How The French Take English Internet Words And Make Them Acceptable For French Ears
from the non! dept
More than six years ago, we wrote about how the French, ever protective of their language, had rejected a bunch of commonly used words to describe new technologies such as email, and created their own official French-approved versions. The process, of course, is an ongoing one, and an attendee at a recent meeting explains the process by which the French come up with officially acceptable French ways of saying things like “ipod” and “pharming.” As the article says: “The words are created by a panel of industrialists and savants, either from scratch or based on observations of evolving usage. The Ministry of the Economy, Finance and Industry has set up a Special Commission on Terminology and Neologisms in Electronic Communications to carry out such work.” Apparently, just letting languages evolve naturally (while perhaps requiring that much less bureaucracy) is just way too messy.
Comments on “How The French Take English Internet Words And Make Them Acceptable For French Ears”
Makes me wonder
How do the French translate the word ‘pwned’?
Re: Makes me wonder
the french say “le pwned”
The French
Umm, they are the French. Which makes what they do pretty much irrelevant anyway. This just makes one more fight they won’t win. Perhaps if they called the British and Americans to help…
Re: The French
Umm, they are the French. Which makes what they do pretty much irrelevant anyway. This just makes one more fight they won’t win. Perhaps if they called the British and Americans to help…
Typical Western ignoramus. And yes, that means I put you in the same category as French. Your vaunted “freedom” would not exist without the help of French navy and your proud Statue of Liberty is nothing but a copy of a French statue. Unless you want to become as “irrelevant” as French are, try learning basic history about AT LEAST your own country.
Re: Re: The French
Quick question…is scpetic the new French way of spelling skeptic? (because I thought that is was spelled
“sceptique”
Oh yeah, btw, I do appreciate the fact that the France helped the colonies some 200 odd years ago. But I do think that between WWI, WWII and Viet Nam (which the US was DUMB enough to take over), we’ve might have evened debt that out…
And it was while living on the continent for many years (pre-Iraq) that I formed my dislike for most things french.
Re: Re: The French
Quick question…is scpetic the new French way of spelling skeptic? (because I thought that is was spelled
“sceptique”
Oh yeah, btw, I do appreciate the fact that the France helped the colonies some 200 odd years ago. But I do think that between WWI, WWII and Viet Nam (which the US was DUMB enough to take over), we’ve might have evened debt that out…
And it was while living on the continent for many years (pre-Iraq) that I formed my dislike for most things french.
so what do you do for a living? I make up words……
This is a fantastic idea that will really help the French to communicate around the globe… Maybe we should start doing the same thing in English and get rid of all those pesky French words that have so poisoned and watered down our treasured language to the point that hardly anyone speaks it anymore… oh right… yeah…
Re: Re:
What a bunch of cocksmokers the French are. In fact, lets change the word ‘French’ to ‘cocksmokers’. see hoe they like that!
I’m French, and I can guarranty you that except the guys from this special commission and people that don’t understand what they are talking about, nobody uses these terms.
French government is really disappointing for everyone in the World, specially for French…
Re: Re:
I wonder how many of my fellow Americans (that usually just make fun of the French to be trendy) are going to be pissed when they realize how much we have in common with you.
Two peoples united in their hatred for their respective governments. Hail brother!
On topic:
After someone in our own government tried to change “french-fries” to “freedom fries”, I don’t think anyone on this side of the big pond can say a damned thing about what the French Government is doing. At least not without starting with something like “I know our government is just as stupid, but…”
Re: Re: Re:
Just to clarify this one, which I’ve seen misreported often, what they did was declare that all references to French fries and French toast on the menus of the restaurants and snack bars run by the House of Representatives would be removed. It was a symbolic act and didn’t force anyone anywhere else to do the same.
Re: Re: Re: Re:
Hmm – A symbolic Act? For what? As a symbol of narrowminded stupidity?
Just thinking it is ridiculous – but acting on it really shows an unbelievable range of intolerance.
The same people would have liked to see this put in to law, mind you…
Re: Re: Liberte egalite, fraternite ou la mort
Interesting Gabriel,
You both have a statue of Liberty, in fact the French gave the one in NYC as a gift which was shipped over on the Isere.
You both had revolutions 1775-1782 USA, 1789 France
In fact, the French helped you stuff us by providing military support to the Newfoundlanders.
It’s only ignorant cocks like Bush who stir up differences between you by calling the French cowards because they have the spine to stand up and refuse to join in a war of agression. In fact the Bush regime goes against every principle established by your own revolution. American disrespect of the French is a very recent thing… that’s traditionally our job here in Britain 🙂
Re: Disappointing governments
What a coincidence. We have the same problem with the American government disappointing Americans.
Re: Re:
Thanks you for that clarification. I am trying to like the French and you helped with that.
BTY, I would like to apolgize for the current president of the U.S. We had no idea he would go off on his own path like he has.
m.z.
French continues to aspire to be a dead language.
This is a good place for the James Nicoll quote.–
“The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don’t just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary.”
Have you heard of Quebec?
This is not new at all…Quebec has been ‘adopting’ the english language for their own use for decades, even when French versions exist. For example, le hamburger (hambourgeois) et le hot-dog (chien chaud). In their minds, they’re French words in reality.
If you listen carefully to a Quebec-French conversation, you’ll frequently hear an english word in almost every sentence.
Zut alors!
Just want to second what Florian is saying – although l’Academie Francaise and other entities make up new words to replace the torrent of “anglo-saxon” words washing up on French shores, no-one uses them. Interestingly, the people of Quebec are much more purist about their language. For example they insist on calling email “courriel” whereas the French call it “Mail”…
How do you say ‘monumental waste of time’ in french?
Re: Re:
“How do you say ‘monumental waste of time’ in french?”
…conscription
Re: Re:
How do you say ‘monumental waste of time’ in french?
I believe it’s pronounced “Tuesday”, but I could be wrong.
Re: Re: Re:
Nah – I think it’s pronounced “FridayDecemberfifteen2006”
Well, some of the new French terms are pretty good
Personally, my favorite is the official Franch for “flame war”… “coup de feu”
I'm french too
I’m happy to have a bureaucracy that try to keep a language that is not only driven by the marketing needs.
Of course, as it’s a bureaucracy, they don’t do all perfect, but it makes some kind of balance.
I never worked for government but in private company and i find the privately owned bureaucracy is not so much attractive than the government one.
To end, as customer, the level of service given by internet providers is quiet below what i get from public services.
My feeling is that fight against public service is ideology
not unusual, and no need for french bashing
while it may be shocking to americans that other countries make pesky attempts to keep their own culture and fight american world domination in all areas, especially language and popular youth culture, this is not at all unusal. the swedes has since long a group called datatermgruppen, attempting the same thing to make it easier for swedes to communicate with each other and find coherent alternatives. while it’s easy for young people just to use the english terms, it’s not necessarily something the older generation understands. iceland has since long found icelandic alternatives to any foregin words, with the sole purpose of maintaining it’s old and formerly isolated culture and language.
Frenches piss "à la raie" in your ass
Perhaps French are losing time to create new worlds, but don’t lose time to make useless war…….
Plain silly.
Please don’t confuse the French and the French government.
They are two distinct things.
Freanch people don’t give a damn about those silly translations from the Académie Française. Real people use the real words.
Otherwise we would be using “bouteuse” instead of “bulldozer”. Nodoby does that.
Re: Plain silly.
but you still use “informatique” (computer science) and “ordinateur” (computer) and even “unité centrale” that does not even have proper translation in english 😉
Re: Plain silly.
Just the same with Americans.. Don’t confuse “US” with the US Government.. We are very separate.
Communicating clearly
Because of a failure to communicate clearly the Airbus A380 is now behind schedule by two years at a cost so billions of dollars. In the meantime the French are spending money to try to create new obstacles to clear communication. C’est un farce.
so the world isn't english
Guys – why is it so wrong about terms being translated into other languages? Does everything need to be English only? Do the American/English have some sort of assimilation plan for the planet?
If other countries feel like understanding what they read, and feel like going on speaking their own language, what’s wrong with that?
Please remember the planet isn’t USA, nor England. I know it’s hard to tell from within. I for one am still living happily even though I’m not from any of these places. (although I’m a bit bothered some people’s chauvinism sometimes)
Re: so the world isn't english
Hey, there american, and like their president, they think they can rule the world and do what they want…
I can’t wait for some third world country to nuke em. (The american’s that is, not the French)
Re: Re: so the world isn't english
Hate to break this to you, but right now the US is like that turtle that carries the world on it’s back. If it were to go away the world economy would crash and thousands of people world wide would die.
Also, you’ve missed the point of the article entirely. The words used as slang by tech culture have nonsensical means even in english. The translations don’t tell you any more than the english words. A non tech-savvy babyboomer is likely to think pod casting is about pea throwing.
As far as cultural tolerance goes, I recall France had a large Muslim riot recently. If they’re this xenophobic about foreign culture it’s no wonder.
Re: Re: so the world isn't english
Tssk, Not an American… Don’t hate America because of the actions of a few deranged leaders. Nobody is going to “nuke” America, except perhaps Bush, you know those crazies believe in the “rapture” and the “cleansing fire” don’t you?
Hopefully these nutcases will all soon be in jail, or better, swinging on a rope after the ICC convicts them of war crimes.
London is full of exiled Americans who can’t stand it at home any more. I say to them – love what your country stands for and go home and fight to get it back. You should support Americans in their opposition against their enemy at home not throw hate at them.
Though, I can see why you get wound up by comments like
“Will Sharia law allow you to make up your own words?”
and
“the US is like that turtle that carries the world on it’s back. If it were to go away the world economy would crash and thousands of people world wide would die.”
We have to educate these people not spit on them for their ignorance, which is largely not their fault, it’s the result of living in an insular society immersed in propaganda 24/7
Re: so the world isn't english
The fact is everyone is free to evolve their language. Why should one language be “the better language”?
Also, why write this article and make fun of the French unless you beleive English is the “better language” and that the others are useless?
Oh, and that comment about the US carrying the world on its back is the most spectacular example of chauvinism in this thread. All other countries should all hail the USA, be their servants for eternity, right? We should all kneel everytime we see an American, they are so good for the planet.
Thank god some of you know better. The rest of the world might stand a chance if some Americans stop frustrating the planet – knock on wood.
As second in command of this office I hereby appoint myself the sole member of the committee on commitee validity. I determine this committee is invalid.
President of France steps forward and says, “I object!”
OBJECTION OVERRULED!
PRESIDENT OF FRANCE: “Permission to join the committee on committee validity!”
Permission denied.
PRESIDENT OF FRANCE: “Damn, oops, what is the French translation of Damn?”
Re: The Office
That was a great episode…nice reference!
Re: Re:
@Whitty nickname: Almost as good as it was on “The Office”. 🙂
Re: Re:
Sacre-Bleu
Actually we call the French cowards because they let Hitler march into the capitol city without a fight because it would have destroyed a “Beautiful city”.
The Americans who died on D-Day thank the French military for that one, as well as the forsight of the Maginot Line.
Thanks France, you really saved the Americans from Nazi Rule!
Re: Re:
“Actually we call the French cowards because they let Hitler march into the capitol city without a fight because it would have destroyed a “Beautiful city”.”
I think you fail to appreciate what a shrewd military decision that was. Given the overwhelming forces they faced moving out of the city to fight a geurilla war of attrition through the Resistance was smart.
No occupying army has ever “won” an urban war against a determined opposition, as the USA is discovering (again) in Iraq.
“The Americans who died on D-Day thank the French military for that one, as well as the forsight of the Maginot Line.”
No they don’t, they’re dead. You’ve watched too many propaganda films with John Wayne in I think. D-Day was launched from Britain, thanks for the help and everything, but you guys sat on the fence for 4 years until the tide was already turning and then joined the winning side. And then sent us the bill for your services.
“Thanks France, you really saved the Americans from Nazi Rule!”
That doesn’t even make sense. And the way things are going these days the only people who can save America from “Nazi rule” are yourselves.
Re: Re: Re:
The reason we americans feel fairly strongly about the french is because they have always treated us as second class citizens. Never mind that our soldiers died storming a beach that the french could have held if they had used those wondrous defenses of theirs. The defenses were dismantled and then used against Allied forces btw. Never mind that after their liberation they treated us as if we were their opressors. Never mind that they went behind the UN’s back and traded proscribed items for oil with Iraq. And about the fact that they gave us the Statue of Liberty. That is a misrepresented fact. It was not the French who gave it to us, but a Frenchman! Eiffel gave us the Statue of Liberty because he liked our idea of government. And I doubt that the fact that no occupational force has ever stood up against a determined resistance was going through the french governments mind when they surrendered.
Re: Re:
you call the French cowards out of fear, anger, hatred and other negative thoughts and feelings that manifest themselves within your mind and soul.
Be honest with yourself, you didn’t fight in D-Day, and you have absolutely no way of knowing what all the Americans who DID fight thought of Paris, whether they died or not. It is just as possible that the Americans actually AGREED that Paris should not suffer needless destruction, considering that the French crippled their chances from even before the start of the real war with the Maginot Line, as you so adeptly noted.
In the end, Hitler died a shivering coward as his false empire crumbled at his feet, and that was due to the overwhelming force of most of the rest of the World working against him. America is amazing for having been able to carry on two simultaneous wars (one with Japan and one with Germany, since Italy folded quicker than France it shouldn’t really be considered to be on the same level historically anyways) and win both relatively quickly (we’ve now spent more time fucking up Iraq).
We saved ourselves, as a civilization, from the negative forces unleashed by Hitler and his Nazis, but you are actually channeling that negativity with your ill-mannered comments. Try positivity, its a much more gratifying path
Re: Re: Re:
I agree with you. Except with one thing. The fact that we see the French as cowards is more of a running joke than a display of hate. Something that they’re going to have to live with. Like your baby brother/sister having to live with a bad nickname you hit them with when they were kids.
I'm So Hurt. :(
So the French think that all americans should be burned alive
in giant ovens because they are so awful? Well you tried that with the jews, did it make France a better place?
Soon you will be losing all of your new words and probably the technology that goes with them when your country
becomes an Islamic State.
Will Sharia law allow you to make up your own words?
This was answered best by kjpweb in # 25…
“Hmm – A symbolic Act? For what? As a symbol of narrowminded stupidity? Just thinking it is ridiculous – but acting on it really shows an unbelievable range of intolerance. The same people would have liked to see this put in to law, mind you…”
-kjpweb
No, you call them cowards for those reasons. Don’t group all of us into your war-mongering hate-speech.
If the French didn’t want to fight, for what ever reason, that’s fine. I don’t remember all of the French going along with it. Didn’t they have a resistance that helped us (US and other ALLIED forces) push the Germans out? Oh that’s right. They did.
And the Americans who died on D-Day don’t thank anyone for anything. They’re dead.
Finally, no one saved America from Nazi rule. Wrong continent dumbass. Unless you mean that eventually America is going to own everything and France didn’t help us save a future possession from Nazi rule.
Bottom line is this. WWII wasn’t an American war. We helped… you may even be able to say that we turned the tide or carried more than our fair burden… but we weren’t the only country in that war. Stop making it sound like America saved the damned world.
American soldiers (brave men, all) didn’t die or spill one drop of blood for our freedom. They did one better. They bled for the freedom of others; the French, Polish, Jews… everyone the Nazis had ground under their boots.
And you know what… no one owes us a damned thing for it because we’ve betrayed that sense of nobility and sacrifice by becoming an aggressive, abusive world-police and then try to play it off like we’re “promoting freedom” or “promoting democracy”. Bullshit. We’re promoting American interests and making a shitload of money for a select few while we’re at it.
Re: Re:
->American soldiers (brave men, all) didn’t die or spill one drop of blood for our freedom. They did one better. They bled for the freedom of others; the French, Polish, Jews… everyone the Nazis had ground under their boots.
‘One better’ my ass. That is ‘public relations’ propaganda. The US entered WWII because if the UK fell to Nazi Germany and ceased to be a country, then the UK would not be able to pay off the debt owed to the US from WWI.
American soldiers may have been told they were fighting for freedom, but the reality is far removed.
Who cares?
Seriously, if the French government wants to make offical words for their own language all the power to them.
RE: "fight american world domination"
“fight american world domination”
I love that statement. Well not really. It always confuses me.
When people complain about Americans and its culture(s) Since America is made up of immigrants from other places. Myself I am only 3rd generation. So “American Culture” is really just a mish-mash of all of the ones from the rest of the world.
Welll...
I’m all for preserving your language, culture, and heritage but to make up a commision to create official french tranlations?
Most tech terms are more slang than anything these days.
Why
is it that any topic that involves the French allways comes down to “ya but we saved your ass in WWII”? Stick to the topic people…
Sorry...
Yeah, Gabriel Tane is right. I never should have said ‘we’ think the French are cowards. I meant I think the French are cowards.
Enlightened people like Gabriel Tane out there know the French should have just surrendered at the mere sight of aggression as he would have! For it is better to let Jews die at the hands of an evil man then to stand up to evil and say “Not in my name Mr. Hitler, you can not commit genocide!”
“Not in my name Mr. Hussein, you can not build rape rooms and torture people with power drills!”
Gabriel Tane says “WE WILL NOT FIGHT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE!!”
“WE WILL NOT GO TO WAR WITH JAPAN OVER PEARL HARBOR! THOSE SHIPS WERE WEAPONS OF DESTRUCTION ANYWAY!”
“WE WILL NOT STAND UP TO HITLER’S GENOCIDE!”
Gabriel Tane says, “WE WILL NOT KICK THE TALIBAN OUT OF AFGHANISTAN, THE TWIN TOWERS WERE JUST MOCKING THE THIRD WORLD ANYWAY!”
Gabriel Tane says, “WE WILL NOT STAND UP TO SADDAM AND HIS USE OF CHEMICAL WEAPONS!”
Gabriel Tane says “NOT IN MY NAME”.
I am sorry, Gabriel, I speak for me, not you. Please accept this sarcastic apology.
Re: Sorry...
another silly rant by Witty Nickname
Good thing that no one in US ever enslaved black people or put its own citizens in concentration camps because they looked different and their farm land was so damn nice. Obviously not knowing anything about your own history makes it easier to bash others.
You like bringing Hussein up, why not remember Pol Pot? Don’t remember anyone kicking his butt.
Re: Sorry...
I do accept the (much needed) apology, sarcastic or not.
Enlightened people like me know that we weren’t there to know all of the factors to decide if we think the French military strategy was a good one or not. Are you an experienced military strategy analyst who was there and gathered first-hand information about the situation? No? Then talking like you know what was good for them is quite un-enlightened. Or just ignorant.
The French didn’t roll over and just allow the genocide… they were a little preoccupied with BEING INVADED. Yes, I’m sure they were concerned with the fact that so many Jews were being slaughtered… but they had more pressing and immediate concerns.
And as far as their military strategy goes, go read Misanthropic Humanist’s post #28. He brings up a great point about guerilla strategy. Now, you should notice that he states an opinion and historic observation. Not, as you would give, a direct statement of fact.
Above all, you blame France for Americans dying in Europe during WWII. Funny thing, I thought it was the Germans that were shooting at us. Hmmm… I need to go read that again, I guess? And it wasn’t the French that decided we were going to enter the war. And it certainly wasn’t the plight of just the French that tipped our hand into entering.
You’re blaming France because that’s the thing to do today. Make fun of the frogs.
Now, onto the rest of your mindless blather.
Uh… what?
I’m not sure on what you’re basing these words you’re putting in my mouth, but that’s not what I was saying. Not even close.
If you read my post, instead of just reading the fact I was disagreeing with you, you would see that I lauded those very reasons. I celebrate the fact that a previous incarnation of the once-great country was noble enough to stand up for others. That they were self-sacrificing enough to give their lives to free others. But, as I said, that is no more. Now, we merely use the specter of that once-great nobility as a cape to hide our real intentions: Money and Power.
And Japan is a whole different subject. That was retaliation and full-blown war. Another country declares war on us and we fight back. That was soldiers dying for our freedom. That was soldiers laying down their lives for America.
In Europe, we were there to (finally) help our Allies.
I said nothing about the Taliban. I said that we are an abusive world-police.
Since we’re talking about it… going after the Taliban for what they did is not noble. It’s self-serving. I’m not saying it’s a bad thing. It will teach them (and others) that we retaliate, that there are consequences for attacking us. Good for the future. But it’s not noble. Don’t make it sound like we’re doing some heroic good deed.
Again, I didn’t say anything about Iraq, but since we’re talking about it…
The belief that we were in Iraq for anything other than protecting our oil interests is propaganda and naivete. The belief that we are in Iraq now for anything more is no better.
So, Gabriel Tane doesn’t say a damned word you tried to put in his mouth. Gabriel Tane says “speak for yourself”. Which you promptly went and did the exact opposite and started speaking for me. Good job.
Re: Sorry...
->”Not in my name Mr. Hussein, you can not build rape rooms and torture people with power drills!”
Did you miss the report about how the US tortures more people in Iraq then Hussein did? Did you miss the US soldiers raping children at Abu Ghraib?
The pentagon has videos. But they won’t show them to you, so you would have to ask people who have seen it.
“We’re not just talking about giving people a humiliating experience. We’re talking about rape and murder.”
Senator Lindsay Graham (R)
I guess Witty Nickname likes people to rape and murder ‘in his name’.
Words
Wow. Maybe via the net, I can employ my 9 year old who makes up words everyday.
But then again, that means associating with the French.
Comment on Cultures and their governments
Almost all cultures of the world have similar issues with their governments. The “common man”, or”normal person” many times feels his government does not represent his own views. On the whole this idea is usually only true in appearance. A closer look almost always reveals that in the making of any policy decision, the view held by any of the citizens has been brought to light during the process, and just never made it to the implementation stage. That is what governments do for a living.
This situation is not unlike the “classic” teenager vs parent idealogical struggle. The teenager usually thinks the parent is diametrically opposed to whatever their wishes are. In fact many times the teenager will hold a particular view on a subject merely because they know the parent holds a different view. In many ways this parallels the government/citizen relationship. The government is the political version of the parent. And the parent is the social version of the government. And as in the family unit, the government and citizen often hold the same underlying goals for the society in their own country as the parent and teenager hold for their family. So your own government may in reality hold the same overall view as yourself in matters of policy. It’s usually only the end result the citizen sees. Even in the U.S. congressional committee meetings are usually not held in public. Only the voting on the floor or hearings held by Congress are public. Most people (including Congressmen) don’t feel they can speak freely when they are being watched. The cliche is government as Big Brother, but the citizen becomes Big Brother when meetings become public. How many people act exactly the same when their parent sitting right next to them and when their parent is absent? Or spouse for that matter?
That social aspect of behavior not withstanding, The French as a society have proudly considered themselves civilized among other other cultures for many years due to being pioneers in many social and technical arenas. They are perhaps the oldest of the modern societies in the area. Being first does not necessarily make you better, but it just might make you proud. They have notably excelled in gourmet cooking and in making films. Most world class chefs use French techniques in their cooking, and most world class film makers use techniques pioneered by the French. You would be hard pressed to find a Hollywood or even Independent movie that didn’t have a French ancestor. Even comic book hero movies were pioneered by them (followed closely by the Italians). So the French trying to preserve their language and culture in a world with ever increasing outside influences should not be a surprise.
That said, the American culture thrives on making up their own terms for things. Even for things that don’t really exist, i.e. “Bennifer” and “Brangelina.”
When did everyone start
ah yes – when they refused to help invade Irak… How stupid of them – not beleiving in that idea….
Wait – most people in the US think it was a bad idea now…
OOPS!
About ....... EVERYTHING!
I think the world shouldn’t be viewed at so separately. Sadly people are still confined to believing people are different because of where they live or the color of their skin. One day everyone will realize we are all humans and we will work together, all of us, to better the world.
So maybe I’m a dreamer…
Re: About ....... EVERYTHING!
If it wasn’t pointed out to me the first time a BLACK person did something, or that you can’t treat “black” people the same way you treat others, or that jobs or college positions were given based on color (which presently means the darker the better) or that every time something happens to a person “of color” the race card is used, then perhaps I would be color blind. For gods sake, O.J. used the race card.
In this country if you come to my door on Saturday to talk religion you should be killed but if you blow yourself up in the name of Allah and kill kids and women then “we should consider the circumstances, after all, the christians had the crusades! (800 fucking years ago!)” Skin color will always be a problem as long as it is always pointed out or used.
America too.
We have a committee here in the USA that makes up stupid words all the time, it’s called MTV. “Yo! We be all blinged out and getting crunk up in this club fo shizzle! (Translation: I’m a total fucking idiot, and don’t know how stupid I sound!)” UD
Re: America too.
@nunya_bidness
ROFL, nearly peed my pants on that MTV joke.
About the current topic of the French translating words for their use, I wonder how this article would read if it where the other way around. As in, what if the French where the ones coming up with new technologies. I doubt any american would use “ordinateur” or whatnot. I wouldnt be surprised if some republican zealot starts crying foul and demanding a comittee for the “americanization” of those words.
“American disrespect of the French is a very recent thing… that’s traditionally our job here in Britain :)”
Well, we have disliked the French since before I was born and that was 50 years ago. Seems long enough to me.
“I can’t wait for some third world country to nuke em. (The american’s that is, not the French)”
You do understand that the same people who would nuke us will nuke you too? And usually they do it to you BEFORE they try it on us.
” D-Day was launched from Britain, thanks for the help and everything, but you guys sat on the fence for 4 years until the tide was already turning and then joined the winning side. And then sent us the bill for your services.”
We didn’t sit on the fence. America didn’t want to join a war that wasn’t ours. Whenever we did, for what ever reason, we did save your ass. The war was NOT turning. Check your history.
As for those of you who hate America, we don’t really affect your day to day life. It’s just the “hate the big guy” syndrome. We even have Americans who hate the fact we are the big guy.
And rather it is proper or not, the world economy does depend upon America. And in only a little over 200 years we have grown to become the most powerful nation in the world. Why did you people let that happen?
For those that compare Bush to Hitler, you’re asses. Truth is, we have not taken over one country. We could though. We could take over YOUR country if we wanted. If we were what we were accussed of being then we would be so much worse than we are.
Re: Re:
No wonder you decided to remain an anonymous coward…
“We didn’t sit on the fence. America didn’t want to join a war that wasn’t ours. Whenever we did, for what ever reason, we did save your ass. The war was NOT turning. Check your history.”
Yeah, seriously, do check your history. First of all, check your stats on which direction the Eastern Front was moving in 1944. You’ll find out that it was moving West, that would in the direction of Germany. Also check the facts on natural resources that Germany planned, but didn’t get due to the losses on the Eastern front.
“Saving your ass” sounds like such a nice thing for you to do, but you must be 15 and not 50 to think that any country would expand so many resources and sacrifice people just to save some ass across the pond. If Nazi Germany was to win and US refused to have a treaty with it, Hitler’s plan was to battle US by whatever means until US surrendered.
Furthermore, US DID sit on the fence and for a damn good strategic reason, to see how worn out USSR is. America was afraid that if USSR forces were to prevail in Western Europe (as it was happening) then all of it would fall under communist rule. Note, America has been in quite aggressive war on communists since early 20th century. So June of ’44 was a good time for US to enter so that Soviet Union does not get all of Europe and even then it was a bit late. See East Germany for example. It was a shrewd (if morally questionable) move on America’s part and even though you try to pass yourself as a proud American, you certainly got a few things to learn about the inner working of your own government and what it has done to help you live free.
For those that compare Bush to Hitler, you’re asses. Truth is, we have not taken over one country. We could though. We could take over YOUR country if we wanted.
I find the comparison just as preposterous, but beyond that you are just playing with words. Lets see, do Panama (twice), Nicaragua, Cuba, Haiti, Bolivia remind you of anything? And I am not even going beyond Western Hemisphere yet. US has meddled in the business of many countries and often with force. And however covert that force was, it was force nevertheless and for questionable reasons at best. If you are going to defend your own country, an honorable deed in my opinion, you should know not only its good deeds but the bad ones as well. At least it won’t seem like you listened to too much propaganda as a child.
Good Lord people
What the hell is wrong with you people reading through this is like listening to teenagers fighting on the play ground over who’s dad is the coolest. So what the French helped us in WWII how many times have we saved your asses? Frankly i don’t give a shit if the French create their own words hell we do it all the time here in the U.S. I mean who had ever heard of an iPod twenty years ago I mean seriously and think before that no one new what the internet was and before that was the computer and before that it was the automobile. I mean what the hell can’t we all just get along.
Wow. Just wow.
Such vehemence. People are so hostile.
One Last thing
“And rather it is proper or not, the world economy does depend upon America. And in only a little over 200 years we have grown to become the most powerful nation in the world. Why did you people let that happen? “
Does money and power equal happiness? America has the strongest economy – no objections there. Why did that happen? It just may be that other cultures don’t value money and power as much. I don’t think other cultures systematically envy America’s power. I do think that many Americans think that’s the case (not to mention those who think they own the world). Everybody wishes they’d be American, right? Well I have my doubts.
I have respect for America and Americans, but I’m not about to move there. I’m rather proud of who I am and although I would probably have a much greater income in America, I like the quality of life where I am now. Far from all the media hype, political mess. I value peace more than power and money.
There’s also the theory that because of globalisation, the rich get richer while the poor get poorer, no matter how many billions spent in foreign aid.
There is so much wealth in America, that even the “intellectually challenged” get a great share of power. To me that’s what’s scary.
There’s nothing more depressing than to watch a bunch of millionnaires act like clowns – especially when it affects the whole planet.
Now how did we go from computer tech terms to this??!
Why always just WWII?
It’s days like this make me embarassed to be a US citizen. Fellow citizens, take a moment out of your week and read a book about what the French did during WW1. You know, that really big war before WW2? Then think about how quickly the next war was at their doorsteps. American citizens have NEVER been faced with such a challenge. When you’ve lost so many of your people to one war, who is left to fight the next? The bravery and courage of the French in the face of of WW1 far out shines whatever hollow critisism you may lob at them for some perceived slight you feel after WW2.
Oh, and what the hell does this have to do with email names again?
better than fighting
We are all getting along HaHa, we’re having a civilised debate about our differences and nobody has to get nailed to a tree, burned or thrown to lions. That’s progress.
What’s coming out of it for me is:
1) We are ALL victims of propaganda. A globalised communication system like the internet and this forum mean we can finally see that for as long our histories have been written we are systematically lied to by our own governments and poisoned with prejudice against other creeds.
2) There is a DEEP, DEEP insecurity and lack of self-esteem amongst Americans right now. I suspect the reasons are very complex, but you don’t improve someones self esteem by pointing out their weaknesses at every juncture. Although it’s hard to deal with the inflated and pompous comments that some people spout by way of compensation.
3) My Dad is cooler than your Dad. 🙂
smoke
Where there’s smoke there’s smoke. And boy is there a lot of smoke!
“We didn’t sit on the fence. America didn’t want to join a war that wasn’t ours. Whenever we did, for what ever reason, we did save your ass. The war was NOT turning. Check your history.”
How wrong you are. The Nazis were running out of steam before America even entered the war. If YOU will read your history, you’ll see that Hitler’s forces had gotten their asses thoroughly kicked trying to invade the Soviet Union in February of 1943, just a couple of months after we declared war on them, but before we’d actually entered combat. That was just the latest of a number of failed attempts to invade Russia, all of which were devastating for the Nazis, and most of which were before entered the war. Add to that the fact that Hitler had stopped producing weapons and recruiting troops the previous year, meaning that their defeat at the hands of the Russians resulted in a MAJOR loss of both, and a longer period of time spent replenishing those losses, and the defeat of the Nazi’s was guaranteed. WWII would have been won by the Allies with or without America’s help. What America did was bring the war to a closing sooner, and with fewer lives lost, than it would have been otherwise, and it is a notable achievement, but America was not the savior it tries to pretend to be. I think we as a country feel guilty that we waited for so long to enter the battle that we have make our contribution seem greater that it actually was via revisionist history.
The Soviets are the ones who really won the war. They spent most of the war playing defensive, mainly defending their borders while building up their forces. The Allies, including America, had entered the war half-prepared. When the Russians entered offensive action in 1944, they were fully prepared while the rest of the Allies, America included, were running out of steam. (The USSR lost more people than any other nation on either side, the US included, and lost them in the shortest period of time. That says it all.) In the final days of the war, all America and Britain really did was play clean up. Russia ended the war by capturing Berlin. Too bad that led to the Iron Curtain and all.
As to the issue of France’s surrender, it was a smart move. When Hitler invaded, France was just crawling out a depression. They had neither the manpower nor the money to mount a fight, If they’d attempted to fight back with an army, they would have been crushed, and France would have been destroyed beyond recovery. Launching a guerrilla resistance against the Nazi’s was a brilliant idea. Without the French Resistance, the Allies may not have won either. They delivered invaluable intelligence, and kept a good portion of the Nazi forces occupied, and therefore kept them out of the larger fight, troops which otherwise may very well have turned the tide of the war. If the Nazi’s would’ve had just a few more troops, they may have been able to win. If France had fought it out and been destroyed, Germany wouldn’t have had to commit as many forces to an occupation, and would have more to fight the larger battles, which meant they may have been able to win.
Re: Obsidian
I wonder who helped organize the French Resistance? You need to read up on the OSS. You know the precursor of the CIA.
Re: Re: Obsidian
Jess, the OSS were an espionage, counter-espionage and saboteur outfit. They did not *help* the Resistance other than incidentally being on the same side, they merely observed and relayed intelligence. Spies do not risk engaging in open combat or mixing in insurgency groups that may be compromised. They certainly did not *organise* in any capacity, the French knew the situation on the ground far better than any American, and they aquired all their weaponary from the enemy. Incidentally the OSS were largely trained by and following the example of David Sterlings outfit
the SAS, who had been snapping at the heels of the German army since early in WW2. If you have any references that indicate the OSS *organised* the French resistance please share the link with us.
Re: Re: Re: Obsidian
Look under Jedburgh teams.
Re: Re: Re:2 Obsidian
here’s the link: http://history.sandiego.edu/gen/WW2Timeline/oss3.html
Re: Re: Re:2 Obsidian
Yeah, good research Jess. It seems the OSS working with SOE, the SAS and the Dutch SF did actually lead small groups of resistance fighters. They probably provided training too. The operations were based out of Milton and Hereford as I suspected. But remember – this was an international effort to help the French sap the German occupants by sabotage, not a grandiose scheme in which the USA “organised” the resistance. They played a role alongside the Polish, Dutch, Belgian and British units.
Re: Re: Re:3 Obsidian
I didn’t say that it was a one nation show. I said that without critical supplies and training that was provided by the U.S. it the outcome would have been in that much more doubt. As a history buff I know that without all the efforts by all the nations resisting germany we would have lost. The Allied victory was a very near thing.
Re: Re: Re:4 Obsidian
“The Allied victory was a very near thing.”
Yeah, firsthand from my grandmother (may she rest in peace) –
She was a carpenter in 1945 (women did all the “mens” jobs in the war)
building fake spitfires so that when the Luftwaffen spy planes came
they thought we had hundreds of spitfires left. In reality I think we were down to single figures, like 5 or 10 actual planes… how close is that?
Re: Re: Re:5 Obsidian
Yeah, firsthand from my grandmother (may she rest in peace) –
She was a carpenter in 1945 (women did all the “mens” jobs in the war)
building fake spitfires so that when the Luftwaffen spy planes came
they thought we had hundreds of spitfires left. In reality I think we were down to single figures, like 5 or 10 actual planes… how close is that
Soviet manufacturing ramped up towards the end of ’43 and went into full force mid ’44. They didn’t have fake anything, as far as a lot of weapons went, they actually got more sophisticated although a lot of ingenuity was also at play. So yeah, it was close, Nazis would’ve lost sooner or later. The question was just who was to divide up the Europe afterwards.
If the French Hate America and love their beloved French Fries, why are them French defending their language in English?
I suppose French is so perfect and English is B@stardizing it, then why learn a b@5tardized language to begin with?
Funny thing, the French love their language so much that they have to learn new technologies and developments outside and try to french-ize it. Sad thing is, they’re so busy doing that, that they can’t create innovation or technology themselves.
History is history, WWII is old news, don’t get stuck on it.
If the French Hate America and love their beloved French Fries, why are them French defending their language in English?
I suppose French is so perfect and English is B@stardizing it, then why learn a b@5tardized language to begin with?
Funny thing, the French love their language so much that they have to learn new technologies and developments outside and try to french-ize it. Sad thing is, they’re so busy doing that, that they can’t create innovation or technology themselves.
History is history, WWII is old news, don’t get stuck on it.
le freakin sigh, dudes.
My group of humans is better than your group of humans!
Re: le freakin sigh, dudes.
It’s not as if I’m scornful of the French. I’m scornful of those who start talking of history and have really no idea what happened behind the scenes. The French Resistance did beautifully. However, most of the cell were trained and led by OSS recruited agents. To say that American’s weren’t needed is as ignorant as saying that we just went after Saddam Hussein because of oil. I mean it couldn’t have been the fact that he was supplying terrorists with materiel and money with the caveat that it be used on American soil. The fact that we were responsible for putting such a twisted figure into power sure didn’t have anything to do with that as well. And about the french coming up with french names to technology? Most countries are content to let their language evolve naturally. Only the bureacratic and arrogant mind of the french government would consider trying to control it.
France!
I surrender!
U-S-A U-S-A
America is the only true nation!
Other countries suck!
America is what matters!
Who cares about the planet – US economy is what matters!
If it’s not from the 52 states, it’s meaningless!
U-S-A U-S-A !!
America owns outer space too! No other country can be allowed there – only America can be trusted.
(goes without saying… duh)
Who cares about France, they don’t even speak English! (poor morons… can’t even speak – ha!)
God bless America! (and no one else..!)
Woooohooo!!!!
We OWN Earth – don’t get in our way!
If it wasn’t for America, everyone on Earth would be dying! (idiots – can’t even survive without us)
Little known fact: Americans built Paris! (I sware!)
Pyramids??? American!
Ahhh… My work here is done here – if they’re not American, they can’t read anyway….
This is almost too stupid to stand...
The partisanship in the conversations here make it one of the most laughable stories I’ve ever seen on TechDirt. I’m not even sure why they published this, unless they are working up to having a “Useless Political Rhetoric” section like you find on Digg and /.
I am particularly entertained by the people that are stuck in the cycle of telling us all about how awful the United States is. Whether it’s those that barely have enough English language skills to write a coherent sentence, or it’s the people that don’t have any actual understanding of history, I would hate to try having an actual conversation with you.
Your ignorance seems to be your strong suit, although I wish I believed you were actually just ignorant. Unfortunately for all of us, you may actually be stupid instead of ignorant (if you don’t understand the difference then I suggest you buy a dictionary).
I do have a special place in my heart for those of you like “misanthropic humanist” and “sceptic”. You guys (if there are actually two different people with such low levels of intelligence here) are amongst the elite in the world. The fact that you can spew such idiocy as…
Yeah, seriously, do check your history. First of all, check your stats on which direction the Eastern Front was moving in 1944. You’ll find out that it was moving West, that would in the direction of Germany.
to support your argument that France was somehow helping in the fight almost made me fall out of my chair with laughter.
Well, I could go on all day pointing out your inability to form any rational reason for hating the United States, but I don’t really have the time to try teaching history and language to those that probably wouldn’t be able to grasp the concepts anyway.
Re: This is almost too stupid to stand...
All you have to offer are cynicism and personal attacks.
You have added nothing to any good to the debates here,
Take the cloak off your mirror and have a good look at yourself.
Re: This is almost too stupid to stand...
Yeah, seriously, do check your history. First of all, check your stats on which direction the Eastern Front was moving in 1944. You’ll find out that it was moving West, that would in the direction of Germany.
CloakedMind said: to support your argument that France was somehow helping in the fight almost made me fall out of my chair with laughter.
After spending three paragraphs of spewing insults about the intelligence of others, you yourself prove lack thereof by misunderstanding the first quote you use. How pathetic is that? Care to point which part of my argument was about the French helping fight? The point being made was that another person falsely believed that everyone was losing to the Nazi Germany when D-day came. It was even false on the day when Operation Overlord was just beginning to develop. Care to prove me wrong?
You are so quick to claim that I hate America, but can you really find where I profess my hate for it? Being more knowledgeable about history and knowing its dark sides does not count as “hate.” It’s just my knowing what country I live in (oh yes, I live in US). Of course, you will try to twist it now to still make me out to be anti-American and all. But knowing the negatives of own country is what helps people make it better. Apparently you rather just pretend everything is peachy until everything does become as bad as others claim it is. So yeah, while I try to improve on what’s wrong, you can sit on your ass and call me US-hater, I’ll make sure you still get the same benefits of living here that I do.
P.S. Sceptic is from the Latin word scepticus. Skeptic is from Greek word skeptikos. Take your pick. If you are really trying hard to make a French joke, here is some help: yeah, French is a Latin based language.
French Fries
French Fries?? They’re AMERICAN FRIES. Cmon – you knew it didn’t you?
Let’s just nuke France. Heck, let’s nuke Europe.
Why not nuke everything but America – everyone will then live in piece at last!
Lives abroad are useless anyway… have you noticed their smell too?? whoa…
Oops
Sorry my typing sucks
Oops
Sorry my typing sucks
“They played a role alongside the Polish, Dutch, Belgian and British units.”
Oh COME ON… these other folks can’t do anything without being supervised by Americans… that’s nonsense!
Have you ever heard a Dutch guy speak English? it’s like they have a permanent cold and speak through their noses! They can’t possibly be effective…
People outside USA are not as smart. (especially Belgians… even the French make fun of them… nuf said…)
Cuba Anyone?
Does anyone feel like talking about Guantanamo Bay?
If that doesn’t yell freedom, I don’t know what does. Freedom is for Americans. The detainees there don’t deserve a fair trial – they’re not American!
i think
that this entire thread should be reset. somehow or another, the replies switched from joking about the french government’s stupidity to a full fledged, hit-by-hit discussion of post WW2 attitudes and their relations to actions today.
how may i ask? someone probably in the late teens, early twenties posts decided to make a stupid comment about a war and how America is superior. mike, can you just delete all this crap already?
Re: i think
“mike, can you just delete all this crap already?”
It’s the most lively and interesting thread we had all week, stop being a spoilsport. Plus I actually learned something new today. Just because you don’t like it – butt out!
Sacrebleu indeed!! (good one!)
How would you say sacrebleu in English?
Darnblue!
WHAT A WASTE OF FRENCH TAX PAYERS MONEY!
Another reason why the current french government and President of France Chirac need to go ASAP, because they are elitest snobs in my opinion, of course.
cant we all just get along
the past is the past and its not gonna change people! so why cant you stop arguing about it with strangers on the internet, when you could be out debating and fighting for the future of your nationa and all others. (No one really cares what bad things you have to say about eachother- it does nothing at all)
Hoo-rah! 100th post!
ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US!
all i want to know is how to spell make in french
i want franch to english
Saturday, 24 May, 2008 12:08 AM
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