Current Insight Community Cases

The Importance Of Skilled Immigrants To The American Economy

Help A New Kind of Music Label Revolutionize The Industry

Mandates To Buy American Should Be More Carefully Considered

Navigating The New Business World After This Recession

How To Prevent Copyright From Interfering With Innovation

Shut Us Up

-- For Only $100 Million

Brought to you by Floor64 and the Techdirt crew.

stories filed under: "concerts"
Legal Issues

Legal Issues

by Mike Masnick


Filed Under:
big screens, britney spears, concerts, justin timerlake, los angeles lakers, patents, pussycat dolls



Britney Spears, Justin Timberlake, Others Sued For Patent Infringement For Appearing Larger Than Life

from the shrink-a-bit,-please dept

Every time you think you've seen the most ridiculous patent infringement lawsuit out there, you only need to wait a day or two before another, more ridiculous, one shows up. The latest is that Britney Spears, Justin Timberlake, the Los Angeles Lakers and the band the Pussycat Dolls have all been sued for patent infringement. Seriously. The patent in question (6669346) is for a very large display system for a performance. Basically, it's for the sort of massive screens used at various concerts (and apparently, some sporting events). Seeing as I doubt that Spears, Timberlake or the Pussycat Dolls built these screens themselves, shouldn't there be some sort of patent exhaustion issue here, where (if there's any actual infringement, which seems questionable enough) the liable parties should be whoever made these giant screesn?

Of course the lawsuit was filed in East Texas, and it's amusing to see the reasoning for this: according to the lawsuit, all of the performers likely had residents from East Texas who attended some of their concerts, and thus it makes sense. As for the Lakers, well, their games are broadcast in East Texas (even if the screen in question is in LA and probably not of much use or concern to those watching at home in East Texas). So, apparently, these days you don't just have to be an innovative company to get sued for patent infringement. You can just be a rockstar or a sports team...

37 Comments | Leave a Comment..

 
(Mis)Uses of Technology

(Mis)Uses of Technology

by Mike Masnick


Filed Under:
concerts, music, platform

Companies:
live nation



Live Nation Working To Turn Website Into More Of A Platform

from the this-could-be-interesting dept

Live Nation gets a bit of a bad reputation for some of the way it handles large stadium shows, but of the "big" music industry players, it's actually one of the more interesting and better positioned companies out there, because it really has aligned itself to benefit from the sale of scarcities, rather than the sale of music itself. It does have some legacy issues, such as huge commitments to some large acts and a distracting merger fight with Ticketmaster, but the company is still worth watching. It's been trying to do more and more with its website, to make it something of a destination/e-commerce play, and its latest move is to make it more of a platform. Both artists and fans will be able to upload concert footage, as well as various community features (wikis, reviews, Twitter streams, fan Q&As and more). It increasingly seems like Live Nation is trying to enable a platform where fans and artists can connect, and on which fans can buy (mainly concert tickets, but other things as well). It's a smart move, but I wonder whether or not Live Nation ends up competing with a band's own web presence. What could be cool is if Live Nation also makes it so an artist can integrate many of these features into their own site as well. In the meantime, though, we're once again seeing why now is a great time to be a musician. There are so many different services that help enable artists to both connect with fans and set up business models.

3 Comments | Leave a Comment..

 
Culture

Culture

by Mike Masnick


Filed Under:
concerts, lotus, pay what you want



Another Band Tries Pay What You Want Concerts

from the with-incentives dept

Pete alerts us to the news that the band Lotus is trying out a pay what you want tour. They apparently worked out a deal with Ticketweb to basically let people pick prices anywhere from $1 to $20 (no $0 option). They've also tried to put an incentive in place to pay more: if you spend more than $15, you get free downloads from the band. It's another interesting model, though I'm not sure it makes as much sense as some other models. Again, concert tickets are a scarce good, and doing pay what you want on a scarce good is a lot riskier. Still, it's yet another experiment that'll be interesting to follow. I think I like K-OS's experiment with letting people pay what they want on the way out of a concert better. Still, experiments are good, so it's nice to see another one.

7 Comments | Leave a Comment..

 
Culture

Culture

by Mike Masnick


Filed Under:
business models, concerts, experiments, free, k-os, terry mcbride

Companies:
nettwerk



Nettwerk Testing Its 'Pay On The Way Out' Concerts

from the be-interested-in-seeing-how-that-works-out... dept

Terry McBride, of Nettwerk, an interesting label based in Canada, has been running a whole series of interesting experiments that show how a modern record label can still be useful. When I saw McBride speak at Midem earlier this year, he mentioned an experiment he was running, which I never really wrote about. However, Nancy Baym points out that it's starting to get some press. The idea is a free concert to attend... where you're asked to pay what you think it was worth on the way out. Nettwerk artist k-os is doing this, setting up a "Karma table" where you can also get a free copy of k-os' "fan-mixed" album. This was the other experiment Nettwerk is running: rather than letting fans remix the album, they released all the stems so that fans could mix the album itself -- and then they're releasing both the best fan-mixed versions and the professionally mixed versions.

It's an interesting experiment, and it will be worth watching (especially if McBride is willing share any of the actual results). It does seem like a risky move, because you're taking on the whole upfront cost of putting on the event -- giving away a scarcity, rather than an infinite good. However, depending on how the rest of it is structured they could end up making some decent money out of it. I'm just not sure it's really the best model, since giving away the scarcity for free gets much costlier much faster.

23 Comments | Leave a Comment..

 
Culture

Culture

by Mike Masnick


Filed Under:
concerts, music industry, recording industry



Live Concerts Can't Support The Existing Recording Industry... But Did Anyone Ever Say They Would?

from the one-piece-of-many... dept

Whenever we talk about the importance of freeing the infinite and charging for the scarce when it comes to music, we end up having people try to simplify that down to "make money on concerts." That's never been true, however. While we do think performances are one scarcity that is worth exploring, and which has proven to be quite lucrative for many performers -- both large and small -- we've never thought that live concerts alone would suffice as the business model. There are other, more important scarcities, such as access and attention, that can be much more lucrative. Still, it's worth exploring how well live concerts alone could do in replacing recording industry revenue, and in a long (80 pages) and thorough paper by Mark Schulz (a law professor), exactly that exploration occurs (thanks to the anonymous reader who sent this in). It's well worth reading, as there's plenty of food for thought. Basically, he points out that free file sharing can help many artists in numerous ways, but he's not convinced that touring alone can help. He goes through a pretty thorough explanation for why touring alone isn't enough -- including the fact that a disproportionate amount of the profits from live performances tends to go to a rather small number of artists, just as the number of musicians creating music is exploding.

While I think the paper is worth reading, and makes a ton of good points, there are a few problems with it. First, I don't know many people who seriously think that touring alone would be the new business model. Most people think that it's one component among a variety of new business models that are available. And, indeed, Schulz is good about mentioning some of the alternative additional business models out there. But, then he sort of ignores them in going back to discussing how touring alone isn't enough. It's sort of a nice strawman, but it's besides the point, since almost no one really believes that touring alone is the model. Then, there's the issue of extrapolating out from the existing "touring" market, most of which really looks at bigger tours, rather than at the market for local bands playing local shows. And, while he does include a discussion on making the live performance business "more productive," I'm not sure he really takes into account some of what's been happening -- such as the efforts Jonathan Coulton puts into building up a critical mass in a certain area before parachuting in for a live performance. The ability to do such things only will grow over time, and not enough attention is paid to them. In fact, we're already seeing live music bring in more money than recorded music in some markets.

So, while it's a very good paper, and I agree with the overall strawman conclusion (touring alone isn't enough to replace the entire recording industry revenue), I'm not sure that's meaningful or really tells the full story. Touring does and will continue to work incredibly well for some bands, it will be a component of other bands' business models, and it won't be a part of others'. But there are plenty of different business models that can deal with that.

49 Comments | Leave a Comment..

 
Culture

Culture

by Mike Masnick


Filed Under:
business models, concerts, fans, jane's addiction, music, nine inch nails, trent reznor



Reznor Does It Again: Releases Free EP Of Unreleased Tracks From NIN, Jane's Addiction To Support Tour

from the go-get-'em dept

Trent Reznor sure has a way of releasing new experiments just before I'm about to give a presentation about him. He did it right before my MidemNet case study about his experiments, and now that I'm getting ready to an updated (and expanded!) version of the presentation at next week's Leadership Music Digital Summit, Reznor has launched a new website called NIN|JA 2009 in support of the new tour Nine Inch Nails is doing with Jane's Addiction (and Street Sweeper). The site has a streaming playlist from all three bands, along with the ability to download an entirely free EP of unreleased tracks (two from each band) in exchange for your email. And, not surprisingly, the page lets you get more info on the tour.

It's not particularly different than the release of The Slip, but shows that he's continued to combine these two factors of connecting with fans (often via free music) and immediately giving them a real reason to buy. Oh yeah -- and he still did it in a fun way for the fans. Last night, on Twitter, he alerted people that the site would be going live today, but then had fun with it this morning -- giving people a 3 minute countdown following by a bit of joking around, first backing it up to 5 minutes, saying someone had kicked the plug out of the wall, then geekily pretending to be a clueless Windows user:

  • trent_reznor: So... anybody know what it means when your PC's screen goes all blue and wont do anything? Give me a sec here.
  • trent_reznor: An exception has occured at 0028:C11B3ADC in VxD DiskTSD(03) 000016660. It may be possible to continue normally. ????
  • trent_reznor: Come on, people - you know me better than that.
And with that, the site launched. Time to go update the presentation...

33 Comments | Leave a Comment..

 
Culture

Culture

by Mike Masnick


Filed Under:
business models, concerts, downloads, music, no doubt



No Doubt: Buy A Concert Ticket, Download All Our Songs

from the the-music-is-free.... dept

Slowly, but surely, more bands are starting to figure it out: the music is free. Whether they want to believe it or not, the actual music is free, so you might as well get it out there and then focus on selling scarcities. The latest example (which a ton of you have sent in), is the band No Doubt, who is giving away their entire catalog of music as a download, for folks who buy certain concert tickets. Now, obviously, if someone wants, they could go download all that music already, but effectively the band is admitting that the music is free, and the money is in the scarcity of concert tickets: so if you're going to pay for that scarcity, why not make sure that the fan knows all your music?

53 Comments | Leave a Comment..

 
Culture

Culture

by Mike Masnick


Filed Under:
business models, concerts, music, nine inch nails, trent reznor, video



Reznor 'Leaks' 400 GB Of High Def Concert Footage

from the keep-it-up dept

Trent Reznor is making it awfully difficult for me to finish the presentation I'm giving about him next week at MidemNet, because he keeps on doing stuff that should be mentioned in that presentation (I may have to ask the MidemNet folks for more time!). The latest is a post on the NIN.com site (which, annoyingly, doesn't have permalinks for his posts -- though others repost it in the forums on the site) saying:

The internet is full of surprises these days.
I was contacted by a mysterious, shadowy group of subversives who SOMEHOW managed to film a substantial amount (over 400 GB!) of raw, unedited HD footage from three separate complete shows of our Lights in the Sky tour. Security must have been lacking at these shows because the quality of the footage is excellent.

If any of you could find a LINK to that footage I'll bet some enterprising fans could assemble something pretty cool.

Oh yeah, you didn't hear this from me.

posted by trent reznor at 12:56pm
It's stuff like this that makes fans love Reznor that much more. While bands like Radiohead tried to get people to pay just to remix their songs, Reznor makes it fun to be a fan. As the link above to the forum notes, the content is now available via BitTorrent, and everyone at NIN headquarters is looking forward to what comes out of it -- though, they point out that with so much high def video, it's really mainly targeted at expert users first, and amateurs are probably better off waiting a bit until other copies are made available in easier to handle formats.

Funny to see this in contrast to how Warner Music and the other record labels are dealing with online videos, where they demand money for every usage, pissing off the very musicians they're supposed to represent. Once again, Reznor is leading the way. I'm just hoping he takes a little time off so that I can get this presentation done and not have it be out of date on the day of the presentation.

46 Comments | Leave a Comment..

 
Culture

Culture

by Mike Masnick


Filed Under:
concerts, music industry, recording industry



Once Again, Concert Business Sets New Records

from the well,-look-at-that... dept

While people who keep thinking that the "recording industry" is actually the "music industry" keep insisting that the business is in serious trouble, plenty of evidence of the actual market suggests this is a great time to be in the "music business." More musicians are making and distributing music than at any time in the past thanks to much cheaper means of production and distribution. And, as Rose M. Welch points out, the concert business continues to thrive, setting new records yet again. Last year we noted that 2007 was the best ever year for the live music business, and it appears that 2008 surpassed 2007 by 13%, even in the midst of one of the biggest economic downturns most of us have ever lived through. There is some concern about how the economy will impact 2009, but even if concerts decrease next year, it will be because of the overall economy, not because of any problem with "internet piracy," which has actually done plenty to help drive larger audiences to concerts by increasing the fanbases of many musicians.

31 Comments | Leave a Comment..

 
Predictions

Predictions

by Mike Masnick


Filed Under:
360 deals, business models, concert promotions, concerts, madonna

Companies:
live nation



Can Concert Promoters Become The New Record Labels?

from the time-to-find-out dept

A little over a year ago, the recording industry was surprised to learn that Madonna wasn't signing a new record label contract, but instead was signing a deal with Live Nation, a big concert promoter, to handle pretty much everything having to do with her business, including releasing new CDs. The WSJ Magazine is running a long feature story about Live Nation, its founder and its ongoing strategy, wondering if it's the new business model for the recording industry. Basically, the guy behind Live Nation knows that there's good money in concert promoting, but that the margins are low. So, he's betting on a few of these "360 deals" where he gets a much larger margin on all other aspects of the business.

It's an interesting strategy that appears to be a step in the right direction, but it's unclear if it really is the future of the industry. Live Nation's strategy seems pretty risky. It involves huge upfront payments for a small number of star performers (whose older, more well-known, music is still under the copyright of earlier labels). It also doesn't seem to do much to embrace new technologies and distribution methods. Instead, it's just this guy making a grab for some big names, and trying to consolidate all their sources of revenue, taking a cut of each one. There's something to be said for that, but it would probably work better in combination with newer technologies and music distribution means -- and without those huge upfront costs that may sink the whole operation.

10 Comments | Leave a Comment..

 
Culture

Culture

by Mike Masnick


Filed Under:
business models, concerts, fans, music, nine inch nails, trent reznor



Trent Reznor Continues To Show Different Ways To Connect With Fans

from the send-'em-on-a-treasure-hunt dept

Back when Trent Reznor was still signed to Universal Music, he tested out his own form of a promotional campaign for his latest album: he started hiding USB keys with songs off of the album in the bathroom at his various concerts. Fans would find the USB keys, bring them home and upload the songs -- making it into a huge event, generating much more interest around the album. Now that he's independent and testing out all sorts of interesting business model experiments, he's also doing plenty to connect directly to his biggest fans. Take, for example, this story in the LA Times about Reznor hiding concert tickets around Los Angeles, under rocks and in drainpipes, and then putting up coordinates and clues on the Nine Inch Nails website, sending fans racing across the city to see if they can find the free tickets. While it may be a little silly, it is yet another way for Reznor to build up a really loyal fanbase. He's making being a fan fun. Sure, it's not for everyone, but it's certainly adding value to the "true fans" that support Reznor.

37 Comments | Leave a Comment..

 
Culture

Culture

by Mike Masnick


Filed Under:
business models, cd sales, concerts, copyright, lyle lovett, music, promotion



Lyle Lovett: Albums Sold? 4.6 Million. Money Made From Album Sales? $0

from the business-models-in-action dept

Every time we talk about music industry business models, we get some folks who have to chime in with some claim about how musicians should be able to sell their music just like they have for years. Of course, the truth is that it's quite rare for any musician to make money from selling their albums, as has been pointed out for years. The latest to make that point is Lyle Lovett. Reader Rose M. Welch sends us this link to a story about Lyle Lovett, pointing out that in two decades of making music, selling 4.6 million albums, he's "never made a dime" from album sales, but has instead used those record sales to make money on tour:

"Records are very powerful promotional tools to go out and be able to play on the road..."
He does go on to say, however, that he thinks music sales should be self-sustaining. Of course, if he can make money from playing on the road, and giving away the music means it's an even more "powerful promotional tool," then why not focus on that? At least he seems open to new ideas:
"If a major label is interested in working with me after these next two records and is able to come up with a strategy that does engage some of the new technology in a way that can benefit everybody, I'd be very interested in that."
The problem, of course, is that most record labels aren't looking at using technology in a way that can benefit everyone. In the mind of your typical record exec, it's the recording industry against anyone else -- and if others are benefiting, that's a sign that the industry is losing. The idea that everyone can benefit doesn't even register.

33 Comments | Leave a Comment..

 
Culture

Culture

by Mike Masnick


Filed Under:
business models, concerts, downloads, free music, nine inch nails, trent reznor



Trent Reznor Continues To Show How Free Music Works In A Business Model

from the smart-guy dept

After his Ghosts I-IV experiment that proved to be a huge success, Trent Reznor wasted little time in releasing the next Nine Inch Nails album as a completely free download. And, of course, he didn't just give it away and pray. At the same time as he released the album, he notified fans of his latest concert.

Now, in an attempt to make that concert (whose tickets are a scarce good people will pay for) even more valuable, he's giving away free tracks of all of the opening acts on the tour. In other words, he's giving people even more reasons to pay to go to the concert. He's giving away that infinite good (the music) to make those scarce goods (the tickets) more valuable. This fits with the model we were discussing just a few weeks ago, of bands giving free downloads to anyone who buys a concert ticket, to boost the value of that ticket. Thanks to everyone who sent this in.

42 Comments | Leave a Comment..

 
Culture

Culture

by Mike Masnick


Filed Under:
bob lefsetz, business models, concerts, free music, music



Bands Should Give Away Their Music With Every Concert Ticket Sold

from the get-them-hooked dept

Well-known music industry commentator Bob Lefsetz has wavered back and forth on the question of whether or not music should be free, but lately it seems that he's gone completely into the "free" camp -- which is nice to see. One of his latest posts explains why bands should figure out ways to give away their music with each concert ticket. As he points out, concert revenue is where most bands make their money these days, so you want to increase the value of those tickets as much as possible. And, generally speaking, many people go to concerts to hear the music they already know. So the more the band can make sure people actually know the band's songs, the happier the fans are going to be at concerts (and the more they'll be willing to pay).

52 Comments | Leave a Comment..

 
Overhype

Overhype

by Mike Masnick


Filed Under:
concerts, mobile phones, musicians



Musicians Whining About Fans With Mobile Phones

from the get-over-it dept

This past Friday night my favorite band was in town, so I went out to see them perform at a club in San Francisco. It was a fun time and they put on a great show (as they usually do) -- and it struck me early on that, even though the club was mobbed, and every once in a while I saw someone pull out a mobile phone to snap a photo or take a video, most people were just dancing and enjoying the show. Apparently, that's not necessarily the case everywhere. PicturePhoning alerts us to an article where a bunch of musicians are whining about fans in the audience with mobile phones. While they do make some interesting points about how fans these days are so focused on documenting their experiences that they might miss the actual experience, the whole "controversy" seems overblown. If the experience is good, the experience is good, and why should the musicians care how the fans experience it? And, as I can tell you from my experience on Friday night, when the experience is top notch, most people don't bother to pull out their mobile phones. So, perhaps rather than worrying about what the fans are doing, musicians should concentrate on putting on a better show.

48 Comments | Leave a Comment..

 
Wireless

Wireless

by Mike Masnick


Filed Under:
concerts, musicians, text messaging



Musicians Leveraging Mobile Phones To Communicate With Fans... But Need To Be Careful With Ads

from the communication,-not-advertising dept

The most powerful uses of new technologies are when they allow someone to do something that couldn't have been done before, rather than just doing the same old thing in a different way. That's why it's interesting to see how some musicians are embracing the fact that nearly everyone these days has a mobile phone by offering mobile-based services that increase the value of attending concerts. The article includes examples of a text message to Lollapalooza attendees offering them a chance to enter a guitar-playing contest that gave the winner a new guitar and a chance to play on stage with a band. Some musicians have competitions where they can win better seats via a text message. Prince asked fans leaving a concert to send a text message to his website, where the messages were displayed.

The article then goes on to talk about the marketing potential of all of this -- where these musicians can supposedly now market to these fans, but that's the wrong way to look at it. Fortunately, even those marketers quoted in the article admit that they need to tread carefully when it comes to marketing, admitting that the mobile phone is "sacred." However, the temptation will probably be too strong for some to overcome -- and that's going to be risky. Those who are embracing text messaging with those attending concerts should recognize that text messaging is simply a completely new way to communicate and interact with fans -- rather than just a one-way street to pitch them. The good news is that many of the experiments described recognize exactly that. However, the musicians should realize that this increased communication will pay benefits in a different way -- making more loyal fans, more willing to go to more shows (and potentially even pay more for those shows). Greedily spamming someone's phone with a pitch risks losing all of that benefit, for a very minor short-term return.

1 Comments | Leave a Comment..

 
Search Techdirt
And now, a word from our Sponsors..



Popular Posts
Poll

Which Internet Concern Worries You The Most?

 

 

 

 

 

 


Add Techdirt RSS To Your Reader
rss Add Techdirt to your Bloglines
Add Techdirt to your Google Add Techdirt to your My Yahoo
Add Techdirt to your Netvibes Add Techdirt to your Newsgator
Subscribe to Techdirt's Daily Email Newsletter

Techdirt's Daily Email Newsletter

Older Stuff

Thursday

4:52pm: What Does It Say When A Comedy Show Does More Fact Checking Than News Programs? (56)
3:33pm: Nordic Music Week: Optimism Galore And Found Songs (11)
2:10pm: Would Top Sites Really Opt-Out Of Google Based On A Microsoft Bribe? (37)
12:57pm: Intel Lawyers Again Go Too Far In Trademark Bullying (21)
11:43am: Mandelson Wants Gov't To Have Sweeping Powers To Protect Copyright Holders (40)
10:47am: Once Again, Walmart Stops People From Printing Family Photos Due To Copyright Law Claims (42)
9:39am: Essayist Writes Popular Essay... Then Sends 'Non-Negotiable' Invoice To Church Who Posts It Online (59)
8:23am: ASCAP, BMI And SESAC Continue To Screw Over Most Songwriters: 'Write A Hit Song If You Want Money' (78)
7:07am: Kicking People Off The Internet Not Enough In South Korea, Copyright Lobbyists Demand More (26)
5:33am: Are The Record Labels Using Bluebeat's Bogus Copyright Defense To Avoid Having To Give Copyrights Back To Artists? (42)
3:53am: Larry Magid Calls For News Tax To Fund Failing Newspapers (29)
1:35am: Judge Says 'There's An Ad For That...' And It's Ok For Now (14)

Wednesday

11:01pm: Oh Look, Some Police Do Know How To Use Craigslist As A Tool (8)
8:43pm: Netherlands The Latest To Propose Mileage Tax That Requires GPS For Tracking Driving (30)
6:40pm: Spain Says Broadband Is A Basic Right (12)
4:22pm: Entertainment Industry Wants More People To Know About OpenBitTorrent Tracker (25)
3:00pm: It's The TSA, Not CSI: Actions Limited To Security, Not Crime Investigation (25)
1:49pm: The More Innovative You Are, The More You Get Sued; Yet Another Patent Lawsuit Over Shazam (7)
12:36pm: Oh No! Nobody Reads! Oh No! It's Too Cheap For Everyone To Read! (18)
11:15am: We See Your 'Copyright Contributes $1.5 Trillion' And Raise You 'Fair Use Contributes $2.2 Trillion' (17)
9:55am: Cable Industry Joins MPAA In Asking FCC To Allow Them To Stop Your DVR From Recording Movies (45)
8:44am: Sony Pictures Having Its Best Box Office Year Ever... Still Blaming Piracy For Killing The Business (38)
7:30am: Jenzabar Finds 'Expert Witness' Who Will Claim Google Relies On Metatags, Despite Google Saying It Does Not (38)
5:52am: China Says Microsoft Violates IP With Windows, Bars Sales (26)
4:01am: Don't Post Comments On StlToday.com Or They Might Tell Your Boss (45)
1:50am: Recording Industry Making It Impossible For Any Legit Online Music Service To Survive Without Being Too Expensive (45)

Tuesday

11:01pm: Crackdown On Loyalty Program Scams Shows How Ridiculously Sucessful They Were (11)
8:56pm: Just Because People Say They'll Pay For Something, It Doesn't Mean They Will (21)
7:02pm: Yes, Bad People Use Facebook Too (8)
5:29pm: Folks Can Digg Shoes For Needy Kids (2)
More arrow
Quick Links
Close
E-mail It