Bridging The Tech Gender Gap
from the where-are-all-the-women dept
Ask any programmer or computer science major about the number of women in their field, and you will undoubtedly arrive at the same conclusion: computer programming is dominated by males. In the past, attempts like female-only computer camps have been made to attract women to the field, but to this date, nothing seems to have helped.
Well, some computer science researchers postulate that the design of software itself may contribute to the male-bias seen in computer programming. In an experiment, participants were asked to find and fix errors in a spreadsheet. Researchers found that men were more likely to use advanced “debugging” features of the software, whereas women were more likely to edit formulas one by one. Then, they introduced a differently designed debugging tool that was specifically designed to appeal to women. Unsurprisingly, women used the debugging tool more. While this is valuable research, it does seem a bit obvious. Software needs to be designed to better suit the entire userbase, and if a large set of people are not using the software properly, then improvements definitely need to be made. These differences may exist not only across genders, but across cultures, socioeconomic levels and ages. But, to automatically think that software design causes the dearth of female programmers could be a stretch. That said, the gender gap is clearly an issue, and the more quickly we figure out the cause the better.
Perhaps there is a causal relationship in the ‘stupid’ male geek culture that exists in the profession. As Sir Tim Berners-Lee points out, programming culture can alienate people from working in the profession, particularly women. In one example, an academic who went through a sex change submitted the same academic papers to a research facility under both identities: the papers from a man were accepted, but the ones from a woman were rejected. The gender gap is not an insurmountable issue, computer science graduates in Singapore, Malaysia and Thailand are around 50 percent women; in the US, more women are entering universities than men right now, so now is a great time to figure out if we need to balance this tech divide. I’m sure engineer dudes everywhere would appreciate some more smart women amongst their midst.
Filed Under: women programming
Comments on “Bridging The Tech Gender Gap”
You really do have to be careful when you make these kind of changes though. Men and women are different. We see this in the classroom in terms of how boys and girls are taught. Back in the 50’s, schools changed how learning happened, making it easier for girls to learn. What they didn’t know (or care) was how this affected boys. Now classroom learning is right for girls yet hurts our boys. Girls don’t answer questions right away, so teachers waited to choose that raised hand, allowing the girls time. This frustrated the boys. Boys don’t like to sit still, while girls are perfectly happy to sit at their desk, sit still and quiet. Making boys do this frustrates them and gets them in trouble.
There are schools that have boys only classes and girls only classes. There are no desks or chairs in the boys class, there are in girls classes. In both cases, the scores went up for both.
Men and women think and learn differently, sometimes one size fits all really doesn’t.
How do you define Computer Science?
“Computer Science” does not mean the same thing in Asia as it does in the US. In Asia, a “computer science degree” may mean a few courses in spreadsheets or other software, something we would call a community college certificate here.
If we apply the same definition to the US workforce, then it can be easily shown that the “majority of computer science graduates are women”.
My observations...
I am a software developer and have worked with women in several different positions and over a number of years. The reasons I have heard for women not wanting to enter the field or for leaving the field seem to revolve around two key things: work environment and schedule.
Some of the women I have worked with or known who were in school for computer science dropped it when they started to enter the work environment. The biggest complaint was that they didn’t like working in relative isolation. Most of the ones that I knew who quit were not able to function without social interaction. Likewise, the women I know who excel in the computer fields are very introverted, and significantly less dependent on social interaction.
Another big factor I have noticed is that a lot of the women in the field hate the long hours. Most companies will have development teams working 60-80 hour weeks on a regular basis. In fact, this is one of the biggest reasons I hear for women losing interest in the field after attaining a degree and entering the field. The schedules are far less flexible then other fields as well.
Now, I am not saying that either of those reasons are somehow tied to gender, but they are two of the primary reasons that I have observed. I think the difference between the gender gap in Thailand and the United States rests with our cultural differences.
Re: My observations...
The reasons I have heard for women not wanting to enter the field or for leaving the field seem to revolve around two key things: work environment and schedule.
It was pretty hard to engage in a conversation with any of my classmates when I went to school. The guys seemed to fear me more than want to talk geek, which is what I wanted. I finally got a few to open up though and it made things better. When I went to work I actually had to relocate myself to be around some noise, I have trouble working in complete quite. The key factor is to find a balance at work.
The schedule was extremely difficult to get used to. I think women have a lot to do anyway (get up, get the kids ready (if you have them), go to work, come home, cook dinner, clean, take a shower, go to bed…). I’m not trying to be sexist to my gender or anything, but we are expected to keep to household running smoothly and long work hours really cut into that. Also, if you have children the employers in the field tend to be inflexible no matter the circumstance (which is horrible if there are dentist appointments, etc.)
I think men and women can work in the field just fine together, but employers have to do there part. More flexibility and group the socialites away from the loners. Usually the employers of the field are used to dealing with male staff only. They can accommodate women, they just need to change a few things first.
Re: Re: My observations...
I find it somewhat unlikely that any female in a computer science classroom had a hard time getting males to talk to her, “fear” or not. 😛
I’m sure I’d have some personal experiences to back this up, had there been any in my college classrooms. 🙁
Re: Re: My observations...
Here’s a quick question, do you have more male friends or female friends? I have noticed a lot of the women that I have worked with that excel in computers actually prefer the company of male friends, or at a minimum do not consider themselves “girly” by the societal norm.
Re: Re: Re: My observations...
Casper, I think you may have a point. In my situation, anyway, you do. I’m a female Network Admin and find that I prefer males as friends. Men can be easier to get along with, are just more easy going, and expect less from you than girlfriends do.
The other observation you made earlier about techie women being introverted is correct for me, too. I’m introverted and don’t need the “social interaction” at work, in fact, I’d rather not be around people talking all the time, as it just distracts me. I like it quiet!
Re: Re: Re: My observations...
I have noticed a lot of the women that I have worked with that excel in computers actually prefer the company of male friends, or at a minimum do not consider themselves “girly” by the societal norm.
I would say it is a 50/50 split. Sometimes I need to hange out with the girls, sometimes with the boys. As far as being “girly” I’m not a high-maintenance silicon imitation of the female race, but I do enjoy “girly” activities like sewing, cooking, and shopping.
Logic
How about the reality that computers and software are based in logic, and women are not?
Re: Logic
How about the reality that computers and software are based in logic, and women are not?
A man created Windows….nuff’ said.
Re: Re: Logic
Ahem — the geek-man world has repeatedly apologized for whomever it was that created Windows.
WHAT!?!WHAT?!?WHAT?!!!
men …. and women … are …. DIFFERENT ?
No! No! NOOO!!!! This just can’t be …
Oh Rhett … where shall I go ? what shall I do ?
(yeah, so I’m an annoying slob … I know …)
My perspective as a female programmer
I personally have never been put off from programming by anything within the field. I do think that the current notion of a computer science degree needs a massive overhaul, but that’s just because it’s dreadfully mismatched to what someone planning to work as a programmer in the real world needs to learn, which is a whole other discussion.
I have, however, been subjected to constant pressure from many other directions. When I was a kid, all my teachers were firm that boys were good at math and not English, and girls were good at English and not math, the fact that I could sleep through math class and then outscore all the boys on the test notwithstanding. Luckily, I hated school and had no respect for my teachers, so what they thought didn’t affect me.
If you look at how computer people are depicted in popular culture, you will see that they are nearly 100% male.
And then you get stuff like the first comment here, where we’re back to “girls can’t do math” but with alleged scientific evidence behind it. I have two main counter-arguments:
#1: Even if you can prove a general difference between the sexes, it’s an average which tells you nothing at all about a specific individual.
#2: There is steadily accumulating evidence that those long-observed differences between genders are culturally influenced. Every year there are new discoveries about how malleable the brain is in response to culture and how easily it can be influenced by negative stereotypes. For instance, here’s something on spacial ability being differentiated by cultural practices. Another great recent result (sorry, don’t have a citation now) is showing that filling out personal information (like gender) after a standardized math test rather than before eliminates the gender difference in scores.
Anyway, that’s my experience– I’m sure they vary.
Re: My perspective as a female programmer
There is steadily accumulating evidence that those long-observed differences between genders are culturally influenced.
I completely agree. It seems to me that although it may be quite true that men and women learn differently, there is also significant cultural pressure for men and women to assume different roles.
As much as anecdotal evidence matters, my own experience is similar. I graduated with bachelors in both math and cs from a school with an undergrad population that was approximately 70% female. I was one of only a HANDFUL of female students in either major. Although it’s not really relevant, personally I’m pretty outgoing and didn’t have any trouble interacting with the guys in my classes.
What I feel is more telling is that the vast majority of female students (approx. 8/10) majoring in math were doing so using the “math education” track, with the intent of going on to teaching careers. (Just for some background: the math major was structured along different “tracks” which were just slightly different sets of courses which all fulfilled the math departments’ requirements. These included pure math, applied math, math education, etc.) Education is a traditionally acceptable female occupation, and it seems to me that that may be why many women still feel drawn to it.
Of course, I haven’t seen much valid study into this phenomenon. But, I wanted to add another female perspective to what, interestingly enough, seems to be mostly a male conversation. Of course, that’s harder to tell online. 😉
Why
I’ve worked with many women in IT and I don’t care what a coworker’s gender is. But I simply don’t understand: Why is it a requirement that there be a balance of men and women in IT?
I have never seen a cry for gender balance in “sanitation engineering” or “auto repair” or “cosmetic sales” or any of thousands of other professions (some attract more women, some attract more men). Why the attention on IT?
If women are discriminated against, well fine; fix THAT. But in the many studies done on the subject, the key factor is simply that (as a generality) women don’t like IT as much as men do.
Well, if women don’t like to work in IT, why force them to do it? Why is it a REQUIREMENT that there be a balance?
You hear of “solutions” to make IT more “attractive to women”. WHY? Why is this a problem that needs so much attention and work. If a woman doesn’t like working in IT, we should force her or trick her into going into it anyway?
Makes no sense.
Re: Why
No one really understands this, it is one of those things that sounded good at the time. It actually causes all kinds of problems when you have a field that has lower numbers of qualified people of a specific gender, yet companies feel compelled to hire a certain number. If there are only x number of qualified people of a gender, hiring x*2 of that gender will always cause problems. Usually the problems manifest as disputes between the people that were really qualified and the people that were hired as tokens to make the stats look better. It really applies for both genders. There are many examples of fields that are female dominated and people trying to hire random male staff to balance the equation.
Re: Why
Milton,
The reason it’s important to have more women doing IT has little to do with social justice or equality; it’s because IT is an innovative occupation, one in which the people who do it are creating products and services that ALL of us — men and women — are going to use. Did you know that the first voicemail systems created in the 1960s hung up on women? Because they were created and tested by men, they didn’t recognize the octaves of a woman’s voice. We can’t afford to keep creating technology without the input of half our population.
Re: Re: Why
If the world had been built by women…
“Welcome to the voicemail system.”
“Your hair looks nice today”
“You have 2 new voicemails”
“Brad and Angelina are fighting”
“Press 1 to review your messages”
“Press 2 to vent about your boyfriend”
“Press 3 for today’s skincare tips”
…
btw, women weren’t working in the 1960s – it wasn’t an oversight that the voicemail hung up on the women, it was by design. The company knew that the call could be nothing but a distraction and promptly discarded it.
Why are women needed in IT? Easy, women are not needed. Good smart people are needed. As women make up about half the population, if women don’t go into IT, then the field is limiting itself to only picking from half the population.
Re: Why do we even care?
So… why, exactly, are we trying to get women into IT fields? They can choose what they want to do and I really don’t think there is any more discrimination than a guy getting a degree in nursing. What about electricians, carpenters, and truck drivers? Those are fields made up of between 0-1% women. Maybe if women were in those professions we would have different standards and methods. Same goes for men in women dominated fields. Why do we always try and even things out and make things fair? WHO CARES! It all works itself out. Supply and demand.
Re: Why
This is a bogus argument. It isn’t the IT industry that is limiting itself. People usually gravitate to work they want to do, or at least, don’t hate.
Just because women are smart, do we force them to go into IT?
Don’t be silly.
More to it
I am an Engineering major and the thing I notice is that women tend not to understand what engineering or computer science is. When I tell a women that I am an engineer I often get the same question “What do they do? Like drive trains?” And then it takes awhile to explain that engineering is about applying mathematics to solve problems. What I am getting at is that men seem to enjoy gadgets and the things that make them work but women see them as “thingys” and couldn’t care less. Now this is not always the case but it tends to hold true for what appears to be the majority.
Re: More to it
Dear John,
Thanks gobs for the fabuli-cious dinner! And thanks sooooo much 🙂 for expaining all that engineering junk so that even I can understand(LOL!!!!!LOL!!!). Except, now I forgot all the big words that you used, and so I’m gonna hafta read the dictionary, or something. Anyways, my mom’s calling me, so I gotta go.
Good luck with whatever that engineering-thingy-stuff is, maybe I’ll learn more about it next year in 7th grade.
BFF,
Tammi
Women in IT
I have been in the field since 1988. I started taking extra classes in 1994. I would be the only girl in the class. I even had one teacher blush every time I asked a question. I found it hard to work with a partner that would sit there and smell me all the time (no joke)
It’s hard to be in a geeky world if your not a geek. Women do handle pressure well and can multitask like nobody’s business. Natural managers 🙂
Re: Women in IT
Re: Trish
Why is it women can make broad sexist claims like “women do handle pressure well and can multitask like nobody’s business. Natural managers”, and no one challenges them on it?
This is no different than all of the claims men have been making for years that they are more suited for certain things, engineering apparently being one of them based on the number of men vs. women in the field.
Re: Re: Women in IT
Why is it women can make broad sexist claims like “women do handle pressure well and can multitask like nobody’s business. Natural managers”, and no one challenges them on it?
Because there’s no such thing as a sexist woman. Kind of like there’s no such thing as a racist racial minority. Don’t you know anything?
Re: Women in IT
Trish, don’t get too inflated on your looks, as they might not be as much as you think.
I remember being a freshman on the engineering campus, where the ratio was about 15:1. There was maybe like, 1 truly hot girl out of 5000 students. By the time first semister was through, you realized that either you had to drop your standards to a new low, or find other things to do, like drink beer and take it to a new level.
I’d wake up with my hangover and walk around campus… You’d see the decent looking guys who had given up – walking around in shame with their heads low, hand in hand with some wilderbeast who had even put on another 15 lbs. I felt ashamed for them. Sure, my liver might be swollen, and i’m not getting any action, but I don’t have to take orders from THAT.
I’m older and married now, but the same principle applies. At all the places i’ve worked i start to look forward to seeing some girls that otherwise I wouldn’t spit on. Maybe one has a good chest, or another one – while butt ugly – might have a great ass. Usually if you could make a frankenchick out of all the girls at work, you could net sum one good looking broad.
Re: Re: Women in IT
There was maybe like, 1 truly hot girl out of 5000 students. By the time first semister was through, you realized that either you had to drop your standards to a new low, or find other things to do, like drink beer and take it to a new level.
Because what REALLY matters is how a woman looks…
Re: Re: Re: Women in IT
U think some dork was sniffing Trish because he thought she was smart?
Re: Re: Re:2 Women in IT
Maybe she smells good…
When my daughters were young, I was determined that they would not be pushed into a “female” mindset. I bought them Tonka trucks and other “male” toys. They never touched them, but they were facinated with makeup and pretty dresses. Was it because of a difference in the sexes or were they just emulating their mother (who also had no interest in anything “male”)?
Petr顠Mitchell, I said nothing about the ability of women or men in terms of mastering different skills, math being one of them. I stated that women and men learn differently (on average) and that there are better ways to teach that helps the different sexes take advantage of their learning.
Technically adept people...
I think the point of this article is that women who are technically adept tend to be “pushed out” of tech fields in a number of different ways.
It’s true that not EVERYONE is going to be good at computer science, male or female. There are both men and women who just don’t “get” computers/technology.
But, the point is that the women who would be great working with technology either are pushed in other directions or don’t feel comfortable/welcome in the field.
Re: Technically adept people...
Here here!
It's less a matter of attracting them
than of them wanting to stay. Can’t blame them.
who cares?
who really cares about the gender gap in the tech world? if you wanna work in a specific field, do it. if ya dont, then dont. but, as someone mentioned…be capable of your job! that should be true no matter what the field.
Do any of you know a woman who built her own compu
I have known so many women programmers from my college and my previous work organisations, but I never heard from anyone of them that they built their own computer (like me and my friends did our first and they were all guys). There could have been at least one female telling me that she has built her own computer. I am not saying that they cannot do it, but none of them did it !! Computer chips are not heavy either.. !!
Re: Do any of you know a woman who built her own c
I have known so many women programmers from my college and my previous work organisations, but I never heard from anyone of them that they built their own computer (like me and my friends did our first and they were all guys). There could have been at least one female telling me that she has built her own computer. I am not saying that they cannot do it, but none of them did it !! Computer chips are not heavy either.. !!
I’ve built my own computers. I’m currently in the process of building my next one from scratch. I also have roomfuls of older computers that I cannibalize and make into linux boxes for friends and relatives. Oh yes, and I’m a girl. 😛
Re: Re: Do any of you know a woman who built her o
Yea, he’s making it sound like us woman are lazy. Not only have I built 4 desktops for myself, I have built 70% of the computers at work. I’ve built servers too, which many men can’t even boast.
Also, most of the computer science students (guys) I went to school with did not build their computers because they wanted to program and not tinker with the inside. I had one CS grad student when I worked IT at my college who didn’t even know how to change his CD burner.
Any fool can build a computer, I’ve seen many of them do it. What counts is having knowledge of the various parts and knowing which ones work the best to achieve the fastest performance and most reliability in the long run (you can’t just throw any old parts together and get an awesome, reliable system).
Yeap
Amen, brother!!!
Yes, we could use a bit more female perspective in the Engineering field…
so fucking what
There are not many female ship welders, either. Things don’t interest people in the same proportions as their societal makeup. Who says they have to? And really, who gives a fuck?
Besides, women still have the option to work or not work. Men do not. I say that makes up for just about everything.
Interesting discussion. I am a Web Software Developer with a B.S. and M.S. in Computer Science… And I am a woman.
I think that Tim Berners-Lee’s statement about programming culture alienating women is rather accurate. All of my university courses were dominated by VERY nerdy guys. Luckily I struck up a friendship with the only other two women in the program (both were attractive, and not hideous like all the women Pro describes). Though most of my friends were male (not CS though), it helped to have other women in the program. I do think our brains function differently from men. Our study groups were integral to us making it through the program successfully.
Aside from the guys in the program, the male professors teaching the courses didn’t help the situation much. My interest in the web focused on both programming and the visual design. Though programming was taught, good visual design was not. This resulted in programs that executed in cmd windows. Not very glamorous. I think that writing programs that functioned well AND looked good may have helped to keep more women from dropping out. I know that there are many more issues at play here that just writing pretty programs, but it would have been nice to have a bit more emphasis placed on the front-end design of the programs. I love how coding works the brain, but I also like focusing on the visual aesthetics (the other two women in the degree were the same way). Maybe schools could focus more on web development that integrates different aspects of good design (programming, usability, look, etc.) in pre-requisite courses where students really make up their minds on whether or not they want to pursue CS.
Just my 2 cents.
Oh and another thing, I really HATE media’s depiction of women in tech fields as freaky goth or emo-type people (NCIS comes to mind). Why does it have to be that way? (I definitely do not fit that mold, and can’t say I’ve run into any women in the field who do.) With so many kids watching TV, I doubt that this helps attract many girls to CS.
Well I’m mostly just having fun with the topic, but in reality, I believe that the idea of ‘forced diversity’ is one of these things that is completely unamerican and is a perversion of the original ideals that this country was founded upon.
Once you understand the concept of a free market, you realize that the way software looks and behaves steers itself. The people that can make the software that way, are the ones that should get paid to do it. It doesn’t matter if they’re black, white, Male or Female. If white males were better at writing software, then the demand should go UP for white males, not down.
I am also amused at how the forced diversity only applies where people decide to point the finger, and not where it really falls flat on it’s face. After all, the NFL is definitely gender biased – we need lots of Female football players and fast.
Pro, it has nothing to do with “forced diversity”.
There is a lack of quality IT workers in America. There are a lack of women in IT. If the industry doesn’t attract women to the field (which is 50% of the population) how can they find workers if they limit the job pool.
It doesn’t matter why women choose to not go into the field, if the industry wants to increase its workforce, it needs to do things that will stop discouraging women from joining.
It has nothing to do with forced diversity and everything to do with attracting talented people. Its not that the industry needs more women, but workers.
Re: Re:
This is where the free market comes in, RandomThoughts. If there were a lack of oranges, the price of an orange would go up until more people decided to grow them – no one would be talking about whether or not the orange had a stem 😉
So do oranges have a stem or women?
Anyway, the market is exactly where this comes in. The industry could raise the pay, making it more successful in attracting talent. Or, it could do things to make the field more attractive to women.
As a manager (or as a human being) not recognizing there are differences is just stupid. There are things you can say to guys that you just wouldn’t say to women. I know there are ways that are effective to communicate with my son that would never work with my daughter.
Recognizing the differences and going with what works improves things all around.
Re: Re:
You’re suggesting that a refrain from harsh language, or decorating an office with flowers is going to attract a surge of qualified women to perhaps go back in time and obtain a technical degree. I disagree.
I’m more inclined to believe that thousands of years of evolution have made a technical position less desirable to a woman versus a man – this is not all inclusive – as I’ve worked with plenty of great female engineers who truly enjoy what they’re doing.
If you’re truly going out of your way to make your positions more attractive for women – instead of defining a position and finding the best people to fill them, then you are lacking the understanding of what will make a company successful in the long term. This strategy will work well for you personally in the short term, but will hurt your company in the long run.
The gender gap is not an insurmountable issue, com
You kidding me? In my (Singapore) uni and the other local unis as well, female to male student ratio would be 1:5 at most => 20%
Pro, your lack of understanding that the labor market is too small and industry needs to grow the pool is what will hurt your company in the long run.
The whole point is that companies can’t find enough talent. If they don’t do things to attract women then they limit the pool to 50% of the pool.
Why would you want to only swim in the shallow end of the pool?
true reason for lack of women?
The kind of inbred sexist doormat mentality that pro exhibits.
I am a technical professional, not scenery to be oggled, smelled or stalked by the male staff (or other female staff). I’m there to do my job, and if it consists of collaborating with others, then they damn well better get over that kind of childish “nice rack” mentality. My rack, none of your damn business, and geeeze, don’t think I care a nanosecond about whether you consider me attractive or ugly.
But the sexist, hostile attitude that you exude is exactly why women will go elsewhere where there is a better environment. And if someone like you managed to make it thru the job screening process by keeping it to yourself, don’t think you can let it “all hang out” out in my shop once you’re hired. But you’d have no trouble in one of those “old-boy” shops. They’ll pat you on the back and make crude jokes.
Very few people (men and women) are willing to be pioneers and fight through a hostile environment to do “other things” (although there are people who just like to fight).
There are even fewer women who look forward to dealing with a load of socially engineered crap just to get an interesting engineering job. The stick far outweighs the carrot. But in this case – the stick is usually attached to leering/jeering middle-aged boys who can’t think beyond their own sticks.
This goes way beyond “decorating with flowers” but that concept is too advanced for “pro” to conceptualize.
Re: true reason for lack of women?
People don’t decide what major to take in college based upon what they believe the social environment is like in that profession that the major would lead to.
I suggest that the reason for the gender gap in engineering is due to nature and not nurture.
I agree that a lot of male engineers aren’t very good at dealing with the rare and few female engineers. I also would suggest that a good percentage of these female engineers use that to their advantage.
Random Thought would have you believe that given the right environment, the ratio would approach 50/50. My understanding of science and evolution tells me that RT is dopey, or has an agenda.
I don’t have anything against female engineers except maybe that some wield a double edged sword that they wave at men that aren’t comfortable around women. I happen to not be one of those men. The last engineer I hired was a female and she’s great.
And don’t blame me if no one wants to smell you, Amazon.
true reason for lack of women?
@pro:
> People don’t decide what major to take in college based upon what they believe
> the social environment is like in that profession that the major would lead to.
Oh -no? How about the social enviroment in ENGINEERING CLASSES?
If you believe that the “hot chick” ratio and falling expectations thing doesn’t come out in class, you’re in severe denial. It’s the same thing, younger hormones.
In majors where the folks there are dedicated professionals upon entry, the socialization is there that everyone there is there because they love the field of study. You’ll find equal numbers of women and men. Oh, say “Music” for example. They’re not there to get dates. They may date within their major, but when there is a class of three bassoon players, it kind of promotes the idea that class is for learning, and not dating.
But as soon as it’s a “men’s world” of study, then suddenly any women who show up in class have to deal with the “hot chick/ugly chick” syndrome. And that’s every bit as deterring to those who would prefer not to be pioneers as any “No women need apply” signs of the 50s. In American universities, it’s still there, alive and well, just slightly under a veneer of civility, not unlike the rampant racism that still exists in most suburban communities across the US. “Oh – we have nothing against “those people” – but as soon as they’re labelled “those people” – the hand is shown.
As soon as it’s “oh – lookie we gots us some dating material in enjuneering class” then the sexism shows. That young woman isn’t a colleague, she’s “bait.”
Same as the sensitive young man who really wants to dance, or cook. Think he’ll be encouraged to find his true self in 95% of the US? feh. He’ll be called all kinds of names, all intended hatefully.
It’s blatant sexism across the board. Still alive and well and kicking good people away from their desired path of study.
Some escape. Three college educated and talented classmates of mine are now happily being stay-at-home dads by choice (not by circumstance). I salute them for finding their own path thru desire, rather than by social norms.
Pro, agenda? I have an agenda on some things, but how could anything I have written in this thread be construed as an agenda? I have opinions but agendas?
Man, it must be interesting being you.
I am not saying that the labor pool will be 50-50, but when there is a need, you better do all you can to fill it (ok, no jokes here). I never said anything about flowers or anything like that, but if its a buyers market (unless you want more H1B’s, you better make things attractive to everyone.
Pro, I really do hope that if you have daughters (or when you do) you encourage them to do anything they want. I am not a big fan of Hillary, but that is one smart lady. Maybe the next president (I know, over some of your damm bodies). There is no limit to what the human (male or female) can do, why do you wish to limit what is possible?
I’d just like to state that I have nothing against women in Engineering, or any other profession. My arguement is that women are less apt by nature to be good engineers – or to even want to try.
Aside, I don’t know how you make a position more attractive without making it more lucrative.
A woman in Tech
I’m a white female and work in Software Development. I agree, I tend to enjoy spending time with guys more than girls. I have a fair share of friends of both genders, but I always seem to feel more comfortable talking with guys. I’m not a total tomboy, but I’m not a princess either. I’m somewhere in between.
I’ve been working in Software Development for about 8 years now, and I’m getting kind of sick/bored with it. I find the schedule fine, plenty of flexibility. I like that I can pretty much come and go as I please, as long as I get my tasks done. I rarely work more than 40 hrs a week (the benefit of working at a large old company). I also like the fact that I don’t have to dress nice (I do anyway, but it’s nice knowing that I can show up in jeans and a t-shirt and noone will care because that is what everyone else is wearing).
The things I don’t like about programming… There is very little social interaction. I guess I am more of a team player kind of person. I don’t like sitting alone in my cube all day going through code. I used to find coding fun, like a giant math puzzle, but I’m starting to not really care about it anymore.
The other big thing… While I’ve always loved math and puzzles, I’ve always hated computers. I HATE computers. I hate hardware. I have no interest in computers. Let’s also add to it: stereos, tvs, cell phones, any kind of electronic crap. I hate it all. Kinda funny that I am a Software Developer and hate computers. When he comes home, my husband gets right on his computer. The last thing I want to do when I come home is get on a computer. I would never touch a computer if I didn’t have to.
I can tell that several of the engineers at my work LOVE what they do, they LOVE talking about the tech stuff. I freakin hate it. So BORING!! They yap and yap and yap about stuff, and I just tune out. The parts I like best about my job are when I get to work on solving an issue that is directly facing the customer, and I get to interact with customer support, marketing, QA, and manufacturing. I guess I like the teamwork that goes into solving this kind of problem, and being able to see the immediate effect on the customer.
I’m going back to school now for an MBA. I think I’m over being a Software Developer. I don’t know if I’ll stay in tech at all. I’m just not passionate about it… Who knows?