The RIAA will sue everyone that shares the songs later anyway.

…So, where the hell did they actually release it? There was no link in the Forbes article, I didn’t see it on TPB, there was no link on their homepage that I could find… for someone wanting to get their music out there, they don’t seem to be doing a very good job at it…

Okay, searching further I managed to find a link to it on their Facebook page. In case anyone else is wondering, you can find the bundle here. But really, it’s pretty bad that it takes this much time to find even when you’re actively looking for it. I honestly don’t understand why they don’t have a news entry for this on their homepage nor why Forbes does not actually link to the free thing that they’re talking about.

Piracy doesn’t really seem to reduce sales, for example, despite free alternatives being available, people still went to see the movie avengers and, despite (illegal and) free alternatives, they still pay to download music online.

No, what IP extremists are really afraid of is competition. Now that competition can enter the market these people must actually work (harder) for their income. That’s what they don’t want.

and, outside of the Internet (through anticompetitive laws like govt established broadcasting and cableco monopolies and laws, legal penalty structures, that deter restaurants and other venues from hosting independent performers without paying a parasite collection society insane fees), banning competition is what they have managed to do. They want to do no less to the Internet.

This could only work for Counting Crows because they’re already a huge name. It’d never work for a no name like Jonathan Coulton.

If the labels want you to succeed, you’ll succeed. If not, then you can’t.

it’s great when an artist gets to make that decision and that CHOICE for themselves, what’s not great is when that choice is taken away from the artist without consent or compensation so that a company or corporation like google/the pirate bay etc can make all of the money and pay the artist nothing.

I’m pro-choice. I don’t know why you guys want to take both choices and earning away from artists against their will. That’s the issue.

Everyone should be working towards a FAIR and ETHICAL INTERNET instead of an EXPLOITATION ECONOMY that only benefits the 1% of the 1%…

If the internet is working out so well for musicians, why are there LESS musicians working professionally? “t-shirts and touring” is an ADMISSION that there is no money for musicians online and takes artists BACKWARDS at least 50 years… and you think that’s progress? Really?

With everything that’s happened, i have no trust now or in the future with any company who’s held the control on a market a for an extended period, seems like, everytime, the ones in charge are unwilling to evolve, which tends to lead to butt raping

I’d be more then HAPPY to suffer the growing pains and mistakes of an upstart media distribution company, if they show promise of becoming the first one with honest morals, a willingless to embrace technology, and above all else, actually base their business around the wants of their customers,

I mean, who else is in a better position to know what the customer wants, then the customers?

Its on the upstart to figure out how to turn what a customer wants, into something they can use to support their company
The wants that wouldn’t make business sense would be their time to shine, times when the company would be praised for innovation, in doing the same old thing in a “duh, why didn’t we think of doing it that” moment

To provide a customers wants, wants that are known and those that come from left field, AND figuring a way to profit from them without butt raping, would be their number one motto

In the current internet age, however CURRENT that may be, those are the things i will notice and gladly incourage

MOTTO
“Insert company name”. Innovation without the, well, you know, penetration

So your solution to one injustice (record labels) is to happily promote an even GREATER injustice in piracy?

wow, yeah, that makes sense… Too Funny the lengths you’ll go to, to rationalize illegal and unethical behavior.

about as much as theology as the “singularity”… are you ready to be uploaded! Be Saved! The Church of Singularity will Save Your Soul!

Greater? Ah yes, search engines are a greater injustice then the ones that literally STEAL the ACTUAL profits and rights of the musicians, the labels.

I guess we know who you work for.

Artists are mostly creative types anyway. They don’t really know what’s good for them or have any business sense.

So again, YOUR solution to one injustice (Search Engines) is to happily promote an even GREATER injustice by taking CHOICE away from artists and not paying them anything so a corporation can make 100% of the money?

Listen TAN,you already showed us who you work for, no need to drive the point further.

I work for ME. Why are you so threatened by the single voice of one independent artist who could care less about record labels and the RIAA.

Why are you proposing the solution to one injustice, is to promote an even larger injustice in piracy against MY WILL as the artist? Why do YOU feel you have the right to take MY CHOICE away from me so that companies and corporations can profit from the illegal exploitation of MY WORK!

I think it’s great for CC to make their choices, but why do you want to take my CHOICES away? Again, not very OPEN of you… unless you are just OPEN to supporting an anti-artist EXPLOITATION ECONOMY!

Lemme tell you a little story about an artist named Peter Gabriel. I had the fortune of eating dinner with him before a show at the Tower Theatre. He was complaining that he HAD TO TOUR so much because the record labels “didnt pay shit.”

I’m sure he told you all about how much money he was making and how happy he was to have his work illegally exploited by the pirate bay who keep all of his money and pay him NOTHING.

I support the artist choice to make the decisions that are right for them, not to have those decisions taken away without consent or compensation. I don’t really care about labels or the RIAA, but Peter has seen a lot more money from Labels than he’ll ever see from the pirate bay and other sites illegally exploiting his work and paying him absolutely NOTHING!

And why is it to you that the solution to one injustice (labels) would be an even greater injustice in piracy and the illegal exploitation of artists work for corporate profit?

Welcome to the Exploitation Economy… why are you so threatened by Artists for An Ethical Internet?

http://thetrichordist.wordpress.com/2012/05/03/roll-call-musicians-for-an-ethical-internet/

@ eejit – yes, yes you are an exploiter if you support the artist choice being taken away from them without consent or compensation to profit businesses like the pirate bay and google (to name a few).

truth hurts, sorry.

http://popuppirates.com/

Why is the response from these people always to try to educate us? You guys are in the wrong business.

Try focusing on getting us to buy stuff.

Clearly people are still buying stuff.

Mike, based on his writing style so far and what he’s saying “a clueless crank” may be what he is. I’m thinking, and this is pure speculation based on his writing style and what he’s said so far, that he’s the same AC who hijacked the El-P article awhile back. You know, “how much does the Pirate Bay pay artists = $0” and “show me the contracts that the Pirate Bay is offering artists, oh that’s right they aren’t offering any”. That guy.

Sorry Mike, that’s BS… the “market” is made of people. People who make decisions. People who chose to operate legally and ethically, or illegally and unethically.

YOU chose to take away the choice from artists because you HATE artists that disagree with you.

You HATE artists that don’t want their choices taken away from them by people like you promoting an even greater injustice than labels… you’re promoting the oldest business there is, exploiting artists for profit, and your double talk about the “Market”, guess what Mike, YOU are part of the market.

Any technology can be used legally or illegally, guns, cars, anything. When it’s used illegally, as in the case of Illegally Exploiting artists for profit, that should not be tolerated by a decent society.

But I guess you like promoting the whole sale exploitation of artists by removing their choices because you are a part of the Exploitation Economy. No wonder you don’t support a Fair and Ethical Internet, you only support one that profits massive corporate gatekeepers with billions in cash reserves.

It scares deeply to support an artists choice, because they might not chose what serves YOU! God forbid, Mike that you would support artists having an OPEN FREEDOM OF CHOICE! Instead of ONLY the choices you wish to grant them (sound familliar?). Hypocrisy anyone?

Artists have been embracing the internet for 10 years without labels, and they are worse off for it. Your lies and propaganda are wearing thin on the very people who have been giving you the benefit of the doubt…

If the internet is working so well for musicians, why are the so many less professional musicians working? Salon reports… 45% LESS professional musicians working…

http://www.salon.com/2012/04/22/no_sympathy_for_the_creative_class/

Are you suggesting all musicians who don’t follow your specific advice are morons and idiots? Really? That’s how you think of musicians? Either they agree with you or they’re idiots? You’re worse the the mafIAA that you despise and are doing more damage to professional artists careers as a result.

Good luck with your artist hating ways…

-signed- he who could care less about the RIAA/Labels and now you too…

here – you might like my album:
http://itunes.apple.com/us/artist/particle-salad/id6251774

are you going to buy it?

if it’s all true it shouldn’t be hard to dig up a citation online should it? Citation Please!

right, and uhm… it doesn’t change the that 98% of torrent activity is illegal does it… hmmmmm…

CwF+RtB is an admission that there’s no money of artists online, otherwise why would the solution be “t-shirts and touring?” hmmmmm… masters of the obvious are bad at their own math…

(not that the IFPI is any better a source than the RIAA/MPAA, they’re both terrible sources. But the point is that the article uses their own numbers so it’s hard for them to dispute their own numbers).

right, and uhm… it doesn’t change the that 98% of torrent activity is illegal does it… hmmmmm…

Maybe not. But, you did guarantee that I would never check out any of your music.

So….mission accomplished?

Lets further dig into the assertions on that site.

One of its sources for that site says

“RIAA has reported declining revenue in nine of the past 10 years, with album sales falling an average of 8% each year. “

http://money.cnn.com/2010/02/02/news/companies/napster_music_industry/

Wait, since when is the RIAA the only source of (digital) music sales. So their complaint is that their (digital) music sales are decreasing and so they want the government to do something about it. Since when is it the governments job to guarantee their sales revenue? It’s not, and it shouldn’t be. and just because their sales are decreasing doesn’t mean that overall sales are decreasing.

no, you are not the citation. you’re just more nonsense, if there’s truth to your claim you should be able to find a citation online to support it, if not, well… keep blowing hard…

so again, Citation Please!

Yet you want to stop perfectly legal services like Megaupload, that police their content, from existing and offering mostly legal content and then you complain when people turn to infringement and infringing sources for content.

What are your sources to show that Megaupload, for example, hosted mostly infringing content? You have none.

Yes, torrents do host a larger percentage of infringing content, but people will share a whole lot of perfectly legal content. but when the means to share legal content is banned for no good reason (more) people will turn to, and create, much more difficult to regulate methods of sharing content, those methods will become more efficient and have a larger support base and become more effective at distributing content without getting infringing users in trouble, and those methods will invariably have more infringing content. When people are denied access to reasonably priced content due to an artificial disruption in the content distribution channels more people will be willing to contribute more of their effort and resources towards circumventing the disruption in ways that are more difficult for governments to regulate.

A problem with decentralized sources of information (and this might be addressed in the future) is that they don’t allow the efficient promotion of legal, valuable, and relevant content (ie: content that search engines can rate the value and relevance of based on user input and remove infringing content). But when services that allow artists to better freely promote their work and consumers to freely (or more affordably) download it (legally) are terminated, like megaupload, the demand for content (at a cheaper price) doesn’t disappear despite an artificial reduction in supply and people will find alternative methods to distribute content, methods that are more difficult for the government to regulate and hence will have more infringing content.

Maybe… maybe not… maybe it’s just another poor rationalization… besides, I don’t care if people download illegally, I care if companies and corporations PROFIT from the illegal exploitation of my work… if you’re not profiting, I don’t care what you do… but I do care about The Pirate Bay and Google making money from my work and not paying me… they’re making money from my labor…

If they allowed me to opt out, I’d have no problem with them either. Just let me distribute my work the way I want too.

no one has the right to profit from my work without consent or compensation. when the pirate bay starts offer contracts and payments let me know.

until then they’re just more people ripping off artists, and worse than labels ever did.

Okay, first of all, that was a very rude way to speak to someone who has just engaged with you for the first time. I wanted to believe otherwise, but now I smell troll.

And second, my point was not to directly attack your argument but to present you with another possible side of the debate. (Generally, there are more than two.) My side is simply that my revenue was not taken from MPAA and RIAA member companies due to piracy; it was taken because the free alternatives were worth more to me, even if they had not been free. Big business and its profit models kill creativity. If you want proof, I will happily play my CD collection for you and show you the much wider variety of music available under indie labels and imports.

Fascinating! You kept speaking about The Pirate Bay and how they are ‘exploiting’ people, yet you fail to show any credible facts that they are doing just that. Also, when I speak of credible, I speak of facts that are not based upon RIAA/MPAA affiliated information, as we all have seen the “sources” they use and promote. I ask for this BECAUSE you will find very little to support that claim that has not been manipulated by those organizations.

As far as your comment “I’m sure he told you all about how much money he was making and how happy he was to have his work illegally exploited by the pirate bay who keep all of his money and pay him NOTHING. “
Please show any relevant factual information that really supports this.

FYI: This is what The Pirate Bay is really encouraging:
The Promo Bay

Just curious, how much of your music is played on the radio? I ask because before this gee whiz technology we like to call the internet, how else would you have been heard, would you have had the chance to be an artist back then?

I’m actually wondering, because yes, while some folks are taking your music for free, how many are finding out about you because of that? How many new people are discovering your music because of programs like Spotify and the like? Guess what, if folks like your music, they will buy it, if they don’t, then they’ll download and maybe keep it.

I’m sorry that folks are taking away from your lifestyle, but also remember that no one held a gun to your head and forced you to become this. If you want to play this game, you have to get into it and you take chances, just like everyone else. I can’t think of any job market where you are guaranteed success, you have to work and earn it.

If you are, then the best of luck to you. If not, then figure out why you aren’t doing well and get with the program. The only things guaranteed in this life are death and taxes, I don’t remember your or my success in life being one of those.

“How about you address ME and not the RIAA and not record labels?”

Ok, who are you and what have you done to make me want to pay for your music?

We already think you are nuts, as is evident by your posts. What’s telling is that all the other “musicians” here are willing to put their money where their mouth is, literally and prove they are who they claim to be by creating profiles or putting links to their music.

Some are even willing to listen to things and try and be reasonable and respectful, taking advice on how to better market themselves and what have you. Obscurity is a much bigger threat than any pirate.

I sincerely doubt you’re an actual musician though. I own several electric guitars and one acoustic guitar. I play for fun at home, mostly covering stuff for my own amusement or just writing my own songs when bored or when something just comes to me. I’m not a “professional” musician by any means, more of a hobbyist (with several day jobs, in fields I’m much more interested in; namely, technology), but I’m definitely more of a legitimate musician than you are.

no, your just removing my ability to make a living by supporting unethical and illegally exploitative practices.

you are supporting an exploitation economy rather than a fair and ethical internet.

why is it ok to you to rip off artists worse than the labels you criticize? that makes you worse than the labels… nice hypocrisy there…

thanks… and nonsense. there is no more entitlement in being an artist than starting a pizza parlor. a pizza parlor may fail, a band or album may fail. but people don’t expect to get free pizza, and they shouldn’t expect to get free music.

you might not like copyright law, but that’s why it exists, to protect artists, from the greed of corporations. old gate keepers controlled distribution, now distribution is free but gate keepers control the money.

there is no reason why there can not be a fair and ethical internet which supports artists rights without more, bigger and worse corporations ripping us off.

stealing from artists is an OLD OLD business, which is why copyright exists. all the people here that have a problem with the clowns at the RIAA and Labels need to take a long hard look in the mirror to realize if you illegally exploiting an artists work, or empowering others to do so, you are worse then the labels and the mafIAA you claim to despise.

why is your solution to one injustice (labels) an even larger injustice (piracy). both are exploitation but least one offers contracts and pays. I don’t really care about labels and I now care less about the likes of you who are worse.

ripping off artists is the same either way, and there’s nothing innovative about it.

“Big Business and it’s profit models kill creativity”

that’s funny because I’m not a big business I’m an artist and I’m not sure how these big businesses are killing my creativity except for the ones who are actually killing my bank account by illegally exploiting my work without compensation or consent.

The Big Businesses are the tech companies profiting from the illegal exploitation of my work. Why are you supporting an Exploitation Economy that ripps off artists WORSE than labels ever did instead of a fair and ethical internet?

I’m not a part of the “Industry” you hate. I’m not signed to a label, and I could give a rats ass about the RIAA. But you still don’t support my rights as an artist… you support corporations ripping me off instead… nice hypocrisy… go look in a mirror the next time you spout off your mafIAA talking points because none of that does anything to help actual independent artists who have NOTHING to do with the “industry”…

nice try, FAIL.

I love it how when you guys start to lose an argument you suddenly start posting as AC’s yourself… classic. I don’t care about your opinion, I care about your actions. You are the hypocrite if you think labels ripping off artists is not ok, but tech companies ripping off artists is ok?

so tell me again AC, who get’s to ripp off artists? is it everyone, but only labels and the RIAA are evil for doing so? or are you and the corporations also evil for ripping off bands WORSE than labels ever did?

pick a lie and stick to it.

still no citation, no truth, and no point… figures… you guys like to dish it out but can’t take it… anyone disagrees with you and it’s CITATION PLEASE, but when the same is asked of you… well then… somehow it’s disrespectful… yet another case of “do unto thee but not unto me”…

if there’s any truth in you claim online factual verification should not be difficult to find…

Citation Please!

I don’t know anything about the RIAA but what I do know is that musicians are worse off now than they were ten years ago by buying into a lot of this crap… “t-shirts and touring” is an ADMISSION that there is no money for artists online… so pick a lie and stick to it…

why do you support tech companies ripping off artists for profit worse than labels ever did? is everyone who rips off artists evil, or just the labels and the RIAA?

why do you support an Exploitation Economy of ripping off artists instead of an ethical internet? What’s in it for you? You really need music so bad that you have to exploit the labor of other human beings to get it?

tech slumlords unite to ripp off artists and illegally exploit them… why do you hate artists so much?

do you have a source that shows piracy is the decline?

citation please!

“I released an album last year that charted in Billboard top 40, alot of people wanted it, a lot more wanted to (and did) exploit my work illegally for profit. “

[citation needed]

“so you believe you have the right to exploit artists worse than record labels ever did?”

Calling it exploitation doesn’t make it so and it distorts the purpose of IP. IP laws do not exist to prevent artists from being exploited, they only exist to serve the public interest. To say otherwise distorts their true intent and gives me more reason to want to abolish them.

IP holders are not entitled to a monopoly privilege and you can not exploit someone by taking away something they were never entitled to to begin with. IP laws are a privilege provided for by the government, these privileges do not exist outside of government, and my right to copy is a right that exists outside of government.

Freely copying as I please is a natural right that exists outside of government. I value this right. For the government to take this right away from the public against the public interest exploits the public. Service providers are being exploited by being forced to act in the sole interests of IP holders (ie: by policing content) just to provide them with an unowed privilege. These service providers bring these costs back down to users. In the end, service providers and users get exploited through higher prices, worse/less services, having services like Megaupload getting shut down, less innovation, fewer features, higher prices, etc… all because of a corrupt government-industrial complex that does everything in its power to exploit everyone out of their natural rights just to subsidize IP extremists. That’s exploitation. and I want it to stop. Copying is my right, preventing me from doing it is exploitation, and I am sick and tired of being exploited. No more.

Why is ‘piracy’ a greater injustice? How does it do more harm to artists? Do you have anything to back up your suppositions?

I’m still waiting for proof that piracy hurts you financially instead of promotes your work. The loss of a potential sale is not the same as the labels pocketing the bulk of the money for themselves and claiming that a smash hit best selling album makes no money at all. Can we at least be honest about that? Or do you have more lies and half-truths and ad hominems to spew at me?

and this only hurts artists. It gives them fewer content distribution choices.

IP extremists take away broadcasting and cable as a promotional choice through wrongfully granted government established broadcasting and cableco monopolies. On top of that they take away their ability to get their music heard in most restaurants because many restaurants are unable to pay parasitic third party collection societies fees and are afraid to host independent performers, who play independent music, because they still could get threatened with very expensive lawsuits and sued thanks to a very one sided penalty structure.

Our system is so bad that bakeries are afraid to allow children to draw custom pictures on their birthday cakes because they may draw Spongebob which is infringement and could get the bakeries sued.

and they are making every effort to turn the Internet into the same plutocracy that they have managed to turn everything outside the Internet into (ie: by shutting down Megaupload), a system where content must go through an exploitative monopolist gatekeeper to get distributed, a gatekeeper that takes the IP privileges away from artist and exploits both the artists and the public. It’s extortion, the government has wrongfully granted them monopoly privileges over information distribution, if content creators want their content distributed, they must sacrifice their IP privileges, or else face not getting their content distributed and hence failing.

How is this giving artists a choice? It’s not. It’s restricting their choices.

I am all for giving artists more choices. Stop putting restrictions on, and wrongfully taking down, service providers, like Megauploads so that these service providers can provide artists with more and better distribution options and features.

Abolish government established broadcasting and cableco monopolies so that artists can get their content distributed over these channels on a more level playing field.

Abolish IP’s one sided penalty structure so that collection societies that attempt to prevent restaurants and other venues from hosting independent performers without paying them a fee quickly get severely fined on summary judgement with fines far exceeding infringement damages.

This will give artists more choices so that they can better distribute their content without going through a monopolist gatekeeper and giving up their copy protection privileges.

IP extremists do not want to give artists more choices, they only want to restrict their choices, which, outside the Internet, is what they have managed to do.

Trolling. No one said piracy was declining, so your cries for citation are ludicrous.

>I love it how when you guys start to lose an argument you suddenly start posting as AC’s yourself… classic.

I’ve always been posting under AC, regardless of the argument and regardless of whether you think I’m losing. I’m not sure what your point is aside from trying to point out that posting as an AC is the sign of losing an argument. So what does that make you who is posting as an AC?

>I don’t care about your opinion, I care about your actions. You are the hypocrite if you think labels ripping off artists is not ok, but tech companies ripping off artists is ok?

You don’t care about what I think but then go on to allude that if I think in a certain way, I’m a hypocrite? No, you’re the one who needs to pick a lie and stick to it. You’re all over the place here.

>so tell me again AC, who get’s to ripp off artists? is it everyone, but only labels and the RIAA are evil for doing so? or are you and the corporations also evil for ripping off bands WORSE than labels ever did?

This was not mentioned at all in my original response. The only thing I’ve mentioned is that I, at least, have no intention of “ripping you off”. Neither will I make myself an accessory to this, because I have no intent of obtaining access to whatever you produce, legally or otherwise.

Who’s a corporation? The Pirate Bay, whom if I’m not wrong is who you’re trying to rail against, is not a corporation. Google at best provides directions to whoever asks for them. The labels and the RIAA not only rip off artists, but claim that it’s perfectly legal behaviour and insist for heightened enforcement to continue doing so with no regard for artists’ welfare.

Now, that’s evil.

Still no citations?

>but people don’t expect to get free pizza, and they shouldn’t expect to get free music.

No one expects to get free music. You’re refusing to address the point Josh brought up. If you don’t make your product available by legal means people will either get the product by less legal options, or go without. Either way, you don’t get paid.

>you might not like copyright law, but that’s why it exists, to protect artists, from the greed of corporations.

If that’s the intent of copyright law, then copyright law is doing a horrible job. Aside from the recent Megaupload and Pirate Bay cases the most significantly mentioned cases involving copyright infringement are targeted at singular users. Most of which (Tanya Andersen, Sarah Seabury Ward, Marie Lindor, Larry Scantlebury) were innocent. Your “greed of corporations” claim is a joke.

>all the people here that have a problem with the clowns at the RIAA and Labels need to take a long hard look in the mirror to realize if you illegally exploiting an artists work, or empowering others to do so, you are worse then the labels and the mafIAA you claim to despise.

Why, because the man on the street demanded levies on blank media, brought charges against people based on unverified IP harvesting methods, paid for laws that would incriminate almost everyone and called everyone a criminal scumbag? For someone who claims to be an independent artist and have no love for the RIAA, you seem to have much more to rant against normal people.

>both are exploitation but least one offers contracts and pays.

Are you really not aware of cases where artists have to fight labels to get their royalties back? If you’re thinking this is some one-off phenomenon that happens to nobodies, Eminem and “Weird Al” Yankovic are amongst this group. The offering of contracts adds nothing to this argument aside from saying, “I will rip you off, and I have this sheet of paper to prove it.”

>I don’t really care about labels and I now care less about the likes of you who are worse.

Again, for someone who claims to be nonchalant you’re finding bones to pick with everybody. I listen to the few CDs I have occasionally for my music or peruse the local classical music radio station. I have no intention of “exploiting” anyone, and you being a broken record insisting that I am somehow ruining the lives of artists is absolutely disingenuous.

“so you believe you have the right to exploit artists worse than record labels ever did?”

There is nothing I could do to match what the labels have done.

“what corporations… google for one… “

Google have given me far more than you ever could, for free, so you’ll fail if you play the ‘Evil Google’ sympathy card.

Thanks for ignoring the point I made though. Who are you again?

LoL
The only exploitative practices is the practice of monopoly.

What you call illegal was legal not so long ago, cease and desist with the authority falacy.

I’m not paying you over and over and over again for the same crap, it is not happening, I am not paying you when I go take a dump and hear your “music” crap, I am not paying you if a rip 3 notes from your music an use it on my own, I am not paying you when I play “your” music.

I would pay you if I was going to see you perform, I would pay you if I bought merch from you otherwise you have zero rights to demand payment and if you don’t like it that is your problem, not mine.

I also am not going to let you threaten the foundations of democracy trying to protect your own self interests that only serve yourself and it is not good for anybody else.

“Artists” don’t have a right or choice to inflict a monopoly on society, it is just not going to happen.

They also have no business trying to dismantle democracy for their own selfish self interests.

If you can’t make a living find another job, I am sure there are plenty of people who can work with the current social norms and restrictions to make a living.

(I’m the same anon as above but have lost my cookies, so I’ll probably show up under a different icon.)

Okay, first of all, lose the “FAIL” mantra. It’s not getting you anywhere.

Then realize that I have never downloaded anything of yours, nor intend to, because I don’t download music. When you stop yelling at me for doing things I’m not doing, I’ll probably be happier to talk to you.

Third, I actually don’t know anyone who has downloaded your music, or at least who has done so and recommended it to me. That might be more of a problem for you than the downloading itself.

Fourth, I know of no corporations that made big bucks directly off of torrents. Perhaps some trackers make decent cash – I wouldn’t know – but they tend to be small shops, not big corporations. Certainly nothing on the level of EMI et al.

Your overall treatment of myself and others in this thread who disagree with you with specific evidence (which you tend to counter with random wails of “citation please!” or “hypocrisy!”) has convinced me of the opposite of your arguments. Congratulations. I have no more compunction about looking in the mirror than I did 5 minutes ago, and even less respect for your position.

While you may not be signed to a label, your whimpers of “rights as an artist” are cookie-cutter and unconvincing. I’ve had stuff plagiarized, but I don’t think I ever kicked up so much fuss as you have in just this one thread.

Nice non-substantive, non-response…must be all out of spin…there’s only so many ways you can try to rationalize to yourself that wrongful of trying to dismantle democracy to secure a granted monopoly that should never exist in the first place.

When you can show us how piracy deprives you of a market we talk otherwise you are just another buffoon.

You can sell the music you perform and record, you cannot tell other what they should or not do with what they bought, you should not have rights to extort money from business that paid once for a product and force them to keep paying it forever, you cannot tell others they can’t copy it, that is not for you to decide it is not your place.

You are a lying, sleazy, scumbag, go back to the troll hole you crawled out of.

” but people don’t expect to get free pizza, and they shouldn’t expect to get free music”

So, everytime ‘your’ song is played, you have to play it live and spend money on resources?

…fascinating captain, there’s so much BS around here you need wings to stay above it…

Citation Please! I’m going to have to remember all the reasons why not to provide back up the next time one of you guys asks for it, I’ll just link back to this thread…

you got nuthin’…

man – I love it when you guys start censoring opposing points of view, what are you afraid of? Not very OPEN of you, but it is very SOPA of you… nice hypocrisy!

“”Artists” don’t have a right or choice to inflict a monopoly on society, it is just not going to happen.”

BS, the UN says otherwise.

https://thetrichordist.wordpress.com/2012/05/13/the-human-rights-of-artists/

and uhm… Lessig challenge copyright on constitutional grounds and got thumped…twice…ouch…

http://thetrichordist.wordpress.com/2012/05/08/larry-lessig-is-wrong/

you’re on the wrong side of this, why is it so difficult to support an ethical internet for all citizens, including artists? those seeking exclusions (not very OPEN of you) are doing so because they are seeking profits by ripping off artists for in the Exploitation Economy…

Do you want to be Exploitative or do you want to be Ethical? The choice is yours, but the law is on the side of Ethics…

you just keep rationalizing your support of exploiting artists illegally without consent of compensation. when you can actually, rationally realize what you are doing is WORSE than what the labels have done to artists maybe we can have a conversation.

the solution to one injustice (labels) is not a greater injustice in piracy. which does profit corporations and companies including and not limited to google and the pirate bay…

if you truly so naive as to not understand how this works, this will help you… it’s called “advertising”… and it’s great to monetize against content when you don’t actually have to pay the creation/production of it…

that’s called Exploitation, and it’s really easy to understand.

http://popuppirates.com/

mike, stop lying. You support the pirate bay illegally exploiting my work for profit and paying me nothing, or are you actually coming around and realizing that is an unfair and unethical exploitation of my work? Do tell…

“No need for luck, copyright is optional today, in case you didn’t notice.”

keep saying that to yourself… there are no monsters here… there are no monsters here…

what I notice is that if you actually believed that you wouldn’t need to spend time here posting trying to convince me of it…

lessig lost TWICE at the highest courts… how do you really think this story is going to end? the wild west wasn’t wild forever and neither will the internet be…

and why are you so invested in exploiting artists illegally for profit when you could be supporting an ethical internet for all citizens, including artists? not very OPEN of you, and the people seeking exclusions are seeking to profit from those exclusions… as always, follow the money and it leads back to google and big tech.

the old gate keepers controlled access to distribution, the new gate keepers control access to money. you’ve traded one monolithic corporate gate keeper for another but don’t even realize how badly you are being played.

no, you hate all artists that disagree with you. I’m just the only one in front of you right now. but techdirt community hates all artists who don’t want to get ripped off by tech companies and corporations WORSE than we got ripped off by labels…

get hip man, you are on the wrong side… don’t let the silence fool you. the mass of artists are taking notes, you can only fool people for so long. you are the new labels, you are the new RIAA. you are the ones who don’t want us artists to get paid. you are the ones hating on artists and exploiting us, and we’re figuring it out after a decade of giving you the benefit of the doubt.

the long silent army of artists no now who the enemy is… and it’s the people exploiting us WORSE than labels and for PROFIT.

Fans are gonna share, that’s cool, but NO ONE has the right to illegally exploit my work without my consent or compensation. NO ONE.

So you can make this about ME, but you are stabbing the toes of a sleeping giant… Buckle Up, the word is out.

I care about being exploited and you need to know the truth. What you are doing in supporting the pirate bay and those like them, you are support an Exploitation Economy ripping off artists WORSE than the labels EVER did. EVER.

I don’t care about labels or the RIAA, I can about not being exploited. You are the new label. You are the new RIAA. You are the new exploiters of artists. You are stabbing the toes of sleeping giant and you don’t even know it yet.

Why do YOU want to support the illegal exploitation of artists that is WORSE than the labels? You are not a hero for supporting a bigger and WORSE system of ripping off artists.

So how does it feel to be the one now exploiting artists? Does that make you feel good? Are you proud of yourself? Is that what you say to people to be “cool” about how you support the Exploitation Economy that ripps off artists illegally and for profit? Seriously?

Wow… arrrg matey… you get to empower a system WORSE the the labels and the riaa… hypocrite…

well played… but I am the citation (or at least that’s what you guys say when I keep asking you for one). nothing says you have to believe me, but then again I don’t need to prove anything to you… you just keep going on, supporting a system that exploits artists illegally and for profit… you are stabbing the toes of a sleeping giant and you don’t even know it.

>no, you hate all artists that disagree with you. I’m just the only one in front of you right now.

We don’t “hate”, but your insistence that all of us are assholes worse than the RIAA is getting extremely tiresome. Especially considering that when we say so, you insist that we’re lying.

>get hip man, you are on the wrong side… don’t let the silence fool you. the mass of artists are taking notes, you can only fool people for so long. you are the new labels, you are the new RIAA.

When Techdirt starts pushing for censorship laws, demanding that the citizenry pays a blanket tax on storage media, or suing thousands of John Does in joinder while demanding settlement fees, you might have a point. Until then, you’re making completely baseless attacks.

>the long silent army of artists no now who the enemy is… and it’s the people exploiting us WORSE than labels and for PROFIT.

Funnily enough, for someone who claims to be working independent of labels you’ve got a very big beef with the man on the street. Why don’t you already work with labels if you claim that the general public is ripping you off harder than the labels ever will?

>Fans are gonna share, that’s cool, but NO ONE has the right to illegally exploit my work without my consent or compensation. NO ONE.

You are full of it. The Pirate Bay is a medium for sharing and the suggestion that they make profits off your back is stupid. If The Pirate Bay never existed and fans shared through email, would you claim that email providers were illegally exploiting your work? If fans shared through swapping disk drives, would you claim that corporations like SanDisk were illegally exploiting your work? If fans shared through sharing CDs, would you claim that CD manufacturers were illegally exploiting your work?

>So you can make this about ME, but you are stabbing the toes of a sleeping giant… Buckle Up, the word is out.

So, when we ask you for citations it’s because we’re losing the argument, but when you ask us for citations and we provide you with them, you still mock us? For someone who claims that there is “a sleeping giant”, you’re having a hard time to come up with some names. But hey, continue to provide us with nothing, because that’s all we’re going to work with.

don’t kid yourself, there’s nothing ethical about illegally exploiting artists for profit. funny that your conversation with peter gabriel happen BEFORE you could ask him his thoughts on having his work illegally exploited for profit by a system WORSE than the labels.

You are the new label system. You are the new RIAA. You are the people who have been lying to artists and exploiting them. You are empowering the Exploitation Economy ripping off artists… and artists are learning that YOU are doing it.

It may just be me today, but you are stabbing the toes of a sleeping giant and you don’t even know it.

Do you feel good knowing you are exploiting artists and supporting a system WORSE then the labels and the RIAA?

anyone can chart in billboard… good lord, I charted a self released album, billboard charting is completely agnostic, it’s based on soundscan sales which are now largely dominated by sales from itunes… you need to educate yourself before you start calling people liars…

no myth heathcliff… anti-trust what? buckle up… skippy…

http://popuppirates.com/

I’m sure google has given you more than I have, I’m not allowing, enabling, or profiting from the illegal exploitation of artists worst than the labels and the RIAA ever did…

and as for who’s enriched your life, If you’ve never been touched by music, you may have a point, but I suspect that’s not true. you life, like most people has been enriched by a professional creative class which you are now systematically and methodically attempting to destroy through the illegally exploitation of their work for profit to corporations…, yes, like google and the pirate bay.

http://popuppirates.com/

you can to be support the Exploitation Economy, or you can chose to support an ethical internet that supports the rights of all citizens, including artists. those seeking exclude artists (not very OPEN of them) are seeking to do so for the purpose of profit.

you are stabbing the toes of a sleeping giant and you don’t even know it. you are the new labels. you are the new RIAA. how does it feel to be the exploiter and to know that artists know you are exploiting them?

where’s yours?

you guys are too funny… at techdirt “truth” = “troll” … LOL… gently whisper to yourself… there are no monsters here… there are no monsters here…

I love your get out of jail free card, for the countless thousands of artists who are failing from your half baked methods must be doing so because they are doing it wrong… can’t argue with that logic… By that logic every band that failed during the pre-piracy era that didn’t succeed was also doing it wrong…

no, the simple truth is Mike, all things being equal the simplist answer is usually the correct one, which in this case is very simply, YOU ARE WRONG.

A musician who makes poor decisions does not have to be an asshole. Similarly not every asshole is a musician who makes poor decisions.

If you choose to be both, it’s really none of anybody’s concern. Nor is it anyone’s responsibility to not criticise you for your choice.

“1) Recognising that something happens is not the same as endorsing it. ”

great, so here’s your opportunity to NOT endorse the illegally exploitation of artists work without consent or compensation. do you endorse what the pirate bay is doing to artists, or not?

simple question, should have a simple answer.

than don’t censor the comments… it’s that simple… why do you get to decide what should and shouldn’t be allowed? that not very OPEN of you…

Wow, I knew you guys hated musicians, but I had no idea you actually hated them this much…

—
“I’m not paying you over and over and over again for the same crap, it is not happening, I am not paying you when I go take a dump and hear your “music” crap, I am not paying you if a rip 3 notes from your music an use it on my own, I am not paying you when I play “your” music.”
—

I can see why you would think Ethics is hilarious when you are supporting an Exploitation Economy by ripping off artists without consent or compensation – or would you like to show me the contracts and payments the artists are getting from the pirate bay?

Can you read, Sparky?

“Yet you want to stop perfectly legal services like Megaupload, that police their content, from existing and offering mostly legal content and then you complain when people turn to infringement and infringing sources for content.”

if that were true there would not have been a raid, what are you going to say when they are criminally convicted?

maybe it’s not up to the RIAA…

http://thetrichordist.wordpress.com/2012/06/05/artists-know-thy-enemy/