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by Mike Masnick

Fri, Nov 4th 2011 4:00am

Filed Under:
access, apps, cloud, copyright, licensing, streaming

Permalink.

Apps Letting You Stream Your Own Music From The Cloud Being Pressured Over 'Licensing'

from the you-don't-own-what-you-thought-you-own dept

When Google, Amazon and Apple all entered the "cloud music" space at about the same time, we pointed out that we seemed to be missing the real point of the cloud. That was, that all of the services required the storage provider's own client app to play the music stored there. As I noted, that's not what the promise of the cloud is. It should be about being able to store data in the cloud and then let any relevant app access that data through an API. It's positively ridiculous that the (all legal, by the way) music I have is stored in multiple places in the cloud. For years, I've backed it up with a person Amazon S3 account. But when Amazon launched its cloud music player, I couldn't just point the player to my S3 storage, but had to re-upload. Then when Google launched its Music Beta... re-upload. The best player in the space may be MP3Tunes, who is the most open and willing to let third parties in. But most of the big guys are limited.

So it's interesting to see that some folks are writing third party apps to access music in Google and Amazon's cloud... but apparently Amazon flipped out about the aMusic iPhone app and, as sent in by Jeffrey Nonken, politely asked the developer to kill the app, noting that since Apple doesn't have licenses that "allow" third party access, he has to wait until they have such licenses.

This is, to put it mildly, stupid. If I have legally obtained files, and I put them in a locker where only I have the legal access to them, why shouldn't I be able to point any app I want at it. This would be like saying that if I had a cllient side app playing music on my hard drive, I couldn't then get another app to play the same files... unless the hard drive maker got the right "licenses" from the record labels. How does that make any sense at all?

This is definitely a big problem with "cloud" services these days however, where folks like the record labels think they retain ownership and control of files that people think they legally "own," limiting how they can listen to them. That seems to give the labels much greater rights than are reasonable granted under copyright law... just because the files are stored at a data center, rather than on a local hard drive.

51 Comments | Leave a Comment

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John Doe, Nov 4th, 2011 @ 4:09am

The cloud is doomed
If the record labels and movie studios have there way, cloud storage will be doomed for anything other than your personal documents. But then if Microsoft figures out that they an force cloud storage providers to pay a license to store Word docs, even that could be doomed.

[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
That Anonymous Coward (profile), Nov 4th, 2011 @ 4:20am

Well you shouldn't be able to because a bunch of overpaid executives who fear technology have paid large sums of money to spineless government officials to make the laws screw the people.

In a world where the length of the cable matters, this makes perfect sense.

The labels/studios deserve to be handed a "tax" on every single 0 & 1 that might ever be in their copyrighted works, so they just demand you pay a license or they sue you into oblivion, then buy up your tech at auction, then shove in some DRM and call it a day.

I tried for sarcasm... still is far to real... sigh.

[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, Nov 4th, 2011 @ 4:24am

The solution to that problem is to use a distributed storage system, that they can't bully.

The advantages of it, it is that governments also can't force no one to hand your stored info since there are not single administrators to ask.

Also if they are flipping out about that wait until they see, streaming services that are legal apparently, people can stream live TV to the internet apparently in most regions.

http://www.zeropaid.com/news/96512/how-to-watch-tv-online-for-free/

Say goodbye to affiliated fees, business as usual will not be so for long.

[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
Not an Electronic Rodent (profile), Nov 4th, 2011 @ 4:24am

Virtual is confusing
It almost seems like corporations are trying to blur the lines between virtual goods and services and ideas in the same way they blur the lines between physical and virtual goods when it suits them. That and a massive sense of entitlement that seems to claim "If it goes anywhere near something we once thought of we're owed some money for it... right?"

[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
John Doe, Nov 4th, 2011 @ 4:38am

Re: Virtual is confusing
That is exactly the problem with IP, they want their cake and eat it to. The gatekeepers want it treated like real property when it suits them (theft vs. copying) and treated like IP when it suits them (license vs. buy). IP allows so much more than RP ever could yet it is locked down so much more than RP ever was.

[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
AJ (profile), Nov 4th, 2011 @ 4:58am

Anyone could buy/download Windows Home Server, set it up on an old PC, and use it to stream music and movies to any device they have legal or not. I'm sitting here at work listening to music streaming off my server at home as we speak. Since it's so easy to do it yourself, you would think they would want to make just as easy, or even more so on the "cloud". Especially if they can generate revenue from the service through adds and such..

Throwing up artificial barriers is just going to cause the customer to figure out a way to do what they want themselves.

[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
Ninja (profile), Nov 4th, 2011 @ 5:00am

There he goes again, /Pirate Mike/ keeps swinging like a /pendulum/ between his /pro-piracy/ and /anti-copyright/ stances. Hey /chubby/, the judges have already ruled at Zediva's case that it's a matter of length of the cord. But no, with your /broad brush/ theories you often let small details like this escape. But oh how I can't wait for SOPA to pass and see you screaming in despair with your /freetard/ /syncophants/! It'll be fabulous!

/troll

Shit... I must have scored some sort of record here.

[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, Nov 4th, 2011 @ 5:02am

Re: The cloud is doomed
Use ODF or another open standard.
Particularly I prefer simple TXTs, people will be able to open then in 20 years, DOC documents probably not.

[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, Nov 4th, 2011 @ 5:20am

"This would be like saying that if I had a cllient side app playing music on my hard drive, I couldn't then get another app to play the same files... unless the hard drive maker got the right "licenses" from the record labels."

Uh Oh. You might have given some folks an idea right there for the next ridiculous bill to propose.

[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
Overcast (profile), Nov 4th, 2011 @ 5:26am

So then.. why doesn't the music industry provide licenses with CD's?

What about my old CD's and maybe even cassettes or records; the technology does exist to digitize all of that - where are my licenses RIAA?

I feel ripped off - I have all this music I've bought, but was never provided licenses.

If they want us to have licenses, then why won't they provide them for both new and old music I have?

It's not very well logical to expect people to have something that was never provided.

[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
btrussell (profile), Nov 4th, 2011 @ 5:27am

Hey! Hey! You! You! Get off of my cloud!

[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
A Monkey with Atitude, Nov 4th, 2011 @ 5:42am

Re:
Check out Amahi.org (IMO) it is much more powerful than Microsoft's Home Server, does the same things, is actually easier to setup, and its FREE (oh know some troll come along and say Freetard)...

I do Itunes Streaming, DNLA, DHCP, and Linux (oh and lots more)

Just something thought you might like to check out...

[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
Another AC, Nov 4th, 2011 @ 5:42am

Re:
I am somewhat disappointed that someone had the same thought as me and beat me to posting it. Kudos to you.

On a more relevant note, I believe those lyrics there are exactly what the labels think when they hear about Amazon and Google's cloud storage ideas.

[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
DannyB (profile), Nov 4th, 2011 @ 5:53am

Re: Re:
If he had the same thought as you, then someone obviously stole it and should be sued. Regardless of who thought of it first, a minimum of one lawsuit is required.

[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
AJ (profile), Nov 4th, 2011 @ 6:13am

Re: Re:
Thanks for the tip. I will certainly check it out!

[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
Bengie, Nov 4th, 2011 @ 6:16am

Re: The cloud is doomed
If the record labels and movie studios have there way, they would just tax us and not provide any services.

[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, Nov 4th, 2011 @ 6:18am

If I can't stream my own music to myself I'm a criminal LoL

I use VLC to stream music to Android and other computers.

http://www.videolan.org/doc/streaming-howto/en/

- Open a port in your computer(e.g.: 7070)
- Set up the VLC server to stream HTTP on port 7070
- Use "ifconfig" to get your IP address.
- Use any video player in any device that lets you type a url and type for example:

http://[ip here]:[open port here]
http://127.0.0.1:7070

And you are streaming.

But trust me, once you done it once in front of kids or your wife they will bug you forever to show something to someone at odd times, unless you set ground rules, like no streaming after 8 o'clock at night of before 8'clock in the morning.

[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
btrussell (profile), Nov 4th, 2011 @ 6:19am

Re: Re:
"...what the labels think when they hear about Amazon and Google's cloud storage ideas."

Yet I picture Kieth Richards when I think about the labels.
Go figure!
http://www.freakingnews.com/pictures/35000/Keith-Richards-35000.jpg

[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
btrussell (profile), Nov 4th, 2011 @ 6:32am

Re: Re: Re:
"I picture Kieth Richards when I think about the labels"

He is so old, he can remember when the Rolling Stones were just tiny pebbles!

[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, Nov 4th, 2011 @ 6:36am

Demonstration of an old version of VLC and what it could do at the time, it does more today.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=258rnzeBbAs

Now imagine you have a friend and he is traveling and you want him to be able to see the game with you, well use VLC to stream to him, get your wife to stram it to you.

You need to show someone a live stream of something in the field? you want to show your wife or kids where you are? stream it with VLC to them at home.

But there is a problem, some people want to make it illegal to transmit video on the internet, they say it is to stop criminals what they don't say is that they want to label everybody a criminal to stop anyone from doing something they don't want others to do, so if you send a video to your husband of a game you are a criminal, if they catch people streaming their own videos and start cutting into their profits they will try to claim you can't do that anymore even if it is your own stream and with the powers they will be granted who will fight against that kind of thing?

[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, Nov 4th, 2011 @ 6:50am

...
Swear these fucks won't be happy until we're paying every time we watch anything/listen to a song. If they could find a way to charge us for getting a song stuck in our head they would.

[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
Butcherer79 (profile), Nov 4th, 2011 @ 7:03am

Re:
In the UK, Sky TV allows you to stream their channels to iPhone, iPads, soon android and laptops through SkyGo, but you can only register it on two seperate devices.
I like this idea, personally, and it also means I don't miss games, movies, or anything else when I'm away from home.

[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
Pipps, Nov 4th, 2011 @ 7:17am

Clouds.
Amazon either allows you to play your purchased music via their player that directly streams from their cloud storage, or you can download the songs directly to your PC and use what ever player you want.

The next logical step would be to make an app that rather than stream from the cloud in place of Amazons app, is to have it temporarily download the songs directly from the cloud and play it as it downloads and delete it when complete or when the track is skipped.

[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
Chris Rhodes (profile), Nov 4th, 2011 @ 7:20am

Alternatives
I use Subsonic to stream music from my home machine. Subsonic has an app on all major phone OSes, and can also be used with any browser that has flash support.

[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
weneedhelp (profile), Nov 4th, 2011 @ 7:36am

Re:
Use "ifconfig" to get your IP address
I think he meant ipconfig, but most users connect behind a router of some sort and will need to use https://www.whatismyip.com/ (or similar) to show their outside ip, then configure their router to forward the port selected to the internal ip they are actually at.

Not for the average bear. For the above average bear on Windows there is always IIS.

[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
MrWilson, Nov 4th, 2011 @ 7:48am

Re:
They want it both ways. You only get a license for the particular physical copy that you purchased. That implied license doesn't allow you to format shift or share it with friends. Also, you have to name your first born after the music label's CEO's dog.

[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
Not an Electronic Rodent (profile), Nov 4th, 2011 @ 8:15am

Re: Re:
Use "ifconfig" to get your IP address

Nah! Means he's a geek.... IPConfig = Windows, ifconfig = Unix/Linux and I think he was talking about intra-house streaming rather than out to internet.

[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
Atkray (profile), Nov 4th, 2011 @ 8:24am

While the alternatives to streaming from the cloud are all good (Thank you) they miss one big reason for moving your music or videos to the cloud, if something happens to my home server or worse my whole home I still have the cloud service.

For me that is the big motivation for shifting files to the cloud I upload documents to my skydrive and they are instantly on servers around the world.

[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, Nov 4th, 2011 @ 8:44am

It will be cold day in hell when I pay anything again to the bastards of the industry for the privilege to stream my own music to myself.

[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, Nov 4th, 2011 @ 8:46am

Re: Re:
In Linux is ifconfig on windows I have no idea.

[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, Nov 4th, 2011 @ 8:49am

Re: Re: Re:
Both actually, for intra you just use the loopback(127.0.0.1) instead of the eth0 or PPP interface.

[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, Nov 4th, 2011 @ 8:53am

Re: Re: Re: Re:
or the 168 or 172 address that the router gives out.

[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, Nov 4th, 2011 @ 9:09am

Re:
Now there's an idea. Store every third byte on a different service. First on on Apple, second one on Google, third one on Amazon. Then there is no infringement anywhere. When you play your tunes with your new HyperFangle AudioCompilerPlayer (TM) which will seamlessly stream your music by piecing the songs back together on the fly. Since you don't actually have anything complete stored anywhere, except fleetingly in ram on YOUR hardware, it is physically impossible for you to infringe on anything. If Amazon or some such say "Your not using MY player, wa wa wa", you can say, "OK, play anything in my account, on your site with your player, ha ha ha."

[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Anonymous Coward, Nov 4th, 2011 @ 9:14am

Real v Intellectual Property
There is an analysis I would like to see from some legal types. What burdens do law put on the different types of property, real and intellectual, and how balanced are they on their own and in comparison?

[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
Ron Rezendes (profile), Nov 4th, 2011 @ 9:21am

Re: Clouds.
Just to drive the paytards crazy, sometimes Amazon charges $0.00 for music! I download all kinds of free music from Amazon. I keep the stuff I like in my locker and I toss the stuff I don't like. The labels don't see a dime from me and they likely never will again!

[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
nasch (profile), Nov 4th, 2011 @ 9:43am

Misplaced anger?
but apparently Amazon flipped out about the aMusic iPhone app... folks like the record labels think they retain ownership and control of files that people think they legally "own,"

Why did you mention the record labels when Amazon appears to be the problem here? The record labels don't want you streaming your own music at all, but I can't see why they would care which player you use. Amazon, on the other hand, does want you to use their player.

[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
John Doe, Nov 4th, 2011 @ 9:48am

Re: Real v Intellectual Property
I think what you would find is that the burdens put on RP are based on reality and are reasonable. For example, I take your car you no longer have your car. The burdens put on IP are artificial and now to the point of being unreasonable. I copy your $1 song I get fined $82,000.

[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, Nov 4th, 2011 @ 10:40am

Re: Re:
You mean create a virtual RAID 5.

[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, Nov 4th, 2011 @ 10:42am

Re: Re:
Virtual RAID 5 overlay.

[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, Nov 4th, 2011 @ 10:43am

Re: Re:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAID

Hmmm...byte level would be RAID 3

[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, Nov 4th, 2011 @ 10:48am

Re: Re:
You've just tripled your failure rate..

If any one of the three services are down, you're down.

[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
Sean T Henry (profile), Nov 4th, 2011 @ 11:09am

Re: Re:
Just change all the extensions instead of music.mp3 it would be music.3pm that way your not listening to music you are just loading a file.

[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
Bear (profile), Nov 4th, 2011 @ 12:08pm

Re: Re:
"I think he meant ipconfig"

No, no he really didn't.

[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, Nov 4th, 2011 @ 12:10pm

Re: Re:
Try HFS:HTTP Home Server. It's simple, free, streams video & audio, stores apps & docs. It's a great cloud service from your own computer.

I am not associated with the product, just think it's great.

[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
BigKeithO (profile), Nov 4th, 2011 @ 2:21pm

Re: Re:
I recently purchases a new NAS for my home network. It allows home streaming, FTP access, AjaXplorer access, remote streaming, DLNA support, torrent support and more.

No need for an entire server these days, a $200 NAS will do the trick.

[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
Bob Ketterer, Nov 4th, 2011 @ 8:06pm

Playing my Music
The solution is very simple. I've stopped buying music with a copyright. Occasionally, Google gives me some free music and, if interested, I'll play it. There are many of us and the number is growing. So the real trick is to get me interested in any music that not supplied by the radio in the car. The record company's greed has just turned me off completely. The hogs suck the artists and customer dry and then sue us for sharing a song of two. Music, the great communicator, the first social network, is almost dead; because of a few greedy gate keepers.

[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
JEDIDIAH, Nov 5th, 2011 @ 12:15pm

Ubergeek with a cherry on top...
Or you could just poke around the menus in your home router and find out where the DHCP table is stored. You will likely find all of your home devices in there with enough details to suss out what's what.

[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, Nov 5th, 2011 @ 5:15pm

Re: Ubergeek with a cherry on top...
arp -a

[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
John Fenderson (profile), Nov 8th, 2011 @ 3:02pm

Re:
Yes, but you haven't solved the problem, just moved it -- if something happens to the cloud server, you're equally out of luck.

I've been running my own servers for better than 15 years now and haven't had a single failure or service outage yet. If one happens, well, that's why I have backups. I don't think the risk of losing your own servers is big enough to make that the deciding factor.

[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
John Flagherty, Nov 12th, 2011 @ 5:53am

Other Providers
Would apps on Android like CloudAround who stream their OWN music from their OWN storage like Dropbox or Amazon S3 be liable to licensing? It doesn't really make complete sense, but it's a grey area. Android seems to be more relaxed than Apple.

[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
nasch (profile), Nov 12th, 2011 @ 8:33am

Re: Other Providers
Would apps on Android like CloudAround who stream their OWN music from their OWN storage like Dropbox or Amazon S3 be liable to licensing?

Are you asking about an Amazon app that streams from Amazon storage? Or a third-party app that streams Joe's music to Joe from Amazon's storage? I don't think anyone's up in arms (yet) about the former, and the latter is what this article is about.

[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

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Apps Letting You Stream Your Own Music From The Cloud Being Pressured Over 'Licensing'

from the you-don't-own-what-you-thought-you-own dept

Reader Comments (rss)

The cloud is doomed

Virtual is confusing

Re: Virtual is confusing

Re: The cloud is doomed

Re:

Re:

Re: Re:

Re: Re:

Re: The cloud is doomed

Re: Re:

Re: Re: Re:

...

Re:

Clouds.

Alternatives

Re:

Re:

Re: Re:

Re: Re:

Re: Re: Re:

Re: Re: Re: Re:

Re:

Real v Intellectual Property

Re: Clouds.

Misplaced anger?

Re: Real v Intellectual Property

Re: Re:

Re: Re:

Re: Re:

Re: Re:

Re: Re:

Re: Re:

Re: Re:

Re: Re:

Playing my Music

Ubergeek with a cherry on top...

Re: Ubergeek with a cherry on top...

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Other Providers

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