This Weekend's Rally Against NSA Surveillance Gaining Steam
from the join-in dept
If you haven’t been following, a very large coalition of folks worried about NSA surveillance activities have put together the Stop Watching Us Rally, taking place on this Saturday in DC. As folks prepare for the rally, it appears to be gaining a lot of steam and support, including via an excellent new video featuring a combination of politicians, actors, activists and whistleblowers talking about the importance of our privacy.
The NSA’s supporters keep acting like this is no big deal and it will all blow over, but that seems less and less likely.
Filed Under: dc, nsa, nsa surveillance, rally, stop watching us
Comments on “This Weekend's Rally Against NSA Surveillance Gaining Steam”
The NSA is out of control.
The NSA is out of control. If the President ordered them today to stop surveillance on U.S. citizens, Germany, France, the U.K., Australia, and Japan, would they? I think not. The NSA is above (or below) the law and the U.S. Constitution.
Re: The NSA is out of control.
Let’s face it, President Obama pays lip service to transparency just like Ex-President Bush. I wouldn’t be surprised to see him walk out in his birthday suit and be complemented by Alexander and Clapper on how well it looks on him.
Re: Re: The NSA is out of control.
Let’s face it, President Obama pays lip service to transparency just like Ex-President Bush.
I don’t remember Bush ever talking about transparency.
Re: The NSA is out of control.
We need this protest to grow to hundreds of thousands, sadly the teaparty has made a big thing of being behind the protest and organizing it, and becasue of this a lot of people will not be there, this was supposed to be a non political protest but sadly has ended up being a right wing protest and that means thousands who would have thought of joining will not, that is unless other groups are big enough to drown out the teaparty activists.
Re: Re: The NSA is out of control.
Someone has been reading too much Salon. Oh, an Ohio branch of the Tea Party signed the petition, that means they are now in control of the entire rally!
Yeah, no.
Re: Re: The NSA is out of control.
We need this protest to grow to hundreds of thousands, sadly the teaparty has made a big thing of being behind the protest and organizing it, and becasue of this a lot of people will not be there, this was supposed to be a non political protest but sadly has ended up being a right wing protest and that means thousands who would have thought of joining will not, that is unless other groups are big enough to drown out the teaparty activists.
Nice to see Techdirtbags aligned with Teabaggers. That’s a match made in heaven.
Re: Re: Re: The NSA is out of control.
Nice to see Techdirtbags aligned with Teabaggers.
Wait, I thought this was a pinko liberal rag. I’m confused.
Re: Re: Re:2 The NSA is out of control.
“Nice to see Techdirtbags aligned with Teabaggers.”
Wait, I thought this was a pinko liberal rag. I’m confused.
It’s the symbiosis of nut jobs.
/S
With 7 billion potential terrorist on this planet can they really afford to not spy on everyone?
Re: /S
With that NSA paranoid thinking? You know nothing of how reality works, like begets like, thoughts are self fulfilling, they bring what they expect. Why do these terrorists consider only the US as the primary world enemy what is it about the US attitude and actions that really pisses them off?
A little bit of self retrospection might be in order here, former friends are now starting to become enemies, why? It couldn’t be because of what the arrogant US does, could it?
Re: /S
Terrorists are nothing to fear so yes there is no need to spy on everyone.
Having my rights taken away over a false fear is more terrorizing than a suicide bomber.
Re: /S
Hang on, it’s only 6,995 million potential terrorists. Plus 5 million potential whistleblowers.
Let’s just disband the NSA, the CIA, and every other federal agency tasked with any sort of responsibility that depends in any way upon foreign and domestic surveillance. It’s not as if knowing what is happening that may have an adverse impact on our national interests and national security are important anyway.
Re: Re:
Let’s just disband the NSA, the CIA, and every other federal agency tasked with any sort of responsibility that depends in any way upon foreign and domestic surveillance. It’s not as if knowing what is happening that may have an adverse impact on our national interests and national security are important anyway.
Has anyone argued that? No. Are you so obnoxious that you have to sink to building up strawmen in your quest to disagree with everything we write? Yes.
You’re incredible.
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Your constant carping about almost everything these agencies do call into question if you really have a firm grasp of what these various agencies are actually doing. You denigrate claims concerning successes associated with possible acts of terrorism. Perhaps some of the claims are overstated (I do not know), but your comments proceed along a consistent line that such claims are obviously false since no details have emerged as definitive proof, and some claims are simply blatant misconduct by the authorities. Maybe some of what you say is correct. Maybe some is not. There is, however, one thing for sure. You have insufficient data in hand to form an informed opinion based upon all relevant facts, and yet that seems not to stop you from declaring what I interpret as a deep seated animus towards these agencies. Of course, it does not help that you have never worked within the systems of government that depend heavily upon classified information and the pressing need to preserve such information in the strictest of confidence. I well understand where you are coming from, but at the same time it is quite easy to recognize a certain naivet? on matters such as these. Do not get me wrong. Is information in many instances over-classified? Of course. Is classification sometimes used to hide screw ups. Probably, though I have personally never witnessed such an instance. Is there information the mere disclosure of which, including if it even exists, can jeopardize our nation’s security? Absolutely. Hence, I do not raise strawmen. I simply parody comments that fall well short of the mark.
BTW, I expect that at some time in the future Snowden will be patted on the back with one hand, and placed in handcuffs with the other. Some may choose to view him solely in the light of being a whistleblower, but those of us who have worked extensively within areas of government heavily dependent upon classified information have substantial questions concerning his activities and as a consequence have a significantly different perspective.
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“Of course, it does not help that you have never worked within the systems of government that depend heavily upon classified information and the pressing need to preserve such information in the strictest of confidence. I well understand where you are coming from, but at the same time it is quite easy to recognize a certain naivet? on matters such as these.” Ah, the old “I know better than you ” chestnut. More than enough confirmed information has been brought to light to see that the cost/benefit ratio of the NSA and other intelligence agencies’ actions are skewed and completely Unconstitutional. They, along with their partner corporations, have and are breaking specific laws as well as the law of the land. Their history of abuses before this as well as fresh abuses prove these agencies are essentially organized crime at the state level. So I guess I am saying they have honestly earned Mike’s and anyone’s ‘deep seated animus’ You are like the fictional ‘good cop’ that does nothing when bad cops do bad and then complain when people justifiably call all cops corrupt thugs.
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“More than enough confirmed information has been brought to light to see that the cost/benefit ratio of the NSA and other intelligence agencies’ actions are skewed and completely Unconstitutional.”
Cost/benefit constitutionality !!!!
Is that why its ok for Google to spy, and NSA not so much ?
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Google “spying” = I know what they do and have given them permission.
NSA spying = Intercepting vast quantities of private communications well above and beyond their remit that are arguably illegal, breach national sovereignty and cause chilling effects with little or no oversight.
Google “spying” != NSA spying
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“Google “spying” = I know what they do and have given them permission.”
oh right, and you think Google wants or cares if you “give permission” or not, and how do you “know what they are doing”???
Oh that’s right, you don’t have a clue, and you certainly are not going to find out about it here !
And finally, do you think if you have not “given your permission” it would make ANY difference to what Google does ?
So you don’t really know what they are doing, and they don’t give a shit if you give your permission OR NOT, so your point is again ?
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Of course it does. If I’m not using Google’s services and am blocking all traffic to Google, it absolutely makes a difference. Google can no longer spy on me.
There is no such option with governmental spying.
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“Your constant carping about almost everything these agencies do call into question if you really have a firm grasp of what these various agencies are actually doing.”
If he had a ‘firm grip” on what these agencies were really doing he would not have to rely on ‘questionable’ information from a single source (Snowden) for all his information.
I have yet to see anything ‘from’ Snowden that I trust, nor do I trust Snowden himself, Though I have seen enough of Snowden’s actions to make me question his motives and integrity.
Like integrity, trust is earned, and its earned by actions not words.
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“You have insufficient data in hand to form an informed opinion based upon all relevant facts, and yet that seems not to stop you from declaring what I interpret as a deep seated animus towards these agencies.”
An agency dealing in classified information cannot expect the benefit of the doubt. They need to release sufficient information to justify their practices. We need to cut back on government spending. These programs cost a lot of money. Prove they are worth it.
If the agency can’t find some way to declassify sufficient information to make that case, then the agency must lose a substantial portion of its funding in order to force disclosure.
If the people cannot exercise their rights over their government, even to the point of disbanding these agencies completely if that is their choice, then this is not a free country. The only free and democratic solution to an uninformed populace is to inform them. If the NSA refuses, then the tyrannical organization is a greater threat to our freedom than anything they are guarding against.
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There has yet to be such a claim provided with evidence. Without evidence, the claim is worthless.
But even aside from that, the claim is irrelevant. The domestic spying is abominable and unconstitutional. If the program were 100% effective, that wouldn’t make the spying more acceptable or magically transform it into being constitutional.
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There are many instances where providing such evidence places at risk how such evidence was acquired…redending it difficult, if not impossible, to use the acquisition method. I am not saying that this is always the case, but it cannot be discounted.
Re: Re: Re:3 Re:
The use of said information to make an arrest also places the evidence at risk, as the adversary is going to attempt to determine the source of the breach which led to the arrest. There is no method of observation that does not leave some trace by which they may be discovered.
It is foolishly naive of the intelligence community if they are actually relying on their spying methods to remain secret. This simply opens the door for a misinformation campaign.
As such, the gain from secrecy surrounding already deployed and in use methods is far to tenuous to be a substantial case when set against the harm caused by what is a civil rights violation.
Re: Re: Re:4 Re:
Whoops, misinformation => counterintelligence.
Re: Re: Re:3 Re:
I understand that, but that’s beside the point. The point is that absent the evidence (whatever the reason for the evidence’s absence), any claim by the government is worthless as it amounts to just a wordier version of “trust us.”
Re: Re: Re:
so “defund” and “disband” have different meanings ?? you support the concept of “defunding” but you don’t believe not paying them is the same as ‘disbanding’ them.
You may not have argued for ‘disbanding’ them but I certainly know you have argued to ‘defund’ them. Or is that just TD ‘tricky’ word play ?
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A person with no spelling capability at all has no grounds insulting other people over “word play”.
That’s correct, Senator. There is no bulk collection of NSA-supporting politicians’ names under this rally.
(hee, hee)
What makes you believe that rally will be allowed to proceed once it starts? Some political type will find an excuse to shut them down ASAP. Can’t have actual controversy in the Nation’s Capital, now can we??!?!
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Not to mention anyone involved in that rally will be labelled as a terrorist and scrutinized extra heavily.
Re: Re:
Streisand effect.
Also, maintaining an illusion of free speech helps the Government’s position.
Re: Re:
Nah, they’ll just make a few phone calls and every major news outlet will suddenly find more ‘interesting’ things to cover. After all, as far as the news is concerned, if no-one hears about it, it didn’t happen.
Re: Re: Re:
“they’ll just make a few phone calls and every major news outlet will suddenly find more ‘interesting’ things to cover”
so are you already trying to think up excuses why no one comes to this, and ‘the rest’ don’t care.. nice work..
The Media WILL BE SOMEWHERE ELSE, and certainly doing something MORE INTERESTING, but they wont need to be told to do that.
See, Major news reports on “major news” and things that are of interest to the majority.
Quite honestly, no one cares anymore, and most don’t share the unnatural hate for the Government that TD and Mr Masnick tries to incite.
So you right that the major news wont be there, but wrong as to why they wont.
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And this is why the Civil Rights movement failed in the 60’s.
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http://rt.com/usa/stop-watching-us-rally-791/
SUCK IT!
Re: Re: Re:2 Re:
Sorry, too busy laughing to pay you any attention. So not only was there a pitiful showing, but it appears that the platy numbers were bolstered by the usual professional malcontents, the insane and scores of homeless who add to the wall of flesh in order to take advantage of free refreshments and spare change opportunities.
The first rule of DC cause-related protests, is don’t be embarrassing. This was, by even the most charitable yardstick, an abject failure. You don’t scare official Washington with group of 1000 that includes Code Pink (pacifists) gay groups, Teabaggers, black activist groups, Occupy Wall Street and the homeless. Those groups were there to wave their flag for their cause. They were there for the free publicity (such as it was).
Re: Re:
More controversy coming to the Capital Nov. 5th
http://millionmaskmarch.org/
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I’ll bet you have more law enforcement that protesters for this one. It will be a surveillance bonanza. Though it sounds like a clusterfuck in the making since the claim is that no one is in charge. What this usually means is that people will mill around in Halloween masks for awhile, get cold and bored- then head over to Starbucks for a latte before going home- having been tagged as a member of the cyberterrorist group (as they’re regarded in DC) Anonymous. Have fun kids!!
Re: Re:
Well, it actually happened, and no one stopped it. For the most part, no one reported on it, either. Reuters had one piece on it:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/10/26/us-usa-security-protest-idUSBRE99P0B420131026
but that’s about it for major outlets.
ABC – nothing
CBS – nothing
CNBC – nothing
CNN – nothing
Fox – nothing
NBC – short video: http://www.nbcnews.com/video/nightly-news/53383405/
OTOH, The Guardian had a good piece:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/26/nsa-rally-stop-watching-washington-snowden
but that’s about it across the pond.
In other words, the “rally” got very little attention, anywhere. Sure hope Congress was watching, but I don’t hold out much hope.
.
Going to be response here on TD
6 or 7 people ‘might’ turn up, if the weather is fine, lets just see how this pans out..
Re: Going to be response here on TD
6 or 7 people ‘might’ turn up, if the weather is fine, lets just see how this pans out..
It’s going to be sunny with a high of 58. I wonder if Masnick is coming or if he only comes to DC to lobby; rather than mix with the unwashed. Hell, I doubt if any of Techdirt’s keyboard anarchists will actually show up for this or any other similar event. If you do locate your gonads, please wear your Techdirt t-shirt so the cops will know who’s most in need of a little spritz of teargas. Gorehound, this would be a great event for you. You do nothing but talk. Here’s your big chance to do something and chill with your fellow whack-jobs. Remember ersatz activists; pot is legal in DC now and the cops would probably appreciate it if you offered them a joint. Now that the government shutdown is over, don’t forget to stop by the Jefferson Memorial. The dance floor has been newly resurfaced and is open for business!!!
Re: Re: Going to be response here on TD
For any Techdirtbags living in NY or Philly who are using the excuse that they don’t have the money to attend; that’s no longer valid. Organizers are now desperate enough to have chartered buses at $10/seat. If you fare really broke or have a moral position against paying for stuff, it’s potentially free? and we all know how you like getting something of value for nothing!!!
Hard to believe they’d do this with all of those people already flooding into DC for the opportunity to see the keynote speaker, former Congressman Dennis “I thot I taw a flying saucer” Kucinich. Vendors will be selling limited edition, souvenir tinfoil hats, so get there early!! Also, be sure to smile so the NSA facial recognition software gets a good match for you.
Here’s the link: https://rally.stopwatching.us/gettingthere.html
Re: Re: Re: Going to be response here on TD
It’s kind of funny really.
I recall reading the same type of disdainful comments concerning the SOPA Blackout and the Europe ACTA marches.
If your type of comments are any indicator as to the overall implications of such endeavors then this march is going to be a huge success. Have a nice day!
Re: Going to be response here on TD
Try thousands, dirtbag.
http://rt.com/usa/stop-watching-us-rally-791/
Re: Re: Going to be response here on TD
Hahahaha, you are using Russia Today as a source? What’s wrong, didn’t Tehran Daily didn’t cover the story? The fact is they may have gotten to 1000. Pretty piss poor given the fulminations of Techdirtbag Nation. I wonder if we should have a roll call to see how many keyboard anarchists actually showed up. So far, it sounds like zero.
Shit, they didn’t even get as many protestors as The Million Puppet March – where approximately 1,500 people and puppets marched in support of continued funding for public broadcasting. How embarrassing is that?
So looks like “c” is for cookie and “f” is for failure.
The revolution will be livestreamed.
A rally against the NSA Surveillance? Well, we understand now how the FBI, the local police departments, the major banks, and I imagine the DHS and the NSA was in it as well up to their eyeballs when OWS showed up in NYC and in Oakland.
I have no doubt these people wanting better and expecting better from their government that represents them as well as the politicians put there not to work on their own ideology but rather to do the will of the people will in for some serious candid camera shots from various hidden places as well as out in the public areas.
You know as much camera stuff is going on, I am very surprised there isn’t already an underground doing something about the spying by rendering cameras inoperable in one form or another. I don’t think it would take a lot more to push the public that way.
The arrogance of the US is coming home to roost. I don’t imagine the officials that set it all up (those still in office that is) will be too happy with it. So far from those officials mostly we have had a lot of lying and misdirection but very little on the side of let’s fix this to guarantee the public it’s right to privacy. That particular part I am yet to hear in all this from them. It’s like those words leave a bad taste in their mouths or something. Nothing short of that is going to calm the public down.
Re: NSA Protest in WashedOut DC
Very Well Said! Hear enthusiastic applause! (no sarcasm intended. I agree with you)
There’s one fundamental problem with that. Politics is all about filling the sky with hot air and actually doing nothing, and getting paid for it. It’s easy to talk a good fight for a while, then, after a couple of days, the public’s (read that Media’s) attention moves on and the pols forget about what was said and ignores any agreements made. We need to continue the sort of internet rage that happened over SOPA and PIPA to get anything done. Maybe it will happen here. Hope so. Also, because of the planetary nature of the internet, such attention is no longer limited to CONUS, but extends world-wide.
“Ah, the old “I know better than you ” chestnut”
It’s not that ‘he knows better than you’ it’s that he knows something and it appears you don’t !!
is it possible he does not live in a world of absolutes, its clear he understand that people will abuse things, as also he understands that its quite stupid to just state “no good has ever come from this” or that “all this spying has never helped stop or slow down a terrorist”.
The world is not binary, nothing is perfect, rarely are things “black and white” or “one or zero”, that a large organization ‘can never make mistakes’ that a large organization can never have individuals who abuse their position.
People will simply not take you seriously if you claim that a group like the NSA can be perfect, and at the same time assume nothing they do has ANY affect on what they are trying to do.
Or that somehow a group like the NSA would be able to determine terrorist activity without first looking at a wide community.
How do expect someone to identify if someone or a group is conducting terrorists activity with first looking ? and if you look, that does not mean they are doing anything wrong, they might be or they might not, but how can you possibly tell without first looking.
Also if you constantly “USE/ABUSE” the NSA as a vehicle for your hatred of the Government, it devalues your argument, yes, we know you got a hate on for the Government, you hate everything they do, therefore you attack the NSA because its the present “whipping boy”. But it does not help your argument one bit to do that.
In sporting terms its called “playing the man, and not the ball”
It appears you don’t like spying, unless that spying is “on your side” then you are totally happy with it, and will use the product of that spying for your own gains. So which is it ?
So spying is ok as long as its you doing it ? but nothing the Government does is ever ok, because well its THE GOVERNMENT !!!!
So Google spying is ok, after all it what puts food on the table for you. But it “the (evil) Government” does it its evil.
If Snowden does it its ok, because you gain from it, if Google does it that’s ok too because you gain from it.
If NSA does it, that is not ok, because its the “Govment”. They are only doing it to try to help protect the people, not gouge money from people or to directly profit you.
People see this as a problem for you, yet it appears you cannot see it. Rage and hate will do that !!!
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tl;dr
You’re raging pretty hard yourself, judging by how incoherently you type.
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“You’re raging pretty hard yourself, judging by how incoherently you type.”
oh right, what about ?
Re: Re:
Or that a large organization would abuse their power as a matter of policy. You’re correct, no person or entity is perfect and there will always be abuses. That’s exactly why there are certain types of powers that they should never be allowed to have. Such as the power to spy on everyone without cause.
When you take someone’s expression of deep concern over specific actions and say that’s just a symptom of some blanket hatred, you weaken your argument considerably. It’s a combination of a straw man and ad hom argument. In sporting terms its called “playing the man, and not the ball.”
This borders on the nonsensical, but let me try to spell it out for you.
Blanket government spying on the citizens is not OK for a lot of very solid reasons (which is why it’s unconstitutional). It is destructive to individuals, and destructive to the nation.
Snowden and Google are not the government, do not have the power of government, can’t throw you in prison, ruin you financially, or kill you with impunity.
And you cannot compare Google spying with governmental spying, as Google’s spying is optional. It’s easy to avoid, and there is no law requiring you to submit to it. The government’s spying is non-optional.
Irrelevant. History has show repeatedly that when the government is allowed to do things like this, the end result is always a terrible one. Even if the initial intentions are good and pure, eventually the power will be abused and innocent people will be harmed.
Besides, the government doesn’t get to choose what freedoms the citizens have.
Hope it’s huge! I can’t be physically there but I hope everything runs smooth.
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OH it will run smoothly, so smooth in fact you wont even notice anyone there!!
"Gaining Steam".
Gaining Momentum, or “building up steam” would be more correct teams, “gaining steam” really does not make a lot of sense.
Asking “please do not spy” will not stop it but it will raise awareness.
Re: Re:
This isn’t asking. Going to a rally is saying, “This issue is important to me and I’m involved enough in politics to get lots of other people to vote based on this issue. Oh, and there are lots of others just like me.”
A rally like this one, where the point of the rally is well and clearly made, can have significant effects in its own right. The lobby day and the petition make it very difficult to dispute the point of the rally.
Hundreds march in Washington against NSA spying
Via Google News: Top Stories
?Hundreds march in Washington against NSA spying?, Chicago Tribune (Reuters), Oct 26, 2013
Re: Hundreds march in Washington against NSA spying
Also via Google News: Top Stories
?Anti-NSA rally attracts thousands to march in Washington?, by Bart Jansen and Carolyn Pesce, USA Today, Oct 26, 2013
Reuters says hundreds, USA Today says thousands?
real attendance - you judge
It’s pretty simple to judge attendance at the event yourself, just go look at the pictures online. Hint: You won’t find a single overhead crowd shot or a “big crowd” shot, because there wasn’t one. Media reports vary between “hundreds” and the EFF supplied “thousands”. For the most part, it looks like a very small group with very large signs, most of it seems fairly tame.
I don’t think that this movement caught on, perhaps a reflection that the vast majority of people aren’t concerned, because they have nothing to hide.
Re: real attendance - you judge
There once was a horse with no name, who greatly disliked it when due process was enforced.