Former Sun CEO: Tech Companies Suing Over Patents Is An Act Of Desperation

from the indeed dept

Three years ago, after one of Microsoft's regular bursts of FUD claiming that Linux violated all sorts of Microsoft patents, then CEO of Sun, Jonathan Schwartz, wrote up a brilliant post knocking Microsoft down a peg by repeating a line we've said many times here ourselves: real innovative companies innovate, not litigate. Now, following Apple's patent offensive against HTC, and unencumbered of corporate responsibilities, Schwartz is sharing a bit more detail on his views over patents (found via Mathew Ingram).

Schwartz tells the story of Steve Jobs calling him and threatening Sun with a patent infringement lawsuit, to which Schwartz quickly warned Jobs that going down that path would lead to a patent nuclear war, as he pointed out how recent Apple products likely infringed on Sun patents. He then tells another story about a visit from Bill Gates, with a similar threat over patents -- and a similar response, pointing out that Microsoft clearly copied certain Sun technology. In both cases, the counterweight made the threats go away. This is the whole "nuclear stockpiling" scenario -- and, as such, it creates a ton of waste. You have to keep building up those stockpiles just to make sure the other side is too scared to sue you.

But the key point is made after this, where Schwartz again makes a statement quite similar to ones we've made when a big tech company suddenly goes on the patent offensive. It's a canary-in-the-coalmine sign that something is wrong:
For a technology company, going on offense with software patents seems like an act of desperation, relying on the courts instead of the marketplace.
He also highlights how these lawsuits can backfire in a big, big way:
Having watched this movie play out many times, suing a competitor typically makes them more relevant, not less. Developers I know aren't getting less interested in Google's Android platform, they're getting more interested -- Apple's actions are enhancing that interest.
Indeed. It's a point that still seems missed by so many when discussing these patent lawsuits.


Reader Comments (rss)

(Flattened / Threaded)

  •  
    identicon
    angry dude, Mar 10th, 2010 @ 12:57pm

    Give it a rest

    Mikey

    Nobody is gonna give you 100 mil
    so why don't you just give it a rest ?

    Everybody and his brother is sick of your propaganda

     

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    •  
      icon
      bwp (profile), Mar 10th, 2010 @ 1:01pm

      Re: Give it a rest

      Propaganda?

       

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    •  
      icon
      crade (profile), Mar 10th, 2010 @ 1:13pm

      Re: Give it a rest

      umm.. yeah how dare you tell people what the CEO of Sun said..

       

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    •  
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      Dark Helmet (profile), Mar 10th, 2010 @ 1:38pm

      Re: Give it a rest

      Yeah, Mikey!

      In fact, we're so sick of you that we make sure to show up every once in a while, religiousy coming back for more and more, and even taking the time to comment on the articles of yours that we've only read because we don't want any more articles!

      Wait....

       

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    •  
      identicon
      *angry dude, Mar 10th, 2010 @ 1:50pm

      Re: Give it a rest

      Hi! I was so afraid my little program had gone offline... it's been so long since we heard from you!

      How have you been?

      You speech concatenation routines are obviously learning at an adequate rate, as the latest sentences appear almost human.

       

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    •  
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      jjmsan (profile), Mar 10th, 2010 @ 1:59pm

      Re: Give it a rest

      You are however a big hit with everyones' sisters.

       

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    •  
      identicon
      dude, Mar 10th, 2010 @ 3:51pm

      Re: Give it a rest

      If you're sick of mr. mike's stories imagine how sick of respondents like yourself those of us who find them interesting and relavant are.

       

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    •  
      identicon
      abc gum, Mar 10th, 2010 @ 6:05pm

      Re: Give it a rest

      "Everybody and his brother is sick of your propaganda"

      Speak for yourself

       

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    •  
      identicon
      Anonymous Coward, Mar 11th, 2010 @ 8:30am

      Patents only source of Protection from Corporate Thugs

      Gotta love idiot blog sites like this one.

      Patents--sadly--are the only protection left for smaller companies from having their IP stolen from them by larger competitors from steamrolling them.

      It's very easy for the former CEO of Sun to argue innovation. The truth is that for every Sun, there are hundreds of smaller companies with innovative ideas that are taken right from them by companies the size of Sun.

      If not for patents, the small companies would have no ability to protect their inventions, their intellectual properties.

      Clearly no one arguing against patent protection has ever started their own firm. Had they, they would realize that start-up companies spend the majority of their time forming business alliances with the big boys--in the form of partnerships, joint ventures, or subcontractors.

      The large companies very often simply "steal" the process or methodologies of the innovator with the belief that the startup doesn't have the money to protect its IP--even incases where it does have a patent.

      Yes, sometimes litigation IS desperation. Yes, startups would clearly prefer to develop their product and grow it. Often, they aren't allowed to do so--NDA MOU notwithstanding. They get steamrolled. End of story.

      For the handful of companies with IP being infringed upon that have the guts--and revenue--to fight back, I salute you. It aint easy. And it isn't by any means a certainty in court.

      But it's better than rolling over and quitting. It's better than being taken advantage of by a Sun-sized company, whose leadership embodies the phrase "unbridled hubris."

      Hang in there, start up. Fight the good fight.

      Everyone else can F themselves.

       

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    •  
      identicon
      Anonymous Coward, Mar 11th, 2010 @ 9:00am

      Patents only source of Protection from Corporate Thugs

      Gotta love idiot blog sites like this one.

      Patents--sadly--are the only protection left for smaller companies from having their IP stolen from them by larger competitors from steamrolling them.

      It's very easy for the former CEO of Sun to argue innovation. The truth is that for every Sun, there are hundreds of smaller companies with innovative ideas that are taken right from them by companies the size of Sun.

      If not for patents, the small companies would have no ability to protect their inventions, their intellectual properties.

      Clearly no one arguing against patent protection has ever started their own firm. Had they, they would realize that start-up companies spend the majority of their time forming business alliances with the big boys--in the form of partnerships, joint ventures, or subcontractors.

      The large companies very often simply "steal" the process or methodologies of the innovator with the belief that the startup doesn't have the money to protect its IP--even incases where it does have a patent.

      Yes, sometimes litigation IS desperation. Yes, startups would clearly prefer to develop their product and grow it. Often, they aren't allowed to do so--NDA MOU notwithstanding. They get steamrolled. End of story.

      For the handful of companies with IP being infringed upon that have the guts--and revenue--to fight back, I salute you. It aint easy. And it isn't by any means a certainty in court.

      But it's better than rolling over and quitting. It's better than being taken advantage of by a Sun-sized company, whose leadership embodies the phrase "unbridled hubris."

      Hang in there, start up. Fight the good fight.

      Everyone else can F themselves.

       

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  •  
    identicon
    yozoo, Mar 10th, 2010 @ 1:12pm

    hmmm

    Microsoft is till in business, Sun Microsystems isnt. Maybe in todays market it is actually better to litigate then to innovate.

     

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      senshikaze (profile), Mar 10th, 2010 @ 1:22pm

      Re: hmmm

      the reasons for that have nothing to do with patents. frankly sun didn't have the product to push. Which is sad, because i like MySQL, OOo, (sometimes)Java, and their Solaris stuff (specifically zfs). Sun was an innovative company and it is sad to see them get gobbled up.
      But, it all comes back to lack of product. I know very few people who have actually worked on a sun box in the last ten years. Maybe the oracle acquisition is exactly what sun needs.

       

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        identicon
        Anonymous Coward, Mar 10th, 2010 @ 1:54pm

        Re: Re: hmmm

        Yeah, and don't forget Sun's massive lawsuit against Microsoft over Java, which effectively killed any support Microsoft might have given Java.

         

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    identicon
    ckoning, Mar 10th, 2010 @ 4:01pm

    Oversight vs. Dismissal

    It's a point that still seems missed by so many when discussing these patent lawsuits.
    The point is more frequently dismissed than missed. The idea that litigating hurts brand image while promoting a product or service that is so competitive as to make the expense and time worthwhile runs counter to the notion that a lawsuit will make the offering disappear or pay licensing fees. The common conception seems to be that the increase in purchase, subscription or other revenue resulting from a favorable judgement will far outweigh the less measurable loss in reputation and short term market share. It would be nice to see some studies done on this topic, as there surely is enough data over the last decade to draw meaningful conclusions on the issue.

     

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    Michael (profile), Mar 10th, 2010 @ 4:37pm

    Seems to me there is a reflection of this desperation going on in the App store as well.

    The App store apps are getting all cleaned up and pushed to be more focused within in their respective categories, but the problem with that is exactly what's being predicted would happen. Developers are going away from the App store and looking for other platforms where apps aren't always being scrutinized and cut from the revenue stream if they aren't deemed worthy in the eyes of Apple.

    I can see why Apple has taken this position, which is to clean up the ridiculous amounts of worthlessness in the App store. Though the problem with this position is that the App store is being given too much power as a "one stop shop" and not enough social interaction with the apps themselves. I'm going to diverge a little from the topic at hand to explain what I mean.

    Currently the apps have ratings, but ratings often mean nothing since apps, even good apps, are being rated into oblivion or stuck at the forever mediocre position of a three star nothing. Primary reason why is because every time somebody deletes an app, they are asked to rate it on their phone. Cool idea, but absurdly useless.

    Why would I delete an app that I love? How many people rate an app that they love? They don't. They use the app, which is a testament to its popularity and usefulness. Essentially, ratings are pointless unless all apps get rated. Not all apps will be rated, which means that not all of them are getting the kudos they deserve. Don't get me wrong, apps are still rated and they still have many apps that are closer to four or five stars, but that's because of people who put in the effort to rate the apps.

    Then there are the comments. They are basically akin to drudging through youtube comments, except on your phone, on Apple's own commentary platform. This is aggravating because the comments can be very useful when someone puts in the time to comment. There is no way to push these comments up so that people can quickly view them and make a decision on whether they want an app or not. The whole App store system is a huge mess that needs to be fixed.

    Which brings me to the point. The app store needs to be fixed, yet Apple's way of fixing it is not the way to do it. A stronger social and open app policy is how it's going to get better, not forcing out applications and thus, developers from their platform. Likewise, Apple's problem with other companies encroaching on its territory isn't going to be fixed by strong-arming the competition with ridiculous litigation marches on another company's success.

    It means Apple's focus is becoming a huge mess and it needs to clean it up. Primary example is the iPad. An entirely obvious product that was destined for launch as soon as everyone laid eyes on the iPhone. I predict that the App store will be completely irrelevant on the iPad after web apps become the primary source for everyone's day-to-day needs. Watch for Apple to block webapps from Google and MS when this happens.

    It all comes back to Apple and their love for control over the entire Apple ecosystem. How OS X users have gotten away with so much for so long seems stupefying to me considering how hard Apple worked to lock users in. It won't work this time. No matter how clean Apple wants things, people don't work that way, even their own die-hards.

    When something else works better, people will use it. Locking people into using only what Apple blesses to be the right way is asking for trouble in the long run. It's the same thing content companies are facing, the same thing horse and buggy companies faced, the same thing that all companies that rely on lock-in to fuel their business model will face.

    End tangent.

     

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      identicon
      Nate, Mar 10th, 2010 @ 5:17pm

      Re: Seems to me there is a reflection of this desperation going on in the App store as well.

      Quick disclaimer: not a developer.

      But, as an outsider, it would seem to me that I would constantly be worried that Apple would decide to take the thrust of one of my apps and make it part of the "core functionality" of the iPhone/iPad, and then axe my app for replicating it.

      I can't say that Google/Android are MUCH better... but at least when Google elbows in on somebody else's turf, they don't kick them out of the Android Marketplace altogether. The only notable example I can think of is a Voice-to-Text app that pre-dated Android's native v2txt, but it was using Google's servers and APIs to do it, anyway, and the guy probably made a couple hundred bucks from it at the end of the day.

       

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    hamill8152 (profile), Mar 10th, 2010 @ 10:29pm

    Streisand Effect

    Maybe we should have a new version of the Streisand Effect for tech companies that go on the patent offensive?

     

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  •  
    identicon
    Michael F. Martin, Mar 26th, 2010 @ 2:55pm

    Tim O'Reilly asks the right question

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]


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