With Dean Del Mastro's analogy he is missing a very key point with music, nobody is going back to the store to steal any MP3s. There is only one visit to the store and it is for the initial legitimate purchase. They are taking the CDs they already own and have in-hand and fashioning the MP3s out of them. In his analogy that would be more like taking the socks you bought and fashioning shoes out of them and being expected to pay again because now they are a different product.
"People don't want free, because that means it's "worthless", and we only have so much time to be alive, so why waste our limited time?"
No, you have it backwards. The word "Free" is constantly used in advertising and promotion and not because people don't want free. People *want* free, but they don't want worthless and sometimes free is an indicator of worthless.
Your not the guy who goes out and buys the $6000.00 pen because it has to be a better pen than all the cheap $20 ones are you?
In the end intelligent people buy based on *value* not price. Both the cheapest and most expensive items are often terrible values. However sometimes the most expensive item is the only acceptable one. Also there are times when the free products have been the best products available beating out expensive ones, especially true in the software world.
If it has no viewership, there is no harm done. If it has viewership it promotional. The only may its a loss for the gatekeepers is to make sure its closeted and piss off fans that go to such lengths as making documentaries and those looking forward to seeing such films.
I agree with the previous statement that this is so the lawsuits can die away without Microsoft losing face. Microsoft has a history of what appear on the surface as simple mutually beneficial relationships that end up having had multiple hidden purposes and that makes me think there is more to it than that.
Barnes and Noble senior management should ask former Microsoft partners on joint ventures such as IBM, Apple and many more the question of how that worked out for them.
The thing is every answer would be nearly identical. If Microsoft is giving you a big hug its more than likely because they are positioning a knife blade to your back. They are a company with a history and a long line of repetitious pattern. If I had B&N stock I would dump it now while the price is up and before the strike.
Sony broke my three strikes rule about a dozen things like this ago. Our TV will be the last Sony produced item we buy and that includes music, movies, games and computers.
Hollywood, and all of the big old time gatekeepers of entertainment are gradually becoming irrelevant. Whether they like it or not people are more and more turning to the content online by independent producers. For example my two favorite programs are on Jupiter Broadcasting and they are my favorite because the similar shows broadcast by satellite slant the entire programs to favor many big parters and advertisers. While there still seems to be a little of that with the small online network, there clearly is much less and everything in the programs come across as more genuine.
"Just look at those very generous donations from Big Search to the EFF and Wikipedia. A few weeks later, both were demonstrating against SOPA. What a coincidence."
Bob, The very implication that the EFF would need to be paid in order to be audibly against SOPA makes it obvious to me that you have never visited the EFF website and are completely unfamiliar with Richard Stallman of the EFF, his writings, speeches, work, and personal policies. The only thing donating money to the EFF would have changed is how much they could spend on fighting SOPA. Their beliefs were their own long before and definitely not purchased.
Stallman is more passionate about freedoms, even to the point he won't use a cell phone that has proprietary technology in it.
"Perhaps it makes those who obey the law and pay for content feel like they're not being chumps for playing by the rules."
Perhaps until we start getting hit with the tax increases to subsidize the enforcement. After that are we going to feel like chumps or be pissed and start voting the politicians on the take out of office and demand criminal investigations.
"Where do you want to meet so we can go over all of each others facts? I've got tons of them along with verifiable data to back each and every one of them up. Just pick a place and time. I'll even pay your travel expenses. If you're across the pond, I'll come visit you since I'm going to be in Europe this summer anyways. :)"
I'm not sure whom you are addressing, why not just post the facts and data on the Internet and share with everyone here? Techdirt forum users seem very adept at getting to the truth through debate. The numbers for facts and data are pointless without a good, well thought out and intellectually honest methodology in both obtaining and analyzing. The previous sentence describes the problem with MPAA, RIAA and BSA provided information; the results from their reports are usually contrived rather than derived. A look at the methodology (when available) exposes that.
* Name calling.
* You can't understand because your not me.
* If it was lobbied and made legal then it must be right.
* No measures are too extreme to combat piracy.
* Tech Dirt sucks.
* Mike sucks
In all of that there is nothing to substantiate any claims or position, no real data or information, nothing to persuade a change of view. Just name calling, thinking errors and rhetoric.
The Internet is just a communication tool. It is individual people not the inanimate Internet that should be of concern. You may as well have said: "there is no reason a fair and ethical telephone network can not exist for all stake holders and citizens."
"But you also all keep avoiding my question. How about paying me once?"
How do you know I haven't? Sidenote: You and I never had any per-creation agreement on my purchasing your product.
* Produce a product people want.
* Market it well enough that the potential customers are aware of it's existence.
* Price it carefully and correctly.
If you have done all of these things you will be successful.
If you ask a successful business manager such as one for your local grocery store you will find they also feel there is a significant number of people taking the products they sell without paying for them. There is an additional difference and that is that your grocery store paid the entire cost for each unit. The really big difference I notice is they understand that those sorts of losses come with the territory and as long as the initial criteria at the top of this reply are true then they are turning a profit because the majority of people *want* to feel good and honest and will do so. However the entertainment industry is so heavily concentrating on that percentage they don't get paid for they are doing the equivalent of your grocery store demanding the government send the TSA with the nude scanners, patdown people and strip searches to target shoplifting. That is why alot and I do mean alot of customers who never pirate and wouldn't think of shoplifting either such as myself are very angry and the Entertainment Industry, Lobby and some Congress Members. Because of the attempt to violate my rights I am an millimeter away from changing my personal policies and pirating my media. You see extreme overreaction actually causes increases in piracy or theft by removing the respect of the *paying customer* for a business or industry.
So making sure you realize I addressed your issue, If I have any song or album from you I paid you for it. If you are not selling enough products to people like me then you are failing in one of the areas listed at the top. Attempts to take away my civil liberties because someone else copied your stuff will cause a backlash from people like me, your potential paying customer.
Better boulder pusher as to artist analogy, Some one who has a talent to move boulders by having the gift of strength pushes a boulder to a park at the top of the hill and then demands a toll to all those who would make use of the boulder by resting there. Gets mayor to give them exclusive rights for granting permission to sit on said boulder for a year. Before the year is up demands the government extend exclusive use time, and beef up police enforcement for the boulder. Take the last part and rinse and repeat multiple times. Eventually still feeling entitled, bitter and upset because sometimes people may be sit on the boulder without paying, boulder pusher demands limits to everybody's liberties in the form of drastic SOPA style legislation. Side note: non-artists are boulder pushers who just get paid for hours spent pushing boulders with no entitlement after the original payment is made for their services rendered.
Somethings Missing
With Dean Del Mastro's analogy he is missing a very key point with music, nobody is going back to the store to steal any MP3s. There is only one visit to the store and it is for the initial legitimate purchase. They are taking the CDs they already own and have in-hand and fashioning the MP3s out of them. In his analogy that would be more like taking the socks you bought and fashioning shoes out of them and being expected to pay again because now they are a different product.
Re: Re:
"People don't want free, because that means it's "worthless", and we only have so much time to be alive, so why waste our limited time?"
No, you have it backwards. The word "Free" is constantly used in advertising and promotion and not because people don't want free. People *want* free, but they don't want worthless and sometimes free is an indicator of worthless.
Your not the guy who goes out and buys the $6000.00 pen because it has to be a better pen than all the cheap $20 ones are you?
In the end intelligent people buy based on *value* not price. Both the cheapest and most expensive items are often terrible values. However sometimes the most expensive item is the only acceptable one. Also there are times when the free products have been the best products available beating out expensive ones, especially true in the software world.
Re:
If it has no viewership, there is no harm done. If it has viewership it promotional. The only may its a loss for the gatekeepers is to make sure its closeted and piss off fans that go to such lengths as making documentaries and those looking forward to seeing such films.
Redmond Sleeps In
I wondered when some Microsoft pro person would show up in this thread and try to deflect the criticism.
Re: Ask Nokia
Ask Nokia again in ten years from now. Where are Microsoft's long-term partners that have never regretted it?
Re: Half Price
Since the nook is an Android tablet I fail to see how putting Windows 8 on it would make it be about half the price of a comparable Android tablet.
Re:
Where did you see a Windows 8 Tablet at almost half the price of other tablets?
Someone at Barnes & Noble Should Ask
I agree with the previous statement that this is so the lawsuits can die away without Microsoft losing face. Microsoft has a history of what appear on the surface as simple mutually beneficial relationships that end up having had multiple hidden purposes and that makes me think there is more to it than that.
Barnes and Noble senior management should ask former Microsoft partners on joint ventures such as IBM, Apple and many more the question of how that worked out for them.
The thing is every answer would be nearly identical. If Microsoft is giving you a big hug its more than likely because they are positioning a knife blade to your back. They are a company with a history and a long line of repetitious pattern. If I had B&N stock I would dump it now while the price is up and before the strike.
Just calling it like I see it.
Three Strikes Rule
Sony broke my three strikes rule about a dozen things like this ago. Our TV will be the last Sony produced item we buy and that includes music, movies, games and computers.
Gradually Becoming Irrelevant
Hollywood, and all of the big old time gatekeepers of entertainment are gradually becoming irrelevant. Whether they like it or not people are more and more turning to the content online by independent producers. For example my two favorite programs are on Jupiter Broadcasting and they are my favorite because the similar shows broadcast by satellite slant the entire programs to favor many big parters and advertisers. While there still seems to be a little of that with the small online network, there clearly is much less and everything in the programs come across as more genuine.
Re: BFD- the creator haters hire demonstrators too
"Just look at those very generous donations from Big Search to the EFF and Wikipedia. A few weeks later, both were demonstrating against SOPA. What a coincidence."
Bob, The very implication that the EFF would need to be paid in order to be audibly against SOPA makes it obvious to me that you have never visited the EFF website and are completely unfamiliar with Richard Stallman of the EFF, his writings, speeches, work, and personal policies. The only thing donating money to the EFF would have changed is how much they could spend on fighting SOPA. Their beliefs were their own long before and definitely not purchased.
Stallman is more passionate about freedoms, even to the point he won't use a cell phone that has proprietary technology in it.
(untitled comment)
Deja Vu, Obama will use the same pen he used to veto the NDAA as promised.
Oh, wait change was the promise he kept: http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/hope-and-change-gas-prices-have-gone-67-percent-obama-became-pre sident_553930.html
Re: Re: Re:
"Perhaps it makes those who obey the law and pay for content feel like they're not being chumps for playing by the rules."
Perhaps until we start getting hit with the tax increases to subsidize the enforcement. After that are we going to feel like chumps or be pissed and start voting the politicians on the take out of office and demand criminal investigations.
Re:
"have your articles screened and approved by the RIAA or MPAA or not publish"
I'm sure that all of your posts are screened and approved by someone on the payroll of RIAA and/or MPAA...
...by default.
Re: Re: Re:
"Where do you want to meet so we can go over all of each others facts? I've got tons of them along with verifiable data to back each and every one of them up. Just pick a place and time. I'll even pay your travel expenses. If you're across the pond, I'll come visit you since I'm going to be in Europe this summer anyways. :)"
I'm not sure whom you are addressing, why not just post the facts and data on the Internet and share with everyone here? Techdirt forum users seem very adept at getting to the truth through debate. The numbers for facts and data are pointless without a good, well thought out and intellectually honest methodology in both obtaining and analyzing. The previous sentence describes the problem with MPAA, RIAA and BSA provided information; the results from their reports are usually contrived rather than derived. A look at the methodology (when available) exposes that.
(untitled comment)
Just more A. Coward nonsense:
* Name calling.
* You can't understand because your not me.
* If it was lobbied and made legal then it must be right.
* No measures are too extreme to combat piracy.
* Tech Dirt sucks.
* Mike sucks
In all of that there is nothing to substantiate any claims or position, no real data or information, nothing to persuade a change of view. Just name calling, thinking errors and rhetoric.
Re: Re:
The Internet is just a communication tool. It is individual people not the inanimate Internet that should be of concern. You may as well have said: "there is no reason a fair and ethical telephone network can not exist for all stake holders and citizens."
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
"But you also all keep avoiding my question. How about paying me once?"
How do you know I haven't? Sidenote: You and I never had any per-creation agreement on my purchasing your product.
* Produce a product people want.
* Market it well enough that the potential customers are aware of it's existence.
* Price it carefully and correctly.
If you have done all of these things you will be successful.
If you ask a successful business manager such as one for your local grocery store you will find they also feel there is a significant number of people taking the products they sell without paying for them. There is an additional difference and that is that your grocery store paid the entire cost for each unit. The really big difference I notice is they understand that those sorts of losses come with the territory and as long as the initial criteria at the top of this reply are true then they are turning a profit because the majority of people *want* to feel good and honest and will do so. However the entertainment industry is so heavily concentrating on that percentage they don't get paid for they are doing the equivalent of your grocery store demanding the government send the TSA with the nude scanners, patdown people and strip searches to target shoplifting. That is why alot and I do mean alot of customers who never pirate and wouldn't think of shoplifting either such as myself are very angry and the Entertainment Industry, Lobby and some Congress Members. Because of the attempt to violate my rights I am an millimeter away from changing my personal policies and pirating my media. You see extreme overreaction actually causes increases in piracy or theft by removing the respect of the *paying customer* for a business or industry.
So making sure you realize I addressed your issue, If I have any song or album from you I paid you for it. If you are not selling enough products to people like me then you are failing in one of the areas listed at the top. Attempts to take away my civil liberties because someone else copied your stuff will cause a backlash from people like me, your potential paying customer.
Re: Re: Re:
Better boulder pusher as to artist analogy, Some one who has a talent to move boulders by having the gift of strength pushes a boulder to a park at the top of the hill and then demands a toll to all those who would make use of the boulder by resting there. Gets mayor to give them exclusive rights for granting permission to sit on said boulder for a year. Before the year is up demands the government extend exclusive use time, and beef up police enforcement for the boulder. Take the last part and rinse and repeat multiple times. Eventually still feeling entitled, bitter and upset because sometimes people may be sit on the boulder without paying, boulder pusher demands limits to everybody's liberties in the form of drastic SOPA style legislation. Side note: non-artists are boulder pushers who just get paid for hours spent pushing boulders with no entitlement after the original payment is made for their services rendered.
Re: Re:
No one wants to see the internet destroyed, but that doesn't make it ok to rip off one group of workers in society does it?
So some artists feel ripped off, but that doesn't make it ok to destroy the Internet for society does it?