EA 'Embraces' SimCity Players: Releases Useless Modding Tools And Promises Supposedly Impossible 'Offline' Mode

from the maybe-we're-just-not-hated-ENOUGH dept

EA/Maxis is reviving memories of its epicly disastrous release of SimCity back in March with a couple of announcements. The first announcement is EA's awkward attempt to embrace its community like an ex-husband trying to coax a hug out of his estranged wife during supervised child visitation.

Modders, EA wants YOU to start cranking out some compelling content for SimCity. Here's EA's lead-in:

Maxis and Electronic Arts (“EA”) have a long tradition of supporting the creativity of our community. We’re so excited to see the new ground many of you are breaking with SimCity Modding that we wanted to do something that would make it easier for you to continue to create amazing stuff. We’re putting this policy in place to ensure that our guidelines on Modding are clear and that all of our players get to enjoy SimCity their own way while also maintaining the safety and integrity of the SimCity experience. What comes next is up to you, our players. We hope the SimCity Modding community continues to grow and we’re looking forward to seeing what you create.
Sounds exciting. What can modders do exactly with EA's tools? Game Politics breaks it down… to a single sentence.
According to EA's guidelines the community is basically limited to cosmetic changes, such as reskins of buildings.
That noise you heard was any remaining enthusiasm being sucked out of the room. Alright, what can't modders do?
1. Mods must not jeopardize the integrity of the gameplay or harm the experience of others. Mods that affect the simulation for multiplayer games and multiplayer features, such as leaderboards or trading with other players, are not allowed.

2. Mods must not infringe any copyright, trademark, patent, trade secret or other intellectual property right of any third party and will not include content that is unlawful, tortious, defamatory, obscene, invasive of the privacy of another person, threatening, harassing, abusive, hateful, racist or otherwise objectionable or inappropriate. SimCity has an age rating of ESRB Everyone 10+ and PEGI 7, and similar ratings from other ratings boards around the world. EA requires that Mods not include any material that would not be allowed under these ratings.

3. Mods may not modify any .com, .exe, .dll, .so or other executable files.

The terms and conditions of SimCity EULA and EA’s Terms of Service are specifically incorporated into this policy by this reference. In the event that the terms of this policy are in conflict with the terms of the SimCity EULA or EA’s Terms of Service, the terms of this Policy shall supersede and govern over any such conflicting terms.
To maintain the integrity of SimCity and ensure the best possible gaming experience for our players, EA reserves the right, in its sole discretion, to revoke permission to use, distribute or make Mods at any time, to disable any Mod within SimCity and to take disciplinary action against players who harm the experience of others.
It's just as bad as everyone expected it would be when the first draft of the modding guidelines indicated EA's resistance to "game-changing" elements. The final wording basically states that any mod worth playing will be either a) impossible or b) forbidden. So much for "supporting the creativity of the community." And if some modder should create a particularly crafty building skin, EA retains the right to take credit for the modder's work.
Distribution of your Mod in any form constitutes a grant by you to EA of an irrevocable, perpetual, royalty-free, sub-licensable right to use, copy, modify and distribute that Mod (and derivatives of that Mod), and use your name if we choose to, for any purpose and through any means, and without obligation to pay you anything, obtain your approval, or give you credit. You also agree to promptly execute assignments confirming this license upon request from EA.
So, there's that. EA says mod to your heart's content... but hope that your heart is very easily satisfied.

EA's not quite done abusing its community. First, it gave them crude tools and hefty limitations and invited them to repaint a couple of things. Then, three days later, it made the following announcement in order to further insult the intelligence of its customers.
Let's get right to it.

SIMCITY OFFLINE IS COMING!

I';ve wanted to say those words for quite some time, so my apologies that I didn't take the time to say Happy New Year first.

Yes, Offline is coming as a free download with Update 10 to all SimCity players. When we launch it, all of your previously downloaded content will be available to you anytime, anywhere, without the need for an internet connection. We are in the late phases of wrapping up its development and while we want to get it into your hands as soon as possible, our priority is to make sure that it’s as polished as possible before we release it.
FOR REAL? You mean the "offline mode" that someone not employed by EA/Maxis accomplished within a week of the game being released? The impossibility of an offline mode (at least according to PR (who claimed EA's servers performed necessary gameplay calculations) turned out to be not only a complete lie but taking the game offline (via the debug mode) actually made the game better.
In fact, it actually improves the game in some ways. City populations are actually tracked correctly and you can edit outside of your city boundaries. Those additional edits are also saved when you reconnect.
We can be fairly sure EA's "Offline Mode," despite being released nine months after the unofficial version, won't contain these improvements. It will be the same SimCity except with months of extraneous software engineering thrown in. And it looks as if EA has finally cracked the "Save to..." code.
[B]ecause your saved games in this mode are stored locally, you can save and load to your heart’s content. Our team will be delivering a follow-up blog that will outline the full details in the near future so stay tuned.
Fascinating. I'm really looking forward to the blog post detailing the intricacies of saving to local storage. Sure, it seems like the sort of basic thing that thousands of pieces of software have done for several decades, but I'm sure the EA/Maxis spin team has a new angle I haven't considered.

Then there's this mysterious statement which doesn't seem to cohere with the modding announcement made three days earlier.
Bringing the game Offline means big things for our wonderful community of Modders. They can now make modifications to the game and its components without compromising the integrity of the Online game.
Yes, while Offline-only mods won't break the game as long as they're only used locally (another observation which ranks up there with the discovery of hard drives), those type of mods seem to be specifically forbidden by the modding ToS.
Mods must not jeopardize the integrity of the gameplay or harm the experience of others.
And this:
Mods may not modify any .com, .exe, .dll, .so or other executable files.
If these mods are never taken online, there's a good chance they'll never be discovered. However, the modding tools don't seem to allow for this sort of creativity. "Modifying the game and its components" seems limited to cosmetic changes. Bringing the game offline doesn't make the stunted tool set any more complete. For that matter, if modders just wanted to break the game offline, they'd been able to do so for months now.

Gamers and modders aren't going to be happy with EA's long-delayed "embrace" of its paying customers. Instead, they're going to feel like they're being talked down to by the same team that spent weeks lying about the "necessity" of an online-only game. If both the online requirements and the will-this-do modding tools are indicative of EA's future plans, more and more gamers are going to find better games (and companies) to support.



Reader Comments (rss)

(Flattened / Threaded)

  1.  
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    Arsik Vek (profile), Jan 13th, 2014 @ 12:48pm

    So, wait... if I make a mod, they can use my *name* for any purpose?

     

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    Baron von Robber, Jan 13th, 2014 @ 1:23pm

    I will celebrate!

    As a big fan of the SimCity series, I will load up on my brand new system, SimCity 2000.

    It's been years since I played any version of SimCity, but I remember that 1) it's fun & 2) it STILL does not require to be online.

     

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  3. This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
     
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    out_of_the_blue, Jan 13th, 2014 @ 1:23pm

    Oh, joy! Games! -- Yet, hopeful sign of gamers beginning to object to their content being stolen by EA!

    Note the long detailed analysis in contrast to items of importance. I've yet to see the troubling Yelp ruling re-written here, for instance.

    Meanwhile, EA/Maxis goes rolling along not noticing all this squawking, or if anything, pleased by it.

    Visit Mike's other sites at least once a year, fanboys!

    Have you clicked on it this year?
    http://insightcommunity.com/

    09:22:50[k-485-5]

     

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  4.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jan 13th, 2014 @ 1:27pm

    Re: Oh, joy! Games! -- Yet, hopeful sign of gamers beginning to object to their content being stolen by EA!

    hi blue. *click* bye blue.

     

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    Alana (profile), Jan 13th, 2014 @ 1:30pm

    I'm surprised they aren't making Offline Mode a paid DLC.

     

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  6.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jan 13th, 2014 @ 1:37pm

    Re: Oh, joy! Games! -- Yet, hopeful sign of gamers beginning to object to their content being stolen by EA!

    Yeah, what's important about a multibillion dollar industry?

     

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  7.  
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    John Fenderson (profile), Jan 13th, 2014 @ 1:44pm

    Re:

    Or a subscription. Play offline for a mere $5/month!

     

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  8. This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
     
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    Anonymous Coward, Jan 13th, 2014 @ 1:45pm

    Re: Oh, joy! Games! -- Yet, hopeful sign of gamers beginning to object to their content being stolen by EA!

    How come you haven't fucking killed yourself?

     

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  9.  
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    S. T. Stone, Jan 13th, 2014 @ 1:50pm

    I'll sum this entire debacle up in one sentence.

    EA fucked up big time.

     

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  10.  
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    ECA (profile), Jan 13th, 2014 @ 1:55pm

    snort??

    laugh
    Giggle
    CRY?

     

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  11.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jan 13th, 2014 @ 2:03pm

    No, no, and no..

    It's still fuck you EA..

    I lost every single one of my accounts for charging back on Sim Shitty. I hate those sons of bitches with a passion and I hope the CEO gets raped by Martha Stewart.

     

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    Zem, Jan 13th, 2014 @ 2:07pm

    Proof is in

    These latest developments provide proof positive, WE ARE IN A SIM. One that is being played by a petulant alien child with a god complex.

    Our only hope are the alien modders, only they can set us free.

     

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  13.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jan 13th, 2014 @ 2:09pm

    EA "customers" are morons

    Anyone who doesn't know by now that EA's business model is to repeatedly gang-rape its customers is an idiot, and DESERVES to be lied to, ripped off, used, mocked, and despised. I'm quibbling with TD's choice to cover this -- it's an interesting story. But what's missing is the sneering contempt for anyone so pathetically stupid that they fall for this crap from EA.

     

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    Jake, Jan 13th, 2014 @ 2:33pm

    I can sort of understand the ban on IP-infringing mods, because I have absolutely no idea if Section 230 safe-harbours would apply to EA in this situation. I'll even grant them the "no screwing around with the gameplay mechanics" part, because the game is a quasi-MMO with what could be described as PVP if you squint, so mods that convey some sort of advantage would be pretty unfair to newbies.

    But... Well, I'm just going to quote it all, because you have to read this part at least twice before the full enormity of it sinks in.

    Distribution of your Mod in any form constitutes a grant by you to EA of an irrevocable, perpetual, royalty-free, sub-licensable right to use, copy, modify and distribute that Mod (and derivatives of that Mod), and use your name if we choose to, for any purpose and through any means, and without obligation to pay you anything, obtain your approval, or give you credit. You also agree to promptly execute assignments confirming this license upon request from EA.


    Are you fucking kidding me?

     

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  15.  
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    Rikuo (profile), Jan 13th, 2014 @ 2:49pm

    Re:

    Just in case some people don't want to translate the legalese here, here is what that clause would allow them to do.
    Let's pretend that a bunch of people individually create some great mods and let's say next Christmas, EA decides to release a "Best of 2014 SimCity Mod DLC". That clause up there would allow SimCity to take these mods and sell them like any other DLC for a price and not even have to so much as credit the mod authors, let alone pay them a cent. They could say in this hypothetical DLC that all of the mods were actually created by EA.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Jan 13th, 2014 @ 3:06pm

    Re:

    You could have stopped before big time and summed up EA's business model.

     

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  17.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jan 13th, 2014 @ 3:07pm

    Re:

    That last line, "execute assignments..." is weird. Sounds like mandatory homework.

    I get that they don't want mods messing up the online game. Good luck to them policing third party sites for off-line playing though.

    I'm a former Sims player, and user-made content (commonly called CC, for 'custom content') from third party sites is a huge deal, far expanding what comes with the game/s and the tools they contain for making your own stuff (mostly retexturing game objects, which included ingame utilities for sharing with other players registered on the official site). Play enough and you get tired of the same ol' same ol'; third partiers with some skills keep things interesting. EA seemed okay with this, keeps people buying the games and expansions.

    Even modding sites, that offered gameplay alterations small and large or, bless 'em, FIXES for chronic issues never handled by EA are tolerated. Some third party stuff for those games gets not only quite complex, or even adult, but plenty cross over into what could technically be seen as trademark or copyright infringement. Toss in some sites charging for what they're doing (with EA code, with other people's materials) and a few years back it was quite a fooraw that EA never deigned to weigh in on - as long as they were selling games, they gave exactly zero fucks. Got quite ugly in the community, DDoS attacks, folks getting ripped off, false DMCAs...colossally stupid and damaging shit over game mods for shiny Sim hair.

    [Must note that the most trustworthy third party fixers of the game gave those fixes away freely, maybe asked for a donation for site costs but never withheld from anyone. Those fixes kept me playing the games long after I would've dropped them out of boredom or aggravation.]

    I think EA saw things like this, mostly these certain third partiers collecting a nice paycheck off of EA code with no kickback at all and started revamping their EULAs.

    This verbiage is no surprise. All your creations using EA code, etc. is belong to them.

     

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  18.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jan 13th, 2014 @ 3:11pm

    EA has killed any possible sales from me long ago. It did not take the latest Sim City to convince me not to buy their products. This has been years in the making. They have lost tons of sales from me, simply because I dislike their business methods and refuse to support them by the spending money on their games. They can keep them and I will keep my money and we should both be very much happier.

    Ubisoft is another I will never buy games from. No need to make statements nor token moves saying "we've changed". I simply won't believe them after all the bad customer references I've read over the years.

     

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  19.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jan 13th, 2014 @ 3:35pm

    Just as expected. Everyone knew that they will not allow any real modding. Mostly because that would make their simple DLC's pointless.
    Cant wait until they release sims4. Its hard to imagine how could they fuck things up even more but i expect the best from EA.
    And im stocked up on popcorn.

     

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  20.  
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    Rekrul, Jan 13th, 2014 @ 3:38pm

    EA used to be a software company I respected. Now "EA" sees to stand for Extremely Abysmal.

    I was planning to buy Alice: Madness Returns, but then I learned that it needs to be "activated". They can take that crap and shove it up their asses. If I buy a game, I'd better be able to install it where, when and how I want without having to get someone else's permission to play it.

    I'd download a pirated copy of it if I could find one that worked without making you jump through a dozen hoops to play it.

    Maybe it'll eventually show up on GOG...

     

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  21.  
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    The Prick, Jan 13th, 2014 @ 3:47pm

    Not buying Dragon Age 3...

    Oddly, I am not buying dragon age 3, because of the mess EA made of Sim City, Mass Effect 3, and Command And Conquer.

    I mean, each of those individually wasn't enough... buuut...

     

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  22.  
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    John Fenderson (profile), Jan 13th, 2014 @ 3:55pm

    Re:

    The last time I had a positive thought about EA was in the era when there were still Apple II machines in regular use.

     

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  23.  
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    Drew, Jan 13th, 2014 @ 3:59pm

    Devil's advocate post

    While it's likely that EA will only sanction superficial mods, the statement, "Mods may not modify any .com, .exe, .dll, .so or other executable files." doesn't definitively rule out gameplay mods. I believe even the celebrated Network Add-on Mod for Simcity 4 was accomplished solely by modifying the non-executable simcity_1.dat file since that game's architecture made it possible.

    Allowing modders to create offline-only mods could allow for gameplay changes while still following those rules.

    All of this requires a lot more foresight and respect for their customers than EA has demonstrated to date, so I'm not hoping for much, but their blog post about offline play does suggest that offline mods can be more extensive than online mods.

     

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  24.  
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    Deranged Poster (profile), Jan 13th, 2014 @ 3:59pm

    Re:

    Enjoying giving EA new ideas for SimCity 2014?

     

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  25.  
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    Mark Wing, Jan 13th, 2014 @ 4:01pm

    They might as well just say "Look! It sucks slightly less now."

     

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  26.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jan 13th, 2014 @ 4:49pm

    Re:

    Well the A must stand for Alchemists because the repeatedly manage to turn gold into shit.

     

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  27.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jan 13th, 2014 @ 4:50pm

    I don't buy EA games anymore. I always felt abused as a EA customer. I view their games as rushed products, full of bugs, that are marketed towards "casual gamers".

    That's not the kind of gaming experience, or treatment as a customer, I'm looking for.

    Don't even get me started on the DLC gouging. Selling games with half the content locked, causing the game's price to be doubled if you want the rest of the game unlocked.

    There's a reason EA has received the Golden Poo Award for 2 years strait. They look on track to receive it this year too. That'll make 3 years in a row.

     

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  28.  
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    R. Daneel Olivaw, Jan 13th, 2014 @ 4:53pm

    Re: Not buying Dragon Age 3...

    I'd like to play Mass Effect 3. I'll get it as soon as it shows up on Steam (or GoG, whichever comes first).

     

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  29.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jan 13th, 2014 @ 5:55pm

    Re: Re: Not buying Dragon Age 3...

    Do yourself a favor: dont!

     

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  30.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jan 13th, 2014 @ 6:04pm

    out_of_the_blue just loathes it when due process is enforced.

     

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    Wally (profile), Jan 13th, 2014 @ 6:08pm

    What this says to me...

    "When we launch it, all of your previously downloaded content will be available to you anytime, anywhere, without the need for an internet connection."

    In other words...everything was designed to look like it was being uploaded and downloaded to EA's servers...when it was really squirreled away on your computer...So what that means the "Always Online" bullshit was just exactly that...bullshit/DRM.

     

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  32.  
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    FM Hilton, Jan 13th, 2014 @ 8:31pm

    Fascinating to see this

    So EA wants to re-embrace all the modders it cast out so coldly when it released SC5?

    Then they expect them to come rushing back, although with both hands tied behind their backs and legal threats abounding?

    How stupid is EA, anyway? Oh, wait. They're beyond stupid.

    Extremely Asinine.

    Oh, by the way, all the content one uploads to EA for the game is not yours ever again. Don't even bother to try to claim ownership. EA owns it, now and forever.

    It doesn't matter now what they do with the game. It's a loss, and an embarrassment to the gaming community. They should just shut up while they have both feet in their mouths.

    Otherwise, it just makes them look greedy and stupid at the same time.

    Meanwhile, I'll happily play SC4.

     

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  33.  
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    Brian Vaughan (profile), Jan 13th, 2014 @ 10:41pm

    Re: Proof is in

    But, given that we're here, the petulant alien child with a god complex will allow us to reskin buildings in our choice of red, green, or blue.

     

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  34.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jan 14th, 2014 @ 12:41am

    Re:

    Reads like:

    We can't be bothered to make anymore DLCs so we'll let you do all the work so we can take it, profit off it and claim all the credit.

     

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  35.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jan 14th, 2014 @ 2:24am

    Re: Re: Oh, joy! Games! -- Yet, hopeful sign of gamers beginning to object to their content being stolen by EA!

    I still got the suspiction that the blue-fucker is just one of Mike's friends to provide an negative view to all the posts, because why else isn't that fucker been banned and removed, or at least tracked down and killed with a spade.

     

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  36.  
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    Anonymous Howard (profile), Jan 14th, 2014 @ 4:04am

    Re: Re:

    I don't really get it:

    How can they profit from mods that are available online for free (or they also prohibit uploading your own work for free to anywhere?)

    Also, if that's what they want, that's what they got, and you have to roll with it but:
    - WTF it means they can use your name?
    - What's with the last sentence? If you create a mod, they can oblige you to do work for them uncredited and unpaid?

     

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    Ninja (profile), Jan 14th, 2014 @ 4:06am

    It is as if they have no self awareness. They keep screwing up big time and lying as if it has no consequences! O whait. It has no consequences, a lot of people are still buying from EA.

    Here's me hoping at least they drove a good chunk of those clueless gamers away with this.

     

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  38.  
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    Anonymous Howard (profile), Jan 14th, 2014 @ 4:08am

    Re:

    Doubled? Are you kidding me?
    Just check out The sims x series, with the multiplier around 10x with the EPs and dlcs (not including micro transactions)

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Jan 14th, 2014 @ 4:39am

    yep! sounds like there's plenty of scope to make great mods here! is it any wonder why people get so pissed at game manufacturers? jeez!

     

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  40.  
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    Call me Al, Jan 14th, 2014 @ 4:55am

    Re: Re: Re: Not buying Dragon Age 3...

    Oh come now. Even if you don't like the ending of ME3 you've got to admit the rest of the game was pretty damn good. Not as good as ME2 sure but very good nonetheless.

    The opening mission with the invasion of Earth is one of the most impressive sights I've seen in a computer game. I also spent a long time playing the multiplayer, although it was rather limited.

     

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  41.  
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    Geno0wl (profile), Jan 14th, 2014 @ 7:05am

    The problem with ME3 wasn't that the gameplay was bad, it was that the game not only didn't live up to the promise of the first game(YOUR CHOICES MATTER!!!!!!) but it outright spit in player's faces over that fact.
    The most obvious answer is the Rachnii mission.
    Remember in ME1 where you ran into the last rachni Queen in existence because the Krogan had killed them all?
    Well if you let the queen live they come back in control of the reapers?
    Well guess what, if you kill the queen the reapers dig up another random rachni queen and you have to fight them anyway!
    That, combined with the "push button get ending" is the real reason ME3 was garbage. It isn't the fact it didn't live up to its own promise, its that it outright obviously didn't even try.

     

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  42.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jan 14th, 2014 @ 6:20pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Not buying Dragon Age 3...

    Oh come now. Even if you don't like the ending of ME3

    I don't know whether I like the ending or not since I never came that far. I preferred to save my braincells further atrocities about halfway in.

    you've got to admit the rest of the game was pretty damn good. Not as good as ME2 sure but very good nonetheless.

    ME2 had some good pieces drowned by the abysmal main plot, but 3 had absolutely no redeeming qualities.
    It features no player agency, it ignores your choices and it tries to force you to watch a shitty movie with idiotic setpieces, horrible cutscenes, and a retarded story, by making you click buttons. Wait...

    The opening mission with the invasion of Earth is one of the most impressive sights I've seen in a computer game.

    You liked that crap?

    I also spent a long time playing the multiplayer, although it was rather limited.

    Oo yeah, mandatory(?) multiplayer, affecting the singleplayer campaign. How couldn't I like that...

    ------------

    Well, R. Daneel Olivaw, I guess it depends on how you came to the series:
    If you come from the PC RPG crowd the the game is shit, and just another evidence that bioware is dead
    If however you come from the CoD crowd bioEA tries to cater to now, you will probably lack the cerebral capabilities to see the flaws inherent in it, so you can drool all over your controler while watching teh awsum spess marine walkin trough cinematics that make Micheal Bay look like Shakespeare.

     

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  43.  
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    That One Guy (profile), Jan 14th, 2014 @ 11:12pm

    Re: Re: Re:

    How can they profit from mods that are available online for free (or they also prohibit uploading your own work for free to anywhere?)

    Convenience. The mod may be available for free elsewhere, but that requires people knowing it's legally available elsewhere(because if they can claim to have made a mod, how do you tell what's fan-made and legally available for free, and what's an illegally uploaded copy of an 'official' mod?), knowing where to look, figuring out how to install it and get it to work, vs. 'Pay money, click link, mod installs'.

    Regarding the last bit, if you're talking about this sentence 'You also agree to promptly execute assignments confirming this license upon request from EA' I believe it's 'just' making you legally bound to sign over any of your creations if they feel like claiming them, by signing any legal papers they send your way regarding such.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  44.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jan 15th, 2014 @ 9:58am

    Man, Screw That Mess

    I hopped on the Sim's 3 bandwagon when it came out because I remember the hours upon hours of Sim's content I played around with....until I got about 100 modded walls in, and the game crashed to where I had to do a fresh install.

    I haven't touched it since, and I am now done with any SIM game of any sort.

    I'll just keep playing WoW. At least they are starting to do a little bit of that kinda thing (even if it's not as much customization as I want, yet. With Ghostcrawler out of the picture, maybe we can get some more of that type of thing built in now.)

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  45.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jan 17th, 2014 @ 7:03am

    I was totally wanting to make a mod that shrinks down every asset in the game so it would actually feel like a bigger plot. Of course considering nothing is allowed other then reskin's ill just go back to not playing again. The offline mode i don't really care for personally, but i do really care about the modding community being given no freedom, and far as i see, no tools to mod with.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  46.  
    identicon
    Voice of Reason, Feb 13th, 2014 @ 7:20pm

    Re: EA "customers" are morons

    First off, appropriate screen name. Fitting for your brand of stupidity inspired paranoia.

    You do realize, of course, that no company could exist without it's customers, right? Business practices, pricing, content availability, etc. are all determined by the willingness of individuals to choose. Companies are simply facilitators in this equation.

    I'm sure that you fancy yourself an enlightened chap, so maybe think rationally before you post in the future, hmm?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]


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