President Obama Asks Congress To Give Up Its Oversight On Secret TPP Agreement

from the that's-not-a-good-thing dept

We've talked a few times about how the USTR and the administration are asking Congress for "trade promotion authority," which would effectively let it bypass Congressional oversight of the Trans Pacific Partnership (TPP) agreement. In fact, in many ways the USTR has been acting as if it already has this. The specifics of "trade promotion authority" or "fast track authority" are a bit down in the weeds, but the short version is that it's the administration asking Congress to completely abdicate its authority and mandate in overseeing international trade agreements. Basically, it removes the ability of Congress to seek any fixes or amendments to a trade agreement -- only allowing them to give a yes or no vote.

This might not be such a big deal if the TPP wasn't negotiated in near total secrecy. We've been told that a final agreement is getting close, but no official text has been released at all. What we know of the IP section is one draft that leaked out from well over a year ago. And, now, we're going to get a product that will be released to the public with little time for debate and no way to make changes should the public point out how ridiculous and dangerous it is.

And, of course, President Obama is insisting it's necessary to undermine the authority of Congress with a secret agreement that will have tremendous impact on Americans... just because he wants it. He announced to "the President’s Export Council" that "We're going to need Trade Promotion Authority." Let's be clear: the only reason the administration "needs" TPA is so that it can ram through the agreement without letting Congress do its oversight job. Trade Promotion Authority offers no benefit to the public at all. All it does is make sure that the USTR has less oversight and fewer limitations on selling out the public for a few big special interests.

The "Export Council" which is basically made up of leaders of those big special interests who are looking for protectionist (not "free trade") policies that help their bottom line, but harm the American public, made an even more ridiculous statement:

“We believe that new TPA legislation is critical to America’s trade leadership in the world,” the group said in one of eight letters to Obama it approved at the meeting.
Did you get that? They're claiming that if we actually let Congress do its Constitutionally-mandated job that somehow undermines America's "trade leadership?" Does anyone take this even remotely seriously? Of course, the problem is that very few are paying attention to this. "Trade Promotion Authority" sounds boring and if some big business leaders claims it's necessary, Congress will probably go with it -- even though it subverts their own powers.

If the USTR had actually been transparent, had released negotiating texts so that the public could give feedback, and that feedback was reflected in the eventual agreements, then maybe you could see how trade promotion authority might make sense. But when you have a secret agreement, driven in large part by industry lobbyists, which the public still hasn't been allowed to see, how could anyone possibly have a legitimate reason for suggesting that Congress abdicate its oversight role?



Reader Comments (rss)

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  1.  
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    Zakida Paul (profile), Sep 23rd, 2013 @ 3:35am

    Ah, the silly thing called democracy is getting in the way. Must kill it off once and for all.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Sep 23rd, 2013 @ 3:46am

    America and the rest of the world are well past the point of no return when it comes to "free trade". I see the Federal Reserve decided not to cut it's 85 billion dollar a month quantitative easing money printing program. Excuse me, bond printing program.

    I'm sure the globalized race to the bottom has nothing to do with the world's sluggish economies. I say push the pedal to the metal on free trade. It's been working great so far. Let's see what this puppy's can really do!

     

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  3.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Sep 23rd, 2013 @ 3:48am

    If TPP goes into force...

    ...then we quit. As in quit our jobs, quit buying from its supporters, quit obeying their laws, and even quit living. If the corporations are so important to them, then I guess the corporations will have to support them all by themselves.

    Good luck having a kingdom without serfs, Dear Leader.

     

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  4.  
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    That Anonymous Coward (profile), Sep 23rd, 2013 @ 4:00am

    To paraphrase....

    Good evening, 'Merica. Allow me first to apologize for this interruption. I do, like many of you, appreciate the comforts of everyday routine—the security of the familiar, the tranquility of repetition. I enjoy them as much as any bloke. But in the spirit of commemoration, thereby those important events of the past usually associated with someone's death or the end of some awful bloody struggle are celebrated with a nice holiday, I thought we could mark this November the 5th, a day that is sadly no longer remembered, by taking some time out of our daily lives to sit down and have a little chat. There are, of course, those who do not want us to speak. I suspect even now, orders are being shouted into telephones, and men with guns will soon be on their way. Why? Because while the truncheon may be used in lieu of conversation, words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth. And the truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn't there? Cruelty and injustice, intolerance and oppression. And where once you had the freedom to object, to think and speak as you saw fit, you now have censors and systems of surveillance coercing your conformity and soliciting your submission. How did this happen? Who's to blame? Well, certainly, there are those who are more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable. But again, truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror. I know why you did it. I know you were afraid. Who wouldn't be? War, terror, disease. There were a myriad of problems which conspired to corrupt your reason and rob you of your common sense. Fear got the best of you, and in your panic you turned to the now high chancellor, Adam Sutler. He promised you order, he promised you peace, and all he demanded in return was your silent, obedient consent. Last night, I sought to end that silence. Last night, I destroyed the Old Bailey to remind this country of what it has forgotten. More than four hundred years ago, a great citizen wished to embed the fifth of November forever in our memory. His hope was to remind the world that fairness, justice, and freedom are more than words—they are perspectives. So if you've seen nothing, if the crimes of this government remain unknown to you, then I would suggest that you allow the fifth of November to pass unmarked. But if you see what I see, if you feel as I feel, and if you would seek as I seek, then I ask you to stand beside me one year from tonight, outside the gates of Parliament, and together we shall give them a fifth of November that shall never, ever be forgot.

    They are working our reality to be like these fictions, perhaps it is time we follow suit.

     

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  5.  
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    Ninja (profile), Sep 23rd, 2013 @ 4:03am

    The ultimate goal is for the Executive to hold all powers of all three branches of the Government. You see, makes their jobs easier.

     

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  6.  
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    Rikuo (profile), Sep 23rd, 2013 @ 4:11am

    Re: To paraphrase....

    Can it be called a a paraphrase when all you've done is switched one country for another? Oh and please tell me you typed that all out from memory, you didn't just do a copy and paste.

     

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    FM HIlton, Sep 23rd, 2013 @ 4:12am

    SOP

    "And, of course, President Obama is insisting it's necessary to undermine the authority of Congress with a secret agreement that will have tremendous impact on Americans... just because he wants it."

    He's been doing this for a while, hasn't he? This isn't the first instance, nor the last.

    For a President who was supposedly a Constitutional scholar at Harvard, he sure doesn't get the Constitution, does he?

    You know the part where it says:
    "He shall have Power, by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, "
    US Constitution, Clause 2: Advice and Consent Clause

    Notice the words "Advice and Consent"-big stick, and one that Congress will use if he doesn't stop pushing their buttons.

     

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  8.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Sep 23rd, 2013 @ 4:22am

    Re:

    Actually truely free trade is an oxymoron if it has to be negotiated...

    However, since free trade sounds better than neo-protectionism, neo-bullionism or straight up blackmail it is the word served to the dear representatives.

    Btw. the export council is completely correct that TPA is a necessity if you define "trade leadership" as - the biggest companies in the country writing the trade agreements to its own advantage (and the detriment to domestic and foreign competitors as well as the detriment of the public implicitly and explicitly).

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Sep 23rd, 2013 @ 4:29am

    bye bye constitution, bye bye congress

    hello authoritarianism, hello Hitler 2

    all citizens rights are being removed as it is ,one by one, a bit at a time! what is going on here? it seems to me that this is going to bring in more surveillance, more NSA and similar spying on everyone, more 'we can do what we like now, and dont even have to inform you first!'

    if Congress allows this to happen, you kiss goodbye to any and all rights of the people! you can say hello to companies and industries doing whatever they like with no recourse to those buying and using stuff!

    the USA has now gone so far off track that to get it back is going to be almost impossible! industries like Hollywood and their like in the recording industries are dictating what will happen and no one is trying to stop it.
    when the President himself is asking for the removal of any way to challenge what a particular section of the government is doing and wants to do, there is serious shit attached and it aint gonna be for the benefit of the people!! this is turning the USA faster to a dictatorship! what an absolute disgrace it has become!!

     

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  10.  
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    That Anonymous Coward (profile), Sep 23rd, 2013 @ 4:30am

    Re: Re: To paraphrase....

    shall we just file this under one of those reasons we should have an edit button and move on?
    twitchy clicky finger and all that.

     

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  11.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Sep 23rd, 2013 @ 4:49am

    Actually more congressmen and senators know about this and are pretty reluctant to give up anything, you forget we're dealing with a congress and senate that is obsessed with party purity and partisanship and because Obama is a Democrat the house will naturally be agenst it.

    It's called a Do Nothing Congress.

     

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    silverscarcat (profile), Sep 23rd, 2013 @ 4:55am

    I've already told both of my Senators to not let Obama fast track this.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Sep 23rd, 2013 @ 5:04am

    Ahh free trade, like NAFTA that caused the US to go from a near exporter to Mexico, to Mexico being the net exporter to the US by a giant margin.

    The idiots on the Supreme Court have already undermined congress on treaty issues by basically saying the president can pass whatever treaty they want without congress' approval by simply renaming it an 'executive agreement'.


    Unfortunately the only hope to stop ACTA is to convince Republicans to oppose it because Obama supports it, and to get a few democrats like Elizabeth Warren and a few others who have already spoken out against ACTA to join them.

     

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    kenichi tanaka (profile), Sep 23rd, 2013 @ 5:23am

    This is a common tactic of Democrats, made popular by Nancy Pelosi during that whole absurd "health care reform" debate, which was actually a 'mandated health insurance' program having nothing to do with health care reform.

    Democrats pull this stunt because they have learned that the more time you give congress to think about bills, the more they're willing to deny the bill, or have reservations about the bill.

     

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  15.  
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    lucidrenegade (profile), Sep 23rd, 2013 @ 5:23am

    Re:

    As have I, though I doubt it will do any good.

     

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  16.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Sep 23rd, 2013 @ 5:25am

    Obama? who's that?

    Congress? who's that?

    Law? what law?

     

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  17.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Sep 23rd, 2013 @ 5:28am

    Well why not, Congress has already abdicated its oversight responsibility in so many other areas.

     

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  18.  
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    Draph91 (profile), Sep 23rd, 2013 @ 5:33am

    wait is this happpening as we speak?

     

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  19.  
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    Natai (profile), Sep 23rd, 2013 @ 5:44am

    One branch of the government attempting to cirumvent the other is not acceptable, and so I must agree that this effort to remove Congress from the equation is also unacceptable.

    However, it does seem worth pointing out that these days Congress seems intent on doing whatever is necessary to avoid doing its job. I find it difficult to defend a group who routinely avoids scheduling votes because they don't agree with the likely outcome. If we're going to scream about democracy under attack...

    Anyway, this article suggests that there is no way to fix the TPP, but states that Congress still has to vote on it. So, what happens if Congress votes No? Wouldn't it end up being renegotiated so Congress could approve it?

     

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  20.  
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    Greevar (profile), Sep 23rd, 2013 @ 5:49am

    Re:

    Nothing short of nation wide revolution is going to change anything. And then, we have to watch out so that the puppet masters that ruled this government doesn't rule the next.

     

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  21.  
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    The Real Michael, Sep 23rd, 2013 @ 5:53am

    Re: SOP

    I'm quite certain that Obama understands the Constitution. The question is, does he respect it and, by extension, the People whose rights it protects from government overreach? His determination to undermine it at every opportunity indicate that he doesn't. In fact, seems to me that this administration is hellbent on doing away with it.

     

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  22.  
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    That Anonymous Coward (profile), Sep 23rd, 2013 @ 5:55am

    And while the different parts of the Government are engaging in pissing contests over who can sell out to corporations faster, they seem to have forgotten that they are supposed to represent the interests of the voters who like idiots elected them to run the country... not run the country into the ground.

     

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  23.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Sep 23rd, 2013 @ 6:17am

    Re:

    If such a a thing happens then TPP will fall apart because without the US it has no chance in the other member nations.

     

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  24.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Sep 23rd, 2013 @ 6:18am

    Re:

    It's at a drafting stage tohugh form reading the linked Poltico articles it's encountering alot of resistance mainly from Democrats but also some Republicans.

     

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  25.  
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    Erik Grant, Sep 23rd, 2013 @ 6:55am

    The more I read Techdirt, the more I feel like I'm reading the Fox News of the tech sector. There could at least be a thin veil of impartial news reporting before accusing Obama of being a constitution-burning powermonger.

    If only there were some reason the president might want to sidestep Congress's ability to sidestep legislation.... I guess it could have to do with the 40 votes to repeal Obamacare, and the fact that they try to attach an amendment to repeal Obamacare to unrelated legislation every chance they get.

    I know the post is bitter, but damnit, I know the author of the news story is aware of the political reality too. Just report the damn news.

     

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  26.  
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    Anonymous Anonymous Coward, Sep 23rd, 2013 @ 7:16am

    Reversed Roles

    "This might not be such a big deal if the TPP wasn't negotiated in near total secrecy. We've been told that a final agreement is getting close, but no official text has been released at all. What we know of the IP section is one draft that leaked out from well over a year ago. And, now, we're going to get a product that will be released to the public with little time for debate and no way to make changes should the public point out how ridiculous and dangerous it is."

    So, what you are trying to say is that 'these guys' have better security than the NSA? Is there some sort of weird role reversal taking place here? The group with NO security requirement keeps its secrets while the group with nothing BUT security requirements is a leaky colander.

     

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  27.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Sep 23rd, 2013 @ 7:16am

    This IP BS is so important that the White House is personally trying to brainwash children now.

    http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2013/09/mpaa-school-propaganda/

    No wonder they want all the power consolidate in their hands.

     

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  28.  
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    The Real Michael, Sep 23rd, 2013 @ 8:04am

    Re:

    You fail to mention what a disaster of epic proportions Obamacare truly is. It will encourage employers to hire illegal immigrants and cut employee work hours/benefits. Furthermore, it went from costing a whopping $1 trillion to a gargantuan $2.6 trillion. Guess who's footing the bill?

    Frankly, I fail to see a valid reason why Techdirt shouldn't cover something as significant as the TPP as it represents a potentially devastating corporate power grab.

     

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  29.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Sep 23rd, 2013 @ 8:08am

    Re:

    True, but the more disturbing thing is what some people are willing to do to "protect" the "freedom" and "democracy" of this country....

    It's not people with bad intentions killing off freedom and democracy, it's the fact that the public has lost control that's killing it off.

    Without the public having the power to keep the government honest, the government can gain too much power which in turns allows people (even those with good intentions) the power to do evil things.

     

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  30.  
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    Hephaestus (profile), Sep 23rd, 2013 @ 8:08am

    Re: To paraphrase....

    Weird thing I read that an heard it in V's voice ...

     

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  31.  
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    Namel3ss (profile), Sep 23rd, 2013 @ 8:37am

    Re: SOP

    The only reason obama would ever have been a constitutional scholar is so he would know and understand how to destroy it. This is borne out by his actions in office these last 5 years.

     

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  32.  
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    Tiernoc, Sep 23rd, 2013 @ 9:04am

    Re: SOP

    Congress would have to be less of a room full of squabbling children before that could take place...

     

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  33.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Sep 23rd, 2013 @ 9:15am

    Re:

    Traditionally trade agreements are accepted without much national scrutiny. ACTA was one of the first times a consent has ever been withheld after completion of the text. Admittedly the framework and transparency around several of the newer deals are far worse than ever before in the short history of "free trade agreements" and the post-negotiation votes rushed, while lobbying is ramped up to 11.
    Still, the tradition of always voting yes after finalizing trade agreements, if asked, is so ingrained that representatives are almost forced to go with the flow.

    It is also a limited information blackmail where the representatives will be haunted by the "why didn't you say something before the treaty was finalized?" and "Our support depends on you supporting the causes we need and this is one of them." from most of the corporate backers, the negotiators and the administration.

     

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  34.  
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    bshock, Sep 23rd, 2013 @ 9:30am

    hard to believe Republicans fabricate scandals

    The TPP was around before Obama was president, but any president who backs this grotesque, massively destructive end-run around the U.S. Constitution has committed an impeachment-level offensive.

     

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  35.  
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    Mike Masnick (profile), Sep 23rd, 2013 @ 9:31am

    Re:

    This is a common tactic of Democrats, made popular by Nancy Pelosi during that whole absurd "health care reform" debate, which was actually a 'mandated health insurance' program having nothing to do with health care reform.

    Uh, Republicans have done this just as much. Last time Trade Promotion Authority was in place was... under GWB.

    Both parties are equally bad about this.

    You gotta let your hatred of a single party go.

     

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  36.  
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    Anonymous, Sep 23rd, 2013 @ 9:48am

    Re:

    > The more I read Techdirt, the more I feel like I'm reading the Fox News of the tech sector.

    While is true that the House (read: Republicans) is obstructionist, and will jump at any reason to oppose Obama, this does not negate that the President is usurping more authority from Congress.

    What people never seem to grasp is the ratcheting affect of power. The power grabs by your guy today will stay in place when the other party takes power, so the centralization of power should be opposed even when done by someone you approve of.

     

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  37.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Sep 23rd, 2013 @ 10:03am

    and what sort of response has Congress given? normally they are falling over each other to get the vote done and dusted so they can go home early. any reason to think this will be any different? they have already proven time and again that they dont give a toss about the people, being there simply for the easy job and the money (and i mean more than just the salary!)

     

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  38.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Sep 23rd, 2013 @ 10:14am

    This is the only way they can get it through....illegally.
    Don't expect me to respect any law passed in this way.

     

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  39.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Sep 23rd, 2013 @ 10:50am

    Re:

    And lucrative - See Putin...worth $47B

     

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  40.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Sep 23rd, 2013 @ 10:58am

    Re: Re:

    The problem - the so-called media was consistently pounding GWB on every move (Truth to Power).

    The lame stream media is "turning the other cheek" for BHO, in spite of his absolute disdain for the Constitution.

    So no, not the same...

     

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  41.  
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    Erik Grant, Sep 23rd, 2013 @ 11:32am

    Re: Re:

    You're right, and I am not for consolidation of power in the executive branch. I think our system of checks and balances was brilliantly conceived, and I don't think democracy could work without it.

    We have a problem right now where Congress is behaving wildly irresponsibly and it's causing all kinds of hell. They waste no chance pushing partisan agendas, and it seems like they are stuck in a state of perpetual deadlock. Thus, it's no surprise to me that Obama wants to sidestep Congress to get a trade agreement through.

    Now, that said, I don't actually think it's the right solution. At best it only masks the real issue of Congress's inability to govern, and at worst it gives more authority and more potential abuse of power to one branch of government. What should happen is that we fix all of the ways Congress is broken, and then things can continue to work like they are supposed to.

    My complaint about Techdirt is that instead of exploring valid reasons why Obama might want to do it (or leaving off motivations entirely) it seems to ascribe some kind of malign intentions to him. Love him or hate him, I don't think you can realistically say he is trying to ruin the country or create some bizarre authoritarian regime. And, as the article points out, he IS a constitutional scholar. I don't think he woke up and said "Today I'm going to steal the power to make trade agreements from Congress."

    So I would have liked to see some of that explored in the news reporting. More and more it seems like this website just posts editorials.

     

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  42.  
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    ltlw0lf (profile), Sep 23rd, 2013 @ 12:43pm

    Re: Re: To paraphrase....

    Weird thing I read that an heard it in V's voice ...

    Me too. At first, I wasn't paying attention and was just reading it, and then all the sudden it was V talking over the television to me all over again (about the time I realized where it came from.)

    That movie was awesome, in every way, and I sure hope it never comes true.

     

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  43.  
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    art guerrilla (profile), Sep 23rd, 2013 @ 1:07pm

    Re: Re: Re: To paraphrase....

    "...and I sure hope it never comes true."

    i think that is our *only* hope left...

    all the other means of wresting control of 'our' (sic) gummint are being eliminated, stifled, gutted, or ignored: there is no effective electoral choice; there is no means of redress; there is no means of recourse...

    it doesn't matter 90-99% of the people are against war with (fill in the blank/who's left?), we go to war anyway...

    it doesn't matter 90-99% of us wanted single-payer/etc, we get a health insurer's bailout...

    it doesn't matter 90-99% of us wanted banksters to go to the gaol, they get millions in bonuses out of our pockets...

    it doesn't matter 90-99% of us want gay marriage available, constitutionally 'guaranteed' privacy, jobs, universal healthcare, scaled-back military, dismantling the security state, ending the war on _______, we get what our 1% puppetmasters want, *not* what us 99% want/need...

    we can go stand meekly in our 'free speech' pens and scream until we are fucking DEAD, The They (tm) don't give a shit...
    it is only unless/until we actually THREATEN them, that any attention will be paid...

    what is left to us sheeple but to bare our fangs ? ? ?
    it is the ONLY THING the psychopaths in charge will respond to...

    art guerrilla
    aka ann archy
    eof

     

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  44.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Sep 23rd, 2013 @ 4:43pm

    Obama is a puppet, just like the previous presidents, and we all know it.

     

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  45.  
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    A, Sep 23rd, 2013 @ 5:33pm

    Ignorance is Bliss.

    Please read the trade promotion authority, Wikipedia it for Christ's sake before you write an asinine article. TPP and TIPP are landmark pieces of trade legislation which will make America even more competitive in the global market and provide serious incentives to export goods, services, and intellectual property from within our own country and with safeguards for American companies. Please read a US free trade agreement, any of them, and understand the economics behind them before you put gibberish online. Best Regards, A

     

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  46.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Sep 23rd, 2013 @ 5:43pm

    Re: Ignorance is Bliss.

    Seriously though, this is a way to not let an impotent congress stop two landmark trade agreements from falling by the wayside because they're too busy with voting down obamacare for the 43rd time. OH and bush had it from 2002 to 2007. AND WHEN IT EXPIRED TRADE DEALS FELL THROUGH.

     

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    jingoi, Sep 23rd, 2013 @ 10:12pm

    (I now 100% regret voting for obummer)
    this sounds 100% depressing. Is there any kind of hope that this will be re-negotiated with the public able to point out what's fucked up or after it starta or will the 1% get everything they want on their wish list?
    really want some kind of good news.

     

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  48.  
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    That One Guy (profile), Sep 23rd, 2013 @ 10:15pm

    Re: Ignorance is Bliss.

    Funny then for how 'awesome' TPP is supposed to be for america, it's been kept in such secrecy that the only people who realistically have any idea what's in it are those negotiating it, and trade representatives with plenty of incentives to make things as biased towards them as possible.

    Why, you'd almost think they're trying to avoid a repeat of ACTA, where once people found out what was actually in it, as opposed to what they'd been told was in it, they objected so strongly that it was eventually shot down.

     

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  49.  
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    Rikuo (profile), Sep 24th, 2013 @ 3:28am

    Re: Ignorance is Bliss.

    I presume that you're able to state that TPP is great because, unlike the rest of us, you've read the various drafts? If not, why praise something you can't read?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  50.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Sep 24th, 2013 @ 5:22am

    Re: Re:

    And you fail to grasp that we already have national healthcare. Now, treatment is rendered to the poor at the emergency rooms of public hospitals. You may realize that ER care is absolutely the most expensive type of reactive medical care. Prevention and management are far cheaper. But apparently your vision of the problem doesn't extend much further than the end of your nose.

    Also, you are required to insure your motor vehicle as a condition of driving it and if you have a mortgage you're required by the bank to insure your property. It's hard to fathom the whining over insuring your health as well.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  51.  
    icon
    art guerrilla (profile), Sep 24th, 2013 @ 7:22am

    Re: Re: Re:

    so-o-o-o, you *want* Big Daddy to make everything 'right' ? ? ? watch it, your authoritarianism is showing...

    you make an initial statement that *of course* you want 'checks and balances', and then go on to refute that by saying how you think saint obama *has to* do an end run around kongress since they are dysfunctional...

    cass sunstein ? is that you ?

    for the authoritarian-impaired: our system is set up to make us a nation ruled by LAW, not MEN (NO MATTER how well intentioned)...

    REGARDLESS of whether you think choco jesu (OR ANYONE) is a moral paragon who will 'do the right thing' for us 99%, we DO NOT invest all our power in them, because it WILL BE ABUSED when you have a 'bad guy' in power...

    (and -as far as i'm concerned- obomber IS a 'bad guy'...)

    these are first principles which should NEVER be abandoned; were you asleep in civics 101 ? ? ?

    art guerrilla
    aka ann archy
    eof

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  52.  
    identicon
    The Real Michael, Sep 24th, 2013 @ 8:58am

    Re: Re: Re:

    Obamacare will be an economic disaster, hence why it won't be enacted until 2014, intentionally after mid-term elections are over, so that voters aren't affected until after the fact.

    Keep on drinking your kool-aid.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  53.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Sep 25th, 2013 @ 2:14am

    Re: Ignorance is Bliss.

    >Export intellectual property

    It's not "exporting" if you still have a copy of it.

    Hey, if sharing away something and still having a copy of it isn't sharing, selling a copy of something and still having a copy of it isn't selling, either.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  54.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Nov 6th, 2013 @ 3:04pm

    Looks like its time for Internet Blackout of all websites to know about this that are not from the Government.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  55.  
    identicon
    lefty used to be righty, Feb 20th, 2014 @ 5:55pm

    Re: Re: To paraphrase....

    Obama wants to destroy this nation then he can declare martial law and let his Islamic buddies take over so we can have Sharia law

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]


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