If You're Going Around Forcing People To Get RFID Chips, Stay Out Of North Dakota

from the planning-for-all-contingencies dept

North Dakota has joined Wisconsin as the second most paranoid state in the Union by passing a law making it illegal to force somebody to have an RFID chip implanted in them. While it’s nice to see the state looking out for its citizens, it’s not clear exactly who’s going around compelling people to get RFID chips. Just about the only people to have said that some people should be required to have the chips implanted is RFID vendor VeriChip, which said it would be a great idea to put them in migrant workers. But that’s probably just because the company can’t find enough people who actually want to have one of its chips stuck inside them.


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Comments on “If You're Going Around Forcing People To Get RFID Chips, Stay Out Of North Dakota”

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69 Comments
Skippy says:

Good for them

I don’t think they are paranoid, I think they are protecting their citizens’ rights to privacy. Imagine if your insurance company started requiring you to have such a chip implanted and would cancel your coverage if you refused? That’s not going to happen to the people of North Dakota and Wisconsin.

Considering it can take a long time to pass and implement legislation, why wait until companies begin requiring it before we discuss it and take action at a state or national level?

Magicdiablo says:

Agree

I completly agree with the articles that Bingo posted. Sex Offenders need to be tracked a lot better then the registration process, they can still easily move and not tell anyone.

Now children, good and bad there. Good because of kidnapping, bad because it doesn’t help that much because of the limited range of RFID. Honestly, I wouldn’t do it, but I could see some parents doing it in a area where kidnappings are more frequent.

Big Al says:

Why not ID yourself?

I don’t understand the problem with RFIDs in people. It is mandatory that I identify myself to all law enforcement personnel already. I am asked to willingly identify myself by every vendor I do business with. The RFID is only a tool. Your driver’s license is only a tool. Everbody is worried about ID theft these days. RFID for everybody would completely eliminate ID theft. What’s the down side? Who do you lie to about who you are now?

Pappa joe says:

Re: Why not ID yourself?

Here is the big difference… You usually have to “give” that info to someone. With RFID, I could walk up behind you and scan your data off you with a hand held reader. Any encription put on it can be broken. Look at the RFID encriptiion that got broke on the new EU passports before they even hit the streets.

chris (profile) says:

Re: Why not ID yourself?

an ID thief needs to obtain access to your information in some manner.

with mandatory RFID i can set up a scanner in doorway somewhere and phish for personal info all day long.

plus, a cop or whomever has to have cuase to search you but a hidden scanner can do it with no cause (or warrant) at all.

RFID can’t directly impair free speech, but it sure makes it easier to track and detain dissidents.

Big Al says:

Re: Re: Track and detain dissidents?

Yes. Please track and detain dissidents. Terroists, murderers, sex offenders etc.

Phish for what data? “I am Big Al” That’s the only data on the RFID. The Phisher could not use that data because it has to be inside him to be authentic! Someone can take your driver’s license, crop in a new photo and they’re YOU. If someone electronically takes your “I am Big Al” data they have to implant it into their body to be able to use it. You could spot ID theaves by the multiple self surgery scars all over their bodies.

FH says:

Re: Re: Re: Track and detain dissidents?

No actually there would have to be an identifier of some sort and name aint it. Probably your good ole SS number. And no it would not have to be implanted it would just have to be the most powerful signal being read by a reader. Readers would not discern subdural.

FH says:

Re: Why not ID yourself?

Alrighty then…..

You missed the point by a mile. What about someone who you dont need to identify yourself to who gets a reader and now has all the info they want about you?
I dont identify myself to strangers. Especially those with nefarious intent who just saw me put my pin into that auto teller or something like that.

Nasty Old Geezer says:

Re: Why not ID yourself?

Dude — you can’t read my drivers license from 25 to 50 feet away, with it still in my pocket, without me knowing you are reading it. That is exactly what RFID is for. Good one for ND and Wisc.

Just picture what a savings it would be for employers, purchasing clubs (e.g. Sam’s Club), private schools — anybody that wants to know where you are — to say that an RFID is a condition of belinging/employment.

How many of those little suckers do you want in your body? For me, zero is the only right answer.

mosh says:

Being from ND

I just hope that the legislation doesn’t prevent future uses of this technology to track the worst of criminals that end up back in our systems. It’s sad when repeat child sex offenders end up back in our communities I think they should be forced to have some tracking setup and an alarm system around schools and daycares that sounds when they get close. Whatever saves a child!

Mark Warner says:

Wrong purpose

These tags were never designed for this purpose. They are modern day bar codes that will be implemented in shops to allow faster money transactions. They are low range, low cost.

The range of these devices is not good enough to track people, and even if they do create an RFID chip with a larger range how will you be able to tell where the tag is inside that area? The strength of the signal could be used, but it would still be very difficult.

Anonymous Coward says:

Anyone supporting RFID chips in even the slightest aspect really deserves the future loss of privacy, liberty and freedoms that they will inevitably receive.

Just imagine the nightmare that would be the targeted advertising that RFID chips would allow, walking down a street and having billboards and signs shouting your name, giving you advertising based on your medical history. “Feeling down, Chris? Try some Viagra!!”

Loss of privacy, simple things like bill collectors being able to track when you are at home, so they can call/stop by constantly until you pay up. No place to hide.

This should be stopped immediately. In every possible way.

J.A.B. says:

Field day

I have to agree with Pappa Joe. The current generation of chips would offer little protection from cloning. Personally, I’d be pissed if someone that looked similar to me stole my ID and then robbed an RFID monitored bank.

At some point in the future, those low-range readers will be installed everywhere. It will come to the point that you can go nowhere without some reader checking out who you are and telling someone where you are. It will be something like Minority Report where your little RFID chip activates advertisements just for you, except you can be tracked via such technology (similar to cell phone tracking except each tiny little ‘tower’ would nail down your location that much faster). Of this, I have no doubt.

Suppose that one day our democratic government suddenly evolves into an authoritarian dictatorship, not unlike what happened to the German people in the early 1930’s. You might argue that such a thing would never happen again..that the results were so horrendous that people would never allow it to happen. I would argue that history can repeat itself. They were gullible enough to buy into the idea and human beings in 1933 are just as human in 2007. It might take a hundred years or it might take ten years, but the fact of the matter is…the Nazis would have had a FIELD DAY with this kind of technology. The ability to track food shipments, as harmless as it sounds, would potentially flag you as an ‘undesireable’ (carrying your bag of groceries to feed the Jewish family hiding in your attic…yeah, they’d know you are consuming too much food for a family of four). Everyone’s got a chip? Well, they’ll eventually find your secret hiding place, just like they did in 1984. Call me paranoid, but everything I’ve said is completely reasonable. Sure, it’s impossible right now, but you can’t just think about today…that’s how the economy is getting trashed and how Social Security has one leg in the grave.

J.A.B. says:

Why not ID yourself?

I hadn’t even thought about that, Anonymous Coward. Some convict murders you and then digs the RFID chip out of your corpse, installing it into himself. Sure, it’d only work until the body was found and properly ID’d with face recognition, fingerprints, DNA, etc…but still, it’d work long enough to let them cause a bit more harm in your name even after they’d killed you. It might even cause them to kill more people than they normally would just to obtain an identity. Not every moron can clone an RFID chip so why not get a legitimate one? That thought sickens and scares me.

Anonymous Coward says:

Never going to happen

Where do these wild idea’s come from? How in the world would bill collectors be able to read an RFID chip implanted in your body while you’re in your house? How would todays RFID technology allow you to “track” your children? PLEASE explain that one to me? The technology isn’t even remotely close to providing that type of capability. Finally, consider the massive database that would have to be created to make the extremely limited data that could be put on an RFID chip useable for either good purposes or bad purposes. Local, state and federal agencies would have to work together and in complete harmony to build this database. Good luck with that!

I don’t support implanting RFID chips in people, but folks…do some research on what the capabilities of RFID are. Gads.

Mark Warner says:

Paranoid

I think you are all too paranoid, this type of thing will never happen, we are the sole owners of our bodies, we have overall legal power as to what goes in them. If you don’t want an RFID tag inside you, then legally you will not be forced to have one, additionally, they are all to easy detect and remove, or even disable inside the body.

This is NOT going to happen, I went to a conference on it in the UK a few years back, the reason RFID tags (which are great things when used in the right way) have taken off so slowly is because of paranoid thoughts like the ones shown here.

Please, don’t listen to the bad press regarding this subject, see this technology for what it is for.

SPR (profile) says:

RFID

The RFID has limited value as you have to be in the proximity (within a few feet) of a RFID reader to be tracked. Instead, implant child predators with GPS tracking devices under their skulls. Include with that a small charge (small enough to ONLY scramble their brains) that detonates if they get within 100 feet of a school or within 10 feet of a child under 15.

maroonwarrior71 says:

Re: RFID

that has to be the most ridiculous i’ve seen in this thread.

“include with that a small charge…that detonates if they get within 100 feet of a school or within 10 feet of a child under 15.”

good call. Even though these are horrible people, this would totally keep them from being able to go basically anywhere. Wouldn’t be able to drive on certain streets, wouldn’t be able to walk down a sidewalk without actively making an effort to run away from every little kid in sight.
i mean, come on, think before you post. even though they’re horrible people they do still have rights when they’re released from prison or whatnot.

try not to say stupid things.

The infamous Joe says:

Fuel to the foil hats.

All you’d need to track someone is a decent grid of rfid receivers and an rfid tag that emits a series of marked pulses at different energy levels. Feed the data of which markers pick up which signal.

Now you, too, can track someone using rfid.

By the by– the entire point of our criminal system is that these badguys are put into prison to be rehabilitated. Once they are done with that, aren’t they, again, innocent until proven guilty?

By your reasoning, if you get pulled over for speeding, they should shove a rfid tag into you to make sure your ground speed never exceeds the local limit. Break the law and now you don’t get privacy anymore! Take that, founding fathers!

I support the law that prevents these things from being put into people, because there’s no telling what some old politican will come up with next to protect the children.

SPR (profile) says:

Re: Fuel to the foil hats.

Note to “The infamous Joe”: I don’t see any comparison between speeders and child predators. I think you might need a reality check. Of course, I realize that our politicians would never take a strong stand on anything unless it involved accepting a bribe and would therefore never approve something like this. In this scenario, however, a predator could choose, GPS tracking, or life behind bars (which should include HARD labor).

The infamous Joe says:

Re: Re: Fuel to the foil hats.

Note to self: Apparently after you pay your debt to society, you still are a criminal, and must be tracked like an animal for the rest of your days.

If the system says they’re good to go, then they are good to go. If the system is wrong, fix it.

I think they should stay in prison until they’re safe to be let out. If they’re safe to be let out, then they deserve the privacy any of us have the right to.

Maybe you mean for criminals on parole? I can get behind *that*.

SPR (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re: Fuel to the foil hats.

Unfortunately the “System” has been broken for many years. That is why there are so many repeat offenders. We can’t trust the system to decide if a child predator has been “fixed”. As it stands now, once a predator, always a predator. They forfeit their rights when they violate a child, and as far as I am concerned, should NEVER have them restored.

TJefferson says:

You're Already Chipped

You people have already been chipped. It’s in the seams of your pants, the soles of your shoes, and everything else you buy. If you have a brand new 20 dollar bill, it’s in Andrew Jackson’s right eye. Don’t believe it? Put it in a microwave. Plus, if you people new how this technology worked, you would know that certain government angencies track these chips from satelites. The chip is powered by the signal used to comunicate with it.

More power = more range.

The technology our millitary-industrial complex posses is farther than any of you are aware.

Take your country back. Cut the millitary’s 400 billion dollar budget! Fight the federalist!

The infamous Joe says:

Re: You're Already Chipped

Before you microwave your $20 bill, take the foil strip embedded in it out– you know, the only that’s used to prevent counterfitting– and add it to your hat.

Then, after you’ve microwaved it, take a drill to your temple (removing foil hat first!) to remove the one in your brain.

This is a public service announcement.

We’re all stocked up on crazy here– go peddle it somewhere else. 🙂

Anonymous Coward says:

It won't be mandetory....but it will happen.

People will accept these chips for the same reason they give up their privacy for “loyalty cards”. Convenience.

You won’t have to get one…you’ll be welcome to pay more or wait in long lines or be inconvenienced in other ways.

That’s how people will end up getting chipped.

Anonymous Coward says:

Hey Joe,
Felons always have lost certian freedoms even after the term of their incarceration. Felons can’t vote. Ever. Felons can’t purchase firearms, regardless of the crime. These rights have been perminantly removed.

Why should it be so odd to track sex offenders for life? They’ve given up their entitlements to act as free citizens. Anyway, it most cases, lifetime registration is agreed to by the offender, at the time of sentencing. At least if they’ve taken a plea, then it voluntary agreed to whatever post prison stipulations the plea includes.

I hate it when people talk about the infringement of a felon’s rights, especially when the felons agreed to the stipulations.

tracker1 (user link) says:

Hmm...

Regarding an earlier post… First, registering as a sex offender completely belies the concept of “time served.” Second, When an 18yo boyfriend can have charges filed by his 17yo gf’s parents, and get convicted as a “Child Sex Offender,” there’s something wrong with the system. Note: I’ve never been convicted of either, but I know how messed up the system is.

Mike says:

It Will Happen

It will happen because there are evil and greedy people. It will happen because there are so many people that only have a government level education. It will happen because history can and does repeat because of the first two reasons.

The argument that the technology is not there is ridiculous in our day. My first computer had 4K of memory. What’s done on computers now would have been “impossible” then. I thought this was a site for tech savvy people. No, playing video games doesn’t qualify.

The argument that “it couldn’t happen here” is the most frghtening. It IS happening here. The city that my business is in is installing cameras at ALL controlled intersections. The federal government is trying to force states to have “smart” driver licenses NOW. Etc, etc, etc…..

Don’t worry though; “they” will continue to allow the masses to have their “games” and favorite beverages.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: It Will Happen

The technology is NOT here today. It’s not an argument, it’s a fact. by NOT here I mean it’s not commercially available, it’s not affordable and it’s not feasible. Will that change over time…absolutely. Is it likely that all the local, state and federal agencies will cooperate to create the databases and internetworking essential to make it pay off…very unlikely. Will the politicians succeed in requiring US citizens to have invasive implants into their body…99.99% unlikely.

So far it’s apparent that the fears expressed here stem from lack of knowledge. e.g. the technology used to stem counterfeiting of currency is NOT the same as the RFID chips commonly used in products we buy. The chip potentially used for currency is likely a µ-chip which is the only chip in existance that would work. But, it’s read range is 12″ or less. It does not support an anticollision so you can’t simultaneously read multiple tags and they only perform “reasonably well” with liquids and metal, (The human body is mostly water) and in tests proved they could read chips attached to liquid material up to a staggering 1″ – 2″ away!!!

Will the technology change? Yup, but as far as tagging human, huge barriers exist with supporting technologies, economics, politics and social hurdles. My advice is don’t bet any money humans will be implanted with tags in the next couple hundred years.

Lance Mertz says:

North Dakota is Libertarian

While ND is very conservative (they make Texans look like liberals) they are also very libertarian in many ways. They just started registering voters a few years ago. The state has one of the lowest crime rates, highest education levels and lowest divorce levels in the country and is into small government. The legislature only meets every other year.

So, the RFID thing makes sense. They like their privacy… and everyone pretty much knows everyone, so IDing sex offenders is pretty easy.

Old Guy says:

Freedoms, and Privacy

The so-called Patriot Act has done more to erode personal freedoms, privacy and rights than anything else since WWII.
Anyone who doesn’t believe a government will eliminate as many personal freedoms and rights as they can needs to read some history. Our founding fathers knew this, that is why there IS a USA.

This man said it best:

Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.

Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759

vintage coronado says:

666 the number fo the beast

i don’t think it’s paranoia, it’s more of conservative christians trying to warm the peeps that the VeraChip is “the mark of the beast” per say. for those who have read the scriptures you will understand. you won’t be able to buy, sell or trade unless you have the mark. with all our immigration issues, wanting to keep track of sex offenders and other misc things, we can see how our gov. in the future can make it mandatory to inplant the device. for sure there are several positives for the chip, u can put them in your pets, and children. think about having your kid kidnap and he has the chip. but then again if a prophecy so olf can predict what’s at hand then……. i don’t see how you can actually contradict it.

two examples.

in 2000 i got a new military id. it had the gemplus chip on it. inside that chip was all my military records, civilian, dental records, and to sugar it up it also had my wifes and daughters.

did you guys ever see the ibm commercial of the suspecious looking guy in a long black coat entering a supermarket? he goes from lane to lane picking items and putting them inside his coat. he walks out the door of the market to have a laser scan above his head to charge the items he had inside his coat.

Pesti says:

To #50 Anon

Quote:
“Will the technology change? Yup, but as far as tagging human, huge barriers exist with supporting technologies, economics, politics and social hurdles. My advice is don’t bet any money humans will be implanted with tags in the next couple hundred years.”

Wake up it’s being done already!

http://www.greaterthings.com/News/Chip_Implants/index.html

Anonymous Coward says:

by Pesti on Apr 13th, 2007 @ 11:59am
Be afraid, Be very afraid….

Of?

Consider for a moment that our spy satellites are capable of reading a 2″x2″ piece of paper in your pocket. Couple that with facial recognition software and you’ve got one hell of a human tracking solution. There’s also technology that allows our military to see through walls. With some of the graphics software capabilities out there, that SW could be thrown into the mix as well. Wow, now the government can watch us regardless of whether we’re outside or in a building.

But…I don’t plan on getting ulcers being paranoid/schizophrenic over something like RFID implants that isn’t realistic in my lifetime. There’s other more immediate threats that are REAL that we need to monitor.

Knowledge, not ignorance is Power.

Anonymous Coward says:

Dear Pesti,

Rather than read the religious interpretations and predictions on the website you sited, I went directly to the manufacturers website.

Directly from VeriChip’s website:

“Tracking individuals…VeriChip’s implantable microchip does not have…built-in Global Positioning System (GPS) support or long-range wireless communications.

These are 2 very expensive, ergo economically impractical technologies that would make requiring each citizen to have one implanted economically infeasible. I would say insurmountable…shall we say it would cost more than our current national debt? Probably not far off.

RFID chips emit a radio transmission with the information contained on the chip. This transmission is SO WEAK because of the extremely small size of RFID that readers have to be within inches and on the outside a few feet of the chip to be able to read it. Boosting the signal sufficiently so it could be read at great distances means increasing the size of the RFID implant to a point where it couldn’t be implanted in a human.

Next problem is if you read your website that you referenced, you’ll notice that the chip simply “links” an RFID ID number (unique serial number) to a database somewhere that has all the nitty – gritty details on the product (or human) that particular chip is implanted on. In the US, we can’t get law enforcement agencies to share data and play nice, how are we going to create a sinister government database on you shared across all government agencies that would be needed to make the implants work? So, assuming the government already has all this great dirt on us cross referenced to our Social Security number, the only benefit RFID would provide is identifying WHERE we are. So, if you’re stopped by a cop today, all they need is your SS # or your DL # and they can pull up all of your disgusting private secrets now. Don’t need RFID for that. That being the case, what’s the real benefit or business case to implant RFID into humans? Hmph…nothing. So why would the government spend something north of the national deficit to implant us with RFID if there’s no benefit.

Wake up…there are a lot of threatening technologies out there today. Same paranoia was flourished during the industrial revolution. Somehow everyone survived then. The doomsday predictions never transpired. Trust me on this one, this too will never be more than a paranoid dream.

NWP (user link) says:

First REAL ID REQUIRED/THEN RFID

Our government is already lineing up the legislation that makes the national REAL ID card mandatory. All states will be required to switch their state ids and drivers licenses over to the REAL ID.

This then forms a national database that retains all citizens information. With all the data breachs big and small occuring this looks unsuccessful.

One REAL ID in all states equals easy counterfeiting.

All technology out there has been proven to be breakable. An example is the recent report of a hacker that was able to access 90 us systems. Our government don’t hire him or these kids out there that do it, they put them away for life.

Our government does not care about the little guy or average citizen. An example, the Australian turned terrorist that is being released from our cuban prision will be lucky to serve one year in Australia. This is with our government’s blessing.

We are transfering the guy from California to the Colorado Super Max for the next 20 years.

Does the current state of our country make sense?

Daniel Stevenson says:

END OF DAYS

Revelation 13:17…And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

Revelation 14:9-And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

Revelation 14:10-The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

Revelation 14:11-“And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”

12/2/09-I am a 33 yr old man. I was 15 when my grandma past away. Some 25 yrs prior to her just recent death, she had made some recordings of a preacher’s sermon. My Dad and I listened to the cassette tapes on our 2 hr ride home after gathering things from her now vacant apartment.
The man spoke of a one world government without “cash”. Purchases would be made using a card. Only the card holder would know the access code. No need to carry cash and be knocked in the head for it. A cashless society is absolutly possible.

In The Know (profile) says:

Never going to happen

I am a person who believes I have been illegally implanted and trust me, you do not want the RFID in your body. If your speech is against a state government you can be electronically harassed and tortured by these implants not to mention all the other concerns posted here. People are being secretly implanted now, they wake up one day and do not understand why their body hurts for no reason or their way of thinking has changed. BEWARE if not you fall prey.

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