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<title>Techdirt. Stories filed under &quot;pennies&quot;</title>
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<image><title>Techdirt. Stories filed under &quot;pennies&quot;</title><url>http://www.techdirt.com/images/td-88x31.gif</url><link>http://www.techdirt.com/</link></image>
<item>
<pubDate>Tue, 26 Feb 2013 17:00:00 PST</pubDate>
<title>DailyDirt: How Much Are Coins Worth?</title>
<dc:creator>Joyce Hung</dc:creator>
<link>http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20101029/10162811651/dailydirt-how-much-are-coins-worth.shtml</link>
<guid>http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20101029/10162811651/dailydirt-how-much-are-coins-worth.shtml</guid>
<description><![CDATA[ While early coins represented the value of the metal they were made of, modern day coins are issued by the government and their value is determined by free market currency exchange rates. Ideally the value of a coin should be higher than the cost of the metals used to make it, but when the price of metals, like copper, increases, pennies can end up being worth more for their metal. For example, the Canadian government has officially <a href="http://www.fin.gc.ca/n13/13-015-eng.asp">stopped distributing pennies</a> because not only do they cost almost 1.6 cents per penny to produce, but most people think pennies are worthless. But are they? Here are a few more interesting coin-related stories.

<ul>

<li> <a title="http://www.csmonitor.com/Business/2011/0606/2-500-pennies-Is-it-legal-to-pay-a-bill-in-pennies" href="http://bit.ly/12Q8D3m">Pennies aren't worthless. They're legal tender and carry a value of 1 cent. That's why a Utah man tried to pay a disputed $25 doctor's bill in pennies.</a> After he presented the clinic with almost 14 lbs of pennies and demanded that they count them, he was <a href="http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&#038;sid=22230106">found guilty</a> of disorderly conduct and fined $140. Hopefully he didn't try to pay the fine in pennies as well. [<a href="http://www.csmonitor.com/Business/2011/0606/2-500-pennies-Is-it-legal-to-pay-a-bill-in-pennies">url</a>]</li>

<li> <a title="http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2012/08/06/158197529/why-are-there-100-cents-in-a-dollar-ask-thomas-jefferson" href="http://n.pr/Y5SIdv">Have you ever wondered why there are 100 cents in a dollar?</a> In 1784, Thomas Jefferson suggested that the U.S. dollar should be decimalized, and being the influential guy that he was, he managed to convince the government to follow the suggestions he proposed in his <a href="http://oll.libertyfund.org/?option=com_staticxt&#038;staticfile=show.php%3Ftitle=756&#038;chapter=86330&#038;layout=html&#038;Itemid=27">essay</a>, "Notes on the Establishment of a Money Unit, and of a Coinage for the United States." [<a href="http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2012/08/06/158197529/why-are-there-100-cents-in-a-dollar-ask-thomas-jefferson">url</a>]</li>

<li> <a title="http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/watercooler/2013/feb/20/trillion-dollar-coin-yours-995/" href="http://bit.ly/11WLm0j">Coin collectors can now get their very own platinum-plated "trillion dollar coin" for just $9.95</a>. The coins commemorate the idea that the U.S. Treasury could simply mint a $1 trillion platinum coin to get around the debt ceiling. Apparently, <a href="http://www.mediaite.com/tv/this-is-the-greatest-and-best-trillion-dollar-coin-in-the-world-tribute/">U.S. law</a> allows the Treasury to produce platinum coins in any denomination. [<a href="http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/watercooler/2013/feb/20/trillion-dollar-coin-yours-995/">url</a>]</li>


<li> <a title="http://techcrunch.com/2012/04/04/royal-canadian-mints-mintchip-looks-to-officially-digitize-cash/" href="http://tcrn.ch/VI7sRA">The Royal Canadian Mint wants to create a secure digital alternative to cash in the form of MintChip.</a> The MintChip smart card chip could be installed in a number of devices, and value would be transferred onto the chip by a MintChip broker, allowing users to securely exchange Canadian dollars both online and offline. [<a href="http://techcrunch.com/2012/04/04/royal-canadian-mints-mintchip-looks-to-officially-digitize-cash/">url</a>]</li>


</ul>


If you'd like to read more awesome and interesting stuff, check out this unrelated (but not entirely random!) <a title="http://www.stumbleupon.com/to/stumble/stumblethru:www.techdirt.com" href="http://bit.ly/fagV8c">Techdirt post</a>.<br /><br /><a href="http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20101029/10162811651/dailydirt-how-much-are-coins-worth.shtml">Permalink</a> | <a href="http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20101029/10162811651/dailydirt-how-much-are-coins-worth.shtml#comments">Comments</a> | <a href="http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20101029/10162811651/dailydirt-how-much-are-coins-worth.shtml?op=sharethis">Email This Story</a><br />
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<slash:department>urls-we-dig-up</slash:department>
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<item>
<pubDate>Mon, 17 Sep 2012 05:14:25 PDT</pubDate>
<title>Royal Canadian Mint Claims Copyright On One Cent Piece, Threatens Indie Musician Over Album Art</title>
<dc:creator>Zachary Knight</dc:creator>
<link>http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120914/09423020383/royal-canadian-mint-claims-copyright-one-cent-piece-threatens-indie-musician-over-album-art.shtml</link>
<guid>http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120914/09423020383/royal-canadian-mint-claims-copyright-one-cent-piece-threatens-indie-musician-over-album-art.shtml</guid>
<description><![CDATA[ Recently, we learned that Canadian musician&nbsp;Dave Gunning ran into some copyright troubles regarding his latest album, No More Pennies. No, he did not use music or lyrics from any other artist without permission. What he did was something far worse, at least in the eyes of one organization. What he had the audacity to do was include images of the soon-to-be-retired Canadian penny.
<center>
<a href="http://imgur.com/7PX05"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/7PX05.jpg" width=450 /></a>
</center>
When the Royal Canadian Mint caught wind of Dave&#39;s tribute album and the timely use of the penny in its artwork, it sent a legal threat to Dave stating that he was <a href="http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/1254999--nova-scotia-musician-warned-by-mint-for-using-pennies-on-cd-cover" target="_blank">infringing the copyright of the Mint and that he must pay a royalty on each album sold</a>. Of course, the Mint did decide to give him a break on this royalty by waving the fees on the first 2000 albums sold, but said he had to pay after that. That was quite generous, or so the Mint was quick to claim.
<blockquote>
<i>&ldquo;We have helped this guy out by giving him a break,&rdquo; Alex Reeves, communications manager for the Royal Canadian Mint, said Tuesday.</i><br />
<br />
<i>&ldquo;Now that we have explained the rules and the policy, it&rsquo;s very clear what the implications are for using the penny&rsquo;s image. And we&rsquo;re certainly being consistent in the applications of our policy for any for-profit use,&rdquo; he said.</i></blockquote>
Dave, however, saw things a bit differently.
<blockquote>
<i>&ldquo;It is pennies to them but is pretty substantial for me,&rdquo; said Gunning, who won two East Coast Music Awards in 2011, adding &ldquo;we really had no idea&rdquo; the ode to the penny was going to land him in hot water.</i></blockquote>
I had to scratch my head for a bit on this little dispute. Here in the US, works of the government are automatically in the public domain and can be freely used by the public. In regards to currency, while it is illegal to create counterfeit currency, it is legal to duplicate the images of currency as long as it is clearly a fake. Things are not quite so clear cut in Canada.&nbsp;<br />
<br />
For the Canadian government, works it produces are covered by a <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crown_copyright#Canada" target="_blank">Crown Copyright</a>&nbsp;in which the government retains some control over the use. However, even this explanation might not be quite so cut and dry. As <a href="http://excesscopyright.blogspot.com/2012/09/nabob-of-non-cents-royal-canadian-mint.html" target="_blank">Canadian lawyer Howard Knopf explains</a>:
<blockquote>
<i>To be clear, the album cover shown above does not infringe any so-called intellectual property rights of the mint because:</i>
<ul>
<li>
<i>If there ever was copyright in the Canadian penny, which is doubtful, it has long since expired and the above album cover would not be infringing copyright in any event</i></li>
<li>
<i>The above album cover does not "use" or "adopt" the Canadian penny in any technical sense covered by the&nbsp;Trade-marks Act.</i></li>
</ul>
<i>Someone over at the Mint should learn some basic facts about intellectual property law, This kind of thing makes people lose respect for IP law and for the credibility of government institutions. There&rsquo;s nothing funny about that.</i></blockquote>
Knopf points out that the Mint has even attempted similar actions before, when the city of Toronto created an ad campaign which featured an image of the penny. Just as it was then, it is now: the penny, if it was ever covered by copyright, has long since entered the public domain. This is because Crown Copyright only lasts 50 years. This fact, and plenty of negative publicity, lead the Mint to drop its action against Toronto.&nbsp;<br />
<br />
Now, we learn that <a href="http://www.theglobeandmail.com/arts/music/mint-drops-demand-for-royalty-on-penny-inspired-folk-music-album/article4542896/" target="_blank">the Mint has turned tail and dropped its action against Dave too</a>:
<blockquote>
<i>The mint did not only waive the fee for Mr. Gunning, but said it would also review its intellectual property policy to ensure that it&rsquo;s fair.</i><br />
<br />
<i>&ldquo;We recognize our policy as it is today may not consider the individual needs and circumstances of those who request the use of our images,&rdquo; spokeswoman Christine Aquino said from Ottawa.</i><br />
<br />
<i>&ldquo;We&rsquo;re allowing [Gunning] to do this and we truly wish him well in his career.&rdquo;</i></blockquote>
Perhaps this change of heart came about because those running the legal offices of the Mint were reminded that they don&#39;t have a solid claim on the copyright of the penny. Even if they did, as Knopf clearly pointed out, Dave&#39;s use of the penny in his album work is transformative and as such covered by fair dealing. Either way, Dave is happy to have this saga ended.
<blockquote>
<i>&ldquo;Everything&rsquo;s gonna taste better now. I&rsquo;m gonna sleep better,&rdquo; laughed Mr. Gunning, who said he was overwhelmed by the attention his story had generated across Canada and the United States.</i><br />
<br />
<i>&ldquo;This all started very simply from the fact that I&rsquo;ve got a wife and three kids and just want to be able to make a living, and felt that I had to stand up for that.&rdquo;</i></blockquote>
All of this raises the question of why a government has any claim of copyright on its currency to begin with. In reality, to claim such a copyright makes no sense. If the concern is that people would attempt to print their own currency, that is what counterfeit laws are for. Otherwise, it seems to be an unneeded burden on the freedom of Canadians.&nbsp;<br /><br /><a href="http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120914/09423020383/royal-canadian-mint-claims-copyright-one-cent-piece-threatens-indie-musician-over-album-art.shtml">Permalink</a> | <a href="http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120914/09423020383/royal-canadian-mint-claims-copyright-one-cent-piece-threatens-indie-musician-over-album-art.shtml#comments">Comments</a> | <a href="http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120914/09423020383/royal-canadian-mint-claims-copyright-one-cent-piece-threatens-indie-musician-over-album-art.shtml?op=sharethis">Email This Story</a><br />
 ]]></description>
<slash:department>penny-for-your-thoughts</slash:department>
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<pubDate>Tue, 2 Nov 2010 14:51:24 PDT</pubDate>
<title>One Dunkin Donuts Tries To Abolish The Penny... Until Customers Demand It Back</title>
<dc:creator>Mike Masnick</dc:creator>
<link>http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20101102/12182111692/one-dunkin-donuts-tries-to-abolish-the-penny-until-customers-demand-it-back.shtml</link>
<guid>http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20101102/12182111692/one-dunkin-donuts-tries-to-abolish-the-penny-until-customers-demand-it-back.shtml</guid>
<description><![CDATA[ Don't mess with the penny.  There's been a movement around for years to "abolish the penny," as a unit of currency.  One Dunkin' Donuts shop decided to take matters into its own hands (not as anything against the penny, but for the sake of "efficiency,") and <a href="http://consumerist.com/2010/10/a-lone-dunkin-donuts-sort-of-abolishes-pennies.html" target="_blank">put up a sign saying they'd just start rounding change</a> to the nearest nickel instead (unless you complained...):
<center>
<img src="http://imgur.com/Wa5cL.jpg" width=400 />
</center>
Apparently, that lasted all of about a day, and due to "customer feedback," <a href="http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2010/11/02/131002982/that-rogue-dunkin-donuts-shop-brought-back-the-penny" target="_blank">the shop has removed the sign</a> and will go back to giving (and taking) every penny.  However, Dunkin Donuts corporate bosses have noted that franchises are free to do whatever they like, so if they want to ban the penny, they're free to do so (assuming local laws allow it).
<br /><br />
I do wonder how much of this is psychological.  I'm sure some people just have a sentimental attachment to pennies, but I would guess that most people who saw such a sign got upset about the idea of being short-changed, even by a few pennies, and never thought that it would also even out in their own favor at times.<br /><br /><a href="http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20101102/12182111692/one-dunkin-donuts-tries-to-abolish-the-penny-until-customers-demand-it-back.shtml">Permalink</a> | <a href="http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20101102/12182111692/one-dunkin-donuts-tries-to-abolish-the-penny-until-customers-demand-it-back.shtml#comments">Comments</a> | <a href="http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20101102/12182111692/one-dunkin-donuts-tries-to-abolish-the-penny-until-customers-demand-it-back.shtml?op=sharethis">Email This Story</a><br />
 ]]></description>
<slash:department>penny-for-your-thoughts?</slash:department>
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<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 12:59:09 PDT</pubDate>
<title>Is It Fraud If You Collect One Penny Legally Over And Over Again?</title>
<dc:creator>Mike Masnick</dc:creator>
<link>http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20080528/0134101246.shtml</link>
<guid>http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20080528/0134101246.shtml</guid>
<description><![CDATA[ If you've ever needed to associate your bank account with some online service (such as PayPal), you know the drill: you provide the necessary info to the service, and a few days later, it makes two small deposits into your account (usually between 1 and 5 cents or so).  You then have to report back the amount of the deposits to prove you own that account.  It's a relatively cheap way for the services to confirm the account details.  However, to one man, it was also an opportunity to make some cash.  He set up automated scripts to basically use just such a system to open thousands of accounts and <a href="http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2008/05/man-allegedly-b.html" target="_new">collect approximately $50,000 of these micro-transactions</a>.  As the guy noted for at least one of these accounts (with Google's CheckOut system), he read through the terms of service and this did not appear to violate the terms.  In fact, it does make you wonder how illegal this really was.  The fact that the guy used fake names (of various Mike Judge characters, which seems like a nod to the "skim a penny" computer hack from Judge's movie <i>Office Space</i>) probably hurts his case -- but it still raises some questions.  If there are no limits on accounts and no other terms of service that prevent this sort of action, what exactly about it is illegal?  Is there a certain number of accounts that you can open before it's considered fraud?  Or does it have to do with his intent -- which was solely to get the microdeposits, rather than to use the accounts?<br /><br /><a href="http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20080528/0134101246.shtml">Permalink</a> | <a href="http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20080528/0134101246.shtml#comments">Comments</a> | <a href="http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20080528/0134101246.shtml?op=sharethis">Email This Story</a><br />
 ]]></description>
<slash:department>legal-conundrum</slash:department>
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