Blatant Intimidation: Glenn Greenwald's Partner Detained At Heathrow Under Terrorism Law, All His Electronics Seized

from the obnoxiousness dept

In a move that is clearly driven more to intimidate Glenn Greenwald than anything else, his partner, David Miranda, was detained for nine hours at Heathrow airport, which he was flying through on his way home to Rio de Janeiro from Berlin. On top of that, all of his electronics -- his mobile phone, laptop, camera, memory sticks, DVDs and games consoles -- were seized and not returned. This was nothing but basic government thuggery and intimidation. There is simply no credible reason to detain Miranda other than to "send a message" to Greenwald as punishment for doing his job and exposing government abuse. The law under which he was detained, Schedule 7, is extremely controversial already, but it appears that the UK officials were clearly abusing it.

As Jerome Taylor notes, Schedule 7 makes clear that the "power to stop, question and detain" applies solely for the purpose of "if they fall within section 40(1)(b)," which you can look at here:
40. Terrorist: interpretation.
(1) In this Part “terrorist” means a person who—
(a) has committed an offence under any of sections 11, 12, 15 to 18, 54 and 56 to 63, or
(b) is or has been concerned in the commission, preparation or instigation of acts of terrorism.

(2)The reference in subsection (1)(b) to a person who has been concerned in the commission, preparation or instigation of acts of terrorism includes a reference to a person who has been, whether before or after the passing of this Act, concerned in the commission, preparation or instigation of acts of terrorism within the meaning given by section 1.
In short, the only reason you're supposed to be able to detain someone is to determine if they're involved in committing, preparing or instigating "acts of terrorism." Clearly, that's ridiculous when it comes to even Glenn Greenwald, let alone his partner. The law is already ridiculous enough in that it allows officials to detain anyone, even without suspicion, solely for the purpose of questioning them to see if they fall under this section (i.e., having something to do with terrorism). Under the law, they have nine hours to do this questioning, and then they need to release or arrest the detainee. In this case, they held Miranda for all nine hours. This is not common. As the Guardian points out, the government's own stats show that 97% of people detained under this law are released in less than an hour. Only one person out of every 2000 are kept for more than six hours. Yet, suddenly, they had to hold Miranda for all nine hours and then take all of his electronics?

That's just government thuggery and intimidation.


Reader Comments (rss)

(Flattened / Threaded)

  1.  
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    Marak, Aug 19th, 2013 @ 3:26am

    How did they think this would ever be a good idea?

     

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    Pragmatic, Aug 19th, 2013 @ 3:29am

    So journalism is illegal now? Enjoy the police state, people, and may God have mercy on our souls. They won't.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 19th, 2013 @ 3:49am

    this shows the measure of the UK government. i would also hazard a guess that this was requested/agreed to be done via the USG! Cameron appears to be to Obama as Blaire was to Bush, a shit scared lap dog! it also shows the way governments are going today. no one is safe and to prove the point, anyone/everyone that does nothing wrong but what the governments dont like is being used as an excuse to do similar to the above. the world is very quickly turning from one that looked after and protected people to one that is totally paranoid, not about being attacked but about finding out that there was something, even the minutest thing that wasn't known about someone! does this remind people of situations that have happened before? look at the road that led the world down and what the results were. i hope some sense comes into play before we are forced to retread that same road!! and all because a few powerful, extremely wealthy people are scared of their own shadows!!

     

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    Alana (profile), Aug 19th, 2013 @ 3:50am

    This is sickening.

    The revelations and abuses about and by our government lately have been nothing but pure greed, evil, and power-hungry.

    The root of the problem has so deeply been etched into the government than nothing short of total, violent revolution could topple it. The powers that be a big headed, egotistical, patronizing assholes who have gone full on mommy-state, and at the same time, only seek to line their own damn pockets with gold.

    Unfortunately though, the revolution has taken too long.

    And with it, a lot of hope about turning the US into a great nation.

    They have too much power now.

    Power given to them by their citizens because they weren't constantly vigilant.

    At this point, the only thing I'm hoping for is for more exposure to their crimes against humanity, and for the public to humble them enough for them to realise the way they're destroying lives, families, and nations.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 19th, 2013 @ 3:50am

    How ironic that the government would adopt the terrorist mindset of 'they hate us for our freedom.'

     

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  6.  
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    Alana (profile), Aug 19th, 2013 @ 3:51am

    Re:

    Of course, I know this PARTICULAR story is about the UK. I'm speaking in general terms. But the problem extends further than the US as well. Especially with their blatant bullying of everyone else, pushing them around and throwing their weight over them to do their bidding, "Or else".

     

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    ethorad (profile), Aug 19th, 2013 @ 3:54am

    Miranda is lucky!

    After all, last time the police decided a brazilian was a "terrorist" on no grounds at all, they shot him 8 times as he threateningly sat on a train.

    If they try and claim he looked like a terrorist(?), they'll still have difficulty explaining why their questioning focused on Greenwald's reporting, not on any potential terrorist attacks.

     

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  8.  
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    Alana (profile), Aug 19th, 2013 @ 3:55am

    Re:

    Also, I should note, I'm not from the US, but I'm damn well sure it effects me too. (I'm posting this because I accidentally typed "Our" in that post-- A shame there isn't an edit function, but I can see why an edit function could sometimes be counter productive.)

     

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  9.  
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    ethorad (profile), Aug 19th, 2013 @ 3:58am

    Miranda's rights

    This is the sort of case that could lead to some requirement for the police to ensure that they're not breaching someone's rights when they detain them for questioning on an alleged offence.

    If they do, we could name them after Mr Miranda. How does "David rights" sound?

     

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  10.  
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    FM Hilton, Aug 19th, 2013 @ 4:03am

    Sad part is some approve

    Last night on Twitter, GG posed a couple of rhetorical questions and there were some very disturbing answers:

    "Would it be ok for the UK to invade the Guardian newsroom or the FBI to invade NYT newsroom if they think they have classified doc and detain them for 9 hours?"

    Some people actually believe that it was all right. One of them being an American.

    I just can't believe that there are some people who can justify and rationalize 'anti-terrorism' moves as being productive, especially when it was not anything of the sort with GG and his partner.

    Sheer thuggery and intimidation, indeed. The Mafia would be ashamed of this kind of behavior. Even they would have some standards.

    Here's a 'shopping list' of how to turn a democracy into a dictatorship in 10 easy steps:

    http://www.juancole.com/2013/08/greenwald-terrorist-dictatorship.html?utm_source=twitterfe ed&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+juancole%2Fymbn+%28Informed+Comment%29

    Looks like the UK is following them to the letter. Sad.

     

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    That Anonymous Coward (profile), Aug 19th, 2013 @ 4:06am

    I'm just 'shocked' that the NYT's is reporting that there was a flash drive from Snowden in the effects.

    So they used a 'terrorism' law to detain someone, deny them rights to legal assistance, the right to remain silent, held this person as long as possible for reasons so secret no one can be told why... except the NYT.

    Shall we prosecute the the lackeys who told NYT's about things seized in a terrorism investigation?

    As the advertising people would say, it's time to think Spring.

     

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    Capt ICE Enforcer, Aug 19th, 2013 @ 4:08am

    They had no choice.

    I did some serious investigation on this incident and determined that the authorities had no choice. You see, they discovered an Austin Powers movie and thought it was a terrorist training video from the supreme evil lord Dr Evil. So they needed to find how bad the next attack would be. You understand don't you. I mean come on, if you were in their shoes you would have done the same after you pooped your pants out of terror. I Salute The Authorities You Braved Their Lives.

     

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    Martin, Aug 19th, 2013 @ 4:08am

    Can we be sure the reason was intimidation (alone)?

    Couldn't it be that they suspected that Miranda had some digital information with him that was more sloppily protected than that which Greenwald has access to?

     

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    antymat, Aug 19th, 2013 @ 4:10am

    Find me the man...

    Wasn't Товарищ Берия right?
    All those public liberties? Poppycock! Who needs them at all?!

     

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    Zakida Paul (profile), Aug 19th, 2013 @ 4:18am

    Proof

    This law is not fit for purpose and needs to be repealed.

    If there is the potential for a law to be abused, abuse is inevitable.

    Pity we will not get change because the UK has become a nation of unthinking, unquestioning sheep who do not care about others as long as they are OK.

    We need a truly liberal government, not the neo-liberal mess we have now.

     

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    Zakida Paul (profile), Aug 19th, 2013 @ 4:24am

    Re: Sad part is some approve

    A nation of unthinking, unquestioning sheep obsessed with house prices, celebs and the latest iProduct.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 19th, 2013 @ 4:29am

    Intimidation

    This is only half a step short of using family as hostages to gain good behaviour, that is agreeing with the government in public, and returning home when demanded by your government.

     

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    martyburns (profile), Aug 19th, 2013 @ 4:39am

    Re: Re: Sad part is some approve

    and the weather. In fact that ranks first :-)

     

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  19.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 19th, 2013 @ 4:39am

    Re: They had no choice.

    Well, they have to locate the evil volcanic lair somehow now don't they, maybe they have found it at last.

    Rumor has it they have found details of a new terrorist plot code named The Alan Parsons Project.

    Several preparations for assault have been attempted in the past, preparations A through G resulted in failure. But once the evil lair is finally located, things will be different. Preparations for its' assault will be referred to as Preparation H. It's a really good plan, on the whole Preparation H feels good.

     

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  20.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 19th, 2013 @ 4:47am

    Re:

    It's more likely that he simply had a bottle of water, and you know how dangerous those can be. Thank god the UK stopped this mad man in his tracks before he could execute his evil plan of thirst quenching.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 19th, 2013 @ 4:48am

    Re:

    Much more inclined to think Sunday, Bloody Sunday.

     

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  22.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 19th, 2013 @ 4:49am

    Re: Proof

    It has been demonstrated that laws are not really necessary, more like guidelines anyways.

     

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  23.  
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    Vidiot (profile), Aug 19th, 2013 @ 4:58am

    Re:

    If it wasn't sloppily-protected information about acts of terror, then they still had no basis for detaining him.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 19th, 2013 @ 4:59am

    The UK Press

    And we all know just honest and upstanding they are !!!

    It's not like any of them would engage in underhanded activities, spying, hacking or any other questionable conduct !!!

    Why would ANYONE ever want to investigate them, or question their 'stories' and their embellishments.

    This person that was detained is also a little bit more than this reporters gay BF ! Why was that not mentioned here ?

    At first I wondered who this Greenwald person was, but then I remembered that he is somehow distantly connected to Snowden and NSA.

    Can we get even further away from the facts of Snowden's leaks, lets distract the public with this trivia. After all there appears to be NO STORY about the leaked info to talk about.. And you need page hits somehow.

     

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  25.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 19th, 2013 @ 5:04am

    Re:

    Psychological warfare: Unadulterated intimidation.

    If they can keep other journalists from doing what Greenwald did, they have achieved their goal. By making it public that they go after your friends and family if you publish secret US files, the chilling effect is much more massive than just harrassing Glenn Greenwald.

    It is incredibly mean and would be considered under mafia-related crimes, if anyone else did it.

     

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  26.  
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    Robert, Aug 19th, 2013 @ 5:10am

    Send It Air Freight

    A solid reminder for everyone. All your electronics, send them air freight parcel post before you get on the plane.
    That way they are far, far less likely to get stolen at inspection points, whether completely illegally, partially legally or legally.
    Want to make sure it arrives, upload the data to your ISP, want to protect your privacy encrypt it prior to uploading it to your ISP.

     

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  27.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 19th, 2013 @ 5:12am

    Re: Proof

    If they used the law on a Daily Fail reporter we might get it repealed.

     

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  28.  
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    TimK (profile), Aug 19th, 2013 @ 5:13am

    Re:

    According to the NY Times article, that is exactly what it was. He was apparently carrying encrypted thumb drives from Greenwald.

    "Mr. Miranda was in Berlin to deliver documents related to Mr. Greenwald’s investigation into government surveillance to Ms. Poitras, Mr. Greenwald said. Ms. Poitras, in turn, gave Mr. Miranda different documents to pass to Mr. Greenwald. Those documents, which were stored on encrypted thumb drives, were confiscated by airport security, Mr. Greenwald said. All of the documents came from the trove of materials provided to the two journalists by Mr. Snowden. The British authorities seized all of his electronic media — including video games, DVDs and data storage devices — and did not return them, Mr. Greenwald said."


    I'm not sure what the point of taking it was. Unless the NSA just wants to know what he has on them!

     

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  29.  
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    TimK (profile), Aug 19th, 2013 @ 5:17am

    Re: Re:

    I just hope that journalists here in the US, like those working for the Times, realize how serious this is, and what this means to them, their friends and their families. Freedom of the press is just one more freedom that has now been taken away.

     

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    out_of_the_blue, Aug 19th, 2013 @ 5:18am

    You omitted worst part of this "law": no right to remain silent.

    You either talk or can be jailed for not talking.

    And by the way: the UK is usually more subtle in its tyranny than the US but only because the serfs there are more accustomed to it. -- Oh, and they're disarmed, so the velvet glove is usually enough.

     

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  31.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 19th, 2013 @ 5:20am

    Re:

    It's easy for you to give up hope that the US can be great. You don't live here. I do, and I believe that we can't give up, no matter what. The question isn't what are others doing, it's what can you do? What are people willing to do? I dare say quite a few are willing to spill blood for their country, not their governmental regime.

     

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  32.  
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    Nigflot blarny quando floon, Aug 19th, 2013 @ 5:28am

    Journalism = terrorism. That's the only interpretation.

    And I don't mean the "journalism" you see on the telly which is simply regurgitation of what those in power want to populace to believe.

     

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  33.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 19th, 2013 @ 5:31am

    Re: Re: Sad part is some approve

    "A nation of unthinking, unquestioning sheep obsessed with house prices, celebs and the latest iProduct."

    Pessimism noted ... however not everyone is found in that pigeon hole.

    Polls show a majority in opposition to many political agendas. A big hurdle to change is gerrymandering, but even this maybe soon overcome with the large number of discontented voters.

     

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  34.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 19th, 2013 @ 5:34am

    Re: Proof

    Laws, paws. Without significant transparency in culture and procedure, laws are just a nuisance you can get around by being creative. The culture you create by creating too many laws are 1. People lose respect for them. 2. Laws become the biggest hurdle for innovation! 3. Corruption in the administration of the laws, particularly pertaining to conflicting laws without legal precedence.

    Liberal has to have a limit. Sure Cameron is adopting paleo-conservative social values to law and starting the only process towards less laws by leaving EU. But just removing government will make corporate interests much more important. Not in capturing laws as today, but in getting their own parallel societies rolling.

    Own security? extremely common already. Own kindergartens? do exist. Own Schools? Not sure if they exist yet, but I know it is getting close. Own health insurance? Duh. Own Universities? 1000 times yes, specializing people to own R&D department already happens! Own sewage treatment, potable water facilities, roads, electricity production, heat production etc.? Most of it is already happening to some extend.

    As soon as you get there, too big to fail is not about companies, but governments...

     

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  35.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 19th, 2013 @ 5:43am

    Hopefully, he used some kind of secure wiping system before going through British customs. That would prevent any forensics from being able to get anything. I would never take laptops through US or British Customs without first doing some kind of secure wipe on them, so, that if the items are seized, they will not get anything.

     

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  36.  
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    Zos (profile), Aug 19th, 2013 @ 5:45am

    Insurance

    Something that struck me yesterday...has anyone looked at the timing of that 400 gig insurance file that went up on wikileaks?

    maybe i'm just seeing connections where none exists, but wouldn't it be interesting if they nabbed him in the airport then that went up, then he was released?

     

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  37.  
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    The Real Michael, Aug 19th, 2013 @ 5:46am

    Re:

    Perhaps Greenwald should respond by revealing everything Snowden gave him.

     

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  38.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 19th, 2013 @ 5:47am

    Re: The UK Press

    Actually, that was ONE ELEMENT of the UK press, working under the guise of a US-based corporation.

    I also find it amusing that you think that journalistic intimidation is a boon. You should fly to Communist America (in the Animal Farm parody sense, not the actual social system.)

     

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  39.  
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    Jasmine Charter, Aug 19th, 2013 @ 5:49am

    And this surprises anyone how?!

    Why does this abuse continue to surprise or shock anyone?

    Lawmakers are lazy, power-hungry idiots who rush legislation without even MOMENTARILY considering how it might be abused. Their language is so broad you could detain a poodle for terrorism because it might pee on electronics and bring down plane.

    I consider most lawmakers and police as terrorists already and there is really nothing there to change my mind.

    Their "let us make you slaves to save you" philosophy doesn't fly with me.

     

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  40.  
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    Watchit (profile), Aug 19th, 2013 @ 5:49am

    Since when has the UK government been in the business of mugging people?

     

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  41.  
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    Watchit (profile), Aug 19th, 2013 @ 5:51am

    Re: Re:

    Nah, it was probably a cupcake

     

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  42.  
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    The Real Michael, Aug 19th, 2013 @ 5:52am

    Re: Re:

    There are back-up copies somewhere. From what I understand, if anything should happen to Snowden, all of the info would be released in bulk.

     

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  43.  
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    Watchit (profile), Aug 19th, 2013 @ 5:53am

    Re: Re: Re:

    If it was his thumbdrive they were after, they probably detained him for the whole 9 hours to try and get him to decrypt it.

     

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    scottbp (profile), Aug 19th, 2013 @ 6:00am

    Insurance claim

    So I find myself wondering, in a case like this when you have had your electronic kit taken and you go to the insurance agency they want to to file a police report for stolen equipment. What would happen if you went into your local police station and made your report? Would they take it seriously and start an investigation? Quietly fill out a form and file it? Or kick you out as a miscreant?

     

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  45.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 19th, 2013 @ 6:07am

    We're fairly close to sewing micro SD cards into our clothing to smuggle information across checkpoints.
    Digital Casablanca.

     

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  46.  
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    Nick, Aug 19th, 2013 @ 6:23am

    Obama would be proud

    I see the British government has taken a page right out of Obama's notebook. The citizens have no right anymore. Government run amok.

     

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  47.  
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    That Anonymous Coward (profile), Aug 19th, 2013 @ 6:24am

    Re:

    Austerity is a bitch

     

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  48.  
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    art guerrilla (profile), Aug 19th, 2013 @ 6:25am

    Re: Re:

    i was wondering if the wikileaks distribution of files was directly/indirectly in response to this latest outrage...

     

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  49.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 19th, 2013 @ 6:25am

    I am sure they were listening very closely to Glenn. It's a long ways beyond suspicious that not Glenn but David is the one bringing info. Someone knew well ahead of time and was waiting to spring this little trap to see what they could get.

    If there was ever a doubt of corruption it is staring you in the face. I can not help but wonder just how deeply the US is involved in wanting to see this happen in an effort to control the leaks and what is being released.

     

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  50.  
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    art guerrilla (profile), Aug 19th, 2013 @ 6:26am

    Re:

    indeed, it appears the only 'solution' (the final one?), is to give up all our freedoms, then The They (tm) won't have anything left to fear from us li'l peeps...

    dog damn i hates me some politicians...

    art guerrilla
    aka ann archy
    eof

     

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  51.  
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    ChurchHatesTucker (profile), Aug 19th, 2013 @ 6:30am

    Re: Re: Proof

    No, they'd write a glowing piece about how the authorities were leaving no stone unturned in the war on whatever this is.

     

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  52.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 19th, 2013 @ 6:40am

    Re: Re:

    Or it could have the exact opposite reaction that they want. Greenwald could just get so disgusted that he releases every thing he has without redacting names.

     

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  53.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 19th, 2013 @ 6:47am

    Three insightful comments from elsewhere

    Three comments from elsewhere that I think deserve wider notice:

    A):
    “Whether they detained a spouse or a journalist, they applied an anti-terrorism statute to cover someone who's only been accused of illegally publishing classified information. Just because the government doesn't like what you did doesn't mean they get to hit you with whatever law happens to be lying around at the moment. Why not just arrest him for murder, or tax fraud, or jaywalking? Sure, he didn't do any of those things either, but his husband pissed off the executive branch so apparently it's open season.” (metafilter, Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish)


    B):
    “More to the point, although David was released, his entire digital library was confiscated – including his laptop and phone. So any journalist passing through London’s Heathrow has now been warned: do not take any documents with you. Britain is now a police state when it comes to journalists, just like Russia is. In this respect, I can say this to David Cameron. Thank you for clearing the air on these matters of surveillance. You have now demonstrated beyond any reasonable doubt that these anti-terror provisions are capable of rank abuse. Unless some other facts emerge, there is really no difference in kind between you and Vladimir Putin. You have used police powers granted for anti-terrorism and deployed them to target and intimidate journalists deemed enemies of the state.” (Andrew Sullivan, http://dish.andrewsullivan.com/2013/08/18/cameron-proves-greenwald-right/ )


    C):
    “I have two guesses about what is going on. (1) The documents were not provided by Snowden, but are instead works-in-progress that Greenwald and Poitras are collaborating on. They are following a security protocol stipulating that files from air-gapped computers are only transmitted from Point A to Point B on physical media (e.g., encrypted thumb drives). (2) Sending Miranda was intended to establish some kind of precedent that would help Greenwald to travel freely. Greenwald correctly believed that it would be politically untenable for the UK to arrest and charge Miranda for traveling across the border with encrypted documents. Now, if Greenwald crosses the border with encrypted documents, Miranda has set a valuable precedent. I think the first possibility is more likely than the second. However, it is possible that both guesses are correct, and it is possible that both guesses are wrong. posted by compartment (Metafilter)

     

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  54.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 19th, 2013 @ 7:02am

    In a move that is clearly driven more to intimidate Glenn Greenwald than anything else, his partner, David Miranda, was detained for nine hours at Heathrow airport

    If this goes through the courts, maybe we can get a new set of Miranda rights out of this.

     

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  55.  
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    Richard (profile), Aug 19th, 2013 @ 7:19am

    Hypocrisy

    This is blatant hypocrisy given that the UK govcernment is currently complaining about Spain's use of similar tactics for political ends on the border with Gibraltar.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-23739046

     

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  56.  
    identicon
    Nonharmonic Pedaltone, Aug 19th, 2013 @ 7:26am

    Re: Re: Re: Sad part is some approve

    "and the weather. In fact that ranks first :-)"

    Err -- why shouldn't it? If your house is in danger of flooding or having a tree fall on it or getting blown away, don't you think you'd like to know?

     

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  57.  
    identicon
    Percius Grammaticus, Aug 19th, 2013 @ 7:34am

    Re: The UK Press

    I notice that you have made each sentence in your post its own paragraph. This practice is generally discouraged, as it tends to give the reader the impression of a disordered mind strewing unrelated thoughts haphazardly in the reader's path like detritus falling out the back of a garbage truck.

     

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  58. This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
     
    identicon
    horse with no name, Aug 19th, 2013 @ 7:36am

    Re: Three insightful comments from elsewhere

    A): He wasn't arrested. He was detained within the limits of the law.

    B): If you are known to be a smuggler to illegal items, or to be involved with people who do, then don't be shocked to get stopped at the border. "journalist" is not a special pass word that lets you ignore the law.

    C): No matter what the documents are, see B. It would be similar to a known drug trafficker showing up at the airport with a locked box that cannot be easily opened, and expecting to just be able to walk it onto the plane without question. This "journalist" made his own bed, he gets to sleep in it now.

    D): Another period of time with Techdirt censoring my posts by delaying them until they are not longer relevant. Mike, do you want me to take this more public?

     

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  59.  
    icon
    Wally (profile), Aug 19th, 2013 @ 7:40am

    Re:

    Under Toni Blare, Iraqi defectors under Sadam Hussein told terrible things about how the Iraqi government was run and how Iraqi's were treated by their leaders. He diplomatically asked the US Governtment to create a ruse or excuse to get defectors out of Iraq so that members of MI5 wouldn't blow their cover.

    Under Mr. Cameron...anything the color orange under his porn filter is blocked and it seems to be an attempt to pander to stereotypical subtypes of conservatives from the liberal politician point of view.

     

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  60.  
    icon
    Wally (profile), Aug 19th, 2013 @ 7:50am

    Re: Re:

    Adding to that, it seems that bevause of this pandering towards individual groups may be the worst possible leadership scenario one could make. This type of pandering shows a severe lack of empathy towards humanity.

     

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  61.  
    identicon
    The Real Michael, Aug 19th, 2013 @ 8:02am

    Re: Re: Re:

    Don't know but it's possible. Regardless, the government isn't nearly as interested in Assange right now as they are in whatever data is in Greenwald's possession.

    If a group of citizens just snatched these agents in broad daylight, seized all their personal belongings and detained them indefinitely for hours, I wonder how that would make them feel.

    What they did to Miranda constitutes blatant abuse of law and authority. For nine hours they treated him like a terrorist, when in fact they're the terrorists.

     

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  62.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Aug 19th, 2013 @ 8:08am

    Re: Re: Three insightful comments from elsewhere

    So much conviction!

    What's stopping you from taking this more public?

    Afraid of the ridicule that would follow you around?

    We're on pins and needles here dude. Your threats are entertaining!

     

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  63.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Aug 19th, 2013 @ 8:11am

    Re: Re: Three insightful comments from elsewhere

    L2Read, it was correctly stated as "detained" and then hypotethetically as "why didn't they arrest?"

     

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  64.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Aug 19th, 2013 @ 8:13am

    Re: Re: Three insightful comments from elsewhere

    What illegal items?

     

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  65.  
    icon
    Brent Ashley (profile), Aug 19th, 2013 @ 8:30am

    which law they applied is not the issue

    The fact that they used this particular terrorism law to "justify" Miranda's detention is a red herring.

    The fact is that they were going to stop him and take away his electronics in any case. Pulling some regulation or other out of a hat to apply as a reason for nosy parkers who ask is simply a necessary annoyance to the authorities.

    If this law had not given them the convenient allowance to detain him and take his stuff, they would have found another. I'm sure some copyright law would have been the next choice.

     

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  66.  
    icon
    Jeffrey Nonken (profile), Aug 19th, 2013 @ 8:33am

    Clearly his Miranda rights have been violated.

     

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  67.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Aug 19th, 2013 @ 8:36am

    Re: Re: Three insightful comments from elsewhere

    You're an idiot.

     

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  68.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Aug 19th, 2013 @ 8:36am

    Re: Re:

    Austerity is one of the obnoxious umbrella terms not unlike 'intellectual property' that lumps a handful of disparate concepts together under one roof leading to them increasingly being confused for one another. In this case what you mean is just plain old tax hikes and yes, they are a bitch.

     

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  69.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Aug 19th, 2013 @ 8:44am

    Re: Re: Three insightful comments from elsewhere

    A): This was not within the limits of the law. The law is explicit in its purpose and this doesn't fit which you would know if you RTFA.

    B): A 'known smuggler?' What has he been convicted of smuggling? What law was being ignored *by David* exactly? Be specific. Even if you assume Greenwald broke the law (he didn't) what's that got to do with David?

    C): David and Glenn are different people. David was detained. Gleen is the journalist and no not a "journalist" a journalist which you would know if you RTFA.

    D): Spam filtering is not 'censorship' and what are you on about with 'not longer relevant?' Even if you posted this minutes after the comment you RE to that doesn't fly, the timestamps are less than an hour apart.

     

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  70.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Aug 19th, 2013 @ 8:51am

    Re: Re: Re:

    This type of pandering shows a severe lack of empathy towards humanity

    A lack of empathy is necessary to enter the knife in the back world of politics. This goes double if you want to lead a party, considering the number of knives left in various backs while climbing the greasy pole to the top.

     

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  71.  
    identicon
    Some Guy, Aug 19th, 2013 @ 8:59am

    They probably asked him: "Are you now, or have you ever been a Communist?"
    It's a normal question when you enter the country. I mean, you could be working for the reds.

     

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  72.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Aug 19th, 2013 @ 9:44am

    Re: Re: Re: Three insightful comments from elsewhere

    Apparently, smuggling numbers is illegal. Someone should tell Sesame Street.

     

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  73.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Aug 19th, 2013 @ 9:46am

    Re: Obama would be proud

    Miranda is a Brazilian citizen who was just changing planes at Heathrow. Brazil has complained and MPs are asking questions, see BBC news article.

     

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  74.  
    identicon
    kitsune361, Aug 19th, 2013 @ 10:09am

    Nothing new to see here, move along.

    This has been happening for some time in and out of the US and some of it's allies. Here's some of the few examples I'm familiar with:

    Jacob Appelbaum was harassed every trip into and out of the US after he gave the keynote @ the hope conference in place of Julian Assange.

    David House, who organized "The Bradley Manning Support Network" likewise had all his electronics seized on a trip out of country. He had to sue to get his electronics back.

    Even before the NSA scandal Greenwald's partner on the Snowden reporting, Laura Poitras, has been harassed in this manner for YEARS.

     

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  75.  
    identicon
    Anonymoose, Aug 19th, 2013 @ 10:43am

    Pretty sure this was about the data...

    They still have no idea how much or what specific data Snowden has in reserve, but Glenn has some portion of it at least.

    Since his partner was in Germany to meet with Laura, probably about Snowden-related things, they probably thought there was a good chance of some of the archive being present in the electronics.

    They've been embarrassed too many times, making statements, later contradicted by conflicting data from the trove.

    They wanted eyes on. Only rationale that makes sense.

    On the intimidation front, they had to know it would have the opposite effect; not unpredictable.

     

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  76.  
    icon
    That Anonymous Coward (profile), Aug 19th, 2013 @ 11:13am

    Re: Re: Re:

    Or I was making a joke about them mugging travelers of their electronics, that then would be then pawned to keep the lights on.

     

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  77.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Aug 19th, 2013 @ 11:19am

    Re: Nothing new to see here, move along.

    Even before the NSA scandal Greenwald's partner on the Snowden reporting, Laura Poitras, has been harassed in this manner for YEARS.

    Makes me wonder what was on the devices, and how the actual files were transferred.

     

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  78.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Aug 19th, 2013 @ 11:28am

    Re: You omitted worst part of this "law": no right to remain silent.

    Citation needed. The right to remain silent has a long history in England.

     

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  79.  
    identicon
    Lurker Keith, Aug 19th, 2013 @ 11:34am

    epic backfire

    Just read that Greenwald's response to this is to amp up his releases, w/ more emphasis on what he has on the UK.

    http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/08/19/20090924-snowden-leak-journalist-britain-will-r egret-detaining-partner-at-airport?lite

    "I will be more aggressive in my reporting from now,” he told reporters in Portuguese at Rio de Janeiro’s airport
    [...]
    Greenwald told reporters he has many more documents to report on, including ones about the UK. He said he thinks British authorities would come to regret their actions.


    I don't think this could've backfired worse.

     

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  80.  
    identicon
    DCX2, Aug 19th, 2013 @ 11:38am

    They took his *game consoles*?

    Wow. Poor guy. I bet he loses all his game saves. Potentially thousands of hours of effort, lost.

     

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  81.  
    icon
    That One Guy (profile), Aug 19th, 2013 @ 11:54am

    Re: Re: You omitted worst part of this "law": no right to remain silent.

    Actually in this case I believe blue is right, or at the very least I have also heard that as part of the 'anti-terrorism' efforts laws have been introduced that means refusing to 'cooperate' with police is a chargeable offense.

     

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  82.  
    icon
    That One Guy (profile), Aug 19th, 2013 @ 11:58am

    Re: epic backfire

    Beautiful, tried to intimidate a sheep, only it turned out to be a wolf...

    They really screwed up this time, maybe after this UK authorities will be a little more wary of following USG 'suggestions'.

     

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  83.  
    icon
    Trails (profile), Aug 19th, 2013 @ 12:00pm

    Re:

    The point gov't is trying to make, as delivered by Al Pacino:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=rW7WlT6OJxE&t=20

     

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  84. This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
     
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Aug 19th, 2013 @ 12:01pm

    Re: Re: Re: Three insightful comments from elsewhere

    A): if you went past RTFA and actually went to look for yourself, the law of the UK allows for detention at customs for up to this period of time without any real need for justification beyond not being comfortable with the traveller or thinking there may be an issue.

    B): You don't have to be convicted of something to be a known smuggler - or to have a direct relationship with someone who has apparently transported state secrets before. This is Glenn's boyfriend, and would be no different from detaining the wife or girlfriend of a admitted narco trafficker to assure that she wasn't carrying anything illegal.

    C): See B above. Duh, of course they are two different people, but they are a couple and no, gay men don't get a free pass because their relationship is non-traditional. Again, see B above.

    D): it's not a spam filter, it's an idea filter. I don't spam. I never have posted a link on Techdirt (outside of those to answer inane "link needed" troll posts). It's the Techdirt staff deciding they didn't want to have opposing opinions on their site that were reasonable and detailed. Every post (including this one) will go into moderation before being posted. That is a simple way to censor my posts or to make my comments less relevant. They have been quicker today to approve posts, but in the past couple of months it has taken days for posts to appear, which means the story is already 3 or 4 pages back and no longer gets any responses.

    The more I point out that this is an issue, the faster the posts appear. You can puzzle that one out for me, the Techdirt staff has been very closed mouthed about their attempts to muzzle dissenting voices.

     

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  85.  
    icon
    Trails (profile), Aug 19th, 2013 @ 12:07pm

    Re: Re:

    Heads up, lots of salty talk in that link.

     

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  86.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Aug 19th, 2013 @ 12:45pm

    Re: Re: Re: Three insightful comments from elsewhere

    "A): This was not within the limits of the law. The law is explicit in its purpose and this doesn't fit which you would know if you RTFA."

    The Article is based on a tweet and still somehow misses a line. Section (1)(a) that Mike ignored includes references to sections 11, 12, 15 to 18, 54 and 56 to 63, of the act. Did anyone read them?
    They run to nearly 3000 words and cover an awful lot.

    Here.....
    11
    Membership.
    (1)
    A person commits an offence if he belongs or professes to belong to a proscribed organisation.
    (2)
    It is a defence for a person charged with an offence under subsection (1) to prove—
    (a)
    that the organisation was not proscribed on the last (or only) occasion on which he became a member or began to profess to be a member, and
    (b)
    that he has not taken part in the activities of the organisation at any time while it was proscribed.
    (3)
    A person guilty of an offence under this section shall be liable—
    (a)
    on conviction on indictment, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding ten years, to a fine or to both, or
    (b)
    on summary conviction, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding six months, to a fine not exceeding the statutory maximum or to both.
    (4)
    In subsection (2) “proscribed” means proscribed for the purposes of any of the following—
    (a)
    this Act;
    (b)
    the M1Northern Ireland (Emergency Provisions) Act 1996;
    (c)
    the M2Northern Ireland (Emergency Provisions) Act 1991;
    (d)
    the M3Prevention of Terrorism (Temporary Provisions) Act 1989;
    (e)
    the M4Prevention of Terrorism (Temporary Provisions) Act 1984;
    (f)
    the M5Northern Ireland (Emergency Provisions) Act 1978;
    (g)
    the M6Prevention of Terrorism (Temporary Provisions) Act 1976;
    (h)
    the M7Prevention of Terrorism (Temporary Provisions) Act 1974;
    (i)
    the M8Northern Ireland (Emergency Provisions) Act 1973.

    12
    Support.
    (1)
    A person commits an offence if—
    (a)
    he invites support for a proscribed organisation, and
    (b)
    the support is not, or is not restricted to, the provision of money or other property (within the meaning of section 15).
    (2)
    A person commits an offence if he arranges, manages or assists in arranging or managing a meeting which he knows is—
    (a)
    to support a proscribed organisation,
    (b)
    to further the activities of a proscribed organisation, or
    (c)
    to be addressed by a person who belongs or professes to belong to a proscribed organisation.
    (3)
    A person commits an offence if he addresses a meeting and the purpose of his address is to encourage support for a proscribed organisation or to further its activities.
    (4)
    Where a person is charged with an offence under subsection (2)(c) in respect of a private meeting it is a defence for him to prove that he had no reasonable cause to believe that the address mentioned in subsection (2)(c) would support a proscribed organisation or further its activities.
    (5)
    In subsections (2) to (4)—
    (a)
    “meeting” means a meeting of three or more persons, whether or not the public are admitted, and
    (b)
    a meeting is private if the public are not admitted.
    (6)
    A person guilty of an offence under this section shall be liable—
    (a)
    on conviction on indictment, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding ten years, to a fine or to both, or
    (b)
    on summary conviction, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding six months, to a fine not exceeding the statutory maximum or to both.

    15
    Fund-raising.
    (1)
    A person commits an offence if he—
    (a)
    invites another to provide money or other property, and
    (b)
    intends that it should be used, or has reasonable cause to suspect that it may be used, for the purposes of terrorism.
    (2)
    A person commits an offence if he—
    (a)
    receives money or other property, and
    (b)
    intends that it should be used, or has reasonable cause to suspect that it may be used, for the purposes of terrorism.
    (3)
    A person commits an offence if he—
    (a)
    provides money or other property, and
    (b)
    knows or has reasonable cause to suspect that it will or may be used for the purposes of terrorism.
    (4)
    In this section a reference to the provision of money or other property is a reference to its being given, lent or otherwise made available, whether or not for consideration.

    16
    Use and possession.
    (1)
    A person commits an offence if he uses money or other property for the purposes of terrorism.
    (2)
    A person commits an offence if he—
    (a)
    possesses money or other property, and
    (b)
    intends that it should be used, or has reasonable cause to suspect that it may be used, for the purposes of terrorism.

    17
    Funding arrangements.
    A person commits an offence if—
    (a)
    he enters into or becomes concerned in an arrangement as a result of which money or other property is made available or is to be made available to another, and
    (b)
    he knows or has reasonable cause to suspect that it will or may be used for the purposes of terrorism.

    18
    Money laundering.
    (1)
    A person commits an offence if he enters into or becomes concerned in an arrangement which facilitates the retention or control by or on behalf of another person of terrorist property—
    (a)
    by concealment,
    (b)
    by removal from the jurisdiction,
    (c)
    by transfer to nominees, or
    (d)
    in any other way.
    (2)
    It is a defence for a person charged with an offence under subsection (1) to prove that he did not know and had no reasonable cause to suspect that the arrangement related to terrorist property



    54
    Weapons training.
    (1)
    A person commits an offence if he provides instruction or training in the making or use of—
    (a)
    firearms,
    [F1(aa)
    radioactive material or weapons designed or adapted for the discharge of any radioactive material,]
    (b)
    explosives, or
    (c)
    chemical, biological or nuclear weapons.
    (2)
    A person commits an offence if he receives instruction or training in the making or use of—
    (a)
    firearms,
    [F1(aa)
    radioactive material or weapons designed or adapted for the discharge of any radioactive material,]
    (b)
    explosives, or
    (c)
    chemical, biological or nuclear weapons.
    (3)
    A person commits an offence if he invites another to receive instruction or training and the receipt—
    (a)
    would constitute an offence under subsection (2), or
    (b)
    would constitute an offence under subsection (2) but for the fact that it is to take place outside the United Kingdom.
    (4)
    For the purpose of subsections (1) and (3)—
    (a)
    a reference to the provision of instruction includes a reference to making it available either generally or to one or more specific persons, and
    (b)
    an invitation to receive instruction or training may be either general or addressed to one or more specific persons.
    (5)
    It is a defence for a person charged with an offence under this section in relation to instruction or training to prove that his action or involvement was wholly for a purpose other than assisting, preparing for or participating in terrorism.
    (6)
    A person guilty of an offence under this section shall be liable—
    (a)
    on conviction on indictment, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding ten years, to a fine or to both, or
    (b)
    on summary conviction, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding six months, to a fine not exceeding the statutory maximum or to both.

    56
    Directing terrorist organisation.
    (1)
    A person commits an offence if he directs, at any level, the activities of an organisation which is concerned in the commission of acts of terrorism.
    (2)
    A person guilty of an offence under this section is liable on conviction on indictment to imprisonment for life.

    57
    Possession for terrorist purposes.
    (1)
    A person commits an offence if he possesses an article in circumstances which give rise to a reasonable suspicion that his possession is for a purpose connected with the commission, preparation or instigation of an act of terrorism.
    (2)
    It is a defence for a person charged with an offence under this section to prove that his possession of the article was not for a purpose connected with the commission, preparation or instigation of an act of terrorism.
    (3)
    In proceedings for an offence under this section, if it is proved that an article—
    (a)
    was on any premises at the same time as the accused, or
    (b)
    was on premises of which the accused was the occupier or which he habitually used otherwise than as a member of the public,
    the court may assume that the accused possessed the article, unless he proves that he did not know of its presence on the premises or that he had no control over it.
    (4)
    A person guilty of an offence under this section shall be liable—
    (a)
    on conviction on indictment, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding [F115 years]F1 , to a fine or to both, or
    (b)
    on summary conviction, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding six months, to a fine not exceeding the statutory maximum or to both.

    58
    Collection of information.
    (1)
    A person commits an offence if—
    (a)
    he collects or makes a record of information of a kind likely to be useful to a person committing or preparing an act of terrorism, or
    (b)
    he possesses a document or record containing information of that kind.
    (2)
    In this section “record” includes a photographic or electronic record.
    (3)
    It is a defence for a person charged with an offence under this section to prove that he had a reasonable excuse for his action or possession.
    (4)
    A person guilty of an offence under this section shall be liable—
    (a)
    on conviction on indictment, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 10 years, to a fine or to both, or
    (b)
    on summary conviction, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding six months, to a fine not exceeding the statutory maximum or to both.

    [F158A
    Eliciting, publishing or communicating information about members of armed forces etc
    (1)
    A person commits an offence who—
    (a)
    elicits or attempts to elicit information about an individual who is or has been—
    (i)
    a member of Her Majesty's forces,
    (ii)
    a member of any of the intelligence services, or
    (iii)
    a constable,
    which is of a kind likely to be useful to a person committing or preparing an act of terrorism, or
    (b)
    publishes or communicates any such information.
    (2)
    It is a defence for a person charged with an offence under this section to prove that they had a reasonable excuse for their action.
    (3)
    A person guilty of an offence under this section is liable—
    (a)
    on conviction on indictment, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 10 years or to a fine, or to both;
    (b)
    on summary conviction—
    (i)
    in England and Wales or Scotland, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 12 months or to a fine not exceeding the statutory maximum, or to both;
    (ii)
    in Northern Ireland, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 6 months or to a fine not exceeding the statutory maximum, or to both.
    (4)
    In this section “the intelligence services” means the Security Service, the Secret Intelligence Service and GCHQ (within the meaning of section 3 of the Intelligence Services Act 1994 (c. 13)).
    (5)
    Schedule 8A to this Act contains supplementary provisions relating to the offence under this section.]

    59
    England and Wales.
    (1)
    A person commits an offence if—
    (a)
    he incites another person to commit an act of terrorism wholly or partly outside the United Kingdom, and
    (b)
    the act would, if committed in England and Wales, constitute one of the offences listed in subsection (2).
    (2)
    Those offences are—
    (a)
    murder,
    (b)
    an offence under section 18 of the Offences against the M1Person Act 1861 (wounding with intent),
    (c)
    an offence under section 23 or 24 of that Act (poison),
    (d)
    an offence under section 28 or 29 of that Act (explosions), and
    (e)
    an offence under section 1(2) of the M2Criminal Damage Act 1971 (endangering life by damaging property).
    (3)
    A person guilty of an offence under this section shall be liable to any penalty to which he would be liable on conviction of the offence listed in subsection (2) which corresponds to the act which he incites.
    (4)
    For the purposes of subsection (1) it is immaterial whether or not the person incited is in the United Kingdom at the time of the incitement.
    (5)
    Nothing in this section imposes criminal liability on any person acting on behalf of, or holding office under, the Crown.

    60
    Northern Ireland.
    (1)
    A person commits an offence if—
    (a)
    he incites another person to commit an act of terrorism wholly or partly outside the United Kingdom, and
    (b)
    the act would, if committed in Northern Ireland, constitute one of the offences listed in subsection (2).
    (2)
    Those offences are—
    (a)
    murder,
    (b)
    an offence under section 18 of the Offences against the M1Person Act 1861 (wounding with intent),
    (c)
    an offence under section 23 or 24 of that Act (poison),
    (d)
    an offence under section 28 or 29 of that Act (explosions), and
    (e)
    an offence under Article 3(2) of the M2Criminal Damage (Northern Ireland) Order 1977 (endangering life by damaging property).
    (3)
    A person guilty of an offence under this section shall be liable to any penalty to which he would be liable on conviction of the offence listed in subsection (2) which corresponds to the act which he incites.
    (4)
    For the purposes of subsection (1) it is immaterial whether or not the person incited is in the United Kingdom at the time of the incitement.
    (5)
    Nothing in this section imposes criminal liability on any person acting on behalf of, or holding office under, the Crown

    61
    Scotland.
    (1)
    A person commits an offence if—
    (a)
    he incites another person to commit an act of terrorism wholly or partly outside the United Kingdom, and
    (b)
    the act would, if committed in Scotland, constitute one of the offences listed in subsection (2).
    (2)
    Those offences are—
    (a)
    murder,
    (b)
    assault to severe injury, and
    (c)
    reckless conduct which causes actual injury.
    (3)
    A person guilty of an offence under this section shall be liable to any penalty to which he would be liable on conviction of the offence listed in subsection (2) which corresponds to the act which he incites.
    (4)
    For the purposes of subsection (1) it is immaterial whether or not the person incited is in the United Kingdom at the time of the incitement.
    (5)
    Nothing in this section imposes criminal liability on any person acting on behalf of, or holding office under, the Crown.

    62
    Terrorist bombing: jurisdiction.
    (1)
    If—
    (a)
    a person does anything outside the United Kingdom as an act of terrorism or for the purposes of terrorism, and
    (b)
    his action would have constituted the commission of one of the offences listed in subsection (2) if it had been done in the United Kingdom,
    he shall be guilty of the offence.
    (2)
    The offences referred to in subsection (1)(b) are—
    (a)
    an offence under section 2, 3 or 5 of the M1Explosive Substances Act 1883 (causing explosions, &c.),
    (b)
    an offence under section 1 of the M2Biological Weapons Act 1974 (biological weapons), and
    (c)
    an offence under section 2 of the M3Chemical Weapons Act 1996 (chemical weapons).

    63
    Terrorist finance: jurisdiction.
    (1)
    If—
    (a)
    a person does anything outside the United Kingdom, and
    (b)
    his action would have constituted the commission of an offence under any of sections 15 to 18 if it had been done in the United Kingdom,
    he shall be guilty of the offence.
    (2)
    For the purposes of subsection (1)(b), section 18(1)(b) shall be read as if for “the jurisdiction” there were substituted “ a jurisdiction ”.

    A non-journalist carrying (possibly) encrypted drives over the border isn't really outside the law is it?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  87.  
    icon
    John Fenderson (profile), Aug 19th, 2013 @ 12:48pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Three insightful comments from elsewhere

    I don't spam. I never have posted a link on Techdirt


    That's a non-sequitor. Spam does not have to include links to be spam, and that lack of links is not proof that the comment is actually ham.

    This is not about you personally, but I have noticed that the commenters who proclaim that they are being censored to suppress their points are the ones that routinely engage in abusive, off-topic, and spam. I have yet to see any evidence that any comments are being "censored" merely because they dissent from something.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  88.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Aug 19th, 2013 @ 2:42pm

    Journalists who report on government abuse are considered terrorists. This includes whistleblowers and anyone who believes in freedom and the Constitution.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  89.  
    identicon
    Watchit, Aug 19th, 2013 @ 2:57pm

    Re: Re: Re:

    *implied face palm*

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  90.  
    icon
    Not an Electronic Rodent (profile), Aug 19th, 2013 @ 3:46pm

    Re:

    So they used a 'terrorism' law to detain someone, deny them rights to legal assistance, the right to remain silent,
    Sad but true fact; In the UK one no longer has the right to remain silent. Some time ago the standard caution was amended to include the language "you do not have to say anything but it may harm your defence if you do not mention when questioned something you later rely on in court" or something like that, meaning it is acceptable to legally interpret not speaking as an admission of guilt. I think we're trying to beat the US to the "Who can have less freedom than China without anyone revolting" trophy...

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  91.  
    icon
    Not an Electronic Rodent (profile), Aug 19th, 2013 @ 3:50pm

    Re: Re: Re: Proof

    No, they'd write a glowing piece about how the authorities were leaving no stone unturned in the war on whatever this is.
    That would be the war on yobs and gypsies that are destroying middle England and the memory of Diana and causing cancer... or something like that

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  92.  
    identicon
    horse with no name, Aug 19th, 2013 @ 7:28pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Three insightful comments from elsewhere

    Come on, I didn't even have to read much to get to this:

    "58
    Collection of information.
    (1)
    A person commits an offence if—
    (a)
    he collects or makes a record of information of a kind likely to be useful to a person committing or preparing an act of terrorism, or
    (b)
    he possesses a document or record containing information of that kind."


    Wall of text is nice - but next time you should read it.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  93.  
    identicon
    antymat, Aug 19th, 2013 @ 10:24pm

    00447

    ...classified...

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  94.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Aug 19th, 2013 @ 11:25pm

    Right.....

    I feel safer already.

    /S

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  95.  
    icon
    Jan Bilek (profile), Aug 20th, 2013 @ 2:20am

    Re: They had no choice.

    I believe that we should be able to laugh at anything and I do not mean to criticise you for making fun of this situation. I just want to say that I personally find it incredibly difficult to laugh at this. I grew up in an authoritarian regime and it is my impression that people from countries with no experience with authoritarian government mostly do not realize how really really bad and sad news this is.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  96.  
    icon
    Ben (profile), Aug 20th, 2013 @ 7:53am

    Not in my name

    I emailed my MP about this today. His reply came within 15 minutes. Canned reply obviously being sent to anyone who expresses concern:

    Thank you for your email. I do wish to ensure that the UK upholds democratic values and champions freedom.

    Before reaching a conclusion on the detention of Mr Miranda at Heathrow I wish to hear the police explanation for their actions. As I understand it from press accounts, this was not a matter authorised by Ministers, but an operational matter for the police themselves. I assume they believe they had the relevant powers and had reason to take this action.

    The Home Office have said: “If the police believe that an individual is in possession of highly sensitive stolen information that would help terrorism, then they should act and the law provides them with a framework to do that. Those who oppose this sort of action need to think about what they are condoning.”

    As an MP I need more information before I can come to a conclusion on the use of existing powers in this way. I gather from what has been said so far that Mr Miranda was stopped to be asked about material he was carrying with him. Parliament should be reviewing the anti terrorism legislation soon, and this case may well be a part of that consideration, as we may anyway wish to modify the law in the direction of giving more safeguards to individuals when asked to help the police with their enquiries.


    Best Wishes,

    The Rt Hon John Redwood MP
    Member of Parliament for Wokingham

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  97.  
    identicon
    DP, Aug 20th, 2013 @ 1:20pm

    Re: Re: Three insightful comments from elsewhere

    "not longer relevant" ??? Doesn't seem to roll off the tongue too well does it?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  98.  
    identicon
    Peter, Sep 25th, 2013 @ 4:45am

    Re: Re: You omitted worst part of this

    Oh yes you have the right..........well apart from giving your password up.........and the fact that keeping silent can and has been taken as an admission of guilt.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]


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