California Cracking Down On Coding Bootcamps For Teaching Coding Without A License
from the licensing-insanity dept
A couple years ago, we wrote about the nutty situation in which state regulators for all sorts of industries are really doing more to simply stop competition, rather than any sort of “consumer protection.” This is not to say that there isn’t a role for regulation in protecting consumers. There may well be, but the more you look at how it works, the more you realize how the system is almost inevitably gamed to be about blocking upstarts and competitors. In the example in that story, we talked about a woman who got in trouble for braiding people’s hair without a “cosmetology” license.
Now we’ve got something happening in California that is even more related to things we’re interested in, though no less ridiculous. The California Bureau for Private Postsecondary Education (BPPE) has sent cease-and-desist letters to a bunch of organizations who run “learn to code” events, claiming that they’re teaching coding without a license and need to be shut down.
In mid-January, the Bureau for Private Postsecondary Education (BPPE) sent cease and desist letters to Hackbright Academy, Hack Reactor, App Academy, Zipfian Academy, and others. General Assembly confirmed that it began working with BPPE several months ago in order to achieve compliance.
BPPE, a unit in the California Department of Consumer Affairs, is arguing that the bootcamps fall under its jurisdiction and are subject to regulation. BPPE is charged with licensing and regulating postsecondary education in California, including academic as well as vocational training programs. It was created in 2010 by the California Private Postsecondary Education Act of 2009, a bill aimed at providing greater oversight of the more than 1,500 postsecondary schools operating in the state.
The intent here may be admirable. There are various scam “post secondary education” offerings that don’t really provide anyone anything of value and over promise what they’re offering. But coding bootcamps are something else entirely. The various groups are saying they’re interested in complying with whatever regulations are necessary, but are also worried about the cost and the time that it will take for this process to run its course. Bureaucracies aren’t known for their efficiency (or their inexpensiveness).
Filed Under: bppe, california, coding, coding bootcamps, licenses, regulations
Companies: app academy, hack reactor, hackbright academy, zipfian academy
Comments on “California Cracking Down On Coding Bootcamps For Teaching Coding Without A License”
I have the perfect idea to settle this matter. Unfortunately I do not have a current license required to pass information from one person to another.
Wait, I just told you I didn’t have a license, that was information. Crud, where do I go to turn myself in at.
Re: Re:
I could tell you, but I don’t have a licence either. Oh, wait… DAMNIT!!
Re: Re:
I have the perfect idea to settle this matter. Unfortunately …
… it won’t fit into the margin of this book.
Re: Response to: Jessie on Jan 30th, 2014 @ 2:23pm
That’s pretty funny. I’d like to write that I laughed after reading your response, but I didn’t apply for the license, and would not want to break the law.
The intent here may be admirable.
There’s nothing admirable about it. The state is upset that these bootcamps aren’t paying hefty license fees. In case you haven’t heard, nobody is allowed to make money in America unless you pay the government for the privilege.
Re: Re:
Only 2 guarantees in life. Death and TAXES!!!!
We need a revolution.
The war on hacking
[snark]…one will now have to wonder if some self-starting young student teaches themselves how to code if they then would be ordered to stop learning or face fines…[/snark]
Speaking of code...
… here’s a tip for the BPPE enforcers: Groups of gassy old men are teaching the code… the Morse code, that is… along with advanced electronics theory to anyone who’s seeking an Amateur Radio license. These villains hold clandestine meetings, use arcane jargon and communicate in an obscure binary code. Come to think of it, Homeland Security might want to help those BPPE’ers remove this plague from polite society.
Is there a puppet master behind the scenes?
Stop people from learning to code. It’s a sure way to stop hacking and copyright infringement!
Oh, wait. It won’t stop copyright infringement. Any moron can download files with no special skills.
Here’s a free clue: The best way to stop copyright infringement would be to stop people from reproducing.
Re: Is there a puppet master behind the scenes?
“Here’s a free clue: The best way to stop copyright infringement would be to stop people from reproducing.”
“Make it so, #1”
Too many cameras, copiers and computers out there to do that now.
What admirable intent?
Is the admirable intent to ensure that eager young kids learn to code to the standards of quality, security, and reliability that we’ve come to expect from the Microsoft name?
About time...
Not going to lie – I like seeing this, given how a good deal of these places are used to ‘train’/fleece H-1Bs who come over for one job, and wind up doing something else entirely. Since these folks can’t exactly ‘brush up’ their skills at public or other accredited schools – they usually wind up at places like this. They may or may not get the education they need, but they can’t necessarily complain if they feel they are getting ripped off. Dealt with a crew like this in the Chicagoland area, who attempted to recruit locals when there was a downturn in H-1Bs a few years ago – with very laughable results.
Re: About time...
“a crew like this”
Do you have proof or even a reference to suggest that these organizations are indeed like this unnamed crew to which you refer?
Re: Re: About time...
It doesn’t matter. What you’re saying is “but I like these guys”. Either you like the Nanny State protecting idiots from themselves or you don’t.
Re: Re: About time...
Yes, yes I do – but it does not matter when they can afford an attorney for a long court case, and I do not.
Re: About time...
A drop of reality in the libertarian dystopian fantasy of bureaucrats running rough shod over the sacred free market that solves all problems, even the ones it creates. I like this site and the ideas it promotes but the knee jerk reactions to all regulations is starting to sour me on it a little bit.
Re: Re: About time...
Besides the issue of fundamental human rights, the unintended consequences of well meaning state intervention often outweigh the benefits. Private voluntary certifications are a better option. Fraud laws already apply to crooked operations.
Re: About time...
Read much? The article was addressing KIDS’ camps to teach the younger ones interested in it how to code. I suppose anything can be abused, and this likely has. But how is it the public tax xupported “Institutes of Higher Learning” can charge many thousands of dollars per year to teach remedial maths (because the secondary schools utterly fail at this but graduate their inmates anyway) and “wimmins studies”? Fifteen grand to learn, uhm, WHAT was it now? And these kids camps are “dangerous”? One more instance of a government solution in desparate need of a problem to “solve”. And the universal solvent is always money, stolen at gunpoint under the classification” license fees”.
Re: Re: About time...
‘Post-Secondary’ today – ‘Specialty Education’ tomorrow, just a bunch looking to fleece a group of people that will have little to no chance to recover their money once they realize they have been sold snake-oil.
"Liscencing" and "Regulating" modern code words for GUILD
“Licensing” and “Regulating” are presented to the people for their “Protection” when in reality all it is about is CONTROL and protecting entrenched interests.
I understand that in modern society it has its’ place (Doctors, Surgeons, Commercial Drivers and Pilots and such) however folks that already work in a field are generally for licensing requirements as it is a barrier to entry for other folks wanting to get in on the trade.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-01-19/monti-takes-ax-to-mussolini-era-guilds.html
I’m normally loath to refer anyone to anything that has Nanny-Bloomberg’s’ name on it but this was the quickest reference I could find.
Re: "Liscencing" and "Regulating" modern code words for GUILD
folks that already work in a field are generally for licensing requirements
I think it’s the other way around; the people favoring licensing requirements are those already established in the field. I very much doubt most programmers, for example, would favor requiring a license to be a programmer. Maybe it’s different in other fields though.
Re: Re: "Liscencing" and "Regulating" modern code words for GUILD
Having some recognizable qualification or experience should suffice, shouldn’t it? Why would a licence be required for coding? It’s not surgery.
Re: Re: "Liscencing" and "Regulating" modern code words for GUILD
I like having a certified plumber working on my gas fuelled heating system, but that is a safety critical thing.
But teaching programming, not so much.
A better idea
Given that in no sane world should it be required for you to obtain a license simple to teach something to someone else, I have a better way to accomplish their “admirable intent”: official certifications.
Right now in the software engineering world, certifications in various things are acceptable as an alternative or addition to degrees. Think of the various Microsoft certifications as an example. These are useful for showing potential employers that you are competent in various particular skills.
The state should do this. And hack camps that want to offer certifications must be licensed by the state. Anyone can teach this stuff without a license, but can’t issue the certifications to the students.
Anyone who cares about the quality of the education (employers, for instance) can look at the certifications or lack thereof — or do what lots of employers do, and simply administer a test.
Re: A better idea
This is how I know you’re not a programmer.
Microsoft certifications are infamous (at least among experienced coders) for being either useless or less than useless (there are some who claim, without irony, that such a certification is a negative indicator of competence). They might show “potential employers” something they want to see, but only if they’re the type of employer that a good programmer wouldn’t want to work for in the first place.
You know what does show a (halfway decent) potential employer that you’re a good programmer? Actual programming. Samples of code you’ve done before. Personal projects, open-source projects you’ve contributed to, etc.
Re: Re: A better idea
Man, you’re hilarious. I’ve been a software engineer likely for longer than you’ve been alive. Odds are very good that you use some of my code every day, particularly if you’re a low-level programmer. Further, I’ve interviewed and tested literally hundreds of engineers over the decades.
In any case, you’re correct, and haven’t actually contradicted anything I said. To recap my comment: I said that such certification are looked at by employers, as you acknowledge. I also said that lots of employers test instead (code sample count as “testing”), as you acknowledge.
We aren’t actually in disagreement. You’re just choosing to take the conversation in a different direction.
Re: A better idea
Why would you want to be certified by a company whose software deoesn’t work?
Re: Re: A better idea
Becasue most recruitment companies (and by extension Big firms) use the MS certification as a way to thin the herd of applicants.
The MS certification has no meaning in the grand scheme of things at all and is basically next to useless, especially since it has to be renewed often (read as “pay MS more money for a piece of useless paper”)
A better example of certification though (and ones that would probably suffice for both John and mason) would be CISCO certifications on networking (Generic for networks) and/or SANS certifications for Security protocols etc.
Re: Re: Re: A better idea
This is true. The only reason I mentioned MS certifications at all is because more people outside the industry are aware of what they are. They were just an example of what I meant by “certifications”.
Re: A worse idea - certifications
I am very glad that the mostly stupid certifications in the software industry are all but dead now.
My direct experience with some certified people is that they are focused on test taking and not actual understanding. They know how to find and study the right guides that help get you ready for the actual test. They know all the book answers. They don’t know much in practice.
One that I know couldn’t code his way out of a paper bag.
I don’t know much about the Engineering world, but I must wonder; is the certifications for Engineering mostly an issue of liability as well as ensuring some minimum standards of competence? I assume the certification is not a measure of how outstanding one’s skills might be.
Re: Re: A worse idea - certifications
From a hiring perspective, certifications only really count under certain special circumstances. For example, when hiring into an entry-level position and you’re faced with two equally inexperienced candidates without actual degrees, the one with a certification has a slight edge. They are also sometimes useful to show that a more experienced coder has been keeping his skillset current (in which case, the certification is less about demonstrating proficiency as about signalling that the candidate is putting some effort into things).
Re: Re: A worse idea - certifications
A Professional Engineering license is, indeed, an issue of liability and minimum standards.
http://www.nspe.org/resources/licensure/what-pe
Although PE’s for software engineering weren’t a thing until just last year, and I don’t think anyone (states, employers) are requiring them yet.
Seems fair
The regulations, apparently, come down to “pay $3,500 +0.75% of revenue (max $25,000) in fees per year, provide proof that your finances are in order, provide proof that you accurately report your placement rate, don’t pay your recruiters per-recruit, have a refund policy, get students to sign a thing saying this is all clear to them.”
http://www.bppe.ca.gov/lawsregs/ppe_act.shtml
http://www.bppe.ca.gov/enforcement/institution_minreq.shtml
That does seem to slightly favor larger institutions, but it also doesn’t seem unreasonable. If I were considering going to one of these academies, I would like to be confident that those requirements were in place, and think those costs are quite fair to pay for enforcement.
Re: Seems fair
Placement rate?
They are teaching people how to CODE. Today that’s the equivalent of teaching people how to read, or how to chew with their mouth closed.
Coding is not a profession for most people who do it – it’s something every literate person ought to know.
Should I be required to get a state license to teach reading? R/C airplane building? Writing? Photography?
I think there’s a 1st amendment issue here – people should be free to teach whatever they want without needing permission.
Re: Re: Seems fair
My guess is that the difference here is “teaching in return for money”.
It’s hard to say, however, whether these groups are charging money for the actual learning experience, or to cover the costs of setting up the events, etc.
I think this deserves some further attention from lawmakers to determine if they have unleashed unintended consequences upon a perfectly reasonable and otherwise lawful activity here.
Re: Re: Re: Seems fair
What does money have to do with it?
Suppose I want to teach people how to play the piano – and charge $20/hour for it. I should need a license?
How is it the state’s business whether I teach piano for free or for $20? It’s my business and my student’s business.
I’m not issuing degrees or certifications – I’m just transferring knowledge. I shouldn’t need permission for that, whether there’s money involved or not.
Re: Re: Re:2 Seems fair
I gave you insightful for both posts. Your comment totally deserves it.
Re: Re: Re:2 Seems fair
Part of it’s a string of high-profile problems in California where private schools took in payments and then closed their doors, leaving students out the money and not getting any of the classes they paid for. One of the highest-profile was Silver State Helicopters in El Cajon (San Diego area) that closed it’s doors abruptly after students had paid $70K each in tuition. Around the same time a private business college here did the same, the tuition wasn’t as high but it hit a lot more people. A large part of the regulation was simply to make sure that private schools didn’t keep doing this, that if they weren’t able to provide the courses students had paid for they had a mechanism in place to insure students got their money back or at the very least could get their classes at another institution without having to pay again.
If you think the BPPE isn’t necessary, I find it interesting that the problematic closures happened in the 2007-2009 timeframe. That’s the time between when the previous regulatory body, the BPPVE, ceased to exist because the previous laws governing private postsecondary schools expired, and when the new law formed the BPPE to take over the regulatory role. I have a hard time crediting that as mere coincidence.
Re: Re: Re: Seems fair
of COURSE they are unleashing unintended consequences upon a perfectly reasonable and otherwise lawful activity. That’s what government DO, is it not? Someone invents a solution, proposes it to government bureaucrats, who go on the hunt for an imagined problem at which they can throw thos solution, figure out how to extract money at gunpoint from those who otherwise would not pay it, and make it all so. Then they go home, or to the “club”, pat themselves on their backs and congratulate themselves on what a great job they are doing in protecting the public.. from itself.
Never ever in their long-legged lives could them imagine a Free Market taking care of the imagined “problem” all on its own.
Re: Re: Seems fair
Yes, placement rate. Bootcamps already advertise their placement rates, EXTENSIVELY. Their whole existence is based around “We will get you a job, or the skills to get a job,” and they’re often primarily funded by businesses hoping to hire people straight out of the programs. Maybe you think most people-who-code aren’t doing in professionally (I’d disagree on that being currently true, but that’s beside the point) but these organizations are certainly advertising that you will be doing so after you complete their program.
Your piano teacher? Your free adult literacy meetings at the public library? Completely different. Not covered by the statute. A completely irrelevant comparison.
Re: Re: Re: Seems fair
Yes, placement rate. Bootcamps already advertise their placement rates, EXTENSIVELY.
Couldn’t that be handled with deceptive advertising laws?
Re: Re: Re:2 Seems fair
Maybe. But, as a previous commenter mentioned, CA had a couple of high-profile incidents where schools closed overnight and run off with the tuition. A big part of BPPE is guaranteeing tuition re-reimbursement. Cost * customers is typically a LOT higher when it comes to schools than with your run-of-the-mill deceptive advertising claim.
Re: Seems fair
How does “We paid money for our license” indicate quality such that it would make you more confident to attend? Any idiot can pay a fee, as long as he or she has the money.
Re: Re: Seems fair
Case in point: California’s Crackerjax Box Bureau of Automotive Repair. Anyone with the fee and a physical location (a dirt floor single car garage at my residence worked for me…..) can get the stupid piece of paper. NO qualification or skill necessary. And the “advantage”? You get a new state burocracy breathing down your neck. The consumer “protection” feature: you can now sue in your local Small Claims Court. Oh, wait, I could do that BEFORE this scam was invented. Typical of the Golden (more correctly: “Federal Reserve Note”) State.
I don’t see why this event wouldn’t be protected by the First Amendment.
License to teach art?
I assume the same thing covers any group that gets people together to share/learn musical talents…
Information wants to be licensed.
Based on that logic,
parents are also breaking the law for teaching their children how to walk and talk without a license.
out of curiosity, what harm can anyone teaching this ‘unregistered’ do to anyone and even more importantly, what harm can anyone do who is attending with the aim of learning?
Re: Re:
$15,000 worth of harm.
I guess they’d rather have people flipping burgers than learning a valuable trade.
California did the same thing to the San Francisco Baking Institute, a world famous baking school. It was touch and go if they’d be able to stay open. I thought it was outrageous. Mostly because of the sudden and heavy-handed way the state handled it. “You’re shut down. Now.” was pretty much the way it went down. They had to jump through hoops and make the rivers run backwards to stay open.
On the other hand, they, and the coding academies mentioned, are charging for their services. I don’t have a problem with the state of California trying to make sure that the schools are legit. In many cases, the students are paying with funds the state provided, so the question of “is the state getting their money’s worth?” is a valid question.
Re: Re:
The state paying for post secondary education is another thing they should quit doing. But arguing or complaining about the government’s overreach won’t work. The only way to stop the tyranny is to cut off their funds.
Scopes. Monkey. Trial.
Talking about scope creep.
I see commenter AC #17 already gets it.
Probably those “bootcamps” apply for gov tax breaks by claiming to be educational facilities, albeit clearly not as deservingly as your Ivy Leagues.
Thus not 100% “coding bootcamps” stay outside scope of BPPE.
Does the TD community object to BPPE’s official scope being overreaching? or to BPPE overreaching their official scope?
Your gov is trying to protect your under-educated from scams.
Yes any damn Dunning-Kruger remains free to make $ off the equally uneducated masses –with grand fictions about “how to code apps, improve your lot in life”– but at some point that business-model approaches a scam causing harm enough that it’s crossed over today’s jagged line of “consumer protection” Laws.
And thanks to biology, no primate –upright or otherwise– is so clever their life can’t be quickly cut down by what at first glance to the novice seems at most “mostly harmless” misinformation, found published under the banner of information (for-wellmeaning-cum-greedy-profiteering).
Exhibit A: whatstheharm.net
Re: Scopes. Monkey. Trial.
Aren’t there already laws against fraud and such?
on a lighter note? still too dark??
Coding is addictive.
Just because we can’t call to mind anybody starving to death after wasting too much money on a coding cult, dont mean it aint worth We The People protecting against this happening to OOTB.
At some point, slowly leaking all one’s $ into the stock market, or into bitcoins on speculation, is called irresponsible gambling… and we’re lucky our gov tries to block digital casinos from legally fleecing a few addicts “just trying to make a buck in this competitive market / world”.
YouTubes' Next
I hope they don’t go after YouTubers….
They’re teaching Cooking without a license and need to be shut down
They’re teaching Auto Repair without a license and need to be shut down
They’re teaching Coding without a license and need to be shut down
They’re teaching Sewing without a license and need to be shut down
They’re teaching Music without a license and need to be shut down
They’re teaching Gaming without a license and need to be shut down
They’re teaching Crafts without a license and need to be shut down
It’s become my go to place to quickly learn a skill that can be learned by a 3 minute video.
“?Our primary goal is not to collect a fine. It is to drive them to comply with the law,? said Russ Heimerich, a spokesperson for BPPE. Heimerich is confident that these companies would lose in court if they attempt to fight BPPE.”
They still very much push Certs DannyB.
Want to be a Database admin? better have some type of cert.
Want to be any type of network engineer? The Cisco systems cert/training is all but mandated by all(and that training/cert is about $10k base line)
Hell the base line entry level tech job at my place requires a bachelors degree OR an associates with A+ or other certs.
Maybe some of the BS certs have been pushed aside, but just go browse a few job listing cites and you will see them asking for all sorts of different certs still.
Ok...but
Considering some of the bootcamps named are charging fees in the $15K range, I could see where some oversight might be justified. Whether or not the CA government is the best choice to provide said oversight is another matter.
Right now, I think the cost might be a bigger impediment to a would-be coder than anything the government is currently doing.
coding education
America promised land ??? Turbo Capitalistically exploit one first !
Now what ? Paying a fee if i learn to code on my own ??? The State says who will gain knowledge and how ??? No wonder you losing tech game in compare to others so you must do industrial espionage trough NSA and others ! Newer in my life i go to America – stupid and outrageous laws – where is freedom there when being spy-ed monitored recorded non stop i even avoid to use Americans proxy services ! And British are even worse also Ireland ! And tech that we use is more reliable and stable made in EU ! Even MS OS is crap as NSA actively supported involved and even financial backup-ed development of MS OS ! No wonder that smart hackers discover so many holes in it ! This as to day is common knowledge ! Why do you think why so many problems with MS OS if they were so good having so much people resources and IQ employed ! We in EU will build our own network sub Internet if you like encrypted and secure, where privacy of user is in the first place ! We will push and Brusel must aplay otherwise national wide will be protests and demands ! So EU is not America here is privacy respected free to speach and no censure from ISP, if then so i go to my IPS provider that sit very near and drag him in to my dojo club and teach him what privacy means the very martial arts way, privacy will be in great respect to user otherwise they will wonder what happens next ! We are not dumb ! We have ways to enforce our rights on various ways ! When politicians are too arrogant and wont listen to people (last year they want to ”privatize” water rights what is common good, they have resign under huge civil pressure and protests), we people are waiting for them at home address if we must, it has happen before and will happen again if they go too far with our nerves and rights ! Turbo capitalism and greed is the root of all problems there !!! We should enforce trading economy where all people will earn enough for living ! Remember governments want to have people stupid so they can rule and do what ever they want, be smart and gain knowledge on your own as much you can, no one can take that from you and before you die pass it to the next generation !
They are upset because THEY ARE USING UBUNTU LINUX…
http://venturebeat.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/demo-station-ggd1.jpeg?w=558&h=9999&crop=0
Check out: Go-Live Labs
I guess at this rate they are going to go after any certification class, training vendor, tutor, or karate academy.
They need to relax and stop trying to make money of the techies.