But now I have to walk around with this fear. Do you think I have any recourse?

Ellen (profile) says:

While in "social" situations with people who are questionable

I think that using a recording device should be okay when people are in chronic situations because of obligations. I believe that if you have been in situations where you have been either bullied or singled out by peers or groups on a frequent basis, then using a recording device would be handy in proving such conduct. When growing up, I have been in various groups in churches and schools, and even various kids in the neighborhood. There was usually some form of conflict, whether it be constant teasing or even blaming the same person every time something happened. When there are other people around who will not act as a proper witness or defend/protect someone, then that is when the recording device is needed. When I was ten years old a girl in the neighborhood who was friends with one of my friends, ran into my shin with her bike, she lied about it and my friend and her brother denied seeing anything. I was on the grass, not the sidewalk or street. I had no one on my side, and all throughout my school years she was a taunting b**ch, and had no respect for anything,including authority. So, because of situations like that, having recording devices would be a godsend.

jimmy lee donnelly says:

been suspended from work buy video recording

Hi iv just been suspended from work today as i have been video recording myself doing major tyre repairs even tho im not qualified to do so. And my boss has been discrimination me and been verble abusive to me, so thats why iv been voice recording/video recording myself. And i have posted a video of him on youtube… Im i breaking the law.

Pauliep103 (profile) says:

people recording you without your knowledge

Hi I agree, I’m a supervisor in a nyc college I was notified by another supervisor of an act that was committed by another employee my Sr.Supervisor advised me that someone sent a recording about me speaking in a meeting with other staff and that I said the word SHIT” the conversation was please do me a favor the night shift is talking SHIT saying we left a bag a garbage in the day shift in a porter closet please take all your trash out ! Have a good day and go on your duties. One person recorded it and sent it to another and then that person
Told my SR.supervisor to listen to it as said by my supervisor to me isn’t that against my civil rights isn’t that defimation of character

nasch (profile) says:

people recording you without your knowledge

isn’t that against my civil rights isn’t that defimation of character

It may be a violation of recording laws (depends on your state), but truth is an absolute defense against defamation in the US. In other words, someone circulating a true recording cannot be defamation. I’m not a lawyer, this is a lay person’s understanding of the law.

antman says:

dont give a fu**

Ok so if your in my home talking about things that i for one dont know about and dont care to know about but are at the same time putting my honor and integrity at risk with my friends or love ones i will record that all day long and it wont matter that its not admissible in court and hear is the reasoning 1 ill handle that myself and show to the person that was talked about or in most cases lied on so you guys can keep talking im dragging them out im tapping them out so there is a time for brains there is a time for face hitting the curb and as i digress there is a lot of people talk lot of sh** but when it comes down they are not feeling on that sh** so i ask no i encourage folks to stop with that chit chatting and jaw jacking and let the rubber hit the road talk about it be about it there is a time for anger even jesus turned over the profits table to make a pointe so guess what im trying to say is buck up or shut the fu** up god bless you and hope you all the best DC out

herman says:

contractor is lying

I recorded are contractor cussing me out, lying about work that was done, and fraud, he had me sign a paper saying county inspector wanted me to sign it, now he is suing me for work done that needed to be fixed that he didn’t do right, I have this conversation on recording about him saying county inspector wanted me to sign this, we are elderly and permanently disabled, we don’t know what to do, I am typing this at 3 a.m because I cant sleep, I have been this way for about 3 weeks, we cant afford an attorney

Theresa Sappe says:

Illegal audio video in home used against persons

I disagree as in My case it is being used as a conspiracy to torture me so the persons responsible for the taping can game monetary income or obtain something such as a divorce after applying torture measures to make react in a negative way this in itself is actually a crime against Me abusive and intent to commit a criminal act with planned conspire example to be with another woman as I feel maybe what is current happenings to me

NoWhereToGoInFlorida... says:

Abolish AntiRecording Laws

(Sorry for any mistakes I made in advance & this lengthy post; I’m afraid as I’m typing this)
I’m getting verbally threatened every day & I have no one to talk about it to because this person knows I’m in hiding from my ex-husband who tried to kill me. The only people who know where I’m at are my elderly parents & my 22 yr old daughter (the former can’ be bothered not just due to their age as ‘they want things to be simple in life’ as they’re married now 50+ yrs & Ultra religious) & I don’t want to burden my daughter who is recently married living in Alaska.

I just had 5 discs replaced & literally have a cage with pins in my cervical spine until the bone regrows (with a spring) I’m not allowed to move my neck & I’m in the neck brace you see when people are feared paralyzed for the next few months. I own my own house but if there was space at a domestic shelter I would happily go. I can’t evict this person without a 30-day notice through the court (says the police even though he’s not contributing anything & I had him sign a legal blinding agreement). I’m obviously not allowed to drive or be out without a walker. This person has a major in psychology (I was a CPA) but he’s a ranging alcoholic & does the dip thing in between that makes him even more out of it (plus he steals my MS medicine). This person has a warrant (which I didn’t know about before) from Texas for running from his 2nd probation for DUI (Texas thinks it’s his first so it’s classified as a misdemeanor but if they find out if there’s a prior from another state they’ll certainly upgrade it to a felony). Anyway, I just want this person out (not through jail although FL doesn’t seem to know anything about his well publicized warrant; he’s REALLY paranoid about going back as I found out he’s only spent 45 days there & while I feel for him & offered him help via lawyer he won’t do anything about it; he said he’ll wait until his Texas license expires in 2018). I tried to use the Aspire app but was warned you’re not allowed to record in Florida as it’s a felony. I was lucky that Darlene from 211 witnessed some of it but this person threw down my phone. This is HELL & that’s the biggest understatement I can ever think of. Also, I really do feel like no one cares about whether I live or die anymore, & trust me, I have a right to feel that way. (P.S. This person swears that they are in love with me so I begged counseling; he also begged for cameras because he’s right about EVERYTHING & even though it’s pathetic at our ages I thought well at least I can feel secure; when I agreed & tried to make it happen he got really paranoid…he’s paranoid in general, which makes it MUCH worse).

Anonymous Coward says:

It makes no sense that it should be ok for a person,thought to be a trusted friend,sitting across the table with a concealed tape recorder in her purse,recording a conversation and that conversation used for revenge to get a person beaten up or maybe killed.What can be done to expose such a person even if the information has already been passed on to the women that hired her?

TJM (profile) says:

What about making a recording w/o consent if they have signs posted that audio and video recording is taking place

Ok so I have a situation with a pair of probation officers. I’ll give an example of my question. When I meet with them they have a sign on the door informing me that audio and video recording is taking place and by entering you are made aware of this. So can I use their own signs which acknowledge that their own audio and video signs at their location as implied consent that my recording is done with consent. As the signs they put up are targeted to anyone who enters, can I make an audio and or video recording without explicitly asking for consent since their own signs inform the probation officers as well as the me that recording is going on.

Why do this. It would take too long to go into fully but an example is I was hospitalized, a toxscreen taken, there was 2 presumptive positives for opiates and benzodiazapines. I have prescription the alprazolam, a benzo and only trace amounts of that were present as I’d stopped taking it before all this. After confirmation testing, NO drugs were detected from the sample but my prescription. As a result they want me to go to treatment though I am sober. I took a CD evaluation, and the recomendation was a safe driving class. So my last meeting my PO asked the other guy which driving class I was supposed to take. He got angry accused me of having heroin in my system based on a release of info I signed. He will not show it to me because it is considered private medical information, even though it is mine and for them to get it I had to sign the release.

So I explained thruthfully I have not used Heroin or opiates for almost 10 years. He then told my PO that he went to my house, was inside it, and that it is empty, nobody living there etc. He asked my address first and flat out lied to my PO a lie that could put me in Jail. I have witnesses that I am there every day, a real estate agent who knows I am there and the house is not empty-its on the market but nobody has moved anything! I had my mother call my PO immediately and confirmed the conversation had taken place, that if he had ever been inside it was not with our consent, and being that I am there every day, she wanted to know why this allegation was made. They verified the address and he had simply lied.

Further there was another hospitalization I signed a release for, my PO admitted to having recieved it after I signed a release. As soon as the other guy was there they claimed never to have received it, but in the same few sentences asked why I did not follow through with their directive to get a CD eval and treatment-again the toxscreen was negative for everything. So they denied having that though he asked why I did not follow the hospital’s suggestion.

So can I record without asking specifically if the area I would be doing so is marked by them as an area where such recording is going on?

Chuck says:

Happen to pick up ex cheating

My daughter complained to me she was hearing noises at night time. I tried to tell her it was just one of our pets trying to get in her room. she said it was something else. So i went and purchased and audio recording device that activates when sound is heard. to prove to her it was the cats and dog. after returning from a trip, i played it and discovered that my wife had brought a man into my home and had an affair. The device was in the hallway and hidden from view. Can i use this? since it was not for my ex, nor for malicious use?

Jim says:

Recored cell phone conversation

I have a ? for a lawyer or Judge , If in the state of NC one party consent star as fares recording if the plaintiff knownigly recorded a phone conversation when the second party defendant was on sleep medication can it the conversation be used in a civil court case accusing harrassement? State of NC

please reply at e-mail address

Thank you

Sean says:

Recording VA meetings with doctors and staff

I have been recording secretly meeting with VA doctors and VA staff in Michigan VAMC’s collecting evidence that shows years of neglect, malpractice, HIPPA law violations, false claims, denials of presumptive disabilities….you name it, its all recorded.

Legal or not, the intent is to take all the evidence to the public through radio talk shows to disclose the corruption from top to bottom at more than one VAMC in Michigan.

Anonymous Dirt says:

You're very wrong

This was meant for Hippy Hop. You do not need someone else’s consent to record then if you are a party to that conversation and that there isn’t any malicious intent to the recording. But if you and I are having a conversation and I decide to record it and you admit to embezzling money from the local girl/boy scout troop then I have every right to turn that recording over to the authorities so long as the state we were in doesn’t have laws that are more private than the federal wiretap laws stipulate. State law would supersede Federal law if they are more strict about recording someone.

freedom says:

It
is not right! aND HERE IS ONE REASON TO KNOW ABOUT BECAUSE THIS
COULD HAPPEN TO YOUR FAMILIY
ALSO!!
{ SO WRONG!)
Electronic harassment and SPY REVENGE LISTENING
implants
with mind control and used by thugs..
to thwart off a criminal case or hurt you and make you look crazy to shut you, as control and using unauthorized or hacked government,
police technology or military technology unauthorized by our leader!!!!to make you look like your ill or have a problem and not when your family does not even know about this covered operation to take you out of the picture of your home, friends and family!
It is the silent murder and it’s done with two way tiny radios and computers!
but the neighbor in your area knows how it’s being done waiting for your elimination….
is using illegal operations covertly to set you up! Because it is NEGLGENCE on your side AND
the laws side because they know about this technology…
but they ignore you when you say anything!
aND IT IS A PROEVEN FACT THAT WE ARE GETTING OUR MINDS READ…BUT THEY ALSO DID NOT SAY WHO ELES WILL BE…rAED THE ABOVE! EGAL HARASSMNET AND TORTURE IMPLANRTS

nonames says:

So if im was told by my lawyer anything audio or video what ever i can get on proof doing it the legal way to help my case because of a safety reason thats not valid ..i have to tell the other person or party “hey im recprding you” of course thier not gonna do anything because thats not the point of telling them how else you post to get proof thier not gonna do anything stupid?? ..i was just using this phrase as a example.. But this being used in a legal way ..not illegal way..

Unhappy says:

Cheating wife

I found out shes been escorting, prostituting to be exact and i want to call for her services and video tape her as she shows up to the hotel. Is that illegal? Im fighting for custody of my daughter who is being neglected and that has already been established. I just need hard core evidence i dont want pictures of her walking to a hotel then say oh i was visiting someone i need pictures of her walking in the room for service or at least exchange money.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re:

Dash cams, in car cams for taxis and ride share programs like uber, disputes with someone so what both sides said and do is on record. There are many reasons one might want to record something that is happening to them, around them, or to their properties. And if for your protection asking permission to record is somewhat silly in many cases, but in other cases it would be polite to indicate that you are recording.

Doc (profile) says:

Not true Hippy Hop

The federal law that covers all states except the district of columbia allows the 1 caller law to be enforced. I or you may record any of your own conversations at anytime anywhere. You do not have to tell others you are recording your conversation either in person or on the phone. It’s not allowed in DC of course because of the politicians. In fact you cannot call into DC and record your own conversation since part of it is in DC.
But you can record any conversation you are a legitimate part of. Don’t let anyone tell you different.

nasch (profile) says:

Not true Hippy Hop

The federal law that covers all states except the district of columbia allows the 1 caller law to be enforced. I or you may record any of your own conversations at anytime anywhere. You do not have to tell others you are recording your conversation either in person or on the phone.

It’s not that simple.

“Eleven states require the consent of every party to a phone call or conversation in order to make the recording lawful. These “two-party consent” laws have been adopted in California, Connecticut, Florida, Illinois, Maryland, Massachusetts, Montana, New Hampshire, Pennsylvania and Washington.”

More information at http://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/recording-phone-calls-and-conversations

Anonymous Howard, Cowering says:

I sure don't want to be recorded... #18

Hugh Mann said, “I have the right to privacy…” and then some other gibberish that appears to be American English but is devoid of meaning.

Care to provide citations for that statement? The Fourth Amendment and the Privacy Act of 1974 both apply only to government’s interactions with individuals, not to individuals’ interactions with each other. Anything less than a federal-level statute lacks sufficient authority to apply.

This conversation may have already been recorded for training purposes.

merideth.konkel@yahoo.com says:

Federal Law

Greeting,

You see possesed of significant knowlege of Federal Law. I am a Petioner Ad LITEM pertinent to an Extrodinary Writ, strictly in the Interst of justice. The matter involves the on_going commissions of Human Trafficking between Party_States in Interstate Compact. My #414-379-9035, plz call or E-mail if you have interest in learning more about the matter and a particular question about delivery of Emergency/Extrodinary Writ to the Supreme Court. Thank you for your time and consideration.

Merideth

Suzanne Ciskowski says:

Recording (privacy or not-privacy)

I agree about privacy … But we don’t live in perfect, idyllic world where we can leave our doors unlocked and feel safe.
I live in Arizona , a one-party state, and I’m so grateful that I do.
I’m disabled… I don’t just record others to take away their privacy, but to protect my own (Rights)
I see many many doctors, been hospitalized approxmently fifteen (10) times since 2006 & all-together approxmently fifteen (15) times since 1991. I’ve had to have surgeries, so much testing many of which most people have never heard of & the most troubling thing is no matter how many tests show that there is a major medical problem etc most (not a few doctors etc) of the medical world sucks & treat people like a number and/or like they don’t matter.
So much and not just medical has happened to me, (it would take weeks to write it all) but the short version is that as long as there are those who lie, cheat, etc at the expense of those whom either can’t defend themselves or know that they are being lied to, etc I will continue to record which I do completely by the law of not just my state but also the laws in other states if I’m talking to someone in on the phone, (I usually ask by asking what their weather is like or if I detect an accent etc)
When I learned that Arizona was a one-party state just a few years ago, I began to record. Not just the bad but also the good including (many of my doctors appointments) I do it because of many different reasons
1. To follow instructions
2. To make sure of what and how to properly take my medications etc
3. To also make sure that doctor doesn’t claim they said one thing when I know they said something else. (I’m always told be your own advocate) but if you are your own advocate many times you get blacked-balled, which can happen to others (if they want to fight for their rights)
Medical is just one of millions of things we as individuals have to face on a daily basis & in most cases unless (as one attorney put is) “you need a smoking gun” figuratively speaking.

shamal (profile) says:

Recording With Clear Clarity With Air Shou Screen Recorder App

Ha Ha Ha ill add some more information for this discussion because recording scenes is good these days. If you record the screen or scene with good quality then it might help us to keep proofs in HD Quality. So, i recommend you all to download AirShou Screen Recorder to Record your Screen on iPhone/iPad without jailbreak.

Brandon says:

Maryland oral recording - in my own home

Hey guys, very confusing the back-and-forth here, and my lawyers are also disagreeing with what constitutes a recording that is admissible in court or not.

I have an audio recording of my wife threatening to push me down the stairs. I went to the court (without this recording as evidence) and was able to get a 7-day Protective Order based off my threat claims of what she said. The judge stressed that I need to have evidence at our next hearing.

I recorded my wife’s threat while we were in my residence. When I say “my,” I mean that the house is solely in my name, as well as every utility and bill associated with the property.

One lawyer has stated that I can absolutely use this as evidence and it’s not illegal to play for a judge in open court, specifically because it was done within my home that is in my name. She said my wife didn’t need to be informed of the recording taking place at all. I have had another lawyer say that I still needed her consent in order to use it as evidence in open court.

I can dissect the statutes all day long, but for one lawyer to say I can’t and another say I can… I just want a straight answer. Being on the fence I am leaning towards offering it up for evidence as it would ensure that the 7-day Protective Order be pushed out for an entire year, meaning I will be safe.

Lupius (profile) says:

Maryland oral recording - in my own home

Considering that any judge with the authority to issue a Protective Order would have to acknowledge that recordings of threats against you that prove the need for the Order would be a ‘legitimate’ reason to record somebody without their informed consent, using the recording as evidence will be just fine. If you should happen to end up in front of a judge that disagrees, you can always appeal their decision.

Daine says:

Oh really? Implanted, tape or followed listened anywhere to… or what are we talking about here? We knew a person who attempted a fraud institutional situation for a person and their family by accusations, intimidations, harassment, stalking hired, investigation unwarranted(Paid with personal money!)blocking their lives with animal poison threats and keeping them from enjoying life on their own property and home damage system with others involved… by law or court and to make the person they did not like do stuff and not of themselves for “Self defense” purposes because they were ignored by police or misunderstood ( and the others knew what was going on!) and because of family type ties….because of the situation and way area was set up with mapping coincidences! and still there is stuff, but they try to ignore the system thought to be a system that beats the system! And this is one problem that has to be fixed because it puts good people and their jobs and family ties in a undefended undefined limiting your life and entrapment makers maybe(?)and dangerous situation because you don’t know what those accusers can do at any time!

Frederic John Siew (profile) says:

Can you provide legal evidence

I have recorded some phone calls for evidence can you provide me some case history some precedence and some other inside so I can cite that before I send my lawyer who has acted unethically and I am about to file a grievance against . Please feel free to email me because I don’t know how to check back this site for a comment please email me your response directly .

Ben says:

Reasonable Causes?

Hi, I am making a story and I want it to be realistic. My character lives in Michigan and has a situation similar to this.
So out of curiosity, if you record someone without their knowledge for reasonable causes (such as that person was threatening you) with that be wrong? And if, that person did threaten you on tape and you turn it into the police, would that be wrong?Plus, you made the police aware why you recorded that person without their knowledge and the police doesn’t mind the recording, would that be wrong?

Is there any exceptions to recording people without their knowledge?

Does this vary from state to state?

Specifically, what are the exceptions to record someone without their knowledge?

Can I see that Michigan exception or law in writing?
Thanks to anyone who answers!

Janet Curtis (profile) says:

recording

my niece is a felon living at 91 yr old grandmas home. my mom. feds are tapping landline..they need to hear the abuse! meanwhile felonious niece is tapping all fam phones and landlines even from bk east. how to i inform the feds and make sure thy are hearing how bad my mom is being abused along with me!? they need to make this stop! telephone co said no blocks on her landline so its some other way she says she forgot how to undo it. its SICK!

Bria Amenn says:

Verizon

Right on, I worked for Verizon landline former Bell Atlantic & NYNEX for 25 years. They were so hungry to get long distance if callers waited more than 15 minutes they went to a voice mail making the call length 15 Mins even though nobody answered. That was fraud perpetrated by Verizon to the PA Utility Commission and they got busted cause there is no way you can beat the PA PUC. How about Verizon having a $150,000 life insurance policy on me and never told me? The only people who hate Verizon more than the customers is the employees. If I hear one more person say well you are Union great pay and benefits just quit. Even Verizon employees have to take care of their kids. The Verizon site is always looking for people. Sign up and get the job call me around 5 years if you last you too will hate everything they stands for. The Mental Health providers in Pittsburgh as a whole are well aware of the abusive high stress environment. NOW if you call of they come to your house to see if you need anything. 2 managers. That is like the Nazi’s I had 3 managers come to my house on an FMLA approved absence are. Mental Health providers will tell you if you have the rapport that Verizon is a cash cow for the Mental Health industry. Stress, heart attacks, addiction to cope with stress I was strung out on Xanax because of those bastards ALL are aware what a pressure cooker it is. Psychologists routinely write people off. One manager had 1/3 of her staff off on stress. I was there and was just being harassed cause I left an invoice in the copy machine the Union Rep fucking shows it to my boss I get written up as I walked out of the room I said the worst 2 word you can say “Fuck This went to my seat got what I valued and just left. Claimed disability and got my pension FUCK YOU Verizon. I am no idiot my IQ ia 167 I have an MBA from Carnegie Mellon ranked 12th in the US the year I gtaduayed. Verizon Wireless is such a joke I was a trainer there. There are 27 categories you must meet a quote to get satisfactory. How I the heel would you even know the most important besides new lines. I looked at it and aid to a first level manager this his to be a joke. he said what no its are rating system. You underperform 3 months in a row FIRED. There is no way you can increase your rating across the board. The Union is trying to get in and shape these parasite up. I have a VP tell me just when I finished my MBA we really only want people in the same job 7 y ears. I would have fell over. I said how long are you a VP this bitch says 13 years .

Bria Amenn says:

Response to: Pixelation on Aug 19th, 2010 @ 6:12pm

well I worked at Verizon for 25 years. Because Verizon is the incumbent service provider in Washington DC Congress has to approve any takeover. So when the GTE buy out surfaced we all KNEW Bell Atlantic, which combines 2 local bell companies Bell Atlantic and NYNEX the 2 strongest Regional Bell Operating Companies that were created with the MCI lawsuit against AT&T. Now here is a problem Bell Atlantic at the time had from Maine to Virginia and D.C. In order to takeover another company as Bel Atlantic did with GTE Congress had to approve it. So Verizon falls back on its true blue battle pan. LIE. They said the much much smaller GTE was merging with Bell Atlantic. By just total revenue Bell Atlantic blew GTE out of the water but Lyin Verizon got what they wanted spread campaign dollars every place they could and everyone was blinded by the green. That is a felony to misleads a telecommunications Senate Committee. Verizon is also notorious for not paying ANY corporate Income Tax.e

Chuck says:

In home security camera

I had a camera partially concealed by a plant in the family room of my house, aimed at the back door and door to the garage. .

My ex volunteered to come over daily for pet care while I was away.

He used the time to go through the entire house and remove what I hope were his personal items. The camera notified me of motion at the house.

I was able to watch the camera live, I could also allow audio and record if I chose. I intended to attach the camera to a hard drive for safety/surveillance as I lived alone..

What are the legal issues in my home? What about my ex making calls while at my home? This was definitely a “public” part of the home.

Audrey says:

So what if someone is threatening me without cause, for instance, I’m biking around a path in a park, and a lady walks up and accuses me I’m not allowed to/ I’m doing something wrong, saying I’m hitting kids and trash talking them. Now, if I then pull out my phone and record from around the beginning of her accusation, and she begins telling me she was going to call the cops if I don’t leave, or if I don’t call my parents to talk to her she’ll steal my bike, or full on does steal my bike and walks off claiming to “take it to the police as evidence”, can I then use the video against her, legally? Or could I get in trouble for recording it, even if I don’t show her face? I try and record stuff like this daily, (my friend nearly had his drone stolen, and situations like the one I described above) and I want to know that- if in a situation where I had to prove she said something threateningly, could I use that video? (Don’t know if this changes anything, but I do live in Washington state.)

Anonymous Coward says:

What about home security???

You may wish to look into your local laws before doing anything. I’ll give you a quick breakdown of how recording consent typically works in different places, though.

All party consent requires that everyone involved in an interaction be aware that recording is taking place. When you call a tech support line, for example, and they inform you that your call is being recorded, they’re either operating out of an all party consent jurisdiction, or they’re covering their asses just in case you’re calling from one (even if you’re not).

Single party consent requires that only one person or organization is aware that recording is taking place. This single party could be you, meaning so long as you are aware that an interaction is being recorded, that’s good enough, you don’t need to tell anybody else, including those who are being recorded. This is a pretty common default in a lot of places.

Zero party consent means that nobody who is being recorded needs to know that they are being recorded. This is usually not the legal default, because then any citizen could legally tap their neighbor’s phones. Usually you find this as a legal exemption made for government agencies, either as a blanket allowance (NSA) or only with a warrant (local police).

So yeah, try and find out where Texas falls under. Also make sure that you don’t have any municipal laws that supersede state law. You could find yourself in a situation where, say, Houston might have two-party consent while Texas might have one-party consent.

jwillseys (profile) says:

California: Taping grad school professor for individual use only

In California, is it legal to tape parts of lectures for my use only, without prior consent? I have done this, e.g., when entering a class late and not wanting to interrupt to ask. I have not always remembered to go to them afterward to tell/ask them; honestly, I didn’t think it was a big deal, and on some level maybe I was afraid they would tell me “no,” or to delete it.
Listening later can help me catch things I may miss in class just by listening once at the time. I used my iPhone, which is password-protected. I want to talk with the professor about something he said (which I heard on the recording playback), but now am concerned I didn’t get prior consent.

Hudson Anders says:

School violates 1st Amendment Rights and threatens kid too

If a kid knows they are going to be threatened by the administration as they had already threatened them, and the parents in the days before relentlessly, then asks the student to come into a meeting, is it ok for the student to record the conversation in a 2 Party consent state of the school, knowing the school is again going to massively violate their 1st Amendment Rights and threaten their grades, graduation etc..basically stating to shut up and do what they say which is actually optional and can be opted out of as others have done?

nasch (profile) says:

School violates 1st Amendment Rights and threatens kid too

The only part of the question that is relevant is that it’s a two party consent state. That means if the student informs the administration the conversation is being recorded, then yes it’s fine. Otherwise no, it’s illegal. All that stuff about the first amendment, threats, etc. has no bearing on the recording question.

Aaron says:

Verizon

Dear seemingly reckless and diminutive Tom.

Are you an idiot? Unable to conceptualize the gravity of the situation or conversation? Do you really think ANYONE is interested in your skepticism and personal vendetta to create an argument, for arguements sake, when you make an uneducated and pointless comment like this. Especially when. Is has nothing to do with the conversation? I’ll bet you’re also one of these liberal and self-proclaimed progressives who believes everything they’re force fed by the agenda driven Main stream media outlets. Aka CNN, ABC, NBC, PBS(sadly). Ok… now I’m of subject! (I digress). Wake up! You’re not special, interesting, funny, amusing, or contributing (most importantly). You’re responding to a party of one sir. You! Enjoy!!! Nothing about this comment and your slanderous positioning to strike down another persons integrity is progressive! I’ll credit your thoughts and opinions once you’ve broken free of the intelectually inferior sheople, and can prove you are capable of some original and solution based thinking! So I encourage and even dare you to… Break away from that group of delusional band wagoneer’s of liberals, self righteous dems, and regressives. “The Sheople” we learned, accurately informed, And understanding folk like to call you. You’re making the national deconstruction, civil unrest, and social divide way to easy for all the new wave controlling fascists, and their divide and conquer master plan.

Andy says:

Verizon

Aaron, I’m calling BS on the “my IQ is 167” statement as well. Why? Because 0.001% of the population has an IQ over 160 which makes the odds of you having an IQ of 167 almost impossible. Primarily though because a person with an IQ of 167 could and would have come up with a way to establish credibility that didn’t include claiming to have an IQ of 167. You sir, are a fraud.

ImJust Saying (profile) says:

EXAMPLE of secret recording

There’s an example (audio and transcript) of secretly recording a public official (in course of doing their job), for the purposes of recording evidence of illegal activity, at http://judicialmisconduct.us/CaseStudies/RYANvUS(ALSCHULERvEASTERBROOK)#phonecall.

Be sure to catch how it figures into a complaint of Judicial Misconduct, see the Judicial Conference Proceedings section of that webpage.

Zoey Miller says:

Verizon

Bria…

You have an IQ of 167 and an MBA from Carnegie Mellon…And, you can’t spell, construct a sentence or put an organized thought together?

OMG, I need a xanax after reading your post.

If this is what you claim Verizon "did" to you…and you claim to have an IQ of 167…I have to ask you…why did you let them?

Union Job or not, if you have an MBA from Carnegie Mellon, you can find a job that’s not going to kill you (emphasis added).

In fact, with those credentials, you can pretty much pick-and-choose which stressless job you want to allow into your life.

Three (3) of my family members graduated from Carnegie Mellon and I was offered a full scholarship there after high-school but, choose another school instead..and all three (3) of my cousins are pretty much living happy stress-free lives, while bring home high six-figure incomes.

And, none of them are on xanax, either.

And…I would venture to guess (and would guarantee I would be right) that none of them would ever drop the "F" bomb in an online, "what-did-I-just-read", "shake-your-head" rant of a post like this one.

My advice, though I know you aren’t seeking anyone’s advice here, lay off the xannies, forget about Verizon and go make good use out of an education most people would give their right arm to have.

An MBA from Carnegie Mellon? Post your resume on Indeed and I think you’ll soon be wondering why you ever worked for Verizon in the first place.

Good Luck to you,
Happt Holidays!

Zoey Miller says:

Re:

ALL DOCTORS, HEALTH CARE PROVIDERS (SPECIALISTS, SURGEONS, NURSES, LPN’S, AIDES, PHYSICAL THERAPISTS, MASSAGE THERAPISTS, ETC…) ALL HOSPITALS, ALL HEALTH CARE FACILITIES (PHYSICAL THERAPY, ETC…), ANY FACILITY IN CHARGE OF / STORE YOUR MEDICAL RECORDS OR ANY PERSON AND/OR MEDICAL OR NON-MEDICAL FACILITY WHO HAS ACCESS TO YOUR MEDICAL RECORDS (INSURANCE COMPANIES, BILLING DEPT. OF DOCTORS, HOSPITALS, ETC..) ARE BOUND BY HIPAA.

THEY CAN NOT OPT OUT OF IT.

Matt Smith says:

Verizon

I believe you, a lot of these big corporations are just so horrible to work for. They use you up and spit you out. There is no such thing as human dignity or honesty in much of corporate culture from what I have seen and experienced. Best of luck to you. Stay away from those lame asses as much as you can. Make a little money working for the corporations when you have no other option. Get out when they start crushing your soul. Save money, so you can move around as necessary. Everyone hang in there, humanity might get it right eventually,Peace!!!!!!

Brenda McDaniel says:

Auroa Voices

I do not think its right because I am I hearing the same thing from within to make me aware enough that what their using is to say and create issues to their advantage. Because of my husbands prostate problem and the ideal of eliminating me from everything in which I have no problem at all after all these years as housewife and others are screaming that I am not accomplishing a thing and see this as a tool for ones take over. I see it as a distraction and can not put up with what they sometimes say and use in order to benefit or make me nervous as to say, be careful or I did this or that and I feel like my husband is a man of his own and he should be the one to make his own mind up about things and I have been with him every day since I was 16. They are using the situation to control and make me less, look back and see all the experiences and confidents I had then I politely enjoy my home life and my husband goes off and stays gone all day and refuses to help me with any thing. He expects supper and every night something is said about what do I want and he never complained and has used this every night in order to make me draw up in a knot and feel so less. I think their should be an investigation and have complained and made documentations and the person who is provoking him to insinuate, is stalking me for the ideal of saying I do not please him and I should curl up and ask him every night and stand in there and be belittled and cussed and threatened for her pleasure. He was never bothered before and was glad to get the food on the table. I feel like this is coming from a friend who is in food services and I never go around thiese people. I beg God to put an end to it and stop being difficult for their or his conditions of throat cancer. They have even been in my home and set a hair up from the barber shop. I have never in my life been done the way I have for the others criminal intent and not be prosecuted for what is a subject of everything going on in order to blame me as a person. Look at the hate and the people and the computer and no respect for what is ones jealousy in order to drive a person crazy or make them go on for their personal gain. God help this makes you feel insecure and controlled and violated. How dare you do this to me and it has to do with me tracking him with the A T & T tracker and they bounced where they wanted to, well I love my only child and I love our families, plus the church and people are not the same and he should go protect his own and this should not be an issue for who wants something bad for me and to make me a distraction for the purpose of death and self destruction. Now something is terribly wrong with our society when the court feels like I am at fault and they have time to sit there and look for blame while I try my but off everyday Biblically and live to be greatful for what we both as husband and wife have accomplished, if that is an intent then how can I be about the others accusations of false commitment of trying to undermind one for the others self pity. How pathetic you are to even invade me as person, not mention my modesty and my privacy. Always trying to make a explain my goals and achievements in order to copy or create more animosity for how disrespectful they really are and feel they don’t have to ask. Well, I am not about doing what I want, I am about precautionary measures and I feel one is manipulating the system in order to be about money and self assurance when with all do respect, why cant they open up a dictionaray and stop being so critical because of their own doubt. In other words they act like they can belittle me in order to satisfy their own needs as well as Dougs and I was never told the truth, and to me why are they bothering now unless they want what they will never be and ounce of pride and respectfulness. If you cant stand up and be your on person and stop making your life about some unknown then they are hiding something and planned out an intent with malicious lies that only cost them imprisonment. I’m sorry they expected something worst, they needed suicide so they could be free to enjoy what their up to. Why because I don’t like everybody in my business because I don’t have time to take over and explain that my son is very important to me and his future. The responsibility as a parent and the choices he will be making does not make you any better for your ideal of incriminating someone who adores life and especially Gods blessings, simply because it could be worst and I am older and running out of time and they sit there with the world my the tail trying do me like a dog. God help these people because I don’t any part of it if it has to rule and try to make money off of everything that has happened. I will take to the Supreme Court if I have to because I have been violated and the issue is, I am human but I am not intentionally and I do get tired easily because of a medical condition. If you hear negativity and bad things and find that you can not vent write it down or explain it goes on until they expect you to leave and then they are the owner, in the event that they keep on harassing you for the intentional Tort of something so unkind and embarrassing to know they sit there and listen to voices all their life time and now use it against me is perhaps the telephone office or someone who was involved with a recorder or had the phone tapped at the bottom of the hill made them hungry for more or spiteful for their own remorse and vengefulness and they have no place in my life to hide or entrap me as a person or anyone else as long as I should live. Just like prayer and all the religions, this is personal choice by the individual and I should be respected not used for ones rejection. If this is used then how can I feel comfortable going out and staying alone or going on to school when one is pushing another incident to provoke an unforeseen accident or ideal of a hate crime only leaves me to be hated more and saids very little that you have to use this persuasion because of a dollar or someone so vain is despicable to me. Thank you for much and I suggest you forgive yourself because you only wanted humor to invade me personally because of your biases opinion in the first degree. Is it someone with throat cancer or needing my ideals like deodorant lotion and just how much money has these people made off of my brainstorming because I had time to think after all these years of hurry up and run because of an impatient husband needing more because of his Education and unable to read. We stayed busy so we could be the parents Brent needed in order to stay close and work at home on the Farm. Life was never about imposing any kind of threat I only see myself as very talkative and even-tempered and the Bible does speak of that. Because they want respect, to me respect is who fights for this Country and who has died and moved on because of poverty. A lot of judgment and sometimes repeat offenders do not know how to explain or question what reality is if you cant tell or feel no one understands how sometimes were all in need of HOPE and SECURITY Not being violated and relying on our own confidents and personal decisions. Respect for an individual has no barrier of bad news if you keep causing an interference. This was an easy outlet for you to control and want to bully me for my success in life, you wanted the credit and the reward for how many times have I saw this person in my life time. Someone that prefers an answer for what their doing to people close to me, in other words out of wedlock, would that be a forsaken reason that made them feel someone else is more entitled. It saids so very little when you can not be honest and a coward that takes a lot of guts.

ConnieJustine says:

did a love spell that brought her back to me

My fiancee came back to me after 3 months breakup, she left me because her ex husband was pestering her to dump me. But I am glad a witch I met through facebook did a love spell that brought her back to me. (sangopriestesslovesolution @outlook. com) renuited my ex back to me. We are getting married next month. I just want the world to share my happiness with me. Love is a beautiful thing. We are getting married in Beverly Hills Ca. because we just relocated, everyone is invited.

Mazman says:

Verizon

( hey verizon dude )
TOM,
I love what u wrote about the 15 minute bullshit when “in all actuality” as soon as the phone starts the call wether a ring or rang; and just a voice mail….boom, now ur charged…um, how about this: TO EVERYONE and everyone JUST STOP PAYING UR PHONES BILLS AND FUCK SPECTRUM the “monopoly” of television….who cares about the charges; be of concern of what we pay for TV…200 bucks and all I’m doing is watching commercials…well some would say, ” what about the DVR….I still have to pick up the remote to fast forword…lol, by now I have already consumed my T.V. dinner…cool, technology today is rising rapidly for what..to pay more money for the corporate america to bank on us. DO NOT GET ME STARTED ON GMO that person is another Einstein and his creation for a simple solution to stop a war…NUKE the japs… Einsteins pros vs. Cons is like trying to explain the good and the bad of a terrible relationship that goes nowhere.( We all; no matter what ever the excuse is. The cons, outweigh the positive).I guess my blog will only be understood by “You” hopefully if you’ve this far you totally undertand…and her it is, the answer.. **no matter what it is your looking for Tom….I been there…(dont let the poeple in your circle of communication break you down. This is the first time I have expressed myself in writing. So, to the people, lol…( hold on lol) that may comment about Tom’s sentences not making sense…it does not make sense to you maybe because your on a different level…poor Tom is a push over…because he is a nice guys..

.thanks to social media Temptation and divorce…THANKS YO UNIONS america is turning job sites like a chinese sweat shop…SOCIETY ALLOWS IT AND SO THAT MEANS IT OKAY…

Anonymous Coward says:

Verizon

Anyone, I mean any person on the Planet who needs to express their personal confidential credentials online to a public forum for unrelated reasoning shows a narcissistic behavior and, has deeply rooted self-loathing issues. Having this type of incessant desire in creating a mask that shows the world you are defined by something outside of yourself is self-sabotage. This is a safer place for her to exist in..I guess . .Her IQ which speaks volumes as to the need she has to quickly say I am special is just a way to disconnect from being uncomfortable when faced with intimacy or questions regarding herself… By wearing this mask, over time, cataloging the responses she receives gives her a stamp of approval from her alter ego. overtime, she becomes it, wears it,g. Fear of the unknown is real, produces great amounts of anxiety which in turn sabotages all efforts in remaining a fully functioning independent adult She cannot do this its to scary… so the other person or alter ego is created and through her life she has learned that this is a better place and safer for her. Honestly, most if not all healthy individuals would not engage in any sort of close interaction with someone who expressed this IQ special attention facade or showed remotely that she needed to use that to define who she was. I personally would be kind say nice meeting you and good luck but never would call or wish to see them again.

Paul Piwonka says:

Verizon

Hey, BRIA AMENN?

To the person, questioning your IQ? Screw that (most likely cheap OPP- ATTORNEY. I had to FIRE 3 of them, to settle AS A PRO SE LITIGANT / what all 3 Could not do, punctuated and all! Lol

The reason I chimed in, is It sounds just like so many ARROGENT attorneys on AVVO, that can’t even conceptionalize (sp) lol, a thing in reference to LAW. It only took me as a PRO-SE LITIGANT, 30 min to USING LAW CONCEPTS and all that applies, to have the 2 ins CO’s involved, BEGGING ME TO SIGN FULL POLICY LIMITS, ASAP. Then they said, and WE WILL DIRECTLY DEPOSIT “YOUR” money into your account. Yes, 30 min. Attorneys WASTED SO MUCH TIME BEING RAN IN CIRCLES by the crooked culture used in the ins CO’s. That had I not took over? Statues would ran out in 1 week. GET THIS, I told each and every attorney I TRIED, exactly how to do WHAT I DID, but their EGOS, could not ALLOW THEM TO SEE. My IQ? Yes, I’m told very superior to “average” but HELL, even a average IQ, person WOULD HAD KNOWN WHAT TO DO. Screw all ARROGENT attorneys that ARE EDUCATED WAY BEYOND THEIR ABLILY TO EVEN USE. Now I’m personally sueing bad faith on all ins co, and BOA. And winning.
Peace. And I could care less that my brain out-runs my care to WRITE PROPER SENTENCES/ to the point, only, they GOT IT.
Word

Freedom Fighter and American Lover says:

Donald Trump loves America. He should get a kick out of this

HELP! Lies don’t work. Take ownership. Anyone willing to be part of the let’s all act like Trump is cool because we haven’t seen his whole life in private be filmed without his consent and he is prepared to hurt someone awesome for NO fucking reason (oh, note to self, careful what I say, right? Asia? Ching Chong bing bong… They will end up leaving us with 4 words to say to each other and 1 facial expression. Grim as fuck from that sneak attack communism rollout they did in the US. I am not Jewish and never have been. You all know who I am. Check Sean Connery and Lady Diana Spencer. I am the awesomest Motherfucker who had ever lived. You jealous faggots seriously hate me because I am apparently the last real straight man world wide and plan on killing all women and me and destroying the eco system of Earth all the way. Side note, Chelsea Clinton, go to hell (Jamie Lynn Obertein and check Omega Diamond Jewelers in Cumming, GA. Trump, let’s see your Birth Certificate and Social Security Card.

Anonymous Coward says:

Verizon

We are all as special as every other person on this planet, I am far from fearful of the Unknown I have applied for employment and been for interviews which I do not have any experience in .

Discussing what others have done towards me forcing me on drugs which made me physically sick and still forcing me to do that IS SABOTAGE.
I therefore do not fear the unknown and am just as much a fully Indendant adult as u think you are.

I do not wear any mask no more than others in fact I do not try to sabatage people and their family’s and then where a mask! Sounds like an ex relation of mine! And any discussions I have had have been in defending my case . I am definitely not as narcisstic as you and others are, especially some of the psychologists who get upset when I do use correct terminology because they do want to portray me as intelligent. (Get of your pedestal.)

I brought up 3 children who were all in higher classes when younger but have had to deal a lot with others shite and have had their lives sabotaged at times because of people like you . I have also passed bookkeeping and basic accountancy courses where I have got higher distinction and recently completed my first aid 96 percent. I may not have a degree or be super intelligent,I am at least not a arrogant sabotaging idiot like yourself, I like and love who I am, you will never make me feel inferior.

Donna Steiner says:

Recording without knowledge

A girlfriend of a disgruntled ex employee came into my flower shop today and was calling me names and trying to instigate an explosive situation to use against me in court. After calling myself and another employee bit—es and the employee asking her if she had just called her one and what she was going to do to her, the employee saw the girl was recording the situation. Is this legal?

Michelle Serletti says:

Recording private conversations

My niece has an 8yr old.DCF came yesterday police as well because they claim that have recordings of her yelling /swearing at her child.The police claim they are getting a warrant.How do they know who she was speaking to could have been on phone and has nothing to do with the child then what

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