FBI And CIA Use Patriot Act's Bulk Data Collection To Get Money Transfer Data

from the of-course-they-do dept

You didn't think that the bulk collection of phone record information was the only set of records that the intelligence community collected in bulk under the PATRIOT Act, did you? Of course not. That provision says it can be used for "any tangible thing," and since that seems to include bulk data collection, money transfer info sure would be handy for the feds. Both the NY Times and the Wall Street Journal are running fairly detailed stories about this bulk collection of money transfer data, which is managed by the FBI, but where the data is quickly shipped on to the CIA. They claim that they're focused on foreign-foreign transactions, but sometimes they'll collect Foreign-Domestic transfers as well.

The NY Times piece has a fun section describing all the little ways NSA and other intelligence officials have more or less let it slip that a program like this was going on -- but also quotes someone saying that there's at least one more type of bulk collection that hasn't been revealed yet (and it may be more than one). The WSJ article reveals that Congress only just found out about this program over the summer, even though it's been approved by the FISA Court for a while -- so the usual defenses from the NSA's best friends is inevitable: "it's all legal," they'll say. That said, the report also notes that some in Congress were quite worried.

Of course, some others, even those who worked in the government, find this whole thing problematic. The WSJ piece has a great quote from Timothy Edgar, who worked as a private lawyer for the NSA and the Director of National Intelligence, where he basically tells them that this information should be public:
"The public has a right to know about the broad outlines of how the government is collecting information on them," he said, noting that the FISA Court has noted the existence of other collection programs. "As a matter of basic good governance, the government should be more transparent about these kinds of collection programs."
Yeah, but the US isn't really big on "good governance," is it? In the end, this might not be surprising (and should have you wondering about what other data troves the US collects via Section 215), but it's still quite revealing. It also reminds us that the government is likely collecting a lot more that hasn't been revealed yet.


Reader Comments (rss)

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  1.  
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    ChurchHatesTucker (profile), Nov 15th, 2013 @ 11:52am

    Now we'll get something done

    Rich people are finally feeling the heat.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  2. This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
     
    identicon
    out_of_the_blue, Nov 15th, 2013 @ 12:02pm

    Oh, it's a "limited hangout": THEY DO WANT YOU TO KNOW!

    Again, here's Naomi Wolf from way back now:
    From the standpoint of the police state and its interests — why have a giant Big Brother apparatus spying on us at all times — unless we know about it?
    http://www.cryptogon.com/?p=35659

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  3.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Nov 15th, 2013 @ 12:07pm

    Re: Now we'll get something done

    Its is getting close, but to make them really sweat requires collection of credit card data.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  4.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Nov 15th, 2013 @ 12:12pm

    Pissing into the wind

    Despite all this global monitoring, the U.S. has proven unable to stop the flow of arms, ammo, explosives and cash to the Taliban insurgents in Afghanistan.

    Who is funding that pipeline? Why hasn't the U.S. been able to cut it off? Why isn't that question even being discussed? You've got to figure that the national security apparatchiks aren't complete idiots. They've got to know enough to focus on Taliban logistics and financing.

    Maybe it doesn't matter anymore, really. The U.S. isn't just losing in Af/Pak. The U.S. is pretty far down the road to “lost”.

     

     

    P.S. I apologize: Shouldn't use the word “lost”. The U.S. is currently in the middle of the process of “Declaring victory and getting out”.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  5.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Nov 15th, 2013 @ 12:41pm

    Re: Re: Now we'll get something done

    Don't worry, the Obama administration already has the credit card data covered and signed into law so they can legally collect that. The Dodd-Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act, like the Patriot Act, does the opposite of what its name implies.

    http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/07/08/Is-the-Obama-Administration-Collecting-Yo ur-Confidential-Credit-Card-Data

    http://cei.org/news-releases/dodd-frank-unconstitutional-power-grab- says-new-lawsuit

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  6.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Nov 15th, 2013 @ 1:34pm

    Re: Pissing into the wind

    They don't have surveillance cameras in caves and the cell phone reception is shit under that much rock, so none of this is going to do much good.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  7.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Nov 15th, 2013 @ 1:46pm

    'they're focused on foreign-foreign transactions, but sometimes they'll collect Foreign-Domestic transfers as well'

    in other words, they're doing the same with this info as with phone/message info, grabbing the lot and storing it all 'just in case'! is there actually any info that isn't hoovered up, i wonder?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  8.  
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    mr. sim (profile), Nov 15th, 2013 @ 1:58pm

    we are getting sooo close. all we need to make this stop is a leak saying that the bulk data program has access to the information of banks in the camen islands, Switzerland and all the other off shore tax havens. if you want the government to do something that's right and end this once and for all, the rich people need to be angry about this as well.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  9.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Nov 15th, 2013 @ 2:02pm

    Re: Re: Pissing into the wind

    …caves and… …under that much rock…
    Oh, so you're saying all the arms, ammo, explosives and cash just magically pop out of some hole in the ground? How interesting.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  10.  
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    Brandt Hardin, Nov 15th, 2013 @ 2:22pm

    Living in a Society of Fear

    The dystopian fantasies of yesteryear are now a reality. We’ve allowed the coming of an age where the civil liberties our forefathers fought so hard for are being eroded by the day. Freedom of Press, Freedom of Speech and Freedom of Assembly are mere ghostly images of their original intent. We’ve woken up to an Orwellian Society of Fear where anyone is at the mercy of being labeled a terrorist for standing up for rights we took for granted just over a decade ago. Read about how we’re waging war against ourselves at http://dregstudiosart.blogspot.com/2011/09/living-in-society-of-fear-ten-years.html

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]


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