How Many Songs Must A Fan Buy, Before They Get Something For Free?
from the the-answer,-my-friend,-is-fifteen dept
While the record labels continue to insist that you “can’t compete with free” plenty of musicians keep showing that’s not at all true. For years we’ve been suggesting that one way an artist can compete with free is by selling “access.” That is, if you agree to pay for the music, you get early access to concert tickets, or perhaps even exclusive shows. It seems that big name musicians are starting to recognize this as well. Bob Dylan is the latest to go this route, offering those who pre-order his new album on iTunes first crack at concert tickets for his next tour. If so many musicians are recognizing that they’re selling the overall experience of the music, why is it that the big labels still have so much trouble seeing that they don’t need to sue everyone — just offer them more of what they want at a reasonable price? This is a big label release, of course, but the fact that it’s “big news” that they’re offering such a simple promotion so many years after it made sense to do so, shows just how behind the times the record labels continue to be.
Comments on “How Many Songs Must A Fan Buy, Before They Get Something For Free?”
I demand that they do that with videogames as well.
Each game has a certain one-time used number and after you accumulate enough of those number you can get a game for free.
First post?!
Re: Re:
“First post?!”
No. But at least you had more insight into the issue at hand than did xcetron.
Re: Re:
actually… no
haha
Do the Opposite!
Why not make the music cheap or as close to free as feasible, and then make your money selling concert tickets.
I mean, you will never find a way to keep music off the Internet. With all this hype about DRM, the bottom line is that you can always record the music coming out a speaker jack, ecode it, and then distribute it DRM free.
What you can’t freely distribute online is the experience of seeing your favorite artist or band performing live in a concert. I mean, even if the music is recorded at the concert and distributed for free, that is a far different experience then being in a crowd of people cheering the artist on and the effects of standing in that crowd and hearing the music live has on you.
In the end, as long as something can be easily copied or duplicated digitally, then it will be distributed easily online. But make a special edition CD with “physical” content, or live concerts cannot be dupliated digitally, and this is what people will pay money for.
It will also separate the one hit wonders from the true musicians that believe in what they are doing. You can’t sell concert tickets to a band with one hit on the radio, so bands that take the time to write good music and develop a fan base will eventually earn the respect of their fans to want to see them in concert, rather then just downloading a few singles online.
Lastely, a TRUE fan will buy music, period. Anybody that claims they are a fan of some band or artist and downloads the music for free ISN’T.
Re: Do the Opposite!
I would settle for CDs or DVDs that play in any player. Why would I want to buy CDs or DVDs that may not play in certain devices? How is that adding value?
Re: Do the Opposite!
“Lastely, a TRUE fan will buy music, period. Anybody that claims they are a fan of some band or artist and downloads the music for free ISN’T.”
that is a very opinionated definition of fan. I’m sure you find that not too many people agree with that definition. it is however, the only definiton that the RIAA cares about.
Truly enlighted “Fans” will realize that buying the cd does not profit the artist that made the content, and quite simply, wont bother. But they will go to any show that comes tothe area. nd they will buy T-Shirts from that show. They might even buy a cd att the show.
Allt his from a “Fan” who “stole” the music.
meanwhile, your loyal “fan” who purchased every studio track but never goes to a show cause he’s a snob has not really given a damn thing to the artist that he is a “Fan” of. Only to his labe.
So define your terms carefully, and live by those definitions. Else you look mis-educated and all yoru intentions get wraught to hell.
Re: Re: Do the Opposite!
Hear! Hear!
I’ve probably purchased every Motley Crue Album on Cassette in the past. Then Purchased most of them on CD. However when I broke up with my EX a few years ago, I lost most of my CD collection.
Now, in the past year, I’ve seen Motley Crue twice in concert, and travelled 300miles for one of the concerts. BUT.., I can tell you I’ve pulled all of their albums off Bit Torrent and burned them to a CD of my own mixing for the one road trip to see them in concert!!!
Am I a Fan? I think so!!! After all I’ve seen the Crue 7 times over 3 decades!!! And I’ve even stood in line overnight for front row tickets, back in the day when that’s what was allowed, before ticketmaster took over.
Just because I don’t want to dish out a bunch of money for albums, that I purchased most of them twice in my lifetime already, doesn’t mean I’m not a fan!
Re: Do the Opposite!
true fan…plz… i have never baught a cd in my life…since i discoverd downloading that is…about 7 years ago.
and true fan…well have my favourites and have all their albums…..would i ever by their music
HELL NO
those people make so much money ….they should PAY ME and all their fans for listening to them. while we normal folks sit here at home listening tot heir music etc… they live like kings and queens in massive villas and own multi million dollar everything…..
as far as im concerned they can go to hell with their “pay for cds or we will sue u”
they make millions…so leave the normal peeps alone…
all music should be free….its a way of expressing yourself…wasnt that the original idea….make money off concenrts and t-shirts etc…. music…= FREE
Re: Re: Do the Opposite!
wow, are you kidding me? there are plenty of bands out there that are struggling to make it. there are surely many who have money, but such generic statements can’t be made about all bands making millions.
i think the most interesting thing is that bands are taking off that have produced music and made it available online first. there’s one such that had no label but consistently sold out 500+ venues. from there, they were able to get a record deal
Re: Re: Do the Opposite!
You may not think so, but if people see bad spelling and grammar (especially to whom it matters if they read the comment) they may possibly disregard your comment altogether no matter how good it is.
Re: Re: Re: Bad Deal
I think that is a very bad deal. If I buy a Bob Dylan CD I get to buy tickets early for his next concert. 100% of getting screwed on this deal. What are the odds that the guy will live until his next tour? And even if he does live, no one can understand a word he is singing at the concert.
By the way. Here we are with the Tech Dirt Free, Free, Free montra again. “The only way business will ever make money is if they offer their goods and services for free” -Quote- Tech Dirt Staff.
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Re: Do the Opposite!
“Why not make the music cheap or as close to free as feasible, and then make your money selling concert tickets. ”
And have the bouncers flip you upside down, shake you, and collect all valuables that fall out, until they recoup whats “owed” to them
Wow, these posts are real relevent!
Another Approach
Another approach that I’ve seen some bands using, is including a dvd in with the cd as a bonus. It’s anything like going to a live concert by any means, but it is a nice incentive for actually going out and buying the cd.
Control
why is it that the big labels still have so much trouble seeing that they don’t need to sue everyone
It’s about control not money. The big labels are still making plenty of money. Name a record company or media corporation that not only has lost money (like being in the red) but gone bankrupt in the past 5 years? As was mentioned in another Techdirt story, music companies are afraid of losing control, losing leverage. With no control they lose the ability to dictate terms.
RE: Re Do the Opposite!
I am sorry but I have to agree. I am a huge music fan, hell I even still have LP’s and even a few KISS 8-tracks running around, but since downloading came easy, I have not paid either.
I love somone saying have you heard the new “whatever” and I say no, but I will in just a second…..downloaded and listen. Now I might tell some of my friends about it and they may purchase it so there, I have done my part…..but pay for music or I am not a fan????? GET A LIFE Music = FREE god I love that.
Anything I write would be gold compared to the idiot above me.
While I only glossed over some of the article, I recall one time receiving a free LP when I purchased Tools – Ænima.
It had sober, prison sex, stinkfist and one other song. Not to mention a really cool translucent design. I find myself purchasing all the Tool albums now hoping I get another free gift. I doubt I ever will, but it sure did work on me. Of course, Tool is a great band and I’d buy thier stuff anyways.
In regards to comment 12, not all bands make a lot of money. Many of the bands I listen to never even make it out of the city they started in, no radio air-time and no 50,000 adoring fans in a stadium, just a handful of drugged-out-slackers.
While I’m not a grammar nazi, if you want to get a point across at least *try* not to sound like someone who’s only 5.
Re: Re:
and to comment number 15
those slackers dont get anywhere anyways, so buying a cd which doesnt exist wont help no matter what
if a cd is in a store….the guy has money
Free music example
Click for a complete album for free download as an example of how it should be done (oh yeah, and proof that just because it’s free doesn’t mean it sucks)
Let me get this straight
I don’t understand this hate for people who make money. You to can make money if you have ambition, intelligence or skills. All people are created equal in accordance to inalienable rights, but that does not mean they are all equal. Some people are smart and some are not. Some have talent and other don’t. Instead of hating someone who makes money, find something you can do well and get paid for it. This is a capitalist society.
You don’t want to pay for a CD because rich labels get the money, not the artist. You say the artist gets the money from the concert. That is kind of right, but did you think of this. Who pays to have the songs recorded and mixed? Take the label out and the songs would either never be recorded or the artist would have to pay for it. Then you would be directly ripping off the artist. Also, the label employees thousands of people and creates jobs for many, many more. The money for the CD does not just go to Marvel Comic Villain type sitting in a penthouse in the sky; it goes to stock holders, employees. REAL people.
You are not entitled to free things just because you can breathe. No one “deserves” anything……you earn it.
Re: Let me get this straight
“Take the label out and the songs would either never be recorded or the artist would have to pay for it.”
In MOST cases the artist(s) STILL has to pay for “it.” Record labels typically “advance” an artist money to produce an album against future earnings. These artists often don’t make a dime from CD sales, concerts, posters or T-Shirts, etc. until the balance of that “advance” is paid off. Labels take on very little risk. However, artists may need to tour for years, if an album does poorly, in order to pay off a labels “advance.”
if a cd is in a store....the guy has money
post 17 – Not true – the record label may have money and may have paid some money to the artist. But I personally know one artist who was signed with three major labels and have had 8 studio Cd’s in every store and they are not wealthy. Sure they get to make a living doing what they love, but not anywhere close to a millionaire.
i have to say, although there are a large number of people who do download, and i count myself as one of them, there are many many many many more who obtain their music legally. i really dont think were making a big enough dent in the labels pockets for them to not be able to afford it.
being a millionare is what getting into music is about. making music is doing what you love in one of the most expressive way ever. doesnt matter if they are rich, as long as they are happy.
i have to say, although there are a large number of people who do download, and i count myself as one of them, there are many many many many more who obtain their music legally. i really dont think were making a big enough dent in the labels pockets for them to not be able to afford it.
being a millionare is what getting into music is about. making music is doing what you love in one of the most expressive way ever. doesnt matter if they are rich, as long as they are happy.
i have to say, although there are a large number of people who do download, and i count myself as one of them, there are many many many many more who obtain their music legally. i really dont think were making a big enough dent in the labels pockets for them to not be able to afford it.
being a millionare is what getting into music is about. making music is doing what you love in one of the most expressive way ever. doesnt matter if they are rich, as long as they are happy.
Re: Digital Changed Everything
OK here’s a slightly different perspective…
Back in the day, if you wanted “free” music you either listened to the radio, or, if you wanted to play it anytime you liked, you would record the radio programs onto cassette, or you’d borrow your friend’s albums and tape them. Sure, I’m probably older than most folks commenting here, but when I indulged in either of the above activities as a kid I was absolutely aware that I was doing something wrong – effectively I was “stealing”. In any case, back then the experience of listening to a cassette recording just wasn’t satisfying enough for someone who was really into music, so if music was a passion, you pretty much had to find a way to pay for it.
But Digital changed everything…MP3s sound pretty damned good, and the internet has given rise to an incredible arsenal of technologies that let those digital bits fly around like crazy…but it IS still stealing to acquire an illicit MP3 of copyrighted music, regardless of the method in which you do so. It’s also still illegal to borrow a friend’s CD and copy it for yourself. End of debate. Taken to its logical conclusion, if musicians were never compensated for recorded works, then I suspect there’d be precious few recorded works to choose from.
The recording industry is trying real hard to figure this all out so that they (& a broad range of artists) can stay viable. For $10 a month you can subscribe to one of several digital services that will let you stream as much good quality music as you can handle. I know the labels aren’t run by saints, but most businesses aren’t these days. Besides, the legal alternatives to stealing are getting better, so my hope is people think just a bit deeper about this huge issue and give the labels a chance to have legitimate businesses in the future that aren’t solely based on a handful of manufactured “pop stars”.
Hibbs
someone with half a brain at last
thanks 22 – I was assuming the mean readership age on this was about 14 until I saw what you wrote.
People – get an education, realise these evil companies provide emplyment, create media that entertains you, and takes risks to do so. All in all, seems fair for them to make a buck or two.
If the “evil” companies all die, then guess what? less media for you to enjoy, less people employed, social goes up to compensate and voila you are paying more taxes.
Understand the issue and your disasgreement is about the STRATEGY by which they are trying to succeed in a changing media market.
Having said this, I agree with the common issue – chasing fans for downloading some songs is hideous, and I think they should make their money with better franchising and branding of their stars – i.e. lets the fans buy everything they want to do with the bands.
So guess what, they won’t stop until it becomes less profitable to do so, probably with a class suit against them or just ever spiralling legal costs.
In the meantime; research the companies & buy some shares – see how you as a “real” person feel as they plummet.
Just wait until they discover the free Lo-Fi download with digital quality for a price concept…
blah blah blah … record companies are stupid
and this website rehashing the same old thing time and time again.
Does the term ‘one trick pony’ mean anything to you guys?
The RIAA....
The RIAA would never allow this to happen. Then all the middlemen would complain as they wouldn’t be able to make the millions they do now. As it is now they make more selling by the track than if you went out and paid for the CD at your local store. The RIAA would have a coronary and have to send their lawyers home crying broke if the labels dumped the RIAA and went at selling the CD’s on their own at discounted rates. Me, I’m still getting ALL my music free and pay to go to concerts.
Music, Stealing, RIAA.
I used to be a recording artist and have had a contract with Polygram in Eastern Europe. I’ve played many shows in Europe including The Pepsi island fest, in budapest. My band still plays on, however, I have left the band.
Trying to make a living with music alone is a tough endeavour. I had to spend countless dollars of my own, not to mention being cheated by our promoters. Even with a major contract, your albums have to sell. If they don’t sell, you will make very little money. There was money for recording, a video, promotion, etc… but money in my pocket? Its very difficult to succeed.
I would like to mention that I still recieve royalties for the air-time that my songs and video get played. This isn’t a lot of money, but for some it could be. Record sales generate airtime, and airtime makes artists money.
All this being said, if you look at the financial statements of Polygram, Sony, etc. They are consistently making money from record sales. They are greedy like any good business person, and want to make additional GOOD investments. The dent that the so called ‘theft’ of music makes is so small when it is compared to the bottom line, I actually laugh when I see this debate. They have plenty of money to pay lawyers, and generate more press and attention to them.
As a former rocker and someone who used to tape Michael Jackson off the radio (never with a thought that I was stealing), as well as an ASCAP member, if you really want to help a struggling new band. Send them a nice letter and maybe a fiver.