Michael Ho’s Techdirt Profile
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About Michael Ho 
Mike oversees the research department at Floor64. He has held various research roles at companies including BFGoodrich, Raychem and Nano-Tex. Before joining Floor64, Mike coordinated product development as a project leader at Nano-Tex. He earned his undergraduate degree from Cornell University and completed work towards a PhD at Stanford University. He continues to pursue his technical and scientific interests in a wide variety of fields.
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Re: Stupid... (as Michael Ho)
Actually, a similar thing happened to me at WalMart... and while annoying, the solution is that WalMart has a form that you can fill out which offers a way for you to declare that you are the copyright owner (presumably shifting the liability from WalMart to the consumer at the same time).
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Come on Techdirt (as Michael Ho)
The point I am trying to make is that adding rivalrous/non-rivalrous to the definion of theft, when that condition (non-/rivalrous)applies to both legal and illegal transactions is neither logical nor practical.
Seriously? It's not logical or practical to separate "theft" from "copyright infringement"? The penalties for theft vs copyright infringement are treated very differently by the law. I agree both are illegal, but the two actions are not the same.
Loss of use is not unique to theft... sure. But that doesn't mean that "rivalrous" can't be part of the definition. Taking stuff isn't unique to theft, so does that mean taking stuff can't be a valid part of the definition of theft?
I suppose you're trying to say that "theft" is the superset of "copyright infringement" -- but that that does not negate that there is a difference between the two concepts.
Re: War Bonds vs. Shares (as Michael Ho)
So you're thinking of a "SellaBand" .. for movies? OK. seems like a decent idea -- if movies can be created for a few grand or so...
Re: Worldwide rights are owned? (as Michael Ho)
I don't believe the Iron Sky project has a "free to distribute" aspect to it.... except for the trailer remix contest. But maybe I'm wrong? Timo?
I was more interested in the "connect with fans" part that included accessories for the movie. eg. "war bonds", video game, etc.
Re: Re: Re: Come on Techdirt (as Michael Ho)
I'm not making an "argument" here. This is a definition.
Theft is defined (conventionally) as taking a rivalrous good without permission from its owner. A police office can arrest people if the value of the rivalrous good is non-trivial. That's how theft usually works.
Is it generally considered "theft" if you tell me a joke and I repeat that joke elsewhere? No, because jokes usually have trivial value. So what if you have a very valuable piece of advice -- if you told it to me thinking that I would keep it secret, but then I told many more people... is that really theft? What if I just told one other person, and you never found out about it? Is that theft?
Songs and stories and ideas are fundamentally different from rivalrous goods. That is a definition, not a strawman argument. Treating non-rivalrous goods the same way you treat rivalrous goods is a decision that society can make. But it doesn't have to be that way.
The argument here is that non-rivalrous goods should be treated differently from theft because the offense of spreading an idea (without permission) is not the same as the offense of taking a car (without permission).
If you wish to define theft in such a broad manner that unauthorized communications are treated in the same criminal fashion as stealing a car, you are welcome to hold that opinion, but I'm pointing out that not everyone holds that opinion -- and in some cases, that definition of theft can be detrimental to the progress of society.
Imagine if you could only give a man a fish... and it was considered theft to teach a man to fish.
Re: Some thoughts (as Michael Ho)
Thanks for stopping by to comment, Timo. I didn't realize Finnish law prevented donations to for-profit entities.
I look forward to more updates for Iron Sky -- the concept sounds really interesting.... any other plot or background story details to share? :P
not a direct comparison... (as Michael Ho)
Obviously... you can't directly compare movies with $200 million budgets with movies produced for less than a tenth of that budget.
But the point here is that entertaining movies can be produced (and will be produced) for less than $20 million -- and these kinds of projects follow a model that appeal to fans, instead of accusing fans of possibly being thieves. And this "treat your fans right" philosophy can be practiced by any film producer, regardless of budget.
Re: What's wrong with people? (as Michael Ho)
aha.. is that's what going on with your comments, INtrigued?
personally, I hate my lenovo keyboard cuz the arrow keys are right next to the "back" button -- so sometimes when I want to move the cursor.. I'll hit "back" by mistake and lose whatever text I was entering. grr!
ok rant off.
Re: If these were smart lawyers *Oxymoron?* (as Michael Ho)
What did you try to do? hmm.
Re: Link is wrong (as Michael Ho)
Thanks for the catch. fixed.
Re: Re: Re: Techdirt continues to excuse piracy away (as Michael Ho)
How do you think moviemakers made money all these years - the public just didn't have any other option, so they went and bought the discs. Now they don't, as they have other options. Also, earlier movies were only competing among themselves; now they have added competition from games, the Net, etc.
This is exactly the reason why the industry must change. The marketplace has changed. Just as newspapers can't rely on classified ads anymore, filmmakers can't rely on selling plastic discs anymore. The companies that used to sell buggy whips can complain all they want about how cars will be the death of the horse-based transportation industry. But suing and complaining about customers usually doesn't win you any more customers.
Moviemaking *is* a complex business, but we're actually trying to help here. Complain all you want about how pirates are thieves. Does it really help the movie industry that much to complain about their audience? Copyright is a government-granted monopoly to encourage the creation of more content. Do we really need a "war on infringement" czar? Or should content creators adapt to the market and serve their audiences -- like every other business does?
Re: Come on Techdirt (as Michael Ho)
You're basically saying that because a movie is doing well it's perfectly okay to steal that movie so you can watch it again and again at home.
No. We're not saying it's okay to break the law at all. Copyright infringement is against the law. We're talking about how filmmakers can cater to their audience without treating their fans like criminals.
Say, for example, that Microsoft has a search engine with nearly identical results to Google's results. Should Google tell potential users that they've used "stolen" search results? Or should Google try to make its search experience better than Microsoft's so that even if Microsoft displays the same results -- users will still type keywords into Google instead of Bing? That is how you compete. You don't complain about your users. Complaining does not win you any customers.
Point blank people...piracy is theft. Just come off your high horse and admit it already.
It's always easy to try to make things either black or white. Piracy is infringement. Theft usually only applies to rivalrous/excludable goods -- where if *I* take your car, you don't have that car anymore. But if someone watches a downloaded movie, it doesn't prevent anyone else from watching it. It doesn't even prevent the viewer from watching it again and again.
Techdirt is merely pointing out that businesses that want to succeed shouldn't accuse their customers of theft. There are better ways to approach the problem of piracy. The movie business is trying to squeeze the wrong people. Offering reasons to buy to those who want to buy is a better strategy than trying to chase after people (who obviously don't want to buy) with threats and punishments.
Re: Techdirt continues to excuse piracy away (as Michael Ho)
Giving content away for free might help you become more famous, but it doesn't put bacon on the table. .... For every Zombieland there are two other movies that tanked.
Movies tank all the time -- it is not due to piracy. Some movies are just bad. Other productions spent too much and found that the demand for the umpteenth sequel wasn't as high as expected. If piracy were eliminated, would that guarantee the success of all movies? Piracy is likely a minor blip on the overall revenues...
Fact is most people who downloaded it and watched will never spend a dime on it. Why would anyone embrace a market that spends little to no actual money (as a whole) on product?
There's no "lost sale" here. But more fans *can* be created. This is about adapting to take advantage of cheap distribution costs. A downloaded movie should NOT be able to compete with the "theater experience" -- and if it does, then the movie makers should try to make the theater experience *better* -- not try to go after people who were never going to go to theaters in the first place.
Actually... I want some crazy Japanese flavors now. (as Michael Ho)
Some of the flavors sound really interesting... How much would Americans pay to get limited-edition Japanese flavors? Maybe those mailing labels should offer international shipping!
Re: Comment (as Michael Ho)
Thom,
Thanks for stopping by! Obviously, your experiment intrigues us, so if you ever do have updates that you're willing to share -- please let us know. Perhaps the things you learn may be generalized to more folks who produce creative works.
Keep up the good work with the experiments,
Mike Ho
Re: "he'd even be able to crowdfund a new book" (as Michael Ho)
Well, actually... he does:
http://bythom.com/d50guide.htm
Re: Re: Re: Re: Infinite good? (as Michael Ho)
Well.. if you just don't like the word "infinite" -- how about we just replace "infinite" with "non-rivalrous and non-excludable"...?
Re: Artist experiments (as Michael Ho)
Heh. Well the combined work of electricians and plumbers are already well-known... usually in the form of buildings and houses. Houses are generally "crowdsourced" by default. :P
Re: Hmmm, not sure about this (as Michael Ho)
I sorta wonder if you're setting up "moving goal posts" for the criteria of writing fiction. In Artificial Intelligence research, people used to say "you'll never have a computer that will beat a human at chess" -- and they don't say that anymore. But people still say, "computers can't match humans at doing X still -- or they don't play chess the same way humans do." Some AI researchers complain that the bar for intelligence keeps getting higher every time they achieve a new milestone for intelligent software.
Basically, I think we have to step back and try to recognize where crowdsourced fiction (or crowdwork in general) might have advantages and not try to focus on its shortcomings. Crowdwork may not be good for all things, but it might be very good (or better) for certain tasks.
Re: Disingenuous Indeed (as Michael Ho)
I actually wonder if the story could be salvaged and remixed into short(er) story that excludes most of the "bad" tweets -- and if Neil Gaiman would read a remixed version for another audiobook.