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<title>Techdirt. Stories filed under &quot;debate&quot;</title>
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<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jan 2013 09:25:56 PST</pubDate>
<title>California Senator Leland Yee Tells Gamers To Shut Up And Let The Grown Ups Talk</title>
<dc:creator>Tim Cushing</dc:creator>
<link>http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130124/18015421783/california-senator-leland-yee-tells-gamers-to-shut-up-let-grown-ups-talk.shtml</link>
<guid>http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130124/18015421783/california-senator-leland-yee-tells-gamers-to-shut-up-let-grown-ups-talk.shtml</guid>
<description><![CDATA[ As we&#39;ve noted, recent events have pushed the discussion of video games (namely the violent ones) back to the forefront. Even the President has chimed in, <a href="http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130118/17393421735/obama-tasks-cdc-with-study-video-games-violent-media.shtml" target="_blank">authorizing the CDC</a> to perform a study to determine if any link exists between violent media (including video games) and so-called "gun violence."<br />
<br />
While most gamers (and indeed, most people who can put two and two together without adding a bunch of rhetoric into the equation) have come to the rather sensible conclusion that violent games do not create violent people, the floor is still open to debate, most likely for the next several years. The sheer number of violent video games sold has failed, over the course of many years, to be matched by a comparable escalation in violent crime. If you&#39;re a gamer, you&#39;ve probably thrown this argument into the debate a number of times and wondered why more people, especially those who active work to censor violent games, haven&#39;t arrived at the same conclusion.<br />
<br />
<a href="http://gamepolitics.com/2013/01/24/leland-yee-gamers-have-no-credibility-violent-video-game-debate-should-just-quiet-down" target="_blank">Well, if so, here&#39;s your answer, courtesy of California State Senator Leland Yee</a>, whose last effort to censor video games <a href="http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20110629/03232914904/california-politician-who-wrote-unconstitutional-anti-video-game-law-plans-to-try-again-with-new-law.shtml" target="_blank">was shut dow</a>n by the US Supreme Court.
<blockquote>
<i>"Gamers have got to just quiet down," Yee, D-San Francisco, said in an interview Tuesday. "<b>Gamers have no credibility in this argument</b>. This is all about their lust for violence and the industry&#39;s lust for money. This is a billion-dollar industry. This is about their self-interest."</i></blockquote>
You got that, gamers? No credibility. None. Beat it. If we want to talk about video games, <i>like grown ups</i>, we&#39;ll do it without you. We&#39;ll just talk to senators and the CDC and concerned parents&#39; groups and <a href="http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20121219/09124821437/nras-plan-if-we-blame-video-games-movies-sandy-hook-massacre-perhaps-people-will-stop-blaming-guns.shtml" target="_blank">the NRA</a>. But we won&#39;t be talking to game developers. No way. And certainly not gamers, whose opinion amounts to nothing in a debate of this (periodic) importance.<br />
<br />
You know who else won&#39;t be included in this conversation until <i>absolutely necessary</i>? The Supreme Court. Because if anyone&#39;s opinion is invalid, it&#39;s the highest court in the land.
<blockquote>
<i>Yee, a former child psychologist, believes the court set the standard too high for any study to firmly link the cause and effect of violence.</i></blockquote>
Yes. This court, which stated that any effects caused by violent video games were too small to be distinguished from effects produced by other media, needs to butt out. Fortunately for Yee, the Supreme Court rarely offers an opinion until asked directly, unlike the millions of gamers who spout off in every forum imaginable.<br />
<br />
Yes, Yee is right about the industry being self-interested. It does have a lot at stake, especially if some sort of government regulation results from this renewed attention. Pleasing a government censor is a lot harder than pleasing an independent ratings group. One has a political motivation to save humanity (mostly "the children") from "violent media." The other has an interest in preserving its autonomy by doing its job properly and giving each game a rating that reflects the content. In other words, one is more willing to kill the end result of $30 million in production costs in order to score political victories while the other wants to make sure mature content doesn&#39;t end up with a family-friendly T slapped across the front of the case.<br />
<br />
Elsewhere in the article, <a href="http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Video-games-drawn-into-violence-debate-4219013.php#page-1" target="_blank">you can find thoughtful comments from the very people Yee feels should just shut up</a>. Kris Graft, editor-in-chief of Gamasutra, feels the violent video game problem is one of perception.
<blockquote>
<i>"It&#39;s not all about shooting people in the head and guts everywhere, but that&#39;s what the public perception is, and probably rightfully so," said Kris Graft, editor-in-chief of the San Francisco-based site Gamasutra, which along with its print magazine sibling, Game Developer, covers the video game industry. "There is plenty of diversity in video games, but I don&#39;t think it&#39;s being highlighted enough."</i></blockquote>
So does Kate Edwards of IGDA:
<blockquote>
<i>"It&#39;s important to point out that some of the most popular video games in history are all titles such as &#39;Wii Sports,&#39; &#39;The Sims,&#39; &#39;Super Mario Brothers,&#39; the Pokemon series and &#39;Tetris,&#39; " said Kate Edwards, executive director of the trade group International Game Developers Association. "So while the games containing more violence get the attention, they&#39;re not a reflection of the game industry as a whole, just as a single genre of film, TV or literature doesn&#39;t represent that medium as a whole."</i></blockquote>
Edwards also welcomes the CDC&#39;s study, stating that it will add to the "large body" of existing studies that have failed to show a link between fake violence and real violence.<br />
<br />
But Yee doesn&#39;t want to hear from these people, who are rightly concerned because they have an investment in this industry and who feel this added attention is doing harm to not only their careers, but also to the games they love.<br />
<br />
The people who <i>should</i> be keeping their mouths shut, or at least, sitting in the back with their hands folded until called upon, are those who know nothing about video games beyond scare reels put together by like-minded individuals and anecdotal "evidence" cobbled together out of headlines like &#39;Adam Lanza played Call of Duty&#39; and &#39;Hans Breivik said Call of Duty <a href="http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120420/19032418594/breivik-press-ongoing-myth-violent-gamer.shtml" target="_blank">taught him how to use guns</a>.&#39; Without a broader overview of the history, the industry and the culture, they&#39;re operating with a damaged data set culled from all the worst humanity has to offer and linked together by a single, gossamer strand of self-identifying as "gamers," ignoring the millions of other self-identifying gamers who are indistinguishable from others who have never played a game in their lives, united by the much thicker linkage of never having committed a violent crime.<br /><br /><a href="http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130124/18015421783/california-senator-leland-yee-tells-gamers-to-shut-up-let-grown-ups-talk.shtml">Permalink</a> | <a href="http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130124/18015421783/california-senator-leland-yee-tells-gamers-to-shut-up-let-grown-ups-talk.shtml#comments">Comments</a> | <a href="http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130124/18015421783/california-senator-leland-yee-tells-gamers-to-shut-up-let-grown-ups-talk.shtml?op=sharethis">Email This Story</a><br />
 ]]></description>
<slash:department>awww...-your-pet-legislation-got-shot-down-by-the-Supreme-Court...-u-mad-bro?</slash:department>
<wfw:commentRss>http://www.techdirt.com/comment_rss.php?sid=20130124/18015421783</wfw:commentRss>
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<pubDate>Wed, 19 Dec 2012 15:53:44 PST</pubDate>
<title>Senator Chambliss Says There's No Reason To Debate FISA Amendments Act; Just Pass It</title>
<dc:creator>Mike Masnick</dc:creator>
<link>http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20121219/11424621442/senator-chambliss-says-theres-no-reason-to-debate-fisa-amendments-act-just-pass-it.shtml</link>
<guid>http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20121219/11424621442/senator-chambliss-says-theres-no-reason-to-debate-fisa-amendments-act-just-pass-it.shtml</guid>
<description><![CDATA[ We've been covering in great detail the <a href="http://www.techdirt.com/blog/?tag=fisa+amendments+act">FISA Amendments Act</a>, which is likely to be renewed before the end of the year.  As you may recall, this was the "law" that expanded the ability of federal law enforcement to warrantlessly wiretap Americans -- and then, thanks to a <a href="http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120913/23182420380/house-approves-bill-to-spy-americans-misrepresenting-lying-about-whats-bill.shtml">secret interpretation</a> appears to be used to scoop up tons of information on Americans, despite appearing to be limited to only foreign communications.  As we noted recently, a former judge has made a pretty compelling case why the whole thing is <a href="http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20121213/23443021384/fisa-amendments-act-is-clearly-unconstitutional-congress-doesnt-care.shtml">completely unconstitutional</a>.  While Senator Wyden has put a hold on the renewal of the FAA, he's also said he'll <a href="http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20121213/07555621374/negotiations-continue-over-extension-feds-ability-to-spy-americans-no-debate-issues.shtml">lift the hold</a> if the Senate will consider some important amendments and actually debate the law.
<br /><br />
And yet... that might not happen.  Senator Saxby Chambliss, apparently with no regard to the Constitution or the privacy of the public he's supposed to represent, has apparently <a href="http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/senate/273597-senate-gop-object-to-considering-fisa-bill-calls-for-vote-on-house-version" target="_blank">complained that any debate is a waste of time</a> after Senator Majority Leader Harry Reid tried to bring up the issue.
<blockquote><i>
Reid wanted S. 3276 to be considered with a limited number of amendments, but Sen. Saxby Chambliss (R-Ga.) objected and said he didn&#8217;t understand why the Senate couldn&#8217;t just pass the House FISA bill. He referred to a letter stating that the Obama administration supports the House-version.
</i></blockquote>
So, apparently, as long as the White House wants to trample on Americans' 4th Amendment Rights, and there's a House version that was passed because Representatives <a href="http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120913/23182420380/house-approves-bill-to-spy-americans-misrepresenting-lying-about-whats-bill.shtml">misrepresented or lied</a> about what was in the bill, the Senate should just approve it?  Yikes.  We deserve better.  We should absolutely <a href="http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20121214/13494921388/demand-that-congress-actually-debate-fisa-amendments-act.shtml">demand</a> that Congress debate this issue, and not rubber stamp it.<br /><br /><a href="http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20121219/11424621442/senator-chambliss-says-theres-no-reason-to-debate-fisa-amendments-act-just-pass-it.shtml">Permalink</a> | <a href="http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20121219/11424621442/senator-chambliss-says-theres-no-reason-to-debate-fisa-amendments-act-just-pass-it.shtml#comments">Comments</a> | <a href="http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20121219/11424621442/senator-chambliss-says-theres-no-reason-to-debate-fisa-amendments-act-just-pass-it.shtml?op=sharethis">Email This Story</a><br />
 ]]></description>
<slash:department>unconstitutional</slash:department>
<wfw:commentRss>http://www.techdirt.com/comment_rss.php?sid=20121219/11424621442</wfw:commentRss>
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<pubDate>Fri, 14 Dec 2012 15:03:00 PST</pubDate>
<title>Demand That Congress Actually Debate FISA Amendments Act</title>
<dc:creator>Mike Masnick</dc:creator>
<link>http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20121214/13494921388/demand-that-congress-actually-debate-fisa-amendments-act.shtml</link>
<guid>http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20121214/13494921388/demand-that-congress-actually-debate-fisa-amendments-act.shtml</guid>
<description><![CDATA[ We've pointed out that the <a href="http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20121213/23443021384/fisa-amendments-act-is-clearly-unconstitutional-congress-doesnt-care.shtml">unconstitutional</a> FISA Amendments Act (along with its <a href="http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120913/23182420380/house-approves-bill-to-spy-americans-misrepresenting-lying-about-whats-bill.shtml">secret interpretation</a>), look likely to <a href="http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20121213/07555621374/negotiations-continue-over-extension-feds-ability-to-spy-americans-no-debate-issues.shtml">get renewed</a> before the end of the year.  Senator Wyden is willing to drop his hold, but if he doesn't get certain amendments in, he wants to limit the length of the extension to a short period for the sake of having a debate.  Of course, that's the same thing that happened almost exactly <a href="http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20111219/00494117120/senate-approves-intelligence-bill-extension-secret-law-allowing-spying-americans-cut-back.shtml">one year ago</a>.
<br /><br />
Techdirt has joined a number of organizations, including EFF, Free Press, the ACLU, the American Library Association and many, many more in <a href="http://www.freepress.net/resource/101311/demand-debate-fisa-amendments-act" target="_blank">asking the Senate to actually debate</a> the issue.  The folks at EFF have <a href="https://action.eff.org/o/9042/p/dia/action/public/?action_KEY=8982" target="_blank">set up a tool</a> to help anyone reach out to their own Senators on the subject as well.
<blockquote><i>
We write to share our concern about the reauthorization of the FISA Amendments Act and the dwindling time remaining to have a meaningful debate and amendment process before your target adjournment at the end of next week. We ask that you contact your party leadership and let them know that you expect ample time for floor debate, privacy and transparency amendments, and possible conference with the House on ultimate legislation.
<br /><br />
The FISA Amendments Act is a sweeping authority that allows the government to collect international communications without a warrant, even if an American in the US is on one end. After four and a half years, there is no information publicly available describing how many Americans are caught up in this surveillance program or what is done with the information once collected. There also hasn&#8217;t been a single minute of Senate floor time scheduled for debating the merits of this program or to considering amendments that would increase transparency of this program and insert basic privacy protections for our sensitive information in preparation for this reauthorization.
</i></blockquote>
Is it really that ridiculous to think that the open debate we've been promised for years should be had before we reauthorize these tools?  Is it really ridiculous to think that the NSA and other intelligence officials should be required to publicly reveal such basic things as <i>how many</i> Americans have had records swept up by intelligence agencies under these loose rules?<br /><br /><a href="http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20121214/13494921388/demand-that-congress-actually-debate-fisa-amendments-act.shtml">Permalink</a> | <a href="http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20121214/13494921388/demand-that-congress-actually-debate-fisa-amendments-act.shtml#comments">Comments</a> | <a href="http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20121214/13494921388/demand-that-congress-actually-debate-fisa-amendments-act.shtml?op=sharethis">Email This Story</a><br />
 ]]></description>
<slash:department>about-time</slash:department>
<wfw:commentRss>http://www.techdirt.com/comment_rss.php?sid=20121214/13494921388</wfw:commentRss>
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<pubDate>Thu, 13 Dec 2012 15:33:33 PST</pubDate>
<title>Negotiations Continue Over Extension Of Feds Ability To Spy On Americans; But No Debate On The Issues</title>
<dc:creator>Mike Masnick</dc:creator>
<link>http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20121213/07555621374/negotiations-continue-over-extension-feds-ability-to-spy-americans-no-debate-issues.shtml</link>
<guid>http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20121213/07555621374/negotiations-continue-over-extension-feds-ability-to-spy-americans-no-debate-issues.shtml</guid>
<description><![CDATA[ With the end of the year approaching, Senator Ron Wyden has admitted that he's <a href="http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/12/fisa-act-reauthorization/?utm_source=feedburner&#038;utm_medium=feed&#038;utm_campaign=Feed%3A wired%2Findex %28Wired%3A Top Stories%29" target="_blank">willing to drop the hold</a> on the renewal for the FISA Amendments Act in exchange for allowing some key amendments to be voted on.  As summarized by David Kravetz at Wired:
<blockquote><i>
Wyden said he would lift his hold in exchange for a Senate floor vote on an amendment requiring the government to account for how many times Americans&#8217; communications have been accepted, and another amendment prohibiting U.S. spy agencies from reviewing the communications of Americans ensnared in the program.
<br /><br />
If that doesn&#8217;t go over, he&#8217;d lift the hold so the Senate could vote on brief extension of the act so his amendments and others could be fully debated next year.
<br /><br />
&#8220;I&#8217;m willing to go along with a short-term extension as long as we have a chance in the early future, in 2013, to have a debate,&#8221; Wyden said.
</i></blockquote>
Of course, we've seen this <a href="http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20111219/00494117120/senate-approves-intelligence-bill-extension-secret-law-allowing-spying-americans-cut-back.shtml">before</a>.  Just last year we had a "short-term extension" on these things for the sake of debate, but the "debate" never came.  Instead, everyone waits until now, when the rules are about to expire, and then demand that it be renewed, sans debate, or else "terrorism!"  The whole process is really kind of unfortunate.  There should have been a debate <i>years ago</i>, before the FISA Amendments Act was rushed into law.  But, unfortunately, actually considering the implications of these laws -- and how they're used and interpreted -- just doesn't seem to be a major issue for Congress.<br /><br /><a href="http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20121213/07555621374/negotiations-continue-over-extension-feds-ability-to-spy-americans-no-debate-issues.shtml">Permalink</a> | <a href="http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20121213/07555621374/negotiations-continue-over-extension-feds-ability-to-spy-americans-no-debate-issues.shtml#comments">Comments</a> | <a href="http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20121213/07555621374/negotiations-continue-over-extension-feds-ability-to-spy-americans-no-debate-issues.shtml?op=sharethis">Email This Story</a><br />
 ]]></description>
<slash:department>of-course-not</slash:department>
<wfw:commentRss>http://www.techdirt.com/comment_rss.php?sid=20121213/07555621374</wfw:commentRss>
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<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jun 2012 09:13:00 PDT</pubDate>
<title>Debate Club: Should Police Need A Warrant To Get Your Location From Your Mobile Phone Provider?</title>
<dc:creator>Mike Masnick</dc:creator>
<link>http://www.techdirt.com/blog/wireless/articles/20120626/01410819478/debate-club-should-police-need-warrant-to-get-your-location-your-mobile-phone-provider.shtml</link>
<guid>http://www.techdirt.com/blog/wireless/articles/20120626/01410819478/debate-club-should-police-need-warrant-to-get-your-location-your-mobile-phone-provider.shtml</guid>
<description><![CDATA[ US News runs some online debates, in which they bring together a bunch of experts to debate a particular topic of interest, allowing readers to vote on which arguments they agree with most.  This week, they're debating if <a href="http://www.usnews.com/debate-club/should-probable-cause-be-required-for-police-to-use-cell-phone-location-data" target="_blank">police should need to prove probable cause in order to get a warrant to get your mobile phone location</a> (and potentially track you).  There's a great <a href="http://www.usnews.com/debate-club/should-probable-cause-be-required-for-police-to-use-cell-phone-location-data/clear-geolocation-guidelines-are-needed-to-protect-privacy-rights" target="_blank">opening argument from Senator Ron Wyden</a>, who worries about the possibility for abuse:
<blockquote><i>
While having access to geolocation data is clearly useful for law enforcement agencies, without the resource limitations that used to discourage the government from tracking you without good reason, the limits on when and how geolocation data can be accessed are unclear. A police department, for example, might not have the resources to follow everyone who lives within a city block for a month, but without clear rules for electronic tracking there is nothing to stop it from requesting every resident's cellphone location history.
<br /><br />
Obviously, we expect people to see us when we step out onto the street each morning, but we don't expect those people to track all of our movements over the course of days, weeks, months, or even years.
</i></blockquote>
Also on his side (in this debate) is Rep. Jason Chaffetz, who makes a <a href="http://www.usnews.com/debate-club/should-probable-cause-be-required-for-police-to-use-cell-phone-location-data/the-gps-act-would-safeguard-the-rights-of-the-innocent" target="_blank">straightforward 4th Amendment argument</a>, the ACLU's Catherine Crump, who not surprisingly <a href="http://www.usnews.com/debate-club/should-probable-cause-be-required-for-police-to-use-cell-phone-location-data/the-gps-act-supports-legitimate-investigations-and-protects-privacy" target="_blank">focuses on the privacy arguments</a> and Jennifer Granick from the Center for Internet and Society talking about how the lack of a warrant requirement <a href="http://www.usnews.com/debate-club/should-probable-cause-be-required-for-police-to-use-cell-phone-location-data/without-regulation-gps-technology-easily-abused-by-authorities" target="_blank">leaves the system wide open to abuse</a> by law enforcement.
<br /><br />
Who can possibly argue against all that?  Well, there's Joseph Cassilly, who had been the president of the National District Attorney's association.  His basic argument is that having easy access to this data <a href="http://www.usnews.com/debate-club/should-probable-cause-be-required-for-police-to-use-cell-phone-location-data/requiring-warrants-for-geolocation-data-will-impede-law-enforcement" target="_blank">makes the job of law enforcement easier</a>:
<blockquote><i>
A recent example of this was in a gang shooting in my jurisdiction wherein an anonymous caller who feared gang retaliation if his identity was known gave the police the identity of two gang members who committed the murder. The police received cell phone information regarding these individuals from prior arrest reports. The cell-site historical information for the time of the killing shows that those two cell phones were hitting off the same tower at the same time in the area of the murder.
</i></blockquote>
Nice story, but there is nothing in the Constitution that says we need to make law enforcement's job easier.  In fact, it's the opposite.  The reason we have a 4th Amendment is to make law enforcement's job <i>more difficult</i>.  But that's a choice we make as a free society, recognizing that protecting our civil liberties and freedoms is an important barrier to inevitable law enforcement abuse.
<br /><br />
Also in favor of easier spying on people is Rep. Trey Gowdy, who seems to argue that using your GPS data to track you is no different than other "advancements" like "DNA analysis, fingerprint analysis, voice exemplars, blood spatter, or court-approved wiretapping."  Gowdy is a bit more middle-ground here, suggesting the importance of privacy, but saying he thinks that location data should require a "lower standard" for a warrant than probable cause.  Of course, the problem there is that the whole "probable cause" bit comes to us from The Constitution.  So, changing that is difficult.
<br /><br />
Either way, you can check out the full arguments and vote for which ones you find most compelling...<br /><br /><a href="http://www.techdirt.com/blog/wireless/articles/20120626/01410819478/debate-club-should-police-need-warrant-to-get-your-location-your-mobile-phone-provider.shtml">Permalink</a> | <a href="http://www.techdirt.com/blog/wireless/articles/20120626/01410819478/debate-club-should-police-need-warrant-to-get-your-location-your-mobile-phone-provider.shtml#comments">Comments</a> | <a href="http://www.techdirt.com/blog/wireless/articles/20120626/01410819478/debate-club-should-police-need-warrant-to-get-your-location-your-mobile-phone-provider.shtml?op=sharethis">Email This Story</a><br />
 ]]></description>
<slash:department>debate-it-up</slash:department>
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<pubDate>Mon, 23 Apr 2012 08:08:00 PDT</pubDate>
<title>The Band's Ex-Manager Accuses Reddit Of Profiting From Piracy In Debate With Co-Founder</title>
<dc:creator>Mike Masnick</dc:creator>
<link>http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120423/01452218599/bands-ex-manager-accuses-reddit-profiting-piracy-debate-with-co-founder.shtml</link>
<guid>http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120423/01452218599/bands-ex-manager-accuses-reddit-profiting-piracy-debate-with-co-founder.shtml</guid>
<description><![CDATA[ Here's an interesting one.  Fast Company had professor Jonathan Taplin, director of the USC Annenberg Innovation Lab and the former tour manager for The Band <a href="http://www.fastcompany.com/1834779/reddit-sopa-antipiracy-the-band-levon-helm-epic-debate" target="_blank">debate Alexis Ohanian, cofounder of Reddit, <strike>Hipmunk</strike>* and Breadpig</a>.  The debate is definitely worth watching, but I'm disappointed with many of Taplin's claims.  He starts out by going for the emotional, talking about how The Band -- whose drummer Levon Helm passed away the day after the debate -- had members who were no longer making $150,000 to $200,000 per year, as they had been able to do up until about 2002.  As Alexis notes in response, there are all sorts of useful business models to help them make money -- and he's even <a href="http://alexisohanian.com/open-letter-to-professor-taplin" target="_blank">offered to help them make money</a>.  And, indeed, the story of Helm is quite tragic, but at the same time, most people when they are no longer working tend not to make as much money as they did in the past.  Copyright was never supposed to be a pension for retired musicians, so it seems odd to argue that it isn't doing that.  That was never the intention.
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<br />
Frankly, what bugs me most about Taplin's argument is that he continually takes things totally out of context.  For example, he cites the familiar numbers about the "music industry" going from $20 billion to $6 billion.  Yet he ignores that the <a href="http://www.techdirt.com/skyisrising/">overall music industry grew</a> because other parts of the industry grew at a much faster rate.  More ridiculous?  He claims (totally incorrectly) that Chris Anderson believes that "everything should be free."  Either he didn't read Chris Anderson's book, or he's purposely distorting the book, which focuses nearly all of its attention on how to <i>get paid</i> for content.  In fact, most of the book is about ways in which a "freemium" model works -- where you have some stuff free, and other things paid.  Why Taplin would then claim the book is that "everything should be free" is beyond me.  To have a university professor so misrepresent Chris's book is ridiculous.  He owes a major apology to Anderson.
<br /><br />
Bizarrely, Taplin then claims that Reddit makes money off of piracy.  Say what?!  At this point I think he's just making things up.
<br /><br />
He also completely misrepresents Google having to <a href="http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20110824/14531015667/justice-department-to-protect-pharma-profits-well-just-take-money-google.shtml">give the government</a> $500 million concerning advertisements from unlicensed online pharmacies.  Taplin calls them "phony drug ads," which is also inaccurate.  In many cases the drugs were legit -- but the licensing of the pharmacies to deliver those drugs to the US was in question (some, in fact, appear to have been perfectly legit Canadian pharmacies).  He then claims that if Google made $500 million on fake drugs ads they must be making more on "illegal pirate ads."  I'm curious: who exactly is buying "illegal pirate ads"?
<br /><br />
From there, he tosses in the whole <a href="http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120405/02403418381/nytimes-columnist-stirs-up-controversy-that-will-only-drive-human-trafficking-further-underground.shtml">controversy</a> over Backpage.com -- which has nothing to do with copyright, and he falsely smears them as providing a service for pimping "young ladies" -- leaving out the fact that (a) a court has already <a href="http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20110819/02211215597/as-expected-backpage-is-not-liable-prostitution-ads.shtml">cleared</a> the company and (b) this has nothing to do with copyright.
<br /><br />
Taplin seems to be throwing together a bouillabaisse of arguments without understanding any of them, and thus misrepresenting nearly everything.
<br /><br />
Alexis does a great job with his intro, first pointing out how movie box office revenue has increased, and then pointing out how innovation is the key here, and that industries can innovate their way forward, and points to <a href="http://www.techdirt.com/blog/innovation/articles/20120416/10585918505/kickstarter-keeps-funding-bigger-bigger-projects.shtml">Kickstarter's success</a> as an example of how that's already beginning.  Taplin, playing the old curmudgeon, insists this is all crazy.  He mocks the movie stat because it ignores the collapse of DVDs.  Of course if folks like Taplin had their way, there would be no home video market, because they tried to make it illegal back in the 1970s and 1980s (an inconvenient fact he seems to have forgotten).  He also mocks Kickstarter because it won't fund Martin Scorcese's latest film.  This is typical of someone who doesn't seem to understand the <a href="http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20091116/2307256958.shtml">the innovator's dilemma</a>.  It's kind of shocking, frankly, that someone in charge of a so-called innovation lab doesn't understand how innovation works.
<br /><br />
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<br />
In the second part of the debate, Taplin goes full on elitist, mocking those people who use Kickstarter to fund a piddly $50,000 movie, because apparently, to him, those movies don't count.  And yes, earlier in the debate, he was talking about how he was really concerned about the up and comers.  He also seems to think that the only movies that matter are the movies that score big distribution deals.  He's internally inconsistent and doesn't even seem to realize it.  He goes on to mock the idea that musicians can make money other than through record sales.  Except, he assumes (incorrectly) that the only way to make money is concert sales, and then says that some acts just can't get enough people to see them live.  Um, duh.  But that's <i>always been true</i>.  Most musicians never sold enough music to make a living either, but we don't pass a law to change that.  Taplin seems to be complaining that not all musicians or movie makers are rich.  I didn't realize that was an issue.
<br /><br />
Taplin then comes up with his "solution."  It's to have every ISP charge users $2 to $3/month which would go into a giant global pool that would be distributed to copyright holders.  Immediately, someone in the comments points out that doesn't fix bad contracts.  It's even worse than that.  First, the entertainment industry would insist that $2 to $3 is way too low.  Hell, most music services alone get $10 or so per month.  And really what Taplin is doing is to create a giant bureaucracy that won't effectively help small artists.  He talks about ASCAP as the model for this.  I wonder what he has to say about the fact that ASCAP takes money from up-and-coming artists and <a href="http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120323/18055718229/how-ascap-takes-money-successful-indie-artists-gives-it-to-giant-rock-stars.shtml">gives it</a> to the largest acts.
<br /><br />
Both videos are worth watching.  The whole thing is only about 25 minutes, and I think Alexis more than holds his own, though it would have been nice if there was a little more time to hit back on many of Taplin's claims.
<br /><br />
<i>* Corrected after learning that Alexis didn't found Hipmunk -- just joined pre-launch.</i><br /><br /><a href="http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120423/01452218599/bands-ex-manager-accuses-reddit-profiting-piracy-debate-with-co-founder.shtml">Permalink</a> | <a href="http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120423/01452218599/bands-ex-manager-accuses-reddit-profiting-piracy-debate-with-co-founder.shtml#comments">Comments</a> | <a href="http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120423/01452218599/bands-ex-manager-accuses-reddit-profiting-piracy-debate-with-co-founder.shtml?op=sharethis">Email This Story</a><br />
 ]]></description>
<slash:department>um,-ok</slash:department>
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<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jan 2012 20:00:26 PST</pubDate>
<title>Crowd Cheers Loudly As All Four GOP Candidates Say No To SOPA/PIPA</title>
<dc:creator>Mike Masnick</dc:creator>
<link>http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120119/19455917483/crowd-cheers-loudly-as-all-four-gop-candidates-say-no-to-sopapipa.shtml</link>
<guid>http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120119/19455917483/crowd-cheers-loudly-as-all-four-gop-candidates-say-no-to-sopapipa.shtml</guid>
<description><![CDATA[ It really was just a few weeks ago that a Hollywood lobbyist laughed at me (literally) when I suggested that SOPA/PIPA might become a national issue during the Presidential campaign.  As he noted, copyright issues just aren't interesting outside of a small group of people.  My, how things have changed.  After this week's protests made front pages and top stories everywhere, it's not all that surprising that the candidates at the latest GOP debate were asked their opinion of the bills... <a href="http://www.mediaite.com/tv/gop-candidates-roundly-condemn-sopa-during-debate/" target="_blank">and all four came out against them</a>.  Of course, this seems to fit with the new GOP positioning that <a href="http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120119/14311717474/senate-minority-leader-mcconnell-tells-reidleahy-to-kill-pipa.shtml">they're the anti-SOPA/PIPA party</a> (so sorry Lamar Smith...).  Mediaite has the video:
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And here's a transcript of what each candidate said:
<blockquote><i>
<b>Gingrich:</b> "You are asking a conservative about the economic interests of Hollywood?  I am weighing it and thinking fondly of the many left wing people that I am so eager to protect.  On the other hand, you have so many people that are technologically advanced such as Google and You Tube and Facebook that say this is totally going to mess up the Internet.  The bill in its current form is written really badly and leads to a range of censorship that is totally unacceptable.  I believe in freedom and think that we have a patent office, copyright law and if a company believes it has generally been infringed upon it has the right to sue.  But the idea that we have the government start preemptively start censoring the Internet and corporations' economic interest is exactly the wrong thing to do."
<br /><br />
<b>Romney:</b> "The law as written is far too expansive, far too intrusive and far too threatening of freedom of speech and information carried across the Internet.  It would have a depressing impact on one of the fastest growing industries in America.  I care deeply about intellectual content going across the Internet and if we can find a way to very narrowly go after those people who are pirating especially those offshore.  But a very broad law that gives the government the power to start saying who can pass what to whom,  I say no and I am standing for freedom." 
<br /><br />
<b>Paul:</b> "I am one of the first Republicans to oppose this law and so glad that sentiment has mellowed up here as Republicans have been on the wrong side of this issue and this is a good example on why its good to have someone who can look at civil liberties ... freedom and the constitution bring people together."
<br /><br />
<b>Santorum:</b> "I do not support this law and believe it goes too far. But I will not agree with everyone that there isn't something that should be done to protect the intellectual content of people.  The internet is not a free zone where anyone can do anything they want to do and trample the rights of other people.  Particularly when we are talking about entities off shore.  The idea that the government has no role to protect the intellectual property of this company, that's not right.  The idea that anything goes on the Internet?  Who has that idea.  Property rights should be respected."
</i></blockquote>
Santorum's answer is the weakest, obviously -- and isn't too surprising.  Just recently he made a statement that was <a href="http://www.fireandreamitchell.com/2012/01/18/rick-santorum-defends-sopa-and-says-any-freedom-has-to-be-regulated/" target="_blank">about how online activity should be regulated</a>.
<br /><br />
But, really the most interesting part of what happened was <b>not</b> the candidates answering the question, but the audience's response.  When John King asked the question and gave a brief explanation of SOPA/PIPA... he also mentioned that CNN's parent company, Time Warner, supported the bill... and <b>the crowd booed loudly</b>.  When the candidates -- particularly Gingrich and Paul -- made their claims, <b>the crowd cheered loudly</b>.
<br /><br />
The people who are still brushing off the whole protest as "an internet thing" or (even more ridiculous) "a Google thing," still don't seem to realize.  Pretty much <b>the entire public</b> has turned against these kinds of bills.<br /><br /><a href="http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120119/19455917483/crowd-cheers-loudly-as-all-four-gop-candidates-say-no-to-sopapipa.shtml">Permalink</a> | <a href="http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120119/19455917483/crowd-cheers-loudly-as-all-four-gop-candidates-say-no-to-sopapipa.shtml#comments">Comments</a> | <a href="http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120119/19455917483/crowd-cheers-loudly-as-all-four-gop-candidates-say-no-to-sopapipa.shtml?op=sharethis">Email This Story</a><br />
 ]]></description>
<slash:department>national-issue</slash:department>
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<pubDate>Fri, 2 Sep 2011 10:04:28 PDT</pubDate>
<title>Debate Time: Ubisoft Says DRM Is Needed, Valve Says No It Isn't.</title>
<dc:creator>Zachary Knight</dc:creator>
<link>http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20110829/13174315729/debate-time-ubisoft-says-drm-is-needed-valve-says-no-it-isnt.shtml</link>
<guid>http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20110829/13174315729/debate-time-ubisoft-says-drm-is-needed-valve-says-no-it-isnt.shtml</guid>
<description><![CDATA[ It's not every day you get two diametrically opposed views on DRM from two high profile companies in the video game industry, yet that is what happened recently.
<br /><br />
While both were speaking to different gaming news sites, their conversations have an almost debate-like feel. So I think we will let the two execs duke it out on the debate floor. In one corner we have <a href="http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-09-01-driver-dev-defends-ubi-drm-online-pass" target="_blank">Martin Edmonson of Ubisoft Reflections speaking to Eurogamer</a>. In the other corner, we have <a href="http://kotaku.com/5835328/why-portals-publishers-dont-fear-piracy-competition" target="_blank">Gabe Newell of Valve speaking to Kotaku</a> (thanks to <a href="http://www.techdirt.com/profile.php?u=mattatx">Matt</a> for being the first of many to send this in).
<br /><br />
We will let Martin have the opening statement: <br /> 
<blockquote><i>You have to do something.
<br /><br />
It's just, simply, PC piracy is at the most incredible rates. This game cost a huge amount of money to develop, and it has to be, quite rightly - quite morally correctly - protected.
<br /><br />
If there was very little trouble with piracy then we wouldn't need it.</i></blockquote> 
Gabe shoots back: <br /> <blockquote><i>We're a broken record on this. This belief that you increase your monetization by making your game worth less through aggressive digital rights management is totally backwards . It's a service issue, not a technology issue. Piracy is just not an issue for us.</i></blockquote> 
Martin responds: <br /> <blockquote><i>DRM is not a decision taken by us as a developer at all. It's a purely a publisher decision. The publisher has every right to protect their investment.
<br /><br />
It's difficult to get away from the fact that as a developer, as somebody who puts their blood, sweat and tears into this thing... And from the publisher's point of view, which invests tens and tens and tens of millions into a product - by the time you've got marketing, a hundred million - that piracy on the PC is utterly unbelievable.</i></blockquote> 
Gabe shares a story of how Valve protected their investment, in Russia no less: <br /> <blockquote><i>When we entered Russia everyone said, 'You can't make money in there. Everyone pirates.'
<br /><br />
When people decide where to buy their games they look and they say, 'Jesus, the pirates provide a better service for us.'
<br /><br />
The best way to fight piracy is to create a service that people need. I think (publishers with strict DRM) will sell less of their products and create more problems.</i></blockquote>
 Ok, so it wasn't a long debate, but I think the point is clear. Ubisoft and many other developers and publishers are under the impression that those who pirate games are doing so just to get free games. Yet, Valve has <a href="http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20090219/1124433835.shtml">learned</a> that piracy is a symptom of a greater problem: <a href="http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20090118/1653083452.shtml">unmet customer needs</a>.  It learned that Russians pirated games to get a better quality localization than what the publishers provided. It didn't respond by upping the DRM. It responded by providing high quality localization.
<br /><br />
So rather than fight your fans and treat them like criminals, why not embrace them and provide them with the product they want?  It's amazing that anyone needs a debate to figure <i>that</i> out.<br /><br /><a href="http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20110829/13174315729/debate-time-ubisoft-says-drm-is-needed-valve-says-no-it-isnt.shtml">Permalink</a> | <a href="http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20110829/13174315729/debate-time-ubisoft-says-drm-is-needed-valve-says-no-it-isnt.shtml#comments">Comments</a> | <a href="http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20110829/13174315729/debate-time-ubisoft-says-drm-is-needed-valve-says-no-it-isnt.shtml?op=sharethis">Email This Story</a><br />
 ]]></description>
<slash:department>don't-hate-your-fans</slash:department>
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<pubDate>Thu, 25 Aug 2011 05:02:17 PDT</pubDate>
<title>Debate On Software Patents Fails To Convince Silicon Valley That Patents Increase Innovation</title>
<dc:creator>Mike Masnick</dc:creator>
<link>http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20110825/00555815673/debate-software-patents-fails-to-convince-silicon-valley-that-patents-increase-innovation.shtml</link>
<guid>http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20110825/00555815673/debate-software-patents-fails-to-convince-silicon-valley-that-patents-increase-innovation.shtml</guid>
<description><![CDATA[ Yesterday, I went to the Computer History Museum in Silicon Valley for a lunchtime <a href="http://www.computerhistory.org/events/#software-patent-debate" target="_blank">debate on software patents</a>.  It was one of those things where an official "motion" was put forth, and then people voted before and after to see if the debate changed anyone's mind.  In this case, the motion was simple: "software patents encourage innovation."  Arguing for the motion was Bob Zeidman, a consultant/writer who sells software for... analyzing intellectual property.  Arguing against the motion was Edward Lee, a Berkeley CS professor.  The audience, as is (unfortunately) typical at the Computer History Museum definitely skewed "older."  I ended up at a table with some guys who worked at IBM many decades ago.  There were also a fair number of patent lawyers in attendance.
<br /><br />
There's this view outside of Silicon Valley that folks here love patents, but in my experience, most people don't seem to like patents at all.  They get in the way of actually innovating -- as we've shown time and time again -- and the thing that Silicon Valley folks like more than just about anything else is <i>building something cool</i>.  The idea that someone else can sue you for building something cool just seems incomprehensible.
<br /><br />
Before the debate, the vote was already against the motion: 64 people voted for the motion (35.7%).  89 people voted against (49.7%).  Another 26 didn't vote at all.
<br /><br />
The debate itself struck me as rather tame.  Niether side really made as strong an argument as they could.  Obviously, given what I write about here, and the rather staggering evidence that's out there that the patent system tends to do a lot more harm than good, I was inclined to support Lee "against the motion."  But even there, it felt like he could have made much stronger arguments.  For the most part, he just repeated claims from James Bessen and Michael Meurer's book <i>Patent Failure</i>.  It's an excellent book and completely worth reading, in large part because it cites dozens of studies to show how the costs of the patent system greatly outweigh its benefits.  It's definitely a good starting point, but there's a lot more out there that let's you take their argument further, and I was a bit disappointed that Lee didn't do so (though the debate format is a tough one).  For example, Lee repeated a few key claims from <i>Patent Failure</i>, such as the idea that patents don't work well as property, because the reason "property" works is because there are clear boundaries.  But, with patents, the boundaries are (often intentionally) unclear, meaning more and more litigation.  Good property rules should mean less litigation.
<br /><br />
But all that presumes that property rights <i>make sense</i> around ideas.  And there's a strong argument that they don't.  I also would have liked at least some more discussion about the fact that so many patent lawsuits involve work that was independently invented.  Lee mentioned it in passing, but it's a key point in this debate, and it wasn't highlighted nearly enough.
<br /><br />
Lee did get in a few good one-liners, though, which the crowd appreciated.  He noted that in Silicon Valley today, if you actually do something well, you're guaranteed to get sued for patent infringement.  Separately, he argued that patents tend to encourage more patents, rather than innovation.  The one point he "conceded" was that patents did seem to encourage "innovation" in one area: Zeidman's arena of writing software to analyze patents.
<br /><br />
The one point he made that struck me as compelling and not discussed nearly enough was his response to the common claim that patents are all about "disclosure," and without patents everything would be kept as a trade secret.  There are a bunch of good responses to this that we've discussed in the past, but he noted (1) that patents don't seem to disclose much that is useful to a software developer and (2) that the real <i>purpose</i> of "disclosure" is education, and there are better ways to educate software developers.  I hadn't made that connection between disclosure and education before, and it's a good point.
<br /><br />
As for Zeidman, not surprisingly, I found his arguments completely uncompelling.  He kicked off with an attempt to play to the ego of the crowd, asking them how many had programmed stuff, and how many of those people felt that "just anyone could do that."  He was a little surprised that some people said, yes, just about anyone could program what they programmed, and accused the audience of being too modest.  But, really, this argument is a total non-starter.  He used it to claim that creating software is a "creative skill."  That's true, but it's meaningless.  The patent system has nothing to do with encouraging creativity.  And, more importantly, the very crux of this particular debate for many people is that <i>software is already covered by copyright</i>.  And the whole "creative" part is the part that copyright covers.  So what does that have to do with patents?  I submitted that as a question, but the moderator didn't ask it.  The whole argument made no sense in the framework of what was actually being debated.
<br /><br />
The other thing that caught my attention was that Zeidman tried to brush off the argument of patent trolls suing the companies who actually innovate, by suggesting it's not really a big problem.  He specifically stated that "less than 2%" of patent lawsuits involve patent trolls.  That number struck me as ridiculously low, so I first asked folks on Twitter if that could be possible, and received back a few responses, including from Mark Lemley, who said the real number is <a href="http://twitter.com/#!/marklemley/status/106476002485612544" target="_blank">between 25 and 40% depending on how you count</a>.  Separately, a few folks pointed me to a <a href="http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1396319" target="_blank">research paper by Colleen Chien</a>, which suggests the number has been growing recently, and agrees with Lemley's basic range.  For example, from 2006 to 2008, defendants sued by trolls represented 36% of all defendants sued.
<br /><br />
After the event I went over to ask Zeidman about the 2% number, and he claimed that he actually thinks that estimate is <i>too high</i>.  He mentioned that he cited the source in the Wall Street Journal, but the <a href="http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704132204576285424145121548.html" target="_blank">only citation I can find</a> that seems to match is a claim that "roughly 2%" of patents end up in court.  Perhaps he means that he used the 2% number from the Wall Street Journal somewhere else, but the fact that only 2% of patents end up in court (which seems ridiculously high, actually) has nothing to do with how frequently trolls are suing companies.
<br /><br />
Anyway, after an hour-long debate, another vote was taken, and since a bunch of folks showed up in the middle, the numbers were higher across the board: 70 people were for the motion that software patents are good for innovation, 112 were against and 42 didn't vote.  On a percentage basis, those supporting software patents dropped to 31.3% and those against rose marginally to 50%.  Given the fact that there were a fair number of patent lawyers in attendance (one sitting at my table mocked the whole debate because no one defined software patents, and then argued that Professor Lee was probably a hypocrite, because while he contributed to open source software, he probably wanted to get paid for his book), and they seemed to be the most vocal in supporting software patents, it seems likely that of the actual developers in the audience, well more than 50% were against patents for software.<br /><br /><a href="http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20110825/00555815673/debate-software-patents-fails-to-convince-silicon-valley-that-patents-increase-innovation.shtml">Permalink</a> | <a href="http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20110825/00555815673/debate-software-patents-fails-to-convince-silicon-valley-that-patents-increase-innovation.shtml#comments">Comments</a> | <a href="http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20110825/00555815673/debate-software-patents-fails-to-convince-silicon-valley-that-patents-increase-innovation.shtml?op=sharethis">Email This Story</a><br />
 ]]></description>
<slash:department>not-a-surprise</slash:department>
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<item>
<pubDate>Fri, 12 Aug 2011 17:34:05 PDT</pubDate>
<title>Fox News Tells AP Not To Use Clips From GOP Debate; AP Apparently Unfamiliar With Fair Use</title>
<dc:creator>Mike Masnick</dc:creator>
<link>http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20110812/11242515492/fox-news-tells-ap-not-to-use-clips-gop-debate-ap-apparently-unfamiliar-with-fair-use.shtml</link>
<guid>http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20110812/11242515492/fox-news-tells-ap-not-to-use-clips-gop-debate-ap-apparently-unfamiliar-with-fair-use.shtml</guid>
<description><![CDATA[ The Associated Press has a history that suggests it <a href="http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20080613/0117561394.shtml">doesn't like fair use</a>, even though its reporters and staff rely on it constantly.  Yet, perhaps the AP is finally putting its money where its mouth is and will no longer rely on fair use at all.  As Tim Lee <a href="https://twitter.com/#!/binarybits/statuses/102061442588618755" target="_blank">points out</a>, in this video clip the AP put together of the GOP presidential candidates' debate, there is no footage of the actual debate shown, and the AP says (at about 28 seconds) that "Fox News Channel did not allow AP to select excerpts of the debate for use in this online video story."
<center>
<iframe width="560" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/SElC-0djESM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
</center>
But, of course, short clips from debates are always used by competing news channels and they know that it's protected by fair use.  There's so much that's bizarre about that single line in the story when you think about it.  Why would AP ask permission in the first place?  The whole point of fair use is that you don't need permission.  Why would Fox deny the permission?  Fox relies on fair use just as much as others do, and "denying" another news provider seems likely to come back and haunt them.  Why didn't the AP use the video clips anyway and stand up for their basic fair use rights?<br /><br /><a href="http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20110812/11242515492/fox-news-tells-ap-not-to-use-clips-gop-debate-ap-apparently-unfamiliar-with-fair-use.shtml">Permalink</a> | <a href="http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20110812/11242515492/fox-news-tells-ap-not-to-use-clips-gop-debate-ap-apparently-unfamiliar-with-fair-use.shtml#comments">Comments</a> | <a href="http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20110812/11242515492/fox-news-tells-ap-not-to-use-clips-gop-debate-ap-apparently-unfamiliar-with-fair-use.shtml?op=sharethis">Email This Story</a><br />
 ]]></description>
<slash:department>no-surprise</slash:department>
<wfw:commentRss>http://www.techdirt.com/comment_rss.php?sid=20110812/11242515492</wfw:commentRss>
</item>
<item>
<pubDate>Mon, 28 Feb 2011 14:53:46 PST</pubDate>
<title>Senator Wyden Demands Debate Over Patriot Act</title>
<dc:creator>Mike Masnick</dc:creator>
<link>http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20110225/15280713264/senator-wyden-demands-debate-over-patriot-act.shtml</link>
<guid>http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20110225/15280713264/senator-wyden-demands-debate-over-patriot-act.shtml</guid>
<description><![CDATA[ It's feeling like we should have a weekly section for "kudos to Senator Ron Wyden."  Each week he seems to be the only major elected public official who seems to actually be fighting for the people, rather than for greater power for corporations and government.  His latest is that he seems to be one of the few elected officials who are <a href="http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/02/23/senator-vows-to-reform-patriot-act/" target="_blank">actually pushing for real debate about the "sunsetted" Patriot Act provisions</a>.  As you may recall, Congress has been rubber stamping extensions to the three provisions, which allow for very broad surveillance with very little oversight.  Each time they extend the provisions, they claim there hasn't been enough time to debate the provisions, so we should just push it out again.  But then no debate actually happens.  It looks like Senator Wyden is looking to fix that:
<blockquote><i>
[The Patriot Act] was written and passed six weeks after the worst terrorist attack in our nation's history. Congress wisely included sunset dates for the Patriot Act's most controversial provisions, so that they could be thoughtfully considered at a later time. After ten years, it is clearly time for that debate." 
</i></blockquote>
I'd argue it's well past the time for that debate, but that's a minor quibble.  Wyden is also pushing for legislation that narrows the surveillance provisions of the Patriot Act and further protects our Fourth Amendment rights.<br /><br /><a href="http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20110225/15280713264/senator-wyden-demands-debate-over-patriot-act.shtml">Permalink</a> | <a href="http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20110225/15280713264/senator-wyden-demands-debate-over-patriot-act.shtml#comments">Comments</a> | <a href="http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20110225/15280713264/senator-wyden-demands-debate-over-patriot-act.shtml?op=sharethis">Email This Story</a><br />
 ]]></description>
<slash:department>senator-wyden-hits-again</slash:department>
<wfw:commentRss>http://www.techdirt.com/comment_rss.php?sid=20110225/15280713264</wfw:commentRss>
</item>
<item>
<pubDate>Fri, 25 Feb 2011 12:47:32 PST</pubDate>
<title>The Debate Over Copyright Gets Loud At Digital Music Forum</title>
<dc:creator>Mike Masnick</dc:creator>
<link>http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20110225/00060613253/debate-over-copyright-gets-loud-digital-music-forum.shtml</link>
<guid>http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20110225/00060613253/debate-over-copyright-gets-loud-digital-music-forum.shtml</guid>
<description><![CDATA[ I attended that excellent <a href="http://www.digitalmusicforum.com/east/agenda11.shtml" target="_blank">Digital Music Forum: East</a> conference yesterday in Manhattan, where I appeared on stage to interview Gary Shapiro, the head of the Consumer Electronics Association and the author of the (really excellent) new book <a href="http://www.beaufortbooks.com/2010/11/the-comeback-how-innovation-will-restore-the-american-dream/" target="_blank"><i>The Comeback</a></i>.  It's really worth reading, and   I think a ton of Techdirt readers would enjoy it, as it hits on a <i>ton</i> of points we regularly discuss, concerning innovation, policy and intellectual property.  That discussion was fun, and Gary made some great points about trying to look towards the future, and avoiding mistakes like the recording industry suing its own customers.
<br><br>
However, the panel that was the most fascinating was later in the day with a panel called "Lawyers, Guns & Money," discussing questions around music file sharing and what should be done about it.  The lineup of panelists included Rich Bengloff (who later told me that I should have the word "editor" stripped from my badge because it gave me too much credibility -- nice guy, that Rich) from A2IM (who represents independent music labels), Michael Petricone from the Consumer Electronics Association, Julie Samuels from the EFF, Mark Eisenberg who has worked at the major labels and is now a consultant, and Bryan Calhoun from SoundExchange.  The whole thing was moderated by Jonathan Potter who certainly knows how to make a panel get... lively.
<br><br>
Not surprisingly, there was a fair amount of disagreement on some of the issues, with Bengloff doing the usual song and dance about "piracy" destroying the music industry.  Julie Samuels, correctly, pointed out that Bengloff was being misleading, and it was the <i>recording industry</i> that was having trouble adapting, not the music industry.  Bengloff insisted this wasn't true, and insisted (contrary to <i>every single study we've seen</i>) that every other aspect of the music business was in massive decline.  Petricone then responded by bringing things around to a key point: copyright law was designed for one purpose and one purpose only: to act as an incentive to create content.  And, if you look at the market today, you'd have to be delusional to say that the market is having any problem in that area whatsoever.  More music is being created today than ever before.  More people are spending more money on music and music related goods than ever before.  There's a massive variety of music available today.  Basically, the content space is absolutely <i>thriving</i>.  So, arguing that there's a problem in the market seems misguided.
<br><br>
And this is the point where the panel went off the rails a bit.  Suddenly, Bengloff decided it was time to directly attack Petricone (with a brief jab thrown at me for some reason).  He pulled out some paper, showing that he came prepared specifically to try to do a character assassination on Petricone.  What was the piece of paper?  Apparently a petition to try to get an independent musician to become the new head of SoundExchange -- with Petricone's signature supporting the petition.  Whether or not this particular musician was qualified to be the head of SoundExchange may be a fair question, but Bengloff effectively said that the very act of supporting an actual musician to be head of SoundExchange showed that he didn't care about musicians and he was just trying to help consumer electronics providers.  If someone can explain the logic here, it went over my head.   The suggestion that Petricone doesn't actually care about music or musicians was quickly debunked by other panelists, who point out that he's a massive supporter of musicians, and the whole attempt to paint Petricone as some anti-musician person just made A2IM and Bengloff look petty and focused on character attacks rather than the key issues at hand.
<br><br>
This resulted in a bit of a meltdown on the panel with people starting to scream back and forth at each other over various issues, and it took a bit of time to get the panel back under control, at which point it went back down the same old road, with one group claiming "woe is me, the industry is dying," while others pointed out that's simply not true and there are ways to adapt and change and succeed.  Petricone pointed out -- as we were <a href="http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20110224/07302613243/stop-thinking-that-tech-content-are-fighting-each-other.shtml">just discussing</a> that it's silly to present the tech companies as being somehow "evil" in all of this, as their interests are very much <i>aligned</i> with the content creators' interests.  This is the same frustration point we've reached before.
<br><br>
As the panel wound down Eisenberg tried to make a point about where the industry needed to go, saying "we all know that everybody <i>needs</i> to get paid, and the real question is how do we best bring that about."  I have a problem with this statement, because no one <i>needs</i> to get paid.  In a capitalist free market economy, the whole point is that it's your own responsibility to figure out how to get paid, and if the market shifts, you need to learn to shift with it or perish.  That's the nature of innovation and creative destruction.  When the automobile came along, no one said "but the horse buggy creators need to get paid!."  The horse buggy creators figured out how to adapt, or they went out of business.  The fact that we have so many people creating music today, and the various research shows musicians making more money than ever before in the past certainly suggests that musicians are adapting.  As for the record labels?  Well, some are adapting, but it still appears that many are not.
<br><br>
Finally, Julie Samuels pointed out that it took nearly 50 minutes into the panel before anyone mentioned <i>the fans</i> of music, and how to actually respond to what they want.  This is another key observation that sort of highlighted the problem.  The fans are the people that the industry needs to be paying attention to, listening to and engaging.  Instead, they declared war on them.  When that backfired, the industry declared war on the tech innovators -- the companies who were creating the infrastructure and tools to lead them through this.  It's as if the recording industry can't help but to attack those it needs the most.
<br><br>
Either way, it was an entertaining panel to watch, if only for the screaming match in the middle.  Still, I am hopeful that someday soon, we can have discussions on how to move forward and embrace opportunities, rather than fighting over how do we go back to a past that isn't coming back.<br /><br /><a href="http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20110225/00060613253/debate-over-copyright-gets-loud-digital-music-forum.shtml">Permalink</a> | <a href="http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20110225/00060613253/debate-over-copyright-gets-loud-digital-music-forum.shtml#comments">Comments</a> | <a href="http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20110225/00060613253/debate-over-copyright-gets-loud-digital-music-forum.shtml?op=sharethis">Email This Story</a><br />
 ]]></description>
<slash:department>hide-ya-kids</slash:department>
<wfw:commentRss>http://www.techdirt.com/comment_rss.php?sid=20110225/00060613253</wfw:commentRss>
</item>
<item>
<pubDate>Tue, 13 Jul 2010 17:17:06 PDT</pubDate>
<title>Larry Lessig Challenges ASCAP Boss To A Debate Over Whether Or Not Creative Commons Undermines Copyright</title>
<dc:creator>Mike Masnick</dc:creator>
<link>http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20100713/15350410197.shtml</link>
<guid>http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20100713/15350410197.shtml</guid>
<description><![CDATA[ We've already written a couple of times about ASCAP's bizarre anti-artist decision, as part of its fundraising campaign, to <a href="http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20100630/03261210014.shtml">falsely</a> imply that Creative Commons, EFF and Public Knowledge are seeking to <a href="http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20100630/03261210014.shtml">undermine copyright</a>.  So far, about all this has done is <a href="http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20100627/0142469971.shtml">piss off</a> a bunch of ASCAP members who actually like these groups (especially those who use Creative Commons).  Larry Lessig has now written a response, where he points out that Creative Commons relies on copyright and doesn't seek to force anyone to use it at all.  It just offers artists more choices in how they license their music.  More interesting, however, is that Lessig then <a href="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/lawrence-lessig/ascaps-attack-on-creative_b_641965.html" target="_blank">challenges ASCAP's president, Paul Williams, to a debate on the topic</a>:
<blockquote><i>
So here's my challenge, ASCAP President Paul Williams: Let's address our differences the way decent souls do. In a debate. I'm a big fan of yours, and If you'll grant me the permission, I'd even be willing to sing one of your songs (or not) if you'll accept my challenge of a debate. We could ask the New York Public Library to host the event. I am willing to do whatever I can to accommodate your schedule. 
<br /><br />
Let's meet and address these perceived differences with honesty and good faith. No doubt we have disagreements (for instance, I love rainy days, and Mondays rarely get me down). But on the issues that your organization and mine care about, there should be no difference worthy of an attack.
</i></blockquote>
So, will ASCAP and Williams -- who has been on an <a href="http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20090125/2201473533.shtml">anti-Lessig rampage</a> for a while now -- step up and actually debate?  And if Williams agrees to such a debate, will he finally stop making false claims about these groups?<br /><br /><a href="http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20100713/15350410197.shtml">Permalink</a> | <a href="http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20100713/15350410197.shtml#comments">Comments</a> | <a href="http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20100713/15350410197.shtml?op=sharethis">Email This Story</a><br />
 ]]></description>
<slash:department>throwdown</slash:department>
<wfw:commentRss>http://www.techdirt.com/comment_rss.php?sid=20100713/15350410197</wfw:commentRss>
</item>
<item>
<pubDate>Fri, 30 Apr 2010 06:28:00 PDT</pubDate>
<title>Music Industry Execs Debate Brokep From The Pirate Bay</title>
<dc:creator>Mike Masnick</dc:creator>
<link>http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20100429/1503079244.shtml</link>
<guid>http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20100429/1503079244.shtml</guid>
<description><![CDATA[ Over in the UK, on Thursday evening, there was a music industry panel discussion that involved a massive number of panelists (ten -- which seems a bit too many) covering a wide variety of viewpoints from the music industry.  Mostly they came from the traditional parts of the music industry, but the interesting participant was Peter Sunde Kolmisoppi, aka brokep, from The Pirate Bay (and now Flattr), taking part in the discussion with a group of folks who regularly call him all sorts of unfriendly things.  Stuart Dredge, over at Music Ally, <a href="http://musically.com/blog/2010/04/29/tomorrow-never-knows-liveblog-pirate-bay-versus-the-music-industry/" target="_blank">ran a nice live blog of the conversation</a>, which mostly went down about as you would expect.  Dredge noted that it was mostly an "industry" audience, and he worried that "there’s a bit of a kick-the-Pirate-Bay mood bubbling" in the audience.
<br /><br />
Thankfully, it doesn't look like things got that far.  Mostly it was the typical back and forth.  Industry folks whining that they can't compete with The Pirate Bay... even as they were talking about the variety of ways they were competing with The Pirate Bay.  Basically, what becomes clear is they would prefer competition that they control, rather than competition that consumers drive.  Tragically, innovation doesn't work that way.
<br /><br />
Peter made the point that a lot of people were confusing the music industry with the recording industry, and mocked them a bit for not actually talking about culture or music:
<blockquote><i>
"Most of the things we're talking about today are about the record industry, not about the music industry. Everyone is talking about percentages... nobody is talking about music. It sounds like most people here could be selling diapers instead!"
</i></blockquote>
While technically true, the discussion <i>was</i> about the business of music, so I think it's fair to be discussing some numbers and the business angle.  But there is a larger point to be made here.  With studies showing that more music is being created, the complaints about the "death" of the industry are clearly misplaced.  The real complaints from the industry types are that <i>they</i> aren't able to make money off of it any more -- but that doesn't mean the music industry is in trouble at all.  Instead, it's thriving.  In fact, Peter also made that point:
<blockquote><i>
It's not a right for the record industry to make a profit.... Technology has come that has made most of the record industry less valuable. We need to just move on, it's sort of an evolution... It might not be good for people working in the record industry, but the music industry is better than ever."
</i></blockquote>
The industry folks on the panel still seem to be living in a state of denial at times, talking about how they should milk the 40 and 50 year olds who are still buying CDs, rather than really understanding the changing marketplace.  My favorite laughable quote came from Guy Moot, of EMI Publishing, who said:
<blockquote><i>
"The joy of ownership is a very different thing from the joy of a digital download or stream..."
</i></blockquote>
Sure, it is, but the record labels have worked very, very, very hard to make it clear to people that they <i>don't get to "own" anything</i>.  How many times have been told "you just get a license."  If we really got to own stuff, there wouldn't be so many complaints.
<br /><br />
There were so many people taking part, it's difficult to cover them all.  Will Page (whose <a href="http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20100429/0116199232.shtml">interview</a> we recently posted) made some good points, and Jeremy Silver, from the Featured Artist Coalition (who's also a very interesting guy to chat with about these issues) comes off as being quite sensible in saying that file sharing of unauthorized works is here and not going away -- and the industry should take some of the blame for sitting on the CD cash cow and never innovating.  Rather than complaining about it, it's time to look forward.
<br /><br />
On that note, it seemed like the most reasonable speaker may have been David Stopps, who spoke from the perspective of an artist's manager.  He noted that the it's absolutely possible to "compete with free," talked up the importance of touring to make money and using the music to boost those revenues and also played down the "demise" of the record labels, by noting that "they still have the back catalogue" to milk for a long time <i>and</i> that their job has become a lot <i>easier</i> thanks to technology:
<blockquote><i>
He says A&#038;R is becoming easier for labels, because sites like Hype Machine and We Are Hunted are where A&#038;R guys are looking to see "who's listening to what music". It's less about "taking a punt" than in the old days. "Artists are building up fanbases themselves… and that can be monitored."
</i></blockquote>
He also brings up the band Metric as an example of a band that has "gone all the way" without a record deal, noting that they turned down a variety of major label deals with massive advances to "do it on their own" and that it's working:
<blockquote><i>
"They're doing a fantastic job, they use Topspin to sell their music, and that seems to be very successful for them. We're gonna see more of that..."
</i></blockquote>
Along those lines, he also notes that The Pirate Bay can be a really great way for people to discover new music, and monetize them elsewhere, pointing to Imogen Heap, who discovered tons of people in Indonesia downloading her music in an unauthorized manner... but when she went there, she was able to sell out a 4,500 seat arena, making "a lot of money."
<br /><br />
Finally, he also knocks BPI and others in the industry for still thinking that DRM is a reasonable solution -- pointing out that it's totally anti-consumer:
<blockquote><i>
"The problem is, nobody really asked the consumer," he says, about attempts to put DRM on CDs. "They absolutely hated it. You put the CD into the computer and it wouldn't play... In the future, we've got to bring the consumers into the business model. In fact, they already are part of the business model."
</i></blockquote>
Geoff Taylor, the head of BPI (basically the UK's RIAA) comes off as about what you'd expect.  He trashes The Pirate Bay repeatedly, claims that it's "destroying national cultures" (with no proof, of course) and says that there needs to be "disincentives" to dealing with unauthorized file sharing.
<br /><br />
It's the same story as usual: they're so focused on negative incentives for people doing stuff they don't like, they never seem to care about creating positive incentives for those they should be targeting.  That's BPI's problem.  Not The Pirate Bay.
<br /><br />
Anyway... given the participants, it was about what you would expect, and didn't seem to get quite as nasty as some feared before the event.  I doubt anyone's mind was changed about anything, but it still sounded like a pretty good discussion.<br /><br /><a href="http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20100429/1503079244.shtml">Permalink</a> | <a href="http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20100429/1503079244.shtml#comments">Comments</a> | <a href="http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20100429/1503079244.shtml?op=sharethis">Email This Story</a><br />
 ]]></description>
<slash:department>and-who-wins?</slash:department>
<wfw:commentRss>http://www.techdirt.com/comment_rss.php?sid=20100429/1503079244</wfw:commentRss>
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<item>
<pubDate>Thu, 25 Mar 2010 16:23:54 PDT</pubDate>
<title>As Expected Digital Economy Bill To Be Rushed Through With No Debate</title>
<dc:creator>Mike Masnick</dc:creator>
<link>http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20100325/1451448720.shtml</link>
<guid>http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20100325/1451448720.shtml</guid>
<description><![CDATA[ As was <a href="http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20100315/0034508554.shtml">predicted</a> by recording industry lobbyists a few weeks back, once the Digital Economy Bill made it through the House of Lords, the House of Commons would not debate it.  Instead, <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2010/mar/25/digital-economy-bill-commons" target="_blank">it looks like it will get pushed through via the "wash-up" process</a>.  Of course, this has resulted in many people asking a rather simple question.  Considering the massive controversy surrounding this bill, <a href="http://www.openrightsgroup.org/blog/2010/open-letter-to-bpi-and-uk-music" target="_blank">why won't Parliament at least debate it</a>?  The real answer is pretty obvious, of course.  This entire bill was pushed through by corporate entertainment industry lobbyists, and they know full well that with the upcoming election in the UK, a debate on this bill would likely kill it.  So, screw democracy when you have a business model to prop up.  Screw basic civil, human and privacy rights, if it helps the bottom line of a few companies too stubborn to adapt.<br /><br /><a href="http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20100325/1451448720.shtml">Permalink</a> | <a href="http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20100325/1451448720.shtml#comments">Comments</a> | <a href="http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20100325/1451448720.shtml?op=sharethis">Email This Story</a><br />
 ]]></description>
<slash:department>corporatocracy-in-action</slash:department>
<wfw:commentRss>http://www.techdirt.com/comment_rss.php?sid=20100325/1451448720</wfw:commentRss>
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<item>
<pubDate>Thu, 22 Oct 2009 07:46:00 PDT</pubDate>
<title>The Debate Is Not Free vs. Paid</title>
<dc:creator>Mike Masnick</dc:creator>
<link>http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20091019/0113066577.shtml</link>
<guid>http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20091019/0113066577.shtml</guid>
<description><![CDATA[ <a href="http://twitter.com/InternetLaw/statuses/4984266722">Michael Scott</a> points us to a column by Shelly Palmer that clearly articulates a point I've tried to make in the past, but haven't been able to make that clearly: <a href="http://www.shellypalmermedia.com/2009/10/18/free-vs-paid-the-wrong-debate/" target="_blank">arguing "free vs. paid" is the wrong debate</a>.  Professional content is always paid for somehow -- it's just a question of how.  In some cases it's a third party paying.  In some cases it's a user paying.  And, in some cases, it's a user paying not with money, but with something else, like time or attention, which helps give a third party the reason to pay:
<blockquote><i>
Can you frame this conversation as free vs. paid? No. Not if you are trying to get someone to pay you cash directly for something that is ubiquitously available for free. Free vs. Paid is not the great debate, it's a no-brainer -- free wins! Valueless vs Valuable, Scarce vs Ubiquitous, Demanding of attention vs Commanding of attention are the debates and the winners will be the individuals and organizations that can most effectively translate the value of content into wealth.
</i></blockquote>
Exactly.  This is why the focus on "free" is almost always misplaced.  People stop thinking once they hit that big oval zero -- and forget that free is simply a part of a larger business model, which is often about bringing in a larger audience that gives other reasons to pay.<br /><br /><a href="http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20091019/0113066577.shtml">Permalink</a> | <a href="http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20091019/0113066577.shtml#comments">Comments</a> | <a href="http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20091019/0113066577.shtml?op=sharethis">Email This Story</a><br />
 ]]></description>
<slash:department>that's-over</slash:department>
<wfw:commentRss>http://www.techdirt.com/comment_rss.php?sid=20091019/0113066577</wfw:commentRss>
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<item>
<pubDate>Thu, 4 Jun 2009 07:31:00 PDT</pubDate>
<title>eMusic Trying To Censor Critics Of New Pricing Plan? [Updated... And Again]</title>
<dc:creator>Mike Masnick</dc:creator>
<link>http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20090603/2329075118.shtml</link>
<guid>http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20090603/2329075118.shtml</guid>
<description><![CDATA[ We just wrote about the <a href="http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20090602/2250355103.shtml">PR nightmare</a> facing eMusic for announcing both a price increase <i>and</i> its first major record label signing at the same time -- leading many to assume that the price increase was <i>due</i> to the Sony Music deal.  Some in our comments pointed out that eMusic subscribers were protesting in a variety of places -- including on Twitter, where they were using the hashtag (used to designate a unique cause or event): #emusicfail.  And, as usually happens in such situations, many of the hundreds of commenters on <a href="http://17dots.com/2009/05/31/more-of-the-good-stuff/" target="_new">eMusic's own blog post on the deal</a> mentioned the Twitter hashtag, and encouraged others to start using it as well, while making their protests public.  So, how did eMusic address these angry <i>customers</i>?
<br><br>
It apparently made them disappear. <b>[see update below]</b>
<br><br>
A <a href="http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20090602/2250355103.shtml#c606">commenter</a> on our post, pointed us to a <a href="http://17dots.com/2009/05/31/more-of-the-good-stuff/#comment-94860" target="_new">comment on the eMusic blog</a> noting that all of the comments that mentioned the Twitter tag had been deleted by eMusic -- not only wiping out signs of the protest, but also screwing up the numbers of comments, which made the conversation confusing, since people are referring to other comments with the wrong number now.
<br><br>
So, rather than address the fact that there are a ton of angry protesters, eMusic simply decided to pretend they don't exist?  It's hard to see that ending well.
<br><br>
<b>Update</b>: eMusic got in touch to say that they have not blocked or deleted any comments, and suggest that it may have been an issue with CAPTCHA problems not allowing comments to post rather than any actual intent to block conversation on the subject.  The company also notes that it <a href="http://www.emusic.com/messageboard/viewTopic.html?topicId=175230#1061560">has responded</a> to the complaints, though I'm not sure it really addresses the specific complaints from subscribers.
<br><br>
<b>Update 2</b>: There is growing evidence that the original post was correct, and eMusic's response was false, though we're still trying to clarify.  Someone has <a href="http://17dots.com/2009/05/31/more-of-the-good-stuff/#comment-95378" target="_new">detailed</a> examples of comments moving up (which would happen if other comments above it were deleted) and also, perhaps the most damning of all is that, as of the time of this update, there's a 13 count discrepancy between the number of comments listed under the post, and the actual number of comments.  It certainly sounds like 13 comments were deleted, though eMusic insists that it has not removed any comments.<br /><br /><a href="http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20090603/2329075118.shtml">Permalink</a> | <a href="http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20090603/2329075118.shtml#comments">Comments</a> | <a href="http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20090603/2329075118.shtml?op=sharethis">Email This Story</a><br />
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<slash:department>not-smart</slash:department>
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<pubDate>Thu, 7 May 2009 13:13:00 PDT</pubDate>
<title>The Economist Debate On Copyright Needs Your Input</title>
<dc:creator>Mike Masnick</dc:creator>
<link>http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20090507/1241014783.shtml</link>
<guid>http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20090507/1241014783.shtml</guid>
<description><![CDATA[ As plenty of people have sent in, the Economist is running <a href="http://www.economist.com/debate/days/view/310" target="_new">an online debate about copyright this week</a>, kicked off with the opening statement "This house believes that existing copyright laws do more harm than good" and then allowing debaters to make the case both for and against the proposition.  Defending the motion is Harvard Law professor William Fisher, who has long been a proponent of reforming copyright law to make it much more reasonable.  Against the motion, and trying to make the case that copyright law does more good than harm is Cardozo Law professor Justin Hughes.  To be honest, I'm a bit disappointed that they chose law professors for the debate, rather than economists, because you would think economists would be better situated to determine good and harm, rather than law professors.
<br /><br />
Fisher does a decent job with the opening statement, though I think he could make the points more clear and much more forcefully by highlighting the value over time of the public domain on creativity.  Hughes' opening statement, however, is a mess.  Let's start with this:
<blockquote><i>
Those of us who think copyright law is a good idea--that it does more good than harm--believe that free market economic incentives are needed for the production (and often distribution) of all kinds of valuable expression and information, whether we are discussing educational value, civic value, or entertainment value. There is no question that much expression would be produced without copyright: the landed gentry was writing poetry before copyright. But to get both the desired amount and mix of expression, properly calibrated copyright is the best tool. The words "properly calibrated" are important, because once the new expression or information is created, social welfare is usually increased by its widespread distribution.
</i></blockquote>
This paragraph makes no sense to me.  It claims the free market is best, but then suggests the only way to get a free market is to grant gov't-backed monopolies, which are the exact opposite of a free market.  As if to drive home that contradiction, he goes on about "properly calibrating" this gov't system.  Again, that's not a free market.  If you're talking about properly calibrating, then you're talking about a government system.  Now, it's perfectly reasonable to make a defense that one needs a gov't program -- but it's disingenuous to claim that we need a free market, and then discuss the gov't program as if that is a free market.  It's not.  If you want a gov't program, then explain why we need a gov't program and defend that.  Don't claim it's a free market.
<br /><br />
He then goes on to claim that content that is paid for is somehow of higher quality than content produced under some other model.  But, the problem is he gets the details wrong and confuses correlation with causation.  He insists that a creative class can only exist with copyright, but that's simply not true.  We've seen business model after business model after business model that supports a "creative class" without relying on copyright to make money.  Yes, having a creative class is important.  And making sure they can earn money is important.  But that doesn't require copyright.  The fact that people like professionally produced content doesn't prove his point.  It just shows that people like professionally produced content.  It doesn't mean that you need copyright to produce it.
<br /><br />
Next, he claims that copyright is not hindering free expression, because we've seen this "absolute explosion of expressive production and dissemination with little or no hindrance from copyright law" and then brushes off the "horror stories" of limitations, by claiming that these horror stories need to "be weighed against the enormous flourishing of non-commercial expression that has coexisted with the copyright system."  That's totally missing the point.  The fact that lots of content does get produced doesn't mean that copyright doesn't create massive limitations on more creativity.  Again, he's confusing correlation with causation.
<br /><br />
He then concludes with another mistake:
<blockquote><i>
In truth, what we have now is a mixed economy for expression in which some expression is produced under a patronage model (foundation grants, universities), some expression is produced under the open source model (Linux, blogs), and some expression is produced under a profit/incentive model of copyright.
</i></blockquote>
See what he did there?  He claims that open source models are different than "profit/incentive" models.  That's simply untrue.  Plenty of people producing content under non-copyright models are doing it for profit.  And that's the key point that many of us have been raising.  There are plenty of other models to compensate creative professionals that don't rely on copyright.  Hughes' entire argument seems to be based on the idea that the only model of compensation is copyright, and everything else is "open source" or "non-profit" or "amateur."  He's wrong.
<br /><br />
The debate site is allowing comments from the public (and votes on the motion, which have been trending in the wrong direction), so it would be good for more people to join in and express how copyright has done more harm than good, and how Professor Hughes seems to be basing his arguments on a faulty premise.<br /><br /><a href="http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20090507/1241014783.shtml">Permalink</a> | <a href="http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20090507/1241014783.shtml#comments">Comments</a> | <a href="http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20090507/1241014783.shtml?op=sharethis">Email This Story</a><br />
 ]]></description>
<slash:department>go-to-it</slash:department>
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