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New Zealand Censors Horror Film, Making It Extra Popular With Downloaders

from the well,-duh dept

This should go without saying at this point, but as government continually try to censor stuff, the internet just kind of mocks them. New Zealand censors have apparently decided that the horror flick Maniac -- a Cannes Film Festival selection that is starring Elijah Wood -- is just too damn scary for New Zealand sensibilities, and banned it. However, as TorrentFreak notes, banning the film seems to have only resulted in it getting downloaded a ridiculous amount in New Zealand. Of course, if New Zealand censors hadn't been so squeamish and actually allowed the movie to play in the country, the filmmakers would actually be making money. Instead, they get none of it. Of course, you also have to wonder how much extra publicity New Zealand censors gave to this movie by declaring that it was too scary for Kiwis to watch.


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  1.  
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    Zakida Paul (profile), Aug 2nd, 2013 @ 1:16pm

     

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  2.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 2nd, 2013 @ 1:22pm

    The studio should sue the NZ government for lost income under investor/state resolution. The piracy is clear indication of damage done to them by censorship.

     

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  3.  
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    Hephaestus (profile), Aug 2nd, 2013 @ 1:24pm

    Re:

    Not the Streisand effect, the Index Librorum Prohibitorum effect. When the catholics banned books, they went on to be some of the most well read books.

     

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  4.  
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    Zakida Paul (profile), Aug 2nd, 2013 @ 1:26pm

    Re: Re:

    Either way, shows that censorship only serves to draw people's attention to the thing being censored

     

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  5.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 2nd, 2013 @ 1:35pm

    viral marketing

    great publicity campaign guys, well done!

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 2nd, 2013 @ 1:36pm

    This, of course, raises the question: if censorship only draws attention to that which is censored, what is the function of the "censor this post" button on Techdirt? (Depending on your browser, it may be labeled "report" instead).

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 2nd, 2013 @ 1:38pm

    Re:

    That would be a heck of an entertaining outcome.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 2nd, 2013 @ 1:41pm

    In other news, libraries with 'read a banned book month' now start a 'watch a banned movie' month.

     

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  9.  
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    S. T. Stone, Aug 2nd, 2013 @ 1:42pm

    Re:

    It does not count as censorship if people can still read your comments (they can) and you still have the right to express yourself elsewhere (you do).

    Techdirt has no legal or moral obligation to allow you to use the comments service as a platform for your self-expression.

     

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  10.  
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    RD, Aug 2nd, 2013 @ 1:58pm

    Re:

    "This, of course, raises the question: if censorship only draws attention to that which is censored, what is the function of the "censor this post" button on Techdirt? (Depending on your browser, it may be labeled "report" instead)."

    Yeah fuck you too, AJ. It is a "report" button in ALL browsers you lying fuck.

    It is also not censorship if:

    a) it is not being done by a SINGULAR, CENTRAL AUTHORITY

    and

    b) it doesnt have the full weight of the law behind it

    Me telling you to shut your fucking piehole, or even turning away from listening to you and giving warning others that, in my opinion, you dont have anything useful to say, is NOT censorship in any way that the word is defined.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 2nd, 2013 @ 2:05pm

    Re: Re:

    You're choosing an awfully narrow definition of censorship to justify your position. That tactic is right out of the NSA play book, right? Well I guess it is only bad if they do it because they are big meanies.

    Nobody ever said Techdirt is obligated to provide a forum for anybody. It is ironic and hypocritical for the guy who (can't stop reminding us that he) coined a term dedicated to pointing out that censorship attempts usually result in increased popularity of the thing being censored having a "censor this post" button on each post on his forums.

     

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  12.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 2nd, 2013 @ 2:07pm

    Re: Re: Re:

    ...so you're saying the entire TD community is all just Mike posting from the NSA's offices?

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 2nd, 2013 @ 2:13pm

    Re: Re:

    Clicking the "censor this post" button does not have the effect of adding your well-reasoned argument to the debate, though. If you wanted to add your own speech you can add a post of your own. The function of that button is to try to suppress someone else's speech by hiding it. And that is exactly what it is used for.

     

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  14.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 2nd, 2013 @ 2:13pm

    Re:

    You can go into any public space, and everybody in that space can decide to ignore and refuse to listen to you, and all it means is you company is not wanted.

     

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    out_of_the_blue, Aug 2nd, 2013 @ 2:18pm

    Re: Re: Re: @ "censorship only serves to draw people's attention"

    You're assuming that's not the intent, but never even suspect that perhaps you're being manipulated into either distraction here or into viewing propaganda there. Gov'ts know full well what you do: that "forbidding" creates demand.

    You've found the site of Internet Quipper Mike "Streisand Effect" Masnick! -- As you'll frequently be reminded!

     

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  16.  
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    S. T. Stone, Aug 2nd, 2013 @ 2:20pm

    Re: Re: Re:

    I said it before, and I’ll say it again with bold text: Techdirt has no legal or moral obligation to allow you to use the comments service as a platform for your self-expression.

    You wanna whine about how Mean Ol’ Mike is censoring you? You wanna bitch about how the Techdirt Commenters are shutting you down? You wanna complain about how nobody gets to read your ‘insights’ into the article at large?

    THEN YOU DON’T KNOW WHAT CENSORSHIP IS.

    Censorship is having the government tell you that you can’t speak your mind. Censorship is having a corporation yank down your words and your self-expression with the government-granted monopoly called copyright. Censorship is wanting to say something but having no platform to say it.

    You want censorship? Go to Iran and try to talk out against the government, or go to Russia and try to protest its anti-gay law (I bet Ed Snowden’s happy he’s not gay right about now), or go to some other ultra-conservative country and speak out for liberty and freedom of religion or women’s rights. See how long you last down there before your speech gets silenced by the government and you get tossed in jail or out of the country.

    Techdirt ain’t no government body, my friend. Techdirt ain’t run by Congress or SCOTUS or the President. Techdirt is a privately-owned, privately-run blog that has no obligation whatsoever to allow you (or even me) to come in here and shit up the comments section. You wanna bitch about nobody reading your ‘insights’ or your ‘dissent’ from Techdirt’s opinions or the same kind of ad hominem attacks that you, Out of the Blue, and the other regular Techdirt trolls launch every day? Go follow some fuckin’ buzzards, because they’re the only ones that might give a shit.

    You don’t have any rights here. You don’t have any special protections here. You have the privilege of commenting here, and if Techdirt admins wanted to, they could revoke that privilege in a heartbeat. Instead of complaining about ‘censorship’ where it doesn’t exist, how about you start looking at places where it does exist (such as New Zealand) and work towards changing that situation?

    Until then, go cry to your momma, because she’s the only one that might give a shit.

    Hallelujah, holy shit, where’s my goddamn tequila.

     

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  17.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 2nd, 2013 @ 2:20pm

    Reminds me of an old maxim:
    Q: How do you get a teenager to read a book?
    A: Ban it.

     

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    S. T. Stone, Aug 2nd, 2013 @ 2:22pm

    Re: Re: Re:

    Clicking the "censor this post" button does not have the effect of adding your well-reasoned argument to the debate, though.

    Neither does complaining about ‘censorship’ where none exists or making comments that have nothing at all to do with the topic at hand, but that doesn’t stop you from commenting.

     

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    out_of_the_blue, Aug 2nd, 2013 @ 2:25pm

    Re: Re: @ "RD": "shut your fucking piehole"

    Me telling you to shut your fucking piehole, or even turning away from listening to you and giving warning others that, in my opinion, you dont have anything useful to say, is NOT censorship in any way that the word is defined.


    It's clear that you WANT to suppress certain opinions, just haven't got much power at it here. You arrogantly set yourself up as THE authority to decide what others will see: that IS censorship, sonny, still counts even it not absolute.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 2nd, 2013 @ 2:29pm

    Re: Re:

    It is questionable, however, whether you could drop a soundproof box over me from a helicopter. Even if the (tyrannical) majority thought it was a good idea.

     

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    S. T. Stone, Aug 2nd, 2013 @ 2:30pm

    Re: Re: Re: @ "RD": "shut your fucking piehole"

    You arrogantly set yourself up as THE authority to decide what others will see: that IS censorship, sonny, still counts even it not absolute.

    Except his one vote doesn’t count towards much, and it’s not the final arbiter of which posts end up behind the ‘flagged post’ line. He’s no more a censor than you are — though I bet you would love to set yourself up as the authority in what opinions about copyright, intellectual property, and other such subjects end up in the public sphere (and all those opinions would probably fall under the ‘hey copyright is awesome we should make it eternal’ category).

     

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  22.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 2nd, 2013 @ 2:44pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: @ "RD": "shut your fucking piehole"

    I don't know about anybody else, but I have never once used the "censor this post" button on this site to suppress anybody's opinion, or for any other purpose. If you have, that certainly does make you more of a censor than me - regardless if your authority to censor is unilateral or multilateral.

    The tyranny of the majority does not make a wrong action right, nor does it absolve each member from his or her actions. 10 men voting to punish an innocent man does not make it more right to do so than if one does. In a way, it's a little worse...

     

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    out_of_the_blue, Aug 2nd, 2013 @ 2:47pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re:

    @ "Techdirt has no legal or moral obligation to allow you to use the comments service as a platform for your self-expression."


    Pffft! This assertion again. At best, USERS have NO obligation to Techdirt! Just because some bozo writes on a web page doesn't obligate anyone.

    Techdirt, a business, for reasons of gaining money by selling your information makes a machine publicly available for anyone to use without prior approval. Users do not give up any rights to access a mere machine; it's Techdirt that gives up exclusivity by deliberately making the machine publicly avaiable. Access is regulated by public accommodation laws. Content is regulated only by common law terms. While users remain within common law terms on speech, arbitrary blocking of access to the machine is dicey at best, but sites can get away with it because too expensive to contest in court.

    In other words, you say that Techdirt is an insular little bunch of kids who despite claims of wanting to "discuss" can't stand ANY dissent and want to purge the site so they can enjoy their petty thefts without nags of conscience.

    And by the way, it's YOU who are detracting FAR more from the site than this or any other dissenter. I'd think you'd welcome opportunity to present your views rationally in refutation, but instead, you're defending your minor power to censor views that you don't want others to see. Some free speech forum.

    Techdirt fanboys are totally committed to free speech -- which to them means links to FREE infringing content!

     

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    out_of_the_blue, Aug 2nd, 2013 @ 2:53pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: @ "RD": "shut your fucking piehole"

    @ "S. T. Stone": "I bet you would love to set yourself up as the authority"

    A lame lie without least support. While YOU definitely do all you can to censor dissent here, including that post trying to shut me up. And without a bit of self-awareness.

    But I DEFINITELY want YOU to continue poisoning the site, so keep going as you are!

    by the way, I refuted you above on web sites and censorship.

     

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  25.  
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    S. T. Stone, Aug 2nd, 2013 @ 2:53pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    At best, USERS have NO obligation to Techdirt! Just because some bozo writes on a web page doesn't obligate anyone.

    So when do you plan to stop commenting?

     

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  26.  
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    Joe, Aug 2nd, 2013 @ 3:06pm

    New Zealand banned Frodo ??...... Tis a sad day indeed......

     

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  27.  
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    S. T. Stone, Aug 2nd, 2013 @ 3:12pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    And because I wanted to leave that first reply as is, here’s another one for you.

    Techdirt, a business, for reasons of gaining money by selling your information makes a machine publicly available for anyone to use without prior approval. Users do not give up any rights to access a mere machine; it's Techdirt that gives up exclusivity by deliberately making the machine publicly avaiable.

    And yet, Techdirt has no legal obligation to allow you to use that ‘machine’ to do or say whatever you wish. You cannot legally force Techdirt to allow you to comment on articles any more than you could legally force Techdirt to stop writing about copyright. You have no legal or moral authority over the content of Techdirt’s articles or which comments get hidden behind the ‘reported comment’ line.

    Access is regulated by public accommodation laws. Content is regulated only by common law terms. While users remain within common law terms on speech, arbitrary blocking of access to the machine is dicey at best, but sites can get away with it because too expensive to contest in court.

    Techdirt does not exist as a building that must accomodate people in terms of accessibility and non-discrimination laws. It can discriminate against you, me, or anyone else all it wants and you, me, or anyone else can’t legally do anything about it because a website is not a physical building.

    And if Techdirt exists as a business (which you claim it does), then Techdirt has the right to refuse to let you use its services (i.e. the comments section) if it feels you will disrupt normal usage of the service (and you and your fellow trolls do that whenever you comment) — just as real-world businesses have the right to refuse service to you if you disrupt the normal usage of their services.

    you say that Techdirt is an insular little bunch of kids who despite claims of wanting to "discuss" can't stand ANY dissent and want to purge the site so they can enjoy their petty thefts without nags of conscience

    No, I say that you’re a troll and you offer nothing of worth to any discussion. If you want to dissent from anything Techdirt publishes, you can do so without resorting to ‘GOOGLE IS ALWAYS EVIL IN EVERY WAY’ and the ad hominem attacks launched against Mr. Masnick, Techdirt’s other writers, and the Techdirt commenter community at large (including me).

    I don’t always agree with everything Techdirt says, and sometimes I don’t have the ability to express my opinions in words. (Mainly because, believe it or not, I have issues with trying to express opinions in the first place.) But that doesn’t mean I’ll come into the comments of an article where I disagree with something and say something childish and immature, then expect people to take my comments seriously. Whining about ‘MIKE CENSORED ME’ doesn’t make it true, whining about Google doesn’t it make it at fault for all the evils on the Internet, and doing both doesn’t make you any less of a troll.

    If you want people to take you seriously and consider any legitimate points you may have and open up a viable discussion on a subject, stop acting like a childish asshole.

    it's YOU who are detracting FAR more from the site than this or any other dissenter. I'd think you'd welcome opportunity to present your views rationally in refutation, but instead, you're defending your minor power to censor views that you don't want others to see. Some free speech forum.

    I don’t think of reporting worthless comments as censorship, and I wouldn’t think of anyone reporting my comments as censorship because I still have other places where I can express my opinions — and so do you.

    Have you ever heard of Tumblr, Twitter, Facebook, Google Plus, YouTube, Instagram, Vine, Tout, Blogger, 4chan, or any other service that allows user-created content? You can use all of those to express any opinion that Techdirt ‘censors’, which means you haven’t actually suffered from any form of censorship.

    When you’ve had the government or the legal system clamp down on your right to self-expression, then you can say you’ve suffered from actual censorship — but until then, don’t cry about something that hasn’t happened to you, because nobody will take that shit seriously.

    Now do everyone here a favor and FUCK MILES OF OFF.

     

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    S. T. Stone, Aug 2nd, 2013 @ 3:14pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: @ "RD": "shut your fucking piehole"

    A lame lie without least support. While YOU definitely do all you can to censor dissent here, including that post trying to shut me up. And without a bit of self-awareness.

    I don’t censor dissent. You don’t (and you won’t) see me asking Techdirt to remove your comments, and I can still read any of your hidden comments just fine after a single mouse-click.

    But you? You want to whine about censorship and act like a little bitch because your ad hominems and your crying about Google get hidden because nobody sees any worth in your comments. That’s the real difference between you and I: I don’t give a shit if anyone reports my comments here.

     

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  29.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 2nd, 2013 @ 3:55pm

    if a government censors your work, do you get a copyright on the censored or uncensored version?

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 2nd, 2013 @ 4:01pm

    Re:

    So for one month, you can pull those Traci Lords movies you downloaded out of that special hiding place...

     

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  31.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 2nd, 2013 @ 5:04pm

    Since I came in late, I want to thank the community for report voting the troll. It's nice not to have to look at his drivel.

     

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  32.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 2nd, 2013 @ 5:44pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    You're a joke. You've admitted on multiple occasions that all you want is to post insults because you disagree with the community, regardless of relevance. It's a "vice" of yours, you say. No website is obligated to let useless insults persist.

     

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  33.  
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    DS, Aug 2nd, 2013 @ 10:10pm

    Re:

    My web browser must be broken. I don't see a "Censor This Post" button.

     

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  34.  
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    DS, Aug 2nd, 2013 @ 10:12pm

    I've never read so many complaints of being censored before. It's like someone(s) don't understand the meaning of the word.

     

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  35.  
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    Atkray (profile), Aug 2nd, 2013 @ 10:33pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Blue, you of all people should understand that it is not censorship.

    On the once in a blue moon (¿is that where your name comes from?) occasion when you post something that is not full of your usual insults and pointless ramblings your posts remain visible and the community engages in discussion with you in a thoughtful and constructive manner.

    Sadly the overwhelming majority of what you write before hitting the "submit" button is full of ad hominem attacks and mindless rants.

    Crying censorship when you have demonstrated in the past that you clearly understand the concept and are choosing to be purposefully obtuse only serves to further undermine what little credibility you have and destroys what is left of the respect the community may have for you.

     

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  36.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 3rd, 2013 @ 4:21am

    "Corporate censorship is the process by which editors in corporate media outlets intervene to disrupt the publishing of information that portrays their business or business partners in a negative light,or intervene to prevent alternate offers from reaching public exposure."

    Wikipedia says that someone(s) does understand the meaning of the word.

     

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  37.  
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    nasch (profile), Aug 3rd, 2013 @ 6:36pm

    Re:


    Wikipedia says that someone(s) does understand the meaning of the word.


    If you think that's what the Report button is, you're delusional.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 4th, 2013 @ 4:55am

    A turnaround !!!

    Of course, if New Zealand censors hadn't been so squeamish and actually allowed the movie to play in the country, the filmmakers would actually be making money.

    So, let's get this right, You are saying the download movies deprives the filmmakers the ability to make money ???

    I actually agree with you on this fact Mr Masnick.
    I am glad you made that point clear for us all.

    "Instead, they get none of it."

     

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  39.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 4th, 2013 @ 5:03am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    so you agree with censorship of free speech as long as it's speech you don't agree with ?

    You're ok with anything you agree with though, you wont censor that.

    The majority if not all the comments censored here is because the person doing the censoring does not agree with the free speech they are reading, they seek to employ their power to censor to stifle free speech.

    Free speech rights are about ALL free speech even if you don't agree with it. Anything else, by TD standards is censorship (except when don't on TD itself).

     

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  40.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 4th, 2013 @ 5:05am

    Re: Re: Re: Re:

    I said it before, and I’ll say it again with bold text: Techdirt has no legal or moral obligation to allow you to use the comments service as a platform for your self-expression.

    Possibly not, but they most certainly have a MORAL obligation, considering it's owners stance on censorship and the stifling of free speech, and constitutional rights.

     

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  41.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 4th, 2013 @ 5:11am

    Re: Re:

    It does not count as censorship if people can still read your comments

    So in that case, this movie is also not censored, because people in New Zealand can still 'view' the movie ?

    It appears by TD standards what TD does IS CENSORSHIP, it is censorship if anyone else does it, why would it not be censorship if TD does it.

    Why acceptable for TD but not for anyone else ?

    Of all places, TD should be an example of doing it right, but it appears not to be the case.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 4th, 2013 @ 5:32am

    It's censorship because

    It's censorship to 'REPORT' comments here on TechDirt not mainly because how it is done, but because WHY it is done.

    It's done to stifle free speech, and open discussion and debate.
    Some people here are under the assumption that if everyone always agreed with the articles here, then somehow that would promote more debate and discussion and more people to this web site.

    Fact is no one wants to read every comment being in full agreement of Masnick or the author of the article.

    You think everyone agreeing would make this site better ?

    The problem is you use this ability given to you by Masnick to censor and stifle free speech, and you have take that ability to it's extreme. Using it to stifle comment you don't agree with. Using it as a power to censor. Something I feel is against Masnick's opinion of the use of censorship.

    You can play with semantics all you like, or specific legal definitions, or 'obligations' all you like. You can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig.

    So you see, you have fallen into the same trap as many people you complain about, you are given some power and you abused that power to it's greatest extent, (then you ask for more power).

    It's that abuse of the "report" button that makes you censors and abusers of censorship. It's your defence of that abuse that is distasteful, especially here on TD.

     

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  43.  
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    nasch (profile), Aug 4th, 2013 @ 7:21am

    Re: A turnaround !!!

    So, let's get this right, You are saying the download movies deprives the filmmakers the ability to make money ???

    No, he's saying not having the movie in theaters deprives them of the ability to make money.

     

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  44.  
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    nasch (profile), Aug 4th, 2013 @ 7:23am

    Re: It's censorship because

    So you see, you have fallen into the same trap as many people you complain about, you are given some power and you abused that power to it's greatest extent, (then you ask for more power).

    Don't you think you're blowing this out of proportion a bit? The comments are easily read with the click of a link. That doesn't really sound like abusing power to its greatest extent. Yes, there are some comments that shouldn't be hidden, but really I think almost all of them are off topic at best.

     

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  45.  
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    nasch (profile), Aug 4th, 2013 @ 7:24am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    I said it before, and I’ll say it again with bold text: Techdirt has no legal or moral obligation...

    Possibly not, but they most certainly have a MORAL obligation


    You're not great at reading, are you?

     

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  46.  
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    nasch (profile), Aug 4th, 2013 @ 7:26am

    Re: Re: Re:

    So in that case, this movie is also not censored, because people in New Zealand can still 'view' the movie ?

    If they could go see it in the theater by telling the ticket taker "yes, I'm really sure I want to see this movie" then that would not be censorship. In your analogy, readers would have to go to some completely different medium to read the hidden comments, which is not the case.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  47.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Aug 4th, 2013 @ 7:09pm

    Re: Re: It's censorship because

    "Don't you think you're blowing this out of proportion a bit? "

    Not at all, I don't, simply because of WHY these people choose to censor comment..

    They have said the same, 'we only 'report' comments of things we don't like. Not because of bad language, or anything else. "BECAUSE THEY DONT LIKE IT"..

    They have a power and ability to censor, they abuse that ability to stifle comment they do not agree with.

    That is the very definition of censorship. And Masnick condones and allows it.

    It's censorship by Masnicks definition, yet it's his web site that engages in it..

    This web site in controversial, it often makes statements that are not true or accurate, as such he should not try to censor people who call him out for these statements.

    If you are not willing to enter a debate on the issue, then don't start to talk about it.

    But if you do want to make untrue statements then, at least have the standing to defend your claims.

    Censoring dissenting posts, is not 'connecting with fans' or promoting debate about a subject, it becomes a DICTATOR, dictating his manifesto, and not allowing any reasoned debate or comment.

    It's censorship, and censorship of the very worst kind.

    It's also a massive embarrassment to masnick, who portrays himself as a shining light for these basic freedoms.

     

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  48.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 4th, 2013 @ 7:17pm

    Re: Re: A turnaround !!!

    no, he's actually saying that download movies does not generate any profit for the makers of the movie.

    THAT IS WHAT HE SAID.. and he's right.. we all know it is..

     

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  49.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Aug 4th, 2013 @ 7:30pm

    to have only resulted in it getting downloaded a ridiculous amount in New Zealand.

    So lots of people know about it, and are downloading it.

    if New Zealand censors hadn't been so squeamish and actually allowed the movie to play in the country, the filmmakers would actually be making money. Instead, they get none of it.

    There you have it, from Masnick, being popular and being downloaded means NO MONEY FOR THE MAKERS of the content...

    He's right, illegally downloading movies DOES NOT make profit for the makers of the movie you are stealing..

    We know masnick has made the opposite claim many times, at least now we get the truth from him..

     

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  50.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Aug 4th, 2013 @ 7:39pm

    Re: Re:

    it's censorship because the people use it to stifle free speech they do not agree with, it's how it's employed that makes it clearly censorship.

    If these people had the ability to delete the post they would start to do that for every comment they did not agree with.

    The entire issue with censorship to stifle free speech is the problem, when this site is supposed to be opposed to censorship and for free speech.. !!!

    The complete opposite to what the censors are doing here.
    That's what makes it clearly censorship.. of the worst kind too.

     

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  51.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 4th, 2013 @ 7:51pm

    Re: Re:

    "You can go into any public space, and everybody in that space can decide to ignore and refuse to listen to you"

    the thing about free speech, is the fact you can go into a public space and talk to the crown about ANYTHING, without being censored, you have a right to that speech, regardless of if you agree with it or not.

    YOU DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO TELL that person to go somewhere else so you cannot hear him.

    You have a right to go away, not a right to tell him to go away.

    This is the same thing, you don't have to read the posts, but you equally don't have the right to stop him from saying it, or telling him to say it in some way so you don't have to read it.

    That makes it the worst kind of censorship, and censorship abuse, condoned by Masnick and Techdirt, a web site that claims to uphold your constitution and be against censorship..

    So why state a fact and live a lie ?

     

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  52.  
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    Atkray (profile), Aug 4th, 2013 @ 8:12pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    No that is not what I said.

     

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  53.  
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    PaulT (profile), Aug 5th, 2013 @ 1:02am

    Oh dear, whiny lying asshole has taken over the comment thread again...

    Anyway, I just wanted to note that this is INEVITABLE. The original Maniac was banned in the UK as part of the whole video nasties debacle. That just led to it becoming a popular pirated VHS during the 80s and 90s, as did all of the films on the DPP's lists.

    Guess what? If the UK couldn't block a film's underground distribution on bulky, slow to copy VHS tapes, NZ haven't a hope in hell today. Horror fans are always seeking out new experiences and pushing at extremes. If you tell them they can't watch something, you can damn well guarantee that the movie in question will be the first thing they'll seek out next.

     

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  54.  
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    PaulT (profile), Aug 5th, 2013 @ 1:09am

    Re:

    Wow, if only you'd stop building yourself up into a masturbatory frenzy over the object of your obsession having made a "mistake", you'd realise how stupid you look.

    If you apply 2 seconds of thought, you'd realise that the reason people are not making money in NZ is NOT due to the piracy. It's because all LEGAL distribution of the title has been blocked.

    Let that settle into your thick skull for a moment. It's not the piracy that's losing money, it's the fact that there is NO way for a Kiwi to PAY MONEY for the content, so they have to go the illegal route. If they were allowed to pay for it, they would, and the market for the movie is clear. People are simply not allowed to pay for it.

    In other words, the exact opposite of what your tiny brain thinks is being said. The point is, you can't block people from seeing the film in the way they wish, so people would make more money if they were actually able to pay for it instead of being forced down the pirate route. This is 100% consistent with the points made regularly here, although admittedly you're usually too obsessed and/or stupid to understand the actual points discussed rather than the strange strawmen you tend to construct in place of reality.

     

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  55.  
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    PaulT (profile), Aug 5th, 2013 @ 1:20am

    Re: Re: Re: A turnaround !!!

    "no, he's actually saying that download movies does not generate any profit for the makers of the movie."

    Which nobody denies - at least in the direct sense. Unless you can point to a statement made by anyone here that a pirated copy makes direct revenue for the film, which would be a very strange claim (learn how to cite, an out of context quote from an unidentified source still doesn't count).

    What you idiots tend to forget is that they often do lead to indirect sales, which is why it's pointed out that "free" can actually make you money and why a pirated download does NOT equal a lost sale. People often still buy things they have pirated, and buy related merchandise, etc. A pirated copy does not mean that the person won't still go the see the movie in the cinema, or buy a DVD copy when that's available, or recommend it to friends who then go to pay for it, and so on.

    The reason this particular movie isn't making money in NZ is not because of the piracy - it's because no such legal channel exists. The censors are the ones stopping the movie from making money in NZ, not the pirates. But, you're either a liar and know that, or you're too stupid to understand the actual arguments being made.

     

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  56.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Aug 5th, 2013 @ 2:20am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: A turnaround !!!

    Nice try at justification, but it is clearly showing that a download does mean lost sales.

    It says as much, You are mistaken that these people would have not downloaded it, and gone to see it at the pictures.

    But it's an admission, that a download makes no profit for the makers, that's what Masnick said, and he is correct !

     

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  57.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 5th, 2013 @ 2:28am

    Re: Re:

    for once masnick says something that is true, and you want to argue against that stance.

    Masnick simply stated something obvious and known to everyone, I was simply amused because masnick often takes the opposite stance.

    If someone can get something for free, they will not pay for it, in this case not being available in the flicks makes little difference.

    Downloads equate to NO PROFIT for makers, that's what masnick said, I agree..

     

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  58.  
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    PaulT (profile), Aug 5th, 2013 @ 2:34am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: A turnaround !!!

    "Nice try at justification, but it is clearly showing that a download does mean lost sales."

    How? People are unable to buy it. So how is there a lost sale when no sale is allowed in the first place?

    Try stop obsessing over your fictional strawmen and address reality for once. How can a sale be lost if none is offered?

     

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  59.  
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    PaulT (profile), Aug 5th, 2013 @ 2:38am

    Re: Re: Re:

    "If someone can get something for free, they will not pay for it"

    An easily disproven lie, but go on...

    "in this case not being available in the flicks makes little difference."

    It makes no difference to sales that people are literally not allowed to pay for it through legal channels? I suppose this makes sense in that weird head of yours, but not anywhere else.

     

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  60.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Aug 5th, 2013 @ 3:41am

    Re: Re: Re: It's censorship because

    Go fuck a solar panel, darryl.

     

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  61.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Aug 5th, 2013 @ 3:52am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: A turnaround !!!

    Hey, darryl.

    Get George Orwell's "1984" removed from your public domain; you owe his corpse money! You freetard!

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  62.  
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    nasch (profile), Aug 5th, 2013 @ 7:55am

    Re: Re: Re: It's censorship because

    I get it, but calling it the very worst kind of censorship when the post is still readable is pretty ridiculous.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  63.  
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    nasch (profile), Aug 5th, 2013 @ 7:57am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: A turnaround !!!

    Can't decide if darryl or just really dumb. darryl never used to capitalize anything, did he?

     

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  64.  
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    nasch (profile), Aug 5th, 2013 @ 7:59am

    Re: Re: Re:

    This is the same thing, you don't have to read the posts, but you equally don't have the right to stop him from saying it, or telling him to say it in some way so you don't have to read it.


    It's a private website. They have the right to set it up however they want.

     

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  65.  
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    PaulT (profile), Aug 5th, 2013 @ 8:22am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: A turnaround !!!

    "Can't decide if darryl or just really dumb"

    Why not both? He's somehow managed to come up with the idea that a banned product is losing sales because of piracy. You'd have to be really dumb to make that idea work in your head. It's a familiar blindness to reality that happens whenever darryl comments, but a lot of these guys seem to lose the ability to read properly whenever that word is mentioned, so who knows who it really is?

    The irony here, of course, is that this is a situation where piracy could actually be used to increase sales. The whole point is that piracy makes any attempt at a ban totally ineffective. So, the fact that it's available could be used to convince the censors to lift the ban, rate it for adults, and allow people to pay money for the product. It might require something of a cultural change in the NZ censor office, but it's generally worked in the UK (where the film is available uncut, although the original 1980 film is still censored).

    But because "piracy" is mentioned, certain people lose the ability to think critically or even address the real arguments being made. Although I would like to see what logical contortions he would go through to explain how a product that's banned from sale is losing sales. The only logical alternative would be to import a copy from another country, but this would also be in violation of the law so he'd be a fool to try that one.

     

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  66.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Aug 5th, 2013 @ 9:04am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: @ "RD": "shut your fucking piehole"

    Grow some brains you asshole. I don't read every comment on techdirt, but whenever i read one, i find at least one post of yours containing huge amounts of idiotic gibberish.

    Techdirt isn't the one that censor your posts. It is the community that isn't as stupid and dumb as you that vote for it.
    In other words, it is not one person... It is a lot of people.

    Seriously, do the world a favor and "remove yourself from this world". You are wasting oxygen and other resources while you're on it and they would be better spent elsewhere.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  67.  
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    nasch (profile), Aug 5th, 2013 @ 9:21am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: A turnaround !!!

    You'd have to be really dumb to make that idea work in your head.

    Yes, the question is whether he's only really dumb, or if he's really dumb and also darryl.

    Although I would like to see what logical contortions he would go through to explain how a product that's banned from sale is losing sales.

    He won't. He'll just keep saying "a download makes no profit for the makers" even though that doesn't address anything being said. Because he's really dumb.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  68.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Aug 5th, 2013 @ 10:47am

    Re: Re: Re: It's censorship because

    Are you paid to be stupid? Or you do that because it is your birthright?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]


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