“That is, they claim that until they actually look at the data they’ve collected, they haven’t even triggered a 4th Amendment issue.”

Why collect it if you aren’t going to look at it. It has no value if you’re just collecting it…

I mean if something is captured while a person isn’t a suspect, it can’t just be stored to use to further incriminate them at a later date when that person becomes a suspect right?

In other words, unless it’s being illegally searched the data has no value and as such wouldn’t exist. I think the NSA has lost the ability to use the “give us the benefit of the doubt” or “we’re working in your best interest” arguements. It’s time for people to stop trying to justify the actions and realize that this isn’t right by any measure or secret interpretation of the law…

So, following NSA logic, If Eric Snowden had collected a huge pile of classified information but not handed any of it over to the Guardian, it wouldn’t technically be a leak, and therefore not prosecutable?

Schr?dinger’s download…

“Okay, so I can already hear the copyright maximalist wonks banging away at their keyboards to mention that the exclusive rights provided under copyright law include reproduction and distribution, so merely making a copy via a download could violate those two rights. And, of course, that’s how the courts have seen it. But, the point he’s making is actually quite reasonable. Yes, according to common sense and the basic definitions in English we all know, when the NSA hoovered up all the data about all of your communications, most normal people would think it’s a search. But, now that the feds are admitting that normal English doesn’t apply, and that they can hold all your data without violating any law, it seems only fair to flip that around on them. So, even if basic English says that downloading a copy likely involves potentially infringing on the reproduction right, if we just use the NSA’s dictionary, clearly, copyright holders should need to also prove that the file itself was opened. Otherwise, it’s as if nothing at all happened… “

It’s disgusting to me that you have to include such a ridiculously intricate CYA/cover-all-arguments definition of the point you are trying to make, simply due to the overweening shills and trolls that post here who WILLFULLY and INTENTIONALLY go out of their way to miss the point and principle of any article posted here, just so they can “try to get” Mike and other frequent supporters of the site.

It’s political bullshit just as bad as the garbage that goes on in our nations capitol, and it diminishes us all that is is even remotely necessary to have to do so because of people of poor character and less intelligence that insist on trying to derail every topical discussion here by trying to devolve it into “the law is the law why wont you debate me rawr bawk bawk!” infantile rhetoric.