Dish Network Lies About Having 200 HD Channels, Hopes Nobody Notices
from the your-customers-can-count-you-know dept
For several years TV carriers have enjoyed bickering over which company has the most HD channels, in part because it creates a debate focused on perceived value — and steers the conversation away from who offers the lowest prices (or the fact that companies seem to impose annual or bi-annual TV hikes in unison). Carriers only just recently surpassed the 100 HD channel count, so it was surprising this week when Dish Network suddenly and proudly announced that the company was the first to pass the 200 HD channel mark — insisting "only DISH Network has delivered" on this supposedly-epic promise. Except amusingly, Dish Network didn’t bother to include a full list of the channels they added, and when reporters and bloggers on the TV/telecom beat started asking Dish questions, the company started getting a little bit uncomfortable:
"I asked Dish Network’s PR department for a list of the 200 HD channels, numbered from 1 to 200. Not too surprising, the company was evasive, saying the 200 HD channels could be found at its web site. However, when I told them I could not locate more than around 130 HD channels listed at DishNetwork.com, the company’s PR department got even more evasive — and started to act a bit strange. At one point, a company spokeswoman said she could give me a breakdown of the 200 HD channels on "background only," meaning I couldn’t attribute the information to Dish Network."
As it turns out, Dish’s marketing department had gotten creative — and was suddenly counting 57 different On Demand movie titles as"channels" (the Alvin & The Chipmunks 2 channel, anyone?) and just hoped that nobody would notice. So instead of being seen as the TV operator that offers the most HD channels, Dish Network is now being seen as the TV operator who assumes everybody is stupid, which we’ll assume wasn’t what the company’s PR department was aiming for.
Filed Under: hd, television
Companies: dish network
Comments on “Dish Network Lies About Having 200 HD Channels, Hopes Nobody Notices”
200hd channels could be 199 on demand channels and 1 broadcast channel, and still be 200 channels.
Re: Re:
right…except thats 200 channels, not 200 HD channels…which is what theyre advertising
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the movies are in hd. you have to tune to a specific channel to watch them. thus 200 hd channels. they didnt say 200 hd broadcast channels. i am surprised the masnick allowed one of his underlings to write a story title that is so actionable.
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I’ve not seen the original ads, so here’s the major question – were they saying that they simply offered 200 HD channels, or that 200 HD channels were included in the package? If the latter, it’s highly questionable whether PPV channels that you have to pay for are “included”.
Besides, either way it’s just the usual misleading marketing bull. Offering 200 channels then saying you have to pay extra for a full quarter of them after the fact is highly misleading, whether they’re *technically* correct or not.
Re: Re: Re:2 Re:
I think advertising 200 HD channels, in this case, sounds true. The ad is to make claim to the most choice, the most system capacity. And there are, in fact, 200 entirely different streams of HD content at any given time.
Re: Re: Re: Re:
That’s a very loose definition of “channel.” In fact, these PPV “channels” just show the same movie all day, week, month, so it’s hard to call that a channel.
Either way, even if this could be categorized as not lying, it’s certainly misleading.
Re: Re: Re:2 Re:
“That’s a very loose definition of “channel.” In fact, these PPV “channels” just show the same movie all day, week, month, so it’s hard to call that a channel. “
It may be a different type, but technically that sort of PPV is still a channel. Video on demand, however, is definitely not a channel.
Re: Re: Re:3 Re:
I agree that on demand isn’t a ‘channel’
Lets make a deal, if they’re willing to list the full monthly price for these 200 HD ‘channels’ then they can call them channels.
30 days * 57 on demand channels * 3.99 per movie * ~12 movies per day + 80 for the other channels.
So it would cost $81954 a month for those 200 HD channels
Re: Re: Re:4 Re:
Ooh! I want that complete package!
Consistency FTW!
Re: Re: Re:2 Re:
“That’s a very loose definition of “channel.”
I don’t think it’s a loose definition. To me, a channel can be defined two ways:
1) A finite, defined frequency band that carries a distinct flow of information, data, media, or content. This frequency can be selectively tuned by a receiving device.
2) A distinct content option that I can choose from my TV/XM radio/Radio/etc. for which the content is different than the other options.
No part of that requires that it be included or free to be considered a channel. If the content is a single movie repeating itself, it would still count as a channel to me since at any given time the content is still unique.
Re: Re: Re: Re:
“the movies are in hd. you have to tune to a specific channel to watch them.”
Do you? The article states ‘On Demand’ which implies that there is no specific channel. What you describe doesn’t sound like a true on demand service.
Re: Re: Re:2 Re:
“Do you? The article states ‘On Demand’ which implies that there is no specific channel. What you describe doesn’t sound like a true on demand service.”
To answer my own question, the linked article clearly states that the movies are preloaded onto the DVR. If they’re channels then I have the Sita Sings The Blues channel on my computer.
Re: Re: Re:3 Re:
if you have to dial up a channel number to get to them, then they are a channel. most ppv channels have the same movie playing over and over again. if you read the linked article closely he uses a very strict definition of channel. where channel can just be separately sourced material. does xm have actual channels or just seperately sourced material?
Re: Re: Re:4 Re:
A CHANNEL ISN’T ONE SHOW PLAYED OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN, THAT’S SILLY!
Re: Re: Re:5 Re:
OK, how do you define channel. It seems like you are using some qualitative and subjective analysis of the content variety and quality. I don’t think that is a good way to evaluate.
Comedy Central repeats the Daily Show about four times a day, and also shows repeats of older episodes. Does it count as a channel by your definition? Fox news repeats the same talking points all day, do they count?
Most channels DON’T show original content 24/7. All use some amount of repeats. So where is the threshold when a channel loses channel status because it repeats too quickly?
Re: Re: Re:4 Re:
“if you have to dial up a channel number to get to them, then they are a channel. most ppv channels have the same movie playing over and over again. if you read the linked article closely he uses a very strict definition of channel. where channel can just be separately sourced material. does xm have actual channels or just seperately sourced material?”
I was using various easily accessible dictionary definitions of channel and the material in question fits absolutely none of them. If you have a more applicable definition feel free to cite a source.
Re: Re: Re: Re:
Tam, please don’t ever go away. I love it when people throw around legal-sounding terms like “actionable”. Do you have a problem with the little story icon that says SCAM! too?
As far as the actual “actionable” word, if a salesman told you that you were getting 200 channels and (insert large portion here) were PPV and (insert large portion here) were “On Demand”, anyone with sense would call bullshit. Lawyers and Judges may or may not be included in that category.
FYI, the On Demand function is like paying to use a special DVR function. On Demand is not the same as Pay Per View.
Re: Re: Re:2 Re:
“if a salesman told you that you were getting 200 channels and (insert large portion here) were PPV and (insert large portion here) were “On Demand”, anyone with sense would call bullshit”
Not me, and I have some sense. Dish’s claims fits my technical and consumer definition of a channel. And as a customer, I should always exercise some Caveat Emptor. It’s not like it would be hard to check: Do they have the HD channels you want, or not? I also look inside the carton of eggs before I buy it from Safeway. Why not, if I don’t kick the tires a little, and find out what those 200 channels are, then that’s my fault.
Re: Re: Re:3 Re:
“Dish’s claims fits my technical and consumer definition of a channel.”
How? So far the only argument to that point appears to be that the buttons on peoples remote controls are labelled as channels, which implies that should you assign a channel to the off button then that would count too.
Re: Re: Re:4 Re:
To me, a channel can be defined two ways:
1) A finite, defined frequency band that carries a distinct flow of information, data, media, or content. This frequency can be selectively tuned by a receiving device.
2) A distinct content option that I can choose from my TV/XM radio/Radio/etc. for which the content is different than the other options.
Re: Re: Re:5 Re:
“2) A distinct content option that I can choose from my TV/XM radio/Radio/etc. for which the content is different than the other options.”
Fits my ‘off button’ theory neatly. Joking aside, if true video on demand counts under your definition then any device with internet access would have as many ‘channels’ as there are videos on the internet. All you’d have to do is automatically assign them a number.
Well they do think they can . . .
. . . pass off the recent pricing increase as a “fee” increase and not a pricing increase that has nothing to do with their lowest price in the market.
picture quality is what matters, not channels count
For some reason TV providers think all that matters is quantity, not quality. I don’t care how many channels you got if they look like crap. Many are junk anyway, or duplicates in different time zones. Both Dish and Directv compress the signal too much to cram in more channels, creating artifacts in the picture. Directv compresses less than Dish though. I laugh at the Dish commercial that says “it’s all the same TV, so why pay more?” Sure if you have a blurry old TV it might look the same. But many people now have good enough TV to see the faults in a overcompressed channel. Maybe it’s time to cut a few channels and start competing on quality.
Re: picture quality is what matters, not channels count
>For some reason TV providers think all
>that matters is quantity, not quality.
Uh, no. You have it backwards. Many customers think the number of channels is important, and therefore they are marketing to that demand.
99 channels but the b***h network ain't one...
“Dish Network is now being seen as THE TV operator who assumes everybody is stupid”
That’ll tick off the cable company Indeed, that’s their bag of peaches!
Instead of more channels, how about some channels with something worth watching?
Re: 99 channels but the b***h network ain't one...
Hate to break it to ya, but all advertising is BS.
Welcome to the real world.
Re: Re: 99 channels but the b***h network ain't one...
You get a Reality Checkhttp://www.nlsadd.com/files/images/NLYS-Reality-Check.jpg
Re: Re: 99 channels but the b***h network ain't one...
The fact that we know all advertising is BS has nothing to do with the fact that we must never cease to point out the BS when we see it.
Welcome to the realm of the critical facility and information sharing.
Seems it’s happnning again. How many networks have you seen like this… claiming over 1000 channels and what so ever.
Don’t take it to personall..
I avoid the controversy
I have 1 channel and love it. It’s called the “DVD” channel and shows what ever I put in my DVD – totally on demand – and pretty cheap too.
I don’t need “Modern Family” or “Chuck” or “Archer” in HD, so I am happy to watch those on Hulu.
Boggles my mind why anyone would pay a subscription fee just to watch TV. But hey – it’s your $600/year.
-CF
Re: I avoid the controversy
Good ol’ Channel Input-1. My favorite channel!
“…Alvin and the Chipmunks 2 channel, anyone?…”
Look, if Dish can provide me with a 24/7 Squeakuel channel, I’m IN.
Pulling a Dish
This is pervasive, at least in American culture. The same thing goes on with our Politicians here and in Business.
For instance they spent 700 Billion with a B and said it created 50 x the amount of real jobs they were claiming.
When the new regime was pressured for answers about it, they pulled a Dish i.e. they got defensive and acted like the people asking the questions were being idiots and how dare they. LOL It does not matter if some jobs were counted 20 or 30 times or that each new job could also be an old job, or that it cost 4 million for each new $50,000 job or something silly like that.
Be it Politicians or Dish, when they get busted, they act like the person asking a common sense question is the one who did wrong.
Both will find out that you can fool some of the consumers some of the time, but you can’t fool them all of the time.
To all of the Dish’s out there, lying, or pulling a Dish in the day and age of the Internet is a truly foolish thing to do, as not all consumers are as stupid and plebeian as your elitist minds would believe.
People will vote with their pocket book and at the ballot box unless they are forced to do otherwise by those very same people that pull a “Dish”. 🙂
Former employee
As a former employee, this isn’t the only thing they lie about. Just ask Charlie Ergen what his turnover rate is or the next time you have cable/Sat installed, ask the installer what they think of the company.
bunch of thieves
dish network is comprised of a bunch of thieves … the overcharged my amex for the boxes that had already been returned. & then they refused to return the boxes to me as they were the sole “owners”
The MEDIA is LYING
No surprise that the media is lying. Many of them are in bed with DirecTV anyway. DISH does have all 205 (to be exact) channels posted on their site at the link above. Compare that with DirecTV’s 129 (though they claim OVER 130). Both providers are including the PPV channels because they are true channels that broadcast 24/7, it’s just that they broadcast the same title on re-run for a period of weeks, then offer another title. These ppv channels (called “cinema” at both providers) ARE channels that take up broadcasting bandwidth. I wonder why nobody has done a complete side by side comparison?! That’s what DISH is saying…compare for yourself. And DirecTV is saying don’t compare, they’re lying.
Re: The MEDIA is LYING
How’s the weather in the PR department?
Re: Re: The MEDIA is LYING
Now if you had asked, “How’s the weather in the lying sack of shit / sleazy scumbag department?” I would have understood the question much more quickly.
Re: Re: Re: The MEDIA is LYING
I don’t know about the title of that guys post, I don’t get how the “media is lying”. But what about his comment is wrong?
If Dish can broadcast 200 separate feeds of HD content, each one distinct, that simply meets the definition of “200 HD channels.”
They are advertising that they have a greater system capacity than their competitors. That is a valid competitive differentiator. I don’t know if they do it with more compression that degrades the images, or not. But all things equal, more channels is better.
Making a value judgement on the content (re Alvin & Chipmunks) is irrelevant. The fact that it is PPV, and costs more is also irrelevant – the ad isn’t talking price or content quality, it’s talking system capacity and channel choice.
Obviously, they spin it in a way that makes them look good. Hopefully this isn’t the first time people here have been subjected to a PR angle that cast the advertiser in a positive light. So long as it’s true, why are we debating it?
Re: Re: Re:2 The MEDIA is LYING
“If Dish can broadcast 200 separate feeds of HD content, each one distinct, that simply meets the definition of “200 HD channels.”‘
That isn’t what they are doing. The movies are not even broadcast, they come preloaded on the DVR device.
Re: Re: Re:3 The MEDIA is LYING
Hmmm. I don’t know how Dish does HD PPV. When I had Dish years ago, the PPV was sent over the air in real time. And this entire thread from original article on casts it as if they were sent in real time. But if you’re right, then obviously they are not channels.
Re: Re: Re:4 The MEDIA is LYING
“Hmmm. I don’t know how Dish does HD PPV. When I had Dish years ago, the PPV was sent over the air in real time. And this entire thread from original article on casts it as if they were sent in real time. But if you’re right, then obviously they are not channels.”
From the linked article: “Finally, late in the day, Dish Network fessed up to Multichannel News that the 200 HD channel count included 57 HD PPV titles that were only available on the company’s new VIP 922 SlingLoaded DVR. The movies are preloaded on the new DVR, which was introduced just a few weeks ago.”
Yeah…the link you provided shows…132 channels, and calls them “the full list.”
It will take a while...
to get to 200 HD channels they are just releasing the ads for the future, for when they do have 200 HD broadcast channels.
Come on guys this is them giving us time travel capabilities!
Time well spent
If this is the sort of thing that bothers people enough to actively pursue answers and relay that information to the masses, then I think it is time to turn the damn tv off.
First they waste time watching it, then they waste time “investigating” 200 worthless channels, then I waste time writing this, and the kicker, you wasted time reading it.
Though in reality, you just learned more from this post then an entire season of American Idol, Lost and whatever the hell else tops the charts nowadays combined.
Get off my lawn.
Re: Time well spent
You’re just bitter because you haven’t been watching ABCs newest geek drama Big Bang Theory! It’s the ultimate blend of geekiness and comedy for Geeks Like Us(TM)!
Ugh, that hurt to type…
Re: Re: Time well spent
I came for the geekiness, but I left wanting to slit my wrists with a pocket protector. Maybe if ABC created the All-Big-Bang-All-The-Time HD channel, I’d be happy.
i have one question when is singal ever gonna come back
please i want ansewers bad it has been ten months and
nothing to watch at night i miss my shows a lot please
give some answers i am begging
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Sir,
We are here, ready to help. Please contact our Techdirt support lines for all of your:
– satellite TV connection problems
– Amazon Prime payment and billing issues
– Funny cat web video fan mail
Operators are standing by ready for your call.
Re: No signal for 10 months?
Why are you here complaining about that. Call dish, get them to fix your signal.
The MEDIA is LYING
“How’s the weather in the PR department?”
Cloudy with a 100% chance of a loss of a TiVo patent lawsuit.
@Derek
“I think advertising 200 HD channels, in this case, sounds true.”
What? It may be true “at times” but come on, Derek. It sure is deceptive.
It’s like a car company saying a will car always get “Highway Mileage”.
Re: @Derek
It’s barely deceptive. Fits into the normal spin of marketing. People should have filters to assume that advertising is casting the advertiser in as positive a light as possible, while not outright lying.
Similarly, Tag body spray doesn’t drive the women wild.
Derek,
You’re confusing HD Programming and HD Content with HD Channels. Dish Network is advertising “Channels”. There is a difference.
“Why not, if I don’t kick the tires a little, and find out what those 200 channels are, then that’s my fault.”
What’s Dish Network’s return policy if you find out the advertising wasn’t what you expected?
TAM
Wow. I feel like TAM. I’ve found myself disagreeing with the community here a few times this month.
Next thing, I’ll be playing golf with Ronald J Riley.
Re: TAM
Next thing, I’ll be playing golf with Ronald J Riley.
Only if you patented golf.
satellite TV connection problems
million monkeys banging on a million typewriters will eventually …. nah nevermind..
Let me try to clear things up for you, Derek-
You seem to have a measuring stick which measures things in terms of HD Content. Then, using your logic, DishNetwork should say “We have 9,000 HD Shows every day” But they don’t, they say “Channels” which is fundamentally a different way to measure things.
I don’t understand why this is so difficult for you to understand.
Derek's interwebs is serious business
“Please contact our Techdirt support lines for all of your […] Funny cat web video fan mail”
Thanks for letting us know that we can lump ‘Funny cat web videos’ along with your ‘serious’ analysis. Sure is telling of the quality of your discussion.
Directv does the same thing
Directv counts PPV, limited area sports networks and VOD. What they claim to be 130 HD channels are just that channels. Dish does have more HD and the quality is the same at directv. Who cares what they say, they both twist the truth.
And Time Warner as well as Direct TV have NEVER manipulated wording or had ‘slightly’ inaccurate facts in their advertising, right?
Comcast has been usnig this bs counting "method" for years
Comcast has been using this b.s. method of counting “channels” for several years. DirecTV even has parody commercials poking fun at “the cable company” for it.
Lies about HD channels
Why is this any different from any cable provider? Check it out for yourself. DirecTV, Comcast, AT&T do the same thing. They list on demand titles as HD Channels. Dish Network is simply the latest to use this gimick.
People still pay for TV in the US?
Cable and Satellite are blatant rip offs to consumers at over $500 + a year to have the privilege to pay to watch commercials. Wake up
rip off
If you have dish now, and ever wish to change companies, which I have just completed, they charge you for a box and label to send back your boxes, remotes and sim card. If they do not recieve them, they charge your account on file up to $400.00….
And, when you ask questions, and get upset over the charges you get put on hold and get a supervisor on the line telling you what a rotten person you are, and that you should never insult anyone over the phone.
I asked them where they were, and I would be glad to come in person and insult them, but was hung up on.
BE WARE!!!!
CHEAPEST WAY TO GET TV
The dish is overpriced garbage this is the cheapest and best way to go I dont care what anybody says CLICK HERE
They also lie about the cost being $25 a month. I pay over 40 for a basic package.
They also lie about the cost being $25 a month. I pay over 40 for a basic package.
Are you serious? Come on.....
I was reading through all the posts and I am a little speechless at the moment! DISH Network goes to great lengths to provide a service that doesn’t break the bank. The $24.99 package is the price of the America’s Top 120 with the new customer promotional discount. Obviously if you decide to have 4 receivers and buy additional premium channels then your price will be more. Further more, if you are having an issue with your satellite signal, the technical support department is fantastic at troubleshooting the issue to resolution. I have never had a problem getting an issue resolved. Working for DISH has given me a great look into all the different technology and effort that goes into making this service possible. I was a customer long before I was part of the team and I have been really impressed with the equipment that is available, especially now with products like the Sling Adapter and the Logitech Revue. This is technology at it’s finest and a class A customer service department to top it off!
Wondering If FTC Is Aware of This?
I’m surprised people haven’t reported Dish Network to the FTC (Federal Trade Commission) for false advertising, or maybe they have already.
DirecTV 10 Times Better Than Dish Network !!!
I was originally going to get Dish Nework because I didn’t know any better at the time. Luckily there were too many trees blocking their LOW IN THE SKY TWO SATELLITES !!
I found out later that they didn’t carry the YES Network (and they still don’t), and I need my Yankees !!!
Now the are just plain LYING about their HD service, 24 or their “HD CHANNELS” are only in HD PART TIME !!!! DirecTV has 170 HD Channels ALL HD ALL THE TIME !!
DirecTV is 10 Times better than anything else for TV !!! Too bad they don’t have Internet !! The service NEVER GOES DOWN (sometimes in a storm it goes out for a little while) and the Customer Service is Excellent !!!
Too bad Dish Network is able to FLAT OUT LIE to people on TV !!! Ford is doing the SAME THING !!! Whatever happened to “truth in advertising” ????
DIRECTV TOTALLY HAS THE BEST TECHNOLOGY OUT THERE, THE SERVICE NEVER CONKS OUT !!!! PLUS I ONLY NEED ONE DISH !!!!!!
Dish Network just has to LIE! Nature of the BEAST
I have never, in my life, come across such a low life pack of deceptive, evil liars. It?s as if they just have to lie with each breath. Not even a godless politician lies as foul and as much as the trash at Dish Network. That?s why I changed my credit card number and do paperless billing with these lying terrorists. Why would anyone trust such a load of godless liars as these with your credit card number? You might as well give your number to, Satin or any other type of politician. And NEVER, EVER call these lying trash bastards because with each call, you automatically set an upgrade in motion that you play hell getting off.
These bastards are the lowest form of puke on the earth. Even lower than politicians and Bill Collecting Nazis.
DO NOT DO BUSINESS WITH D I S H N E T W O R K!!!
Dish does have more hd channels
I had to move to Directv because they have more international channels. But Dish had a lot lot more HD then Directv does. plus I hate directv no hd movies like dish had no quality. CABLE is the best not to manny wires straight to your home one line instead of a octopussy wiring outside. GO with cable same programming better reliablity.
Lonch
Choice 1…….2 Choice 2…….13
The most hd channels
That is so funny, because I have gone in and counted all my hd channels and there is over 212 channels
Re:
If you are located on the edge of dishnetwork spot beam forget about local networks working in HD in the day time