Techdirt. Stories about "echostar"

Cisco Has Enough Of TiVo Patent Claims, Files To Invalidate TiVo Patents

Mike Masnick — Mon, 4 Jun 2012 05:03:00 PDT

Over the past few years, as competition in the DVR market has become tougher, TiVo has become more and more reliant on using its patents to stop competition and innovation, rather than focusing on competing in the marketplace. its most famous case was the one against EchoStar, which even included TiVo buying a bull (literally) in Eastern Texas, where the district court case was heard. While it won at the district court level, during the appeals process, the Patent Office suddenly indicated that the patents might not be so solid. Not long after that, TiVo and EchoStar worked out a settlement.

TiVo found the process so enjoyable that it apparently started thinking about a second career as a patent troll -- and has already sued Verizon and Motorola. Not surprisingly, it's been pushing some others to license some patents... and at least one large player has had enough. Cisco, owners of Scientific Atlanta, a maker of settop boxes and DVRs, has filed a lawsuit seeking to invalidate four TiVo patents -- or, if the patents are found valid, a declaratory judgment that it does not infringe.

Of course, by filing first, Cisco was also able to file the case in San Jose, rather than letting TiVo try to get the case into Texas (despite the fact that both Cisco and Tivo are located not far from each other in Northern California). As far as I know, TiVo has not purchased a bull in San Jose.

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Guess That Bull In Texas Was A Good Investment: EchoStar Agrees To Pay TiVo To Settle Patent Case

Mike Masnick — Mon, 2 May 2011 13:56:42 PDT

TiVo and EchoStar have been in a ridiculously long patent dispute over DVR patents that began years ago. TiVo won nearly all of the early rounds, but the tide turned a bit last year, though it looked like TiVo was going to get something out of this. Of course, all of this was happening while the Patent Office itself was expressing doubt about the patents in question.

The case is now over, with EchoStar agreeing to pay TiVo $500 million (significantly more than the initial jury award). Of course, some will use this to suggest EchoStar should have just paid up early on, and from a financial perspective, they're probably correct. But, really, this once again shows the ridiculousness of the patent system. Many millions of dollars were wasted on this lawsuit, and then a final massive transfer payment is made. All of that money could have gone towards actually innovating and building better products. What a waste.

Of course, this also brings to a close one of the more bizarre side notes to this story. Back when the district court case was being tried in East Texas, TiVo paid $10,000 to buy an award-winning bull in Marshall, Texas... which it renamed TiVo. Pretty much everyone suggests this was a really cynical ploy to influence the jury. I'm curious what ever happened to the bull?

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TiVo's 'Big Win' Over Dish On Patents Looking Less And Less Solid, As Patent Office Rejects Patent Claims

Mike Masnick — Tue, 8 Jun 2010 21:05:20 PDT

Early on TiVo had won pretty much of all of its patent battles with EchoStar over its DVR technology, perhaps helped along by a bit of bull buying in Texas. We had noted, however, that the USPTO had expressed concerns over the validity of the patents, and we wondered why the court case would move forward while the patents themselves might be rejected by the Patent Office. But, the case did go forward, and while TiVo initially won at the appeals court level (which made it so happy that it sued others and demanded ridiculous sums from EchoStar), things haven't been looking quite so good lately.

Last month, the appeals court vacated the earlier decision, and agreed to rehear the case. And, now, it turns out that the USPTO has rejected two patent claims that were a key part of this fight. Of course, as TiVo is quick to point out, this isn't the end of the review process, but it certainly raises serious questions about the validity of the patents TiVo is basing its whole strategy on.

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On Second Thought... Appeals Court Vacates TiVo's Big Patent Win Over Echostar

Mike Masnick — Fri, 14 May 2010 12:46:21 PDT

TiVo's lawsuit against EchoStar for patent infringement has been a mostly one-sided affair. TiVo appeared to win at every turn, to the point that there were stories suggesting EchoStar would have to start blocking the use of its own DVR. TiVo had celebrated these victories by suing others as well, and demanding ridiculous sums of money from EchoStar. Of course, it seemed odd to us that, while all of this was happening, the US Patent Office was admitting the patents might not be valid. Oops.

Today, however, TiVo got some bad news. Despite initially siding with TiVo, the Federal Circuit has vacated the win, and agreed to rehear the case. Perhaps TiVo needs to buy some local livestock in DC, like it did in East Texas...

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Copyright Damages Out Of Control: $51 Million For Satellite Cracking App?

Mike Masnick — Thu, 28 Jan 2010 02:53:00 PST

It continues to amaze me that there's anyone out there who thinks that the damages awarded in many copyright suits are anywhere close to reasonable or proportional to the "crime" at hand. Copycense points us to an article about a guy who was found guilty of putting software on the internet that allowed people to unlock Dish Network programming on unauthorized receivers. Because of this, Dish and another satellite TV provider, NagraStar, were awarded $51 million. $51 million -- for putting the software on the internet. That's all. The amount was determined based on the number of people who downloaded the software, even though, in all likelihood, a much, much smaller percentage would have ever actually paid for an authorized satellite TV account. Furthermore, this guy did not do the actual act of accessing the unauthorized signal, or breaking any encryption. He merely provided the tools to do so. Charging him with the bogus "cost" of each user of his software makes no sense at all. Even if you accept what he did was wrong and clearly illegal, it's difficult to see how that justifies the ridiculousness of the award.

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Fresh Off Victory Over Dish, TiVo Sues AT&T, Verizon

Mike Masnick — Thu, 27 Aug 2009 01:22:18 PDT

Why bother competing in the market when you can just sue everyone else? That appears to be TiVo's big strategy these days. Just a month after winning a big court victory over EchoStar/Dish over a patent that the USPTO is not really sure it should have issued, TiVo has moved on to sue both AT&T and Verizon in a nearly identical lawsuit. And, of course, you know exactly how the negotiations on this one start. TiVo will point to the headlines about the millions the the court has told Dish to pay. Whatever happened to the good old days when companies competed in the marketplace rather than in court? TiVo is a great and innovative product, no doubt. While not really the first such product, it did a great job convincing the market of the value of DVRs. But then others innovated as well, sometimes making their product even better. That's called competition and it should drive everyone to make better products. It appears TiVo would rather that the competitors be kept out of the market, rather than bothering to innovate in the market.

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Remind Me: Why Do We Let Patent Lawsuits Go On Even As USPTO Has Doubts About The Patents?

Mike Masnick — Thu, 6 Aug 2009 18:28:48 PDT

While plenty of people are familiar with the fact that NTP got $612.5 million from RIM in a patent dispute a few years back (which drew tremendous scrutiny into the realm of patents), one of the most interesting details that many people didn't follow was that at the same time as the lawsuit was going on, the US Patent Office was re-examining those same patents, and issuing rejections of the very same patents. Despite the USPTO even rushing to announce its problems with the patents way ahead of schedule, the judge chose not to wait for the final rejections and pressured RIM into paying up.

This sort of thing happens all the time.

For example, just weeks after TiVo was practically dancing in the streets over its latest wins over EchoStar in a patent dispute over basic DVR functionality, the USPTO has given an initial rejection on some of the claims at issue in the case. While TiVo is quick to downplay this as just the first step in a long process (which it gets to respond to), it's being a bit misleading in suggesting that this sort of thing happens all the time. Sure -- it happens a lot, but to questionable patents. It seems that, if the USPTO has agreed to review a patent and clearly the examiners have serous questions about the patentability of certain claims, shouldn't any lawsuits that hinge on those patents be put on hold?

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TiVo Goes Dr. Evil On EchoStar: One BILL-ion Dollars, Please

Mike Masnick — Tue, 14 Jul 2009 18:33:00 PDT

TiVo and EchoStar (DISH) have been involved in a long and convoluted patent battle over basic DVR functionality. TiVo's certainly been winning. Personally, the whole thing is pretty ridiculous to me. The market is better served by competition, and having multiple players focusing on providing better DVR functionality (and, trust me, having used both their DVRs, they could both stand for some significant improvements) rather than spending money on lawyers. Either way, TiVo seems to be shooting for the moon with its latest demand that Dish pay up $1 billion dollars (Dr. Evil laughter inserted here), which is a lot more than the hundreds of millions most folks expected. One doubts they'll actually get that much -- the number is probably more of an effort to get EchoStar to just settle. But, if they do get numbers like that, you have to admit that buying that cow in Texas was a great investment.

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Sling Still Upset About Remotely Hosted Slingboxes

Mike Masnick — Mon, 22 Dec 2008 01:34:54 PST

Almost two years ago, we wrote about how Sling Media, makers of the popular place-shifting Slingbox, was upset at various services that let people watch TV via their computers. Of course, that's exactly what the Slingbox is intended for -- but the twist here was that the TV was hosted somewhere else. Basically, a few companies set themselves up so that you could buy a Slingbox and a TV connection, but, rather than installing it in your own home, it would be hosted elsewhere. That's useful, say, if your an American living abroad, but still want to be able to watch American television. It was difficult to see what was wrong with any of this, as it seemed to be exactly what the device was designed to do -- and everyone who was supposed to be getting paid was still getting paid. Cable or satellite TV providers got an extra customer (one who doesn't even live in their territory, so it's actually a bonus!) and Sling sells another box.

The good news is that over those past two years, Sling (now owned by Echostar) apparently hasn't done much to stop these services. The bad news is that it's still complaining about them. Newsweek has an article that highlights how creative people have become in figuring out ways to do more interesting things with their Slingboxes so that they can watch content remotely. This is exactly the sort of thing a smart company would encourage. It makes the device more valuable and should help them sell more Slingboxes. So, it's too bad that a company that built such a cool and useful device is instead telling people they're not allowed to do these things with products they bought. Remember the good old days when you bought a product and actually owned it?

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Court Tells Echostar It Doesn't Get Access To Customer Lists Of Satellite Receiver Company

Mike Masnick — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 23:41:42 PDT

Recently, we wrote about how satellite TV provider Echostar had been sending out subpoenas demanding customer lists from resellers who had sold satellite receivers made by a company named Freetech. Freetech's satellite receivers can be used to receive perfectly legal over-the-air satellite TV signals. Echostar's complaint was that many also used Freetech's receivers to pirate its own DishTV offering. However, that doesn't give Echostar the right to then demand the contact info on everyone who ever bought a Freetech receiver, as many could be using them for perfectly legal purposes. And, historically, with DirecTV, we've seen a similar situation where the DirecTV forced plenty of totally innocent smart card device buyers to pay up by threatening them with lawsuits over pirated satellite TV.

Luckily, it looks like the EFF helped convince the judge that Echostar was out of line, and the judge has said that the buyers' privacy trumps Echostar's right to the info. As the EFF notes, this is a big ruling, in that it's "the first time a federal court has explicitly rejected a third-party subpoena on the basis of the privacy interests of nonparty consumers." Chalk one up for the right to privacy.

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Echostar Trying To Get Info On Innocent Customers Of Satellite TV Receivers

Mike Masnick — Wed, 20 Aug 2008 23:09:17 PDT

You may recall a few years back, prior to the RIAA embracing the concept of "pre-litigation letters," that DirecTV was a huge proponent of using them. The company had sued some companies that sold smart card readers -- which could be used for a variety of purposes, only one of which was potentially unauthorized access of satellite TV signals. However, DirecTV was still given access to those company's full customer lists, and proceeded to send most of them one of those pre-litigation letters, demanding $3,500 or saying that a lawsuit would be filed. Of course, plenty of buyers had perfectly legitimate reasons for purchasing a smart card reader that had nothing at all to do with pirating satellite TV. But, no matter, pay up or go to court. And, in fact, many people just paid up.

Eventually, a court finally told DirecTV to knock it off.

However, it appears that DirecTV's main competitors, Echostar never got the message. The EFF is pointing out that Echostar is trying to gain access to the customer lists of a bunch of sellers of a satellite receiver even if there's no evidence that the individual buyers used the satellite receivers to pirate Echostar's DISH Network satellite TV service.

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News Corp Found Guilty Of Hacking Only A Single DISH Smart Card

Mike Masnick — Tue, 20 May 2008 20:43:52 PDT

Last month we wrote about the strange case of DISH Networks accusing a News Corp subsidiary of hacking its smart cards and distributing them. This seemed really unlikely, as there was little incentive for the company to do so. The company did admit to reverse engineering DISH Networks technology (which is perfectly legal). It appears that a jury wasn't particularly convinced either. It did find the subsidiary guilty of hacking one single smart card, for which the company was fined $49.69 (ouch!), and then the court added another $1000 for "damages." So, technically it's a "victory" for DISH, but probably not to the level it was expecting.

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Did DirecTV Hire Satellite Hackers To Leak Dish TV Smart Cards?

Mike Masnick — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 04:31:50 PDT

I had missed this story when it came out last week, but thanks to a reader (who prefers to remain anonymous) for sending it in. Apparently, Dish Network is suing DirecTV, claiming that DirecTV (and its parent News Corp) hired notorious satellite TV hackers to break Dish's encryption and "flood the market" with hacked smart cards. That's quite a claim, and it will be interesting to see what evidence the company has to back it up. After all, reverse engineering a product is perfectly legal -- and, indeed, DirecTV claims that's all it did. Furthermore, it seems doubly strange that DirecTV would go down this route after so thoroughly pissing off smart card hackers of all kinds a few years ago by accusing them all of stealing DirecTV signals with almost no evidence, and then pushing many to pay up to avoid a lawsuit. It's also hard to see what the real benefit to DirecTV is of such a plan. Making it easier to get Dish for free shouldn't increase DirecTV's market at all. One would hope that Dish actually has some serious evidence to go along with these claims.

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Lessons From The 700 MHz Auction? More Of The Same

Mike Masnick — Thu, 20 Mar 2008 17:57:43 PDT

So the winners of the 700 MHz spectrum auction have been announced and to say that there were no surprises would be an understatement. It played out almost exactly as most observers predicted it would. Verizon Wireless ended up with the C-block (with Google only bidding right up to the cut-off amount to force Verizon to play by "open" rules) and AT&T added some spectrum as well, which it can add to the 700 MHz spectrum it picked up separately last year. The end result? Nothing too exciting for consumers. Whether or not Verizon Wireless's required "openness" makes a difference remains to be seen. What didn't happen was someone new entering the scene -- meaning that we're not going to see anything really new come out of all this spectrum.

In fact, perhaps the most bizarre bid of all was EchoStar spending $700 million on spectrum that can only be used for one-way communication. One-way communication is less and less useful these days. EchoStar has been making some interesting moves of late, but using this spectrum to build a mobile TV broadcast solution (which is what many expect) makes little sense. It will cost the company billions, and then they'll be limited to a one-way communication system just as people are recognizing that the real value is in multi-directional communications. It may give the company another option rather than relying on satellites (which are costly and troublesome at times), but the expense is way too high considering the limitations. So, even with EchoStar, we're talking about "more of the same." That's too bad, as there was a quiet hope that someone different would step in and do something really new and interesting with this valuable spectrum.

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Why Is Kevin Martin Advertising The DTV Switch On Dish Network?

Mike Masnick — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 00:07:00 PST

Last week, we noted that the GAO was concerned that the FCC didn't have plans in place to educate consumers about the switch from analog TV to digital TV, set to take place in February of 2009. Kevin Martin and the FCC shot back that the GAO was incorrect, and it has an education campaign well planned out. It would appear that's true, but that campaign is already raising some controversy. Reader MaxB312 writes in to point us to a Public Service Announcement that Martin himself filmed for Dish Network: As the summary of the video makes clear, some people are interpreting this commercial to be a sly way of suggesting that those who have analog TV should just sign up for Dish rather than getting a converter. Martin makes it clear that Dish Network subscribers have nothing to worry about, since this only impacts free over-the-air (FOTA) TV, and then says "but if your TV has rabbit ears or a rooftop antenna, you'll need a satellite box or a converter box." The problem is that you really only "need" a converter box -- not satellite. A satellite box would get you entirely beyond the issue of FOTA TV. Of course, so would a cable service -- which Martin doesn't mention at all. No wonder, since he apparently has it in for cable companies. While I don't necessarily buy the conspiracy theory that this is an attempt to help out satellite providers, it does raise an important question: why is the FCC advertising this to people for whom it won't matter? Why would the FCC put PSAs on either satellite or cable TV offerings when the switch doesn't impact those people at all? Perhaps the GAO's real complaint wasn't that the FCC didn't have a plan on how to educate people -- but that the plan consisted of educating the wrong group of people. Update: Well that answers that. As a bunch of folks noted in the comments, it's mainly targeted at rural areas where the broadcast OTA stations aren't all available via Dish.

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The Hidden Message Behind EchoStar's Potential Marriage To AT&T: U-Verse Sucks And Satellite TV Is Dying

Mike Masnick — Tue, 16 Oct 2007 22:14:00 PDT

We were a little confused last month when EchoStar announced plans to buy SlingMedia. Such a deal made some sense for the investors and founders of Sling, looking to cash out -- but at a strategic level it didn't seem to make much sense. Locking Sling into EchoStar seemed unnecessarily limiting, and the benefits to EchoStar of being the sole owner seemed... not all that compelling. However reports quickly came out about the details behind the plan. Basically, EchoStar CEO Charlie Ergen seems to be realizing that the satellite TV business has gone about as far as it can go, and its opportunities for growth aren't all that interesting. However, some of the technology behind what the company is doing is quite interesting, and when you combine that technology component with Sling, you potentially get something very interesting. The problem, though, is that you need to shed the whole satellite TV ~~albatross~~ legacy business. And who better to dump a dying business on than a massive telco who has trouble understanding business trends. Hello... AT&T... step right up. Indeed, the talk is now getting much louder that AT&T plans to buy EchoStar shortly in order to get approval from a friendly DOJ before a change in Presidential administrations could perhaps make it less business friendly. If true, then this sounds like a great deal for Ergen and EchoStar, who ditch the loser part of their business to focus on the growth part.

As for AT&T, initially, I would say that it's a bad deal, but that might not necessarily be the case due to its own problems elsewhere. AT&T flirted with buying DirecTV in 2003 and EchoStar in 2005. The company did invest in EchoStar, and already offers a bundled package. However, as we pointed out during the original EchoStar rumors, the combination doesn't seem to make much sense. If AT&T is really pushing for a triple play offering, they should focus on doing that all through a single pipe (as with its U-Verse offering), rather than getting tied up with the limitations of satellite. So why would it make sense? If AT&T's U-verse plans aren't going particularly well. In such a case, AT&T could buy EchoStar to get its hands on all of the pay-TV customers and hope that those customers can easily be transferred over to IPTV when AT&T finally figures out how to offer it more broadly. It would be about buying customers, not technology (the good technology would stay with Ergen anyway), squeezing some life out of the legacy satellite business and then casting it off and transferring everyone over to fiber. At least, that's the only way the plan makes any sense -- and it would still require AT&T be able to successfully convert DISH customers to U-Verse, which may not be particularly easy.

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Is An EchoStar Purchase Good Or Bad For Sling Media?

Mike Masnick — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 02:20:51 PDT

Late Monday, the news came out that EchoStar was buying Sling Media for $380 million in cash and stock. It's not surprising that Sling would go for such a deal, but it's a pretty wide open question as to whether or not this move will hurt Sling's prospects. EchoStar had already been an early investors in Sling, but in buying the entire company outright, it might make it that much harder for Sling to work with other providers, who might not want to be seen supporting the "competition." Also, since Sling isn't EchoStar's main business, if the company comes on hard times, it may not devote enough resources to keeping Sling moving forward. Finally, there were already plenty of companies who were upset about how the Slingbox enables placeshifting. There have been occasional threats of lawsuits from organizations like HBO and Major League Baseball. While Sling has pretty strong defenses for why the Slingbox is legal, now that there's a big company with a lot of money behind it, it becomes a much more attractive lawsuit target. In fact, it wouldn't be surprising to see lawsuits start to fly against Sling and EchoStar rather rapidly. All in all, it makes you wonder if Sling Media is actually worth a lot less as a part of EchoStar than independent. That doesn't mean it's a bad deal for the folks at Sling, who have a great opportunity to cash out -- but it could potentially slow down the innovation coming out of the company.

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