New Casino Business Model: Any Time Someone Wins, Blame The Software
from the stacking-the-odds dept
Everyone knows that casinos stack the odds against players. That’s the business model. However, every once in a while they need to pay out large amounts, because it’s the possibility of such payouts that keep people coming back, despite their long odds. It appears one casino has come up with an ingenious method to stacking the odds even further: when someone wins a big jackpot on a computerized Keno machine, just claim the winning results were a software glitch and refuse to pay (found via digg). The men who did not get their prize are hiring lawyers to discuss the matter. The casino claims that they’re not liable for any “malfunction.” Of course, the article isn’t entirely clear on exactly what the malfunction was — but it seems like they should pay up, and if they have a problem with the machine, they should take it up with the machine’s manufacturer.
Comments on “New Casino Business Model: Any Time Someone Wins, Blame The Software”
Yin/Yang
I’ll bet the winners end up losers, 2-to-3 odds.
Well
I have always found it slightly dubious to put my money into a “computer” slot machine. I mean, honestly, do we really think the results are random, or do the casinos hit a button every now and then to pay out on demand.
But theses days, even the so called mechanical slot machines are all computer controlled.
I think that if this case has any huge impact on customer relations, then casinos should be forced to ban computerized slot machines by law, and instead rely soley on mechanical processes for true random results.
Until that happens, I will play poker or blackjack so I know that there is some fate in how I win or lose.
They would be wise to pay up. If they claim software glitch that worked against them, they would be opening up themselves to a class-action lawsuit by anyone who had used their system that could then claim they would have won had it not been for a software glitch.
Re: Lawsuit
If I recall correctly, the courts won’t enforce gambling debts. There may be other viable legal avenues (deceptive advertisting, etc), though. Any lawyers care to comment?
(Seems they’ve already put themselves in the court of public opinion where they’re apt to lose bigtime.)
Re: Re: Lawsuit
Courts WILL enforce gambling contracts (constituted by the act of gambling in the casino) if the contract is legal – in other words, they won’t enforce illegal betting, or anything else illegal – makes sense, huh?
As far as this case goes, I say ban all casinos! Only let people play the Lotto. That’s voluntary taxation in my book, which is a VERY GOOD THING.
Re: Lawsuit
If I recall correctly, the courts won’t enforce gambling debts. There may be other viable legal avenues (deceptive advertisting, etc), though. Any lawyers care to comment?
(Seems they’ve already put themselves in the court of public opinion where they’re apt to lose bigtime.)
This is old news
I saw this on the news 2 months ago. The culprit at that time was Winstar Casinos. You can bet I’ll never go there.
Payout exceeded maximum
I heard about this on CBC last night. The story was that the guy was playing a nickel keno machine which had a payout limit of around $3000 if all 5 keno numbers matched. When the guy “won” it showed the payout jackpot to be $209,000 – that’s why they’re blaming a software glitch.
Regardless, it would have served them much better to just pay the guy his $200,000 and be done with it. Now they are getting a lot of negative press which could result in fewer people going there to gamble if they feel they won’t be paid their winnings.
Re: Payout exceeded maximum
209 000 is an error code that means “please service”
Re: Re: Payout exceeded maximum
That is funny. Thanks for making me laugh
Been in Service How long?
Just goes to show you the odds–they article states this machine has been in service for 3 YEARS—does it take that long for it to finally hit so you can see the glitch?!
that's why
I have started playing poker and blackjack. Maybe not better odds in a “pure” world, but it has an element of true randomness that no computer COULD duplicate, and of course, anything computerized can easily be fixed in any way you want, from slot machines to voting machines…if it is allowed to be a closed proprietary system. I could see this parlaying into another voting machine debate (as a worst case), i.e. a public outcry forms for legislation that guarantees these machines aren’t fixed, flown under the banner of an update to current fair-gaming regulations.
Daily News
This seems to be more commom everyday…not too long ago (maybe early this year, late last year) The NY Daily News had a scratch off sweepstakes insert which were abou 50% (or better) positive. Meaning about 50% of the entrants had the Jackpot numbers. Of course the news rejected them stating a printer/technical error caused the game to be deemed invalid. I thinbk this one is still n the courts….
PS. this ansd the fact that I like to keep money, are two reasons why I don’t gamble anymore, anf that means cards, slots, lottery, whatever. It seems evryone can count a 5deck stack so it gotten too crazy…
pps. third reason was I damn near became addicted during HS and college and just had to say NO to gambling…
the preceeding msg is in no way a endorsent by the author or the advertisers. it merely a the opinion of someone whom none you know or care about…..
Vegas slot machines are actually MUCH safer, more secure, and harder to tamper with than any electronic voting machine ever used in an U.S. presidential election. If they wont to call it a ‘malfunction,’ then what is to stop me from saying Bush won because of a malfunction?
Because bush really did win because of a malfunction….
Re: So if the other guy had won...
…it wouldn’t have been?
This isn't news in Vegas
This happens on occasion in Vegas. It usually involves
an overpay to the customer and it is always handled quickly with the customer getting what he should have won. Why are there no lawsuits? Easy, If you
raise hell at one property you’d be lucky to get a room in a Fremont street flop and you wouldn’t even be able to use a one-arm bandit at the 7-11 down the street because your name is toast and they do know you. The entire state of Nevada would be an uncomfortable place for you to be.
Nothing...
“then what is to stop me from saying Bush won because of a malfunction?”
Nothing at all…this time…but when the vote gets tampered with again, and again…say on the act to repeal the 2 term limit. then the act to lengthen presidental term. and then to elect GWB’s son…and the act to allow him to spy on all americans…then maybe there will be a big brother gestapo to stop you from saying it….
Re: Nothing...
Man, you need to chill the hell out with the politics. This article had nothing to do with Bush, the election, or the gestapo.
:/ Maybe you should make a blog about your rants.
hahahaha...
I’m not talking *about* politics, I’m comparing…
I’m giving an example of where trusting computers unquestioningly, leads to realistic versions of senarios that people usually say are too extreme, and like to pass off as “paranoia.”
And often, the best way to prove a point, is to satire it…blow it way out of proportion, so that people can see where their logic leads. Satire happens to be my favorite form of COMEDY.
/: Maybe YOU should turn on your humor detector.
Re: hahahaha...
not to mention – bush won by a landslide. just look at the total votes.
computer random # generators
umm… you guys saying that you don’t trust ANY computer slot machine, you DO realize that virtually every slot machine made since at least the early 80’s have used transistor/microchip random number generators – right? as in not just the newer ones with crt monitors and whatnot, right?
Re: computer random # generators
I think the question is, who trusts that? Who makes that?
So what if the random number generator is made out of transistors and not software? Irrelevant…either way it can be rigged, so how do we know it isn’t?
This is where peer-review would come in handy…or even open source maybe. I mean, if I can’t review the logic (code or transistors) then I’d at LEAST like to know someone unbiased HAS.
In Nevada, I think the Gaming commission does verify this stuff…but I don’t live there and have never been there so I don’t know.
The article mentions this is not the first time something like this has happened:
Also, according to a few Discovery type TV shows I’ve seen the slots and wheels are the worst odds. The cards and other games of skill have much better odds. They do cost more though… 🙂
For similar info checkThe Wizard of Odds
Note that the house advantage in games of chance such as Keno (25%-29%), Roulette, Slots.
Whereas games of skill give the house less of an edge. Of course this is assuming that the house is playing by the state’s Gambling laws!
Past issue and House Advantage
The article mentions this is not the first time something like this has happened:
Also, according to a few Discovery type TV shows I’ve seen the slots and wheels are the worst odds. The cards and other games of skill have much better odds. They do cost more though… 🙂
For similar info checkThe Wizard of Odds
Note that the house advantage in games of chance such as Keno (25%-29%), Roulette, Slots.
Whereas games of skill give the house less of an edge. Of course this is assuming that the house is playing by the state’s Gambling laws!
Doesn't Pay Off
Let’s be real. Most Las Vegas casinos advertise at least a 93% payback. Just what does this mean? IT MEANS… If you play a slot machine and run $100 through it, you will only get $93 back through the drop, IF YOU’RE LUCKY!
I have never understood the gambling craze, it’s just like all the other get rich quick schemes, the player always loses. Las Vegas wasn’t built from people winning money – it’s the loser’s money that build multi-billion dollar resorts.
Now, here in California, the Indian tribes that have casinos, have tried blaming the software for big payouts but have failed to prove their case. Also the tribes are throwing their own members, fellow tribesmen, out of the tribes and off the reservations, in order to lessen the number of members and thus fewer people that they have to share the profits with.
Gambling means only one thing – GREED, both on the casino’s part and the player. The casino wants your money and the player wants to get rich quick without having to earn it. Either way it is spelled G-R-E-E-D
the house always wins. if you aren’t intelligent enough to understand that simple fact, you don’t deserve the money that the casino “wins” from you anyway.
As a semi-pro (arbitrary label) poker player, I realize that ALL gambling is a waste of time and that my life is always better spent elsewhere than in the casino. A man who tells me he is a blackjack player is automatically downgraded from “respectable” to “degenerate” in at least one way.
At 22 years old, I usually am out have a FEW drinks or talking to my gf on the phone, but every now and then I feel the need to go in there and play. It relaxes me for a while and helps me space out. The smart way to gamble is to devote 5% of your income or less to it, and keep track of it for a while for fun. Buy in to large poker tournaments and, when the inevitable day come where you make a final table, go out and have fun with the winnings, knowing that you aren’t actually ‘up’ all that much.
It amazes me how many people play slots. Keno, which has the largest house edge of any casino game at apprx. (30-35%), is still popular enough to exist despite its simplicity. Blackjack is a more understandable addiction as the game is exciting, fast-paced, and phenomenal runs are possible. I turned 60$ into 1300 in PHX. Then I promptly put 1300 on 4 hands @ ~400 each and lost them ALL.
Gambling is a paradox, a world of bullshit, but man I love it sometimes. I only play for the BIG runs in poker and I play a little blackjack for fun.
blame the software
That’s a funny title. But machines break. The word ‘Gambling’ is such a misnomer. It is a fact that you will lose over time. It should be viewed as entertainment, not a retirement plan.
These are terrible and bad methods, such companies quickly get a lot of negative reviews and lose their customers. I often used http://62judigames.com/ and never received a refusal to pay. In fact, I think that it is even illegal, any errors with their software all exactly fall on their shoulders