RIAA Following MPAA's Lead In Brainwashing Kids
from the why-do-schools-accept-this? dept
For a few years now, the MPAA has had a program to “educate” children by sending industry shills into schools to give extremely one-sided presentations about copyright issues. We’ve never quite figured out why schools agree to have clearly biased industry representatives go into schools for educational purposes. It’s the equivalent of having oil industry representatives give kids lessons on environmentalism. They may be great for one side of a debate, but to suggest it’s unbiased information is a stretch. However, it appears that the RIAA is joining its sister organization by putting together an educational campaign for universities that (as you’d expect) is also completely one-sided and ignores important things like “fair use.”
The RIAA is being criticized for this approach, and are fighting back with ridiculous claims: “First, we were told we should not enforce our rights. Now we are told education is wrong, too. We won’t accept such a do-nothing approach. We’ll continue to work with respected higher-education groups to engage students to think critically about these issues.” There are so many problems with that statement, it’s difficult to know where to start. First, the reason they were told “not to enforce” their rights was because it’s bad for business to make all your customers feel like they’re criminals. Second, no one is saying that “education” is wrong. They’re simply saying that one-sided biased information presented as objective, factual information is a problem. Finally, the idea that this educational attempt is about getting students to “think critically about these issues” is just flat out laughable. It would be great if the RIAA wanted to take part in an actual critical look at issues concerning copyright, but every time people try, the industry ignores what they say and claims that everyone just wants to steal from them.
Comments on “RIAA Following MPAA's Lead In Brainwashing Kids”
ugh...
with the shills again… you can’t use the word shill… all i ever think is that damn simpsons episode and i’ll be damned if i’m gonna do that again on here so that word is off limits 😛
But..
all we really want to do is steal from them
on topic though...
now that i’ve actually read through the article… the mpaa going to schools to “teach” kids is understandable… brainwash them while they’re young… but universities? does the riaa have their heads THAT far up their asses? the “riaa is the devil who only wants money to fill its already full pockets” paradigm is too engrained in our heads at this point… why don’t they just knock on my door and try to educate me here, instead, while i peruse through my 40 gig music hd… 😛
riaa
that’s not the worst of what they do. At least they’re spending their own money there. What bugs me is when they want to use our police and our courts to bust us. They would make more money if they stopped all the enforcement and lowered their price five fold. At that price, it’d be easier for most people to buy it than to download it. Their margins would still be high and people would spend more money than they do now. But it’s not good enough for them to be wealthy, they need to show how powerful they are too. That’s why I’ll never buy music until they lower the price by 80 to 90 percent.
Hey Kids!
You can grab our films online for free, but don’t do it because we don’t like it.
why...
“Why would we use our brains or be ethical, moral or just when we can use your courts and your own money to harass the crap outta you and make ourselfs richer by seeming the good guy?”
I swear the RIAA and MPAA by far have the most rediculous business models and sales approach than any company I have ever seen.This get them while their young crap will go over about as well as telling kids to not have sex till they get married.It’s like “Hey Mikey we know your only 6 but we want you to know now that if you download music for free off the internet you will burn in hell”.Now we don’t wanna burn in hell do we boys and girls.
I just LOVE coming to these quasi-intellectual, college/post-college sites to read what “Really” matters to you kids. “Oh, the RIAA and MPAA are trying to STOP us from having free music and movies! Oh boo hoo! Now I won’t have anything to entertain me!!” Grow up, Children.
Copyright laws are in place for a reason. Just because you and your buddies decided to rip all your cd’s and MP3s to a database and open it to the public for free, DOESN”T MAKE IT RIGHT!!! It’s still stealing. Just the same as if you five finger discounted it from your local music store. Mebbe when you grow up and actually start contributing to society, then watch as your hard work get’s messed up by someone else you might understand.
Jesus, Americans…. all they want is to be entertained and eat hotpockets for the rest of their lives. No wonder the “Most powerful country in the world” is getting it’s ass handed to it by a bunch of half educated religous punks.
Re: Re:
Just because you and your buddies decided to rip all your cd’s and MP3s to a database and open it to the public for free, DOESN”T MAKE IT RIGHT!!! It’s still stealing.
No. It *might* be copyright infringment, depending on who owns the copyright on the files in queston, or if said files are copyrighted at all. I could rip all my Beethoven and Strauss CDs and share them, just as I could my copy of “Night of the Living Dead.”
Just the same as if you five finger discounted it from your local music store.
No, it isn’t. It would be “just the same” if I had a magic wand and went into my local music store and magically *made an exact duplicate* of something and walked out with it, leaving the original in place. You are confusing intellectual property with real property.
Re: Re: Re:
Yeah but “Real World Rick” has something to say boy and girls. Apparantly those of us in the world who disagree with Mr. RWR couldn’t possibly have a point.
Hey Rick! You sound about as wise as GW and as out-of-touch with the “Real World” as my Grandma (94yrs Monday – wait, even she is more with it).
Grow up children?
Lol. Bring something debatable to the table and show us how wrong we are for standing up against corporate bullies rather than using the same tired, unintelligent arguments that only work on grade-school children and Baby-Boomer executives and polliticians.
The rest of us will be here, waiting for you to say something that might pursuade us that you have a clue.
Re: Ripping != copyright infringement != theft
As has been stated so clearly elsewhere, the “downloading=theft” argument simply does not hold water.
I have about 16GB of high-quality MP3s. All are either from CDs I own or from paid download services.
I don’t share files (except for the occasional song, as permitted by fair use laws).
I don’t do DRM – I will NOT have the music business “manage” my Digital rights out of existence to protect their outmoded and dying business model.
Those songs I do download I eventually delete or purchase.
That’s my “real world”.
So… are you calling me a thief, or are you trying to turn me into one?
Re: Re:
How is it stealing, stealing assumes the other party no longer has the item that was taken…this is copyright infringement, because you copied something with the authority to do it…It’s not stealing, but it is still wrong
The really real world
Well Rick, the real point here is not that we want all our music free on a silver platter. The point is that the industry refuses to change its business model and adapt. Instead they would prefer to litigate and “brainwash” people. I KNOW that downloading music I don’t own an original copy of or didn’t buy from a licensed online outlet is illegal. I KNOW that. I’m not complaining about that. My problem is the industry trying to lock down what I buy. I want to be able to put it on my iPod, or on my computer, or any other device that is designed to let me take my music where I want when I want. Instead of letting me do this they want to educate me so that I will only listen to their music how THEY want me to because they are control freaks and they know their business model is dying. Can I blame them for wanting to make tons of money? Absolutely not. Who doesn’t want to be rich? Do I think its ok to get and stay rich by making your customers feel like criminals? No. THAT is WRONG.
Rick has a warped view
Rick, I think Anonymous Coward hit the nail on the head. I don’t go to sites and “steal” musice or videos. However, I do go to legit download sites and pull back demos of artist and I buy all my music this way – directly from the artist.
I want to be able to play music I purchased any damn place I feel like it. No, I don’t share my music, but I encourage people to go to places like music.download.com and check out the various artst there.
BTW Rick, I’m not a kid either – try 58 years old
This is nothing new. Remember the “Don’t Copy that floppy” Rap Video.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4837609090332617729
good music
i’m fed up with the music these days. it’s either country, dirty rap, or crappy pop. nohting really good. modern/alt rock was good a few years back, but now….meh.
my new liking is underground electronic…namely trance house and progressive, with some industrial in there. (although electric goth/goth rock is pretty cool)
i find it hard to find these genre’s in any “mainstream” store…either brick and mortar or online.
i’m always looking for new stuff, and places like m.d.c are a great way to open up a bunch of new artists. then depending on how the samples are, i’d be willing to purchase tracks.
HAHAHAHA, They will try anything to sustain their old dead business model!
Stands to reason though, hollywood’s pretty socialist as it is. Which is fine for them, as long as they are in control, lol — I don’t think it’ll last though
What's the fasination with this stuff?
I’m still trying to understand why I would want to wear a little box with wires going into my head. It looks like the most uncomfortable, annoying and distracting way possible to listen to music.
Plus, there’s no bass.
Re: What's the fasination with this stuff?
I can tell you have not listened to the “Little box that plugs into your ears” if you are saying there is no bass!! Come on…come along little boy, join the 21st centry and get a clue.
Oh and while were here
……… oh and while we’re, we have a warrant to check out all the school computers for illegal music……..blah blah blah
Wait a second...
Are you telling me that the RIAA is going to do this “teaching” at colleges? Didn’t they suggest to a student to drop out so that she could pay the (BS) fine that they charged her with? … classic.
If the RIAA has its way, we won’t have any students left in universities. You know… since all college-age kids are thieves who whine about not being able download things for free without paying for them. And they should all go to jail and/or be shot. Right, Real world Rick? Right buddy? Eh? You’re with me on this, right?
Think before you post...
It’s the equivalent of having oil industry representatives give kids lessons on environmentalism.
Perhaps it is the equivalent. Did you realize that 80% of all renewable tech research funding is provided by the oil industry? The three largest manufactureres of photovoltaic panels are Oil companies – British Petrolium, Royal Dutch (Shell) and Texaco.
I can see how they are similar-ish. A company which is out to make a profit is having people (literally) steal from it. They may not be losing money as they claim they are, and they certainly should take a more serious approach to electronic media distribution; but that doesn’t make criminal actions any less criminal.
If you were fornicating in public (which is a crime for good reason) and someone raped your partner, wouldn’t you still expect them to go to jail even though you were doing something you shouldn’t (or weren’t doing something you should)? This is a far more extreme comparisson I know; but the idea is similar.
The actions of the victim don’t excuse the actions of the perpetrator. There is this thing called Knowledge – perhaps you should acquire it. Intelligence helps too, but we shouldn’t expect the moon here.
Re: Think before you post...
well… mabe the oil industry has figured out that they SHOULD adapt and change their business model… unlike the RIAA and the MPAA. MAYBE they understand that fossil fuels are NOT the future, and their investements in renewable energy technoligies are their way of laying the foundation for gouging us later. You can’t believe that they’re spending tons of money out of the goodness of their hearts – profit IS STILL THEIR MOTIVATION. Assume that at some point 50% of cars on the road are electric. You think the oil industry is going to sit by and let the utilities get all that money? The fact that that all these cars run on electricity means that their owners are not buying gas (directly).. so their customer base gets smaller. They see dollar signs… if they spend money now to build systems that don’t involve tapping the ground and refining crude (EXPENSIVE) to generate the same amount of energy… you think they’ll pass that savings along to us? WRONG. See they’re investing in their own future/pocketbooks – they spend the money now to design systems that are cheaper to operate, yet they charge the same rate to the end user – they INCREASE in their profits. Wrong as that may seem, at LEAST they’re able to look ahead and adapt to what could be the future – whereas the RIAA/MPAA don’t have such vision and resort to scare tactics/extortion to achiever their goal.
Re: Think before you post...
Did you realize that 80% of all renewable tech research funding is provided by the oil industry?
Does that mean they would present an unbiased educational program on environmentalism? I don’t think so…
They may not be losing money as they claim they are, and they certainly should take a more serious approach to electronic media distribution; but that doesn’t make criminal actions any less criminal.
No, it doesn’t… which is why we’ve made it clear we do not advocate breaking the law and downloading unauthorized music.
However, you miss the point of every post we make here. It’s about helping the industry recognize they can do much better (and even make more money) by embracing new technologies and distribution methods.
Furthermore, the point of this post was to ask why they get to educate kids from a very biased standpoint.
As for the rest of your comment, I have no idea what it has to do with the topic, other than trying to insult people for no good reason (which, by the way, tends to hurt, not help, your credibility).
Fair use Vs. unreasonable sale terms
Whenever you purchase something, it is (was) understood that you were free to do as you wished with the item. This has changed to a “per use” philosophy on and hidden in the coattails of the anti-piracy frenzy. It started with software and worked it’s way into music.
I use national codes in my line of work. When I need to use specific charts, tables or whatever in the field, I photocopy those items and use them where needed. Of course they are never loaned or sold or traded but they are copied as needed. This is fair use and what everyone considers reasonable.
With that said, the issue of fair and personal use must not be confused with the wholesale handing out of billable intellectual property.
Allowing this misinformation activity to happen in schools is an error.
the little box is quite cool. it’s convient. i don’t have to carry a huge hunk of plastic and metal that weights 40 pounds (35 of which are the bateries need to run the thing)
plus bass isn’t that important, but then again, i don’t have cornrows that need to vibrate at some ultra low frequency…
A free for all, fuckem' all!
AMEN!!! Great Article techdirt
The RIAA is a bunch or worthless pussies that need to be destroyed by the rest of our courupt political system. Shitcan that damn agency and have a download galore in their name.
One sided? What’s so one sided about telling kids NOT TO STEAL?
Stop trying to rationalize your thievery by complaining about the poor “business model” of the record companies. Yeah, they are behind the curve but that doesn’t mean you get to steal their product until they catch up.
Re: One sided?
If that were the whole intent of their message it would be fine.
I pay school taxes so my kids can be educated.
No so some douche can waste their time on his employer’s tax write-off!
Re: Re:
Hey Stopstealling RIAA Shill,
Go Home! Because, your colors are showing.
Either that or your I.Q. is SO LOW you can’t discern the difference between theft and copyright infringement.
Re: Re:
One sided? What’s so one sided about telling kids NOT TO STEAL?
Well, one, it’s not stealing. It may be copyright infringement, but that’s different. If you want to discuss copyright infringement, you should do so in a larger context, including what fair use involves, and alternative copyright issues like creative commons and the public domain.
But, that’s not what happened here. And the fact that they position it as stealing, again shows why this is a biased piece of work.
Stop trying to rationalize your thievery by complaining about the poor “business model” of the record companies. Yeah, they are behind the curve but that doesn’t mean you get to steal their product until they catch up.
Again, we have never advocated downloading or uploading unauthorized content. And we will not. The point of this post, though, was that the industry should not be allowed to present “educational material” like this without a fair counterpoint.
Re: Re:
Hey! Dumbass! It’s NOT STEALING. You idiots are really annoying. Don’t you bother to think for yourselves? Oh, wait, you don’t have to – you just have to know how to read.
Stealing != Copyright Infringment.
Copyright Infringment != Stealing
Oops… sorry. Is that hard for you to understand?
Re: Re: tarded
Sounds like Lars really was an asshole! Perhaps now that his carreer is over he can thank the RIAA for the chump change residuals from their crappy-assed Bob Rock compositions.
Piss off enough customers and they’ll piss on you!
Piracy my Pickle
I say when we pay the music industry for a product, we also inform they how they are allowed to use that money. “Now this is only to pay employees”. Makes sense by their logic..
re: Stop Stealing's comment
::looks around at everyone:: ‘salright if I take this? Thanks.
What’s wrong? Because it’s one sideded! It’s not stealing. It’s been shown over and over again, ad nauseum, that it’s not. So that’s whats wrong and why it’s one sided. Because how the RIAA portrays it is wrong, wrong, wrong and wrong some more.
If the RIAA would teach kids that copyright infringment is wrong, and then show how downloading a copy of a song that you already have purchased really is infringment, then fine. Let the class begin. But that hasn’t happened yet. And doubtful that it ever will.
I used to advocate loudly against piracy. Now, because of the behavior of the **AA’s I believe copyright laws should be utterly gutted.
i gree with #25. I’m paying school tax so the kids can learn. however, i believe the article states it’s college students they are after.
with that being said….tuition dollars shouldn’t go there. there are plenty of other classes on morals and ethics in the college setting. focus more on underwater basket weaving.
‘At one point, the narrator tells viewers it’s okay for them to make a copy for themselves “as long as it’s for you.” ‘
Then how come the DRM in one of my CDs won’t let me rip my legally purchased music to my computer?
To the sage of morality who posted comment #22
Quote:
“One sided? What’s so one sided about telling kids NOT TO STEAL?
Stop trying to rationalize your thievery by complaining about the poor “business model” of the record companies. Yeah, they are behind the curve but that doesn’t mean you get to steal their product until they catch up.”
Is downloading music illegal? Yes. Plain and simple. Just like making a compilation tape is illegal, or recording ANYTHING on TV to your VCR. You dont own the programming, it’s not your production. But do you think twice about popping that tape in to record monday night football? NO. If you have a desktop background of any nature shot you’re stealing that photogrophers work. They didn’t give you consent to use it as your background. They only gave you consent to look at it on their website. But I dont see you advocating this point, nor see you making the 180 and never obtaining an illegal copy of media again. The only reason you’re for this side of the argument is because you’ve let the RIAA and music industry convince you that sharing music is wrong.
I’m sure someone could clarify this point more so than I, but music is an arrangement of sound thought to be freely available to anyone. You could take a super computer, put together every single possible combination of notes on every instrument and then copywright it all, thus meaning that no other single indvidual in the world would ever have the right to play music. It’s an artform and should be shared to everyone to further broaden their intellectual horizions.
All the RIAA and music industry do is keep artists from making the amount to money they should be able too from their work. Instead they have to whore themselves out for a mere 5 cents a CD while everyone else gets a nice fat cut of the profit.
Re: To the sage of morality who posted comment #22
Actually, recording things from TV to tape is legal, see the Betamax case. Also, I believe so is making yourself a compilation tape. That’s based on some early radio case.
Re: To the sage of morality who posted comment #22
Hey #32, there is a difference between downloading content that is not available to you except by un-authorized means and recording something that is publicly available for personal use. Monday Night Football recording is legal as long as you don’t profit from it by reselling.
I thing I use as a standard is simply – will someone loose money they should get because of something I am doing? Even though they still have the orginial version and I did not steal their only copy – I would deprive them of compensation for use of their work if I down loaded illegally.
I used to put on the eye patch and steal SW until I became a developer. Noe I tend to look at things differently.
OK so the **AA’s are hopelessly lost in their business model, but neither I nor you can make them change. Their stupidness does not give us the right to do something wrong. Pretty much their product sucks anyway
Re: To the sage of morality who posted comment #22
Is downloading music illegal? Yes.
No, no it isn’t. *Uploading* *copyrighted* music files which you do not have the express permission of the copyright holder to distribute is illegal. I could upload/download all the public domain and Creative Commons music and films I want all day long and it’s all perfectly legal.
And yes, IAALS (law student)
I Steal Music.
There is a lot of discussion on posts like this as to what constitutes stealing and what is merely rebelling against an aging record business. I will say this right now – I Steal Music. I take it without paying and I have no intention of purchasing the CDs. This applies to bands I am merely sampling as well as a few of my favorites.
Music is an artform. Art should be done for the sake of art, not cash, and if you look at the recent trends in the music industry, you’ll see that there are far too many bands churning out pure shit because they get paid for it. The RIAA supports this practice in full because it is how they get paid as well. Until the music industry regains the passion it once had, I’ll continue to download my music.
Now, if my favorite band comes to town, I’ll pay to see them in an instant. I’ll buy a shirt, a poster, possibly even the CD, so long as all the money goes to the band for performing. As far as I’m concerned, the RIAA won’t see a damn dime from me so long as I breathe.
RIAA…
Really Irritating and A$$holish…
Illegal does not equal wrong
So to all you assholes that are calling us theives lets take a look at something critically. One, filesharing is only illegal because we have some stupid outdated laws that say it is. Just because its illegal does not mean it is wrong. Lets take a look back in history and see if we can find some examples… Hmm, I think I have a good one. Slavery, that was perfectly legal and terribly wrong. Lets think about how people tried to change that. Hmm, secretly transporting slaves to the North. Wait! That was stealing! Those people that operated the underground railroad are now are heroes. Im not saying that pirates will ever be regarded as heroes but you have to realize something. Its only illegal cause the current laws say it is. These laws are outdated and need to change. The RIAA and MPAA are fighting change.
To all my fellow pirates out there: Keep it up! Copy an Share! We will force them to change!
Re: Illegal does not equal wrong
to 35 or who ever it was, how can you possible compare filesharing to slavery, worst metaphor ever.
haha I wtfbbqpwnd ju n00b, go back to school and bask in my awesome awesomeness stupid fuck, I hope you die of prostate cancer and all your kids have to see you suffer ahaha dumbshit. fuck you and your retarded metaphors.
Re: Re: Illegal does not equal wrong
To anonymous coward #49.. appropriate name for someone who wont leave their own when flaming someone.
Your awesome awesomeness apparently excludes intelligence. If you had a functioning nueron you might be able to understand the comparisson. I was not saying filesharing is the same as slavery. What I was hoping you might grasp is that the two things had something in common… that at one point a law said that they were illegal and the fact that that law existed did not make it wrong. Maybe next time leave a counter opinion or some actual thought(if youve had one) rather than saying I should die for making a comment you failed to understand.
Fuck you.. there should be a law against people of your IQ reproducing.. that law would actually help our society.
RIAA of course
I used to download all kinds of illegal music, I won’t lie. I had up to 16GB worth of it. I stopped about 2 to 3 years ago and not for reasons you would think. I got tired of getting crappy copied music. Either bad RIPs or cut off downloads. I then just recently removed all of my music and only reloaded music from CD’s I own. My complaint about the RIAA and there methods are that they want us to pay each time we use this music and it’s not fair to the consumer. I should be able to copy this music as many times as I like and put it on as many devices as I like. If I have a private party I should be able to make a mix and let every one listen which I’m sure the RIAA would disapprove of. When is this going to stop. I don’t think it’s the RIAA that’s actually the prblem though. It’s the court system that has too many loop holes that allows this. The court system is a black and white way of thinking. Lawyers read through text and look for pertinant information to rule out certain governing factors that allow them to make their point and along with it a paycheck. Lawyers get paid to do whatever they are told so it’s in their best interest to do so. We need a lawyer. A class action lawsuit formed by we the people to take back what is riightfully ours against the RIAA. Any lawyers out there?
Oh, one more thing
By purchasing their product we are sending them a message that we condone what they are doing. The fact is the I, we, dont. So why should we send that message?
#37
Quote:
“can tell you have not listened to the “Little box that plugs into your ears” if you are saying there is no bass!!”
If you use earphones, there’s no bass, if you headphones there can be. If you have a 5.1 surround reciever hooked up to 500w speakers then you’re golden.
What I believe the poster was trying to say is that downloaded music tends to be really poor quality, and to the people who are passionate about music understand that quality trumps convienece anyday of the week. So songs played directly from CD’s (or rips from cds) sound the best on an actual stereo system.
Familiar?
They’re simply saying that one-sided biased information presented as objective, factual information is a problem.
Sounds like the presentation of the theory of evolution.
Re: Familiar?
Uh, no actually. The theory of evolution is a theory based on empirical observation and logical deduction. Nowhere did it say “god didn’t make us”. It just says that life evolve(d/s). So, yeah. I’d say it’s quite objective, factual information.
“They’re simply saying that one-sided biased information presented as objective, factual information is a problem.” This means that the RIAA is stating its opinionated interpretation of the (questionably) applicable laws as fact. And, I’m sorry. There is no way that they can take a stance on this issue and remain neutral. They are clearly biased, and with obvious good reason.
They just happen to be wrong. And that’s not just my opinion. That happens to be a rather common opinion. And it’s going to be the opinionated interpretation of those laws by the court system that will finally answer the question.
So no. Not like the theory of evolution at all.
no, they don’t claim evolution is the end all be all theory. they said they can’t prove where the first thing came from. PROVE where it came from.
sure a book can say that this spooky man in the sky made dirt and the rest was history.
the great thing about science is that it knows no humility. scientist will admit when they are wrong.
inforce all laws????
yep current law says downloading music is illeagle, it’s Breaking the law, yet allowing ILLEAGLE immigrantion is ok, so why is one law good and the other law bad?? the RIAA and MPAA make a profile off the “good” law, the “bad” law cost’s ALL of us, so yes lets worry about a copied song and lets pay to let people breaking the law get free medical, educational and Social security Benifits. I mean it IMPORTANT that you pay for Music, right, it’s Life thretening ( sarcasm)
after 45 posts..
I have read each of you rip on each other.
I have read about what is and what is not stealing.
I have read that music should be free for the art of it.
I have read things from as far as oil to religion.
I read the original article and it states an educational program aimed at universities.
Now I will break it down once and for all.
Musicians DO need to be paid. You are stealing if you didnt buy at least 1 copy.
You should fight to get rid of the **AA’s buy paying artists directly.
You cannot say stealing because something is outdated is “ETHICAL” stealing is an ethic and its accetably wrong by the majority.
You can record onto your personal media device any TV you can see and if you read the fine print it states “…no rebroadcast and not for money…” Otherwise record away, Thus music should be the same.
The last thing I want to say is that HD-Radio is sweet and so is XM or whomever you like. now… 150.00 US gets you a HD-Radio/XM personal reciever where you can listen to any type of music you like OH!! and did I mention these devices play MP3’s and record the music from the airwaves/sattelite directly into themselves and can be downloaded to your machine?
Now with XM you pay to listen every month and with HD-Radio its free(after first hardware price) So in the end its all about your ethic.
I buy my CD’s and I buy singles, I rip them to my media devices and I hate the RIAA and the MPAA but to end their riegn I leave it up to the artisit who by the way really needs to fight the record labels who are the real thieves not us.
Just putting in my 2 tracks worth
wow #49. i must hail at your amazing amzingness. hopefully you’ll get to run the country and make millions of dollars.
oh, and my friend Jesus wants to talk to you. will you let him in?
Chris on #37
of course there is bass… there isn’t bass that vibrates your whole body, but how the earbuds contact the ear, it only requires a fairly low db range to hear thumping bass… bass is a low end frequency that… bleh… before i even get into a rant… go get a dictionary and find out what bass really is… jackass
If is free....
If you can watch the video they have on their web site for free and order it for free, then why couldn’t you DOWNLOAD it for free?
Well, well, got some activity here… ok, let’s see where we are…
We seem to have two camps here: The It’s not stealing because the laws/and or “business model” is outdated. And…
The Yes, it’s stealing because it’s copywrighted material…
Let’s start with the first group. Outdated the laws may be… BUT, the laws are still in effect. Period. If it’s copyrighted, and YOU DON’T OWN THE COPYRIGHT or have permission to duplicate the copyrighted material… it’s stealing. As for confusing “intellectual property and real property” obviously that person hasn’t been checking the most recent cases concerning “intellectual” property. He would have found that ANY money generating property intellectual or otherwise are treated IN THE SAME WAY. In fact, all you have to do to see it is look at the recent suits against companies and individuals who sell virtual items, monies, and properties for real world dollars of of MMORPGs (such as World of Warcraft and Everquest). These items ar considered intellectual property and it is SOLEY in the relm of ownership of the respective game companies. They just licence you to use the items in-game.
Also, there are technologies out there that will help the music (and movie) industry maintain a level of control over THEIR media. Such as the X-chip and RMA imbedded programming.
I think, too, that an explanation needs to be given here about what it is that you are buying when you buy a CD, DVD, or MP3. You are not buying OWNERSHIP of the media, you are buying an original copy and an implied >personalpersonalOWN PERSONAL
Re: Re:
If it’s copyrighted, and YOU DON’T OWN THE COPYRIGHT or have permission to duplicate the copyrighted material… it’s stealing.
No, it’s not. You have just given the legal texbook description of copyright infringement, not theft.
As for confusing “intellectual property and real property” obviously that person hasn’t been checking the most recent cases concerning “intellectual” property. He would have found that ANY money generating property intellectual or otherwise are treated IN THE SAME WAY.
The Supreme Court of the United States disagrees with you. Please see DOWLING v. UNITED STATES, 473 U.S. 207 (1985).
Also, there are technologies out there that will help the music (and movie) industry maintain a level of control over THEIR media.
If I *buy* a CD or a DVD, *I* own it. It’s mine, not THEIRS. I didn’t rent it, I *bought* it.
Sorry.. to continue…
an implied personal use license to use that media for your OWN PERSONAL entertainment. This license extends to making backups for YOURSELF. That’s it. Nothing else. Period. You can see this for yourself by NOT FFWDing past the FBI warning at the beginning or the copyright clause at the end of any movie, or by reading the copyright clause on the inside cover of your CDs. You do NOT have the right to make copies that end up in ANYONE ELSE’S hands for whatever reason. If you are doing this, the music and movie companies have every right to try to take measures to stop you. And that includes making “One-sided” presentations to teach kids that copying and giving away/or selling those copies is wrong. There is NO LAW that says that anyone has to present an opposing or competing view when they teach or make a presentation. Hell, our Political and Religious systems are practically BASED on the principle of information control and one-sided views!!
As for the other group… you are right, IT IS STEALING.
Re: Re:
implied personal use license
No such thing. A “personal use license” on CDs and DVDs doesn’t exisit. You are making this up. When I buy a CD or a DVD, I own it. I didn’t license it or rent it; i bought it.
You do NOT have the right to make copies that end up in ANYONE ELSE’S hands for whatever reason.
Yes I do. I can make a copy of a CD and give it to my brother, or I can make a CD mix and give it to my girlfriend. I can also parts of a song or movie for research, criticism, or parody. This is all covered under the fair use doctrine.
And yes, IAALS (law student)
Ok, Now you two are just arguing semantics here… Yes you own the CD, DVD or whatever it is that you bought… you DON”T own the data/information that is contained on the CD, DVD, MP3. You are NOT buying the actual movie, album, song, whatever. You are buying an original copy and the authority to use it for YOUR OWN personal entertainment, as well as the authority to make personal backups of said material. You DO NOT get to…
“I can make a copy of a CD and give it to my brother, or I can make a CD mix and give it to my girlfriend.”
Making copies for anyone who hasn’t actually paid for it is NOT covered in the fair use laws. You find me an actual law, or court proceeding or something official that says you can make copies of copyrighted material and give it to someone else, for free or otherwise, and I’ll shut my mouth and say you are right.
Ok… after doing my own research I’ll have to admit that we are talking about copyright infringment Vs. Theft. And, I’ll admit that the courts have supported most of the fair use cases SO FAR…but, I have also noticed that every case so far WAS labelled theft and/or fraud the first time EVERY TIME, and only had it overturned after (usually) multiple appeals. Also, after consulting http://www.findlaw.com and a few others, it has become clear that the reason that the cases were overturned was because of the ambiguity and complexity of copyright law. Finally, I have also noticed that in every case that the defendants realized that there was some sort of inquiry by a law enforcement agency (IE FBI, Police, etc.), the defendants RAN. Every time.
I submit to you… If you feel that what you are doing is NOT wrong, or illegal, Why run?? If you really think that the laws SUPPORTS what you are doing, and there is nothing wrong with your activities, Why run?? Answer: Because they KNEW what they were doing was wrong, and that the law does NOT support them… it is just ambiguous. Maybe it’ll come out ok (IE they won’t go to jail), maybe it won’t. The laws and technology are catching up… I for one am glad. I don’t beileve that people should have free and unrestricted access to commercial works. (Art or otherwise) I do believe that there IS a time limit as to when something becomes public domain. What that limit is, I don’t know. RIAA, and MPAA have the right to control their data, and “intellectual Property”. But, I have to admit, technically, on this point you have more support than I do. :p
Oh, and I looked up, DOWLING v. UNITED STATES, 473 U.S. 207 (1985). It is one of the most controversial and disputed cases related to Copyright infringement and file sharing that exists. You make it sound like it overwhelmingly supports your view. If it was such a clear cut case, there wouldn’t be all the disputes. Plus, it’s over 20 years old… I have a feeeling that as things progress, you will find that the law begins to move towards the copyright holder and not the customer. Far be it from me to not admit when I am wrong tho.
Its disgusting
Yesterday I found this shop full of books, after further investigation it seems that its a state sponsered organisation that buys these books in, and then shares and lends them out to people for no fee, and with little regard to paying the copyright holders any additional fees. I was disgraced they called themselves a library, and they say that they are a pillar and foundation of our society.. bullshit they are just thieves. 😉
Funny how the left and right often come back in a big circle and almost meet again.
Re: Its disgusting
WHAT?!?! I should call the BWAA (Book Writers Association of America) and inform them that they will not be getting vast sums of money to give a pittance of to its contributors anymore, that way they will be able to stop it…
Wait… that one doesn’t exist…my bad, thats the RIAA/MPAA… I always get those confused
Thanks for the info. My father used to work for a social security disability company minnesota, but he got to old to keep working there. He was struck with Alzheimer?s disease and ? why am I telling you this? I don?t even know you people.