Rather than attempting to reply for the chain above, I thought that I would state my reason's on why this is a big deal in its own thread.
Lets start with the obvious. This is a news agency. I would be surprised if their entire business model does not revolve around copyright. Even if the writer doesn't know the difference (which I would be skeptical of) their editor should definitely know. News organizations usually do a pretty good job of making sure at least someone covering a topic (the writer or editor) understands the subject. For who ever speculated that the editor was on vacation, I am sure that someone was still supposed to review the article.
Next reason why its a big deal. The difference between patents and copyright (as I am sure most readers that frequent this site can tell you) is a minimum of 50 years. And that is assuming that the copyright holder dies the moment the copyright on the work comes into existence (also that you only look at the current written rules with no adjustments). Remember patents are 20 years, copyright creator life time plus 70 years. So next time you think there is no difference between the two, you should think what it would mean to you if a judge sentenced you to jail for life without prole instead of the 20 years you were supposed to get. I bet that would mean something different to you.
Same here, there is a tremendous time difference between the two. If its too confusing for people to understand the basic differences then I think that is an indication that they obviously need work. Also given that fact that nearly everyone on this planet is impacted on a daily basis by both of these concepts we should all have some understanding of the differences.
Think my statement above is laughable, you can't use the internet, watch tv, or listen to the radio without encountering copyright. And its getting hard to eat without swallowing someones patent. Use a cell phone, you are dealing with both.
So yea, I will repeat it again. It is a big deal. Newspapers have been complaining for years about all of the business that the internet has cost them, well, if they can't even get the basics correct how can we trust that they are reporting on the complicated.
we forcibly separate the telecom business from the content delivery business this will contain to happen.
We should just designate a few companies as telecom providers and they can not do anything other than hook you up to the network. Their entire existence will be the building, expanding, and maintaining the various telecommunication networks (this includes but is not limited to voice, video, and data). Allow them to sell access using any plan they want as long as at least 2 of them servicing an area. If an area only has 1 provider then it run as a local utility and it must have all changes approved.
Entertainment Studios, Cable/Satellite companies, music labels, etc, can have absolutely no relationships (other than buying access as everyone else will have to) with the telecom providers.
No net neutrality issues. No bundling craziness. In most places where there exists a large number of people you should get genuine competition. For smaller/rural areas you should at least have the options that currently exist and the community will have some input into what is offered.
I have to agree. I believe that ALL people involved in any type of security work (police, private, military used in any capacity domestically, etc) should be required to were a device that records (audio and video) everything they do during their working shift.
This data should be retained for a minimum of 2 years and any person involved in any type of incident with the officer should be able to request copies of any of the records. And not just the ones they are involved with, any, in order to establish typical behavior of the person.
Additionally, if we are talking about a person that has to the ability to arrest someone, then a complete unedited copy of the the arrest must be submitted with the arrest. Failure to comply is an automatic acquittal for the arrestee and an automatic 30 day suspension (without pay) for the arresting person(s). And the punishment should increase if it continues until they are eventually terminated and put onto a list that prevents them from being employed an in position that allows them to arrest ever again.
Harsh and invasive? Yes, but that is because it just doesn't seem like you can really trust any of these people any longer. Maybe you never could and technology has just awoken the public, but I certainly do not feel like these are the groups that I was taught to always respect and trust as a child.
The only other thought I have is that these guys are moving into dangerous territory. And I'm not talking about courts, money, or rights; I'm talking about the personal physical kind. They had better be careful, since they are so infamous at the moment it wouldn't be hard to come by information on their whereabouts. If they threaten the wrong person (since there us all kinds of crazy on the net), the whole deal may be over before the courts even have time to deal with it.
That ship has already left the port and has no return voyage, ever.
America's had its short window of partisan cooperation for the twenty-first century; which was used to take away said rights. Check back again in a 75 to 100 year and maybe they will consent working together again.
Now that they have have the right monitor you with no oversight (public at least, I'm sure there a hidden structure in there somewhere), we'll get more reasons why they can't rescind the bad laws they made than there are pages in the IRS tax code.
As sad and transparent as the excuse for the withdrawal is, I almost wish it were allowed.
Would that not set precedent that the mere presence of such tools is cause for dismissal because the infringement is not provable? Then everyone would just have one installed which should help combat all infringement cases.
Now I'm not really naive enough to really believe this is what would happen, so its just wishful thinking, but it was still a pleasant though.
If we are talking only of a purchased in-game currency, then it should be viewed the same as a gift-card from a store.
In the case of gift cards, the only way you would completely lose all value is if the company/store in question filed for bankruptcy.
EA has, and should continue to have, the ability to shutdown any of their services they choose, but, they should also have to cover the purchased (unused) currency either as a refund, allowing it to be transferred to another of their products, or even as credit to purchasing another game.
I guarantee if a retailer like Target suddenly decided to stop accepting their store gift cards and they were not in process of bankruptcy or closing their business, that they would have to come up with away for customers to receive an equivalent amount of the cards value. Failure to do that would likely have every single state Attorney General's office filing a case against them.
This is a primary example of where the physical and digital worlds can, and should be handled in the exact same manor.
lol. That's not how six strikes works, you silly, fear-mongering buffoon.
It's not run by the public. I can't just "send a message to the ISP and accuse you of infringement".
If not the copyright holder (i.e someone in the public), exactly who does make the accusations of infringement? Or do you think that you must be a some mega-corporation in order to have a valid copyright?
And that is even a better example of why this ruling can not be allowed to stand.
If the copyright owners decide that they no longer want to be part of iTunes, what happens when they terminate the contract. Now Apple and the users are potentially infringing, since I would be surprised if the contract specifically states that once the contract no longer exists that the rights continue as if the contract was still in effect. The reason that no one would specifically state that condition is that once an item is sold at that moment, we all have expectations about certain rights that we currently have. This ruling, says that you don't that those rights.
The fact is that everyone has to operate as if something that could happen will happen (legally speaking). Even if everyone agrees that it would never occur, if it can, it will eventually. And claiming that no reasonable person would enforce it like is not a valid defense.
So the best solution is that this ruling is overturned. Otherwise, we had all expect to get even more complicated legalese in our digital lives.
I think that you are missing the point. Its not really about being able to resale a 99 cent MP3. Its about what this opens people up to legally from a technical point of view.
Do you have kids? Ever buy them a digital copy of something were you first download it to your machine and then install on their device? I certainly do, but legally this activity could be considered infringement.
Is it fair use, yes, but I think we all know just how well that usually works. If a company decided it wasn't then you would have to go to court and fight it, but how many will really do that? This opens everyone, and I really mean everyone, to being extorted.
Well Glenn you can count me among the parents that accompany the kids to get them a game. The difference is that you will not hear me give some half-assed excuse.
I've 2 children one boy about to enter his teenage years and one girl a couple of years younger. I have purchased numerous games for them which are labeled as mature. Most of the time this is just a joke. You see worse things on the 6 o'clock news, and definitely worse on prime time TV.
I have no problem allowing my kids to play most video games. There has only been a handful of games I have not allowed my children to play and even then its only been a maturity issue that has delayed them. Maybe because I pay attention and we talked a lot about fantasy vs real world when they were younger. We don't talk about it that much any longer, but then they both seem to have a pretty good grasp on things.
I know a lot of people disagree with me, but I think that insulating children from reality as most do (American's at least), is just asking for some of the issues that we see. The world is not fair, it is generally not kind, you will hear 'obscene' language (I quoted this because I have an issue describing any language as such, but that's another topic), and yes you will encounter violence. Shielding them from these things, to me, represents a bigger problem than kids playing fictitious video games.
Teaching children how to handle different situations is what being a parent ultimately is all about. Things like what is and is not socially acceptable (plus they need to understand that this changes over time), what is polite and what is not so polite and when it is OK to use the not so polite, and most importantly when you do something that is not socially acceptable, both little things as a child but more importantly things that impact others as an adult, they need to know that there are consequences and that in life you don't get to reload a save or start over.
Well, I guess I better start to learn to initiate effective counter measures myself.
If one thing that has been proven in the last decade is that the 'corporate' world is really-really, good at getting it wrong. So when the eventuality happens and a website mis-identifies a legitimate user as an attacker, this loophole should be usable by user as well. What we will have is the equivalent of mutually assured destruction on the internet (since everyone will be afraid to use a site for anything more than your basics) but if laws like this get passed into existence the best way to combat them is to use them against those that thought them a good idea.
I don't think we meant a commitment as in he as locked into Google but that he was nervous of having to change again after he changed over all of tools/services he was using to Google. As in he didn't want to have to change again if the service suddenly was dropped.
While I would say that's really a concern for anything, I suspect that some of these big internet entities (for lack a of better description) are more susceptible to this. What I mean is that Google/Amazon/Yahoo! have all branched significantly from their core business, it only makes sense that a lot of what they try will eventually be shuttered. Where as a smaller (product-wise, not financially) company will more than likely continue support something even during the downsizing of consumer use, since it will represent more of their business.
Actually as I read the article, I kept thinking that the reason none of these goons are in the court room is that they knew what was coming and vacated the country already.
I am not sure why, but the moment I read your post I envisioned a Constitutional amendment: 'The right to bear Patents' with the NPA 'National Patent Association' as the main lobbying group.
Kind of makes you wonder how the brain truly works, doesn't it?
I was basically thinking along the same line. I too think this could be the start of really fixing the patent system, because if there is one thing Americans are good at is changing the rules when we are no longer are the main beneficiary of the game.
While I agree that the Republican party is not the fascist party.
I have to completely disagree with your statement about the push to control our lives. That was the "War on Terror" and the creation of the Department of Homeland Defense.
Obama HealthCare is really just pandering to the large corporate entities (and yes you read that right). Its just a sneaky way to shift the costs out of the big guys pocket. So it forces you to get insurance, which means that those that don't use it support the costs on the company. Also makes states create their own group, so the really unhealthy can "convinced" to change to the private plan, again, so the big companies don't have to pay the bill. I mean you do know that all of the big companies have Self Sponsored plans, which essentially means that the name of your insurance company on your card is just who does the paperwork. The bill is just passed along from the insurance company to the actual company the person works for. So anything that gets them out of having to pay for sick people is money they can funnel somewhere else. They don't mind the healthy, just the sick.
I was thinking basically the same thing, what makes anyone think that these were 'errors'. The so called major one seems like something that would be intentionally put in. I don't believe for one moment that they did not know what it said and what it did. It was put there and probably planned as an 'error' when someone eventually discovered it, so that they could claim ignorance.
Just for thought...
Rather than attempting to reply for the chain above, I thought that I would state my reason's on why this is a big deal in its own thread.
Lets start with the obvious. This is a news agency. I would be surprised if their entire business model does not revolve around copyright. Even if the writer doesn't know the difference (which I would be skeptical of) their editor should definitely know. News organizations usually do a pretty good job of making sure at least someone covering a topic (the writer or editor) understands the subject. For who ever speculated that the editor was on vacation, I am sure that someone was still supposed to review the article.
Next reason why its a big deal. The difference between patents and copyright (as I am sure most readers that frequent this site can tell you) is a minimum of 50 years. And that is assuming that the copyright holder dies the moment the copyright on the work comes into existence (also that you only look at the current written rules with no adjustments). Remember patents are 20 years, copyright creator life time plus 70 years. So next time you think there is no difference between the two, you should think what it would mean to you if a judge sentenced you to jail for life without prole instead of the 20 years you were supposed to get. I bet that would mean something different to you.
Same here, there is a tremendous time difference between the two. If its too confusing for people to understand the basic differences then I think that is an indication that they obviously need work. Also given that fact that nearly everyone on this planet is impacted on a daily basis by both of these concepts we should all have some understanding of the differences.
Think my statement above is laughable, you can't use the internet, watch tv, or listen to the radio without encountering copyright. And its getting hard to eat without swallowing someones patent. Use a cell phone, you are dealing with both.
So yea, I will repeat it again. It is a big deal. Newspapers have been complaining for years about all of the business that the internet has cost them, well, if they can't even get the basics correct how can we trust that they are reporting on the complicated.
Until...
we forcibly separate the telecom business from the content delivery business this will contain to happen.
We should just designate a few companies as telecom providers and they can not do anything other than hook you up to the network. Their entire existence will be the building, expanding, and maintaining the various telecommunication networks (this includes but is not limited to voice, video, and data). Allow them to sell access using any plan they want as long as at least 2 of them servicing an area. If an area only has 1 provider then it run as a local utility and it must have all changes approved.
Entertainment Studios, Cable/Satellite companies, music labels, etc, can have absolutely no relationships (other than buying access as everyone else will have to) with the telecom providers.
No net neutrality issues. No bundling craziness. In most places where there exists a large number of people you should get genuine competition. For smaller/rural areas you should at least have the options that currently exist and the community will have some input into what is offered.
Re: Meanwhile, in DC....
I have to agree. I believe that ALL people involved in any type of security work (police, private, military used in any capacity domestically, etc) should be required to were a device that records (audio and video) everything they do during their working shift.
This data should be retained for a minimum of 2 years and any person involved in any type of incident with the officer should be able to request copies of any of the records. And not just the ones they are involved with, any, in order to establish typical behavior of the person.
Additionally, if we are talking about a person that has to the ability to arrest someone, then a complete unedited copy of the the arrest must be submitted with the arrest. Failure to comply is an automatic acquittal for the arrestee and an automatic 30 day suspension (without pay) for the arresting person(s). And the punishment should increase if it continues until they are eventually terminated and put onto a list that prevents them from being employed an in position that allows them to arrest ever again.
Harsh and invasive? Yes, but that is because it just doesn't seem like you can really trust any of these people any longer. Maybe you never could and technology has just awoken the public, but I certainly do not feel like these are the groups that I was taught to always respect and trust as a child.
Re: Just when you think they can't do anything more stupid...
supposed to read:
'since there are all kinds...'
Just when you think they can't do anything more stupid...
Subject says almost all of it.
The only other thought I have is that these guys are moving into dangerous territory. And I'm not talking about courts, money, or rights; I'm talking about the personal physical kind. They had better be careful, since they are so infamous at the moment it wouldn't be hard to come by information on their whereabouts. If they threaten the wrong person (since there us all kinds of crazy on the net), the whole deal may be over before the courts even have time to deal with it.
Poll is too late....
That ship has already left the port and has no return voyage, ever.
America's had its short window of partisan cooperation for the twenty-first century; which was used to take away said rights. Check back again in a 75 to 100 year and maybe they will consent working together again.
Now that they have have the right monitor you with no oversight (public at least, I'm sure there a hidden structure in there somewhere), we'll get more reasons why they can't rescind the bad laws they made than there are pages in the IRS tax code.
(untitled comment)
At this rate maybe it would save every one time if the politicians would just come out and say that
everyone not in the US House or Senate is considered to be a terrorist and is on the watch list.
Re:
As sad and transparent as the excuse for the withdrawal is, I almost wish it were allowed.
Would that not set precedent that the mere presence of such tools is cause for dismissal because the infringement is not provable? Then everyone would just have one installed which should help combat all infringement cases.
Now I'm not really naive enough to really believe this is what would happen, so its just wishful thinking, but it was still a pleasant though.
(untitled comment)
If we are talking only of a purchased in-game currency, then it should be viewed the same as a gift-card from a store.
In the case of gift cards, the only way you would completely lose all value is if the company/store in question filed for bankruptcy.
EA has, and should continue to have, the ability to shutdown any of their services they choose, but, they should also have to cover the purchased (unused) currency either as a refund, allowing it to be transferred to another of their products, or even as credit to purchasing another game.
I guarantee if a retailer like Target suddenly decided to stop accepting their store gift cards and they were not in process of bankruptcy or closing their business, that they would have to come up with away for customers to receive an equivalent amount of the cards value. Failure to do that would likely have every single state Attorney General's office filing a case against them.
This is a primary example of where the physical and digital worlds can, and should be handled in the exact same manor.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
If not the copyright holder (i.e someone in the public), exactly who does make the accusations of infringement? Or do you think that you must be a some mega-corporation in order to have a valid copyright?
Re: Re: Re: Boo effing hoo
And that is even a better example of why this ruling can not be allowed to stand.
If the copyright owners decide that they no longer want to be part of iTunes, what happens when they terminate the contract. Now Apple and the users are potentially infringing, since I would be surprised if the contract specifically states that once the contract no longer exists that the rights continue as if the contract was still in effect. The reason that no one would specifically state that condition is that once an item is sold at that moment, we all have expectations about certain rights that we currently have. This ruling, says that you don't that those rights.
The fact is that everyone has to operate as if something that could happen will happen (legally speaking). Even if everyone agrees that it would never occur, if it can, it will eventually. And claiming that no reasonable person would enforce it like is not a valid defense.
So the best solution is that this ruling is overturned. Otherwise, we had all expect to get even more complicated legalese in our digital lives.
Re: Boo effing hoo
I think that you are missing the point. Its not really about being able to resale a 99 cent MP3. Its about what this opens people up to legally from a technical point of view.
Do you have kids? Ever buy them a digital copy of something were you first download it to your machine and then install on their device? I certainly do, but legally this activity could be considered infringement.
Is it fair use, yes, but I think we all know just how well that usually works. If a company decided it wasn't then you would have to go to court and fight it, but how many will really do that? This opens everyone, and I really mean everyone, to being extorted.
Re:
Well Glenn you can count me among the parents that accompany the kids to get them a game. The difference is that you will not hear me give some half-assed excuse.
I've 2 children one boy about to enter his teenage years and one girl a couple of years younger. I have purchased numerous games for them which are labeled as mature. Most of the time this is just a joke. You see worse things on the 6 o'clock news, and definitely worse on prime time TV.
I have no problem allowing my kids to play most video games. There has only been a handful of games I have not allowed my children to play and even then its only been a maturity issue that has delayed them. Maybe because I pay attention and we talked a lot about fantasy vs real world when they were younger. We don't talk about it that much any longer, but then they both seem to have a pretty good grasp on things.
I know a lot of people disagree with me, but I think that insulating children from reality as most do (American's at least), is just asking for some of the issues that we see. The world is not fair, it is generally not kind, you will hear 'obscene' language (I quoted this because I have an issue describing any language as such, but that's another topic), and yes you will encounter violence. Shielding them from these things, to me, represents a bigger problem than kids playing fictitious video games.
Teaching children how to handle different situations is what being a parent ultimately is all about. Things like what is and is not socially acceptable (plus they need to understand that this changes over time), what is polite and what is not so polite and when it is OK to use the not so polite, and most importantly when you do something that is not socially acceptable, both little things as a child but more importantly things that impact others as an adult, they need to know that there are consequences and that in life you don't get to reload a save or start over.
Time to learn how to wage cyberwar
Well, I guess I better start to learn to initiate effective counter measures myself.
If one thing that has been proven in the last decade is that the 'corporate' world is really-really, good at getting it wrong. So when the eventuality happens and a website mis-identifies a legitimate user as an attacker, this loophole should be usable by user as well. What we will have is the equivalent of mutually assured destruction on the internet (since everyone will be afraid to use a site for anything more than your basics) but if laws like this get passed into existence the best way to combat them is to use them against those that thought them a good idea.
Re: Re: Google has done this for some time
I don't think we meant a commitment as in he as locked into Google but that he was nervous of having to change again after he changed over all of tools/services he was using to Google. As in he didn't want to have to change again if the service suddenly was dropped.
While I would say that's really a concern for anything, I suspect that some of these big internet entities (for lack a of better description) are more susceptible to this. What I mean is that Google/Amazon/Yahoo! have all branched significantly from their core business, it only makes sense that a lot of what they try will eventually be shuttered. Where as a smaller (product-wise, not financially) company will more than likely continue support something even during the downsizing of consumer use, since it will represent more of their business.
Re: Re: I Predict Criminal Charges
Actually as I read the article, I kept thinking that the reason none of these goons are in the court room is that they knew what was coming and vacated the country already.
Re: Idiocy
I am not sure why, but the moment I read your post I envisioned a Constitutional amendment: 'The right to bear Patents' with the NPA 'National Patent Association' as the main lobbying group.
Kind of makes you wonder how the brain truly works, doesn't it?
Re: Re:
I was basically thinking along the same line. I too think this could be the start of really fixing the patent system, because if there is one thing Americans are good at is changing the rules when we are no longer are the main beneficiary of the game.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Background
While I agree that the Republican party is not the fascist party.
I have to completely disagree with your statement about the push to control our lives. That was the "War on Terror" and the creation of the Department of Homeland Defense.
Obama HealthCare is really just pandering to the large corporate entities (and yes you read that right). Its just a sneaky way to shift the costs out of the big guys pocket. So it forces you to get insurance, which means that those that don't use it support the costs on the company. Also makes states create their own group, so the really unhealthy can "convinced" to change to the private plan, again, so the big companies don't have to pay the bill. I mean you do know that all of the big companies have Self Sponsored plans, which essentially means that the name of your insurance company on your card is just who does the paperwork. The bill is just passed along from the insurance company to the actual company the person works for. So anything that gets them out of having to pay for sick people is money they can funnel somewhere else. They don't mind the healthy, just the sick.
Re:
I was thinking basically the same thing, what makes anyone think that these were 'errors'. The so called major one seems like something that would be intentionally put in. I don't believe for one moment that they did not know what it said and what it did. It was put there and probably planned as an 'error' when someone eventually discovered it, so that they could claim ignorance.