TiVo Thinking About Ditching The Upfront Hurdle
from the where'd-they-get-that-idea? dept
Davis Freeberg writes “In a candid interview with Bloomberg news, TiVo CEO Tom Rogers discussed what he’s been able to accomplish thus far at TiVo and the direction that he’d like to take the company in the future. During the interview he offered a lot of great information, but the most interesting piece is that TiVo is considering offering a subscription only model for their subscribers. Once someone uses a TiVo it will be difficult to go back to the generic PVR. By giving new consumers the opportunity to try TiVo without making a $300 investment, the company can expand their appeal beyond just the early adopter crowd. Rogers also talks extensively about his background with NBC, his time at law school and the work that he did as a Congressional aide.” That’s funny… it’s been almost three years since we suggested TiVo should do exactly that and people thought we were crazy.
Comments on “TiVo Thinking About Ditching The Upfront Hurdle”
No Subject Given
$100 TV tuner Card + freeware = PVR + automated commercial skipping + third-party developers add-ons + music library management.
The only box sitting next to my TV is a fanless computer.
Re: No Subject Given
But does it do HD?? Will someone please make a decent HD TIVO?? I have money and am willing to spend….
Re: Re: No Subject Given
I have an awesome HD PVR. It’s the Elgato EyeTV 500. It gets HD reception over the air or unencrypted clear QAM cable. I watch the networks on it. You can’t get HBO HD, etc with it. Though I don’t see how you’d get that on your TIVO either, without a cablecard auth.
Re: Re: No Subject Given
DirecTV already has a decent HD TiVo unit…
http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/imagine/HDTV.jsp
I have been using this on my plasma for almost a year now.
Re: Re: Re: No Subject Given
“$100 TV tuner Card + freeware = PVR + automated commercial skipping + third-party developers add-ons + music library management.”
Yeah, but can it provide suggestions and season passes to shows that you actually want to watch? And how much time/money have you invested in this unit, just so it could do what you’ve mentioned? Was it more than than $69.99 that TiVo charges for it’s unit which is small/sleek, fast and rock solid.
Re: Re: Re:2 No Subject Given
intelligent recording by actor, genre, title, etc + record all new episodes of show X + no monthly fees
-1 old computer
-1 big, fast hard drive
-TV tuner card
-PVR software
-2 hours for initial set-up
-maybe a 1/2 hour a month maintenance
The result is a PVR that was built FOR consumers without concern for the television or movie lobby. I consider Tivo to be crippleware.
And it is simple enough for my girlfriend to use.
Re: Re: Re:3 No Subject Given
“-TV tuner card”
And who supplies the video feed for this card? you Cable company or your satellite company?
And what fees per month are you paying to them… I believe that TiVo is ONLY $12.95 a month ontop of your current video provider (only $4.99 if your video provider is DirecTV) – But my point is that a TiVo box will only use up a little amount of electricity compared to the massive amounts that your PC probably eats up. Plus all the head-aches of it crashing and you having to boot it up and trouble-shoot it each time it becomes unsolid. And how much time do you put into making sure your HD has enough room to record the next program – while TiVo handles that automatically.
Re: Re: Re:3 No Subject Given
One download of bittorrent + dvd burner + divx dvd player + broadband = all I will ever need
and agreed tivo = crippleware
Re: Re: Re:2 No Subject Given
A home-brew PVR (or HTPC) can do more than Tivo, and there are no subscription fees. It can play/rip/burn/convert DVDs, play downloaded videos, play MP3s and you can even set up game emulators on it. The upfront hardware costs and knowledge required are higher, but some people find the project worthwhile for all it can do.
The big question on my mind is why more people aren’t building and selling these systems for a profit on Ebay. I believe that would be legal if you use Linux as the OS. I would do it myself but I don’t have the time. I’d be the buyer!
Re: No Subject Given
You forgot the following:
+ tech savvy person to make it all work (0.01% of US population)
Re: No Subject Given
$100 TV tuner Card + freeware = PVR + automated commercial skipping + third-party developers add-ons + music library management.
You forgot the endless hours of tinkering with the software, cruising the forums for problem/issue resolution, that fanless computer I assume must be free or stolen, and the remote to control it all, is that free too?
The only thing sitting next to him on his couch is a n empty bag of Cheetos(TM)
Re: Re: No Subject Given
Ahahahaha! Thanks for the good laugh, Anonymous Replying Coward!
Re: No Subject Given
“$100 TV tuner Card + freeware = PVR + automated commercial skipping + third-party developers add-ons + music library management.”
ok in todays society if you can’t install a pci card and some software you need to be shot becuase you are wasting the little resources we have. this totally a doable project that can be done in one weekend for a novice. with skills you can do it in a day i have built around 20 of these things literally (i sell tham as a side business) so i know what i’m talking about. they are not hard to troubleshoot at all, no harder than a regular pc. you can also buy software and make it even easier. so don’t diss somones post before you know the facts. dumbasses and i don’t care that i am being a troll. yes i know there are multiple grammar and spelling errors no need to point them out. for a tech forum we sure do get ALOT of non tech people.
Re: Re: No Subject Given
ok in todays society if you can’t install a pci card and some software you need to be shot becuase you are wasting the little resources we have. this totally a doable project that can be done in one weekend for a novice. with skills you can do it in a day i have built around 20 of these things literally (i sell tham as a side business) so i know what i’m talking about. they are not hard to troubleshoot at all, no harder than a regular pc. you can also buy software and make it even easier. so don’t diss somones post before you know the facts. dumbasses and i don’t care that i am being a troll. yes i know there are multiple grammar and spelling errors no need to point them out. for a tech forum we sure do get ALOT of non tech people. this is not a dupe i simply hit submit before i had my name on it cause i want credit for calling those that this applies to dumbasses
Re: Re: Re: No Subject Given
“credit”? are we back in 2nd grade again?
Here sir. Here is one silver star just for you.
Re: Re: Re: No Subject Given (response to wolff000)
I work as a computer engineer for a living (translation, spend a lot of time peering into the guts of circuitry and computer code). Although I could develop homebrew alternatives for most of my creature comforts (TiVos, VCR, even a microwave or whatever), sometimes it comes down to I just don’t want to invest the time and energy.
I always say to my girlfriend that although doing-it-yourself always seems cheaper, sometimes it isn’t. I tell her to take her salary at work and apply it to the amount of time it takes her to do a home project. THAT is the true cost (along with materials) of any project.
As an aside, wolff000 most of the people in the world aren’t technophiles like the people who frequent these boards. Actually, I would assert that most people frequent this board not because of its technology, but the analysis of how technology related issues effect our daily lives. That has importance for everyone, not just the technophiles. So yes, you will see ALOT of non-technical people here, and I think that’s great and should be encouraged.
So while I think it’s great that you like to “build-your-own-TIVO”, don’t look down on us lazy technophiles who just like to come home fter a long day of geek work and play with the pretty pre-packaged box.
Re: ReplayTV still the best
How about my 300GB ReplayTV PVR (20 minute upgrade from original 60GB) on my wireless 801.2G LAN, allowing me to dump ANY recorded show from DirecTV to my PC, then burn to DVD…
My PC can have a fan, ’cause it’s not in the living room!
I don’t think TIVO can do that..can it?
Pity that SonicBlue will probably not make a HD version though…
Re: Re: ReplayTV still the best
As a matter of fact, yes, it can.
For that matter, one of my tivo’s has a dvd burner built in, so I don’t even need to upload the video to a pc first.
Tivo can even do the reverse, downloading video from the pc to the tivo. And play music, show family photos, play games, and more.
Other than poopli type functionality, tivo passed replay LONG ago. And since replay quit offering that feature in new boxes long ago, I don’t even think that could be considered an advantage at this point.
Re: Re: Re: ReplayTV still the best
Dont forget the fun of TiVo tracking your viewing habits and possibly flagging content for deletion after a certain period of time.. No thanks..
Re: Re: Re:2 ReplayTV still the best
TiVo tracks your viewing habits as an aggregate, warns you when you first turn on the box that it’s doing it and give you the option to NOT do it right then and there.
As for “possibly flagging content for deleteion after a time… You’ve been reading too much hype and not enough news… this doesn’t exist.
Re: Re: Re:2 ReplayTV still the best
Oh sure! My three DirecTV Tivos are tracked and monitored 24/7 -by Neilsen ratings. I signed up and agreed to allow them to use my DirecTivos for ratings purposes. I enjoy this because nobody in my house watches typical channels so the broadcast networks and highly rated cable networks get nothing from us. They can thank us for their drop in ratings.
Spying on me? I don’t care if they see what I watch. Let them see that my DirecTivo stays on the Science channel too much, or that I Tivo anything with Amy Devers.
The DirecTivo is also the BEST receiver DirecTV has ever sold. Easy to use guide, sort of a PIP, fast, clearest picture, etc. The fact that it also does all the Tivo functions make it an easy choice. I’m thinking about getting a fourth one while I can because the new DirecTV-brand PVRs are apparently total garbage.
Nobody will care but I also have a Hauppauge TV tuner card in my main computer. It has yet to impress me. The picture is only OK, the sound sucks, the guide stuff is not integrated properly and there are assorted software issues.
I bought this card to do capture of some old VHS tapes that will probably survive one last pass through a VCR, so the capture has to be be right the first time. Despite lots and lots of testing, tweaking, driver updates and other fun, this card is still nowhere near ready for prime time. It’s hard to see how anyone would want to rely upon something like this for their PVR.
What I am totally impressed with is IPTV, which I can feed out to the TV. This is clearly the future of TV and DirecTV, Tivo, the broadcast networks and the cable companies should be properly scared to death. Nobody will need DirecTV or Comcast or NBC when the TV comes over the net, and nobody will need Tivo when everything is always on demand. Networks will cease to exist because what people want to watch are the shows they want, when they want, any time they want, without regard to who makes it or what network it happens to be on.
Re: Re: Re:3 ReplayTV still the best
and all this IPTV is going to happen when? like six months from now? [/sarcasm]
Re: Re: Re: ReplayTV still the best
Other angles…
Use (2) PVR tuner cards and record and/or watch at the same time. Burn to CD/DVD or:
1. Use card with video-out to playback on TV.
2. Use something like Hauppauge’s MediaMVP to connect your ethernet to a TV for playback.
3. Watch recordings on the PC as I do most the time.
Re: No Subject Given
I have a Tivo as well as a TV tuner/recorder card for my computer. The thing with Tivo is that when they move a program from 8:00PM on Tuesday to Saturday at noon because of a basketball game, the Tivo automatically changes itself and gets the program at noon with no interference from me; that is, unless it has already recorded that episode in which case it does not record it again (unless I set it up to do just that).
TV cards and freeware cannot touch the automated features Tivo has to offer.
Re: Re: No Subject Given
Got a Tivo for xmas. Sent it back.
$10 a month for a glorified TV guide = brain dead!
I’d take the Tivo, but %$#^ the subscription.
I’m going OSS PVR with NO SUBSCRIPTION FEES! All you technophobes can bite me and keep paying those brain dead sub fees!
Re: Re: No Subject Given
I have a myhd 120 High definition tv tuner card in my pc. Along with a 20 inch Computer monitor(1280×1024 resolution which is HD). I can pause, rewind and fastfoward live tv just like a tivo.
It only took about 30 mins to set up and maybe 1.5+ hours to set up the antenna on top of my roof and run the cable to my computer.
Its great I can record programs when away. I can set it to record a show weekly too so I dont always have to set it to record each week.
I can use it along with titantv.com to record too.
If you get the MYHD 130 card you can use QAM which lets you run cable on it.
The card new on the website is 200.00 but go to ebay and its cheaper.
Re: Re: Re: No Subject Given
Why is everybody so down on the subscription fees. Here’s the facts… 40HR TiVo: $50, 300GB hard drive: $120, Lifetime subscription: $299.
$470 + 30 minutes to install the expansion drive and you’re done.
How does that pricing stand up against your home brew PVRs?
Re: No Subject Given
“$100 TV tuner Card + freeware – DRM Blocking so you can’t record = worthless junk”
No Subject Given
The problems :
* The machine occasionally locks up and need to be rebooted. How often? Sometimes several times a week. Others, maybe less than once every few months.
* The machine occasionally reboots itself without warning. I’m still not sure if this is deliberate. It’s never done it while recording or playing back a show, but it has done it while I was watching live TV, which is not necessarily detectable unless I’m time shifting. Things work great after the reboot, but it’s a bit irritating if I’m time shifting live TV, which honestly is rare.
* Our first machine’s hard drive died. We had decent service replacing the machine, however we did have to pay S&H. TiVo could certainly improve here, but the service WAS very acceptable.
The nits (design issues, IMO) :
* My favorite feature is turned off and hidden. This is setting the skip to 30 seconds. When watching live TV, hit select, play, select 30, select. This has to be reset every time you restart. I imagine this is not the default to prevent lawsuits from unhappy networks because I don’t even watch their commercials sped up any more.
* I wish changing the channel didn’t flush the 30 minute live TV buffer.
* I wish the buffer was 60 minutes.
The raves :
* My favorite feature. 30 second commerical skip (see above).
* I virtually never watch live TV any more. Channel surfing is DEAD in my household. My observation is that many people in other reviews complained about how slow the channel changing is. I guess this is true, even with the serial cable, but the whole point of the TiVo is to NOT have to change channels or watch live TV any longer.
Seriously, if you’re intent on channel surfing, you won’t get the point of a TiVo and it probably isn’t for you. My father in law doesn’t get our TiVo and it doesn’t make sense for him or anyone else with a 30 second – 5 minute attention span. A DVR doesn’t make sense for you at all. That doesn’t denigrate your TV-watching style, it just means don’t purchase a DVR.
If you’re the sort who likes to change channels during the commcerical (I used to do that), TiVo doesn’t make sense unless you change your habits. I have. I don’t watch commercials either.
* I have managed to catch up on all my old TV series using season pass. This has been easy even when I’m not sure when the shows are because TiVo finds them on various channels and surfs to record them for me.
* Wishlists have turned up old hidden 2am gems that I like to watch occasionally. This is fun.. to catch on old movie or find a show with a favorite actor or topic.
* I thought at first that I had to watch everything my TiVo recorded. No way, that isn’t the point. The point is to have a diverse set of wishlist items, season passes, and suggestions from selected from thumbs up and down information you input over time to always be able to watch if and when you decide to watch TV. That is empowering as I now choose what and when to watch.
* We’re starting a family soon, and TiVo supports parental protection based on show ratings. We have it turned off right now, but when our children get old enough to hold a remote, that will be turned back on and customized to our preferences. That and we can skip commercials are powerful tools in our parental toolbox.
* You can network your TiVo and hook it up to your home network for updated TV listings via network instead of phone line and to play your family digital photo album on the TV as well as your collection of MP3’s. If you have a stereo hooked up for movies, this is very nice.
* The user interface is pretty easy to use. Even install, while involving many steps is about as easy as one can make it given how many decisions must be made at the user’s end (how did you hook it up? what kind of cable, satellite, etc? what channels do you get? and so on).
* You can hack your TiVo. There actually are some good reasons to do this.
1) It’s cheap to add more hard disk space if you need it. I should do this soon.
2) Part of the process involves backing up the hard drive. If the hard drive in your TiVo dies, this means you have a backup and may be able to repair your current box (with a lifetime subscription in my case) instead of purchasing a new one.
3) Some people I know are also able to save video onto their computer and burn their own dvds. I considered this but decided against it for now because the quality isn’t exciting, and the legality is questionable (although you can now purchase a TiVo/DVD burner combo that does the same thing).
Suggestions :
* Seriously consider hacking your TiVo once it’s out of warantee at least to add your own warantee of a backup hard drive, even if you don’t add hours to it. There are services that will do this for you if you pay them.
Alternatives :
* Replay – I haven’t spent much time looking at Replay. Their approach has caused so many lawsuits, and they’ve been in and out of brankruptcy, I decided not to bother. People rave about it though.
* Ultimate TV – Microsofts offering. My brother-in-law enjoys his, but it’s no longer available. What’s out there still works and it seems to be a nice system.
* MythTV/FreeVo – these are free software systems that you can use to build your own computer into a TiVo live DVR that incorporate even more features like computer gaming and so on. I’m very interested as a software engineer and will probably build one (and have friends who have done so), but it’s more of a hobbiest approach and you do have to constantly tinker to keep it running in excellent shape.
Final comments :
I love my TiVo. It has truly empowered me to watch what I want, when I want, and HOW I want. I don’t watch commercials unless I really want to. TiVo suggestions have showed me that there really is worthwhile TV to watch (we watch a lot of FoodTV, Discovery, TLC, DIY, etc. type shows) available… more than I have time to watch. Thumbs up and thumbs down on various shows have really fine tuned what the TiVo records as a suggestion (only using available space).
It definitely has little quicks and problems. I could do without the occasional hangs and I’m always nervous that the hard drive might crash. TiVo probably could use better customer service although I have never had a problem. However, I use a lot of honey in my interactions with customer service people (I used to work in tech support) and almost always get better results than the irate grumpy people I know, even calling the same help lines.
The value has FAR exceeded the cost, IMO. Watching what I want when I want. Saving 15-20 minutes an hour and 7-10 minutes for half hour shows by skipping commercials is time I spend on other things. Watching more shows if I’m lazy, but more usually fixing up things around the house and getting projects done. Hopefully you will find the same, but at least you can make the decision informed in as much detail as I can give in this little space here.
Advice Wanted
I own an Ultimate TV and love it. On a scale from 1 to 10, it’s a 9. Tivo is a 5, and dropping because of the company’s anti-customer stance. Scientific Atlantic is a 1 (worse software ever created!).
Unfortunately Ultimate TV only works with DirecTV. Now DirecTV kicks cable’s butt in more than I can enumerate (plus, I don’t want to start a flame war). Unfortunately, I recently moved into a condo that does not give me a view of the SW sky, so I can’t use DirectTv and my Ultimate TV. I’d gladly thow away the cable tv discount and pay for DirecTV/Ultimate TV again if I only could.
My problem is this. Right now I’m using a Scientific Atlantic DVR which runs the worst software ever created by mankind. As a professional software developer, I am downright disgusted with this DVR. I want to replace it with a different DVR, but I’m hesitent to buy a DVR card that doesn’t say which cable/satellite providers it works with and how many simultaneous recordings it can do.
I’m looking for a system (retail or build your own) that meets the following requirements.
Must Haves
———-
1. Works with DirecTV and major cable providers (Adelphia, Comcast) including working with digital cable channels.
2. Works with high definition digital channels (e.g., Discovery HD, ABC HD).
3. Can record two programs simultaneously while playing back a third.
4. Has a way to move content offline without serious degradation. I prefer to be able to copy a file to my computer, but would accept a firewire output that I can do a capture on. I don’t want to offline to a VHS tape.
5. Has a user interface at least as good as those medocre Tivos that people seem to like.
6. Doesn’t get confused when broadcasters run the same show in two or more timeslots. E.g., Stargate SG1 on Mondays and Fridays are different “shows” for the purpose of recording.
7. A two week TV guide, not just a one week guide like Scientific Atlantic does.
8. A search by title function.
9. The ability to set up a filtered list of “favorite” channels. The TV guide should show only the channels in my filter. I hate having to scroll through 900 channels, half of which I don’t even get and another 40% I wish I didn’t. No offense, BellyButtonLintTV channel, I’m sure your target audience loves you.
Like to Have
————
1. Either no montly fee or no upfront costs. I can see the point of one of these, but not both.
2. 30 second skip (yay DirectTv!)
3. Not run by the Tivo corporation (it’s the company much more than the product that I don’t like).
4. One click to record once. Two clicks to record a series (what Tivo calls Season path).
5. Search by star, genre, etc. functions.
Does anyone know a system that meets at least the “Must Have” list?